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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Anyway this will end the same way this discussion always did in the past - it's absolutely unenforcable either way so the only thing a rule against it could realistically accomplish is that toad will stop posting about it in thread. Granted, that's a worthwile goal too. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
I felt that it was borderline ok to talk about stuff not directly about the game. Such as: Oh it was really fun playing with you, why do people always think I am scummy. But talking about or directing lynches when you have access to the obs qt is fucking cheating. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On April 15 2014 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: wtf back and forth? rofl  EDIT: omfg whatever roflm, dsahnm Shlagnm, mmumpuumpanga zisuku chian dniiniou shaaan. Salaam bleor schalahazaan kumma zoon faunoo. Magic what is thiang yoyoyoyouuuuuy lll niiihaoo Ichinisanjigo | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On April 15 2014 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: omfg whatever roflm, dsahnm On April 15 2014 12:04 Amiko wrote: Rayn I think I disagree with you but I'd like to get a better sense of what you're saying. QED | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 15 2014 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: wtf back and forth? rofl EDIT: omfg whatever roflm, dsahnm Well, you are going against Toad and Fool for "discussing" the game with someone outside of it. Your accusation against marv, is based on a situation where there was a discussion of the game with someone outside of it. We have to make sure the Toad/Foo situation isn't the same as the rayn/marv situation. If not why get angry and try to ban and spacefuck Toad, but not yourself?  I am a 3rd party here, I don't know anything about any of this, so I can't make preemptive calls on stuff that hastily, specially with such a "fragile" issue like this. But calm down dude, post the PMs, and let's talk about this. We also need to wait for marv's version of it, but that wouldn't matter much if the PMs are posted. Let's not crucify people yet. I get the feeling, that maybe this is such a "big" deal now because it surfaced like this. Toad openly posted that Foo told him who to lynch and they discussed it. If Toad didn't do so, then nobody would have noticed. It seems at least Toad didn't think he was blatantly cheating (and did it in ignorance). Can't say about Foo because we don't have enough info (and marv I guess). Seems to me it's likely more of these situations have happened before, but because people (at least most of them) just were ignorant or didn't care about it, they never surfaced so we never heard about them. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
and i don't give a fuck. i just quit. ^^ | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
YESS YES! | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 15 2014 12:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah gonzaw. i am going against a brick dicksucking wall. and i don't give a fuck. i just quit. ^^ ok Know that we are going to have biscuits in a few moments, you'll miss them | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
In the Dr. Who game, at one point Hopeless received a PM (saying he saw someone) make a night visit. Hopeless claimed this. Town realized that was inconsistent and called him out. Mods then realized they had erred and sent Hopeless a corrected PM (he saw no one). Hopeless claimed the correction and said it was mod error (it was). If hopeless was scum and was caught in an inconsistency, he could have lied about mod error as a way to explain the inconsistency. Here it was an innocent mistake and not his fault. Although it's kind of lame to let someone claim mod error, I think it should be permitted precisely because it can be innocent. It doesn't seem substantially different to me that making a claim like "I read the wrong PM" or "I misread the PM" or whatever. For you, the argument that Foolish read him as scum was compelling. For most of the rest of the town, it was a read that was barely explained by a player who wasn't even in the game, that may not have ever existed in the first place. When hopeless did eventually get (mis)lynched, I don't feel it was substantially related to Toad's comment on Foolishness. I don't know, I think ultimately town decides whether it wants to believe something or not, and that's the core of mafia anyway. As long as we avoid mod comments, the game is usually fine as long as people aren't overly rude. sorry if the game bummed you out rayn | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
ROFL!! | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On April 15 2014 12:18 Grackaroni wrote: Have you been drinking Alaka? I am both teetotal and a U2 listener in other words I watched alcohol ruin one side of my family and drugs (hardcore drugs) another, and the last side be wealthy and support the others... So yeah BUT I HAZ DIS GOLLUM | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
On April 15 2014 12:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am just waiting for Foolishness to tell me if it's in his opinion fair to "maybe request a perma ban on TL" for me. U would be Stimey d okmg fish 2.0 Like 15 people would fight 4 your ability ot remain And if u were banned I think everyone would find it amusing what I would do | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Dunno how we should proceed with this though. Waiting for stuff to happen is the safest option. But well...if nobody shows up then like...nothing will happen. Either way, bans seem appropriate for these situations. Still we need some more general awareness of these issues, so it's not just a "ban dude, forget about it" situation, if not it'll keep happening. This specific rule is indeed "unenforceable", and it's harder for stuff like this to surface. We need to increase awareness to: 1)Any time you talk with someone outside the game, pay attention to this kind of stuff. Don't spout anything that comes from your mouth just because, which may mean you'll talk sensitive info of the game with that someone else. Talk responsibly 2)It should be imperative to report any kind of these issues as well. Hopefully, just by making people aware of (1) would be enough for people to not do it, and hopefully people are good enough people to not purposefully cheat even when they know (1). Still, people should keep an eye out for this stuff. If someone is trying to tell you something about the game, first of all tell him to shut up about ongoing games (this would deter some people from randomly talking about games). If he still presses on, then it becomes clear it's purposeful so it should be noted in the Ban thread to be dealt with. Still, these are just ideas I have, we can handle it better I suppose. Also rayn don't leave ;_; And so he spoke, and so he spoke. That mod of TL Mafia, But now Rayn weep o'er his forum, with no one there to hear. Yes now Rayn weep o'er his forum, and not a soul to hear | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Although you can reasonably interpret that rule to mean that there is to be no outside discussion whatsoever, it hasn't traditionally meant that you can not casually discuss your reads with someone outside the game, as long as this person does not have access to any additional information. Newbie games even essentially teach players that it's fine to have outsiders coaching you and these coaches do have access to additional information. From my experience this is how other mafia forums view the issue as well. Regardless, some of you seem to take this game a bit too seriously. Discussing your read with a friend (who isn't reading obs or discussing the game with anyone else) isn't going to ruin the game for anyone, as long as it's still you playing the game and no one else is essentially dictating what you do. Games are won through effort and an observer casually reading something is unlikely to have any meaningful impact on the game. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
It may not matter when the dude doing the discussion is scum (since he already has all the "info" basically), but when he's town, I dunno, stuff can change. It depends on the situation I guess, but better to try and avoid getting into such situations in the first place. There may be times where it might be hard to ignore, like if your mom comes passing by and tells you "Pff, WoS is obviously scum son!" or something, but for the rest of the "common" situations (between players of this very forum), this kind of talk can be avoided. I feel the thing with coaching is different. Hell, even coaches themselves never (or they shouldn't), give you reads themselves, or point you where to find info to lynch a dude or something. Coaches give you advice on how to play, give you feedback on your play, etc. I think it's different from what rayn and co are talking about. I don't think people talking general strategy and how to improve their play outside of games (even if they are playing in one of those), is bad. We can't put people that are playing a game inside a bunker and forbid them from any interaction with society. But the discussions are different. Discussing how to improve/General strategy talk =/= Give specific reads on the specific game you are playing. Even then, unless you are a coach, you don't talk too much about the 1st one. | ||
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