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On January 06 2014 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 18:23 DarthPunk wrote:On January 06 2014 18:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 06 2014 18:11 DarthPunk wrote:On January 06 2014 18:06 Mocsta wrote:
Dp
U r doing a great job if misinterpretting the argument.
To the best of my limited literacy skills, I have not noticed any one arguing that wgenuine real life issues resulting in an inactivity modkill should be banned... Unless we are talking about repeat offenders. E.g stutters.
We are talking about a hypothetical situation where newbie x and vet y both rage quit.
Both should be banned. That is the justice wagon being thrown about. Then why are we even arguing about that, because that is already exactly what happens? No that's not what happens. Like i literally just posted examples of 4 games where people intentionally broke the rules. Half of the people were banned and the other half was not. I am not trying to get anyone banned here or blame anyone. I am just pointing out irrational behavior regarding bans. Hosts discretion. Some things were worse or had a different context. That is the exact reason the hosts have discretion in the first place, and that has been the way it has operated for years. And this is why host discretion is bullshit. This is all about how people in that game feel about things. You can't possibly say i should not feel offended or should feel less offended for someone breaking rule X instead of rule Y. Do you think geript is legitmately bullshitting and does not feel robbed because someone broke rules like he did and he got a different punishment than the other person? Like do you really think he just has some personal issues against someone which are so strong he feels like he needs to bring the issue up to everyone and argue against everyone about it? Because i don't, and i completely understand him regarding the ban thingy. This is why it should go like this: Mods set the rules for the games -> you sign up you agree to the rules -> if you break the rules you get a ban -> if you repeatedly break the rules in games you get a more severe ban (like 2nd time, 3-game ban, 3rd time 5-game ban, etc etc). It should not matter if you are a newbie or a vet, because regardless of your status you should know the rules and by signing up to a game you agree to follow the rules, whatever they are. It really is that simple.
Not to argue with your major points which I find I generally agree with but as to the bolded: yes. That is exactly how geript feels according to PMs he has sent me. Revenge against a few who he feels wronged by is the motivation for his actions.
I find myself believing more in leniency for newbies and less for vets, I may be in a majority of one here but hear me out, if newbie Y gets inactivity modkilled but comes back interested to play and didn't realize he was in the game (in this case I'm talking about nyxnyxnyx specifically) I find myself much more interested in letting that player play than someone who has been around long enough to know better getting similarly modkilled. Bill Murray did exactly the same thing in WoS' pyp game (if memory serves) but if he came back and asked for requital I'd be much less lenient with him because he knows better.
After the two times I've had to replace out and my one inactivity modkill I've always been straightforward with the hosts that I am totally willing to accept a ban for my actions. I even feel that I deserve a ban for said actions. Real life has gotten in the way in all three occurrences and others have come through for me as replacements (shoutouts to BH and Mocsta) just as I, in the past, have replaced others. As a vet though I believe that I deserve to be held to a higher standard. I deserve to be warned or banned for my inability to remain in a game. It is my responsibility as a vet to be a good example for newer players and newer players should be able to look at my game history and my ban history and see me following the rules every step of the way.
Another example which OO brought to the thread earlier is of a warning he received for posting in a qt during a newbie game. First of all it was only an in game warning and did not go to the ban list at all and second of all if OO did the same thing now it would be a ban list warning. He knows better. He is a 'vet' I guess, though that term seems very nebulous now that I see it being applied to people I coached given that I don't easily apply it to myself.
On January 06 2014 22:58 syllogism wrote:
The people involved in this drama aren't or weren't even "vets" and certainly not people "on the receiving end" of any perks. Mig, who reviewed the situation, probably barely even recognized DarthPunk by name.
This, a million times this. DP, Mocsta, myslef and many others are not by the general definition of TL mafia: vets. I hear the word bandied about in my general direction on occasion and I can't say it applies to me. I'm a decent player, I've been here close to two years and I keep trying to get better. There you have it. I'm no more vet than geript is.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Prome, you're funny.
Edit: "massive paragraph about righteous self-flagellation and being a vet and held to higher standards as a vet blablablablablablablabla"
"except i'm not a vet and nor are all these people lols"
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On January 06 2014 22:41 geript wrote:
Now you're just being dense. If you have a problem with me trying to fix the system, something which I'm not going to stop doing until the system gets fixed then you can either help me get it change OR if that's a massive problem for you like it seems to be then there are other sites for you to play mafia on.
How rude is that? Holyflare has been here just as long as you have and (surprise, surprise) nobody has a problem with him, he didnt fall victim to the massive Veteran conspiracy to *get* the noobies. Actually, there are other sites for YOU to play on. I've been quietly reading all 7 pages of this until this post. If you have a problem with the way things are run here, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to /in to more games. I've never played with you and don't have any experience in that regard, but I have been playing mafia for some time and quite frankly, the impression that I get from the half-dozen-or-so TL players who I've talked to off-site about this is that TL would be an infinitely better place if YOU left, or at least gave yourself a dramatic attitude adjustment. If you look around you and think everyone else is a problem, you're the problem. Maybe people would take you more seriously if you weren't so delusionally butthurt about a punishment that you totally deserved and I hope you receive again someday.
Ps. Don't come to OMGUS, we have no decorum and will tear you to fucking shreds.
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so corazon is mad because there are a lot of people that he doesn't like and they keep talking to him and he needs to get them banned somehow without irritating GM (by talking about them directly). geript is mad that other people didn't get banned when he did even though the circumstances and their behavior were different.
did I understand this correctly?
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On January 07 2014 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
Prome, you're funny.
Edit: "massive paragraph about righteous self-flagellation and being a vet and held to higher standards as a vet blablablablablablablabla"
"except i'm not a vet and nor are all these people lols"
Heh, good point.
But substitute in 'experienced' instead of 'vet' again its hard for me to look at these definitions because, well, I don't see myself as a vet even though I know others do. The term 'vet' on TL means less and less the more generations of players we have since each of us is a vet to those who come after and will never be a vet to those who came before.
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I don't even know why this argument is necessary. Is it really so hard to just not get banned T_T
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 07 2014 01:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
Prome, you're funny.
Edit: "massive paragraph about righteous self-flagellation and being a vet and held to higher standards as a vet blablablablablablablabla"
"except i'm not a vet and nor are all these people lols" Heh, good point. But substitute in 'experienced' instead of 'vet' again its hard for me to look at these definitions because, well, I don't see myself as a vet even though I know others do. The term 'vet' on TL means less and less the more generations of players we have since each of us is a vet to those who come after and will never be a vet to those who came before.
The true test to determine whether or not you are a veteran is to shoot you in the face and see if you survive the night.
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On January 07 2014 01:42 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 01:38 Promethelax wrote:On January 07 2014 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
Prome, you're funny.
Edit: "massive paragraph about righteous self-flagellation and being a vet and held to higher standards as a vet blablablablablablablabla"
"except i'm not a vet and nor are all these people lols" Heh, good point. But substitute in 'experienced' instead of 'vet' again its hard for me to look at these definitions because, well, I don't see myself as a vet even though I know others do. The term 'vet' on TL means less and less the more generations of players we have since each of us is a vet to those who come after and will never be a vet to those who came before. The true test to determine whether or not you are a veteran is to shoot you in the face and see if you survive the night.
BACK in my day you couldn't be a vet unless you were B- in ICCUP, BW
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On January 07 2014 01:38 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 01:29 marvellosity wrote:
Prome, you're funny.
Edit: "massive paragraph about righteous self-flagellation and being a vet and held to higher standards as a vet blablablablablablablabla"
"except i'm not a vet and nor are all these people lols" Heh, good point. But substitute in 'experienced' instead of 'vet' again its hard for me to look at these definitions because, well, I don't see myself as a vet even though I know others do. The term 'vet' on TL means less and less the more generations of players we have since each of us is a vet to those who come after and will never be a vet to those who came before.
Previous vet's may not consider our generation vet's which kind of makes sense because we are newbies to them right? But if you spend two years and thousands of posts playing mafia here then you are a vet.
Not that it means anything. But it is an apt description for people who have played a lot and been around for a couple of years.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On January 07 2014 01:33 iVLosK! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 22:41 geript wrote:
Now you're just being dense. If you have a problem with me trying to fix the system, something which I'm not going to stop doing until the system gets fixed then you can either help me get it change OR if that's a massive problem for you like it seems to be then there are other sites for you to play mafia on.
How rude is that? Holyflare has been here just as long as you have and (surprise, surprise) nobody has a problem with him, he didnt fall victim to the massive Veteran conspiracy to *get* the noobies. Actually, there are other sites for YOU to play on. I've been quietly reading all 7 pages of this until this post. If you have a problem with the way things are run here, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to /in to more games. I've never played with you and don't have any experience in that regard, but I have been playing mafia for some time and quite frankly, the impression that I get from the half-dozen-or-so TL players who I've talked to off-site about this is that TL would be an infinitely better place if YOU left, or at least gave yourself a dramatic attitude adjustment. If you look around you and think everyone else is a problem, you're the problem. Maybe people would take you more seriously if you weren't so delusionally butthurt about a punishment that you totally deserved and I hope you receive again someday. Ps. Don't come to OMGUS, we have no decorum and will tear you to fucking shreds.
I think he was replying to DP not me 
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United States22154 Posts
So we concluded that the vast majority of people agree that the system works, GM isn't part of some conspiracy and that things will continue the way they are?
(and thanks to OO for moving this out of the banlist thread)
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Your overly defensive denial of any conspiracy happening is clear proof that you are in fact conspiring.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
It wouldn't be the first time...
On November 03 2011 03:39 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 03:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol if Crofty and Katzeleute are definitely smurfs. Probably both GM's smurfs, actually. Stop sabotaging my conspiracy. I decided to remedy the lack of players on TL by becoming new players, ok?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
denying a conspiracy is EXACTLY what GM would do if there WAS a conspiracy
>.>
<.<
>.>
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Ow Hiro, that hurt. Hit above the belt next time, please.
I still feel like veterans have a bit more leeway when it comes to warnings/bans. I'm not specifically talking about things like talking out of game, I'm more talking about how harsh some of them can be. Yeah, I know it's their playstyle, but some of them tend to be out of line with the things they say. Yet, they just get looked over because it's part of their "playstyle". I really don't understand.
However, I also acknowledge that Geript has made this giant wall and in choosing to agree with him, I basically have to throw what I say over the wall. It's hard to do.
Perhaps I will bring this issue up later, because I don't think it will do anything now. I'm sorry to GM for "shitting up the ban thread" (according to OO).
P.S. BH, you seem to have some really similar names for your friends in your alternate TL Mafia universe.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
It's just coincidence that they're smilar. Some of them are quite differnet like gdcRocazon
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On January 07 2014 03:34 Blazinghand wrote:
It's just coincidence that they're smilar. Some of them are quite differnet like gdcRocazon
I've heard of that guy. Isn't he like a mafia god or something?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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On January 07 2014 03:43 Blazinghand wrote:
nope
So then that must make me a mafia god in this universe
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Oh TL mafia how you love your drama
Never change... never change
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EPT
