EPTBut I don't really see a need to change the rules. I think the mafia forum could benefit a bit if players were encouraged to ask advice from other players in games that weren't newbies. I remember asking Prome for advice in Nomination and it helped me have my breakout game as a townie. He never told me how he read anyone, I simply asked him about general game advice.
Ban List 2.0 Breakout Discussion - Page 20
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yamato77
11589 Posts
But I don't really see a need to change the rules. I think the mafia forum could benefit a bit if players were encouraged to ask advice from other players in games that weren't newbies. I remember asking Prome for advice in Nomination and it helped me have my breakout game as a townie. He never told me how he read anyone, I simply asked him about general game advice. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
White-grey would just mean a "Bad boy!" reprimand, or a "It's not that bad" Black-grey is serious, is cheating, ban-worthy and should be talked about. I'd say "secret Hydraing" falls into this. The thing with Toad/Foo is that it's not clear whether they were casually talking and Toad just happened to agree with Foo, or if they "hiddenly" argued and came to a consensus about a player that it convinced Toad to pursue his lynch. From the snippet rayn posted it seemed the 2nd, but it's not that clear. On April 15 2014 14:03 yamato77 wrote: But I don't really see a need to change the rules. I think the mafia forum could benefit a bit if players were encouraged to ask advice from other players in games that weren't newbies. I remember asking Prome for advice in Nomination and it helped me have my breakout game as a townie. He never told me how he read anyone, I simply asked him about general game advice. This is fine, but this is only white-white-gray, like RGB(253,253,253). We don't really care about that, we care about RGB(50,50,50) (or heaven forbid....RBG(20,20,20) :O ) The bolded bits don't really address what's happening here. Yes, you can ask anybody in the world, this forum, myself, etc, about "general game advice", and we will all respond with open arms and loving embrace and guide you through this perilous life. But that's not much what we are talking about I believe, which would entail the other bolded bit (not changing the rules). | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
I messaged marv when he was playing in champions game. I didn't have the QT but I consider what I did cheating. Read from bottom up. yeah, yeah, I know, I do that egotistical thing as town. It's true though, I did start both wagons, just on the wrong one T.T hahaha makes me laugh so much you pick up on that, because even I recognise it's such a typical "me" thing. Also yeah, if Foolish lives, there's a best-play time to lynch him, when he has x checks so you can solve the game if he flips town, OR you're lynching mafia by lynching him. Haven't worked it out yet, but it's easy enough Original Message From DarthPunk: I would just lynch him before lylo. cause he most likely get's shot before then but you don;t want to have to deal with him at LYLO either. One thing I found amusing was when you were on the wagon that didn;t lynch scum and then you said they 'could both be scum' and that 'you started both the wagons' was super funny because it was so familiar to me. and meant you were totes town. HAHA. Hide nested quote - Original Message From marvellosity: pretty sure i used the word 'paranoia' twice now Kinda hoping he gets shot in the daypost I'd guess Traz/Foolish as the scum kills Original Message From DarthPunk: Yeah I saw that. Not sure why you think he is more likely to be scum after his cop claim. But w/e. Original Message From marvellosity: Not sure how close you read the game, but I defended Foolishness super-hard on Day 2 when he was leading the lynch. Only since has my paranoia kicked in Naw, your reasons for attacking me usually aren't dumb, only bad <3 Original Message From DarthPunk: As long as the marv rule doesn't apply to me, cause I go at you all the time. I won't say to much about the game. But foolishness WAS town in personality 2. Original Message From marvellosity: yeah he was on my suspicious pile ever since soah brought him up on day 1, but for some reason the fact he kept attacking me prevented me from attacking him really heavily, which is a bit dumb So far 2 for 2 scummers who attacked me dumbly. Maybe more to follow :D Kinda hoping Foolish dies with the daypost, I'm getting all paranoid. Two full strength cops in a game without gf/framer/miller is ugh. Only makes sense if there's 7 mafia or something Original Message From DarthPunk: Yeah I saw. I read the whole game. Not that closely but close enough to see mango was scum like immediately. Original Message From marvellosity: There's clearly some very strong players in the game. But at the same time there were/are a shockingly high number of really terrible players. Although that game is giving birth to a new marv-rule :D | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 15 2014 09:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'll be honest here. And i want to be. Because i am pissed off. Not gonna lie. Foolishness. I made a bad boo-boo and yelled things to gumshoe drunk. You told me "if you don't stop you ar gonna face a perma ban on TL". Well guess fucking what. No! I won't. Or... then give it to me. But man, you. you don't get to tell me that. GMarshal or Greymist etc... people who are reasonable, they can tell me what to do. You can't. You can go fuck yourself because you are a cheater. Thank you. You cheated with Toad on Dr.Who mafia and you can't deny it. So, if you got something to say to me, take it to mods, because you are a cheater. You are not allowed to talk to me like you did. Thanks. So, apologize, or give me the perma ban right here right now. Go man! Be a man, let's see your balls. A cheater can't tell me what to do and if he does... just..... rofl You violated TeamLiquid's rules about posting behavior on forums. If you don't believe check their commandments and rules. When you do that and it's over the top (which it was) any of the mods will just ban you for it, they won't care about what GM says even though they usually leave things to him. I can deny that I cheated with Toad on Dr. Who mafia because I didn't. I also wasn't even playing in that game...lol rofl I don't even know why I'm responding to you. I sent you that PM when you were drunk because I didn't want you to do something you would later regret. I've seen you play video mafia and quite a few games here; some people hate you but I always liked you. Guess it was just one way though. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 15 2014 14:57 DarthPunk wrote: This is a recurring problem. I have basically been just as guilty as everyone else. I messaged marv when he was playing in champions game. I didn't have the QT but I consider what I did cheating. Read from bottom up. I wouldn't even really consider that cheating. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On April 16 2014 03:39 Hopeless1der wrote: rayn's permaban is being discussed because rayn got (un?)reasonably upset at the state of affairs here at TL Mafia and lashed out at various members of the community, primarily in-game, where such outbursts crossed the line in both the game itself and the standards held at TeamLiquid as per the TL.net Commandments I do not think that rayn has any desire (at the moment) to continue playing here until/unless the issues he has brought up are addressed and some level of governance is put in place to ensure that similar transgressions do not occur in the future. At present, those issues are things that I will attempt to simplify: 1) Out-of-game bargaining using items such as one's life (i.e. "I Swear On My Life...etc") 2) Out-of-game hydra/communication with players not actively playing (e.g. reading the thread with a friend and discussing reads) If I have missed anything as it pertains to the situation with rayn, please feel free to correct me. "Items such as one's life" as a phrase ALREADY shows why this "issue" is a non-issue. One's life literally isn't an item. Swearing on your grandmother's grave ltierally isn't an item. Now, if I offered to swear to a life of servitute for someone if I flipped scum, okay, sure, you could say that's out of game bargaining. But why even include "items such as one's life" then? That's ballcrap and you know it. Nobody is bargaining or betting that they're actually gonna commit suicide if they get lynched or if they flip scum. In fact, as I've said it once and I'll say it again: the problem isn't that people do this as town, it's that they DON'T do this as scum. NOBODY has a problem with me doing this as scum. Sure, people think it's distasteful but nobody at all thinks I'm like cheating when I say "I'm sorry guys, I'm just so depressed, my wife left me, my dog bit me, etc etc" and then I delay getting lynched for a day and flip scum the day after. Nobody minds that. What people mind is that people use these words as a "Starsenses" or a "Townie Seal". In my opinion, "I swear on my life" is COMPLETELY OK as long as it's not used as a Townie Seal. Don't make a rule against bargaining non-items or certain phrases, it's dumb, and you should feel bad for making that rule. Just make a rule against townie seals if you want to, because that's really what this is: a rule against townie seals. Don't punish me and my play because some other players are too scared to play their best as scum. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
If an outside observer is just casually talking/discussing the game with a player, even if they discuss reads, it doesn't really constitute cheating. The player outside the game has no vested interest in the outcome of the game other than helping their friend, which is not something we should be discouraging. | ||
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
On April 16 2014 03:18 kitaman27 wrote: I wanna know where I can get my hands on a "marv PM'd me that you're scum" seal. Yeah, that would be useful. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Like, instead of banning a guy, appoint him a coach for the next game. The coach should take note of that player's behaviour in the game (depending on what he did to get banned, e.g inactivity, flaming, cheating, etc), and give him advice along the game to improve, and try to get him back in line when the dude keeps doing the ban-worthy things. So if the dude starts flaming and ragequitting, have the coach talk to him in IRC or QT about what he is doing, why it hurts the game, how he could change his behaviour and his outlook on the game, how to chill out, etc. If the dude is AFKing, then the coach can like...start shouting at him or something I guess?. After the game is over, the coach could give some pointers to him on how he did or whatever. Then he could give some insight on whether he believed he improved or not, which could make the host "lift" the ban on him or keep it (or increase it if the guy got worse). Basically, when you "ban" a player, give him 2 options: 1)Sit out a game 2)Play the game, but be in constant contact with a rehab-coach, give him feedback, letting him give you feedback and advice, bla bla all that shit. If the dude chooses (2), but plays even worse (goes the whole game AFK for example), then you give him 1 more ban (which he has to sit out no matter what). I'm not saying this may or may not be totally retarded, but could be a fun alternative to the usual shitfest going on I mean, if Sweden can do it, why can't TL Mafia do it? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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