EPT[M][N] Default Suspicions Mafia
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 02:06 suki wrote: Toadesstern prplhz <- don't know him jaybrundage marvellosity CuteFluffyPuppy sidesprang VIVAX420 (kush) Balla24 Koshi raynpelikoneet Palmar :3 | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 08:36 Balla24 wrote: What's the benefit of claiming green? I've seen it in a lot of old games and i've always been curious. First townread of the day. Hello everyone. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 08:40 prplhz wrote: it's because that while townies mostly ignore it, it turns out that there's like a 90% chance that the first guy who asks why someone else is claiming green is scum that's you it's called the kenpachi strategy and it's fool proof First scumread of the day too! The Kenpachi method only works if the person questioning it actually tries to paint the original poster as scum. Balla asked it in a curious way rather than look for an opening. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 08:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: The quoted below is in addition to votes cast on D1 correct? ##vote: raynpelikoneet I have a plan and i am not sure if this is the best plan because i have not thought it through from every angle yet but does anyone know what i am doing? I think I know what you're doing. It seems sensible. ##vote CuteFluffyPuppy | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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On February 20 2014 08:57 Toadesstern wrote: sounds good to me, I like this ##vote: raynpelikoneet Why do you think Rayn voted for himself? | ||
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I actually thought it was for instant majority purposes first, because your vote will be on the player you voted last after the lynch and night kills. Then I realized it's not an IM game. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 09:35 Palmar wrote: I agree with what prplhz is saying, and to the extend that I don't understand why people care where votes are parked. It's completely irrelevant, there is no pressure in a vote that isn't being actively pushed as a lynch target. No one cares. I have no idea why rayn seems to think we need a plan to address that non-problem. It's an extremely bad opening discussion point and serves no purpose. Do you think Rayn is scum for it? You're saying it's pointless and you have no idea why he's talking about it, yet you continue to talk about it without asking any questions or having any follow up in your post. Everything you've said has already been said too. What is this post meant to accomplish? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 09:39 Palmar wrote: The important part here is why rayn created the plan. If he's town I see two options, he either thought it was a good controversial move to start discussion, or he actually believes idle shitvotes randomly assigned by the host actually mean something. If he's scum, it's a fantastic way of saying things without actually contributing anything to the game. I also don't know why his first post didn't simply lay out his plan, but instead left it up to guesswork by the rest of us. But I don't know if that says anything about his alignment. So basically he could be town or scum for it and all you've done is waffle things that have either already been posted or could be extrapolated within a second. On February 20 2014 09:40 Palmar wrote: I don't know if he's scum because of it. We have plenty of time to figure it out. I was basically explaining where I stand. But your post said nothing prplhz hasn't already said. You've given your thoughts on this and your conclusion was that it's a null tell, or you haven't followed up on it with any questions geared towards Rayn. Why did you feel the need to address this from all the things in the thread when you both consider it useless and don't come to a conclusion from it? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 09:46 Palmar wrote: I haven't actually waffled, I simply haven't made a decision. You have pointed out something that had already been pointed out and didn't conclude anything alignment indicative from it, nor did you attempt to inquire further into Rayn until I and Rayn called you out on it. On February 20 2014 09:43 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: But your post said nothing prplhz hasn't already said. You've given your thoughts on this and your conclusion was that it's a null tell, or you haven't followed up on it with any questions geared towards Rayn. Why did you feel the need to address this from all the things in the thread when you both consider it useless and don't come to a conclusion from it? I don't think you can reach a conclusion from it. On it's own it's not enough to say he's scum. That doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from talking about it. Also I don't think what we're discussing now is useless. I think the plan itself was useless, but discussing the thought process that made rayn come up with the plan is extremely useful. [/QUOTE] Do you think it makes him more likely to be scum, then? I'm not getting anything out of this discourse other than a scumread on you. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 09:52 Palmar wrote: Do you think it makes him more likely to be scum, then? I'm not getting anything out of this discourse other than a scumread on you. Why are you trying to pressure me into making a call? I have plenty of time to decide whether or not rayn is scum... [/QUOTE] Why am I pressuring a scumread? Gee, I wonder. Is that a serious question? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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I saw no point in your initial comments, and with a lack of a follow up to continue on them I saw them as fluff as they added nothing new to the table. You have given potential scenarios rather than ask Rayn to explain himself, so if your intention was to read him, it seems like a horrendous way of approaching it. Therefore since you already have a read I'd like to hear it so that it may make my read on you more accurate. I'm more interested in hearing thoughts from you rather than Rayn right now. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 10:03 Palmar wrote: Even rayn would tell you (and notice how he responded specifically to me) that it matters where people stand. I wanted to say I agreed with prplhz on his point about rayn's plan. That's about it. So why didn't you leave it at a simple +1? The additions were fairly redundant. It made the post appear bigger than the content was, which has scum motivation. On February 20 2014 09:58 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:You have given potential scenarios rather than ask Rayn to explain himself, so if your intention was to read him, it seems like a horrendous way of approaching it. On February 20 2014 09:42 Palmar wrote: How about you explain your idea yourself? I mean I posted the two options I saw, but you can probably elaborate better than I on your intentions. Seems to me I did exactly what you're accusing me of not having done.[/quote] My problem with this is that you did it 1. After I pressured you and 2. after you already presented him with scenario's to showcase what you're thinking, making it easier for him to adapt. If your intention was to get a read on him, why didn't you ask those questions immediately? The way it went down, it looks more like a convenient opportunity/necessity than actually trying to get a read. On February 20 2014 09:58 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Therefore since you already have a read I'd like to hear it so that it may make my read on you more accurate. I'm more interested in hearing thoughts from you rather than Rayn right now. I don't. I don't think I have nearly enough information to make a call, hence why I'm baffled why you're trying to force me to make a decision, it makes no sense for me to throw out a random conclusion when I haven't reached one.[/QUOTE] See above. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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On February 20 2014 10:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: My problem is that there are now at least 4 people who have no interest in thinking of my motives behind my posts. I'll make a clarification after marv posts anyways, but there is something i want out of marv first. I'll explain that too after. I thought you had already made your intentions clear and thought the votes worked in a different light than they did. Is there more to it than that? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 10:12 marvellosity wrote: Smurf, you're fucking annoying already. That's what I've taken out of this thread so far. This wounds me. On February 20 2014 10:13 Palmar wrote: @Smurf can you please stop breaking posts, it's really annoying to reply to you when you constantly do. I'll try to be more careful. Rayn, are you saying you've still got a plan in motion or are you talking about the motivation behind your original plan? Because I'm pretty stumped. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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On February 20 2014 10:18 marvellosity wrote: The point of that being that Palmar will talk about things like you've been constantly attacking him for talking about things. And it doesn't mean very much. That's just how he talks about stuff. I'll have to take your word on it. I find it unlikely you'd lie about this regardless of your alignment. I like the point against Toad. Rayn's plan is really not all that useful with the current setup, but it's not that relevant given how Toad responded to it. In regards to prplhz, I find it more likely that he's actually trying to start the game. From my giant sample size of one scumgame and one towngame, he seems to be more carefree and active as town than as scum, whereas he tries to avoid the limelight as scum. The Koshi exit post got me interested in him as it didn't say anything and I didn't remember anything he said from before that. First he says On February 20 2014 09:10 Koshi wrote: ##vote Koshi I am ok with rayn his idea. + Show Spoiler + I am not seeing anything around balla. Then, 7 minutes later.. On February 20 2014 09:17 Koshi wrote: rayn, do you see any suspicious people or are you too busy with the thing with the standard votes that I don't understand. He doesn't understand the idea yet he agrees to it. Why would he not inquire as to the idea or think about it if he's okay with it? It doesn't make any sense. He continues on trolling despite there being a plan on the table that he supports yet doesn't understand. What. Further Toad/Rayn stuff doesn't really give me anything. Marv's initial case makes a good point, but I need more. Don't see what Rayn sees in Suki either. Actually have to go now. Will be back later today and finish catching up then. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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Pg 16-18: On February 20 2014 11:33 prplhz wrote: I still think that raynpelikoneet's plan is completely useless and no townie has any reason to come up with or push it. I also agree with marvellosity that it doesn't make sense that scum would hard push a silly slightly scummy plan in thread like this. I don't like that suki says in this post: that the plan is stupid but neither scummy nor townie and then she says in this post that the plan is anti-town, or something like that, she uses pro-town to describe a situation where the plan is not implemented. I don't understand the first part of this post. There's two observations that are contradictory. On one hand it's completely useless and town would never do it, on the other hand scum would never hard push it. What's also strange is that he accuses suki of a similar thing in the very same post. It's actually so blatantly contradictory that I think he's town for it. I think scum would be more likely to construct themselves properly in this scenario. Rayn pointed out the same thing, but has a different conclusion from it. I actually think it's more likely to come from town. On February 20 2014 13:22 Balla24 wrote: Why is the fact that he misused said method scummy? Why did your 1st scumread get no pressure after this even though there was plenty said and he even did a few things. Also why is me being curious->townie? That doesn't really make sense considering if it's genuine curiousness why wouldn't I ask the same question as scum? Because scum wants to call people that aren't scum scum. I've used the same method myself. Making something out of nothing is what scum have to do, whereas town has little motivation for it. As for why he got no pressure; it's because I found Palmar more interesting by the time I got back, so I pursued that instead. I also came around on Prplhz simply for the amount of attention he was drawing to himself, which I find atypical of his scum game, though that's based on a small sample. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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On February 20 2014 16:45 sidesprang wrote: ##Vote Balla24 wut. On February 20 2014 17:36 Palmar wrote: I don't see the contradiction. There is no reason for any townie to do various strange things, yet they do it all the time and we even clear the for it. (it: this is so dumb he has to be town). I like that Palmar sees the same thing I do in this. Liking Palmar in general since the start as he's making sense and doesn't appear to be pushing a scum agenda. I don't like that Koshi can't give a reason for Toad being scum when asked. On February 20 2014 20:22 Koshi wrote: Because marv looked town to me. I don't know. That's why it is called sheeping. It's got that too scummy to be scum feel, but I think a player like Koshi is aware of how it would be read. He admitted to having no clue why the player he's been considering to lynch is scum. Why were you considering him for lynch, then? Later, he said he just sheeped marv's reasoning, but why not give that reasoning when questioned? It makes me believe he's intentionally trying to show bravado. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
Koshi's posts feel like they don't come from much effort in this phase of the game. His reads seem to be jokes or at least very poorly thought out. On February 20 2014 20:33 Koshi wrote: Not lynchable. I'll say Kush not a lynch target atm because pretty smart play, like instantly going against rayn on prplhz and other people actually saw same things. Also rayn cuz we are buds. marv cuz marv. Palmar I guess. lynchable People marv feels strongly about being scum. People rayn feels strongly about being scum & he made a case with multiple points on. Those are mostly actually scum.[/ sidesprang if he doesn't play. suki and Balla if they plan on playing "the I am so impressed by this playerpool and I won't post my own thoughts" game. As I feel that might be happening. Oats because jayB replaced out cuz he rolled scum. The other people I didn't pay too much attention to. It appears Koshi is going for the bravado award this game. The only thoughts we can really gain from this is a mild pressure on suki and balla. This entire post feels like it's only trying to achieve scum objectives. It doesn't showcase much own thought process. He calls people everyone that thread sentiment feels are town town, and his scumreads are a joke other than Balla and Suki, which is the only piece of interest in this post. "Look at me! I'm so bold to state I don't have any of my own reads right now!" Really do not like. @Rayn You mentioned that there was something that made you believe Kush didn't read the thread. I remember you having mentioned something like this before elsewhere, but I was curious as to the reference to its alignment because I seem to recall Kush not reading a game where he rolled town. ##Unvote ##Vote Koshi | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 20 2014 22:51 Toadesstern wrote: You asked me about my reasoning earlier on. The first part is talking about my stance on you and how I got to that stance from my PoV before you did this post: + Show Spoiler + On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad): There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are: 1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate. However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at. 2) I did the same pro-town thing as mafia. 3) I just made all this up and and i was just saying shit for no reason at the start of the game. Now here is my question, especially to prplhz, Toad, Palmar and suki; Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why. If what i was doing was (1), then i am town. If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment. If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly. So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad? The second part you're quoting is explaining how I realized that your explanation (the above post) makes sense if we take the misunderstanding as a given, which I did not consider before you cleared it up simply because I did not have that same misunderstanding. Toad's explanation regarding the Rayn plan has left me with more question marks than anything. His initial comment doesn't specify anything about how it's about his reads without the explanation, especially since he referred to the comment as "can't be #1" which indicates he read the actual arguments, yet it's supposedly about his explanation as to why he thought Rayn was scum. It feels to me like a reason he thought of after the events. Not going to push it as per marv's proposal. On February 20 2014 23:09 marvellosity wrote: no, it's exactly the kind of thing Koshi would do as town more than mafia, he'd be more careful as mafia. Don't you think Koshi would know how you're likely to respond to this? It's fairly clear to anyone reading games that carelessness is seen as town. With someone as forthcoming with their thoughts as Koshi usually is, I don't find it unlikely at all. It's an easy way to look town without putting much effort in the game, and Koshi abhors playing scum. On February 21 2014 08:14 suki wrote: CuteFluffyPuppy, why do you think this 'bravado' line of action is more likely to come from scum Koshi than town Koshi? What scum objectives do you perceive Koshi having in his posts? Because Koshi does not like playing scum. The way he's playing is the laziest way to still get read as town. I think a town Koshi would take the opportunity to do a more thorough read and get a good read on some players. He hasn't really tried. Koshi's objective is to get read as town with the least amount of effort. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
Suki suspects Koshi for the same things I do. Makes me feel good about her. I disagree with the talk around it as it's the way Koshi represents himself that is so conscious that I feel it has to be intentional. He's aware of how the posts he makes will be read and thus posts them as such. The pretending of Koshi to have a serious reason to vote Balla does seem town to me though. There was an active intent to try and get a read on Suki using a plan. Thinking about that I'm coming around to Koshi. The times I've ever seen scum fake making a trap and then springing it have been very rare, and this was an on the fly thing. ##Unvote ##Vote CuteFluffyPuppy Not sure what to think right now. | ||
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Marv changes his read on me on the fly after a few small remarks by Oatsmaster. I don't understand this at all. When first questioned about me, Marv says: On February 21 2014 00:54 marvellosity wrote: I think he was wrong to be pushing it but I think it didn't look too bad overall. Oats replies On February 21 2014 00:59 Oatsmaster wrote: It felt to me like he made a decision on Palmar way too early based off like 1-2 posts then he kept pressing and pressing, he wasnt satisfied with any reasonable answer about Palmar not having a read on rayn, he really wanted that read on Rayn. And there was literally no conclusion, Smurf just gave up or something? and moved on to other things without ever posting a final read or a vote. Too contrived and forced=scummy. On February 21 2014 01:00 marvellosity wrote: yeah it was kinda odd that he was desperate for that read on rayn, you're right. I don't know how much I make of it though. To me, this shows Marv isn't reading properly because he would've noticed this the first time around if he were. Instead, he was happy to sheep Palmar at the time and presumed what he said was right. On February 20 2014 20:17 Palmar wrote: I need to see more from the smurf to make a decision on him, but at least the pressure he put on me last night was genuine if a bit stupid. I like the fact he just dropped it when it was clear he wasn't getting anywhere with it, it feels very much town-like to just back off like that. On February 20 2014 20:21 marvellosity wrote: Agree with you on kush+Smurf as it stands. So he's already consciously thought about my actions and confirmed that he agreed with Palmar, yet all of a sudden he changes his read by a mere mention from Oats in a different direction? Feels off. On February 21 2014 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's wrong in suki's case is that she says basically same stuff me, Palmar and prplhz talked about earlier. She is not interested in why we do not think that makes Koshi scummy, instead she makes a case where she already knows the stuff she is going to say is "right", it's a safe case because it's already agreed on before it's even posted. But in the end she expresses the thought "i know my case might not be good enough so i'll vote for Toad later on if you guys want to". I don't see the "this is why Koshi is mafia" type of thing. I see "here is a safe contribution". That's my interpretation of that post. I'm sensing that same thing I had when I misread a scum player for having the same thought process as me as town might be happening with Suki. However, you did mention why you didn't vote for Koshi yourself. On February 20 2014 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah that was just an observation atm. Which indicated that you do think it's scummy to me, but not enough to vote for him at this point or expect him to change his mind, so I wouldn't rag on Suki too much for that. Rest of the case is solid. Sidenote: I feel like the major point in Koshi's favour has been underrepresented though, which was his attempt to get Suki to get serious on her vote on Balla. Toad's metacase will be handled in next post. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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The meta toad brought up for Balla isn't really that great as the most recent towngame Balla has played was that of Shadow Mini Mafia. I feel like Balla can be read a lot on filter length alone. His town filters are miles ahead of his scum filters in terms of length. I doubt he can replicate that. One point in Toad's favour though is how Balla tends to feel slighted as scum. On January 26 2014 10:47 Balla24 wrote: better than you generically calling people out every couple posts.... He's not denying that he made a poor post, but rather takes the offensive. He's done a similar thing this game. On February 20 2014 09:10 Balla24 wrote: The way I see it is these starting votes dont matter at all and by the time we actually start playing the game it still won't matter. Koshi lets start something gogo~ On February 20 2014 09:25 Balla24 wrote: So is everybody else, only person that is trying to start stuff is prplhz. I don't see anything else that is pressurable like I have in the past 2 games. He didn't do anything of the like in Shadow Mini Mafia. The case Balla made on Suki is mostly sheeping too. Doesn't give me much to work with. Palmar and Marv, you said you don't believe Toad's case. With that, do you mean that you don't believe it's a good case or you don't believe that Toad believes in his case? Point against Kush is fair. Contradictory, and far enough away for Kush to have forgotten about making his initial posts if he were scum. Toad's sheer effort makes me feel townish on him because I'm not used to him being this active in general. Someone tell me if this is dumb. | ||
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On February 21 2014 09:27 marvellosity wrote: Where did I change my read on you Smurf? It's been pretty consistent. Further it's nothing to do with not reading properly - I said it was kinda odd and it was kinda odd, but I didn't make anything of it. For obvious reasons I don't think or talk about stuff that I don't make much of. Is everyone stupid or something? I presumed you found it odd in a scummish fashion given Oats brought it up as a thing he thought I was scummy for. As you agreed with him on it being odd, I figured you found me questionable/scummy for it as a result. | ||
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On February 21 2014 06:22 suki wrote: I disagree. I think Koshi's townreads were a lot less random last game. I don't see him randomly calling people bad this game. And he lead the lynch on Jonny so I don't know what you're talking about sheeping. The reason I'm leaning town on Koshi right now is because of this: When I read this I thought, Koshi is playing quite freely right now. It makes sense to view his careless townreads and active sheeping as a free townie than a scum trying to appear free. I'm curious why you thought Koshi looked scummy for it the first time. I know my own reason and I'm curious if they coincide. On February 21 2014 06:39 Balla24 wrote: What about me being curious -> townie? You gave an easy townread for me just asking a simple question. Town wants to know why someone does something. Scum wants to call someone scum. You went for the former approach rather than seize an easy opportunity to call someone scum over it. On February 21 2014 06:48 suki wrote: Here's what I said The fact that he's not analyzing and not pressuring people I still think is true. Calling people scum or town randomly and saying he's going to sheep, I now think is more townie on koshi, so my read here changed. I see now that you were saying the same thing where I said 'I disagree', but I don't think this game resembles last game the way you're making it out to be. But my case was shit so the end result is I agree with you and marv that Koshi looks townie for his play thus far. You still think he's not analyzing and pressuring people, but you think he looks townie for his play? Can you explain this to me? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
I have no idea how to read Kush. Pls help. He never explains any of his reads as either alignment so I'm at a loss. I'm feeling town on Balla right now. He's pressuring people for his own reasons rather than sheeping town sentiment. When Suki put words in his mouth, he corrected her in a way that makes me feel he's confident in why he believes the things he believes. On February 21 2014 08:41 marvellosity wrote: It's extremely difficult to look "naturally" careless. I've played more scumgames than anyone else on TL Mafia and I have an exceptional record and I can't really do it. You have different standards though. For a player like Kush, it'll be easy to look naturally careless. Everything is always relative. On February 21 2014 08:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay this answer is scum. marv is mafia. ##unvote #vote: marvellosoty OH GOD THIS IS SO GOOD! Why would you go afk after this? Rayn please. | ||
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I'd like to hear which posts by Suki make you feel she's clearly town. As for Kush, I remember him asking a host in a game before participating if he would be allowed to play with one post a day. He's also had large filters as scum before. Activity is not a scumtell for Kush. I think the strongest thing that makes Kush scum is the contradiction on what Marv saw earlier. Happy with the Toad case. Could lynch for sure. Oats looks awful as well. He always does but he looks extra awful this game. On February 21 2014 17:46 Koshi wrote: CuteFluffyPuppy: this might be very coincidental but when I got heat he suddenly was on pages on which I was scummy and he said so, and then when marv got his little bit of heat CFP just had a quote in which he found marv scummy. I guess this guy needs to be read in his filter. Because reading him in the thread is just dumb because he is not following the flow. Which is actually scummy because the only person I remember doing this like this was BH as a smurf. And he was scum. I'm actually doing what Promethelax did in the original Shadow game because I felt it was a good method to catch up and show your reads as you develop them. Basically catching up for discussion I missed. It hasn't actually got me many scumreads to work with, but if it provides my thought processes and allows me to process the thread better, it's already worth it. On February 21 2014 19:41 Palmar wrote: Btw this is the most boring smurf I've ever seen. Goddamnit smurf. Sorry to disappoint  Don't like Toad's return into the thread. He said he was going to check out Shadow game, yet he responds to my post and drops his Balla read. On February 21 2014 20:40 marvellosity wrote: ok, just carrying on looking through Smurf's filter. The biggest problem I have at the end of it is that after all his catchup posts he actually has no conclusions about anything, at all. I have no real idea what Smurf thinks about anything. That's because I didn't really have any scumreads at the end. Strongest suspicion was on Suki. Currently it's on Toad. Too many scummy things, something that happened in Shadow as well yet everyone decided to not lynch him for it. The contradiction and his focus on defending himself, calling you a liar but not scum, all counts in for it. ##Unvote ##Vote Toadesstern | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 21 2014 23:31 Koshi wrote: CuteFluffyPuppy ARE YOU THE STRAY KITTEN??? It is a mystery. | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:34 marvellosity wrote: CuteFluffyPuppy - could you tell me in what way Oats looks particularly bad this game compared to normal please? He just seems to be going off anything in the thread. His suspicion on Balla was out of nowhere. Doesn't care about his initial scumreads of which Balla wasn't one of then votes Balla for one post which he doesn't explain despite having harped on about why I'm scum for quite a few posts and instantly drops it once it doesn't gain any traction. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
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I thought suki and Toad were suspicious, but I didn't have a strong inclination at the time which was why my vote was on myself. Is that so strange? | ||
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On February 21 2014 23:59 marvellosity wrote: what isn't? A massive catchup followed by no-one he wanted to vote for except he apparently did have suspicions. You said yourself that we should give the Toad thing a rest and I agreed. I asked Suki a few questions after as well, but those didn't end up leading anywhere. | ||
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On February 22 2014 00:09 marvellosity wrote: Anyway, in short, Oats attacked Palmar earlier for not checking Oats' meta and seeing that Oats plays scummier as town Now Oats says he looks better and so smurf is mafia for trying to lynch him, when surely if Oats looks better he's more likely to be mafia, according to his own self-description of meta If Oats actually looks scummier as town then I'd find it more likely he's town here. However, the fact that he brought up this meta himself and then proceeds to call my read bad when he has said he's basically playing to his scum meta is pretty damning. | ||
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On February 22 2014 00:13 marvellosity wrote: I want him to come back and defend himself/shout at me. Will be v disappointed if that's his one post -> afk Speaking of people coming back, I'm still waiting for Rayn to come back and explain his vote on you as well as if he thinks Kush only doesn't read the thread as a certain alignment. | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:25 marvellosity wrote: PYP: LoL Another theme game, bleh. Any normal games? | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:29 suki wrote: CuteFluffyPuppy I liked your play early. I think your posts had good direction to them and you were constantly trying to figure the game out. I was a bit iffy on you for your catch-up posts primarily because it lets you be disconnected from the current state of the game. Looking more closely now, I'm wondering why you think I'm scummy when early on it seemed you were leaning town on me. I am leaning to you being town, especially if you're LoneMeow since it seems like LM's play style. What is your current read on me and why? I was leaning town on you due to the way they felt free and how your suspicions seemed to follow mine. It changed when my read on Koshi changed because it changed the way I looked at the game. After that, I found that you often sheeped town sentiment, like going after Koshi when he was a popular target, and going after Balla in the start when Koshi claimed to have a reason for it. This changed again when rereading and the game progressing as you've been scumhunting through most of the game. Accusing Palmar for instance is something I wouldn't expect you to do as scum, and your thought process aligned with plprhz on whom I have a strong townread, which is another point in your favour, so right now I'm leaning town. On February 21 2014 07:10 suki wrote: kush is generally pretty ... random.. and I usually like him. I'll take a look at his previous games based on your read here and see how I feel about him after. This was the last time you mentioned a read on Kush. Did you go back and find anything? | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:37 Oatsmaster wrote: why would I play different in a themed game that only has different night actions than a normal game? ? ? ? ? totally aqua man Because there's far more policy/setup talk in themed games than normal games, so trends in your gameplay won't be as easily translated. | ||
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On February 22 2014 01:32 marvellosity wrote: he is not LoneMeow. Do you know who I am yet? On February 22 2014 01:41 Oatsmaster wrote: I havent rolled scum in a normal game in forever I'll just have to check for differences with your town games then. Will do later. | ||
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On February 22 2014 02:12 Oatsmaster wrote: What do you think of smurf being so super sure that palmar is town? Like if palmar is scum then this point is totally moot but smurf never mentions palmar at all which is interesting considering his read is so strong. I actually didn't even think of Palmar potentially being scum for some reason. Haven't had a reason to doubt my read on him in a while so it came naturally. On February 22 2014 02:32 marvellosity wrote: The curious thing about Smurf is that he seems to have some familiarity with your play and yet no familiarity with Palmar's. hmmmm. I have played one game with Palmar quite a while ago that I really can't recall much of other than that it went crazy pretty quickly. I correctly read him as town that game though. I never noticed the stylistic thing you mentioned, or it didn't appear on my radar that time. | ||
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You also mentioned something about Kush not reading the thread before but didn't specify if it was alignment indicative. + Show Spoiler + On February 20 2014 22:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is one thing that makes me think kush is not really reading properly. On February 20 2014 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's this post and the conversation that took place after that: Does it look like kush really cares about his question? Because the bolded part is an answer to his question. I'm also tired of changing my read on Suki, rayn. Please stop making me think. As for Toad, it feels like he just gave up. He didn't rage like in his town game about people shitting on him for no reason, he just gave up. Feels like a scum lynch to me. | ||
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On February 22 2014 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i have seen his scum games. I have also lynched him on D1 and D2 in those games. Filter length on LXIV and Normal Mini Mafia (scum) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/74TDr.png) ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/74TEe.png) Filter length this game: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/74TF5.png) It's twice as long and we're not even done with D1 yet. Dude is town. | ||
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On February 22 2014 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am interested Fluffer. You have read those games i assume as you brought that up. Why do you not know this? Because my memory is full of holes. I remember things as they're brought up. You playing in the game was not something I thought about. | ||
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On February 22 2014 05:57 marvellosity wrote: Which, for the uninitiated, was throw a massive bitchfit and then hard-defend mafia till the end of the cycle as a result of the bitchfit. Was this thing mentioned as a big deal in the game? If so, do you think it's likely scumrayn would actually do that again? | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:00 marvellosity wrote: town Balla Oh, I figured you meant he was scum for it. Ignore previous post. | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:13 prplhz wrote: this thread is no fun right now No argument there. Wanna play tic tac toe? | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not true for either of the games. But it doesn't matter, go ahead and lynch Toad. TELL US WHY YOU THINK TOAD IS TOWN | ||
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If you're actually town then put in an effort to convince us. The only thing you've given is a vague comment about how it doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective without any further argumentation. | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: There are two people who can easily lynch Toad. Me and marv. Let's says we are town and Toad is mafia. He attacks me, last time he attacked me for stupid shit i got him lynched regardless of his cop claim. Does his argument against marv look like he is just arguing with him for the sake of arguing? Well to me it does not. To me it looks like he genuinely believes marv is lying or misrepresenting him or whatever. Game starts, Toad's scumplan: "Let's attack people who are most likely gonna lynch me for it!" Yes, makes sense! Toad doesn't strike me as the type to plan far ahead. I don't think he thought about that post and said "I think it's a great idea to attack Marv here because of X and Y". He saw something he thought he could attack and attacked it. Toad is an impulsive player, I wouldn't be surprised if he happened to think it was a good idea at the time. | ||
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I'm not though. I'm very entertaining. Do you think I'm scum? | ||
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Could you expand on why? It'd be appreciative if I didn't have to play the dentist here. | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:46 marvellosity wrote: Smurf you've not been entertaining Will posting random gifs help make me entertaining? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8IQzKMn.gif) | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:46 Palmar wrote: Usually when people are scum it's because the role got assigned to them by the host. So that's what I'm going with. What I'm saying is that I received a role that was most definitely not scum though, so you're wrong. I'd like to know why you're wrong. | ||
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On February 22 2014 06:59 Palmar wrote: it'd be such a shame if toad flipped town, this amazing partnership you and I have got going would have to end. Although on the bright side kush wouldn't be refusing to play in any more games. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7nvTVdW.gif) | ||
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On February 22 2014 08:57 Koshi wrote: It's aquanim. The themed games thing gave him away. I am sad it is not the stray kitten. cuz now he actaully can be scum. I have no distaste for themed games. I simply don't find them comparable to normal games in terms of behaviour analysis. | ||
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Welcome Alakaslam. I hope you can one up Sidesprang in terms of content. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:04 Koshi wrote: I hope you are not blue marv. cuz you ded. He's not necessarily. We might have a doc and scum might be too afraid to shoot marv because there might be a doc. | ||
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Mmmm. Maybe. Could also just be frustration as she was pressured by a lot of players, but phrasing is kinda off. Dunno. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:19 Koshi wrote: Even though I agree rayn is on the lynchlist for D2. Some people aren't on it. Rayn is not getting lynched ever unless anyone provides a valid reason for why Rayn wouldn't inform Toad of what he intended to do. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:24 Koshi wrote: scum doesn't do that man. rarely they post the cases they will make in scum QT before they do it in thread. I never see it tbh. No, but when you're making a trap to "catch scum" you inform your scumbuddies because you want to actually make it look like you're trying to catch scum. When Toad sees a post like that by his buddy Rayn he wouldn't react in this manner. No way. | ||
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oo many scummy things, something that happened in Shadow as well yet everyone decided to not lynch him for it. The contradiction and his focus on defending himself, calling you a liar but not scum, all counts in for it. Sounds like a perfectly legitimate reasoning. I could go over everything Marv and co said about Toad but I would've just rehashed the things that were scummy. Can't reinvent the wheel. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:39 Koshi wrote: Well. I can see that it upsets you in case you are town. But it isn't going to stop most likely. Don't see any use pressing this any further though. Let's just leave Suki alone for now and see what she finds. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1VvBzb3.gif) | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:53 marvellosity wrote: I agree that suki looks not so hot. Only kinda because of the scumslip, but mainly because of the anger it contained rather than the wording. kush looks awful as well. Remember how I picked him up middle of the day. He was kinda suspicious of Toad at the start. 1.Then "Toad is town, I don't get marv's case at all" 2.Then "I will quit mafia if Toad flips town" Can anyone tell me how kush got from 1 to 2? I find the anger more understandable than the slip. Anger could come from feeling like you've been tunneled all game long whilst still giving your best. As for Kush, he's one of my question marks. Doesn't he usually bus his buddies though? Is it customary for him to give a buddy a townread at first? | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:54 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Doesn't he usually bus his buddies though? Is it customary for him to give a buddy a townread at first? Actually this is a dumb question as it's far too specific. Will look into it myself for anything comparable. | ||
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On February 22 2014 09:58 Palmar wrote: tomorrow we lynch the smurf. Except we don't because I'm town and I don't get mislynched. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rotEJ9R.gif) | ||
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I am enjoying this guessing game. | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:02 Alakaslam wrote: 70+ pages hijole Folks I will be far more productive if folks just catch me up by talking as if you are the only person who remembers wtf happened earlier and I work off the current stuff. That way I will catch up by osmosis and still bring a fresh read to the table (though it will be a crap read... But I will work on my play) What page is the phase post on and what phase is it now? If no one is online to reply in 10 I will just go look, my connection is faster than that... Rayn made a trap, Toad and prplhz were being poopy heads about the trap, prplhz then proceeded to shit townie bricks whereas Toad just kept looking worse and worse so he got lynched. We're in the start of N1. I am kind of disappointed that prplhz stopped shitting townie bricks though. | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:04 Alakaslam wrote: In fact I was scum with him. What do you wanna know? >: ) hehehe I'd appreciate the name of the game so I could look it up and analyze it. | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:07 Balla24 wrote: its extractor trick http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439578 Yeah, he busses Alaka hard from the start. Never mentioned Thrawn before he got shot N1. Here he started out with a town read on Toad. Makes me blink for a second. Could be because he considers Toad a valuable asset and he was the GF though, then changed when it was inevitable. His thought process didn't really flow with the rest of town either. I remember Rayn saying something about how Kush loves to sheep him if he's town and tries to deter Rayn when he's scum. In this game he's going in against Marv/Rayn so that's a point in favour of him being scum. Rayn why did you read Kush as town? | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:22 Alakaslam wrote: so far thinking Kush or Oats, sound good? Any suggestions on which is better? I think you should read Toad first given he flipped scum gf and all. | ||
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On February 22 2014 10:25 Alakaslam wrote: I consider everything scum say WIFOM. What good does that do? He was the major topic of discussion so you'll understand the references people make to him better. | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's not my fault you fail to post a single coherent thought when you are town but not as scum. Actually Slam was town on the first version of Shadowed Mini Mafia and I don't feel like he didn't post a coherent thought there. | ||
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Also you never answered me on if you believe Kush not reading the thread is alignment indicative and in what way. | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:32 Alakaslam wrote: Kush wasn't reading the thread, eh? I don't remember him stating that but it kind of looks like it frankly. Rayn mentioned it earlier. Important bit starts here. | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:45 Alakaslam wrote: K how far before relevant? Because here is something. 1: I made my approach to replacing clear 2: I hope you saw that and will assume 3: Here you are making me read old stuff 4: You also recommended I read a bunch of WIFOM Therefore: 1: I have expectations of others reactions 2: You contradicted those 3: Twice 4: See 3 Therefore: Leaning scummy. How dat for a case ppl I linked you to the exact post where Rayn explained why Kush wasn't reading the thread. I don't understand? It's a single post and we were talking about it. You're more intimately familiar with Kush's ways than I am, so I figured I could use your input on that. As for reading "a bunch of WIFOM". I wanted you to read Toad's filter because then you'll see what everyone has been talking about. It's context that's necessary to understand other players' filters. | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: that marv is confirmed confirmed town, probably rayn too and palmar. but you scum I'm not though. | ||
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On February 22 2014 12:03 Oatsmaster wrote: reveal your identity pls No. I'm smurfing for a reason. | ||
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On February 22 2014 17:12 Palmar wrote: Actually I think YOU THINK you're smurfing for a reason, but you really aren't. You've probably convinced yourself people give a shit about your meta, when they don't, and you think this will somehow help you. You're not doing anything interesting with this smurf, just being a boring normal player, why can't you be a boring normal player on your main account? How about you stop thinking you know the reason why I'm smurfing? Because you don't. You really don't. Also Oats gets to think I'm scum because he's bad. You're not bad and I'm obviously town so stop trying to be bad because you don't like that I'm smurfing. | ||
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On February 22 2014 21:46 marvellosity wrote: why do you think you're obviously town? Because I'm clearly not trying to hide anything. My thoughts are forthcoming, I care about the game and I'm not pursuing any scum objectives. | ||
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On February 22 2014 21:46 marvellosity wrote: why do you think you're obviously town? Like if someone can explain to me how spending 4 hours catching up and analyzing as I go along then ending up with no suspects when the scum bandwagon which is a godfather is leading makes any sense as scum I'm all ears. If you say WIFOM I will PM the host, get a vig role and shoot you. | ||
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you're dead to me. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:13 marvellosity wrote: why does Balla have to be town rayn? On February 22 2014 04:41 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote: Filter length on LXIV and Normal Mini Mafia (scum) + Show Spoiler + Filter length this game: + Show Spoiler + It's twice as long and we're not even done with D1 yet. Dude is town. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: This does not really hold water because LXIV was a PM game and there was a reason Balla went afk in NMM. Balla has admitted multiple times that he has trouble creating content as scum. It is a tell for him. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well then you maybe should have said so instead of pulling 3 filters and say "see the length". Images can convey things better than words. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:21 Palmar wrote: Don't even care if you're scum. Would like to lynch you for boring anyway. I haven't been boring at all though. I think you're scum for misrepresenting my entertainingness. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Alak is capable of posting ok stuff as town but struggles as scum. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0wGhq9g.gif) | ||
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On February 22 2014 11:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's not my fault you fail to post a single coherent thought when you are town but not as scum. I disagree and feel he has posted some coherent thoughts as town sometimes, but the mean is definitely that he's more sensible as scum than town. | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:31 Oatsmaster wrote: and i know who smurf is, its WAVEOFSHADOWS ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lLLFEoq.gif) | ||
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On February 22 2014 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh btw smurf, i thought kush is town because i thought Toad is town and his "i quit mafia if Toad flips town" was something i don't think he would never say as mafia if Toad was town. You still haven't told me if you think Kush not reading the thread is town or scum since you made a big deal about it earlier. | ||
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On February 22 2014 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or Palmar, can you explain the prplhz read? Neither of those, but it's mostly because he was starting a lot of stuff and being very proactive at the start. Feel he's dropped off a bit though. | ||
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Suki don't you feel like Balla's filter length and content alone, regardless of the quality is indicative of him probably being town? I don't think he'd try this hard as scum, especially with Toad going down the drain so quickly. I need to check out prplhz again. Dude's been mysteriously afk. | ||
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On February 23 2014 01:22 suki wrote: It's funny because I picked up on that too, but I found your dealings with toad more likely to come from town rayn, and your exchange with balla looks really good, and just a bunch of other things that made me decide you were town. Is this a read you made yourself or is this something you're taking marv's word for? | ||
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I like this answer. Quick, decisive and confident. | ||
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On February 23 2014 01:26 suki wrote: So Palmar is town and he's just straight up wrong on me? Palmar hasn't put serious effort in since ever in this game. He's not trying to influence the game in any mafia like fashion. I don't think Day 1 would've been a clear wash on Toad if he was scum. I don't think Mafia had much thread presence at all. | ||
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On February 23 2014 01:39 marvellosity wrote: suki might be town for regularly playing mafia before breakfast A+ reasoning. | ||
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On February 23 2014 02:32 Palmar wrote: Palmar this thread would be greatly improved with no posting from you. Fixed that for you. | ||
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In the early stages of the game he went after Rayn's plan like Toad did. It seems unlikely that both scum would go for it, but it's not unheard of. Prplhz's filter in Carnival Cruise as mafia was very short though (4 pages), and he lived all the way until endgame. This game doesn't feel like Carnival Cruise at all and a lot more like Roulette. Meta says he's probably town. He's paranoid too whereas his accusations felt more certain during CC. In Roulette he was more uncertain which I feel parallels this game. Lack of interaction with Toad I can explain from the fact that they had the same gut response to Rayn's plan so I can imagine pr giving Toad a blind eye for that. Yeah I think Prplhz is town. | ||
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On February 23 2014 03:06 Palmar wrote: in other news, Palmar is still insufferable | ||
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If the read is unreasonable, she's scum irrelevant of other meta tells. If you think she's still town despite the read, then clearly the read is reasonable for her to make as town. | ||
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At least that's how I think Marv meant it. | ||
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Don't have much to add either though. | ||
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Also is your power single use or why did you claim? | ||
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On February 23 2014 08:26 Balla24 wrote: if you're town: kush scum oats/cfp scum will have to check slam/suki/palmar/koshi/prplhz town for now ??????????? | ||
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On February 23 2014 08:30 Balla24 wrote: he's being normal slam, I liked his approach to replacing in and he hasnt said anything super bad or good yet... he's on the lower end but he's still town for me He hasn't produced any content. How can you call him town for what he's done? On February 23 2014 08:31 Balla24 wrote: I don't know who you are CFP what do you want me to do, you've barely done anything. I know slam's meta. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1jV4vOO.gif) I've given my thoughts about everything during D1, didn't push anyone that wasn't Toad despite having spent 4 hours of catching up, I've led discussion during N1 and given direction to town. Slam has done nothing so far. | ||
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On February 23 2014 08:34 Balla24 wrote: CFP the thing is I know who slam is, I have NO IDEA who you are. Yes and I have done plenty to show I'm town. That you're not seeing it is ignorance. Question is if it's willful. There is literally no reason for you to have a town reason on Ala over me. | ||
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On February 23 2014 08:39 Koshi wrote: I dont believe Balla is scum. At all. I didn't either until just now. Need to go back to reread but how he can have a townread on Alakaslam over me is just incomprehensible. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:41 Balla24 wrote: Did I ever have a townread on you throughout day1? Why would I suddenly have a townread of you now. Slam just came into the thread, I feel townie on him from his entrance that's all there is to it. I presumed you have read N1. I didn't expect a townread but not a scumread either as you haven't said anything about me for a while now. This is the last thing you ever said about me other than saying my reasons were better than other people for sure. If I'm a scumread to you why haven't you tried to get a read off me? | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:43 Koshi wrote: Another dramaqueen. Alkaslam seems to post quite freely. I will not go so far and call him town and I think I forgot about him in my previous scumlist. But you.could.easily be scum because others arent. I can't be scum though. My role PM is quite clear on that. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:47 Balla24 wrote: You weren't a scumread. This was all under the assumption that rayn is actually a real cop and is town, therefore there has to be someone else. My first choice would be either oats or you depending on what my re-read would give. I'm not calling you scum. This is actually interesting to me. In my experience, scum tend to be more pleasers as it were, and are willing to indulge in what townies ask them. Anything for town cred so to say. I'm not sure if a town Balla would so easily be pressured into giving reads with a situation he hasn't thought of at all yet until this moment. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:50 Koshi wrote: If that is the only reason then why are you mad that balla thinks you are scum? It isn't, I already gave the actual reasons earlier on. Four hours of catching up without any attempt to derail the lynch from Toad for example. Putting that much effort into eventually accomplishing nothing seems like an extreme waste of time from a scum point of view. Wouldn't I have tried pushing something else which I could've gotten away with as I wasn't bound to thread sentiment at the time? I didn't, I didn't even give any reads off at the time because I didn't have any strong reads. It doesn't make any sense as scum to do what I did. If you think I'd sacrifice the scum gf for the sake of using this as wifom then you don't have a very high opinion of my game. I gave the answer I did to lighten up thread sentiment a bit as I'm getting heated and I imagine Balla is too and that isn't good for anyone. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:55 Koshi wrote: No worries. You are only on place 6 on the.great Koshi list. I got you.as.solid.town for d2. I should be like place two on the other side though. I'm very sexy, second only to marv in that sexy regard. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
Bitch you wouldn't know sexy if it hit you with a truck full of sexiness. | ||
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CuteFluffyPuppy
Afghanistan138 Posts
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