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Foolishness, marv was one of the first to change his vote over to sandro. At that point it was 2 votes against sandro. Don't you think scum marv may have stayed on Foo, who at that point WAS getting lynched (with 4 votes)? It's entirely possible marv bussed sandro, specially if he figured out Hapa and or Prome would change their votes to sandro anyway. But it did happen in the heat of the moment, if marv was scum that decision would have been made in instants, and he didn't seem nervous. It's stuff to take into account you know?
Also Foo, if you end up being town.....damn you Foo; why would you do that? just go on the internet and act like scum?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:27 gonzaw wrote: You two seem kind of bummed. Are you two depressed for some reason? Did your favourite football team lose at the same exact time sandro flipped?
...actually if you are a Manchester United fan that might actually be true so disregard that lolololo
Watch out, gonzaw laying down the soccer smack
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It's part paranoia, but I don't think we can quite read the entire game off of today's lynch. People here are hopefully decent enough not to ALL make scummy votes, or do super scummy stuff, and I know in recent games I've been bitten by assuming scum didn't want scum lynched or blah blah blah.
It wasn't D1 and D1 seems super different cuz you don't want to lose scumbuddies, but...there are enough crafty fellas in this game that I worry about shifting 7-8 reads based on the votes/lynch. Not because I don't agree, but because 1-2 of those shifts are probably scumbuddies and we'll be wrong later.
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Ok, fair enough. Although you can't say this wasn't FUCKING AWESOME, can you?
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Also...ehmm...medics on me tonight obviously >_>
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Oh, it absolutely is. And it IS telling about a bunch of people. Just some of those people may be being tricksy.
It makes me want more last minute shennanies though.
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The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.
I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?
Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:
...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks
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Oh yeah, there's all sorts of fun stuff like that.
I was scummy on prome, but ESPECIALLY given sandro's weak vote on prome (again, PYP LOL featured a SUPER DIFFERENT prome but was also not a great match to draw 1:1 from), prome looks a little better
I was townie on foolish, but the biggest problem I had with him was his sandro stuff, and now sandro is mafia
I was worried about marv, but marv's vote and being on foolish about sandro makes him look real good
But the moral, I suppose, is dm; ls.
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He did show up EXACTLY after sandro voted him, and did in fact just go against Foolishness instead of being suspicious of the super suspiciously sketchy vote on him by the lurker that was AFK the whole game which he bowed to policy lynch.
Meh. Makes a nice conspiracy theory lol
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On January 23 2014 08:53 gonzaw wrote: He did show up EXACTLY after sandro voted him, and did in fact just go against Foolishness instead of being suspicious of the super suspiciously sketchy vote on him by the lurker that was AFK the whole game which he bowed to policy lynch.
Meh. Makes a nice conspiracy theory lol If the two were scum though, I'd HOPE that sandro would...put a little more into that post?
It was a really weak callout, I'd already mentioned the difference between here prome and PYP prome, but sandro just grabs that, dumps a single post, and dips. He got called on it too.
I know sandro is lazy as mafia, but...that's a REALLY lazy way to either get sandro cred when prome flips (because I think at that point it looked like votes were moving to prome and he might be the lynch), or get prome cred when sand flips. The first actually messes with my head more, because I could understand lazy sandro wanting to look okay if prome was going to be the lynch. I can't understand lazy sandro trying to set prome up as lookin' good at that point. Hmmmm. Will have to look at that time, I think it was just prome's third or so vote on him, but thread sentiment may have LOOKED really anti-prome.
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PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT:
Toadesstern has replaced HolyFlare.
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On January 23 2014 08:34 austinmcc wrote: It's part paranoia, but I don't think we can quite read the entire game off of today's lynch. People here are hopefully decent enough not to ALL make scummy votes, or do super scummy stuff, and I know in recent games I've been bitten by assuming scum didn't want scum lynched or blah blah blah.
It wasn't D1 and D1 seems super different cuz you don't want to lose scumbuddies, but...there are enough crafty fellas in this game that I worry about shifting 7-8 reads based on the votes/lynch. Not because I don't agree, but because 1-2 of those shifts are probably scumbuddies and we'll be wrong later. I find it to be almost universally true that on D1 lynches scum will just vote with the rest of town like good little sheep. On TL it's way more common to bus than to try and save a teammate.
In others news, fuck yeah! I knew I had good reason to be thankful I didn't roll scum in this game. Sorry I wasn't around to help with last-second vote shenannies, though I did call the afkers coming back to mess with shit in the last moments of the day.
Not that it matters much, but I can't say I would have been opposed to switching onto sandro were I here; I don't think I would have switched off of Foolishness to Prome though, especially considering I really didn't like sandro's post. I RAN that PYP game and I know exactly how Prome stormed into that thread and posted; the circumstances were completely different and incomparable. I don't know what any of that means for Prome though, likely we just ignore Sandro's late posting entirely and move on.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote: The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.
I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?
Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:
...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks I don't think that's actually possible. Look at the order of events.
Starting at this point where there are 6 votes on me and 3 on Promethelax (keep in mind this is 12 minutes before the deadline): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820
The six votes on me are (in order of when they occurred): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli.
Now there is definitely some analysis to be done on how these votes accumulated on me but I will save that for later.
At this point gonzaw started the switch on sandroba. Austin immediately joined in. Now only gonzaw was voting on me so I'm still winning by a landslide. It's possible that they did this thinking there is no way a bandwagon on sandroba would start, but I highly doubt they would have that attitude. That is, entertain the thought for a second that gonzaw/Austin are actually mafia. They could just hammer the vote on me to ensure a town lynch (incredibly easy for gonzaw to do, Austin could just toss his vote on Promethelax or somewhere else). But that didn't happen.
Then marvellosity switches his vote as well. At this point I have 4 votes and Promethelax and sandroba both have 3.
Hapa and Promethelax also follow shortly after.
It's definitely clear that the switch to sandroba was started and enforced by towns. This was not mafia bussing each other. The big question to answer here is: what reason would mafia have for switching off of me onto sandroba? If I'm town, there's definitely no reason to. I'm hovering around 50% of votes (HolyFlare's vote isn't going to count), it'd be so easy to just ensure that I got voted. The only scenario where the mafia would have reason to switch is if I'm also mafia (which isn't true). But that scenario, however absurd, would be reasonable, thinking that I'm more valuable to the mafia than sandroba is at this point.
Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax. This seems to make a lot more sense given how that went down.
What does this all mean? Mafia could have ensured I was lynched if they were on the vote switch, so why bother vote switching in the first place? No, mafia did not vote switch. What's more likely is that the mafia were voting for me but not on the switch (VE, WoS) or the mafia were all voting for Promethelax (me, sandroba, kitaman). Note that kitaman was going against sandroba during day 1.
Remember that assuming Promethelax is town, mafia were in a great position at the end of the day. Town Foolishness has 6 votes and the runner up at 3 votes is also town. This is great for them cause they get to decide who's getting lynched. If I'm mafia why is there not more votes on Promethelax and where is my team to defend me? Sure I got kitaman pushing for Promethelax but I was in a desperate situation there. Things wouldn't have unfolded the way they did if that was the case.
So instead this means that mafia were likely already voting for me. But they wouldn't want to go with the vote switch since that was on a mafia. VE is the only person that fits this bill since he was strangely absent during lynch time (and he posted 15 minutes after the lynch). WoS would be gone but I did feel his vote on me was questionable (will look into that later don't worry). Mafia were voting for me and were sitting comfortably, and when a vote switch happened they weren't around for it.
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Apparently I don't get an obs-QT and have to play instead, hi everyone.
Haven't read a thing yet because artanis forgot to send me an obs-QT link and I didn't even know this started. Starting reading now but it's 1am... so probably some more tomorrow.
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In fact, I may have to go back and consider how the day was moving. Scum is likely to be hyper-aware of where thread sentiment was at the time; it gives incentive for afk scum to return and try to either look good at a crucial time or move vulnerable townies where they want them moved. Shennanies obviously mess with this a great deal, but I'm wondering if the timing of Prome's/Foolishness's returns and the way they posted implicates them any further.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I've been following but not thinking because i'm with le other half. I would say that that Fool post ^ looks pretty good.
See y'all tomorrow. welcome toad also
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On January 23 2014 09:04 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote: The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.
I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?
Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:
...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks I don't think that's actually possible. Look at the order of events. Starting at this point where there are 6 votes on me and 3 on Promethelax (keep in mind this is 12 minutes before the deadline): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820The six votes on me are (in order of when they occurred): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli. Now there is definitely some analysis to be done on how these votes accumulated on me but I will save that for later. At this point gonzaw started the switch on sandroba. Austin immediately joined in. Now only gonzaw was voting on me so I'm still winning by a landslide. It's possible that they did this thinking there is no way a bandwagon on sandroba would start, but I highly doubt they would have that attitude. That is, entertain the thought for a second that gonzaw/Austin are actually mafia. They could just hammer the vote on me to ensure a town lynch (incredibly easy for gonzaw to do, Austin could just toss his vote on Promethelax or somewhere else). But that didn't happen. Then marvellosity switches his vote as well. At this point I have 4 votes and Promethelax and sandroba both have 3. Hapa and Promethelax also follow shortly after. It's definitely clear that the switch to sandroba was started and enforced by towns. This was not mafia bussing each other. The big question to answer here is: what reason would mafia have for switching off of me onto sandroba? If I'm town, there's definitely no reason to. I'm hovering around 50% of votes (HolyFlare's vote isn't going to count), it'd be so easy to just ensure that I got voted. The only scenario where the mafia would have reason to switch is if I'm also mafia (which isn't true). But that scenario, however absurd, would be reasonable, thinking that I'm more valuable to the mafia than sandroba is at this point. Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax. This seems to make a lot more sense given how that went down. What does this all mean? Mafia could have ensured I was lynched if they were on the vote switch, so why bother vote switching in the first place? No, mafia did not vote switch. What's more likely is that the mafia were voting for me but not on the switch (VE, WoS) or the mafia were all voting for Promethelax (me, sandroba, kitaman). Note that kitaman was going against sandroba during day 1. Remember that assuming Promethelax is town, mafia were in a great position at the end of the day. Town Foolishness has 6 votes and the runner up at 3 votes is also town. This is great for them cause they get to decide who's getting lynched. If I'm mafia why is there not more votes on Promethelax and where is my team to defend me? Sure I got kitaman pushing for Promethelax but I was in a desperate situation there. Things wouldn't have unfolded the way they did if that was the case. So instead this means that mafia were likely already voting for me. But they wouldn't want to go with the vote switch since that was on a mafia. VE is the only person that fits this bill since he was strangely absent during lynch time (and he posted 15 minutes after the lynch). WoS would be gone but I did feel his vote on me was questionable (will look into that later don't worry). Mafia were voting for me and were sitting comfortably, and when a vote switch happened they weren't around for it. Problem here is the fact that there is nothing that precludes scum (assuming they were around) from realizing where things were going and jumping aboard. Scum on TL bus. All the damn time. It's what they do, and I wouldn't put it past them to do it here too.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
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