TL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die - Page 17

51
austinmcc
11-22-2013
07:18 PM ET (US)
If you've been scum, you might play differently. Otherwise, it's absolutely on the table because today has probably been somewhat of a mess for town, and there's a boatload of thread to read for scum. Scum looks at votes, sees they're sitting pretty, and absolutely wouldn't want to read the thread and participate.

50
austinmcc
11-22-2013
07:17 PM ET (US)
Have you played any scum games? Just wondering.

At least for some/most people, playing scum is really tough. You have to fake activity, you have to fake scumreads, it's just...way more WORK it feels like and people are ACCUSING you of being EVIL and also, YOU ARE EVIL. It can be terrible.

So it's stupid to do that, sure, but I know I have just straight up afked some days as scum, because I didn't feel like reading the thread, responding to accusations, or doing much. There's less motivation because your goal is to HIDE, rather than to SOLVE. I don't think it's too uncommon.

49
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
07:07 PM ET (US)
Really weird. But wouldn't it be kind of stupid to intentionally do that as scum?

48
austinmcc
11-22-2013
06:59 PM ET (US)
What do you make of thrawn being active in another game but not this one?

47
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
06:33 PM ET (US)
Add more confusion, have people swap votes and occasionally bus each other when there's no real risk of getting lynched?

46
austinmcc
11-22-2013
06:29 PM ET (US)
Pretend you're mafia today, and I dunno how much exp you have playing as mafia, so feel free to MAKE IT ALL UP if you want. But, pretend you're mafia.

How are you playing today? It is double lynch. You have 4 teammates. It's likely 1-2 of you is under SOME suspicion, maybe 1 guy under lots.

We're closing in on lynch and votes are everywhere, on everyone, for reasons that you KNOW nobody in town can follow. What do you do?

45
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
06:08 PM ET (US)
No wait, missed the timing of the vote, doesn't make sense that he'd have voted a scum buddy hoping someone would follow.

44
austinmcc
11-22-2013
06:03 PM ET (US)
Why grack?

43
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
06:00 PM ET (US)
Scum supersoft would also make Grackaroni a very interesting person.

42
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:58 PM ET (US)
If he'd flip scum then Alakaslam, BloodyC0bbler and Holyflare would all look bad.

if he'd flip town, then Koshi and you would look interesting. Possibly also Oatsmaster.

41
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:47 PM ET (US)
In your mind, what does supersoft's flip say about people? Both town and scum flips.

40
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:45 PM ET (US)
I'd be very tempted to shoot supersoft. His flip would be very useful, but I'm still not very satisfied that he actually is scum.

BloodyC0bbler isn't a bad choice either, I just can't get any kind of read on him, everything he says seems like it could come from either alignment. I suspect it would help if I had played with him before.

39
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:41 PM ET (US)
Yourself?

38
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:41 PM ET (US)
I shoot BC 80000000000000000%.

If BC is mafia, oats is not, and people get off his nuts. If BC is mafia, grack is VERY VERY VERY likely town. I think. Maybe. It also makes thrawn look much worse for his saying BC's take on the mocsta/grack interactions so sexy. Also very telling of mig's alignment, scum BC = 99.999% town mig.

I think BC is a lynchpin here and...needs to get lynched?

37
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:38 PM ET (US)
If you could shoot one person now, before the lynch, who would you shoot? Ie. of the people you find scummy, whose flip do you think would help us figure out the game?

36
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:27 PM ET (US)
rayn had a good post on it somewhere. Basically, ss didn't mention looking at mocsta until late in the day. And with like 10-15 minutes left, he was looking elsewhere and still saying he was checking mocsta's filter.

He never said I AM GOING TO LYNCH MOCSTA, he just kept dropping that name and saying he was reading, even as we got very close to lynch.

All he has to do is find SOME reason not to lynch mocsta over anyone else. Not too hard.

35
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:25 PM ET (US)
Assuming supersoft is scum, what would he have done with the D1 lynch given that he had hinted he would lynch Mocsta?

34
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:19 PM ET (US)
Not anyone majorly from what I remember. Yamato I think was decently set on BH, and BH wasn't scum. VE had a big fat list of people, most of whom weren't scum.

Supersoft MIGHT have lynched mocsta, in which case we look for flight off supersoft. That implicates me and Koshi. I know I'm town, I really think Koshi's town, so I don't get anywhere on that. However, we can also look for votes moving to NOT supersoft, in an attempt to get someone else elected over him --> again all the late votes on VE look alright, and the late votes on Yamato are like..>Vayne and Grack, unsure when they came in.

I don't see anything particularly damning in the votes unless ss is mafia. Assuming BC is mafia, I still think SOME of the votes on him could be mafia, but otherwise I'm not really getting anything except just a basic assumption that scum want SOME influence.

33
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:16 PM ET (US)
That makes sense. Assuming all candidates were town, would that implicate someone?


austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:14 PM ET (US)
Even if they don't run someone, in my head, they at least want some say in who is mayor. They can look at likely targets, and try to avoid anyone that is trying to actually lynch mafia.

This assumes anyone was, and that mayoral candidates were posting scum lists and discussing lynches, which they super weren't.

31
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:11 PM ET (US)
Of course if they didn't even try to run for mayor/pardoner they wouldn't have any need whatsoever to consolidate, but this is just WIFOM.

I am kind of wanting to like supersoft for scum, because that would make the mayoral votes make much more sense, but that's quite incompatible with Pandain being scum...

30
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:07 PM ET (US)
I'm having problems with the mayoral votes now. We have 6 scum. We know mocsta is scum, and ended the day voting for himself as the only person. That means 5 scum votes in play.

I THINK thrawn is scum, not as super hard as BC and others, but think it. Maybe hard, I dunno. Game so wonky. If thrawm is scum, that means that scumHiro voted himself and left his vote there throughout the day. Means only FOUR scum votes in play.

Now, hiro was AFK and had to be replaced, so maybe that's legitimate. But if Thrawn and mocsta are BOTH scum, and scum only have 4 remaining votes, i DON'T see them stranding any votes, like Onegu. No way he sits on himself when they've already lost 1/3 of their influence on the thread. It's POSSIBLE this implicates people like slam, rayn, and other folks who were on themselves but later consolidated, except i think it's more likely scum is just scattered, and since I think BC is scum I kind of question some votes on him, which I guess implicates cheese and slam. Don't think mafia runs BC and supersoft against each other? Probably not.

29
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:01 PM ET (US)
Also, I kind of agree that Onegu might be town. Not a very solid read though. Didn't really think his campaign was very alignment indicative but the rest of it gives town read on gut even though he's not really participating as much as I'd expect. He hasn't lurker as scum in any game I've played with him though so perhaps the lurking isn't very alignment indicative.

28
austinmcc
11-22-2013
05:00 PM ET (US)
Unsure.

27
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:59 PM ET (US)
What about Alakaslam? I keep swapping him between town and scum in my notes...

26
austinmcc
11-22-2013
04:57 PM ET (US)
His filter is tiny. His mayoral campaign got no support, I don't know why mafia would campaign for mayor without ANY support whatsoever, and keep that going. His big HF post/case on D1 blew, imo, and felt scummy. His justifications when I asked him about that post felt like butt, but he continued the same thought process about HF asking questions while not speaking himself (something that I disagreed with him on).

He responds to Marv's posting of the town/scum numbers, gut read that's town.

I like Onegu for town. His filter reads townie to me in enough points that it outdoes his early poopcase on HF.

25
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:51 PM ET (US)
Thoughts on Onegu?

24
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:50 PM ET (US)
There's not a single person I'd consider town enough that I wouldn't want to retain the option to lynch them later if it turns out I've been wrong.

If I could remove votes, I'd take raynpelikoneet and Alakaslam at least, the former is just impossible to follow and the latter is very much random and defies any attempts at figuring out. Don't have a third name right now.

23
austinmcc
11-22-2013
04:41 PM ET (US)
Okay. If you could ... remove 5 people from lynchability for the rest of the game, who would you choose? People you think are super duper duper mega town.

If you could remove votes from 3 people in the game, who and why? Scum, you think they're making poor decisions, etc. etc.

22
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:40 PM ET (US)
I don't super agree with them, no. Koshi is the one I'm most afraid of, because if I'm wrong about him and he is actually scum it means I'm probably wrong about a lot of other things.

21
austinmcc
11-22-2013
04:31 PM ET (US)
So you're not a big fan of any of yamato's final reads? This isn't a trap, this is just...he wrote koshi/thrawn if useless/oats. I just want to see if you agree/disagree with them, and it looks like you are town/town/? on those three.

20
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:29 PM ET (US)
I'm really torn on Koshi. I expected him to query me in the mason QT far more than he did, he was just being very friendly which gives me bad vibes. On the other hand, yamato was also quite friendly in our mason QT and he was town... Koshi's thread presence gives me slight town read, but I'm not at all certain I can read him very well.

I don't think thrawn2112 is scum unless my Pandain read is wrong. And if we talk about useless, you could add players like Mr. Cheesecake, myself, Alakaslam and Onegu to the list pretty much.

The last read I had on Oatsmaster was pretty null-ish, I'll go and check his filter (I need to do that to evaluate supersoft's claim anyway).

19
austinmcc
11-22-2013
04:18 PM ET (US)
If BC is scum, it makes Oats very very very very very likely town. It makes Mig likely town.

It possibly implicates cheese, possibly you, because he goes off on a lot of inactive-y folks but not the two of you. Quit possibly thrawn as well.

In each case, he really doesn't say anything about that set of folks, he has a COUPLE of interactions with thrawn, but it's always thrawn going, "Hey BC, tell me about x!" and not really much else. Thrawn less implicated because of that, but I could see him just helping BC push an agenda, specifically, BC's interpretation of mocsta's flip and interactions.

18
austinmcc
11-22-2013
04:13 PM ET (US)
You masoned yamato D1. Out of his reads late into N1, which do you like best? His filter for reference - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...r=yamato77&view=all

Koshi, thrawn is he's useless (and he has been useless), oats, anything out of that group do something for you?

17
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
04:12 PM ET (US)
I see your vote is on BloodyC0bbler. If he is scum, would you say that would implicate anyone else?

16
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
03:57 PM ET (US)
He can't really copy what someone else said since the only "case" on me is raynpelikoneet's "scumslip" case more or less. (There are some "he's lurking" cases but those are hardly good enough for _top_ scum read, I'd think.)

Couple of things that make me think he might be scum:

1. claims it is advantageous for town to get the assassins out
2. twice essentially says there are scum doctors (not maybe, just flat out there are scum doctors)
3. wished for Stutters modkill
4. kind of backpedaled on BH (called BH scum, then a bit later he was still scum but not best lynch anymore)
5. ignores me when I ask for reasons on his read on me

None of this alone would be very indicative of anything but it adds up...

15
austinmcc
11-22-2013
03:41 PM ET (US)
Imo, scumpandain could easily cook something up. He's comfortable enough as scum to be pretty active, and other people had already put reasons in thread why they found you scummy. If he really needed a reason, he could just copy paste someone else's and say he agreed, throw a slight spin on it to add his own stuff.

In the same vein, last time you gave reads, I see Pandain/Mig/me. Why is pandain a top read? All you say is that he looked bad, then good, but now you're his top scum read so he's back on your list. Apart from his interaction with you, do you actively find him scummy?

14
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
03:37 PM ET (US)
Scumpandain doesn't have actual reasons so he would have to cook something up.

Townpandain might be... lazy?

This is kind of the crux, I can't think of reasonable reasons why he'd ignore my request if he's town.

13
austinmcc
11-22-2013
03:35 PM ET (US)
Why does scumpandain ignore your request?
Why does townpandain ignore your request?

12
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
03:27 PM ET (US)
There could be reasons. My problem is with him ignoring me when I ask for said reasons.

11
austinmcc
11-22-2013
03:23 PM ET (US)
Mildly. But as scum, pandain could easily make up a reason, including a reason that sounded different.

Given that his town read was based purely on your actions in masoning Yamato, you don't think there's any reason for his read to have changed?

10
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
03:14 PM ET (US)
Pandain avoiding explaining his sudden read changes on me is scummy. Agree/disagree?

9
austinmcc
11-22-2013
03:01 PM ET (US)
Ugh. Everything by everyone.

I claimed vet during N2 resolution.

Supersoft claimed RB. Claims to have told BC in mason chat D1 that he was town RB and blocking oats.

Vayne claimed hatter.

Rayn previously claimed hatter, says he was lying.

Cheesecake continues to say I'm the doctor, but not in a serious way.

Mig claimed 2-shot vigi, shot sharrant N1, mattchew N2.

Grack sort of claimed mason, but isn't one.

The mason logs between SS and pandain show pandain claiming Vet. Pandain says he never claimed vet.

8
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
02:59 PM ET (US)
Can you give me a quick TL;DR version of the claims that happened during early D3 or so? I haven't had time to figure that out yet.

7
austinmcc
11-22-2013
02:50 PM ET (US)
Okay. Don't even worry about this supersoft/BC/oats stuff if you don't already have thoughts about it. I just want to sit down and have a nice rapid fire conversation, want to see quick honest thoughts and want to give you some quick honest thoughts and see where you think I'm wrong / missing things / etc.

6
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
02:41 PM ET (US)
Yes, just got home half an hour ago. Trying to catch up and reading Pandain's filter.

5
austinmcc
11-22-2013
02:37 PM ET (US)
I am back.

You around?

4
austinmcc
11-22-2013
10:16 AM ET (US)
Also Hi! We haven't played together from what I remember.

3
austinmcc
11-22-2013
10:15 AM ET (US)
Yup Yup. I just checked this and have to run shortly, but I will be able to be active in here in...like 3.5 or so hours?

You're more than welcome to get active in thread, you've just been somewhat absent today and are on some peoples' lists of folks to lynch, and I wanted to see more from you to figure out whether to move you up or down. I know you're just catching up, but if you could at least look at supersoft/BC/oats stuff, that would be helpful. (supersoft claims BC masons him D1, supersoft claims he's town RB and going to RB oats, supersoft isn't blocked, we don't have all the KP accounted for, therefore supersoft thinks BC town/oats mafia)

2
LoneMeow
11-22-2013
05:13 AM ET (US)
Hello. I believe you wanted to chat with me.
1
marvellosity
11-22-2013
04:52 AM ET (US)
LoneMeow + austinmcc mason Day 3/Night 3