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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
/in if I'm allowed. Basically I played like 3-4 games here around 3 years ago. And I played right now one game in II Titanic Mafia, so I'm over the limit but I'm deffo a newb in mafia and most of my experience is really old. So if you would have me I would like to play. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
@players, im vanilla town so I dont see any reasons for you to not like me  | ||
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sidesprang
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see you in 72 hours | ||
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sidesprang
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On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote: Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals. You don't see a reason why people should help Bella with creating a "tough environment for mafia to hide in and lynch some mafia" ? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Anyhow, regarding the lurker situation, I will +1 Balla's idea. As long as we get everyone to contribute in some way it will make the game so much easier. But for my experience lurkers are not more mafia than town, my last game two lurkers got modkilled day 3 and they were both town, so we should push them to contribute and not blindly lynch them because of it. If we get to the end of day1 and we have no strong scumreads I can support a lurkerlynch just because that could be the best option. But untill then I won't be talking about lynching lurkers. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote: Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more. @ onlywonderboy atm he is just null for me. from his PoV he has only stated obvious things so far. It not really contributing atm, but its to early to fault him for that. And he does say he is going to more active and contribute with meaningfull analysis, so as long as he atleast tries to do this we should be able to read him in the future. @ thechyz, I don't like him atm. In his first post he says he agrees with you and dont mind lynching lurkers to discourage lurking. But then in his second post he says he see no reason to why people should help you achivieving that same agenda he just agreed with. Feels very much like a contradiction to me. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
##Vote theDragoon On January 07 2014 07:21 theDragoon wrote: /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Man this sucks so much. Rollplay fallen so far atm, no idea if It can ever pick up again :S | ||
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sidesprang
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sidesprang
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Also, why did you change your mind and wanted to defend yourself afterall ? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Also why is suki scum if you flip town? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
I'm here now, so if you wanna lynch me why don't you poke me for some reads or something. Kinda like the plan was with lurkers in the start of the day... | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Atleast that is what pops to my head first when trying to see it from a mafia perspective. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
There are only two reasons to lynch a lurker as I see it. 1. There are no clear active mafia candidate 2. You will never be able to read the lurker. I think when he posts some more we will be able to get a read on him, its not like he is posting one liners. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
As it looks now either theDragoon, Day_Walker or a lurker will be lynched. So I tried to look into those so I could place my vote in a place where it will hopefully matter. And also provide the rationale for my vote. Regarding the lurkers, as I said before I do not think its wise to lynch a lurker just because they are lurking. I also do think that all is posting enough so we can form reads later on. Votes will help with providing reads on them. So i'm not really to worried about this atm. Day_Walker When I read his filter I see a possibility for him being scum, however I think its way more likely for him to be scum if theDragoon is scum. I feel he gave him a weak townread in the start with his list. And when BigDad says he find Day_Walker and theDragon both became overly defensive about it. And also as chinstrap pointed out making a scumcase for the lurkers and a towncase for theDragoon, is something that very well can be done as scum regardless of theDragoon's allignment. And the more I think about it, I think it's more likely to be done if he is scum. If he makes a case for theDragoon is town then if he flips town he gets cred. If he flips scum then he tried to save his buddy. I do however feel this is very circumstantial and I would not feel comfortable lynching him, but this is what I read when I tried to view him as scum. theDragoon He seems overly defensive and to scared when stuff is coming his way. If I counted correct he had 4 votes on him when he martyred. I'm really not a big fan of people voting for themselves or giving up, and the fact that he did it so early aswell makes it worse imo. I think it felt a lot worse to him than it was because he is scum. This is also how I feel with a lot of his posts prior. The whole "him trusting DW" and them being a scum togheter just feels like he is way to scared of attention than he should be. I'm not sure why he turned and started defending himself again, I would not be suprised if he got talked into it by the scum QT. His defence is also weak, I dont feel he is trying to make a good case for himself, and actually prove he is town. Half of the post he tries to refute some points, and the other half he is just pointing fingers. Atm he knows he is on the chopping block, but he left the thread again which makes me think he have given up again. I will keep my vote on theDragoon. I feel he is the most likely to flip scum. As I said I will leave and prolly not come back before deadline so if anyone got question ask them fast. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
It might just be because I know now that theDragoon is town. But his posts in the end is actually a really good and convincing defence. Like I dont think he would have done that as scum. And I would say atleast johnny and OWB are more town for doing that voteswitch. Reason being: If we actually lynched dnyarri and he came up town, they kinda stuck their neck out for nothing. The way they changed vote without any explanation and kinda out of the blue would have been hard to explain. Especially with a green lynch on their vote swap. I don't think scum would have taken that risk. On the other hand, seeing how it went down. I can't fault others for not following, especially since I can only now read theDragoons post while knowing he is town. Its a bit hard for me to judge how much towny he looked before the vote. I think we should spend some more energy on looking at the votes. I'll try to see if I can find something. And we also need to get dynarri to talk more. Atm he is the only one that is not contributing enough to be able to read properly. I thought / hoped he would be more active than this. So Dnyarri: What are your current reads, and what do you think about the vote swaps onto you yesterday? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
But atleast, If there are a town roleblocker I think you should roleblock Asuna again just on the odd chance he is SK. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
One point I have not seen brought up yet. Is the KP, I kinda assumed that there was gonna be 2 KP, either by mafia having 2 or 1 from mafia and 1 from SK. But since there were only one scum kill and no one discussed the possibility that they could have 2 and that we had a medic save or RB or whatever kinda leads me to believe they only have 1. Can anyone confirm to me that 1 KP is the norm in this setup? And another point, why are we excluding 6T's, on the link it seems like innocent child is a green role and not a power role. So dont we only have 1 confirmed blue at this point, And that will make 6T's possible ? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
I'm trying to read into Derrida's filter, and I think Day_Walker also comes out more town from it. I doubt a he would buddy up like he did in the first post if Day_Walker was scum. I think it would be more an attempt to pocket him than anything else. Also when reading Derrida's first post, he fails to mention both Asuna and Dnyarri. I have only read up on Dnyarri atm, but I really can not understand how you can fail to mention Dnyarri in a list like he made. He had only posted two post by that time. + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2014 20:05 dnyarri wrote: I think TheChyz is suspicious. First he says (s)he wants so lynch lurkers anyway. When people started to suspect him/her (s)he said that (s)he did it on purpose to catch bandwagoners. Bandwagons however give lurkers easy targets which seems contradicts his/her original agenda of lynching lurkers. Also, TheChyz has only brought confusion and only potentially useful analysis (s)he has brought to table is against Day_Walker who was attacking TheChyz with the list. It appears more like TheChyz is trying to save his/her skin. Though I think Day_Walker is suspicious because of the list, I find TheChyz more suspicious and I don't believe that as a scum Day_Walker would attack another scums this early. ##Vote: TheChyz + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote: Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316 TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon In two posts, Dnyari votes for two different people. And his posts looks rather fishy to me. With posts like those two how can you not mention Dnyarri in a list like that. Unless you had a reason not to. That coupled with derrida trying to prevent us from lynching lurkers, and in essence to save dnyarri makes me believe there is a high chance dnyarri is scum. ##Vote Dnyarri | ||
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sidesprang
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sidesprang
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I also took note of the post you are refering to, and find it somewhat wierd. Tho my thoughts where more that why would he say those things about Derrida if town allready moved past ? Unless he knew derrida was scum and he went overly defensive about it. I read up on a few of his old games: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&user=onlywonderboy¤tpage=3 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430766&user=onlywonderboy I do feel his scumgame resembles this game more than his towngame. Tho I might just see what I want to see, so if someone else can also take a look at it, that would be nice. Also you played with him before Balla could you give some more insight since you were in those games. I feel he is more passive and talks about non reads stuff in his scum game, which I also feel he has been doing to some extent here. And in his town game he seems to be tring a lot more to find scum. Also if you check his profile you can see he is active here on TL.net. So why is he not posting more ? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
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sidesprang
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On January 11 2014 06:24 Balla24 wrote: ¨Sidesprang. You had this to say about OWB. Yet now you don't want to lynch him? Who do you think is scum with dnyarri if you think dnyarri is so scummy? Because I think its more likely that dnyarri is scum ? I posted what I did because I was unsure about OWB, and wanted more input. And also wanted to provide the things I found to the town. As then others might see something I don't. Atm I think its more likely and more rewarding to lynch dynarri. I see no strong cases for OWB, and feel we might just go away from dynarri because it felt to easy. So I would rather stick with my original read. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
The reason I did not mind dnyarri today was because he pretty much went into lurking even harder, and the thing I pointed out with derrida not mentioning him in his opening post. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
On January 11 2014 06:52 Balla24 wrote: Derrida's interactions with sidesprang is the only thing that makes me worried. Because he said "i felt scummy" ? And for some reason I never found that attack worth defending ? | ||
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sidesprang
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On January 12 2014 03:22 Balla24 wrote: @Sidesprang How is this good logic for saying Day_walker comes out more town from it? It's terrible logic actually. You have no idea if he would buddy up like that or not. None whatsoever. I think it's VERY likely he buddied up to one of his teammates and started bussing the other (while not pushing too hard). @Balla And I do not think it's likely. And your logic about this point is very bad. Your point against me is that I have no idea if he would buddy up or not. But you know what you dont either. It's all speculation at this point anyhow, but I think it's less likely that he would do that to a scumbuddy than not. simple as that. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
D1 after doing some analysis -> I'm not comfortable lynching him. D2 getting townread from flipped scum -> less inclined to lynch him. | ||
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sidesprang
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On January 12 2014 04:01 Balla24 wrote: Note: "I'm not comfortable lynching him" does not mean "I don't feel scummy on him" you very clearly felt scummy on him D1. I feel you are really bad at reading my posts. I state the reason for me doing that analysis is that he was one of the two possible lynch candidates at that time. And since I was going out and would not be there for the last hours I felt I should atleast look into them both. I said it could be possible that he was scum, but mostly if theDragoon also was scum. But I also said I felt that theory was very circumstantial. So how you get that post to be "you very clearly felt scummy on him D1" I dont even know.... | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
On January 12 2014 13:17 TheChyz wrote: Ok so at the moment we have a one-shot vigi and innocent child confirmed as well as a goon. Im assuming that there are no vigi's or masons (since they are very unlikely), and if there are please come on out. That means that out of the 7 power roles, 2 are gone. That means there are power roles left. If they all belong to scum that means their powerroles are only 1 goon, 1 GF, and 1 SK. That means there is NO ROLEBLOCKER. In which case Asuna is lying. I think that now is a good time to come out with a role if you have one. Because if there is no other town roles, ASUNA IS LYING and is either GF or SK. The cool part is that if I am correct nobody should fake claim since asuna will be alone (if either mafia or sk). ##Vote: Asuna Role claim now. I am Vanilla Townie. In your post before the daypost, you said that IF there were TWO kills this night we should look at Balla and Asuna. Now there were only ONE kill but you are for some reason ready to lynch Asuna. What changed in your logic that made you go after Asuna afterall ? | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Firstly I did not try to give myself an excuse for not doing the voteswap. I had in my previous post said that I would not be there for the vote. So why would I need another excuse ? And I'm not trying to make the point that theDragoon and OWB is green if dnyarri is green. I'm trying to point out that Johnny and OWB is more green because of the voteswap. Because if the voteswap succeeded they would have nothing to gain from dnyarris death. If dnyarri was green -> they look scummy. If dnyarri is red -> they bussed a scummate when they absolutly did not have to. The reason I said it's hard to me to judge how much towny theDragoon looked after the vote was because when I came back I read the flip. So when reading those posts I KNEW he was town. Therefor I wont sit on my high horse and say he was obvious town and blame others for not realizing it in the heat of the moment. I see nothing that is inconsistent, Also I did not piggy-back your analysis of OWB. I made a post that was simmilar to yours yes. I looked into OWB because I got paranoid since the lynch went so easy. I found a few points, but in the end to me it felt more like confirmation bias on my side than anything else. So I decided to stick with my vote on dnyarri. Reasoning for me not mentioning BigDad is just because he has been under my radar. But I'm sure if you look you will find more ppl I did not mention? In general I dont talk about people I dont have reads on ATM I'm thinking the scumteam is between BigDad, dnyarri and TheChiz. I've not had time to write big cases like you. But I will hopefully do it early tomorrow so we will have time to discuss before the vote. | ||
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sidesprang
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sidesprang
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@Dnyarri This guy is reading towny for me now. His play since mid day 2 and onward has been good imo, and his response to why he was lurking felt genuine and honest. I wont rule out him being scum, but for each post it seems less likely. And we got bigger fish to fry imo. @TheChyz This guy is my top scumread ATM. I really dislike his playstyle, and someone (I think suki) said it was to bad to be scum, but It's also to bad to be town. In the first hours this day he managed to out the cop for no reason. Pretty much everyone else believed Asuna as long as there was only 1 kill. And the fact that there was one more power role out there was VERY likely. You also asked for blue roles to out themselves only to say you did not like Asuna outing herself, I dont get this logic. And you can't just brush it off with you trying to aggressivly trap someone. Where is the trap? And what have you learned from your trapping plays. Please explain to me how your play would make sense from a town perspective, what where your goals, and what did you learn from it ? On another note when I read his filter is that during day one and night one his top scumread was Day_Walker pretty clearly. But when we get to day two you did not mention or fight for him at all, you just followed the flavour of the moment kills. Why is that ? I get the feeling you did not really care to much about who got lynched. @BigDad This guy is hard to read for me. But the biggest scumsign for me is that I feel all his vote are weak. The reasoning behind them I dont find sound at all. Tho it can just be because he is new and is not really good at scumhunting (I get the tell that he is bad in several other posts like the two where he is asking for vig/cop shots). I know I'm currenty very wishy-washy on this guy. I will take another look at Day_Walker because he is now my third pick, and since my filterdive on BigDad did not find very much. Currently I think TheChyz is the best choice and I will vote him. He needs to provide some good and sound logic for his agressivly trapping plays for me to unvote him. ##Vote TheChyz | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
"Please explain to me how your play would make sense from a town perspective, what where your goals, and what did you learn from it ?" This is the only thing I can see that resembles some sort of an answer, but it only very briefly is talking about the last part. "I think I have many times. From them I have gotten that it is either DW, you (sidesprang), or Bigdad. Currently I am thinking more DW - sidesprang as I have posted before as to my reasoning before." So I do not feel I have gotten an answer the question. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
On January 16 2014 00:30 suki wrote: Linking Day_Walker and sidesprang together: Sidesprang posted: This can be seen as a soft defense of Day_Walker, knowing that sidesprang knows theDragoon is not mafia. Sidesprang posted: Sidesprang flips back and forth on whether he thinks Day_Walker is scum, or not. His final verdict is he would not be comfortable lynching Day_Walker. Another defense. Aside from these two early non-scum reads on Day_Walker, sidesprang has not commented on Day_Walker. I think this supports the Day_Walker/sidesprang scum team theory, because Day_Walker has been in the spotlight for the last few days and sidesprang hasn't commented on him once. In Day_Walker's first post, he lists sidesprang as town (along with everyone else). Shortly after sidesprang bandwagoned onto theDragoon, Day_Walker posts his anti-lurker post where he votes dnyarri for being a scummy lurker. Sidesprang is in that list as well. Balla had already commented that sidesprang's vote looked like a bus, so it's a good move to include sidesprang in the list of lynch targets. Day_Walker doesn't actually say that sidesprang looks scummy though. In one of Day_Walker's more recent posts he proposes dnyarri+Asuna+Derrida scum team. He later backs down but doesn't propose a new team. There's a total absence of comment on sidesprang from Day_Walker. In addition, Day_Walker and sidesprang avoided voting on the same people in all three lynches so far. There's ample reason for Mafia to not vote together, especially when town is so confused. I feel that Day_Walker and sidesprang can be explained by their weak reads and lack of posts against each other, as well as their voting patterns. I'm sorry, but nothing of this points to me being scum, and every link you are finding is more confirmation bias than anything. On page 58 you said I was scum with BigDad because I never mentioned him. Now I'm scum with Day_walker because I hardly mentioned him. TBH its just seems to me that you are reading filters, and dont look at when or why the posts are being made. And when you find something that supports your theory you think you have found something. That is a very backwards way of going about finding scum. If I was scum with Day_Walker I really dont understand why i would bother defending him when it was like 8 votes vs 2. Seems like a dumb idea to link us togheter, especially when my defence for him is that bad. Regarding the lurker list of Day_Walker that is not allignment indicative due to the fact I was lurking (or I was not lurking but I was not there for like 24h). If we are scum togheter or not he has to mention me because I was lurking. Regarding dnyarri + asuna + derrida scum team, why would he mention me there. If he believes in that theory he found all scummers. The voting part = confirmation bias again. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Dnyarri from my PoV = confirmed town. Asuna, the scenarios that makes her scum / SK is just far to unlikely at this point. Asuna = confirmed town. That leaves me with 3 unconfirmed town, and I've been looking plenty at them all. But I really can't seem to put together a case for scum on any. However Suki have played way way more protown, so I'm fairly certain that scum should be Day_Walker and BigDad. If not the scummers have played really well. ##Vote Day_Walker I know this wont be so easy for you to see, as I know I'm town and you don't. But it's all I got. | ||
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
@Lonemeow, really nice run,and the flavor was really good imo. Acutally read it this time around @Artanis, good job as coach. I prolly should have used you more, but I found it hard to ask you stuff without asking for to much  This was a pretty rough game for town, we got schooled pretty much. I felt Balla and Johnny was pretty clearly town early on, so they did a really good job on that. theDragoon you managed to put up a good defence in the end, it was a bit late. But for next time just do the same and you will hopefully be able to sway people away from you. dnyarri you lurked like hell but you came through pretty towny in the end so that was well done aswell. I have no idea what that theChyz play was at the end, and at that point I started to get frustrated with how the game was going. Tbh I felt it was easier reading people in II Titanic, might just be because there was more posts there in general. And also stronger players that could lead me! (DP / Rayn <3). I guess the good thing to take away from this game for me is that I did not get lynched. Tho I deffo need to work on my scumhunting skills cause they are close to non exsistant... | ||
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