[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia

On February 20 2014 01:47 Koshi wrote:
On the record. I like all the people in this game. except prplhz because I don't know who that is and he hasn't got a cool name.

On February 20 2014 02:06 suki wrote:
Toadesstern
prplhz <- don't know him
jaybrundage
marvellosity
CuteFluffyPuppy
sidesprang
VIVAX420 (kush)
Balla24
Koshi
raynpelikoneet
Palmar

On February 20 2014 08:57 Koshi wrote:
suki, I think balla is scum. Agree?

On February 20 2014 08:59 Koshi wrote:

Why are you not interested in seeing what I am seeing?

On February 20 2014 09:09 suki wrote:
##unvote
##vote Balla24

Can we be best buddies

On February 20 2014 09:12 suki wrote:


I thought you were seeing something so I looked and I thought I saw what you saw, but now you unvoted yourself.

Did you really see something or were you just making something up?

On February 20 2014 09:14 Koshi wrote:

Making stuff up.
I am serious because I can be.

On February 20 2014 09:17 suki wrote:
Koshi you should put your vote back on Balla.

On February 20 2014 09:19 Koshi wrote:

I really shouldn't. I know we catch Balla ezpz if he is scum anyway. No need to pressure for no reason. Unless you want to share a reason.

I think you should.

On February 20 2014 09:22 suki wrote:
Balla is completely in policy talk mode and hasn't even tried to pressure anyone or start anything even though he is clearly here. He also is not playing light hearted like in the previous game where we bulldozed scum.

On February 20 2014 09:52 suki wrote:


I think the reactions that are garnered from your stupid entry is a positive direction for town and that Balla's reaction to it specifically makes me think he is scum. As for you specifically, I think you can open this way as scum or town.

On February 21 2014 14:49 Balla24 wrote:
There is way too many people who I can't remember anything they've done. Even the high volume guys. Like rayn and marv you guys have posted a fuckton but I can't even tell who you guys are going to lynch at all, sure you've generated a lot of discussion but it's also a lot of chaos, maybe you guys thrive there...

Anyways, I think prplhz, suki are town for now.

prplhz started off from his very first post trying to start conversation, when that didn't work he tried something else. He has been very active in trying to push the thread in a positive direction and it's pretty clear that has been his goal the entire game based on how he's reacting to the thread on his returns to it:



Following that he continues to pressure people and it's pretty clear where he is going to lynch and who he thinks is scum and why. Everything is clear and transparent from him compared to plenty of other guys in this thread who are masking their activities and reasoning. He is also thinking a lot like me, especially recently with his kush and palmar pressure so that's a plus.

suki is also probably town. Even though I don't like her approach to some people like Koshi and rayn, it seems like classic suki. She's hopping around between the people she accuses, reacting to their defenses. She often does that as town whereas as scum she's a lot more rigid with her reads (granted, she only has 1 scum game and that was a while ago). You can see that in Normal Mini Mafia, shadowed (non-reboot).

+ Show Spoiler [reactional suki] +

+ Show Spoiler [Confident Scum Suki] +

(Literally just took these from a previous meta case on her which you can read here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442787&currentpage=50#982, even though the case was wrong for that game specifically, I think a lot of the points hold true)

Another thing is she's has good followups to everything and is not afraid to be engaging the town powerhouses (marv, rayn) in conversation, which I was in my first mafia game together with rayn at least. This point isn't as good without flips though.

Her lightheartedness and frustration that nobody is playing around with her in the opening of the game also feels townie to me. Her activity and pressure is good too, she's actively questioning people and creating a good town atmosphere. Her filter is getting up there which is good considering her last town game (9pages on d1). Beyond the non-questioning of rayn's motives and the weird case on koshi she feels good, and I think at least the rayn motive point is something she would ignore generally.

Kush and Toad are likely mafia I think. I'd lynch both. Everybody else is questionable...

Kush has been pretty inactive for kush first off. From what i've played with him, he always opens asking for people to start shit and calls people out immediately when their posts are useless, he didn't do any of that here and there has been plenty of useless posts, even when people are talking to him. I think his reactions to questioning and pressure are bad and I don't think he has any real reasoning for any of the reads he has given out because they look fake.





on rayn/marv:



His only scum reads are rayn and marv because their "arguments looked fake" so it's just straight up associative and has nothing to with them individually, I find it hard to believe that anybody would think that when reading them.

I would have really expected him to be on my case earlier instead of others and especially when others were on my case, the last couple of games he was. He was pressuring me into posting a fuck ton and then when I didn't he decided I was scum. He didn't even comment on me.

Toad's only scum read seems to be me. That's pretty bad... especially considering his case on me was almost solely based on early game meta, and even though I agree that my early game could possibly be interpreted as similar to my scum games, I think he was purposefully misrepresenting both what I was saying in the early game, and the context which you can see what I said about it here:



I find it weird that someone would write a meta case on what LITTLE i had in the thread at that time, especially in comparison to what everybody else was doing in regards to me which was just "wait and see". I think it's a weak attempt to try to draw attention to someone who opened pretty weakly.

I think it's annoying that he focused so heavily on the rayn subject and responding to questioning about it. May not be his fault, but even if I was in his shoes I would have attempted to get my opinions out on somebody else as well. I wasn't around so I don't know how rapid fire this stuff was going on. As soon as it ended he wrote a case on me and then nothing else. Looking forward to his contributions in the rest of the day.

Rayn, marv, CFP are all pretty questionable.
Rayn is obviously hard to read. As either alignment he is balls to the walls with content, calling out every little thing. The trend I see is generally as town rayn has a real reasoning for everything and actually follows through with his reads, whereas as scum he is just picking on every little thing to cause a shit show in the thread and he's also much more abrasive. I can't tell which one he is doing now obviously, but the 2 times he has done a "does anybody see what I'm seeing play" reads townie.

Marv is generating a LOT of content and asking plenty of good questions. But he also seems content to just sit within a shit storm and let it happen/contribute to it which is scummy. He has one instance of trying to move the thread forward during one of those shit storms (during the toad debacle) in which he suggests to move forward since we aren't going to get anything more out of it, however that was way after and was actually producing useful content. I'm referencing things like his conversation with kush.

CFP, one of those players who I was referencing who I can't remember what he's done. Even after reading his filter -_- all I remember is his line of questioning vs palmar. I'd be fine with him dying because of it. His read-through of the thread didn't really produce any good content and he hasn't done anything after that besides bitch about how . I liked his followup to my questions so that's good.


Everyone else I have commented on recently I think and are all questionable.
TLDR: would lynch kush/toad atm, suki and prplhz probably town, would be ok with CFP dying but not high on my priority list, would also be ok with oats dying because i'm always uncomfortable with oats but nothing sticks compared to the norm.

On February 08 2014 14:37 Balla24 wrote:
Okeydokeyroleypoleyoley, this game is moving along much better than last game IMO. There are more townie people, less questionable people. Obviously this is good. So let's get to it.

The probable mafia for me today are Jonnylaw and Alakaslam. Unfortunately they are both relatively lurky, thus hard to read. However this is in direct contrast to the previous game where they were both spammy and somewhat active for a period during every section of day 1.

Alakaslam has so little content. I get the impression that he doesn't really know what to talk about in this game. I've expected to see a lot of posts on the verge of being spammy when he is here, related to what he is reading at the current moment. He started to do that earlier but didn't really follow through. The things he HAS chosen to talk about are just not helpful to town:



This is his first post. The first thing he decides to talk about is the change in suki and I's play. Mind you, I buckled down pretty quickly and got to business within the first 2 pages of the thread and this post is coming today LONG after everything has settled and there is plenty of real content to talk about. I don't understand the reasoning behind this post. What conclusion is he trying to draw? I don't see any attempt to draw a conclusion about our alignment. He leaves it open-ended for us to guess at what he's trying to get at. As if he wanted us to look back at it and say "Wow! These two really were trolly! That must mean they are scum. There had already been discussion on suki about it too.

Same thing here, I don't understand the intent:
+ Show Spoiler +

On his second return to the thread, he becomes more Alakaslam like. Starts posting inquiries on what he is currently reading. This is good. However it abruptly ends before he even gets to anywhere good within the thread, with him posting some self-meta analysis that he posted last game. I would have expected some conclusions from his read through. Does my vote that he commented on make me scummy? Is suki trolling more scummy? There are no conclusions. Slam makes conclusions regardless of how far-fetched they are. Is JB scummy for suggesting that he will policy lurkers and not having his vote on you? These are the questions I would expect him to be asking himself and posting the conclusions to. Instead he just makes broad statements and questions about the posts he finds interesting. The posts I am referencing are in the spoilers below, but it's basically just the rest of his posts.

+ Show Spoiler [The rest of slams posts] +

One more thing:



First off, I don't recall Jaybrundage calling out me and suki for trolling and stuff. Maybe he's talking about Jonnylaw? Regardless of who it is, this is a strange statement because that's literally all he's done himself, and if he's calling JB scummy for that then that's pretty sketchy...

Moving on, Jonnylaw. I feel bad here because of his drunk posting last night and how I said I wanted to ignore it while waiting for Jonny to come back and tell me if they were serious or not. But it's been a while now... his activity level is making me very wary(did I use the right word?) on top of all the other stuff I've already posted about.

So actually, mid-writing this I decide I don't really have anything more to say about Jonny. I'd appreciate if he would try again to refute the points I brought up against him last night, because all drunk jonny did was mis-interpret what I was saying and ignore other stuff then call me scum for my filter which has still not been followed up on. Actually he also did this while he was sober too:



It's actually giving me flashbacks to Normal Mini Mafia 1 vibes where I was scum and I was called scum early by multiple people because of my activity, and unfortunately I wasn't able to re-establish myself in the thread like I would have liked. I'm not sure if that's what's happening here obviously until Jonny gives me some sense that this is not what's happening. Another thing that makes me feel worse about him is that when we are both town, we tend to work very well together, regardless of how clashy our personalities are. We're not working well together. I don't know who he thinks is scum, all I know is he read my filter and thought it smelled bad. Maybe that will change.

The townies

Suki, Aquanim, Hopeless1der all seem to be pushing pro-town things.

Hopeless1der's game is much much different than last and i'm not getting any super bad vibes from him. The things he is doing he seems to have reason for it and anything that is unexplained he seems to have a followup and explanation for it. The things that stuck out to me last game are not apparent here. He is not content to sit around and talk about early game shennanigans, he is not super afk lurky like last time.

Here's where I get the impression he doesn't want to be talking about policy, whereas like I made the case on last game, he is content to do so as scum:



Then there are multiple points where I feel he is asking the right questions, these are things that I want to ask too and there seems to be reasoning behind them.
+ Show Spoiler +



Here is an example of where he follows up on something. This was in reference to me asking him about his read on oats, sure it took a little for me to get it out of him but he got it out quickly in response to me. There's logical thinking here, and the desire to learn oats' alignment (and mine, in a previous post).

The trolliness you guys can see on your own in his filter, I think that is more of a town trait for hopeless.

Aquanim is more of the same. He has a natural inquisitive nature that I think is clear in his posting. He's trying to learn people's alignments. A lot of the questions he's asking are questions I would have asked myself, though there are also a lot of easy questions that have obvious answers as well. He's also trying to bring new information to the thread.

+ Show Spoiler +

In the first quote is an example of something he does a lot: where he clearly thinks suki is scummy with his followup case on her, so he wants to force her to take a stance on the other possible other people he may or may not think are scummy for obvious reasons. He does this multiple times towards multiple people. The other two are examples of good questions that are attempting to learn more about the person and understand their alignment. Even though the last one is an easy question, it's something that Oats really has to address because it's just a weird thing to say. Everything seems to indicate that Aquanim is very curious, attempting to learn everybody's alignment.

I said earlier that his attempts at starting conversation seemed awkward and he wasn't really getting that done. That's changed drastically and I think he's really getting what he wants from the thread now.

The main thing for Suki is that, while I didn't like her initial cases on people. She defends them as if she really thought what she was saying was true. The koshi case was pretty bad, but she never really backed down from it. The jaybrundage meta case was unexplained, but she followed up with a great case on what she saw. The sidesprang case is one of the few where she does somewhat backdown:



But the way she does it is humble, she doesn't try to stick up for it at all when she realizes how off it is, and actually gives reasoning why it was bad. In contrast, if you remember Koshi's case from last game, when he realized it was bad it was more like "shit yeah this was bad sorry guys peace!" trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'm probably one of the few, but I think that suki's trolling and roleplaying and all that is actually more indicative of a town player. They are more likely to be happy and care-free and attempt to have fun. Now i'm not saying this couldn't come from a scum player who is good at the game (like suki is), but I believe a scum player would be much more serious in attempting to fit in right away with the town, trying to scum hunt, trying to be pro-town etc.

Beyond that I see real attempts at trying to figure out other's alignments, and a curiosity, almost more fierce then anybody else in this game. She has 7 pages of filter already for crying out loud. It's reminiscent of a town koshi, town rayn type player.

Questionables

Everybody else is rather questionable.

I'm getting tired of sidesprang's dissapearing acts. He does this way too much. From the little he has posted he leans town-null. He wants to dispell attacks on him. Hes sharing his opinions on people more freely then last game. It's good.

Lonemeow is playing similar to last game, where I thought he was scum, but he was town... sooooo...... we'll see about him. He posted a lot today, which is good in comparison to last game and the games i've read of him. That means he is somewhat motivated to play this game. We've seen him shut down in a scum game, and he's expressed his hatred for playing scum, so that bodes well for him.

Jaybrundage started off bad pretty bad and since then he hasn't been amazing, but when he explained what was going through his head at the time of the shitstorm in the beginning, it kind of makes sense from a town perspective like others were saying. Lots of OMGUS which is annoying, but maybe it's because all the scum are picking on him so he can't even get anything else out before he is attacked again. And in all seriousness, he isn't actually thinking like me at all. So we'll see what that means at the end I guess lol.

Finally....

##vote Jonnylaw

On February 20 2014 11:00 suki wrote:


Here's how I see it. Because you're forced to vote someone, you can't unvote and remain without an opinion (well, except with this stupid plan). This is pro-town. If someone voted Koshi and said, 'I don't think Koshi is scum anymore' but kept his vote on Koshi, then pressuring that person to take a stance on someone else IS pro-town because they can't just unvote and say 'I dont know I'm thinking'.

It forces accountability, and mafia hate being accountable for their actions. This outweighs scum possibly misrepresenting someone because they didn't take off their vote.

On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:


1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit".
2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20.
3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread.
4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice.

Here is my first real scumread.