EPTBan List 2.0 Breakout Discussion - Page 6
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
1) no-one can really come up with many, if any, examples where people are treated radically differently, and even if it does occur sometimes, that's not actually a big issue 2) replacing out before a game starts isn't the same as being modkilled on day 3, no matter how much rayn says it is and that we "don't get his point". Mafia people do like to talk after all... :> | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On February 25 2012 11:37 Blazinghand wrote: I didn't say I didn't make a case, I said I didn't say I made a case. You said I said I made a case and I said I called him out. so all things are possible probably one of my favorite sentences i've ever written is "I didn't say I didn't make a case, I said I didn't say I made a case." | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
or even better I make like 3 posts during day 1, don't post at all during night 1, and get shot by scum n1 because i'm so terrifying and then I post some totally reasonable cases in another game and catch like a million scum and am a claimed blue and everyone's like "clearly this is scum bh" and i get lynched | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
As for not yelling that Prome didn't get banned for his inactivity, I literally have never read Titanic II. So yah, Prome not getting a ban is pretty egregious. The problem that some people are portraying my arguments not how I'm clearly intending them. Flat out, some discretion in deciding who to ban, who to warn, who to upgrade punishments for and who to give a free pass to is required. The problem is that the current system gives far too much leeway to mods allowing for favoritism/preferential treatment/whatever. The system change I proposed is a very simple one and easy to put into place. Hosts have a standardized submission format to put into the ban list. They submit each and every potentially punishable offense. So if Prome gets modkilled for inactivity that goes onto the banlist. On that same form, the host is given room to explain what happened and the punishment they're seeking. They have the ability to say: "I'm not requesting action against Prome for extenuating circumstances." The difference between what happens now is that it helps 'catch' situations (similar to DP's or others) where there needs to be more objective eyes look at and decide the problem at hand. It helps prevent situations where, like how DP posted to "ban-increase" on me, people are more likely to "take shit personal" because the form includes current ban/warning status. It also helps prevent situations where a player who currently has a warning gets banned but there is no increase in banned game count. The goal is to try and treat everyone fairly; vets getting preferential treatment just because they're vets is wrong. That can only go on to promote an antagonistic attitude of "vets vs non-vets;" it will only proceed to alienate players. When you alienate players it can only serve to bring a bad name to TL at other places OR serve to make people to take counter actions to drive (specific) players away. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:15 geript wrote: First off, replacing out is just as bad as getting modkilled. No one argues that if you are inactive D1 and get replaced that you should't get an inactivity ban. This is just flat out not the case and is not considered as such by a majority of hosts and players. Requesting a replacement is not as bad as forcing a replacement or getting mod-killed. In the first you are making a request of the host which he/she may decline. In the second you have either done nothing at all with no pm communication forcing the mods hand or have been such a detriment that you have been removed from the game by the host. Not to mention a replacement does not remove a player from the game and flip them like a mod kill does. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
If there are extenuating circumstances, it doesn't take making a stupid form for everyone to see to actually change this, it will remain the case, stupid form or no-stupid form. It's been discussed before (during a discussion on a ban on me for one, and probably other occasions) but the banlist isn't just some punitive, handing out punishments affair. Is the player in question likely to do whatever bad thing they did again? Prome has a sterling playing record, is he going to afk from games in the future just because he had rl issues at this one time? Probably not. If he knew he had issues and he still signed up, he probably learnt from that too. geript ragequit-modkilled from one game, got a one-game ban, and then did precisely the same thing again in the next game he played. Is he likely to do it again? Frankly, yes, so 3 games is pretty normal... | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:45 marvellosity wrote: geript ragequit-modkilled from one game, got a one-game ban, and then did precisely the same thing again in the next game he played. Is he likely to do it again? Frankly, yes, so 3 games is pretty normal... So then you'd have supported a pretty heavy ban on DP for replacing out without cause in successive games correct? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Im kinda miffed about that. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9856 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:50 Oatsmaster wrote: I dunno marv, you gave me a 1 game ban for not voting twice. Im kinda miffed about that. I think that is a standard ban. Missing 2 votes is generally a modkill. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:50 geript wrote: So then you'd have supported a pretty heavy ban on DP for replacing out without cause in successive games correct? Just fucking get over it dude. To be honest me not getting a ban for a game does not mean that you did not deserve a 3 game ban when you clearly did. and it also does not mean you can shit up every thread you can find in some deluded quest for vengeance. GM made a ruling on this. I am not getting a ban retroactively. So just drop it and participate in the community like a normal rational human please. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Poll: Is this discussion over? Not until geript says so damnit (7) No, it makes me hard (5) How are we still going? (4) Yes... *yawn* (3) Let's carry on to while away some time (1) 20 total votes Your vote: Is this discussion over? (Vote): Yes... *yawn* | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9856 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:56 DarthPunk wrote: Just fucking get over it dude. To be honest me not getting a ban for a game does not mean that you did not deserve a 3 game ban when you clearly did. and it also does not mean you can shit up every thread you can find in some deluded quest for vengeance. GM made a ruling on this. I am not getting a ban retroactively. So just drop it and participate in the community like a normal rational human please. DP you're not getting my point. From an objective rules based stance, yes I deserve a 3 game ban. The problem is that there should be reasonable expectation of fair treatment. For example, StorrZerg should have a 2 game ban currently (instead of a 1 game ban), but he doesn't have that. Dems da rulz. The problem that you're not seeing is that the preferential treatment causes problems. It flat out shows that if you're not a percieved "Part of TL in group" then you get fucked as hard as you can, but if you're "Part of TL in group" then we cover dat shit up yo. There literally should be zero expectation for people to come in here, play mafia and be totes kool beans if you treat them like shit and don't give them a fair shake. So when you don't give people a fair shake, nobody should be surprised when shit starts raining from the heavens. The goal here is to fix the problem. The core problem isn't that I got 3 games and you got 1 warning for equivalent actions; the problem is that the current system in place has no safeguards against that. The core problem is that current system breeds inequality and unfairness; there's no unequal, unfair system around that doesn't breed resentment. The point is that to correct the "shitstorm" scenario, permabanning me isn't the fix. I'm not the first person who's done this. I won't be the last. The goal is to fix the system so that there aren't clear and obvious inequities so that people can't get their feelings or get angry with out unjustly they're being treated. Let me be clear to get it through your think skull: I'm not trying to push for a 3 or 8 or 20 game ban for you. You not being banned is just one of I'm sure many injustices that have been done just since the 2.0 banlist. If I were to go back further I'm sure that I could find many, many more. My goal is to correct the system so that the bullshit that allowed you to get away with 1 warning (which realistically isn't any punishment) instead of a 1 game and 3 game ban gets fixed. It's that plain and simple. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12971 Posts
![[image loading]](http://cutepics.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cute_fluffy_bunny.jpg) | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
![[image loading]](http://onlypositive.net/image.axd?picture=2010%2F5%2FCute-Kitty-Hug.jpg) | ||
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