EPT[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 20 2014 09:28 gonzaw wrote: Not with that attitude, you don't.But I also don't have time to put baby oil all over my sweet muscles! :O Get oilin' | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(also, hi) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 21 2014 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: I gots a hard time hearing posts. Too much waxy buildup.He tried to warn people to be careful with how they enter the thread. You should have listened! I just don't consider sandroba saying "I'm going to read posts and try to find scum" to be a big reveal of a secret plan. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: *dancing queen blares through the stadium*I want more austin. Waiter, can I get some more austinmcc plz? GOOD LORD, THAT'S HIS MUSIC (how could I not find a clip of this or something similar on youtube?) I'll give you two thoughts and then you can ask me whatever. (1) I think your specific point against prom is the...most specific point against anyone. Lotta "doesn't quite feel right" or "is asking vapid questions", but I wholeheartedly agree that these two posts On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote: lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita. Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll start slow and then start bringing the pain to scum. On January 21 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote: do not lead me to this justification from promAs far as I can tell, he doesn't respond to pressure on himself this early so it wouldn't matter. I only offered that as an aside anyway, my main reason for not wanting to vote him is because I literally don't see one. Hapa, do you see yourself getting shot N1 in this game? On January 21 2014 11:52 Promethelax wrote: WoS's "question" doesn't concern sandroba, or sandroba play, and is a throwaway silly question anyway. I currently have the score 1-0 VE on the issue of whether Promethelax justified his treating your posts and WoS's posts on Sandroba differently.WoS had a question that feels curious, in my experience curious people are more often town than scum. VE felt fluffy. WoS felt curious. Reasonable? No. True? Yes. Often accurate? Yes. (2) I think all this Foolishness stuff is ... foolishness. He's typed 4.3 words. A big discussion of his alignment based on 4.3 words feels very filler-y, and like nobody can build any particularly strong read on the guy or his play this game. So I don't care about foolishness for now. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm interested in whether Sandroba's scumdar pinged off anyone's entrance posts. If nothing else, can you give us a towniest/scummiest entrance post? (You're allowed to disregard my post entering the ring, because it's the towniest and nobody else has made a second entrance with stage music yet) Gonna look at a couple more things | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 21 2014 10:51 WaveofShadow wrote: Wave's filter, apart from needing that correction made to his posts, is mostly mush. I do like his post calling giving specific reads on VE, hapa, though. He spoke with them a bit earlier in the day, and the talking --> reads for reasons looks townie to me at this point in the game. lol I'm really hoping you're not scum kita. Nah no reason to vote sandroba yet. Not only is there basically nothing to vote him for, I've seen what he's capable of as the game progresses (from PYP) and if he is town and plays this game anything like that, he'll accuse townaustin of being mafia and then work to get him lynched and then start bringing the pain to scum. Marv opened with ahoyhoy which means he's ancient. As far as the rest of his filter On January 21 2014 19:40 marvellosity wrote: Initial plan was to play similarly to the last numbered game I was in. I actually felt really good about my D1 just poking at people, trying to get reads, trying to get activity, and I think I do a decent job as activity/friendliness cop. However, that style doesn't translate to a game without a mayor, a smaller game, and a game where people are most likely all going to be active. So my plan to how I would approach D1 is unlikely to be how I actually approach it. austin dear, how are you planning on approaching day 1 this game? (last post I promise) marv, gimme some particular questions of kita's that you find wonky. I think I really like his filter, and perhaps there's fruitful discussion there | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 03:46 marvellosity wrote: Do you find Prome's justification for differentiating between VE and WoS's posts credible?austin the issue wasn't whether Prome justified the difference, but whether what he did makes him scummy or not. You're 1-0ing something that wasn't even really a point of contention | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If you like Prome's explanation, I'm interested in hearing about that. If you don't, then you think Prome (1) is silly or (2) gave a false reason and/or (3) doesn't have a reason? If you don't like Prome's explanation and it's (2) or (3), then whether there was a point of contention or not is irrelevant, except that it SHOULD be a point of contention. In my book, making up or having a very weak justification for treating in a different manner two people who do the same thing is a scummy thing (which is the mindset I find myself in at the moment, that yes, what he did was scummy because I don't buy that justification) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:44 sandroba wrote: So you think WoS shows some sort of curiousity or curious question, especially concerning you, around that time?I actually don't have a problem with prom/wos interaction in particular, that first post and fishing for hapa's comment on it is what fells weird and scripted to me. I'd like to hear from hapa if he thinks it felt fake too. Beyond dat, any gold mined from entrance posts? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 04:55 sandroba wrote: Okeedoke. Maybe we're working in two directions here. I'm mostly poking at the VE/Prome interaction, not a WoS/Prome interaction.He doesn't care about me at that time, as there is no reason to. The points he raises about prom's post later pretty much are the same thoughts I had when I read it, so I don't think he merits my attention so far. Nothing besides prom and maaaybe gonzaw. VE asks Prome why Prome kinda on VE's case about saying you're not gonna respond to pressure, bla bla, whatever, but is NOT on WoS's case when WoS says you're not gonna respond to pressure, bla bla, whatever. Prome says On January 21 2014 11:52 Promethelax wrote: If you don't think WoS cares about you, and I pretty much agree that he's not racking his brain for magical Sandroba thoughts, then you think Promethelax is manufacturing his distinction, given that WoS isn't actually curious about you or anything? Or you simply don't care about this Prome/VE interaction at all, or don't care about Prome's reasons, or any other "I am Sandroba and I don't really put much stock into this VE/Prome stuff"WoS had a question that feels curious, in my experience curious people are more often town than scum. VE felt fluffy. WoS felt curious. Reasonable? No. True? Yes. Often accurate? Yes. I'm not looking at WoS with this, or WoS/Prome, so much as I'm trying to zero in on the singular post by Prome where he says WoS asks this curious question which I cannot find. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:35 gonzaw wrote: Can't speak for holy, but with me, it's that given the full menu of anything anyone could be doing, discussion of Foolishness's alignment doesn't seem like a good idea to me.Then you have people like Holy or austin saying "Leave Foo alone! You can't do anything until he posts more!". That is what I call bullshit. I don't personally feel confident about reading THOSE 3-4 posts as alignment indicative, and don't feel comfortable with reading Foolishness right now. I don't understand anyone else feeling like the BEST read they can get on some scummy dudes is Foolishness. Mainly though, it seems like...good material for scum to post on. Weigh in that he's town, scum, a crocodile, whatever. You can say whatever you want about Foolishness, discuss his alignment until you're blue in the face, but really it comes down to "I think this thing about these 3-4 trolly/nothingposts." Given that, I think it's a more productive topic for scum (they get to post, give reads, but I don't anticipate anyone being lynched later on based primarily/heavily on whatever stance they took on Foolishness right at this second), than it is for town. That's why I don't think discussion should be centered on Foolishness, or heavily concerned with him. I care somewhat about him and his posting, but mainly it feels like a topic that allows mafia to freely post and keep discussion on Foolishness. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:58 kitaman27 wrote: Right now just in general. Usually I have a list of things to go back and look for, and this would be on it, but I have not parsed through people who have been super super Foo-focused to see if any look particularly red.Is this directed at any individual in specific or are you just suggesting that the opportunity is there? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:05 gonzaw wrote: The only game I've played with town Foolishness, I was scum. He and marv flung shit at each other for a while, we/I stoked the fires heavily, and we won a flawless victory. I have never seen miraculous town foolishness, and I'm also an idiot sometimes, so yeah...I'm happy to go against Foolishness as scum. ESPECIALLY in an all-vanilla game, if someone is really a problem you can shoot them and never worry about a doc or getting watched or anything else.The thing is, that when it comes down to Foo', his 3-4 posts are indeed alignment indicative. I also feel, that if Foo is town, unless there is a huge town mob against him they wouldn't really think about going against him. I mean, Town Foo is Town Foo, he'll get those scummers. Would you, as scum, freely go against a Town Foo, for Town Foo later to catch you and crucify you? If Foo is somehow town, then he did leave himself open for scum to have "good material to post on", but I don't think a scummer would feel so confident on going against him like he'd do any random lurker from any other random game. Also, at the very worst, follow this maxim: Sheep marv  Anyways....I kind of feel biased towards this whole "scum Foo" thing, maybe with my VE and Holy reads as well (which interestingly are related to the Foolishness thing as well). I would appreciate new takes on those 2 from other people. I actually like point 2 on holy's post about hapa (the backpedaling) and kinda sorta like the contradictory NO LURKERS --> why you guys voting this lurker/that lurker/any lurker stuff. Mainly still just want to see him and hapa chatting in a vacuum right now though. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:24 gonzaw wrote: Yup, Personality 2.Which game are you talking about? I think maybe you are talking about Personality Mafia 2? I put that filter in the links I posted before. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:33 marvellosity wrote: Fair enough. We're keying in on different questions. I'm kind of pro-stupid/easy question biased, but yeah, those are relatively simple and aren't in line with the ones I'm noticing. I was more focused on particular points where he really appears to be questioning things I think a townie would be questioning, or is looking at something I think deserves looking at. On a whole, not all the questions fit that mold. austin: I said I was ok with this explanation originally, but mulling it over it doesn't make much sense to me. Kinda weakly attacks me on a dumb basis, and the defence posts? People of either alignment are gonna make comments about how I play (early) Day 1 Anyways the bolded was one of the questions I was talking about. I find it hard to describe but meh. It's like leading by giving options... just weird phrasing. Just a really odd way of asking Wave about his lacklustre start, don't you think? Obvious and leading. Again obvious and leading. Again, it's giving binary options... like providing a wrong and right answer. None of these by themselves really suggests that much, but there's so many of them. All leading, or weirdly phrased, or kinda obvious questions. Odd. What I actually find suspicious of kita in light of recent posts is how he's attacking gonzaw. gonzaw has been looking pretty town to me lately, he's eager, lots of big posts, he's commenting on a lot of players, he's suspicious of a lot of players with decent grounds, and yet kita is nitpicking at him for his vote on Foolish compared to kita's. That's unnatural and it's not how I'm viewing the game and it doesn't feel right at all. For me, there's enough other stuff in there that I don't mind those questions terribly. The VE/hapa bit that you note is obvious and leading, I'm alright with the fact that Kita answers VE's question, has been reading VE and hapa's exchange, and asks VE about a particular facet of a hapa read. The other ones not quite so much, but overall I found enough questions that i LIKE in his posts to discount the ones that are weak and either don't go anywhere or yell THIS ISN'T A QUESTION, I'M JUST MAKING A STATEMENT WITH A ? AT THE END | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:40 marvellosity wrote: Not more than most of the game. I didn't love his continued hammering on foolishness when nothing really new was entering the thread, but I really do actually like that post on HolyFlare. Do you think gonzaw is suspicious at the moment austin? Apparently people who bring up HolyFlare out of the blue = people who get less suspicious to austin. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:55 marvellosity wrote: gonzaw was On January 22 2014 07:57 marvellosity wrote: snicker | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:01 marvellosity wrote: Let your freak flag fly, sir. If tentacles are your thing, so be it.austin. ... | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:26 gonzaw wrote: Dunno right now. Usually pretty late to make up my mind and not a big vote swapper.austin, marv, who do you want to lynch this D1 right now? Or maybe you don't have enough info to decide that yet? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: Anything in particular that sandro posted within the last little bit to have you move him up this way? A lot of your other reads are spelled out, sandro and I are lumped together.Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I think you're missing WoS | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Gonzaw, I don't think we can be sure what nobody defending HolyFlare means, but I think in the bigger context of this game, we can't get too much from that. Nobody is defending Foolishness either (I might, yeah, think I will), nobody really popped up to defend WoS or Prome while they were getting more attention, and for the most part it's people dropping off "x is scummy" after they've posted more, not actively pushing "WoS or Prome super town." Just not a ton of defending this game in general, imo. Gonzaw, 2 question to start off since you're active right now. On January 23 2014 03:10 gonzaw wrote: You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish? Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier?You know, I'm kind of serious with this Foolishness stuff. Does any one of you have anything to say about him? Basically: 1)Voting WOS, wanting to lynch other guys, but never change his vote and goes AFK 2)Seeming contradiction, since he almost thought I was scummy scum because I "did" something similar 3)People seemed to find him town because they agreed with him. But right now, apparently town sentiment against WOS and Prome dropped, so what makes that post of him townie now? 4)Remember the time he made a horrible entrance to the game making a scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:15 gonzaw wrote: Not pointless. You want to lynch Foolishness, either a bunch or to a decent degree.austin, it's not time for you to make pointless questions to me + Show Spoiler + really? Why would I explicitly make that meta case against him, and explicitely MENTION THE POSTS THEMSELVES, if I didn't think the "scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads" makes him scum Foo? Have you read my posts at all? You've been waffling around ever since I remember austin. I'm not comfortable with that. You've got some problems with his play. Looking at Parallel Worlds, i do not see the same stuff there as here. scumFoolishness there wasn't trolly, dropping dumb votes, etc. At the very least, I take issue with 1 and 4 above in your summary of bad things about Foolishness. 3 is a perfectly legitimate question for anyone who was townie on Foolishness because of his reads in particular. I don't want to lynch Foolishness today. The second question is REAL, because I'm looking elsewhere, and I want to talk. This will go somewhere. If nothing else, I'm here and posting and you want that so please answer and let's chat. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Small game, not overly themed. You were shot N1 by Sandroba in the game. Scum team was Sandroba/ShiaoPi/?. I was a watcher, watched you N1, saw Sandroba shoot you. On D2 I tried to buddy up to Sandroba rather than dunk him as mafia. This caused some problems later on in the game for me. Name that game! On January 23 2014 04:19 WaveofShadow wrote: LET US BEGIN TO CHAT! YES? (I will have to pause shortly for an interview thing, but oh well)Yup. What's cookin'? Random unrelated thoughts: I'm bothered by the fact that I'm not bothered by marv this game. Every game I've ever played with him he's been town and I often don't trust him for a while before he calls me dumb and then I do, but this game it hasn't happened. Can't tell if it's because marv is lurkier and done less than usual and/or because he has no need to 'take over' in a game like this with multiple people who can lead. Regarding the Holy replacement: I REALLY WISH people would not talk about being replaced in thread---it essentially artificially makes us give up what may or may not be a valid lynch target today and messes with the game. Anything OVERTLY scummy from marv, or just the general worry? I don't share your worry about Foolishness right now, but I do about Sandroba. Working on that, because there are very few scumgames but the town filters I'm reading are much more involved, except generally more involved as far as planning and policy and whatnot is concerned, less him being very involved in reads and discussion (so not perfectly applicable to this game). The only worry I have on Foolishness is his putting Sandroba up at townie-neutral for getting active, when Sandroba was really just posting on one subject and it wasn't a boatload of new thoughts/info. Anyway, you should also ask me some questions. I know I only have the one about marv here right now, but poke me! | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:26 gonzaw wrote: No no, I want you to answer "Yeah, doing nothing totally scummy" and then maybe look at Sandro for me, despite you were worried about people swinging votes elsewhere.That post of his is really bad. Total waffle fluff about Holy and WOS, then a completely pointless question. Like really pointless: Don't see how me answering this question at this point has any bearing at all with what's going on, and more importantly with what that post he quoted. It's like a fluff question Hapa or WOS would make early D1, not a question you'd make very late D1 when you have so much other stuff to choose from (you can filter dive me to get info if you want), and there is basically no lynch set in stone. It's some speculative question that doesn't do anything. You want me to answer "Oh, if Hapa did NOTHING, made no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, yes he'd be scummier!"? What will you do with that answer? This proves you haven't been reading the thread at all then? This is literally answered in that huge post I made 20 hours ago. I also don't remember him taking a stance on anybody. I think he FoSed Prome? He FoSed Holy at some point, or he agreed with Hapa's post or something. It's a fine question for a time where "nothing is set in stone" if I don't like lynching Foolishness, am unsure what to do with Holy replacing, am cool with WoS after checking his filter, am still pretty cool on Kita, and haven't fully analyzed Prome hard. Marv is somewhat creepy but not the lynch, blah blah. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:30 gonzaw wrote: I wasn't around for Liar Game. I was around for scum Foolishness in Parallel Worlds. There I see more real posts, much less trolly stuff, from Scum Foolishness, before pressure really on him and after. People are also drawing on Parallel Worlds for the "Big Post" thing, because Foolishness made a big "direct-the-thread" post there once under pressure, similar to his post here, and what I believe he did in AFK Champions Mafia on that other site.This literally answers your question austin. I don't know that Liar Game is a great game to pull a meta from, given how HEAVILY themed it was and the way that voting worked that game. I know you remember it better than I. Parallel Worlds also pretty heavily themed, but the lynch mechanics were, I would argue, more normal than in Liar Game. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:46 gonzaw wrote: There's a whole heck of a lot of people I haven't mentioned between then and now, he's one of em. That list is what, 2/3 or more of players in the game? Somewhere around there? He's particular in that I mentioned him before, I know. Right now I'm elsewhere.Actually, if you want to chat, let's chat austin. So, what about Holy? You mentioned this right after I made my "case" against him and Hapa made some points against him as well (which you agreed here). So? You never mention him again. You don't mention him right now. What's up with you and Foolishness? Okay, apparently you don't agree with my meta case (for some reason). Okay, that's not too bad I guess. But what about his actual first posts? You think they are GOOD? You only defend him against me attacking him for being "trolly" and the meta case, but what do you think about those posts he made? I don't care about them. They don't make him town. I don't think they make him mafia. A couple SUPER OVERTLY trolly posts are posts that I read as "trolly", not as town or scum. I see more meat from scum Foolishness in Parallel Worlds than I do here, have not read Liar Game in years. I think his long list post is...okay. It's not as pushy as his Parallel Worlds list post, which doesn't count for terribly much. He doesn't blow anyone's socks off with any read, there's nothing damning/sanctifying about anyone that nobody else had seen, which would make the post a little better/worse depending on what he found, but I'm fine with it in general EXCEPT that the section on sandro and I is odd to me. Everyone else has pretty particular reasons, sandro and I are lumped together and I don't really agree with him that sandro had gotten post-happy within the recent pages before Foolishness posted his big thing. See my question to Foolishness about the sandro read in my filter. Ignoring the fact this is all fluffy "oh, I don't want to talk about Foolishness because scum are surely going to discuss Foolishness!", what about now? Nobody gives a shit about Foo right now. Only WOS and VE briefly discussed him, nothing more. So I guess there are no "mafia freely posting and keeping discussion on Foolishness" right? If so it completely invalidates this "defense" of him (or rather, avoidance of making a read on him), so you could as well start having a discussion centered on Foolishness. You can start by, like, posting what you think of his 2 "big" posts, and his reads and stuff. His second sizeable post...I don't love? His HolyFlare section is pure mush, maybe the mushiest statement in his two large posts. At this moment I feel that Promethelax or HolyFlare should be lynched today. Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that. HolyFlare's defense did feel a bit contrived and forced? He did bring up some good points but at the same time I don't feel like he said all that much. That may just be confirmation bias at this point though. not really what I would expect from anyone pushing a read, or one of his two lynch candidates. Gonzaw's post on HF good, this point good, HF's defense felt contrived and forced, except he made good points, except he didn't say much, except maybe it's just confirmation bias. That's very very very limp-wristed.A NUMBER of people posted questions to him concerning his large reads post, and he really only answered about WoS and HF, also don't love that. So, first big post I'm not scummy on him for. Second big post I don't love as a post, the HF bit is the longest and is pure mush, but...whatever. I'm not seeing Foolishness scum as heavily as you are.No, not wrong. He's got posts that aren't pure troll, although they're just setup chat - + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:13 Foolishness wrote: Okay so we choose someone to lynch here today. If you are in the world where you're not lynching (and voting to swap) you should be voting to swap a person who you think is innocent. Swap powers should be used to get innocent people into the swap world, and mafia into the lynch world. Presumably we can only vote for people in our world? On December 12 2012 09:20 Foolishness wrote: Honestly we should just not swap players at all if we can help it. those two into the first bit about not swapping in the post you brought up, which IS more trolly Moreover, that post IS trolly. But look at the followup. He does dick all forever with his marv comment and vote. He doesn't really respond to anything but marv for almost 24 hours until he starts talking with Palmar in more detail (he gives crappy little posts to Keirathi and marv in response, not like his response here). There's a decent amount of posting, even shitty posting, trying to get something done. Here there's no posting trying to get anything done. His response/explanation post (the second big one), doesn't go anywhere, doesn't push anything, just waffles around. WHICH SOUNDS PARTICULARLY SCUMMY, EH? But in a game where there hasn't been huge pushes on people yet, it looks different enough from the way he was actually trying to do a thing, even lazily trying to do a thing, in that game. Anyways, you seem to be making a meta case FOR his posts not being scummy. Does that mean you think his early 3 posts were not scummy? Why austin? Everybody basically agrees they are somewhat scummy. Why are you DEFENDING those posts of his via some weird meta? I think anyone making a read of those posts is being silly. I don't care if someone starts with a few trolly posts, at all. If those posts tell me ANYTHING important, then I should be examined. Others may get something from them, but I don't at all. To me, they're trolly posts, they don't mean anything, and I disagree that scum Foolishness is a big trollface at the start of games.Take those posts for what they are, posts from a player playing this game. What do they tell you? Why do you take issue with 1? You think it doesn't matter that Foo has his vote on a guy he doesn't want to lynch? And about 3, what do you believe? Yes, it's a perfectly legitimate question, so please answer it austin, don't wait for others to do so for you Also, what's up with you and chatting? I thought WOS had an obsession with it, but you seem to be OCD about it wtf I'm a big chatter recently. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:05 gonzaw wrote: No no. Liar Game was the question with the two answers, and depending on answers, only part of the game could be lynched on any given day? With multiple scum factions? I don't care about vanilla-ness, I care about the fact that the basic setup of liar game was, as I remember it, different in multiple ways than the setup here, in terms of basic factions, voting, etc.You would say that a heavily themed game would make a Scum Foolishness be MORE aggressive/confident than in an All-Vanilla game, or the opposite austin? I don't really see a contradiction with a Scum Foo feeling more "intimidated", or (maybe a better term) "not knowing what to do" (thus not really posting much "real posts" with "less trolly stuff") in an All-Vanilla game where there is no setup discussion, no wacky mechanics, no PMs, to hide in, than in a Heavily Themed game where there is. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:20 Foolishness wrote: I am absolutely not here and posting. I only just now get back and active after a long period gone.To explain Austin, at the time I made that post where you and sandroba are together, you and him had both shown up to the thread and posted a couple times, but that was it. My thinking was that, "okay, as long as these guys are here and continue to post they should be town". This especially applies to sandroba because he is known for being really inactive as mafia. You're here and posting, should be obvious that you are town. He's not here and not posting, and that speaks volumes for him. Driving now, ~40ish til at comp | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For all his catching up, that's all he did. His posts and responses to things never really push anything FORWARD. He votes kita WHILE CATCHING UP, for something Kita posted ~22 hours previously, covers some other stuff, and never returns to kita once he's caught up (except to tell kita yeah, he'll be posting probably). He talks about Foolishness's large post to say that Foolish is townier, but his reads are kind of wrong and that's worrying. He's not a good lynch but he's not townie. The post has been beat to death, but all he does is give a wishy washy summary of his own thoughts, calls foolishness a bad lynch for today (when he appears to want kita lynched), and just...he doesn't get INVOLVED. He reads like he really was catching up. He doesn't read like he's catching up AND doing anything else. He's not pushing kita. He's not even coming back to summarize why kita is mafia once he's finished rereading. He's just happy with a vote based on 22 hour old posts, making some mush comments about other things going on, and then that's it. Possibly biased by the recent LoL-themed game, but Prome returning there PUSHED his reads that he made while catching up, and kept poking people when he was caught up. Here, Prome's goal reads more like just catching up, and then not doing anything else. Still fine with sandro lynch. Still don't want to lynch Foolishness, but I think marv has legitimate points concerning Foolishness's thoughts on sandro, and I don't LOVE his conclusions about my mafia play. I dunno if anyone else who has played with scumaustin thinks differently, but I've generally found that I can post long/spammy stuff while mafia as well. There was a long spammy read of Gonzaw as town in Aperture 2 off the top of my head, but generally I don't think post length and whatnot is a tell for me? I dunno, just don't love that he came to a conclusion about my mafia play that I disagree with. Need to read HF | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:05 gonzaw wrote: He's not the only person to not vote yet, and I don't think there's an hourly post requirement. Also if two people have to replace out of a game in which we got like a month of notice and were told to be available.... (or at least sandro got that notice)He didn't vote and has been AFK for like 30 hours...? I don't want to lynch HF. He was poking at some stuff I liked being poked at (prome on WoS/VE), I like his posts at Gonzaw regarding Foolishness. I particularly like this post On January 22 2014 06:18 Holyflare wrote: How about answering the posts directed at you so I can get into your brainz. Not a 100% townie thing, but I think very very very very likely that this is not a post mafia makes. Doesn't joke, wants Gonzaw to really respond about Foolishness stuff (one of the two things HF seemed interested/involved in), and it's just mildly jokey. I like it for town. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:05 gonzaw wrote: I, too, would be willing to vote for "that creepy feeling that the thread is giving off right now", but I don't think it's a valid vote option.It's like....first people are a little suspicious of Prome (VE and Foo call him scum, etc). Then everybody has town reads on Prome. But now that the lynch is coming, suddenly everybody jumps on the Prome bandwagon, when he isn't even here to defend himself (Foo, kita and now austin, and maybe somebody else I forgot). I'm not quite comfortable with that. On January 23 2014 07:11 gonzaw wrote: Austin is not obvs town, but he's working his way there. You are misremembering some things about his play, part of the reason you're scummy on him is that his reads differ from yours, which isn't definitively scummy or townie until people actually flip, and you may not have read some recent games of his.LOL MANCHESTER UNITED ....sorry couldn't contain myself  While I read Prome, please someone comment about austin. At least tell me I'm an idiot and he's obvs town like Foo did | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:14 gonzaw wrote: Part of the reasons I was scummy on you was the fact you had 0 scumreads 4 hours before D1 ended, remember? Prome is your 1st scum read in this whole game basically you may not have read some recent games of his. Unless I see something I'm super scummy on or interested in, I think that's kinda how I want to play. LXIII was a different setup because I didn't HAVE to lynch anyone D1, but you can read my filter there AND if you check the game all the complaints from people about my lack of scumhunting. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275 Thug Life I replaced in, so again, somewhat different, but iirc on D2 I'm mainly yelling about why the lynch candidates are NOT mafia, but don't present a solid other option for lynch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429897 Not that mafia-me is SUPER DUPER SCUMHUNTY on D1, but at the very least, I think some recent games that we weren't in together are SOMEWHAT similar to this one, and I was town. It's a matter for after the lynch probably, unless you want to spend time now looking at em. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:23 sandroba wrote: His filters are markedly different from the two games, yes. But that's just a single game and he replaced into PYP LOL but didn't here. I feel the exact same way about the difference, but I discount that as solid evidence more than you seem to.What more do I need to say? The man is scum. I could go on and talk about other people that might be scum, but I'd rather we save it for after we lynched the scum that's certain. You basically just chopped out a single thing that Prome has done this game, pasted it next to a thing from one past game, went NINETY FIVE PERCENT SCUM. All while, at least to me, you two are the leading candidates for lynch. Talking about someone else who might be scum, or talking about why Prome is scum beyond his kita vote + comparison to a game he replaced into, might go a ways towards making people more convinced on Prome or less convinced on you. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:30 Promethelax wrote: Why?Gah! This fucking post. Austin is so disconnected from this game. I know it consolidation time so I don't want to start a new thing on Austin but fuck do I want to lynch him based on this post. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
marv, you just saying stuff, or you actually believe that sandroba isn't hanging because of Foolishness? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:41 marvellosity wrote: I read this to indicate "I want to lynch sandroba but people won't lynch him because foolishness, for whatever reason, does not want to lynch him"There's two very smelly people on the Prome wagon and sandroba aint flying because mysteriously he's not a good lynch to fool ##unvote ##vote: Foolishness | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
choo | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:51 kitaman27 wrote: I'm fine with either, but we need people OFF foolishness in order to lynch anyone else.I'm happy where I am, so you should join me. So right now, the deciding factor is people ON foolishness, and who they are willing to move to. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote: Agree/disagree with the paragraphs below that?There's no way this sandroba lynch is good. Also "Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin For all his catching up, that's all he did. His posts and responses to things never really push anything FORWARD. He votes kita WHILE CATCHING UP, for something Kita posted ~22 hours previously, covers some other stuff, and never returns to kita once he's caught up (except to tell kita yeah, he'll be posting probably). He talks about Foolishness's large post to say that Foolish is townier, but his reads are kind of wrong and that's worrying. He's not a good lynch but he's not townie. The post has been beat to death, but all he does is give a wishy washy summary of his own thoughts, calls foolishness a bad lynch for today (when he appears to want kita lynched), and just...he doesn't get INVOLVED. He reads like he really was catching up. He doesn't read like he's catching up AND doing anything else. He's not pushing kita. He's not even coming back to summarize why kita is mafia once he's finished rereading. He's just happy with a vote based on 22 hour old posts, making some mush comments about other things going on, and then that's it. Possibly biased by the recent LoL-themed game, but Prome returning there PUSHED his reads that he made while catching up, and kept poking people when he was caught up. Here, Prome's goal reads more like just catching up, and then not doing anything else. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
It wasn't D1 and D1 seems super different cuz you don't want to lose scumbuddies, but...there are enough crafty fellas in this game that I worry about shifting 7-8 reads based on the votes/lynch. Not because I don't agree, but because 1-2 of those shifts are probably scumbuddies and we'll be wrong later. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
It makes me want more last minute shennanies though. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I was scummy on prome, but ESPECIALLY given sandro's weak vote on prome (again, PYP LOL featured a SUPER DIFFERENT prome but was also not a great match to draw 1:1 from), prome looks a little better I was townie on foolish, but the biggest problem I had with him was his sandro stuff, and now sandro is mafia I was worried about marv, but marv's vote and being on foolish about sandro makes him look real good But the moral, I suppose, is dm; ls. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:53 gonzaw wrote: If the two were scum though, I'd HOPE that sandro would...put a little more into that post?He did show up EXACTLY after sandro voted him, and did in fact just go against Foolishness instead of being suspicious of the super suspiciously sketchy vote on him by the lurker that was AFK the whole game which he bowed to policy lynch. Meh. Makes a nice conspiracy theory lol It was a really weak callout, I'd already mentioned the difference between here prome and PYP prome, but sandro just grabs that, dumps a single post, and dips. He got called on it too. I know sandro is lazy as mafia, but...that's a REALLY lazy way to either get sandro cred when prome flips (because I think at that point it looked like votes were moving to prome and he might be the lynch), or get prome cred when sand flips. The first actually messes with my head more, because I could understand lazy sandro wanting to look okay if prome was going to be the lynch. I can't understand lazy sandro trying to set prome up as lookin' good at that point. Hmmmm. Will have to look at that time, I think it was just prome's third or so vote on him, but thread sentiment may have LOOKED really anti-prome. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But yeah, the way the switches were working, I don't think ANYONE could see thread sentiment. I would happily have lynched someone else with 5 minutes to go, don't think I even voted until right towards deadline. I think the push was sudden enough that mafia either hops on or not, but only out of gut reaction, not because they could really see where things were headed. I mean, it was fast enough that, apart from foolishness, there wasn't really any push BACK that I saw. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
 ) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: kk, I know there's a bunch more time, so no biggie. Also, I think I can up the percentage to way higher than 60Probably austin. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Nuuuuuuuuuuuuu. If you're still around, lemme know. Otherwise I'll catch you later if alive. You know I'm generally not "crapping on people from outer space", and I can maybe even promise a paint pic or two.It's fine, I'm done with this game. Honestly people are too tunneled in and there's literally nothing I can do. When I try and participate it is shat on, when I try and have conversations with people it's scum claiming, I have literally no will left to play this game. Sorry austin, you didn't make it. I still don't think Toad nee Holy is mafia. Gonzaw, read that post about picking your brainz. The leadup to it and then the post. You see that set of posts coming from a mafia member? I think people are reading way too much into votes and associations. You're fine to suspect me if you want, or find my vote the "most likely to be mafia" out of the votes on sand, fine. But you need to square that with the rest of my filter, I think. Like half of sand's filter is responses to me over prome/WoS/VE (AMG IS HE QUESTIONING SAND OR ARE THEY JUST PLAYING AROUND AND SCUMBUDDIES!?). I believe I'm also the first to have trouble with Foolishness's mention of sandroba in his list of reads, where he says sand is townier for getting active (possibly wrong there, but think it was me). So if you want a sand/me team, or a sand/foolish/me team, that's a whole heck of a lot of interaction between the team you're playing around at. If you really want to push that idea, it's super fine. But there's a LOT of throwing around scumteams and crap based off nothing more than votes and supposition, with very very little consideration of actual posting to back stuff up. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote: Oh, I'm not worried about being lynched or looking scummy or whatever.Don't worry austin. If it comes down to trying to make a case for you being town, I think we can work something out. I'm concerned about people posting scumteams based of NOTHING but votes and timing, without any consideration for filters or anything. Heck, I'd rather someone post a team and then just hammer at me and call me scum. At least then they have conviction and are pushing a read or...some sort of read. People just posting "this could maybe be the team, /out" is useless filler. Yes. It turns out there are other mafia, and any of us could be those people. But if you're not gonna push a team as a real idea, or not gonna read filters, then you're just posting to post. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote: It's more you guys are chatting, about you and foolishness. Then things stray away. In that post he tries to pull you back on track, make sure you guys keep talking about Foolishness/your read on Foolishness, but also sort of halfway joking as he does it.Ehmm..I dunno? Like, I guess I could see it come from a mafia member. Is it because it says "brainz" and not "brain"? I don't really want to put too much emphasis on that thing. I've passed scum as town because of that type of posts before; if I don't believe it comes from town 100% or my gut tells it to, then I'm wary to straight up ignore Holy/Toad because of it. Read the full progression of you/him talking. He starts by asking why you want a foolishness lynch over sandroba, given them both lurking pretty much equally. Actively saying WHY ARE YOU VOTING THIS UNKNOWN GUY OVER A NOW-KNOWN SCUMMER right off the bat. Staying on your nuts. Responding to other people, marv and kita, about you, pretty clearly focused on you and foolishness. He seems to have actually read your posts on foolishness, and to have some legitimate, thought out, questions for you concerning that read. Sandroba entirely falls out of the picture after that first post, but his questions read, to me, like a townie pursuing something. When you sort of stray away and joke with hapa that HF is scum, HF almost...take offense, and tries to get you to keep talking to him about your foolishness posts (yes, you can spin that bit both ways, as HF suddenly not liking being called mafia, etc.) In his post where he says he replaces out, he brings up sandroba again Like I said at the start, you shouldn't let people who get better later "sandroba AND foolishness (although he has posted now)" sit back, they should be entirely pressured. Sandroba even went so far as to get a good ++ (I think?) from foolishness??? despite his less than 1 page filter with nothing contributary in. His vote is less sexy, as his scum targets are focused on you and people's response to your post on him ( you = gonzaw, him = HF). He doesn't mention sandroba as a possible vote. As mafia, I'd almost...expect that? List of 3 guys, all for one reason, he COULD throw sand in there somehow, just with foolishness getting flak and sand not. Overall, the way that he goes back and forth with you, especially that one single post, and his kind of repeated questioning about why you're on foolishness and not sandroba, make me think he's unlikely mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:51 WaveofShadow wrote: VERY WELL, CITIZEN. YOU MAY BE ON YOUR WAY.Sorry austin, it's what I do sometimes. I can't say there won't be more of it from me, but at the very least it'll be interspersed with 'better' stuff. I think a couple people were doing it, and it's just...there's a lot of it. Lots and lots and lots of vote talk, timing talk, and very little consideration for votes PLUS FILTERS. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) Creating a list of "safe" people when we're ~50 hours til we even lynch anyone is sillypants, imo (2) Foolishness should not be on any "safe" list Consider:
Sandroba isn't posting. Foolishness thinks this speaks volumes, thinks a sandroba that stays afk is troubling, but overall, when sandroba DOES EXACTLY WHAT SCUM SANDROBA TENDS TO DO, foolishness wants to lynch other people instead. Foolishness never REALLY invests effort in pushing things off Sandroba. He tries to make me look bad by mentioning I was okay voting prome. He half-ass calls sandro's analysis of prome solid and well-researched. But he doesn't tell anyone "if you think sandro and prome are both scum, what do you think of sandroba voting prome?" which seems like a thing you might ask. Yes, he has posted reasonable, rational stuff today. But in terms of "people who look pewpy for their interactions with/posts concerning sandroba," Foolishness is, imo, the worst off. His behavior around the lynch does not improve that. You CAN read the pre-lynch stuff as them being on opposite teams, because wouldn't Foolishness try HARDER to save a scumbuddy? Except things were really murky until a couple minutes before lynch. Everyone kept saying they were WILLING to lynch x and y and sandroba and chicken nuggets and whatnot, but nobody was really committed, so it was difficult for Foolishness, of either alignment, to determine how the lynch would come out. THIS THOUGHT TURNED OUT WAY TOO LONG BUT HOLY BALLS DON'T MAGICALLY DETERMINE FOOLISHNESS IS SAFE. He looks the worst, to me, and probably to you, based on his D1 interactions with/read on Sandroba. For all the talk of VE not being around at lynch, not doing anything, etc, foolishness is around and doing something, which is mainly chiming in to say LYNCH PROME AND NOT SANDROBA EXCEPT I'M NOT GOING BALLS DEEP ON TRYING TO SWAP THIS LYNCH. I was townie on him yesterday. I'm not sure on him right now. But I think anyone just reading his long posts about votes and whatnot is missing some other stuff. I promise I have more thoughts than "Don't sleep on foolishness" but this just turned long | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 07:09 marvellosity wrote: It hasn't made thread unreadable. But i THINK there are some good good posts coming from odd angles that...it drowned out. I was only halfway paying attention and it can go on the list of THINGS I THINK ARE IMPORTANT BUT RARELY FOLLOW THROUGH ON.Who do you think is particularly guilty? Is anyone particularly guilty of it also scummy for it? Do you think it's made the thread unreadable or something? I will recheck if I'm alive tomorrow. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 07:16 gonzaw wrote: If I say toad is town, then mafia is ... two not toads and not mes.Anyways, following up on marv, austin. Right now, I'm here: VE scum One of Toad/WOS scum. If you say Toad is town, then WOS is scum? That'd be from my POV. From your POV, how do you view it? Do you view it the same, and thus now think WOS is scum? If not...then kita? Or maybe you are torn between kita/WOS? Or something? You are super duper duper unlikely, I think. I've been laughing this whole time because if this were around a year ago, everyone would be saying "GONZAW WAS SCUM IN LIAR GAME AND LOOKED TOWNIE AND POSTED A LOT AND HE'S DOING THAT HERE SO HE'S MAFIA AGAIN." Out of the remainder, I want to actually talk with VE before I really come down on him. I think prome is less likely than yesterday, and he's currently not someone I'd lynch tomorrow. I think Foolishness is still decently likely but I need to think more about that. I need to reconsider Kita, but I haven't gotten anything very scummy off him. I wish I'd kept chatting with WoS yesterday, neither one of us really followed through, and I think BOTH of us should look a little scummy for that. So right now, I'm wishy washy! It's N1. We lynched mafia D1. We have 48 hours to lynch. I'm just not super concerned with a list of suspects right now, as odd as that sounds, but I want to pick VE's brain and chat with him, want people not to sleep on Foolishness, and need to make good on looking back on some things I nag people about. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 07:40 gonzaw wrote: I think there is good reason not to sleep on him. I just can't get over the way he called sandro town and the way he justified that ----> his play towards deadline. For someone who thinks BOTH prome and sandro are likely mafia, he's doing a lot of work while not doing a lot of work to shift the lynch onto prome and not sandro, and his ONLY response to sandro returning after a mystical journey in the AFK wilderness is to say that sandro had done his research (again, see my posts or see WoS's posts for why sandro's comparison was not spectacular ioo (ioos?)). Well austin, if you put it that way, you do seem to make me feel guilty of my town read on Foo Gotta admit I didn't reread his filter. But meh what do I care, night ends in a few minutes. If he's scum he just fucked himself. Don't want to believe scum Foo would play so poorly as scum, while at the same time playing so good (by making townie posts that make sense bla bla bla). Kind of the opposite of what I'd expect scum Foo to be, play good scum, while not playing good. Or something. Ah...memories... Yeah, the pre-lynch stuff is wonky, but we pulled off a wonky lynch. It was very unclear who was going to really get votes between him/prome/sandro, and he just kept chiming in with the same line about prome being better lynch than sandro, and the only other stuff he did was creepy things like imply i was maybe scummy for saying i was willing to lynch prome but lynching sandro, while entirely ignoring that most of my posts were "i'm fine lynching prome or sandro." | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 07:46 Promethelax wrote: I waited like a month to have this game start. Scum better not just get "depressed" and play poorly I think terrible posts followed by good posts is a townie thing from foolish more than a scummy thing. No lie his early posting looked horrible and even worse with a Sand flip but he knows that and looks at the thread and figures he can push through on logic and big posts? I see a scum foolish just lurking himself to death there. It would be a depressing place to be as a scummer. It is one reason I like VE (okay, the only reason I like VE) he has been in the thread and actively talking with us all even if his discussion hasn't been all that productive I see him being more depressed if he is scum. Not that that is a solid reason for a read but it is something I've been keeping in mind. Foolishness has two big posts since the lynch. They're entirely concerned with the timing of votes and whatnot. I still see this as a good place for mafia to hide and just get activity out of speculation. HOWEVER, Foolishness's posts are some of the least speculative of that bunch, he does go into WoS's filter and pull some things out, do a little analysis. But overall, he's very quick to just say that all sandro voters are town, give a list of 4-5 people that need looking out (which is, btw, basically everyone who didn't vote sandro). To me, the actually reads and posts from yesterday are more important than a bunch of speculation on votes and timing, ESPECIALLY when ALL the speculation comes from "you guys have to assume I'm town." If you want, myself or someone else can type up an identical big post in the world where sandroba AND foolishness are town. We can fully explain what votes moved, why, etc. etc. And it'll be based just as much on someone who is unflipped being a particular alignment. Except our post would be bolstered by Foolishness's D1 play. One question, and I'm still lazy so it's not like I can say I've done this, but do you find Foolishness going from terrible posts to good posts to be a town Foolishness trait? Or is that something that mafia Foolishness actually does when under pressure? I don't remember him becoming entirely absent when under suspicion, I'm pretty sure he USUALLY posts some semi-reasonable looking lists of reads, or at least reads reasonable enough that a lot of the thread goes "hey, that looks pretty good." Off the top of my head, he has a decently well-reasoned list post and some followup in Bureaucracy (he was scum), a less-well-reasoned list post and I think some other jazz in Parallel Worlds, and I don't like remembering that Champions Game because it was kinda painful to read. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 07:49 Promethelax wrote: This is the kind of thing that I'm halfway trying to curtail by playing thread police.Just, okay, if Fool is scum and Sand is scum who is the third scum? He would have to have been pushing my lynch head over heels (or be HF) since the only other options were scum lynches. There wasn't a player going ass to the wall crazy to get me lynched besides VE and if he was scum watching the scum lynch on foolish fall apart would he really afk and just hope the lynch shifts to me? Who cares? If Foolishness is scum and Sand is scum WE CAUGHT TWO SCUM. The third scum is...whoever remains alive and has played the scummiest. Could be VE, could be WoS, could be marv (he looks good to me right now, but he poked at foolishness about sandro yesterday and hasn't continued poking about something that i think is relatively relevant). Could be you but super unlikely. It could be ANY of us. I guess I don't care about filling out a 3 man scumteam right now. Like, my comments on Foolishness have NOTHING to do with who a third member might be. My comments on Foolishness are focused on specific things he did yesterday that make HIM look bad to me. I don't care about creating a team on them, I care that Foolishness took actions and made posts which I find scummy. The third scum is a matter for later. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm going to dinner in a sec, but my D2 wishlist currently reads: (1) Get more discussion on Foolishness. Specifically about his D1, then about his play as a whole. I'd like to talk to Foolishness as well, but I will settle for discussion ABOUT him, from more people. (2) Chat with VE. Attempt to keep people from just calling him scum for 60 hours. (3) Chat with marv. About Foolishness/sandro and generally (4) Chat with Kitaman, and get others to talk ABOUT kitaman. A couple posts have mentioned him looking a little worse from the sandro flip (i think?). He has posted some. But overall, just half-following and reading through thread, I don't have a strong sense of him doing stuff recently. That could be entirely wrong, but he's too under the radar for my liking, and I think his alignment and his filter make a good topic of discussion for today. Either we start pressuring him, or he's town and he gets active and gives some good posts, it's a win win to talk about kita more. (5) Actually talk to WoS instead of the aborted chat we had yesterday. (6) Other stuff? I'm playing VERY thread cop this game. It looks like I'm going to continue that way. Sorry if it's annoying, within my head it's a helpful thing as long as I'm not just pooh poohing stuff and not coming up with other things to do or participating heavily myself. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 09:11 marvellosity wrote: I'm curious about how his posting HAS been making sense. Not in that I disagree with that statement, but moreso that his posting is "assume I am town, then look at the votes, here are some sensible statements concerning the votes." austin, seems i maybe answered your question about champions game before i read it, lemme know if you want more. He does followup with some stuff on WoS, but I would categorize the majority of his 2 big posts, which were the majority of his posting during N1, to be...vote stuff. And vote stuff working under the assumption that he's town. It's not like we were lynching during the night, but I don't put as much weight on those posts being sensible, because I don't see why a Foolishness of either alignment can't go "assume I'm town, here's some stuff." Again, I think someone, and I guess maybe I should actually do this, can make sensible "assume Foolishness is mafia, here's some vote stuff" posts. Forget actually should do that, I want to see what that post looks like now and whether it reads roughly as sensible. Does...anything in this rambling bit concern you? That his posts are sensible but they're drawing from an assumption and the majority of the sensibleness is just vote talk. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 09:34 Toadesstern wrote: Two questions for you.I had a townread on him really early on, the rest is adress over clicky! TL;DR: I see no reason for him to be resisting a Sandro lynch as mafia in his position. I do see a reason for him to be resisting a Sandroba lynch as town in his position: Trying to get the best possible lynch he thinks he can get. Sure it could be some super complex strategy into whatever ballsy play but there's no reason to even consider that right now when the simply solution at hand just makes sense and doesn't need your brain to work overtime to somehow make it plausible. I like simple solutions, especially if there's no reason to think otherwise. (1) Do you stand by this even though the actual lynch started 10 minutes before deadline? Sandroba didn't get a third vote until marv with 5 minutes to go, and got hammered with only 4 minutes left. Since you weren't around, even though you have timestamps, I'm not sure you have the full understanding of the speed at which things shifted to sandroba, and so I'm not sure that evaluating how much someone resisted or didn't resist is entirely reliable. (2) At what point do you see Foolishness resisting Sandro's lynch because he wants the best possible lynch from his point of view, i.e., prome? At least for me, I see a mix of comments from Foolishness. I agree that some of his comments are pure "I want the best possible lynch I can get" - + Show Spoiler [from the time of Gonzaw's vote] + On January 23 2014 07:52 Foolishness wrote: Should just do the Promethelax lynch cause that's a lynch for mafia. Sandroba is still iffy On January 23 2014 07:54 Foolishness wrote: I'm probably going to have to anyways so don't worry lol Perhaps I'm just that sure on Promethelax, and in these situations my reads get messed up in my head because of all the pressure. So I default to my strongest read before going on crazy goose chases. But the actual majority of his quotes aren't even that prome is BETTER, it's that the sandro lynch is BAD or the people on it are IMPLICITLY SCUMMY - + Show Spoiler [from same timeframe] + On January 23 2014 07:51 Foolishness wrote: I don't even like the sandroba lynch lol doesn't like sandroba lynch period, even though an afk sand is a scummy sand, sand's absence speaks volumes, etc. On January 23 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote: There is no way the sandroba lynch is good. Despite sand being one of his scummers, his absence speaking volumes, etc.There's no way this sandroba lynch is good. Also "Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin Plus the quote from me on prome without ever mentioning that I've been saying prome or sand for the last hour or so. This is a very, very, very lazy post. If he'd read my posts, he would know that the quote above is not a full summary of my thoughts. On January 23 2014 07:59 Foolishness wrote: This one doesn't say much. He doesn't call prome a good lynch here, doesn't call sand a bad, but now is worried about the specific players swapping. He was townie on me previously, keeps +1ing bits of my posts, but now he's just saying "some players" are joining for "no reason." No specifics. No calling anyone out. The only person he called out was me, and his callout on me is a misrepresentation at best.Well, there are some players who said they were okay with Promethelax but are joining the sandroba vote for no reason. That's everything Foolishness typed in thread during those 10 minutes. I don't know that, looking at his activity from the time the sandro lynch took off, he can really be said to be "trying to get the best possible lynch he can get." He puts 0 effort into convincing anyone to vote Prome at this point, he never says WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING PROME? PROME DID A, B, and C. He just says that Prome is better a couple times, but also just calls the sandro lynch bad, and shadily drops a piece of my posts in there. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 09:54 marvellosity wrote: Not much. It's night, we lynched scum, and we lynched scum in a way that would throw off some of the reads he had on the game as a whole.I'm going to vaguely sidestep your question austin and ask you what you expect townFool to be doing since the lynch? An updated big reads list before the night ends? Maybe. An updated big reads list in general that isn't heavily heavily heavily based on votes? Maybe. I'll admit, no great answer there. On January 24 2014 09:56 marvellosity wrote: I think it's much easier in this case than you're making it seem? Because he's not painting his filter as townie. He's painting a picture with just the VOTES with him as town. He doesn't have to justify past comments, doesn't have to show why he legitimately thought prome was scum when prome looks townier after the flip, all he has to do is take the votes he's been given and weave them in such a way that him being town presents a couple suspects.Being able to assume you're town (when you're mafia) and make extendedly long posts from that perspective that sound natural isn't as easy as you think. I dunno, I pretty much only seem to make extendedly long posts, so I'm not the best judge here. But I find there to be a distinction between a long post assuming you're town and giving all these reads, and a long post in which you set the votes in such a way that you're town and a couple people shake out suspicious. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I know that's not a full read. I know the N1 posts happened. Just trying to see where your mind is at. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 10:13 marvellosity wrote: I know. It was something I had been meaning to dredge up again, but I was focused on finding lynch target between prome and sandro and not on poking at Fool. I liked that you did though, I think I posted something that was just a dinky +1.austin, you should check my filter that was effectively the main reason I was campaigning against Fool towards the end of day 1 if you recall... But I hadn't seen you keep poking at it, whereas I continue to see it as a valid question mark on Foolishness's head. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Just...out of the posts he makes once the thing starts, it turns out he's pretty much equally calling the prome lynch better and pooping from space on the sandro lynch, which is still on a dude he thinks is scummy (just less so). The vote swap itself is a new fact that he could be taking into account, but there's no post where he goes, "I was for this, but the way these votes are going, see A and B and C, I feel uncomfortable now about Sandro being mafia." He hints at that, a little, but he doesn't actually vocalize. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 10:20 marvellosity wrote: I liked his posts bar the sandro thing. I never typed it in thread, but I was thinking that if sandro was actually mafia, Foolishness would look really bad from his early reads post.Given you agreed with my rationale for pushing Foolishness at the time and Fool was a main contender for the lynch (leading for much of it), why on earth were you dismissing Fool and only wanting to lynch between sand and Prome? It wasn't enough to get me to vote him, given all the other crap I was typing calling him town. But once sandro flips, his sandro-related filter looks much much worse. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 10:25 marvellosity wrote: At the start of all this stuff, during the night, my basic argument is HOLY BALLS WHY ARE PEOPLE PUTTING FOOLISHNESS IN THE DO-NOT-LYNCH LIST WHEN THE SANDRO-RELATED BITS OF HIS FILTER ARE SO BAD?So your basic argument is that the sandro stuff is enough to overrule the rest of his filter? I'm less sure that they overrule the rest of his filter than I am that he should be a topic of conversation, or at least that I want to pester people about this and see their thoughts and file everything away for later. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Right after the lynch, "marv looks better," "no wait, remember Liquid City? You were gone most of D1, came back calling out Node and trying to get votes on him late in the day, node WAS scum, marv jumped on the node wagon with like 30-40 minutes to go, then later jumped off, and was also mafia." So I know you're fully willing to jump on a wagon against a scumbuddy if necessary, and scum sandroba appears to be someone a scum team is happy to sacrifice, given his lack of interest in playing the faction. I do think you're townie for now, but fear not, still got a little paranoia in me. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
IF Foolishness is mafia, then mafia Foolishness and mafia Sandroba were both pushing unknown alignment Promethelax yesterday. That combo means very very very very very very very very very likely that Promethelax is town. That also means that the ONLY people voting not-mafia on D1 were Kitaman and HF. Foolishness alignment unknown. Votes not perfectly telling, but WoS and VE both on Foolishness, and if he were mafia and actually looking like he might be lynched, I would expect not just a Foolish push towards votes on Prome, but a vote swap from the other mafia onto Prome. So the possibilities of the third player in a Foolishness/Sandroba/x team really get chopped down and, to me, look like they consist only of Kita. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I just didn't like taking him off the possible list, nor the people who were just saying "Amg recent posts look townie, Foolishness totes town now gaiz" without seeming to consider his full filter in light of the flip. He's a possibility, not guaranteed red, but I just like seeing more people posting on him and having thoughts based on the full filter. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:41 gonzaw wrote: Sure, funky on both accounts, but then that doesn't get us anywhere.There's also the fact that Foo had 6 votes on him (2nd guy had 3), and he's just calm discussing stuff with people and talking about his sandro read and shit, 10 minutes before deadline. Weird if he's town (like...try to prevent your own lynch dude wtf), but much weirder if he's scum, UNLESS it's some preplanned scum bullshit bus where Foo takes the fall D1 for some reason or some shit. I don't think it's weirder for scum, scum have more control over the lynch because they can work in concert, so regardless of what the plan is, you can actually have a plan in place to hopefully not have yourself get lynched. And while prome only had 3 votes, I had been clear that I wanted prome/sandro over foolishness, and, as things were shaping up, I was going to need to vote prome to hope to have any effect on the lynch. That makes it like...6/4/1 or whatever, meaning another two swaps and everything groovy, and you could guarantee one if any of the Foolishness voters were also scum. I think....I think I should stop going this route and just stick to HEY EVERYBODY HERE'S SOME WEIRD STUFF TALK ABOUT IT. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:48 gonzaw wrote: HF/Toad isn't an option for me right now. I'm firmly townie on what HF posted. ymmvHmm, there is indeed that "Only 1 of VE/Foo is scum, not both" thing I mentioned and everybody ignored last cycle.. ..and VE doesn't really look too good ya know? (greatest understatement of the year). Also, you are missing Holy/Toad from there. Kita OR Toad make sense as Foo scumbuddies. Someone said last cycle that it would make sense for Holy to "waste" his vote nevertheless (and not vote Foo/Prome/etc), so as to not put his replacement in such a bad spot. If Foo is scum, it is possible scumteam told Holy to play it safe. Out of sandro, Foo, and Holy's replacement, it's the replacement that has the most chances of surviving end-game this game as scum. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:54 gonzaw wrote: Sorry, this is the couple steps down the rabbit hole response to ... why scum Foolishness might not be worried about the lynch despite leading late in the game. Not if you just said the only possible 3rd scummy that makes sense is kita. If he's mafia, and he has the third mafia vote on him, and I'm talking about voting prome or sandro, and sandro has 0 votes, then mafia expects the following: Me to vote prome, taking things to 6/4/1 3rd Dude to be able to vote prome, taking things to 5/5/1 HOPEFULLY SOMETHING ELSE I don't think this scenario makes sense, but as far as mafia Foolishness not being uber worried, IF there were another mafia on him, then things until 10 minutes to go LOOKED like the worst the vote would be is 5/5/1. Yeah, I think we should stop | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://dealbreaker.com/uploads/2013/06/marshmallow-fluff.jpg) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If your answer is yes and you're up and active, when you finish going through whatever you want to go through, I'd like for you to play along with this scenario. I am a cop. I have a red check on gonzaw. I tell you this. You smack your head and go, "Aha! It all makes sense now. I should have known Gonzaw was mafia, because __________." If you so choose, you can keep going and add, "Also, now that I know the mafia team was sandroba/gonzaw/?, the third member is almost certainly _______." EVERYONE ELSE I'M NOT A COP. I DON'T HAVE A RED CHECK. Just curious. If it were to turn out that Gonzaw is mafia, when you look at his filter, what would give you that, "man, I should have seen this thing because it points towards mafia Gonzaw" feeling? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(I know there I other stuff going on, but I'd actually still be interested in your thoughts there) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
There are aspects off that team that you can MAKE work, but I don't think Sandroba works in that setup, based on his push of prome, the strategy that would have to be behind it, and his late return with the LoL game stuff. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 00:46 gonzaw wrote: I don't plan on making the thread 80% gonzaw could be scum. I don't think you ARE scum, and it's not about finding actual reasons why you might be.auston i dunno what you are planning with this "tell me why gonzaw could be scum" thing, but please dont waste time on something pointless It's more just trying to get folks I want to hear more/different things from to post on odd subjects, to critically look at filters that aren't being critically looked at (people READ your posts, but always as you being towngonzaw. Maybe coming from the other side pulls up neat things that we aren't seeing, emphasizes certain parts of your posts, whatever). I also just want to see how his thoughts go when he's considering something like that, which will end up being relevant to my read on WoS. At worst, this is something dumb that, for good or bad reasons, can affect my vote today. At best, something interesting gets found, it affects other people's votes, whatever. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 00:47 WaveofShadow wrote: No, I'm not baiting. I'm not saying like, COULD GONZAW BE SCUM1?!?!?!?!?!?! That's why the stupid situations are stupid, because he's already confirmed scum in the scenarios I'm presenting.Austin, why? Even before the sandroba business I thought he was town. A bus makes absolutely NO sense here, so I don't understand why you're bringing it up to me. There is no way I see Gonzaw getting lynched today (or likely the rest of the game..? Dunno if he was alive long enough I suppose maybe we'd be forced to reconsider) or for the next little while at least so I don't see a point in the topic. Are you baiting something? You haven't asked this to anyone else. I hate being baited because I feel belittled by it, and it's bad enough that I have an inferiority complex in this particular game. But I like...reading through posts. We didn't chat as much as we should have beforehand, and this is a funky thing to start off discussion or for me to read some of your posting or whatever. This is designed, well or poorly, for me to get better insight into you and your alignment. And again, maybe if you're looking from an angle you haven't been, you notice a particularly good/bad point he made. Maybe it changes how you view the game. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gives you something to ... "contribute", because I know other people won't find it a contribution except I will, that isn't because people are attacking you. NONE OF THIS SOUNDS SUPER COMPELLING | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Meh.Austin, I'd love to talk with you, but maybe we can pick something slightly more...fruitful? I mean it can still be oddball in such a way as you get what you want but maybe it should be thread-relevant? I guess. You said you'd thought about marv, but not really looked hard. Could you poke around marv or kita specifically, just one dude? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:56 WaveofShadow wrote: I do but I also need to get brussels sprouts. So I run errands.Austin what happened to you? Thought you wanted to talk? Also, you're doing a lot of talking and a lot of "this is too much talking." If you want to chat about hypothetical Gonzaw-scum world, yippee. If you want to pick marv or kita, and read a little of them, or grill ME about them/one of them, mostly yippee. I've come up with some topics, promise, you just think they silly/too much work. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Not all who are off limits are lost. Or....something like that.Like, I would contribute, but I've been told that my suspects are off limits so I'm kinda at a loss as to what I even CAN do to prove my innocence. Maybe a story? I can offer the following more entertaining things to contribute on: (1) A magical world in which Gonzaw is mod-confirmed Gonzaw. Once he is known red, what in his filter makes you smack his head and go "I should have seen this..." (2) Talking heavily about either marv or kita. Preferably kita today, but if you DO get lynched, thoughts on marv would be helpful. (3) WoS has posted a boatload since your last bout of activity. If nothing else, he's a big topic for today and you can determine what you think of his recent stuff. (3) is not particular entertaining. (2) may not be either. Oh well. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The scum points get a + modifier because some of the scum points he's awarded are in relation to an odd read on Sandroba, mafia. Do you think Foolishness is the BEST lynch for today? Most likely mafia? Or just he's got a good chance of flipping, but probably better prey elsewhere? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
So instead, how happy are you with what kita just posted on Foolishness? We'll just start there. Then you're gonna ask me TWO questions. TWO. I am gonna answer. And you're gonna poke at my answers, or agree, or whatever, and we'll keep going. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I know you were looking at WoS/VE as likely targets at the start of the phase or during N1. You have moved on now to WoS + (Toad or VE), with a preference towards Toad last time I saw. What in particular raised your suspicions on toad during today, and why has VE fallen off? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:04 kitaman27 wrote: Somewhat addressed in my followup post above. Are you satisfied with the way he pushed the Prom lynch and his current case against Wave? I'm conflicted. He has some good points. It's not like WoS is the patron saint of Town in this game. I dislike...how he has built pressure on wave? He has posted big reads. He has posted sizeable cases. SOME of the fractured nature of his posts on WoS can be explained by ... how he's been juggling a couple different things today, as town OR mafia. Pressure on actions, pressure about votes, hypothetical scumteams, scumhunting, etc. But overall, the case appears to come down to some flavor of lazy lynch/sheep vote, really really halfhearted attack on two comments WoS made about hapa. As of the start of N1, he was scummier on VE than WoS. WoS was questionable, and was gonna get looked into. But overall, I'm NOT happy with the WoS case, no. It's not much, you're correct, there's very little meat as far as "WoS is scum for these reasons" in all the other stuff, and the dropoff in VE is concerning to me. As is just...the nature of the posts in which Foolishness has accused WoS? Disorganized, a point here, a point there. I think that's a crappy reason to shift a read on anyone though, "his case isn't as pretty as I think he normally makes cases." | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:12 WaveofShadow wrote: What in specific would you like me to answer? The gonzaq q? Because I dove through his filter and it honestly looks damn squeaky clean to me. I would almost be paranoid enough to think 'too squeaky' but with a filter length of his there's no way to fabricate and look that good. On January 25 2014 12:05 austinmcc wrote: Wave! YOU ARE DUCKING A LOT OF THE THINGS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT AND IT MAKES ME FEEL NOT GOOD ABOUT YOU AND IF YOU HADN'T PUT IN A GOOD BIT OF SENSIBLE POSTING TIME TODAY I WOULD FEEL VERY VERY NOT GOOD ABOUT YOU. So instead, how happy are you with what kita just posted on Foolishness? We'll just start there. Then you're gonna ask me TWO questions. TWO. I am gonna answer. And you're gonna poke at my answers, or agree, or whatever, and we'll keep going. We can start there. The gonzaw question is important to me, and you are really really really resisting and I dislike that but also I don't care that much. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:14 kitaman27 wrote: I think VE, more than anyone else today, has slipped past a lot of attention.Where are you on VE, austin? I haven't been able to chat with him. A bunch of his time in thread today was pork chop discussion or discussion of Toad reading HF's filter. The only recent positive for him is that he spent some time N1/D2 attacking prome. Like, out of any target mafia wants to go after, he takes a guy that comes off looking pretty good after the lynch, RATHER than attacking foolishness when given an opening, rather than attacking you, wos, toad. It's an odd choice. Otherwise, he has not scumhunted today. PART of that is people shutting down his suspects. PART of that is him scumhunting by presenting teams or relying on votes. Unsure on how to weight those, but, to me, the contributions he has presented today do not make him town. This is why I want to actually get a chance to speak with him. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:14 WaveofShadow wrote: I still kinda like Toad. Liked HF. Don't care that Toad didn't read HF's filter. Wish there was more current contribution, because I think a lot of the early stuff has to be discounted given his lack of feel for the time right before lynch.You haven't seen anything compelling against toad? What about gonzaw and my prodding of him? Do you agree with any of toad's case on me? Why or why not? (Goes for you too austin) As far as his case on you, I think it starts off in a ... townie way I guess? For whatever reason, I view him as accusing you SOLELY because of your absence at lynch time, the 20 minute stuff, to be a townie-ish thing? That's a weak ass reason to vote someone over anyone and anything else in the game. He explicitly states, with his vote on you and having said you're his favorite lynch, that he's still trying to get through your filter (vote early on, reading filter recently). I don't LOVE the idea of mafia straight up saying that they're going through the filter of a guy AFTER voting him. So, right now I was townie on HF, and I'm now looking kinda townie on Toad. I think the majority of his early posts on you are not convincing of anything because they're based on little and he explicitly hasn't read you. Overall, I find his case terribly unconvincing, but I think it comes from the right place. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He recognizes that VE hits some of the same triggers as you do - lack of activity at lynch time, specifically. But he doesn't look harder into VE. He's tunneled into you. I don't love that, but I don't think I dislike it in a "toad looks scummy" way, more in a "I wish that toad would also tunnel everyone else, because he's just going full bore after one guy pretty much and wasn't around for D1 so that's not a lot of toadthoughts" | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not seeing the connection, tbh.Your reasons for finding Toad towny in this post remind me of the reasons why I find VE towny. What say you to that? If you mean because you're townie on VE for conspiracy theories, I don't think that translates. Toad is less conspiracy theory and more...jumping straight into things, convinced, and PUSHING them. I think, honestly, otherwise, you don't actually have good reasons to think VE is town. I think it relies very very heavily on both talking about sandroba, except that you are both saying the same FACTS. Sandroba being a lazy scum is known. Apparently sandroba not caring about pressure is KNOWN. You're not both taking in information and spitting out these same weird thoughts or anything, you're mostly just both saying "the sun is hot." You have a minor point on VE's ragequitting, how it's honest, more likely town, but you ask whether he ragequits as scum. If you believe the answers to that question (marv said yes, dunno if anyone else chimed in), then...all that ragequit jazz is null now. alktjghaelkteahtea. Whatever. I don't see why you think the reasoning on the two are similar. And I don't think you have good points about VE. Sry. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
 O NOT TRUST THIS CASE IN THE LEAST*.I have played with scumToad, and I feel like USUALLY he gets himself caught trying to do something tricky, or clever, or fun, but that was in themed games. I don't see the scumToad that I've read translating, even in a vanilla game, to O NOT TRUST MY CASE* ALSO HERE IS MY CASE.At least to me, the toad that just blunders into replacing and is part wrong on some timings, is making accusations based on very little, whatever, is PROBABLY town. It's the WAY he's making his case and the WAY he's tunneling you that I attribute to him being townie. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
WoS, I'm actually interested in your right-now-up-to-the-minute stock ticker read of VE. I see stuff like this Prome's long case on VE (not gonna copy it here) andhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=51#1002 Some of it is fairly decent---he;s right in that VE around the lynch looked crappy and he didn't do a whole lot in the day, but then he is MASSIVLEY hypocritical with the stuff that compares the two of us: Ultimately when gonzaw said it was VE's 'trial by fire' he has the right of it---his actions and behaviours don't always quite line up but if he doesn't show up to steer us in the right direction (one way or another) he is going to be lynched today. I for one would be very glad to talk with him to figure him out and prove things to the thread once and for all. The only way I will be voting VE today is if he gives up entirely; until then I consider him town. I KNOW THAT THESE THINGS DON'T MAKE VE SCUM but You admit that VE has some stuff that, at the very least, looks objectively scummy from D1. You note that a giving up VE gets your vote, and that he can show his colors by showing up to steer things in the right direction. Do you believe he has taken control of the wheel? Given/not given up? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 13:19 WaveofShadow wrote: If you don't want to go through his filter, ain't no thang. But could you give quick, dirtay, thoughts on marv? Alright fuck it. I didn't want to release this info to thread in case scum tries their own version of last-minute shenannies (or a bad town version of it) but I won't be there for lynch tomorrow either. Once again, letting you guys know way in advance so if you all switch to me for whatever reason there won't be a damn thing I can do to defend myself. Do with this info what you will, people. Make shit cases on how I'm scum avoiding lynch (though honestly I don't see how that would fly considering it will be very easy to lynch me at deadline if people desire it), eliminate me last second or don't. My activity will also likely be sporadic tomorrow until my usual evening time. Are there any requests/suggestions for me? you all know my reads already I believe. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
YOU MAY STILL BE THE MILKSHAKE OF MY DESPAIR, BUT I AM LACTOSE TOLERANT | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 13:58 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think I ever asked people questions just as bait, or ... I probably have, but not at all in the way you seem to mean? No. Even the worst of my stupid questions I ask 90+% of the time because I really want to see the answers. lol you're lucky that I don't even consider that a bait because I was doing that shit anyway, otherwise I might be very cross with you right now. BESIDES. A MILKSHAKE CANNOT BE MAD | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Cooking + eating + any family time + cleanup can easily be 5 hours. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 14:12 gonzaw wrote: I don't even want to see any particular answer.Austin, you have to realize that for people to answer those questions they have to spend time researching them, etc. For instance, you telling Wave to check my filter as if I was confirmed scum. My filter is 17 pages long. Do you REALLY want Wave to read every single post of that, analyzing each and every single one of them, and saying "Ehmm, okay, if gonzaw was scum, would this individual post make any sense or be interesting in any way?". He'd basically spend 1-2 minutes with every post of mine trying to see if he can come up with some wacky conclusion you want him to reach. I have 335 posts this game. 1-2 minutes for every post means he'll waste 335-670 minutes doing your little "exercise". Do you really think Wave spending up to 10 hours trying to answering your question is productive? No matter what "answers" you want to see? No it's not austin. I think people probably are not reading your filter as if you were mafia. I think MAYBE if they do that, it triggers a weird thought. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I don't care if he skims, reads 10 posts, reads 0 posts and just bullshits about how you're pushing this thing that could have led to a mafia victory, or you're posting a lot and he feels like you covered up x or y that was good analysis, whatever. It's more just looking for skimming with a specific viewpoint, one that is odd and you probably don't have, in mind. And I want to see the outcome of that, in someone that isn't me's words. This is better for postgame, or in my shadow QT if those are released post BOTH games, or ... never. Something. VE said he was frying porkchops, but he also indicated that the pork chops were for dinner and the dinner was for family. I didn't get the impression he was at his computer then fried pork chops then said "THESE ARE FRIED" and returned to his computer. That sounds like a fire hazard anyway | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 25 2014 05:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Have you ever prepared a meal for an entire family and consumed it and cleaned up in LESS than 5 hours? If so hat's off to you I guess, but it takes time for me to do shit. The oil was heating up at the time of my vote. What do you want me to say? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 04:18 gonzaw wrote: I will not. Apparently there's an epidemic of cooking going around, and I have caught the bug.Will somebody be here at the deadline? You know....maybe new vote shenannigans will happen (no promises though) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 04:19 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't actually want you to post anything, but wtf does your shadow QT look like if you're going to be apathetic already on D2?If you want. Am I going to take it the wrong way? Be prepared for me to take it the wrong way. You're not just town or scum, you're town or scum and sharing your thoughts on the game with someone this game. I think that makes it markedly different than any normal game you could ragequit or be apathetic in. You're not coaching, but you're...at least opening up your thoughts to someone. But you're content to just...give up? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 04:25 VisceraEyes wrote: I think you're a likely lynch and I've come around on wanting to lynch you.Yeah man, because I'm not willing to put in the (alarmingly high) amount of effort it's going to take to convince you guys that me cooking porkchops is not alignment indicative. I'm not giving up - I'm still looking for scum. But I have no illusions about the probability of my lynch based on my play this phase and last. What about you? Do YOU think I'm not a likely lynch today? It's a matter of priorities. My first priority is NOT to stay alive. That's scum's first priority. My first priority is to find scum. And I've been trying, but I get shit on every time I try. EVERY TIME. Can you not see how this is frustrating to me? Can you not understand why that would make me so angry I want to quit the game? Because this is a Shadow game and part of something larger, I'm not going to quit the game though. But I WILL accept my fate, because everyone else has. I ... I dunno. Maybe I'm odd and I just don't care when my reads get shit on at times because I'm used to often having wrong/odd reads. But either you're RIGHT, and who cares if someone shits on you, or you're wrong because you're not seeing something they're pointing out, so who cares if they shit on you because they have reason to, or you're wrong and people are being assholes. In which case it's on them, not on you. I dunno, I just don't like this and I'm on board with towns lynching people who martyr/give up/"kill me, you'll be sorry, but it's fine cuz we're ahead" I have a hard time stomaching lynching you off that, but it seems better than having Risen in LXIII and you here (if town) and other townies just go "yeah, lynch me, then you'll see i'm town." | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I read back over your filter. I read back over Hapa's. Hapa Stuff Hapa may have wanted to kill WoS today, but he was on your nuts D1. A ton of his D1 is back and forth with you and suspicions on you. HE DID CHANGE HIS MIND. Come N1, he didn't post on you as much, but he appears to be less certain on you, trollpost but also indicates that he doesn't think it's an awful idea to lynch you or find you scummy - + Show Spoiler + Your Filter I was townie on you D1. But if I'm LOOKING for strange stuff, your reads/votes stuff come off a little janky. You're suspicious of Prome. With reasons. With posts. Also somewhat suspicious of Foolishness, sometimes toying with suspicion on HF. You've got stuff like this: On January 23 2014 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know man, the catchup posts seemed disingenuous, but I'm afraid I'm biased. Based on the posts I'm more willing to admit that I could be wrong about Prome, and yes the alternatives are looking better. The thing about Prome is that there's no POP to his posts - when he's town, when he thinks he's found something suspicious something clicks and his confidence shoots up and you can see it in his posts. I didn't get that feeling when he was posting about you. But again, I'm not sure how much of it is my own bias speaking. Foolishness/Sandroba/HolyFlare are three targets who are, in my opinion, well equipped to prove their worth D1 if they're town. That none of them has been able to do this is troubling to me. that indicates you might be worried about Sandroba as well, but you never fully vocalize that for a long time. You're start bugging prome about sandroba shortly before the lynch: On January 23 2014 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh man and he comes in in the eleventh hour too. Unreal. Prome is sandroba scum for that meta thing? Is anyone scum to you? On January 23 2014 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote: You think prome is scummy, or are pushing that, yes yes yes. But you've barely said a word about sandroba yourself, AT ALL. You say he can prove his worth, but you never even add the other half of that at any point in the day", he has/hasn't proven his worth. What ranks him higher than sandroba who is A) a lurker and B) trying to get you lynched? Is it just the fact that he's set to be lynched? Even BEFORE the voteswap at 10 minutes, there were posts on sandroba. Foolishness's comments on Sandroba got poked at. Sand caught a couple vote/unvotes iirc. And i KNOW you can be asking prome those questions from a townie standpoint, but it feels awkward for you to be bringing up sand without ever speaking YOUR mind on sand, despite, from your earlier post, you probably having a clear scumread on him for not proving himself. I dunno. I don't like those sand posts even though I know they can be read from both sides. I know this post doesn't go anywhere, but I think if you want to vote VE for inactivity/giving up, that's a policy matter. If you want to say he's mafia for his posts, you can do that too. But some people are overconnecting the activity/quitting to scumminess, imo, and they need to find some real justification in his filter for votes. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 04:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Opposite. Right now I'm mind-voting him.Does that mean you won't be voting for VE, austin? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 05:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I DO TOO HAVE THE BALLS TO DIE FOR MY TOWN! YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU CAD!!! ![[image loading]](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/410016/sam-cassell-testicle-dance-o.gif) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
##vote: VisceraEyes | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 05:37 gonzaw wrote: Yes.austin, what do you think about what I posted about Wave?: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=81#1610 Do you still prefer to lynch him over Toad? On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote: It's not about saying one scummier than other. It's about saying "like someone else said, sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around." I was the guy he was talking to. I got a couple posts from him, all of them not quite about what I was asking, and then he dipped. Not so much a +1 as I LOVE THIS, but a +1 like..."someone brought this up and it carries weight with my read."And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times. At this point, On January 26 2014 06:07 Toadesstern wrote: I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet... I haven't looked into VE yet is NOT AN OPTION/EXCUSE/WHATEVER. If you want VE alive tomorrow, you gotta do something about it. If you don't care, you're fine not to read him. But not looking into one of two main lynch candidates because you want to read his posts tomorrow is smelly. Why do you care if he changes tomorrow if you haven't looked into his D1/N1/D2? How are you going to know if ANYTHING changes? What sort of change are you looking for if you have no basis/read to work from? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote: A lot of his filter is his GIANT posts. The size doesn't necessarily equate to content though. His giant giant posts are VE is town, Prome is scum. Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far? Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2? You guys think he can still be scum based on that? Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something? Like I really want to know. At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin) But his reasons for VE being town are kinda murky, and he spends boatloads and boatloads of time on all these little things that make Prome scum, despite Prome being pretty much off the table (it would seem for WoS as well? I have not seen him pushing Prome lately). So while there's a lot, a bunch of it is stuff that nobody really believes, and it picks up after we lynch a mafia. You can say he's responding to pressure by posting a bunch, either side can do that (I know not all mafia do, but I know I've gone post-crazy as mafia, and we don't have a good example of WoS's scumplay so it's unknown). Maybe it's knowing that town lynched mafia D1 and WoS/buddy need to kick things into gear and take control. Add in Hapa and others finding his D1 scummy. Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists. Also just minor nitpicky stuff. Putting some credence in the argument that sandroba was around and active. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:08 gonzaw wrote: Nope. Packing up food now, headed to a cookoff.Okay, who will be active here until deadline? Foolishness, and who else? Prome, will you be here? Toad, kita, austin? ...VE? I will have pictures to prove, if necessary. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:14 Foolishness wrote: Understood.This post is me talking as co-runner of the TL mafia forum, and should not be taken seriously regards to what is happening in this game. Don't bring Shadows into the argument or the fact that this is a coaching game when you are talking to someone. This is a game being played primarily for educational purposes so that everyone (including us playing right now) can learn something and get better. Posts like these: are not and will not be tolerated (and this isn't the only post I've seen so far). This kind of attitude will not be tolerated from anyone, and you should be ashamed of yourself for bringing up these kind of arguments. We all respect each other here, and any sort of disrespect not only makes you look bad but also sets a bad precedence for the future. We all love each other, so be loving when talking to someone else <3 | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 07:11 gonzaw wrote: Yeah. 100% certain on that answer? No. But right now I think I'm happy with it, despite it not seeming likely that VE and Foolishness are scum together and each having decent reasons for being mafia.Quick: You still wanna vote VE after Foo's new "entrance"? Because you, WoS and marvy won't be around. Those are 3 votes we'll lose, which maybe, maybe we could need to decide the lynch more near the deadline | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 26 2014 11:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Don't believe you're my primary target. I think Foolishness's post on you is legit, but you don't jump that high. If your calling VE town was a bit stranger, or I didn't know you guys have played a bunch together, then you might get top billing.This and one of Toad's posts earlier struck me as buddying considering I was nigh unlynchable at that point, but I am going to leave that thought behind and move forward, because more than anything he was right. So austin, does that mean I am your primary target now that VE is gone? I'm honestly shocked at how you have me so high up on your scum list after our talk last night. You're 100% right that the giant posts don't necessarily equate to good content. The point wasn't for them to necessarily be solid airtight cases, they were to showcase thought process. I would have hoped I've gotten that across by now but apparently not because there are still a LOT of doubters. As for Prome I mentioned I wanted Foolishness and Toad lynched before Prome so there was no point in pushing him the rest of the day as he wasn't getting lynched. It's in my filter somewhere. Does all of that stuff you've talked about really overshadow my effort and contributions for the past day enough to put me as the number 1 scum suspect going into day 3? There isn't a whole lot more I'm going to be able to do than what I've done already, so if no amount of effort is going to prove anything to you, then I would posit that you're not properly considering the most simple case scenario, which is that I am town, I am not concerned with what people read in my filter (hence the massive amount of posting) and I am putting forth the utmost effort to win this game. you are considering only the mafia options and what's unfortunate is you're not even the worst offender in that regard. 'Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists.' My D2 was DAMN good, and you know that. Leave the bias at the door and help me lynch scum. Effort = townie only goes so far with me. We don't have ANY comparison of recent scum play for you. I know that, personally, I can get REALLY active as scum. I know I'm not the only person EVER to do this. Especially when my team is in a terrible spot (last guy alive in PTP Demon's Run, late game in Chrono Trigger, etc.), a bunch of posting is easy because you post or you die. I think people are making too much of your activity, and should judge you on your actual contributions and not post count or post length, because they have pretty much no idea how you would normally play scum. I think you're ... going way too far with this. "Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists" is an ENTIRELY valid statement, it's true, and people shouldn't scumhunt day by day and forget anything old. I assume that you agree with this, yes? On January 26 2014 23:21 WaveofShadow wrote: marv gave his answer, which is good as far as answers-from-marv go, but at least for me personally, marv is a much better answer than I am to this question. He's more than happy to kill off scumbuddies when he thinks he needs to, a marv of EITHER alignment is not really expecting scum sandroba to be of much value to the scum team (and so scum marv would be OKAY with killing him off, cuz if Sandroba had an AFK N1/D2, he was very likely to be lynched D2).He said his weekend activity suffers; I don't have huge reason to question that since his activity in this game WAS better during the week. Alright so if there was one (or for bonus derp points, two) scum on sandroba, which would be the most likely and why? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:28 gonzaw wrote: I think he had some good contributions.austin, you think WoS had no contributions on D2? I mean, I think when we all said "he put lots of effort" we meant "he put lots of meaningful effort". I think he has a lot of filler-y contributions. I think that everyone is happy to say "active/contribute-y" and nobody yet has really dug into what % of posts falls into which category. Heck, SOME of the posts swapping reads on WoS weren't "he had a lot of good contributions," but were instead specifically billed as "he's putting in too much effort to be mafia." | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:29 marvellosity wrote: I may well be. I've seen bursts of activity from other players, but also just not that many last-man-standing situations, tbh. hey austin, no hard feelings buddy. Jeez :p I would say, austin, that some of your last-man-standing type efforts have actually been some of the most unique things I've seen from TL mafia players. So while you may have a sprinkling of a point with your effort thingy, if you're extrapolating from yourself then I'm not sure that's a correct thing to do or expect ^^ I think the only person I've ever see post that many pages in one phase/cycle as mafia is rayn. Nah nah, no hard feelings, but you know that you're willing to drop scumbuddies, especially ones that have...weak scumgames, and you know you're willing to jump on a lynch early if you think that's better than waiting around to see what will happen. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Same just happens to be true from my point of view | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote: Yeah. Most of that filter is the last 3-4 days though. The first...5 or 6 or even more game days, I was pretty horribly inactive. If you remember, I spent an ENTIRE CYCLE afk I think and just posted a dumb vote with 10 minutes or something left in the day. Things weren't bad for my team, didn't have to bust ass.Also about that "effort". In PTP Demon's run, you ended up with a 14 page filter in 12 days of game. In this game, WoS has 13 pages of filter in 6 days of game so far I'd say it's quite different....perhaps | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote: No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain.austin, question for you: do you think Fool's certainty on Wave is warranted? I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote: It's a lazy way of saying something, but given the choice of "effort = townieness" and "these contributory posts = townieness", the first is not just lazy but is ALSO the more likely thing to come from mafia that were happy with where WoS was going into N1/D2 and then unhappy when he started getting super post happy and reads started changing. it's a lazy way of saying something. gonzaw gave reasons well enough. You could say "he has a massive filter and that is townie purely for effort". Or you can extrapolate a little and say "he has a massive filter and on balance his posting within this have left me feeling pretty good" or "he has a massive filter and his posts feel townie and i can't see him pushing an agenda" Also in a vacuum, 95% of people who post that much in a phase/cycle are town. Now I pulled that figure right out my ass, but you get the idea. Oddly it's actually one of my weaknesses. rayn in ## was one of the few times i lynched a really active mafia, because in general i tend to find filter length a massive town indicator, and early in games I tend to go for quieter, lurkier scumplayers, and later in games i tend not to be alive. I know either alignment can say it, it's shorthand. But if you want to hand-wave a scummy lean on WoS away, you can just say "MINNY POSTS GG TOWNWAVE," and when a couple people do that, maybe scum is in there. Besides, it's lazy of ME to just say "no, some people just said # of posts = townie" and not actually go find those posts. I don't have any non-lazy ground to stand on. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Just gut stupid stuff right now: If I die, take marv SLIGHTLY scummier on your lists. In terms of "people who might kill austinmcc," he's up there. I'm almost always suspicious of him, I almost always fight him on things. I don't see any PARTICULAR reasons for people to kill me, and as far as anyone who gains from me being dead, marv who thinks I might be on his ass later gets that out of the way. I DO think Foolishness's post on WoS has some legit points. No, I don't want to lynch WoS tomorrow right now. Brussels sprouts + bacon + bourbon/apple cider vinegar reduction sauce is GOOD. Everyone go cook. That's...not a lot of thoughts. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 07:55 gonzaw wrote: Eh. It's not all tinfoil hat. To some extent, sandroba is just KNOWN as a lazy scum player. He's GOING TO DIE in a game like this.Arggh I read Prome's filter and get confused. I can see the stuff Wave and VE posted about him, some stuff can be constructed as scummy. His lack of activity this weekend (based on IRL) doesn't help. But then it confuses me because of the sandro shit, his jump on sandro's vote, and the fact that if Foo flips scum he just has to be town. Dunno wtf to think of him. Just leave him be until LYLO I guess, then get all tin-foil hat wonky The best thing scum sandroba can do, if he's not going to play, is to maybe try and make a scumbuddy look good? It's not PURE conspiracy, it's not pure confusing, would be interesting to see who scum sandroba normally targets, town or mafia. On January 27 2014 07:57 gonzaw wrote: I still believe it doesn't really matter much. Some of the townreads I get in games are based off specific things a person does, and no matter what ELSE happens, they still did the thing that I think only comes from town. It's not QUITE that strong in this game as some townreads have been in recent games, but it's strong.Anyways, before the clock hits midnight, you guys have any thoughts about the shit I posted last page? Mostly about that stuff I said about Holy back on D1. Austin, do you still believe it doesn't really matter much? Marv, you used it as a good argument to think Holy was scum, then backed out when he made that "I sub out" post. After reading what I posted again, do you still think it's valid or not? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 08:02 marvellosity wrote: You know that I don'taustin, you know that brainz thing is a big load of bullshit, right? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 27 2014 08:13 marvellosity wrote: Yeah. But you know what the answer to that question is.yes I know. But *I* think that as far as reasons to think someone town go, that one's not such a hot one. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 28 2014 23:54 kitaman27 wrote: Not a good one. I've been reading, but not posting.Any reason why you don't have a post this cycle? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 28 2014 23:57 Promethelax wrote: If fool and sand are scum together and you're me and you throw out Toad as possible mafia, then the likeliest scum candidate is kita. Which you know, because you just read my filter.If fool and Sand are scum together who and why is the third scum and how does he work to look good from day one? This will lead into the theory. Play along. In that scenario, I don't think he has to work to make himself look good. He's got to look BETTER than other lynch alternatives, but it's LIKELY that in a sand/fool/+1 team, the +1 is the guy you're setting up for endgame. Foolishness almost got lynched on D1, has had relatively consistent pressure/votes/suspicion on him throughout the game, so I think all the +1 has to do is look better than the non-foolishness lynch candidates. I don't think he tries and distances or buddies Foolishness, because he doesn't really need to. He just has to not sink to the bottom of the questionable group, can lynch Foolishness if need be, and hope to ride things out til late-ish. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:04 Promethelax wrote: what if I'm not you and don't throw out toad? this post says "who would be the most likely +1 if you were someone else AND you didn't have the reads you do." So either you're trying to discern my alignment here or you're asking questions that feel like questions I sometimes ask, upon whose answers you should not try to build any kind of good association. The behavior wouldn't change, imo, regardless of who the +1 is. The likely +1 would probably still be kita. In a HF/fool/sand world, HF doesn't even try to help foolishness as he goes afk? Toad comes in and posts about the time right before the lynch without quite understanding the timing and what happened, without his mafia buddies letting him know how sand got lynched? I would not put Toad > Kita on that list even if I considered him. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I love to ask "yeah but what would you do if things were different", but I think (and hopefully it's true) that I do that to poke at the person I'm asking, not to get a different answer which I can then run with. If you want to poke at me, that's cool, but if you have a thing in mind, and you want me to agree with it, and my initial answer did not, then you should just go ahead and state your theory because I'm playing as me and not as not me with not my reads. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:20 Promethelax wrote: To the extent you're looking for non-kita there, I'd disagree.I need the insight into you and some help from my favourite conspiracy nut in determining whether my insanity is reasonable. I thought your conspiracy was headed somewhere else when you first asked it. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:25 kitaman27 wrote: You've kind of been in that middle list. I've been watching for a falloff from you, like in ... whatever game we played with a you/marv/someone(s) else scumteam and you were super active the first few hours and then gone most of the rest of the day and I didn't catch it.Is there a reason that you've put so little effort into interacting with me? I haven't seen it, so I haven't been super worried about you. Given that you've been...consistently just beneath my radar(?), rather than bouncing around in activity/interest/wherever-my-read-on-you-happens-to-be, I've not felt particularly scummy on you. If that's a reason, there's my reason. If not, then no, no real reason. To make up for that a little - Foolishness's case touches me in a happy place. My vote right now comes down between Foolishness or Prome, depending on some more reading of Foolishness and whatever else. I know that I didn't pull specific examples of people saying "WoS is town because of activity" and not because of specific content, but Prome is one of the folks who used activity - WoS' activity makes him Unlynchable for me. Today. He had an awful post about him and VE both being scum that sounded like it came from a scum with VE perspective but the rest of his stuff has been decent and simply involved. If he is scum he isn't the one we will lynch today. Townier than he was at the beginning of the day though his terrible attitude towards me/sand d1 and towards VE d2 are worrisome he is near the bottom of my lynch list. Prome doesn't like WoS's D1, doesn't like his attitude towards VE, and then weighs what seem to be activity and "rest of his stuff being decent" vs those things he doesn't like to come out with WoS near the bottom of his lynch list. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I know you've been of mixed opinion on Foolishness this cycle, with a lean towards scummy for most of the start. But does it touch you in a happy place as well? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:38 Promethelax wrote: Show me. You sure you've been reading this cycle? I spelled out my reasons for not finding WoS scummy earlier. You were coming into D2 with toad/WoS/VE as your options. On January 24 2014 06:17 Promethelax wrote: Oh I generally like and agree with the analysis, I agree with Austin being the one on the lynch I'm not confident in (I mentioned this drunk last night, not sure if that was clear, Marv is less town than others for the lynch as well). I agree that scum is probably within the non sand voters as the way that lynch went down was classic last minute town shennanies. I hadn't thought about Austin being unwilling to switch due to all scum voting the same and I actually found that to be interesting and rather useful as an insight. In all that was a strong post which I found myself agreeing with and mostly found it made you townier. If I was to lynch three players right now it would be WoS toad and VE. There is at least one if not two scum on that list. Holy did say something in the early game which looked really townie to me, can't think of what it was though, but besides that one moment he has seemed scummy as hell and his slot simply isn't helping anything. On January 24 2014 06:19 Promethelax wrote: Does anyone disagree with next lynch being between those three players? If so who should it be between and why? I have a decent reason for everyone else to be town those three not so much. + Show Spoiler [HEY THIS IS ALSO JUST KINDA NEAT TO NO…] + On January 24 2014 07:49 Promethelax wrote: Just, okay, if Fool is scum and Sand is scum who is the third scum? He would have to have been pushing my lynch head over heels (or be HF) since the only other options were scum lynches. There wasn't a player going ass to the wall crazy to get me lynched besides VE and if he was scum watching the scum lynch on foolish fall apart would he really afk and just hope the lynch shifts to me? You don't touch WoS at all until that post I quote above, that WoS's activity makes him unlynchable for you. You say nothing else about your thoughts on WoS during D2. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:50 Promethelax wrote: Okay. But in reading my filter to make a case on me/unmake a case on me, you should have noticed this series of posts.I didn't say anything else on day two. His activity was enough reason not to lynch him that day. + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2014 07:25 austinmcc wrote: gg VE Don't believe you're my primary target. I think Foolishness's post on you is legit, but you don't jump that high. If your calling VE town was a bit stranger, or I didn't know you guys have played a bunch together, then you might get top billing. Effort = townie only goes so far with me. We don't have ANY comparison of recent scum play for you. I know that, personally, I can get REALLY active as scum. I know I'm not the only person EVER to do this. Especially when my team is in a terrible spot (last guy alive in PTP Demon's Run, late game in Chrono Trigger, etc.), a bunch of posting is easy because you post or you die. I think people are making too much of your activity, and should judge you on your actual contributions and not post count or post length, because they have pretty much no idea how you would normally play scum. I think you're ... going way too far with this. "Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists" is an ENTIRELY valid statement, it's true, and people shouldn't scumhunt day by day and forget anything old. I assume that you agree with this, yes? marv gave his answer, which is good as far as answers-from-marv go, but at least for me personally, marv is a much better answer than I am to this question. He's more than happy to kill off scumbuddies when he thinks he needs to, a marv of EITHER alignment is not really expecting scum sandroba to be of much value to the scum team (and so scum marv would be OKAY with killing him off, cuz if Sandroba had an AFK N1/D2, he was very likely to be lynched D2). On January 27 2014 07:29 austinmcc wrote: I think he had some good contributions. I think he has a lot of filler-y contributions. I think that everyone is happy to say "active/contribute-y" and nobody yet has really dug into what % of posts falls into which category. Heck, SOME of the posts swapping reads on WoS weren't "he had a lot of good contributions," but were instead specifically billed as "he's putting in too much effort to be mafia." On January 27 2014 07:44 austinmcc wrote: No, I can't go that far. Especially with foolishness also being iffy on alignment at this point, but even if we knew he was town, I'd be less certain than Foolishness and unsure how foolishness can be so certain. I just have a love affair with the unpopular opinion, and so the one guy going "no, there are some legitimate reasons WoS could be/is scum" appeals to me, whereas, even if Gonzaw isn't, there HAVE been posts that purely equate WoS's filter length/effort with townieness. On January 27 2014 07:54 austinmcc wrote: It's a lazy way of saying something, but given the choice of "effort = townieness" and "these contributory posts = townieness", the first is not just lazy but is ALSO the more likely thing to come from mafia that were happy with where WoS was going into N1/D2 and then unhappy when he started getting super post happy and reads started changing. I know either alignment can say it, it's shorthand. But if you want to hand-wave a scummy lean on WoS away, you can just say "MINNY POSTS GG TOWNWAVE," and when a couple people do that, maybe scum is in there. Besides, it's lazy of ME to just say "no, some people just said # of posts = townie" and not actually go find those posts. I don't have any non-lazy ground to stand on. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 00:54 Promethelax wrote: He pushes sand npnp because sand is going to get got on D2 or D3 when he continues to play scumsand. That fits both with his statements about when/why he pushes scumbuddies, and with past experience --> he'll push people who look bad or are going to die.Interesting. Talk to me about why a scum marv pushes Sand/Fool d1 over me when he could have orchestrated a me lynch. Obviously this assumes I'm town. Assume it for a moment. marv pushing foolishness does NOT fit that team, imo. Which is why I was curious. To some extent, the change to sandroba ameliorates that, but not much. I don't think scummarv attacks scum foolishness with the sandroba stuff on D1. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:07 Promethelax wrote: Zees eez not ze point.yes and? Would you argue that the player with the most posts in the game is the best lynch when compared to the guy who did some scummy shit d1 and followed it up by doing scummy shit d2? WoS/Ve were pretty interchangeable from d1 in my eyes but d2 WoS went balls to the wall efforting it up while VE went balls to the floor sad sacking around. So WoS became unlynchable that day. I do not in any way see your problem with him not being a lynch option that day. It's a lazy way of saying something, but given the choice of "effort = townieness" and "these contributory posts = townieness", the first is not just lazy but is ALSO the more likely thing to come from mafia that were happy with where WoS was going into N1/D2 and then unhappy when he started getting super post happy and reads started changing. I know either alignment can say it, it's shorthand. But if you want to hand-wave a scummy lean on WoS away, you can just say "MINNY POSTS GG TOWNWAVE," and when a couple people do that, maybe scum is in there. This is fine:
Filling in the blank with "MINNY POSTS" is NOT TOWNIE to me. You're taking the really lazy way out of just purely saying activity = townieness, swapping your read because of activity alone, and never really referencing content or anything. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
WoS' activity makes him Unlynchable for me. Today. He had an awful post about him and VE both being scum that sounded like it came from a scum with VE perspective but the rest of his stuff has been decent and simply involved. If he is scum he isn't the one we will lynch today. Townier than he was at the beginning of the day though his terrible attitude towards me/sand d1 and towards VE d2 are worrisome he is near the bottom of my lynch list. You found his post about WoS/VE both being mafia to be "awful". That's the only specific thing mentioned. The next-closest you get to anything specific is that you disliked his attitude on D1 towards prome/sand, and you are worried about his VE read. None of which is good. The sole redeeming factors are "activity" and "the rest of his stuff has been decent and simply involved." Your specific thoughts on WoS are scummy, but your generic thoughts on his activity are townie. That feels in mah belly like it's the wrong way around. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:18 Promethelax wrote: No, we shan't okay, shall we dance the hypothetical dance? Two players Q and W have done essentially the same thing d1. They played in an objectivly scummy way and failed to vote for scum lynch while hard pushing a townie mislynch. On d2 Q keeps playing sloppily, hardly posts and mostly gets mad when you try to talk to him. W posts a lot and seems to be trying to figure things out although he does have some posts which suggest that if Q is scum W is also scum. Which player do you try to lynch Q or W? At least not right now.Because you gots a problem. In this hypothetical, you prefer to lynch Q. But it's not the lynching of Q or W that matters at all. If you're town, you prefer to lynch Q. If you're MAFIA, you still prefer to lynch Q so long as Q is town. You know that he looks worse than W, you see people not wanting to lynch W that day, so Q is the go-to target. I don't care about lynching Q over W. I care about the reasons given to no longer want to lynch W, or the reasons given to lynch Q. Your hypothetical says NOTHING AT ALL about the lyncher, which is the dude in question here. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:24 marvellosity wrote: Wanting to lynch someone, then not wanting to lynch them PURELY on activity, when the only specific instances of that activity that you reference are things you find scummy, does not feel particularly green to me.austin, I can't really say I understand why this is so problematic for you. I didn't really get it when you first brought it up either. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:26 marvellosity wrote: Yup. But then normally, when you disagree with me on something and are right, I'm 100% convinced that at some future point I'll be right about whatever it is we disagree on. ONE DAY I WILL BE THE BRIDE.And normally when I don't understand why you're putting so much weight on something, it's not because I don't understand.  | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 01:31 marvellosity wrote: There are more plausible narratives. But this series of questions isn't making me feel good about him either.it's true, that is our eternal dance. It *might* say more about you than me though. ref: the activity/prome thing. Prome said x and y posts felt off amongst the sea of posts that felt good. As mafia he could just blanketly say "activity = good, yea bros?",... but he's mindful of a couple of posts he's seen still. That he doesn't have to point out if he's scum if he's making a blanket townread on activity. You're painting this as if there's only one plausible narrative Whether I'm right or wrong in a thing I find scummy, I'm troubled that he just went to make a partial case on me but maybe didn't catch my series of posts about finding someone who hand-waved activity = WoS, when that's like 50% of what I've done for 1/3 of this game. I'm troubled that he asks his Q/W question, but from the wrong angle, because it doesn't matter to me whether Q or W is town/mafia/active/inactive, it matters to me what Armando The Onlooker says about Q and W. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Do you understand what I'm getting at with people saying "activity = town" on WoS? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:07 kitaman27 wrote: Although Armando is an Everyman, in this case he's Prome. His residence is Outside.I don't trust Armando. Does he have proof of residence? I understand what you're saying, but is it a concern if Wave's posts actually do look townie, aka he is active and making quality posts? If Prom were to attack Wave's posts as a useless wall of text and then suddenly consider him unlynchable it would be one thing, but he does refer to the posts as decent and involved. And yesh, there are degrees of responses. But like...two things happened on D2 that were noticeable. From end of N1/D2, WoS got super super super posty. And VE gave up, more or less. If I had to chart out stuff that happened in D2, those are my things. For me it IS a concern when WoS has quality posts, but someone is gone for a while, then references all the activity but never speaks to any particular townie post, only some scummy ones. I know I've questioned the length and breadth of WoS's actually super townie submissions within his heightened activity, but I don't disagree that there were quality posts. It's just going with activity and never touching on what posts were townie that irks me. Then it irks me that marv says he doesn't see why it's important or what I'm getting at, because I don't think this is too strange of a thought here. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:18 marvellosity wrote: Because for me, if Toad is town and kita is probably town, that leaves:austin if a body of posts in general is good, why does someone need to go around picking out individual ones for the thread to see? To what end? It serves no use as far as lynching mafia goes. You're being irked because you're being silly even though you're the only one who thinks this is actually particularly important. Why? wos foolishness you prome me and i'm town. Which means I'm searching for 2 mafia in wos/foolishness/marv/prome. And if WoS isn't mafia, that means I'm searching for 2 mafia in you/foolishness/prome. So things that might make one or the other scummy are particularly important to me. People who think I might be mafia, or toad might be mafia, are in a slightly different boat, so maybe they don't feel the same way. I'm partially irked because it's the second time this game you've done it. On D1, when I was asking prome and then sandroba about prome's calling out VE but not WoS, you posted something along a similar vein of "i don't see why you find this important" On January 22 2014 03:46 marvellosity wrote: austin the issue wasn't whether Prome justified the difference, but whether what he did makes him scummy or not. You're 1-0ing something that wasn't even really a point of contention On January 22 2014 05:31 marvellosity wrote: Just popping in between exercise and dinner, i'll go find kita's stuff a bit later. Mostly 1, maybe a touch of 3? It's just something I don't find very surprising. I've often remarked to Prome that I find his opening to games bad/weak/scummy because he makes senseless accusations/stupid fluff/whatever. Really (and this is to VE mostly I guess) I don't really care so much about him doing that at the start of the game, nor Hapa either, because it's what they do. The difference between here and LX is that on LX it was abundantly clear he was on the backfoot about his RNG plan, here his defence was on the frontfoot (partly *because* he didn't try to overjustify it again and again) and he simply moved on from it. I sincerely wish I found it as interesting as you and VE seem to :p So it's extra irksome because this is twice now when I've been poking at prome you're just not seeing what I'm seeing. With the first thing, VE saw what I was seeing, flipped town. Sandroba had no problem with prome's interaction there, and was mafia. And my questions on prome/WoS/VE were like...one of very very very few times he ever interacted with thread. I THINK that was really the most interactive, I got like 3-4 posts in a chain from him, but all misunderstanding my question/going somewhere else. Then as far as the FIRST part of your question to me, why someone needs to go around picking out individual townie posts, they don't NEED to. But he's picked out streams of posts that were SCUMMY to him. The only time he's not fully generic, it's to say WoS did some scummy-ish stuff. If he's going to say that WoS did some scummy stuff, why doesn't he also point out non-generic townie stuff? Even "less generic"? That's his ENTIRE commentary on one of the major things that happened D2, that it's good but also here are some scummy things, but I'm not voting. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
that VE saw what I was seeing concerning the first thing I was poking at prome on. Sandroba didn't. I'm interested in whether people are seeing what I'm talking about in the second thing I'm poking at prome on. If, in both cases, townies are at least SEEING what I'm getting at, even if come to a different conclusion/think I'm overvaluing something, then it looks bad for you that you're saying each time you just don't care in either case and don't understand why I do. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote: Yes and noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.austin, it doesn't look bad for me at all, are you insane? It's nothing to do with "seeing" what you're talking about. It's whether it actually means that someone is scummy. I've been pretty clear that it isn't. kita also says that it isn't. You're the only one pushing this...? IF someone has, say, 100 good posts and 2 posts, which do you highlight? Or maybe do you say "gosh there's a bunch of good posts, but these are the 2 exceptions"? Maybe you say that. Maybe you don't. But the third option is just "this person has a lot of posts. also, there are some bad ones." Prome, TO ME, doesn't say that WoS has a bunch of good posts. He says WoS has a bunch of posts. Doesn't say good. Doesn't say bad. Just doesn't want to lynch based on activity. AFTER saying it's just activity and pointing out something scummy, he DOES say "the rest of his stuff has been decent and simply involved." You may read that as "there's a bunch of good posts," but it troubles me given that it still equates activity/involvement alone with townieness in the lazy fashion, and that it comes only as an explanation of why a scummy thing doesn't make WoS scum. It's a...followup, and not the real point? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
marv/prome OR foolishness/prome In either case, what prome does is interesting and what you guys do in response is interesting. So little things are going to stand out more because I'm not on board with toad being possible mafia, feel good about WoS and kita right now, and I know my alignment. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:46 marvellosity wrote: Above post may answer some of that. This is going nowhere. Are you going to think about anything else austin, or is this somehow the be all and end all? I'm PROBABLY going to not think about anything else. Fully happy with toadread. Can peek more at WoS and kita, but if reads don't change on either of them, then I'm left with 3 people and one scenario (you/foolish) that looks unlikely, and prome being mafia in ALL SCENARIOS. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:56 marvellosity wrote: I am not, and have continued to use both.In a not-very-game-related fashion, is anyone other than me suddenly really conscious of how they're writing Wave/WoS ever since Wave mentioned it? I am more interested in Prom v Prome actually. I think it as "Pro-me-thelax" in my head. And so it makes sense to me to generally use "Prome." But if other people read it as "Prah-me-thelax" then I guess Prom makes more sense. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 02:50 Promethelax wrote: I'm just not. Want to look at WoS/Kita again. Then I might push you if you want me to.So why are you not pushing me as mafia and trying to get me lynched? You are niggling on one silly little thing that doesn't mean anything and not trying to cause my lynch when I am 100% confirmed mafia for you. WTF You liked Foolishness's points on Kita and toad. You agreed with them. Which leaves you: foolishness marv austin WoS You said I'm not scum with foolishness. Which leaves you foolishness + (marv OR wos). Right? You've had a LOT of posts actually about conspiracy theory or needing to figure out who could be scum with foolishness. I know I'm not posting my ass off trying to get you lynched, like maybe I ought to. But you've posted a lot about how you want to figure out the third scum. Yet you're not doing that either. So, I'd be really interested in seeing where all the thinking has led you. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 03:15 Toadesstern wrote: If you agree with that set of 3, then your options areaustin can I convince you to vote Foolishness? We've got cookies over here. And you know what happened last time people didn't accept cookies, right? So basicly here's what I think. I agree with your "it's probably between Foo/Marv/Prome", it's what I've been getting at as well. Marv isn't going to get lynched today, agree? Foolishness has been getting heat for a reason this past week. I'm on him, [green]gonzaw[/freen] concluded with "foo buddying toad and using him, foo mafia", Kita who we both agree to be town most likely is on Foo and Marv, the guy known for bussing without any kind of bad conscience is on Foo. Prom as well (i think? votecount please). I like this lynch. This lynch is awesome. You really think we should be voting prom instead or what's up? foolishness/marv foolishness/prome marv/prome out of those three, i think the LEAST likely is foolishness/marv. Marv pushed him a little D1, they didn't play any games where they made cases on each other, fought like hell, lynched one and tried to get the other looking good, blah blah. I think that if you're on board with those three options, then yes, you should vote prome. Because I don't see a less likely scenario than Foolishness/marv, in which case prome is the common denominator. Unless you disagree on what scenario seems wonky. ##vote: Promethelax | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 03:17 Toadesstern wrote: thirsty, dehydrated, parched, actually that has to wait 30 minutes or so... I'm out of water and don't want to... whatever the word for starving but with water is in english. But you can think about it for the time being. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Not taking it for granted is fine, but people had Prome scummy D1, we pretty much backed off on D2 because of sandroba stuff (except VE). I dunno if I agree about prome having the "weakest things" attributed to him, but maybe. I'd flip it around and ask you if he's done anything in particular that made you feel townie on him. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Half-joke vote on Sandroba early. REAL ODD if he's mafia with Sandroba. Nice post on marv, noting how marv treated Foolishness in that champions game, connecting it here. Points out Foolishness's read on Sandroba D1. This had already been brought up, but still looks good for kita. Lotta interaction with sand or posts that mention him on D1. Unvotes sand to vote HF, he had given previous reasons that HF looked scummy (scummy null, to be specific), and gives what feels like an alright reason to swap + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 02:43 kitaman27 wrote: Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful. Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread? I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being. ##Unvote ##Vote Holyflare Towards the D1 lynch, is fine with austin/foolishness/prome/sandroba being the lynch choices. As people are picking specific ones, he's following up (asks Foolishness why Prome over me, what differentiates us). Makes it look like he's really considering. This FEELS TO ME very out of place if Prom or Foolish were mafia with Kita: On January 23 2014 08:09 kitaman27 wrote: Leaving only Kita/marv and kita/WoS? I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not sandroba was the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to save Prom/Foolishness. THERE'S NEAT STUFF FOR ANYONE ON PAGE 49 AND 50? KITA QUESTIONING PROME ABOUT PROME DROPPING KITA WAY DOWN A LIST. MARV ON KITA/SANDROBA. GONZAW ON PROME, AND SPECIFICALLY PROME/SANDROBA. GONZAW CONTINUING TO CALL PROME ON SOME THINGS, MARV DEFENDING PROME. On January 24 2014 23:12 kitaman27 wrote: I really like this post and I think I'm not going any further in kita's filter after it. He grabs a PORTION of a WoS post from a couple minutes earlier, responds in a way that doesn't attack WoS (further thread not, on pg. 64 and 65, just before this, WoS is posting his first giant posts, calling prome scum, and marv again comes in to say that WoS is being weird because of the prome/sand connections he's drawing). Anyway, whatever, kita town.I think in the end you have to push yourself to pick a read even if you're not 100%. I wasn't rock solid on Prom and I had sandro in my top 3 scum list, but I still stuck with my lynch because that was the player I had the best feeling about at the time. It may get me in trouble in the long run, but sitting back and allowing others to determine the fate of the lynch doesn't do you any good when 3/10 of them have an anti-town agenda and the other 7/10 likely are just as puzzled as you. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 04:04 Toadesstern wrote: I mean, I'll gladly respond with what someone who ain't me might do in a given scenario.just recently, I've explained why I'd rather vote foolishness than him. He has a townread on me. He gets angry at me and asks what I'm doing. Why would he be doing that as mafia? Shouldn't be he sitting back in irc laughing and be happy that I'm willing to lynch foolishness over him? You think he'd attack me after everyone and their mom has called me town this cycle, as mafia when I'm voting foolishess instead of being happy to not have any more heat? If he's mafia, he probably doesn't want to be firing off townreads, no. But sentiment on you is changing, and if we flip Foolishness and he's town, it's UNLIKELY to change back (would just give more reason for thread to be townie on you). So he could push you or not, but you feel, right now, unlikely to be the next lynch if we lynch Foolishness and he's town. So there's no real bonus to push you, and I don't think he keeps on doing it. As far as not pushing you. If he's town, he agrees, is cool with you now, thinks you're townie and doesn't attack. If he's mafia, doesn't expect to be able to lynch you, then why keep attacking you? He's focused on trying to get foolish lynched (Again, if foolish town), defending himself somewhat, not on bigger matters. Like...Foolishness was/is on the chopping block today. He comes in and posts a case on Octavious. Octavious is mafia. In that scenario, I see Octavious being VERY VERY VERY FOCUSED on Foolishness. Octavious does not want people coming around because (a) he's mafia and (b) if they lynch him, then Foolishness looks better again. So i THINK, PERSONALLY, that Octavious (here he's Prome) is going to be focused on Foolishness, and on Foolishness v. Himself, and not actually on setting up a candidate for the next day. All of a sudden there's a MUCH MORE REAL possibility that Octavious himself gets lynched, and he needs to fight that fire NOW instead of play for the next day's lynch. Where MUCH MORE REAL is somewhat relative to earlier in the day, when NOBODY was talking about lynching Prome seriously. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But I think there are more villians than there are Spidermans and Spiderpeople, so isn't the mafia faction spiderman and the town faction the villians? Although spiderman is FAR more likely to be doing the lynching. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Starts off poking at Kita about Sandroba. Can go either way. Very much not worried about Foolishness's early vote on him (F voted WoS for his first post) Back and forth with Kita about Sandroba. Scummy points for referencing positively Foolishness's comment on Sandroba engaging the thread actively In this post, if the team is actually marv/sand/prome, WoS accidentally catches the mafia team - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: In relation to what gonzaw just posted, I feel like the above could be applied as well to either marv or snadroba----and actually starts to mesh with the idea that I haven't been feeling anything at all from marv all game aside from a little bit of agreement in some posts that I quoted earlier in my filter. Taking a closer look at marv. WoS, just before his Foolishness vote, has a bunch of posts on Foolishness/prome/marv/sandro. Not trusting Foolishness, who had posted a case-y thing and a vote on Prome. Asking Gonzaw about Gonzaw's vote, wondering whether Gonzaw would prefer marv or sandro. It FEELS legit. He doesn't just sheep Gonzaw's vote, there's a lot of leadup that FEELS townie to me, where WoS is looking at Prome and Foolish a lot but never really doing anything super mega conclusory with them. I like WoS's conclusion that at least one scum was on the Sandroba wagon. It was against the grain, but he's not using it to try and paint anyone in particular as scummy. He just explains WHY he thinks there's a scum or multiple scum on sandroba, says it's unlikely me or gonzaw (for reasons). I really really like his thoughts after the Sandroba lynch. Neato. I feel good about WoS's D1. I like WoS's break in his catchup posts to tell people to stop commenting on fluff in the way that they are. That reads real townie in the middle of his other junk, when he's not attacking anyone in particular, and I like it. I want to stop now. Also, I'm going to. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 04:48 Toadesstern wrote: Yeah but in terms of "Who is most likely to string people up by a rope/thread until they suffocate OR drop them in such a way that their necks snap as the thread springs back up", spiderman wins by a landslide.spiderman does no lynching. Spiderman is the kind of MC where you throw up while he's sprouting righteous stuff into peoples face à la "yeah I get you (Villain) had a bad childhood and I understand why you are trying to do all this. I feel sorry for you but killing newborn babies is bad no matter how bad your childhood was" and you just sit there and think FOR CHIRSTS SAKE JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 05:18 Foolishness wrote: (Except it's also really apparent why you'd do that and the only possible other targets were marv and myself and there were already reasons to be suspicious of him)Yes I did that on purpose. I made no mention of Austin anywhere in my posts yet Austin looks like he's taking the information I provided and is trying to draw conclusions, while Marv is just trying to debunk everything I say (instead of say, analyzing the Promethelax case and looking for connections to the last mafia). Austin knows he's innocent so he didn't read at all into the fact that his name wasn't mentioned, because that wasn't on his mind. Marv noticed it in particular because he knows he's guilty. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Couple posts D1 saying marv is possible. Not the lynch, but possible mafia. Only relevant, and slightly, to associations. I'm okay with Prome + WoS mafia --> WoS responds in a way I like --> Prome. It's the natural progression for either side, but imo it's tougher for mafia to say "one of these two dudes" --> choose one --> end up having that guy look good and go towards the other. For a townie, you just pick your now best scum target. As mafia, you lost a possible mislynch at the time, and you ... dislike that? Foolishness's D1, especially where gonzaw questions him, reads MORE like a townie response than the scummy one - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 05:07 Foolishness wrote: Bringing light to the fact that your post was incredibly weird minus the last two sentences. It was really odd, and I don't think I'm the only one who said so. You're town and we all know it. Don't pull a gonzaw. 1) I explained why I kept my vote on WoS, since then he has responded and I liked what he said. He's being very affirmative and speaking his thoughts. When I first accused him early in the day I thought the opposite of this (also explained in my earlier posts). Now he's here, he's posting, and he's trying for the town. And that's the direction I started to lean towards when I made my big post. My vote on WoS was to affirm this suspicion, and also to get other people to comment on it. 2) Don't know what you're exactly referring to. But you were being trolly at the start of the day and it was impossible to know what your motives were. Your motives are clear now. As I also said in my recent post, you dying would answer a lot of questions. Not that that's going to happen anytime soon (or ever really). 3) Promethelax is scum. WoS probably not. Read above. 4) Nope. ##Unvote ##Vote: Promethelax Foolishness's comment on Sandroba looking better because of activity is scummy. His first response to people asking about that is to me, the "speaks volumes" post. I look better for continuing to post, Sandroba looks scummier for not. He does NOT AT ALL address the fact that Sandroba was not really active, knows he only posted a couple times. I don't love that either. Continues minor harping on marv D1. Gonzaw asks about whether Foolishness would lynch marv or sandro. Foolishness says both, while calling out marv's posting. Again, for association purposes, makes the two together unlikely. Calls me out here: On January 23 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote: There's no way this sandroba lynch is good. Also "Back. Caught up and also read Prome. Fine with a prome lynch." - Austin Except I'd also said I was fine voting Sand. This was a point against him earlier, because he doesn't appear to be reading all my posts, he's just grabbing something and throwing it, trying to scare people off of sand. I still don't like it. BUT BUT BUT this post makes no sense if the team is Foolishness/sandroba/prome. Foolishness wants to push a prome lynch, FINE. Dandy. But Foolishness, if the team is sand/prome/foolishness, PROBABLY has a hard time really making me look shady after this. He knows BOTH are mafia. Is the one thing he really grabs a quote from a guy who said he would vote either of those two? Doesn't he do...something different? Like, prome flips mafia. And on D2, sand...does nothing again? He's probably still on the block. If Foolishness is TRYING to make me look bad here and put me up for lynch D2, or discredit me, he's going to have trouble, because Sandroba is, in all likelihood, still gonna get lynched at some point. I don't think scum foolishness, on THAT team, makes that post. I don't think mafia Foolishness is so insistent on the "kill these 4 players" plan. I know people took issue with it, knowing that if they were mostly town or all town scum Foolishness magically wins the game. This discounts the fact that: (1) people didn't trust Foolishness, so had NO REASON to actually follow his plan, it's not a way for scum to win the game because holy crap nobody is going down that list on Foolishness's say-so; and (2) there's at least some reason to back up that list. (1) being more important than (2). Gonzaw was poking at Foolishness during N2. Gonzaw got killed. i THINK this is mildly mildly townie. (1) Foolishness spends a LOT of the night cycle, most of his posts, going back and forth with Gonzaw. Critical of Gonzaw. In general, this is more likely to mean that he's town, given that scum was gonna kill Gonzaw (not 100%, and it's a rule that mafia can and SHOULD exploit by talking a bunch about their NK target). (2) Could be scummy because who wants gonzaw dead? The guy gonzaw is being really critical of! (3) Point 2 can be WIFOMed (and should!). It's not the greenest of filters to me. But i THINK that in that group of 3, foolishness is the town. The NK, the post about me during the D1 lynch. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Yesterday I was really weirded out by people doing a 180 on you, and VE wasn't dead and green. It's relevant because my analysis and vote come down to thinking kita and you are town, and I wanted to make sure that was the case with a reread.Phoneposting cause this weirded me out Wtf waste of time is this. Why is your read on me impoortant right now? Why is it all based on D1 play when you coiuld have come to the same conclusions yesterday BUT YESTERDAY YOU THOUGHT I WAS SCUM Foolishness I am not the key to this game. You are. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Toad is on board here with marv/prome/foolishness, pick 2 WoS or kita, are you as well? Regardless, here's how that set of 3 people plays out! marv/foolishness OR prome/foolishness OR marv/prome (1) marv + foolishness marv attacks foolishness on D1, because of Foolishness's sandroba comments. That's a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Foolishness attacks marv on D1 for not doing much, again, a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Does it make sense? It does if they go "jesus we're going to look weird if we're around at endgame, we need to sacrifice one or two of us to get one guy to endgame." They drop sandroba, giving marv credit, but keeping foolishness and marv at odds. Overall though, i find this UNLIKELY, because it seems like a terrible plan to START THE GAME thinking you're going to lynch your buddies and set yourselves apart. Their D1s, both posting that the other looks scummy, and continuing to harp on that, make it look like they are NOT mafia together. (2) prome + foolishness Town had the bestest D1 EVER? And again, from D1, foolishness and prome are calling each other mafia and setting themselves apart? Then Foolishnes is going "prome is the best lynch" --> I was wrong, prome likely town --> Prome is the best lynch? What does this accomplish for that team? Two scenarios. In one, they want PROME lynched and Foolishness alive. Foolishness gets a little town cred, maybe doesn't get lynched tomorrow. But here's the deal. He needs TWO mislynches. He's basically locked into not lynching Kita or Toad. So he goes for marv ezpz, after prome flips. Fine. Then Foolishness only has myself/WoS to go after. He's gone hard back to WoS is town, and is continuing to state that, push that, today when he just got back to thread. If he needs WoS as a mislynch, I don't think he reinforces the idea that he finds WoS townie. If he wants to go after me, he probably doesn't keep halfway buddying me. I think that this plan makes 0 sense. ESPECIALLY because the plan is "have Foolishness survive until endgame and secure a mislynch." Townies are going to be really creeped out by a living Foolishness at that point, ESPECIALLY after Foolishness worked so hard to get prome lynched. It just doesn't work. So the other scenario. They want FOOLISHNESS lynched today. Prome lives. MAYBE some people give him credit for Foolishness attacking him, who knows. Prome now needs two mislynches. He can get me killed pretty easily, because of my defending foolishness and conduct today. His other mislynch is ... more open. HE can go after toad or kita easier than Foolishness can, saying Foolishness is dicking town around with one of those reads. He can go after WoS, saying WoS looks weird for Foolishness coming back to town on him and really not trying hard to get WoS lynched over VE. Prome has way way way more options to win the game than Foolishness does. It looks LESS WEIRD if prome is around at endgame, and he has more choices. A mafia team of prome + foolishness HAS AN EASIER TIME OF WINNING if we lynch foolishness and not prome. (3) prome + marv In this case, we don't want to lynch Foolishness If you think that the remaining mafia are within foolishness/promethelax/marv, then you should be lynching promethelax. Because in one scenario, Foolishness is town. In one scenario, BOTH are mafia, but mafia has an EASIER TIME WINNING if we lynch Foolishness and not promethelax. The ONLY reason you should be voting Foolishness, IF you think mafia is in those three, is if you think the team is Foolishness + marv. I find that team very very unlikely, given how they'd played and interacted. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:22 WaveofShadow wrote: yesIs austin fighting this lynch? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:25 marvellosity wrote: Why lynch sandroba on D1 instead of Foolishness then?no austin, you should be lynching the absolute strongest read, period. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Nonono, sorry. This is only relevant to marv's D1 swap.Because foolishness was kind of up in the air still. I assume people didn't realize hed be playing the whole game as strangely as his D1. Plus shenannies are fun He was on Foolishness, because Foolishness was mafia. Foolishness was mafia, in part, because he wasn't voting sandroba, who was also scummy. He had made a LOT of comments about Foolishness. But as far as Sandroba goes, he has comments like: On January 22 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote: Wave looks better, for obvious reasons Prome is looking worse by default sandroba is looking worse by default Your recent posts look quite ok plus none of my townreads are interested in you Holy looks bad because I have no idea what he is doing with the blatantly town Hapa Within those 3. Maybe sand gets another day for being sand. Prome/Holy. Want both to post. He REALLY gets on sand's case a little via Foolishness - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 06:19 marvellosity wrote: austin: Paranoia, but I had to cheat So what the fuck is going on here? In the first post, Foolishness is "sandroba's entrance was fine" - I believe this was picked up by multiple people who questioned it - and we never got an answer as far as I can see from Foolish's filter, despite being asked by more than one person (pls don't say i missed it thanks). Also that sandroba is fine as long as he continues posting. sandroba has not continued posting. So... moving on with Foolish's posts, he prefers to lynch me over sandroba on a "general feeling", despite the fact that by his own metric he should really want to be lynching sandroba pretty fucking hard right now. sand asked Foolish (and me T.T) some really random question, and then in the 2nd post follows this up by randomly tacking Foolish on as someone who is "maybe" giving him scumvibes, as an afterthought. Scum/scum? (connection bad blabla, not going to lynch on this). Actually Foolish's posts towards sandroba are exceptionally weak and contradictory in that he's basically not following through on his promises to bust sandroba's ass, which he really should be if sandroba is only fine if he continues posting - and sandroba was only fine in the first place because his posts showed some thought (did they really?)Foolish has kinda rumbled that sand is mafia but... yeah. Let me show something from Liar Game analysis: sandroba is now in marv's bottom 2 people, with NO comment other than the foolishness stuff - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 06:33 marvellosity wrote: Quick cheat list: Sexy mofos: marv Hapa gonzaw Mildly attractive mofos: VisceraEyes WaveofShadow austinmcc Totally ignoring this mofo for now: Holyflare Could be attractive, but i don't like his shoes mofo: kitaman27 Possibly unattractive, pending mofo: Promethelax Ugly mofos: Foolishness sandroba 1. Foolishness 2. Marvellosity 3. Promethelax 4. Austinmcc 5. Sandroba 6. VisceraEyes 7. Kitaman27 8. HolyFlare 9. Hapahauli 10. Gonzaw 11. WaveofShadow Then with an hour to go, he wants to lynch sand for doing nothing for town - + Show Spoiler + On January 23 2014 07:06 marvellosity wrote: Why don't we just kill the dude who doesn't care about town after all? Kinda curious that Fool has 4 ppl as likely mafia (Prome, holy, me, sand) but...willing to test him on sand for now. ##Vote: sandroba sandroba comes BACK and posts on promethelax, votes him. This is marv's current lynch target. marv makes ZERO mention of sandroba's return to thread, even though not helping town was the reason sandroba was mafia. marv makes ZERO mention of it at all, except to say that he doesn't like a Prome lynch because sand and foolishness are on it. He then unvotes sandroba to vote Foolishness again (19 minutes to lynch). Then back to sand (5 minutes). If marv dislikes sand and Foolishness, fine. But MOST of his posts have been about Foolishness looking bad. He doesn't really come out earlier and call sandroba mafia, and he doesn't respond to sandroba coming into thread at 11th hour and voting prome/writing about prome. Marv doesn't want prome lynched, but when the vote is 5 Foolishness / 3 Prome / 2 Sand / 1 Gonzaw, he unvotes Foolishness to vote sandroba. Making it 4/3/3/1, and in a game full of shennanies, SLIGHTLY more likely that prome gets lynched by a single vote swap, which couldn't have happened in a 5/3/2/1 world. It's not ENTIRELY about "voting your strongest scum suspect," it's PARTIALLY about the rest of what I think is wrong with marv's D1 voting. He's swapping his vote multiple times in the last little bit. He's doing so without ever really calling sandroba out previously, when he HAS been calling Foolishness out. In swapping his vote, he makes a dude he doesn't want lynched a little more likely to be lynched. And he just skates over Sandroba's return to thread after a long absence, sandroba's comments on prome, despite the fact that he's voting sandroba at that point, then unvotes him, then votes him again. I just don't fully buy marv's suspicions and his vote swapping on D1 at the deadline and marv making a comment about voting your strongest scum suspect triggers me poking around that. It's not 1:1, with "but foolishness was your strongest suspect and yet you voted sandroba." That's not valid. But i think that marv's D1 is wonky and his strongest suspect comment set me off. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Don't read the votes then. Read marv's comments on Sandroba D1, and his comments on Foolishness D1.Austin I think I'm just not going to read that post at all. Fuck vote D1 vote analysis. Then tell me if you understand why I would ask him about that vote when he tells me to vote the strongest scumread. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 06:57 kitaman27 wrote: I like this one less than prome v. foolish Suppose we had a hypothetical situation where I wouldn't want to lynch Prom, but I'd consider marv. Otherwise, I'd vote foolishness. Show of hands, who would support that and who would oppose it? Brb, 45 mins. Between the two, right now, I'd vote marv. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:08 marvellosity wrote: I'm not attempting to.Again, why are you comparing day 1 to day 3? They aren't the same I'm trying to compare your D1 to this comment of yours - On January 29 2014 06:25 marvellosity wrote: no austin, you should be lynching the absolute strongest read, period. I can't help that you posted it D3. I don't care about your D3 vote in this case, I care about D1 vote and that comment. Because I don't see sandroba being your strongest scumread on D1. AND IF ANYONE IS CONVINCED BY THIS AND ONLY THIS THEY ARE ... NOT LOOKING AT THE RIGHT STUFF But if you really think you always vote your strongest scumread, period, then I don't understand your D1 vote at all. They contradict each other, imo, and it's in a way that I don't like. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
THERE HAVE BEEN ENOUGH PORK CHOP DAY/NIGHTPOSTS. I DEMAND A SPROUT-THEMED VIDEO! | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:14 marvellosity wrote: Well your comment didn't sayBecause day 3 is not day 1 Are you being purposefully obtuse? You can find plenty of games of mine where I day 1 shenannie. No games where I am not voting my strongest read day 3. It's exceptionally simple to understand "We should be lynching the scummiest player, period, but only on Days after 1" or anything like that. It made it sound like this was a hard and fast rule you wanted to enforce always. On January 29 2014 07:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Note for my filter for later: Aside from austin being missing a lot, notably his jovial trolly nature has been missing too. Must compare some games. Generally more jovial in town games recently than scum? Off the top of my head, I got a little trolly in Chrono Trigger but ONLY on the last day (see my post about old me and martial arts), and I was very jovial in PTP: Demon's Run, posting at VE about how bears were going to eat him and about how bears were evil and all that jazz. I think GENERALLY though, more jovial in town games? Not entirely sure on that. I've had srs town games and some jovial scum games, and i THINK i was jovial in scum games regardless of the situation (i believe i was pretty happy and jokey in PTP even when it looked like i couldn't win). | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:18 marvellosity wrote: Agreed. I'm behaving oddly for either alignment this game, but I know that today has been really off for my towngame.austin if you're town you are behaving exceptionally oddly | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:25 Toadesstern wrote: If you believe this, why foolishness over prome?There's been too much chaos. There's 2 mafias within Foo/Prome/Marv. We're staying on this lynch right now and keep on lynching Prome/Marv tomorrow. Simple as that + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2014 06:25 austinmcc wrote: KITAMAN'S COMBINATRICS CRAP Toad is on board here with marv/prome/foolishness, pick 2 WoS or kita, are you as well? Regardless, here's how that set of 3 people plays out! marv/foolishness OR prome/foolishness OR marv/prome (1) marv + foolishness marv attacks foolishness on D1, because of Foolishness's sandroba comments. That's a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Foolishness attacks marv on D1 for not doing much, again, a lot of mafia on mafia on mafia interaction. Does it make sense? It does if they go "jesus we're going to look weird if we're around at endgame, we need to sacrifice one or two of us to get one guy to endgame." They drop sandroba, giving marv credit, but keeping foolishness and marv at odds. Overall though, i find this UNLIKELY, because it seems like a terrible plan to START THE GAME thinking you're going to lynch your buddies and set yourselves apart. Their D1s, both posting that the other looks scummy, and continuing to harp on that, make it look like they are NOT mafia together. (2) prome + foolishness Town had the bestest D1 EVER? And again, from D1, foolishness and prome are calling each other mafia and setting themselves apart? Then Foolishnes is going "prome is the best lynch" --> I was wrong, prome likely town --> Prome is the best lynch? What does this accomplish for that team? Two scenarios. In one, they want PROME lynched and Foolishness alive. Foolishness gets a little town cred, maybe doesn't get lynched tomorrow. But here's the deal. He needs TWO mislynches. He's basically locked into not lynching Kita or Toad. So he goes for marv ezpz, after prome flips. Fine. Then Foolishness only has myself/WoS to go after. He's gone hard back to WoS is town, and is continuing to state that, push that, today when he just got back to thread. If he needs WoS as a mislynch, I don't think he reinforces the idea that he finds WoS townie. If he wants to go after me, he probably doesn't keep halfway buddying me. I think that this plan makes 0 sense. ESPECIALLY because the plan is "have Foolishness survive until endgame and secure a mislynch." Townies are going to be really creeped out by a living Foolishness at that point, ESPECIALLY after Foolishness worked so hard to get prome lynched. It just doesn't work. So the other scenario. They want FOOLISHNESS lynched today. Prome lives. MAYBE some people give him credit for Foolishness attacking him, who knows. Prome now needs two mislynches. He can get me killed pretty easily, because of my defending foolishness and conduct today. His other mislynch is ... more open. HE can go after toad or kita easier than Foolishness can, saying Foolishness is dicking town around with one of those reads. He can go after WoS, saying WoS looks weird for Foolishness coming back to town on him and really not trying hard to get WoS lynched over VE. Prome has way way way more options to win the game than Foolishness does. It looks LESS WEIRD if prome is around at endgame, and he has more choices. A mafia team of prome + foolishness HAS AN EASIER TIME OF WINNING if we lynch foolishness and not prome. (3) prome + marv In this case, we don't want to lynch Foolishness If you think that the remaining mafia are within foolishness/promethelax/marv, then you should be lynching promethelax. Because in one scenario, Foolishness is town. In one scenario, BOTH are mafia, but mafia has an EASIER TIME WINNING if we lynch Foolishness and not promethelax. The ONLY reason you should be voting Foolishness, IF you think mafia is in those three, is if you think the team is Foolishness + marv. I find that team very very unlikely, given how they'd played and interacted. Do you disagree with my conclusion? Or you think that it's not worth lynching based on that conclusion, and you're just set on Foolishness whether it makes the most sense out of those three or no. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:45 Toadesstern wrote: If prome is town, I assume you think Foolishness is mafia 100%?the latter. I want this cleared up for now. If prome is mafia...foolishness likely town but not certain? I know that lynching A to clear up B sounds smelly, and isn't conclusory, but i THINK things are mostly cleared up with either lynch, and I think prome puts us in the best position. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(4) Repeats the second half of (2) but bolded, marv has been VERY backseatish this game, and even has noted once or twice that he might need to take control of things, yet he never actually does. Even when arguing the prome v foolishness lynch today, he's happy to just comment and argue, but he never really tries to impose his will on this lynch. (5) I really hope that I'm seeing things correctly today | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:55 marvellosity wrote: Is this a question to me, or a question to everyone else as to whether you've been different?Am I in a different day 3 to everyone else? Who else has been pushing shit today like I have? I don't think you've been PUSHING. FiveTouch thought i was town, but was smacking down my suggestions and reads in that mayoral game, and FORCING the town to do what he wanted. Marv in other past games has been a little more shove-y when he thinks he's right and others are wrong. In this game, you appear to think you're right and that i'm wrong, but you're just...telling me I'm wrong, and chatting with me, and I don't feel the PRESSURE from you to conform to your way of thinking. And I don't feel that same PRESSURE from you towards others, although that may be just me. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
gg Foolishness | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm interested in whether people believe Foolishness was correct or no, because him being town Foolishness doesn't mean he was right. Is there a particular person (wave probably, more than kita or toad, and I guess possibly me if you're not me and don't know my alignment) that you think he was wrong on that would screw up things being prome + marv? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 09:47 WaveofShadow wrote: D2 is a confusing time for the young austin.Um. Do you read? Everything he called me townie for in that post is from D1. Why did he call me scum on D2 if he found my D1 townie? But after he enters his cocoon and emerges way too late into D3, he hopefully finds his way and stumbles into the world, blinking. Then he...learns to fly or something? Just read it in an Attenborough voice. My D2 was also poopy, and I was more concerned with VE as a lynch than you. Thus the vote on him. A LOT of why I was very critical of you was for the same reason I was really critical of foolishness during N1/D2. Because of what the rest of the thread was doing. I think thread let Foolishness off too easy after the D1 lynch. He had some WEIRD interactions with sandroba, and they were more than enough for me to not want him on any safe lynch. I think thread let you off too easy D2, because there WERE some people posting that you were town just because you were active. If prome is mafia, then I'm going to feel SOMEWHAT justified in saying you shouldn't be let off the hook for just activity, because prome was either one person or the only person who said your activity made you townie without anything more. At the very least, if prome is mafia then HOPEFULLY I make a little more sense in my insistence that you weren't magically cleared because you'd posted a bunch. I'm just not good at taking the non-lazy step and going "well who actually exhibited this behavior." (See LXIII, where I post a whole friggin' STREAM of "things I find scummy that someone might have done" or "things I think scum might have done", and then follow up on MAYBE half of them). So a LOT of my criticality of you was because of rest of thread. I didn't care what you'd done, I cared that people were taking this REALLY easy way out of actually talking about you. As far as otherwise being on your case but NOT reading you carefully and saying you were town, I dunno. You weren't my lynch. I was comfortable enough with VE that I didn't go back and read you as hard. Felt very very cozy yesterday. Less cozy today, and ESPECIALLY less cozy after watching things develop and seeing Foolishness's posts, and a way to work my misgivings about marv into Foolishness's posts. The moment you REALLY chop kita and toad out of possible scummers (and with VE dead), the landscape changes a LOT. Reading you became much more important to me, in order to see if the remaining three really had dem mafias. ALSO ONCE PROME AND I STARTED TALKING RIGHT AS I GOT ACTIVE I WAS BEING SUPER CREEPED OUT BY HIM AND I PROBABLY HAD BOATLOADS OF CONFIRMATION BIAS WANTING HIM TO BE SCUM AND FOOLISH TOWN AND I NEEDED YOU TO LOOK TOWNIE IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT SO I GENEROUSLY READ YOUR FILTER WITH TOWNIE SHADES ON? That's part of it. I do think your D1 looks townie in retrospect, but I was ALSO kinda hoping it would and looking for that today, whereas I wouldn't have yesterday. Also - + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fUSfWLnl.jpg) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 10:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh. THIS. Read the question I'm responding to.Oh heeeeere it is. The entire reason for his scumread is because of my posts on VE and Prome (which apparently should be a-ok in everyone's books according to town-Foolishness now)? Well THAT explains why Austin thinks I'm town now! Foolishness said it was ok and he flipped town! LOL AND THE BLODED He calls me scum based on my D1 here and now he calls me town based on it.... Austin/Prome scumteam? I hope to god that makes sense when I look through it later. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Apart from that, interested to hear from prome about all the later-in-the-day happenings. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 10:43 WaveofShadow wrote: Read the question I'm responding to with THAT POST.So....you're trying to play it off as a semi-joke post or an 'exercise' not rooted in reality? Because you seemed pretty serious about thinking I was scum to me. If the whole rest of the day gives you trouble, that's a different issue. But if THAT POST is particularly egregious, that post is in response to a question that says, "I don't see it, someone tell me how WoS could be mafia." When responding to that, I'm going to post why you might be mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Thought there was a pretty good chance?Did you or did you not think I was scum for a portion of that day? That day, I would have put you above prome, gonzaw, kita, toad, myself. Lower than VE. PROBABLY higher than marv, he hadn't gone full suspicious for me yet. You were with Foolishness as possible second mafia. But honestly I wasn't too concerned about your alignment that day. My main concern about you was how people were referring to your activity, not your own alignment. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 11:06 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah, I understand completely. As second place scum you should be concerned about me. Everybody else was concerned about the entire scumteam. Do you understand why this looks so dodgy to me? You are making excuses and trying to pass your scumread off as 'not really a legit read because it doesn't matter but maybe I would have lynched you.' That's why I'm actually explaining and not going "LOL WRONG" or "I changed my mind" or whatever. I think you have a legitimate point. I can give you SOME of the reasons, especially to that single post. I think if you look at my posting from that day as a whole, i DON'T have you as townie, but I certainly don't have you there with VE. MOST of the statements I make regarding your scumminess should be concern for other people being overly townie on you, which causes me to swing the other way, or be skeptical. I don't believe, however, that I freely post about why you're mafia or why you're super likely mafia, or whatever. But yeah, it's perfectly fine if you're concerned. I'm also not super worried, because I don't think that I'm the lynch tomorrow under any normal circumstances, and i THINK that if things are falling into place for us and we lynch scum, you will be concerned with my play, confused with my play, but think that I have to be townie. I don't care if you question me or are worried by me, only that you give prome a real loo. Giving prome/marv a real look as a duo would be sexy as well, as giving OTHER people a real look would be further sexy. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 20:35 marvellosity wrote: Not well. It just hasn't tickled my fancy. Probably the same reason as the lack of joviality? I think a combination of being pretty much unlynchable (and properly read) after the sandroba lynch + lynching scum D1 + the player list left me just uninterested in the game until that back half of D3.Yeah... just... mm. Can you explain why at all austin? This is more so it's here for me to muse on when I feel like it at some point. Easier to do mechanical work when your mojo is slightly deflated :p I do think that part of the back half of D3 looked much more like myself. As far as some of what you specifically were noticing, my read on you super changed with the brainz comment. You remember how I mentioned in the invader zim game that, at some point in the game, I just had that feeling you were scum because of the questions you were asking? The brainz comment set off that same warning. I hadn't looked hard at you yet, just had the low level minor suspicions about stuff, but that comment changed things and I interacted with you, instead of playing the "oh ha ha, marv disagrees about something ELSE" game, I played the "oh, marv is scum this game, why is he disagreeing with this and what is he hiding" game. Won't feel like the normal banter. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 20:28 Promethelax wrote: I'm interested in you actually saying what this means, specifically.We lynch austin tomorrow. This is not even a debate. He had a scummy switch to sand d1 he has played under the radar. He was the only vote not on foolishness d3. Austin's behaviour has been scummy the only reason he wasn't scum is that he and fool were not scum together. I'm ALSO interested in your thoughts on toad, given these posts: On January 29 2014 02:50 kitaman27 wrote: I don't see it as a flip/flop. I have no doubt that Foolishness spent a huge amount of time on those posts. If you don't find yourself wanting to believe he is town to some degree, then something is wrong. Things don't need to need to be black and white, so if Toad finds something suspicious about you, but feels the overall case against Foolishness is stronger, then I'm not as concerned. Are you looking at toad and wondering: "whoa he sure looks confident about me being mafia based on that point he made. Why is he voting Foolishness?" On January 29 2014 02:54 Promethelax wrote: You had a bunch of votes critical of toad. ONE of the things you disliked, is that he seemed to find Foolishness AND yourself scummy, even though you were both each other's targets, and probably not both scum.Essentially yes. He seems more confidant about me being scum than he seems based on his case/vote. I don't see his work today being an attempt to discern my alignment, instead he called me scummy and voted my target who he said was also scummy but I had posted bad posts and Fool had posted good posts. I don't follow. Toad continued to waffle during D3, wondering whether he should switch, etc. At the end of D3, you knew that Foolishness was town. Which meant that toad was scummy on two people who appeared mutually exclusive, but voted the townie dude and kept you alive. if YOU actually think you're townie, you think toad was just sitting back yesterday looking between two townies, and not really trying to differentiate the two, happy to call them both scummy. But I am the super mega awesome lynch for tomorrow? Why no comments on toad? Does he look worse now to you? (Rest of the thread I'm only interested in prome's answer as to what he saw and why he's targeting me over a dude he seems to have been scummy on) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 29 2014 20:55 Promethelax wrote: I'm also interested in this!I did. His and marv's were both scummy. Sand is a detriment to his team. When he is up against two townies in me and foolishness you need to make sure you look good from his flip because it will come d1 or d2. So quick switching around deadline when I had clearly had foolish as more scummy and Hapa wasn't present was an easy way to do that. Scum expected not to get sand lynched d1 but to look good from having voted him but Hapa and I went over in the last two minutes and scum could not change their votes, they were stuck on sand. The middle votes were scummy. On top of that the scum shots have all been into the group of players who voted sand to reinforce the idea that everyone on that vote was town. Shooting outside of it would have been fine to eliminate players like Kita who had no suspicion on him and is a better analyst than Gonzaw. But they needed the idea of fool's to take hold. Just marv and mine? Hapa's vote not, your vote not? Marv's vote is scummy but marv isn't scummy, despite multiple people saying that marv feels off? You find marv townie this game and are confident in his alignment? You also think scum, in a game with town foolishness, and what you're saying is town marv (i think), and a bunch of other strong townies, used NKs not on active players, not on players who had correct reads, but...on players who voted scum D1 so as to reinforce that the D1 lynch was on scum? Like...you're suggesting that scum says "Good job team! We killed sandroba D1, now nobody will suspect us!" And then, instead of just playing NORMAL GAMES, after lynching scum D1, they decided that nobody would ACTUALLY believe in the lynch UNLESS they started flipping townies on the lynch. Can you point us to a single solitary game in which scum got lynched D1 and the voters got NO cred whatsoever? Can you point us to a single solitary game in which scum got lynched D1 by scum when there was no need to, and the rest of the thread went "Oh man, those guys who lynched scum sure look scummy, we better not trust them AT ALL"? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote: It's a great game for playing wonky scum.There's always a first time, austin. If anything considering how terrified I know people were of rolling scum in this game because of how stacked the playerlist was, I would argue this game was the PERFECT game for unorthodox scumplays. I'm also pretty sure I've said allllll of this before. But, to me, he's not pushing the idea that scum just played weird/unorthodox. He's giving a specific reason for their targeting of NKs. And that reason is "there was scum on the sandroba lynch, and mafia is killing the townies on the sandroba lynch to make it look like it was all town." To which I say: (1) One guy on the lynch flipping town doesn't make the others look more town. They're town/scum based on their own play and filters, not the alignment of someone ELSE who voted the same target. (2) I think people who lynch scum get town cred for LYNCHING SCUM. The moment sandroba is lynched, look at thread, the people on his lynch were "untouchable", etc. It wasn't "well let's wait and see if 2-3 of these guys flip town, and only THEN can we trust the sandroba lynch was townie." It's NEVER like that. I think his comment doesn't say "i think scum is playing unorthodox," because a D1 bus would be somewhat unorthodox. I think that I'm having problems with the fact that he's ... saying scum played a certain way in order to manipulate town's opinion, when (a) town would already have the opinion they want without any further manipulation and (b) the manipulation wouldn't actually change the opinion he's talking about. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(or the fact that yesterday, prome posts a whole big case on me, except he doesn't actually care about my alignment, only whether or not i'm scum with foolishness. Prome ends up reading my filter and concluding nothing about my alignment itself, only that I'm not scum with foolishness. Then he posts stuff like: On January 28 2014 23:44 Promethelax wrote: Except he was also super tunneled and seemingly sure that foolishness was scum. And again, he still hasn't actually come to a real conclusion about me, just that I'm not scum with foolishness, which is actually not an alignment)I'm not necessarily discounting Austin as scum but I am discounting austin/fool as scum together. (or the fact that after reading my filter, he doesn't remember that I posted a bunch of posts on why people saying WoS was town for "activity" alone could be mafia and I didn't like it, doesn't see why those posts are relevant to himself for saying WoS town for activity) (or the fact that he doesn't appear to know his own filter, because I challenge you to find some solid reasons for his change on WoS from being scum to being town On January 29 2014 00:38 Promethelax wrote: You sure you've been reading this cycle? I spelled out my reasons for not finding WoS scummy earlier. ) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote: Shhhhhh. You'll scare the prome. We're over here hiding in the bushes, you can't go scampering around in the serengeti just yet.no, that's not how the case read to me. Did you go back and read it? He basically called off the case at the end of it because he (weirdly) decided you couldn't be scum with Foolish. Snippets from the case: You can have issues with the case, but not because he wasn't looking individually at you or your alignment, that's wrong. One interesting thing about the case is that he goes from to I'm quite curious to hear how you view the 2 quotes as a thought process or whatever, austin. We're gonna get him thread with all sorts of other questions, like who in the world the two scum are, why me today instead of other scumreads of his who then voted town yesterday, etc. etc. Then we're gonna get specific about the idea of me bussing, because I believe I was the first to ask Foolishness about his sandroba read in his first reads post, and I called out Sandroba on the prome PYP: LoL comparison before prome did. But as far as those two quotes go, I would say that prome is pulling a portion of his reads from his butt, and has been perfectly happy all game to say that two people doing the same single thing are of different alignment for no reason/little reason. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote: Except that his overall conclusion is "austinmcc cannot be scum with foolishness"no, that's not how the case read to me. Did you go back and read it? He basically called off the case at the end of it because he (weirdly) decided you couldn't be scum with Foolish. Snippets from the case: You can have issues with the case, but not because he wasn't looking individually at you or your alignment, that's wrong. One interesting thing about the case is that he goes from to I'm quite curious to hear how you view the 2 quotes as a thought process or whatever, austin. Not that I'm SUPER SCUMMY, so he needs to look at Foolishness again, because I've got to be scum. If he finds a bunch of SCUMMY stuff in my filter, and he finds that foolishness and I can't be scum together, then the conclusion is not "austinmcc can't be scum with foolishness." It's "austin looks REALLY scummy, but foolishness looks more scummy because of _______, and I don't think they're scum together, so austin must be town despite looking scummy?" or it's "Foolishness looks scummy, but austin can't be scum with foolishness, and austin looks REALLY SCUMMY, so I need to reassess foolishness, maybe see if thread wants to lynch austinmcc instead" There may be lines that say I do scummy stuff, but if his conclusion is that we can't be scum together and he's voting foolishness and sure on foolishness, he HAS to be grudgingly concluding that I'm town, or that he's wrong on foolishness. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On Austinber 42 2002 11:11 Promethelax wrote: I need to work on my scumgame. Every time I play scum, I start my first post with "Okay broskis, this is just silly." I can't help it. On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something. Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen. I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies. And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum. Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
but no. I tried to make one in paint, but there's not a good cartoon head that fits. So this is all you get p.s. google image searching assorted terms with charles barkley and dunk leads to good things | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 02:51 WaveofShadow wrote: You should have laughed at that.austin stop trying to make up for not being trolly earlier. Not only does this not help, but it looks shitty because everyone else pointed it out. + Show Spoiler + Unless you actually make me laugh with something. Also, can't help it. I got interested yesterday. I'm now EXTRA interested. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 03:05 kitaman27 wrote: I still cut toad out entirely.marv, do you think Prom + austin makes sense? Or is toad still the other? austin, do you think think Prom + marv is the best pair, under that assumption that Prom flips mafia 100% of the time? That leaves me prome / marv prome /wos prome / kita prome sort of halfway on kita nuts for part of D1, N1. Also asks about abandoning combinatrics, and if he wants to distance self from kita I think he picks something REAL and scummy that kita has done, not "why did you give up on your nonsense that also might have been helpful?" He calls out a scumslip when kita refers to town doing something. It's not perfect, but given my current feelings about kita (not scum in his own right), I don't see a kita/prome team. Prome mentions kita plenty, changes a read on kita, but the interactions don't appear to be accomplishing anything. I don't think we have the prome + wos/VE thingy on D1 if wos is mafia? There was a lot of interaction between prome/WoS, WoS being critical of prome going after VE instead of himself, and the subject of that bit was sandroba, and I don't THINK getting everyone lumped in together so early makes sense. He's got things in his filter that take me to frown town ---> positive reference of sandroba being active, odd VE town read, but on the whole, i personally lean towards thinking that prome doesn't jump on VE D1 for talking about sandroba when WoS has talked about sandroba the same way. It would be a BIG oversight on prome's part, I think, to accuse the townie of doing something when your scumbuddy has done the same thing, then to (imo) scummily make up a fake reason for what you just did, all while the subject of the conduct that received differential treatment was your THIRD and FINAL scumbuddy. I don't like that as a fit. That takes me to marv as the likeliest, just based on those things? Some of the reason I like that pairing is marv's play this game, and specifically that one question, cause me to lean scum on him regardless of possible matchups. marv also ... covers a good bit for prome early? Prome is an arch-bullshitter (to VE), with ludicrous reasons but not scummy reasons. He has some misgivings about Prome's filter when chatting with VE, but doesn't find prome scummy. When asked what he thinks about prome treating VE/WoS differently by me, given choices of prome being silly/giving a false reason/having no reason, he goes with 3. Yet prome GAVE a reason. So essentially, marv thinks that prome had no reason, but manufactured the "curious question" reason, yet finds it not surprising at all, because prome has bad/weak/scummy starts to games. Again, prome is doing scummy stuff, but that is natural for town prome, sayeth the marv. (I can keep going and going, but a lot of my posts cover marv/prome yesterday, and also I'd rather let other people look for themselves because I keep typign like this and not giving a bunch of quotes and crap). So yes. Right now I'm marv + prome > wos + prome > kita + prome. (seriously read marv's filter, even just searching for prome. If you want to make the actions fit a narrative, scum sees prome a likely lynch, marv is working on foolishness trying to get him to lynch sandroba INSTEAD of prome, all while trying to discredit foolishness a little. Prome was scummy but likely town because he was scummy, then he was scummier by default for not posting, then come lynch time he's not a good lynch because of the people voting him, then he's town on balance because of buddying marv, with 9 minutes to go until lynch. lots of mind-changing without ever really saying much) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Then when he asks about conspiracy theories and I point out that I thought he wanted to talk about marv being scum, he asks why scum marv would do what he did (assuming prome was town), and entirely drops the matter. He doesn't follow up on the reasons marv might be scum, even the ones he's given. He doesn't chat about why scummarv would do things even in a world where prome is town. He appears to not actually care AT ALL about the fact that he's suspicious of marv and someone else is wanting to talk about the possibility of scummarv. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 03:42 marvellosity wrote: Very rarely if at all. Off the top of my head, you usually are willing to call them scummy or just find someone scummier to lynch without really having to defend your buddy.austin, tell me, over all my scumgames, about me defending my scumbuddies, how often I do it, how I do it. kita: alright, will do. just popping in pre-exercise at the moment though. I do remember finding a quote from Prome's filter at some stage that made it seem quite unlikely to me that Prome was mafia with Holyflare(toad) though. I think you even commented on it. I'm not saying it's normal for you. And I won't fully play the "but marv knows he acts like this, so he'll act like that" game, but you know you're plenty capable of having the thought "I usually don't defend scumbuddies, people know that, therefore, I'll defend a scumbuddy." And even if how you normally interact with scumbuddies should be pushing me away from scummarv, your general play this game doesn't, that question doesn't, and prome's filter (discounting yours) doesn't really push me away from you. He seems to take stances on you at times, but not real ones. You're scummy when he's got way scummier people to be pushing, and he's not interested in talking about why you might be scum, despite being scummy on you. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
My current thought is prome + marv > Wos > kita > toad. I wish toad had been around more and talked more about why he wants to lynch foolish if he believes foolish/marv/prome = 2 mafia, because I don't think that makes sense. Otherwise, really just like him for town. For anyone that isn't convinced on prome, please read his thoughts on why mafia NKs gonzaw/hapa. Doesn't make sense. Actually read Foolishness's case on prome, look at prome's votes/reads. D1 reads, the way yesterday, when others were coming down to 2-3 scum suspects AT MOST, prome is apparently scummy on foolishness, scummy on marv, kinda scummy on toad, seems to be scummy on me at times, etc. Prome's got more than half the game still scum, and doesn't appear to be really trying to ... whittle that down. He's just happy that everyone is maybe scum, but we should lynch Foolishness. Again, I won't be dead. I like a prome lynch, but not autolynching marv afterwards. There's a chance someone's being a sneaky snake apart from marv. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote: Sugar and spleen and everything green?kita, I been dozing on and off this evening, fraid that shit gonna have to wait. Sadly there's 0 chance I get shot now, so I'll play hard next cycle. My one phobia is snakes. Ew. We need to really properly talk at some point tomorrow austin (on the not particularly dangerous assumption we'll still both be here :p), I need to see what your thoughts on me are really made of. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 07:56 marvellosity wrote: I thought you liked Foolishness's arguments on Prome, just not the conclusion. Your liking the analysis was not "I like the comparisons you're making" but "I like the...effort"?that's because you are odd and strange kita. And yeah, I never came back with a firm read on you. Mainly because I'd start looking at you and not really find what I was looking for (whatever that was) I'm not really sure what you're suggesting my angle is here... keeping my options open or something? when most people see you as much townier than I was seeing you? That doesn't really work. Fool's towncase really finally firmed up my read on you. Did a really cursory check of what he suggested and he made strong points. At the time I thought he included the towncase on you to look legit while he pushed other bad arguments on Prome and Toad. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I guess I should vocalize that, though. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote: How do you feel about Foolishness's anti-case on Toad? Like...really read and explain and whatnot plox?Welp seems like this game is going to be up to me now. Austin town, Prome scum, that's easy enough. It's the final day that's going to prove difficult. Marv or Toad? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 09:55 WaveofShadow wrote: I love me some trundle right now, except that you pillar CD so long that you can't actually stick on 85% of people.There is much to do. All in good time, sweet austin. I should totes lynch you for picking Trundle though. And yet, I've been losing games like crazy unless I ADC. But that is for another day. I'm interested in marv's kita response and your thoughts on Foolishness's Toad bit. I assume I know your thoughts on my thoughts on Toad. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 30 2014 10:33 Toadesstern wrote: ...........................................Also seems like mafia is trying to get WoS into lylo as the weekest link, was to be expected. Foolishness had him on 3rd most likely mafia, Austin as well and so do I. At the same time WoS had mighty paranoia about me and apparently austin as well. Seems like mafia wants some kind of WoS + either me or Austin lylo + whatever is left after prome, right?' Hoping that one of us gives in and votes ends up voting WoS over Marv? Pretty much confirms that there's mafia in Marv/Prome/Austin at this point and austin is town, so really keep on lynching There are 5 people alive There are 2 mafia alive One of the people alive is you If you are not mafia (Then of course there is mafia in marv/prome/austin) (It's 100% confirmed because of math) (Toad?) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 00:20 marvellosity wrote: What part of attacking prome and wanting a prome lynch are you referring to here as pretty weird? I think there are a variety of things you find odd, just want to see which.His, imo, unreasonably strong townread on Toad/Holy based on almost nothing. His attack on Prome for a really weird reason that still no-one has agreed with, and yet for some reason he's particularly suspicious of me for not agreeing with it. The fact he's always come in super-late to push any lynch, on every single day so far. His 100% absurd attack on me for when I said "vote your strongest read" when in context it was fucking obvious I was talking about day 3. I clarified and he continued the attack on the same basis. It's totally absurd that he's really trying to catch me out for being "hypocritical" for day 1 reads and voting compared to day 3 actions. (Also, there's a shimmering, translucent, kita-shaped specter behind you. It says oooooOOOOoooo OOOO and On January 30 2014 03:05 kitaman27 wrote: )marv, do you think Prom + austin makes sense? Or is toad still the other? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:09 marvellosity wrote: Why do WoS and Toad find prome scummy? Do you agree with them/either of them?kita can shimmer all he likes, i'll look at things in the order I think matters. In fairly obvious fashion, digging around at people will make kita's question easier to answer The reasons for Prome's Wave townread is the thing I'm talking about. That can go on the list, please. If you're not mafia, one of them is, and maybe this is a spot where one of them looks funky. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:13 marvellosity wrote: I don't know if you read thug life or not. I dunno how closely you read LXIII while hosting.You've done well at listening at the funky things Toad has done this game up to this point haven't you dear. But I have had very good luck recently calling people town, often for strange reasons, and being correct. In most of those cases, it's not about the sum total of what happens, it's about a specific thing or couple things someone did, how they posted. I'm going to trust I'm right for now on this one. You don't have to. But at the very least, this is something that has proven to work out, on the whole, well for me, so I'll stick with it until it doesn't. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Foolishness has posted on prome. VE posted on prome. There are a variety of D1/N1 things on prome. If prome is mafia (fo sho), then toad and I can't BOTH be scum. So either I'm TOWN, and maybe wrong on toad, but legitimately think I'm right, or I'm MAFIA, and toad is town, and so I'm right even if it's for stupid reasons, and it should just make me look scummy. But we're not both scum. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:25 marvellosity wrote: reek reek, it rhymes with prome is mafiaIf we end up lynching Prome and he's mafia + you're town, we're gonna be in trouble at LYLO if you won't consider that your funky shit can't be wrong sometimes. The ironic thing being if you're mafia it makes Toad more likely to be town. And yes, I know you do this kinda funky stuff as town. For 95%+ of players a defence of someone like you've been doing reeks of "I know his alignment", but with you, not so much. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Given that I don't particularly trust you right now, and that prome is getting lynched today it seems (regardless of where your vote falls) and given that i don't THINK the other living players in this game trust you particularly much, I would prefer to see you answer kita's question, even if you think it's just combinatrics, rather than you figure out how you feel about prome. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:40 marvellosity wrote: It's more like today's lynch appears to be 3-1 with you undecided.Yes, the kita question is absolutely valid. But I want to be sure I'm sure on today's lynch before I go about doing that. And whether other people trust me or not is literally 100% irrelevant. Think about it from my perspective. Some dude is telling me not to worry so much about who I want to lynch today because some dudes think I'm dodgy. No no no. UNLESS you plan on being unsure AND being able to change wos or toad's minds (and if you think prome is town, you think one or BOTH of them is mafia), then no matter how you FEEL about the lynch or how sure you are on it, prome gon' hang. Whether people trust you or not IS entirely irrelevant to that, my bad. The relevance of trust was more...if you're ACTUALLY town and are trying to find scum, then right now I'd rather see a kita answer from you, see your work, read your thoughts, than look at you talk about prome or something else, because I will discount whatever you say about other stuff. That doesn't FULLY make sense, cuz I should be discounting your kita answer as well. But I think the question is sexy and maybe leads somewhere, and I care more about that than anything else. I know you don't, but...ta da! we're in disagreement. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 01:51 marvellosity wrote: If you end up deciding prome is town 100%, prome will be lynched.I have unwavering faith that if I end up deciding something 100%, I can get others to agree with me. Naturally, you are the stiffest test of this, whichever alignment. I think you were sent to TL Mafia to test me. Because I am town, and there are two mafia, and I will not believe you think prome is town 100% | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 03:52 WaveofShadow wrote: I find odd defenses of townies to be scummy sometimes, despite being a big creator of them. But on occasion when someone has a funky reason for a townread, they know the guy is townie and can't quite explain why.Oh, so you mean like my townread on VE you found scummy? Yours is less scummy than others that I've seen, because normally it's a weird but simple/understandable one. Yours was not one that I followed fully, so either it's a bunch of garbled justifications for why VE is townie should he eventually flip, or you just had a peculiar-to-non-WoS's way of reading him this game. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 04:11 WaveofShadow wrote: There are 4 non-me's left. 2 of those are scum. 2 are town.Yeah but considering you still have me somewhere up on your scumlist because of it, it gives me the jibblies. You're third on my scumlist right now. That ... puts you on my townlist? Except you're also third most likely to be scum imo. Not a lot of options. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Also, do you fully agree with the bullet points Foolishness wrote on marv? You think 100% foolishness knows marv's innermost scum thoughts and has accurately put them in the thread? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 05:29 Toadesstern wrote: I REALLY HOPE I'M NOT WRONG ABOUT YOU BECAUSE THIS POST ALSO READS SUPER SUPER TOWNIE.well throwing shit at me without actually trying to get me lynched is what I'd call mafia agenda. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 10:31 marvellosity wrote: Yup. You appear, so it's time for your hourly reminderSo I post and magically 3 people appeared. How lovely kita dun axed you a question | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 10:33 marvellosity wrote: It makes a difference to Kita's memory. 9/Kita, NEVER FORGET.Reminding me makes no difference to anything, because i won't forget it, and you prodding me about it won't make me go look at it any faster | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The sooner you take stances, even if you're just gonna go back on em or whatever, about who pairs well and who doesn't, blah blah, the better imo. That's one reason I'm particularly interested. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The remaining mafia also wants to wait as long as possible to take stances, so as to see where everyone else's heads are at (assuming us townies haven't been lying about our reads and ordering, mwahahahaha). So it ain't just about speed or responding or anything, it's about making up your mind, or posting some thoughts at least, before you can read everyone ELSE'S minds. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(He also didn't drop that point. Marv's statement was that you vote the scummiest candidate, PERIOD. Not that you do so on D3, not that you do so sometimes, but that you do this, PERIOD. I think the D3 vs D1 stuff is as nonsensical as he thinks I'm being. If you believe you always vote the scummiest candidate, the day doesn't matter. If the day matters, then you don't actually believe you always vote the scummiest candidate) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I don't think it's a scum-marv comment. He's not scum because he said that. He's scum for general feel, for the brainz question, for his willingness to sit in the backseat this game EVEN AS THE GAME GOES TO ENDGAME (look at foolishness's posts on kita/toad/prome, kita's post on Sandroba's willingness to bus, and compare that to anything that marv has put forth). That comment just made me go look harder at his D1 voting, and also just...fight with him about it but it's not a town/scum battleground. He just got really bristly and I don't like the bristliness, or the fact that there's no ground given by either of us over whether the comment allows for a D3/D1 difference. It's a long time back, but in Movie Mini marv gets to mid/middish game and goes nuts trying to hunt a scum roleblocker because that's the only way for town to POSSIBLY win. In champions he has a burst of activity in late midgame, trying to get things on the right track for town. Even when marv isn't LEADING, marv wants to SOLVE the game. We're one day from endgame and marv still wasn't even convinced on prome, for the longest time today, and he's still not voting and doesn't appear to be fully convinced. Foolishness and Kita put in legwork, I ... opened LX in another tab and have not looked at it much, and marv is just content to fret over who might or might not be scum. Except not really, because he's not taking any stances, he's not burst of activity-ing. He's just sort of here to say that maybe some folks are mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Is there anything else? Do you think the final scumteam is austin and prome? Is Toad involved? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:01 WaveofShadow wrote: ?Notably absent in recent times, I believe. Austin, the man makes a point. Care to elaborate? As far as what I think about the toad slot? NUMBER ONE THOUGHT - HE'S TOWN SO I DON'T CARE NUMBER TWO THOUGHT - His response to me asking what he found scummy about marv is VERY townie to me. Why? The final scum NEEDS a mislynch. He NKs someone, he needs a mislynch between the remaining two. The final scum needs to be painting people as scummy, and CONVINCINGLY so. All he has to do is convince Guy A that Guy B is scum, at least more than Guy B can convince Guy A that final scum is scum. Toad, when asked what mafia agenda (i hated using agendas and I'm using agenda as plural here) marv has pushed, doesn't make anything up. He doesn't go FIND places where marv has encouraged votes on townies, taken mafia stances, whatever whatever. He doesn't make any attempt to bolster a case against marv. He just says marv has been pushing him and THAT is a scummy agenda. I find toad town. If he's mafia, he just has to keep me convinced you or marv is mafia. And he put ZERO effort into painting marv as mafia. That is, to me, the opposite of what mafia would have responded to that question with. If he were mafia, he had a chance to make his endgame SLIGHTLY easier, and he utterly failed to take it in a dismissive way. NUMBER THREE THOUGHT - HOLY CRAP HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LEFT IN THE GAME WE ARE 1 DAY FROM ENDGAME AND HE'S JUST...BARELY FOLLOWING ALONG? HOW CAN THIS BE? NUMBER FOUR THOUGHT - As mentioned before, the times I've seen scum toad, he's gotten himself caught EARLY, because he does silly things or he's too outspoken. The scumToad that I know LOVES to cause chaos, be very visible, essentially sac himself to fuck with the thread. In Chrono Trigger he was very visible early. In Pokemon PTP he was apparently visible early, I replaced into the game after he'd already died, but he was a D1 or D2 death iirc. Toad here is NOT causing chaos. He's doing...very little. And he's not the last guy left. Up until recently, toad was more suspicious than prome. If THEY are a mafia team together, I would except mafia Toad to be unable to resist the desire to just fuck with the thread, cause chaos, and try to set prome up. It's not like everyone isn't slightly suspicious of everyone in this game, it would have taken very little work to just push everyone and everything. But instead, he's just passive and often a non-factor. That's not the scumtoad I know. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:06 WaveofShadow wrote: I push it because we seem to fight a bunch and we both always want to be right.....then why continue to push it? >.< As for the rest, yup, I get it and have gotten it all game. It's not a really far cry from marv's towngame though but maybe this is what was enough to set off my radar earlier in the game? I also have to go look at a couple of specific points during the game where I said 'This is town-marv,' and re-evaluate to see if the reason for those was good enough. In this case, I think the statement On January 29 2014 06:25 marvellosity wrote: no austin, you should be lynching the absolute strongest read, period. is a blanket statement. Not a D3 vs D1 thing, no room for error, "Are you lynching? If yes, lynch strongest read." He is saying this applies on D3 but not D1. ALL I REALLY WANT IS FOR HIM TO SAY "YUP, MY COMMENT SHOULD BE AMENDED TO SAY THAT THIS APPLIES FROM D2/D3 ONWARDS It's not even about votes or anything. It's just an absolutely stupid fight over whether marv believes in the statement as written, or in that statement as amended. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Hokay. There are two parts to this.Oh god the brainz question again? Can you remind me where that ridiculousness stems from? (1) Why I think the brainz thing is important. In Holy's filter, one of the MAIN things he did was have this long back and forth with Gonzaw. G wants to lynch Foolishness for doing nothing. HF wants to know why Foolishness and not Sandroba, since Sandroba has done nothing. Gonzaw says Sandro always AFK early, Foolishness not normally AFK, just scum Foolishness. HF continues to push Gonzaw, although in a silly way, that caught 1 why not find more bit. Says Gonzaw is "copping out" from the rest of the game for just finding Foolishness. They CONTINUE this discussion. Gonzaw wants HF to calm down. HF responds sorry, thinks it's odd, will step back. Asks kitaman ABOUT gonzaw, is this normal Gonzaw play? To just spend time on Foolishness (remember, Gonzaw posted a bunch of meta stuff on Foolishness when Foolishness had like 3-4 posts) At this point, hapa gets involved and starts asking why HF is so concerned with Foolishness/gonzaw business HF reply - + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 06:13 Holyflare wrote: I do not want to participate in a discussion based on a person with 4 posts, it is futile. Foolishness has posted nothing and gonzaw is spending his entire time focusing on that person. I want to know what Gonzaw is like in other games, does he tunnel like that, does he declare he is not reading the thread till he gets home only to still spend his time on futile research? These are all questions I would like to know the answers to based on people's previous games with him. Just because he has put effort in and has posted does not make him towny. I asked that question specifically to kita because I think me and him are on the same wavelength (he asked gonzaw how long it took him to do the foolishness meta post - what I assumed to be seeing how he was allocating time) and I would like him to elaborate on his thoughts. I have no attitude towards foolishness other than my dislike for his unexplained reads. It's not scummy, it's not towny, I want to know his reasonings before I take my read further. Could he be scum? Yes. Could he be town? Yes. I do not know and cannot know until he posts, so of course my attitude to him would be a net null read. (1a) LOOK AT HOW TOWNIE THE ABOVE THINGS SEEM (1b) Gonzaw responds to hapa that HF's conduct isn't strange if he's scum. (1c) HF GOES AGGRO ON GONZAW, asking him to answer the questions about Foolishness, meta, whatnot, instead of joking with hapa. And while going aggro on Gonzaw, he writes "brainz". You think this is dumb, other people think this is dumb, but if he's scum and worried that Gonzaw thinks he's scum, I don't think he half-jokingly writes brainz. Instead, he just slinks away or goes aggro but not aggro with a z. Instead, he DEMANDS answers from Gonzaw but also uses a z. FOR ME THIS IS SIGNIFICANT I KID YOU NOT. Read HF/Gonzaw exchange. As they have that exchange, HF is asking kita, asking other players, trying to read Gonzaw. It reads like legit townie trying to figure someone out. It ends in a manner I find townie, with HF going aggro on Gonzaw and trying to get answers. (2) HERE'S WHY IT TIES INTO MARV, AND THIS IS WEAKER FOR ANYONE WHO ISN'T ME Blah blah we played a game, he was scum, I was town. At one point in the game, I got this weird feeling about marv based on the questions he was asking. Didn't think they were townie questions. That read passed, I became townie on marv, and then MARV WON AS THE LAST REMAINING SCUM BECAUSE I LYNCHED NOT-MARV. In this game, I said toad was town for the brainz thing. Marv responded about that, he read the comment, processed it, blah blah. + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2014 21:49 marvellosity wrote: The only thing I find weird from Wave today. Weird way of kinda admitting that his reasons for finding VE town are wonky? Meh. Agree with gonzaw though, his filter is remarkable today, can not lynch Worryingly the two other posts I noted down because I agreed with them were from austin This isn't to dig at Wave, this is more to comment on VE. More in a sec austin much better when not wifflewaffling about stupid stuff and actually talking about stuff to do with alignments. Really at the moment it's something like: gonzaw/marv/austin/prome - very sexually attractive wave - becoming increasingly sexually attractive by sheer dint of effort and activity apart from anything else, cba to talk at length because no reason kita - also becoming increasingly attractive, to a lesser extent. I went back to read his large vote analysis post because at the time I wasn't convinced why for whatever reason. It looks better the 2nd time round. People have kinda taken the piss out of his combinatrics, but he seems to be trying to eliminate unlikely teams within that post, which in turn eliminates possible mislynches if he's mafia. I would like you to answer kita (because it wasn't abundantly clear to me) how you've arrived at Prome as "town". In your analyis post it seemed like you were basically coming around to the idea that Prome wasn't mafia anymore, but without being particularly firm about it as far as I could tell. Did your vote analysis + other people's comments firm up your town read on Prome? Or what? Foolishness case also quite compelling, didn't read too forced, made some sense, so... foolish - was kinda sexually attractive, now in fear of beer goggles. I keep reading his filter because people keep talking about him, and I keep understanding what people are saying, but all his posts now read so natural and not-bad to me :/ I'm shit-scared that i'm wrong but meeeeeh. i'm good enough and, frankly, i have the most recent game experience (last year or two) with foolish out of anyone here. for whatever reason gonzaw is the person i'm most likely to listen to on gonzaw because he seems to approach his alignment in a similar way to me. and gonzaw is starting to think he's scummy... bleh toad - quite ugly. Honestly I'm not understanding any of the rationale put forth by austin on why the slot is particularly townie. Don't get the Holyflare "brainz" thing. I understand to a more limited extent Prome's point on D1 that Holy couldn't be "that terrible" with something he posted if he were scummy, but still meh. I also cannot get over the idea of someone reading through a thread and missing out someone's posts, even as an aid to "save time" because ultimately it doesn't save much time at the time, it doesn't save time in the long run, and it makes other people's posts harder to understand. I can't imagine doing it myself. The case on Wave is weak and again I do not understand austin's rationale of "it's weak in a townie way". No, it's just weak. He's one of my two mafia currently. would kill VE - also quite ugly. I'm so over the woe is me routine. He came back to the thread posting yesterday and I was all like "yay, maybe he's town!" but then he kinda just wandered around listlessly and bitched at stuff. This feels like one of those times someone is being allowed to slip under the radar while people distract themselves with more shiny things. Remember how suspicious people were of VE right post-flip? And yet somehow now, there's nothing... what's warranted this, actually? Nothing... The one thing I'm basically worried is happening with the way things have been going is that Foolish = town, and he's right that lynching into that list would actually win the game for town. So... there has to be a push by mafia (if that would win the game) to lynch outside of that list, and Foolish is the target. In particular this makes me quite paranoid of kita. Nonetheless I think we should go for the best of both worlds and find the MOST suspicious people from Fool's list and lynch them and worry about things if we haven't won by then. In other words, VE/Toad mafia, let's kill them. oh PS, there's also a non-zero chance I won't be around for deadline today, social thingies. Fair warning too , bloop - On January 27 2014 08:02 marvellosity wrote: austin, you know that brainz thing is a big load of bullshit, right? Here is why MARV IS MAFIA. This question goes NOWHERE. He knows, you know, anyone who has read recent games of mine KNOWS that I don't think my read on toad is a load of bullshit. Not only have I made reads like this multiple times, I defend them every time, and also THEY SEEM TO BE RIGHT MOST/ALL OF THE DANG TIME (exception is Aperture 2 the small version where I was mafia). So he KNOWS the answer to this question is "I don't think it's a load of bullshit." Marv is, for no reason, asking me a question that he knows the answer to. He's not really interested in my read on toad, he just wants to poop on it from space. My answer doesn't matter. My answer to this question doesn't make me townie, scummy, anything. Whether I believe in my read has nothing to do with my alignment. This is just a throwaway question that means NOTHING. It goes nowhere, he knows the answer, and the only purpose it can serve is just to slightly discredit me, remind the thread that I have an odd read. That post, that question, hit me in the same way as his questions in our earlier game did. I've been mildly suspicious of him for most of this game, but the moment he asked that question my read flipped. He got much more likelier scum TO ME, because there's no reason for him to write that question except to slightly discredit me. And he doesn't even focus on doing that, painting me as scummy, blah blah. Just this little side comment. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote: It tied in with something else about marv's alignment, and that was a general question mark over his D1 scumreads/voting, and why he swapped to Sandroba right at the end.So this has nothing to do with marv's alignment then? Did it have something to do with his alignment at some point? Marv sure seems to think the argument has a thread-relevant point beyond being a stupid fight. I don't think marv is 100% mafia because he voted to "test Foolishness" and then says you should always vote your strongest scumread. I think it's a very very very minor point, and it's connected to marv's general end of D1. It more reminded me of that, I used the term "set me off," because I had issues with Marv's voting/reads towards the end of D1, and now he's saying always strongest scumread. It was a bridge to the point. So for the MOST part, nope, it's not an alignment thing. It was tangential to one. It's about me being pedantic. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I can look back over Toad's games, but based on his play THIS GAME, I think HF was town. I'm fine with Toad's play this game. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But....since some of the early comments on Prome seem to have gotten lost in the aether, Foolishness has a whole bit on why HE thinks toad is town, and also Foolishness didn't flip mafia. Maybe it does something for people, maybe it doesn't, but you can trust that post more now than you could when you thought Foolishness was mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I know me going "it reminded me of this other feeling i had this one time" is not a good basis to convince anyone of marv. But I don't think my thoughts on Toad are ridiculous, except maybe the final bit on brainz, but I find that shorthand to refer to the whole thing. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
miaow | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I think you'd have more luck trying to convince people though without point 3 - Foolishness and VE weren't playing well, otherwise we wouldn't have lynched them. So trusting thier reads on me is silly to the point of scummy. You say they weren't playing well, but VE got a lot of crap for calling you mafia, and for suggesting a prome/sandroba/foolishness scumteam. Looks like he was right on you, and apparently the whole game thought foolishness was scummy enough to lynch the very next day.Tbh, it looks like they were right, and the rest of us played a little poorly. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Am I just that cray? And if you think the scumteam is marv/austin, and toad has already been saying that he thought there were two mafia in marv/prome/foolishness, why aren't you trying to lynch marv? If you really want to convince toad, why not go after the guy that you BOTH think is mafia? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 02:31 marvellosity wrote: *cough*Gonna try answer me / the rest of austin's questions, twinkletoes? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For the non-me lazy, On November 02 2012 17:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Promethelax is replacing prplhz. Apologies for any inconveniences this might cause. On November 02 2012 19:33 risk.nuke wrote: We're still killing Muso for not having a partner. While prplhz/Promethelax was suspicious Muso is basically busted scum. On November 02 2012 20:55 Acrofales wrote: I suggest to just read the thread and do some traditional behavioural analysis. I like my vote on prplhz (sorry Promethelax, your predecssor said some stuff that I cannot jibe with town). @Kushm4sta: you're not thinking straight. Also, blame Bugs for my rolename. On November 02 2012 21:48 Acrofales wrote: Prplhz What initially made my scumdar ping was this passage: He pre-excuses his lack of activity (although now that he was replaced we can safely assume this was not a ploy, but a simple headsup: it still got my attention at the time, though) and chums up to quite a number of players for no good reason: he indicates that thrown2112, kushm4sta and Hopeless1der should see him as town. He further chums up with Mattchew, Muso and Release by calling them town, when the game is about 12 hours old. I personally didn't have a town read yet on anybody and found this passage decidedly strange. However, prplhz slipped badly in the claiming ordeal, which I explained earlier and Muso fleshed out in sufficient detail. Note that this case ONLY works if Muso is in fact town. If Muso is scum, then prplhz has no reason to be so surprised. So the question is what case you think is better on its own. A compounding problem is that prplhz will not be around to explain himself and Promethelax cannot explain it, obviously. Also, gonna bring in the meta-lynch-all-replacements rule: it is more likely to replace scum in this manner than to replace town. I don't like using moderator actions to hunt scum, but it is something that is a simple truth. Losing a townie to inactivity is not the end of the world. Losing scum in a similar manner is extremely bad for the game. On November 02 2012 23:13 Acrofales wrote: About 8 hours left. It seems time to consolidate. Out of Kush and prplhz, against who the main body of the case is similar, I feel prplhz has shown more dodgy behaviour. At least kush's switch came after the majority of the thread had weighed in and said they weren't Muso's mason partner: prplhz did his 180 (thanks for that reminder in your filter, risk) with only my statistics to persuade him in the meantime. I don't feel particularly happy pushing for a lynch on someone who has just subbed in, but the worst thing possible is a no-lynch today: we need that flip information. PS: if the aim is to get information from a lynch, Muso will give info if he flips town (namely, a stronger case against prplhz and kush), whereas prplhz and kush are dudds if they flip town, so that is a point in favour of killing Muso. However, I feel prplhz is FAR more likely to flip scum at this point and killing scum is my goal. Re-voting for emphasis: ##vote Promethelax prome's got people suspicious of him AND votes on him before he even posts. Yes, he replaces in early, but apparently there was plenty of time for prplhz to do prplhz stuff. All of the above quotes are before prome ever posts. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Prome, any recent towngames that you didn't replace into? Cuz British is a year old, and I'm not seeing thread find him super scummy (at least enough to vote him) in recent games. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
*cough* | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 03:31 marvellosity wrote: A girl can dream.You should know very well I'd never lie about that sort of thing as either alignment. Silly silly. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 03:35 marvellosity wrote: Not incompetence, just easier-to-catch scumplay.Why would you ever wish incompetence upon me? That hurts. There have to be SOME points where lying is better than truth for scum. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote: If that's a "let's work together about something" comment, then yes. If that's saying you're town and want to live through the night, I can't help you there.Happy pre-birthday Austin! Can your present be to win this game with me rather than on your own? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I think my reads are in thread, I think we have a good lynch, I think part of D5 will depend on the NK, and I have lots of super secret plans that I can't let scum know about. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
x > y > z ? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Marv - + Show Spoiler + On January 25 2014 02:09 marvellosity wrote: At this stage though, WoS is at least trying and VE is not. Not entertaining wifomy shit about that either. On January 25 2014 21:49 marvellosity wrote: The only thing I find weird from Wave today. Weird way of kinda admitting that his reasons for finding VE town are wonky? Meh. Agree with gonzaw though, his filter is remarkable today, can not lynch Worryingly the two other posts I noted down because I agreed with them were from austin This isn't to dig at Wave, this is more to comment on VE. More in a sec austin much better when not wifflewaffling about stupid stuff and actually talking about stuff to do with alignments. Really at the moment it's something like: gonzaw/marv/austin/prome - very sexually attractive wave - becoming increasingly sexually attractive by sheer dint of effort and activity apart from anything else, cba to talk at length because no reason kita - also becoming increasingly attractive, to a lesser extent. I went back to read his large vote analysis post because at the time I wasn't convinced why for whatever reason. It looks better the 2nd time round. People have kinda taken the piss out of his combinatrics, but he seems to be trying to eliminate unlikely teams within that post, which in turn eliminates possible mislynches if he's mafia. I would like you to answer kita (because it wasn't abundantly clear to me) how you've arrived at Prome as "town". In your analyis post it seemed like you were basically coming around to the idea that Prome wasn't mafia anymore, but without being particularly firm about it as far as I could tell. Did your vote analysis + other people's comments firm up your town read on Prome? Or what? Foolishness case also quite compelling, didn't read too forced, made some sense, so... foolish - was kinda sexually attractive, now in fear of beer goggles. I keep reading his filter because people keep talking about him, and I keep understanding what people are saying, but all his posts now read so natural and not-bad to me :/ I'm shit-scared that i'm wrong but meeeeeh. i'm good enough and, frankly, i have the most recent game experience (last year or two) with foolish out of anyone here. for whatever reason gonzaw is the person i'm most likely to listen to on gonzaw because he seems to approach his alignment in a similar way to me. and gonzaw is starting to think he's scummy... bleh toad - quite ugly. Honestly I'm not understanding any of the rationale put forth by austin on why the slot is particularly townie. Don't get the Holyflare "brainz" thing. I understand to a more limited extent Prome's point on D1 that Holy couldn't be "that terrible" with something he posted if he were scummy, but still meh. I also cannot get over the idea of someone reading through a thread and missing out someone's posts, even as an aid to "save time" because ultimately it doesn't save much time at the time, it doesn't save time in the long run, and it makes other people's posts harder to understand. I can't imagine doing it myself. The case on Wave is weak and again I do not understand austin's rationale of "it's weak in a townie way". No, it's just weak. He's one of my two mafia currently. would kill VE - also quite ugly. I'm so over the woe is me routine. He came back to the thread posting yesterday and I was all like "yay, maybe he's town!" but then he kinda just wandered around listlessly and bitched at stuff. This feels like one of those times someone is being allowed to slip under the radar while people distract themselves with more shiny things. Remember how suspicious people were of VE right post-flip? And yet somehow now, there's nothing... what's warranted this, actually? Nothing... The one thing I'm basically worried is happening with the way things have been going is that Foolish = town, and he's right that lynching into that list would actually win the game for town. So... there has to be a push by mafia (if that would win the game) to lynch outside of that list, and Foolish is the target. In particular this makes me quite paranoid of kita. Nonetheless I think we should go for the best of both worlds and find the MOST suspicious people from Fool's list and lynch them and worry about things if we haven't won by then. In other words, VE/Toad mafia, let's kill them. oh PS, there's also a non-zero chance I won't be around for deadline today, social thingies. Fair warning too On January 26 2014 03:43 marvellosity wrote: And you think Wave is a good vote today after he's been the most active this cycle? On January 26 2014 22:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Which I have noticed, specifically called him on and tried to see if we could do something about. As for filter length, as people have said quantity != quality but I'd like to think there's at least a little bit in there. It pisses me off that anyone can say I'm not trying. As either alignment. This post is WoS's, but leads to the next two On January 26 2014 22:49 marvellosity wrote: Yeah, I'll give you "a little bit" of content buddy. That's as far as I'll stretch On January 26 2014 22:52 marvellosity wrote: Put it this way: if you're mafia, I'm extremely impressed with your effort and commitment this cycle. Big focus on EFFORT, ACTIVITY, very little focus on actual posts. There's not a whole lot else that I'm finding super mega interesting, except for marv's scumread on Foolishness into his vote. Here is why: (1) Marv, on D2 and N2, appears to mainly be worried about Foolishness BECAUSE of Foolishness's scumread on WoS and his unwillingness to relent from that read (remember, this is after WoS posts a bunch, and most of thread goes from scummy to townie on WoS) Marv being critical of Foolishness's scum read on WoS - + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2014 23:52 marvellosity wrote: Fool, what's the point in Wave doing this as mafia when literally noone agreed with him and it just made him stick out from the crowd? On January 28 2014 00:01 marvellosity wrote: This is so so wonky On January 28 2014 00:06 marvellosity wrote: This is even wonkier though, seems like Fool is threatening gonzaw, or gonzaw is suspicious, or something? But then immediately following these posts Fool is treating gonzaw as town again. What do you make of this Wave? (or anyone about who cares to read) None of Fool's recent posting reads like it comes from a townie, from his intransigence on the Wave read (along with the rationale), to the being ok but not ok but ok with the VE lynch, to being sure about Wave but saying he might be wrong, to the weird threats to gonzaw. I am frowning. Now, marv also grabs a kita quote about Foolishness's lack of concern for his town image this game, but it appears that a lot of the reason marv gravitates towards a scumFool read is his WoS read, sureness of that read, and him not wanting to back off it. In terms of REASONS that marv has been scummy on Foolishness through D2/N2/start of D3, the MAIN thing that I see in marv's filter is Foolishness's WoS read is wrong, he's being too stubborn about it. I KNOW that I don't have 18 posts from marv saying this, but if you check marv's filter for talk about WoS and Foolishness on D2/N2, you see that WoS is townie now because of activity, and Foolishness is mafia mainly because of his refusal to be townie on WoS after WoS's, N2/D2. (2) marv drops his foolishness vote early D3 (we're 2 hours into D3 here) - On January 28 2014 10:11 marvellosity wrote: kita, the problem is that it's almost impossible to tell (especially with toad) from that whether he's a townie with a natural evolution (i agree, it feels that way) or if mafia decided they need to bus Fool at some point in the past and he's been carefully working his way up to it ever since. Second scenario requires one more assumption than the first. But in the larger picture it means a larger assumption that, like you say, something has gone horribly wrong. I think the sum of it is, we need to kill Fool today, so let's do it. He's easily the most suspicious. ##Vote: Foolishness (3) Within a couple minutes, Foolishness drops his big posts. In his Q and A, you see explanations for why he didn't write a big post on wave, When I saw your name appear in the thread, I was expecting a Nobel-Prize winning essay on why WaveOfShadow is mafia...but I don't see his name, what gives? Put simply, I don't think he's mafia and I don't want to lynch him. If I'm going to be brutally honest, I still have this nagging doubt in my mind that he's mafia but the evidence shows that that's not who the town should be lynching. He doesn't fit the bill. What do you have to say about *insert player here*'s reads this game (either on you or *insert player here*)? I think the evidence I've brought forth should explain a lot about who is reading who this game and why. I've been called out for giving shitty reasons on why Kita and/or Toad is mafia (with WoS thrown in there as well) rightfully so. You've completely done a 180 on us and changed up everything you've been thinking this game! I think you look like a desperate mafia pulling a last ditch attempt to survive a lynch! Now, he has posts later in D3 about why WoS is town, but for now, all we see is that he WAS very sure of scumWoS on D2, then changed his mind, presents WoS as town, has different suspects.Yes, this is a reasonable concern (though in my opinion I could just convince you all to lynch WoS if that was the case, but that's a meaningless argument). This is why I urge you all to check out my analysis above on the three players and clearing your mind when trying to figure out this game. I was definitely looking in all the wrong places the past two days and the pieces weren't fitting together. I think that if you look at what I've given you above and how I was able to deduce these things everything should start clicking. WHY ARE THESE THREE THINGS IMPORTANT? Because marv has a scumread on Foolishness. One of marv's major issue, if not THE major issue (the only one he talks about during D2/N2 basically), is Foolishness's read on WoS. Foolishness, at the start of D3, entirely swaps his read on WoS. He gives some reasoning for it, says he was wrong, drops WoS as a top scum suspect. Says it's prome + mystery 2nd scum. But marv, throughout D3, does not even reference this change in Foolishness's WoS read once. He doesn't note that Foolishness has changed his read and is now slightly townier. He doesn't say Foolishness is scummier for getting called out on his WoS read, getting caught, and then trying to change his mind. Marv entirely ignores that his biggest scumread and the guy he was voting just potentially undermined a big reason why marv was scummy on him, and really the only recent reason marv has given. I think this further shows why marv is mafia. If he is town, he has a LEGITIMATE scumread on Foolishness for doing stuff. Foolishness just did something that is SUPER relevant to that read. A townmarv incorporates that into his read, does SOMETHING with it, whether it makes Foolishness more townie or more scummy, it MATTERS. The fact that marv does not reference Foolishness's change in his WoS read AT ALL indicates that marv's read on Foolishness isn't real. He's got a reason for Foolishness to be scum, he's got a vote, he wants to mislynch Foolishness and it looks like it's going to happen, nothing more needed. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 04:54 WaveofShadow wrote: I want to be super sure, and also I dunno how much time I've got during night phase.Jesus Austin. You're the one putting so much effort in now and I'm sooo laaazzzyyy Can I call you town based on effort? + Show Spoiler + I know I actually can't 'cause it's you, Mr. PTP: Dr Who You can call me town based on effort, but you can't actually believe it. Except that you can, because if I put in a bunch of effort AND don't say that I'm mafia, then I'm town. Apart from trying to figure out how to beat Crossfire's super-mega-voltron role, I didn't put in tons of work into AFTER I'd friggin' claimed in that game. I had to work hard to convince gonzaw and Crossfire. PLUS I WAS TOTALLY RIGHT AND IF THEY'D LYNCHED ME THEY WOULD HAVE LOST AND HAD NO CHANCE OF WINNING SO IT WAS BETTER FOR THEM TO LYNCH ME. Even when I'm mafia, my effort is TO HELP TOWN. Also I'm not mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Did YOUR opinion of Foolishness change when he swapped his stance on you? Either good or bad, did you adjust your read? Did it gives you pause about his scumminess? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Do you see what I'm getting at though? I can't really find anything in marv's filter during D2/N2 about why Foolishness is scum, except that he's really picking up on Foolishness's read on you. In fact, marv has a comment wondering why everyone is suddenly suspicious of Foolishness (after I keep bugging people not to call him 100% town), right as he's gotten OFF of foolishness and is now townier onto him (due to Foolishness posting about the votes and why Prome, who was scummy, now probably isn't) (**SIDE NOTE** Marv is scummy on Foolishness and only comes around after Foolishness posts his vote analysis on why prome is town. After that, Marv suddenly likes him again) But he does NOTHING on D3 with Foolishness's change in read. Something super relevant to his scumread on Foolishness happened, and he just doesn't seem to care. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:42 WaveofShadow wrote: I wrote stuff, you just didn't like that I should have found it earlier or been more convinced by it earlier, and you don't like that I responded hypothetically to gonzaw.You're absolutely certain that it's me and Toad who are town? I still haven't heard much on myself from like...anyone as to why I'm town. Maybe Foolishness. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:44 Promethelax wrote: Do you want to vote marv today?Certain enough. You could be scum with marv but you have played a good game and my gut has you as town for some things I can't quite put into words. In terms of things that I can pin point the way you talked about VE looks really genuine and damn silly from a scum perspective. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:53 marvellosity wrote: You have D1 anti-foolishness posts due to sandroba and generally feeling that Foolishness isn't active/townie/whatever.austin, you selectively forget half my posts. No bueno. But I promise you I had your filter open for a while this morning, and I'll bet if you start looking after Foolishness changes his mind on Promethelax, you're gonna find your suspicions on him are because of his WoS read. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 05:59 marvellosity wrote: I assume there was more to it. And yeah, other people thought he was scummy. But:There were plenty of other things that didn't mesh up. Such as Fool having the read on Wave, but conveniently disappearing from the thread right as Wave arrived posting walls. Obviously that was just Fool doing his thang, but in the context it looked horrendous. Wasn't only me that thought so either. Foolishness is doing A, and is mafia for that Foolishness stops doing A, starts doing -A Silence Is smellz. Whether you had other reasons or not. Whether you had other reasons you didn't put in thread or not. Whether other people found him scummy or not. You specifically pointed out a thing he was doing, he did the entire opposite of that thing, and you continued to vote him and call him scummy with absolutely no mention of him doing the opposite of a thing you'd called him out on. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
#barelyrelevantbutmani'mconvinced | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
#montpeliervermont | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 06:43 Promethelax wrote: qua?Are you doing enough research right now into my past to go to my house?! On February 01 2014 06:43 WaveofShadow wrote: I never said anywhere in there that 'because Prome and marv are talking it means one of them isn't scum.' I'm just saying trying to look at it from an unbiased POV is difficult given the game state and general opinion right now. Austin, can you actually go look at those pages for me and see if you can see anything that I don't? (I think it starts on 111 or so?) Toad you too. Marv, well, I wish I could ask you to do the same but I suppose it kind of defeats the purpose. Yeah | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If you want to push for mafia Toad, you've got prome kinda shading Toad as mafia with his four square question. There's a boatload of chatter between them over 3-4 pages. Foolishness, me. It's a LOT of back and forth if they're teammates. It's also right after Foolishness posts that Prome is mafia. Real talk possible. HOLY CRAP THE GAME IS RUINED NOW WE NEED BIG PLAYS is possible. It's a lot of interaction, which I see as a good thing. Will admit that. It doesn't have the same quality that I read into HF/gonzaw D1 interaction, where it looks like HF is really pushing Gonzaw, trying to figure out Gonzaw and trying to figure out Foolishness. Trying to see if all the chatter GOES anywhere. Playful bit on reading after getting home, oh i feel asleep, "does foolishness use meta?" lots of little questions that DON'T feel like they go anywhere. Who's the third scum? Are you concerned by austin? Would fool trust toad to be the LYLO guy? Did toad get left out of four square? It doesn't...neither is asking the other for anything very difficult, neither feels very worried about the other AT ALL. Entirely different from current thread, there are no shifty eyes betwixt them. Like, there's the playful bit with "oddly content", like 6-7 posts of that, into the #s. I dunno. Overall I think it points to NOT a marv/prome team? If it's orchestrated, it's done pretty well. If it were more hard hitting I'd be a lot more convinced, but so much is idle or just "hey, what do you think about spinach?" "i like spinach, what do you think about Jupiter?" Prome trying to get me to play conspiracy theory is also interesting if you want to push a prome/toad team. If fool and sandroba are scum together, who is the third. I refuse to answer toad, and i THINK he's pushing for me to say toad. If he's setting up "oh, foolishness is town so toad, the likeliest buddy of foolishness, looks better now" then...meh. He knows foolishness won't be town. And toad's alignment wouldn't be based on his interactions with foolishness alone. AND HE DOES NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT MY CONSPIRACY THEORY WHERE MARV IS THE SNEAKY SNAKE THIRD MAFIA. HE CALLS IT INTERESTING, ASKS WHY MARV PUSHES SANDROBA/FOOLISHNESS ASSUMING TOWN PROME, AND THEN DOES NOTHING MORE. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 06:46 Promethelax wrote: Nope. Just thought the word montpelier and I liked it with a hastag.Montpellier Vermont is about an hour from the house I was born in. "Hashtag Montpelier" just kind of rolls off the tongue in a neat way | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE DEADLINE༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
gg | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
That assumed, of course, prome mafia, which I had way way way way likelier than marv. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
thanks hosts. Ran smoothly and I know there's some extra work for running these two games. I do really like the idea | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 01 2014 09:06 gonzaw wrote: I think that you have a way of getting really excited and ... drowning someone/someones out. Well, I kind of feel bad for VE for giving up and all. Would have been fun to have VE and marv yell at each other from D3 onwards. I don't think you got particularly like...jerk aggressive, but (and I know I can and DO do this as well), you can dominate a thread when you think you're onto something/somethings, and you post a LOT about it, and in the case of VE it felt like you really came down on him for disagreeing. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/47a21bc4c384354d990444a98e2f5409/tumblr_mfchi7AZxi1r57f87o1_500.gif) | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 01:19 marvellosity wrote: One of the problems with lynching you this game is just that ... other candidates appear. Regardless of how scummy you look to a single person, a lot of times it's vague statements about why you're mafia/not playing like town. Basically this. Like I actually agree that I think in general I should be fairly easy to spot. Yet in game... things consistently turn out differently. edit: it's *always* the people *out* of game who think I'm fairly obvious scum. Which is fine. I probably am :D But somehow, almost never people in the game think that way. You have no idea. Artanis is being quite kind ^_^ Given that the specific actions you took are things like "voted scum D1," I found it tough to put together posts like "See how he calls Foolishness mafia for this, but then something happens that he should be considering if his read is legitimate, except he doesn't consider it, showing that he doesn't have a townie mindset and isn't building reads on people based on what they do in the thread." I especially can't convince anyone off of "he asked this question that made me feel he was scum." So as long as other people do...easier to point to things, it becomes much easier to push lynches on OTHER scummy players. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 06:28 Keirathi wrote: I just think it was off. If he wants to make fun of me for it, that's fine, and if he wants to ask what I'm talking about, or why I feel so strongly, or something like that, it's fine. But that question itself was something he knew the answer to, and the answer had nothing to do with anything. As either alignment I'd believe what I was typing, so it's not alignment-indicative of me, and it's not alignment-indicative to marv about Toad (whether he's town OR scum), so it meant nothing. But it wasn't a joke or mocking, it felt like he was legitimately asking this absolutely useless question.@austin: that question that you called marv scum for was probably the "towniest" thing he posted all game :o Edit: Which is weird in itself, of course. But it was probably the most forceful/aggressive post he made in the entire game, and his town game is consistently full of quips like that. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 11:00 gonzaw wrote: Oh, no. I take the non-sarcastic reading.Austin...read obs qt for my take on that "question" ...you won't like it most likely marv is more than happy to tell me i'm being an idiot, or that I'm entirely wrong on something. Usually he does that in a more colorful way (austin is my cat, austin has been put here to challenge me, etc. etc.) generally, when he's trying to mock me for being super right about everything, he does so in a more playful/colorful way, he enjoys the process. a dry question is not what i expect from mocking or sarcastic marv, at least not with any kind of colorful followup | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
THIS one's sarcastic, so we know the other really wasn't sarcasm, and ... he was caught. Certainly. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 12:49 gonzaw wrote: The only correct answer is that, based on the punctuation, that post only contains two sentences, the little bit more and then asking me to identify a future sentence as sarcasm.Okay austin, let's test you a little bit more. Tell me if the next sentence is sarcasm, or not: If you can't answer correctly, I'm afraid we'll have to send you to the Mafia Rehabilitation Center Psych Ward. So...I guess I just wait for "the next sentence"? I am fully aware that I'm unconvincing here, and I'm trollish in some responses, but serious that my marv read really changed based on that question, right or wrong. I promise not to tell any shadows or newbies to do this. EDIT: MWAHAHAHAHAHA | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:03 iamperfection wrote: ^its pretty irrelevant if you "knew" marv was scum or not. You have to have the ability to get him lynched which can be extremely difficult. You have to both be able to convince the majority of people (and NOBODY wanted to move off of foolishness except perhaps kita?), AND you know there are still other scum. No matter how convinced I was that marv was scum, I was also convinced on prome. I didn't care a ton about pushing marv super hard because I thought we had scum already. Heck, when trying to see things in a different light, I kept creating prome + x teams, to double check and see if marv was wrong even though I thought he was scum. I never sat down and did marv + x teams to see if some other team magically had everything make sense. I think staying alive while LOOKING scummy to some people, and having some people convinced of your scumminess, is one of the more difficult aspects of playing scum. No matter how scummy you look, you can often just paint someone else scummier, or slightly push town towards another target. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:14 gonzaw wrote: Probably should have, I kept going back to see if I was missing anything in WoS or Toad's filter.Yeah, the problem in LYLO was the whole "Prome is scum, who is his buddy?" At LYLO, in obs qt, marv didn't make any sense as Prome's buddy to me. Maybe that's why I went with austin scum at that time. marv didn't push anybody at LYLO, didn't bus Prome. If Prome flipped scum (which we assumed would happen at that time), marv would look horrible. He wouldn't be pushing anybody when that happened, he would have nothing to go on when N4/D5 falls. Austin already was pushing him as Prome's buddy, so austin had "leverage" when Prome flipped. Austin would just keep pushing marv with all his might. But what would scum marv do? Nothing, he'd go "oh fuck, I guess I have to find the remaining scum now". He would look bad as fuck, he'd have to change his whole plan to see who to pinpoint as scum, and he'd lose credit for that because he would have to come up with that out of nowhere (i.e no townie would really believe him). If marv was scum with Prome his play on LYLO wouldn't make any sense at all. I think that might have been a good opportunity to realize "Wait, something's wrong here". Well, for me it was just jumping into the Prome+austin scumteam. But from austin's POV, maybe you could have come up with something different, and maybe realize Prome was town (since...wel..you wouldn't believe in a Prome+austin scumteam right? lol) But just kept coming up townie on them, so was set. marv was right that he doesn't normally defend scumbuddies, but I honestly don't put a ton of credence into "I don't normally do x as scum" because anyone who knows how they do/don't play can alter something as simple as "don't normally defend buddies." People who are self-aware get less/little credit from me for playing to a particular style except for maybe the folks who have shown an absolute refusal to play much as scum (DI, sandroba). I guess part of it was having so few people and me being townie on Toad, but whenever I tried to find what I was missing, it was always a different partner for prome, never that partner for marv. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 03 2014 03:30 gonzaw wrote: I thought HF's conversation with you about you/Foolishness D1 looked really good, didn't care that he hadn't read HF's filter, and thought that scum would be more worried/doing more/doing something in the last day, given that I thought prome was scum. Why did everybody think Toad was town actually? lol it just kind of happened? | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 03 2014 04:22 marvellosity wrote: Oh no, that's not targeted as you. Just that playing scum sometimes feels more difficult when there's legitimate suspicion on you, and it takes a little practice to realize that suspicion =/= you're dead, and you being scummy =/= you're dead, because everyone else is suspicious for something and scummy for something.Mm. Didn't have a vote on me all game I think? What more could I have done... It's a response to the folks who knew you were scum, or were sure you were scum, or whatever. Regardless of whether you were scummy, you did well to just keep trucking, paint other people as scum, and the people going "marv could be scum this game" "marv doesn't feel right" never actually got anywhere other than just voicing their suspicions. I dunno if everyone saying they had you 1000% scum this game would have gone after you relentlessly or whether they would have just been part of the chorus thinking you were possibly/probably scum. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(also, is that the british spelling?) | ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120122010713/marveldatabase/images/2/2d/024-Otto_Octavius_(Earth-194111).jpg)
