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/in 
On September 28 2013 09:46 iamperfection wrote:
Replacements
Replacements will be done until the start of night 3. If you need to replace pm me immediately and do not make any reference to replacing in the thread and stop posting. I really don't want to use replacements in my game ever please do not sign up if you don't have the patience or time to play
For a 9 player game (or any imo, but especially a 9 player) potentially replacing someone after the day 3 lynch isn't really acceptable, it's too late. I'd ask you to reconsider this timeframe
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I don't know how to meta any of you really
Curses
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there's no hype.
there is only anti-hype for tardy starting.
ANTI-HYPE.
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l2read
On October 01 2013 05:50 marvellosity wrote:
there's no hype.
there is only anti-hype for tardy starting.
ANTI-HYPE.
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On October 02 2013 00:53 Risen wrote:
I can't wait for this game to start so I can actually try and have fun in a mafia game. Look at that player list.
Edit: But uhh... totally not hype. No hype at all.
Good boy <3
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I'm gonna lynch all of you.
ANTI-HYPE
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Hmm. your newbie game suggests you're going to be unbearable. Policy lynch? :D
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On October 02 2013 05:46 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 05:25 marvellosity wrote:
Hmm. your newbie game suggests you're going to be unbearable. Policy lynch? :D Those words have no meaning on TL, marv, you know that.
I relied on that, I don't want to be mean after all.
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It bugs me intensely that iamp capitalises his name differently in flavour than he does in his own name.
Also, rejoice! etc.
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Not doing anything funny at all. No random lynches or policy lynches, even on Holyflare. Straight up.
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On October 02 2013 15:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 15:20 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 15:14 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 15:10 Blazinghand wrote:
Seriously though if the reason I've given for lynching him are normal oats behavior then that's like a policy lynch reason right there. We should do it, it would be awesome. I know you like your game theory, and technically we have a 2/7 chance (since doc will claim), but the information we get off of people agreeing to a random lynch isn't that telling I don't think. Rather just spark discussion as usual and see what happens. Despite,(according to database numbers) a random lynch being slightly more effective, if it hits town it probably gets less information than if there are a couple of lynch candidates and they are discussed and votes are moved around. That's a reasonable thing to say. That being said, the RNG led (and in general it seems, leads) to a good discussion. I don't think things would have played out as they did unless I RNGed this game, and I'm glad I did. That's fine and I think we have some information that came out of it rather than lurker lynch policy talk which is a dead horse. But do you plan on hanging on to your rng lynch today unless someone becomes obvious scum? Or do you feel that oats is no longer a random lynch now and you think he's most likely to flip scum at this time, and if that changes you'll change your vote?
What info in particular do you think was gained?
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On October 02 2013 18:37 Holyflare wrote:
slOosh at least started asking questions when he initially joined into the discussion although has not really contributed since then at least he read up to date or so it seems. He's not too into meta but is alright saying that oats' play is just like his meta view of him though which was a little odd. Need to hear more on that side of things.
I like this observation :>
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##Vote: Dirkzor
Not even read his post voting Holyflare, but I don't really think he should be voting HF right now as his entrance into the thread.
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Ok now I read it. He provides two quotes as contextual evidence for his non-read on Oats, and none with his scumread on Holyflare. Seems like my vote is quite good.
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I explained why I voted.
Your question is silly.
"yes, I was terrified someone might vote him before me, that's absolutely why I voted him like that"
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HF has tried harder than most other people in the game and at the very least has been active and the centre of attention. He felt quite town reading through to me.
A vote on him feels pretty opportunistic coming in to the thread when you did.
Especially with the line "and he hasn't really done anything" - that's a bit rich.
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That's totally different reasoning to the reasoning you used last page.
At least you've taken to providing contextual evidence to your scumread instead of your null read now. Yay!
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Don't really have any. Annoying.
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On October 02 2013 19:15 Dirkzor wrote:
Not different reasoning. He hasn't done anything. I said the in the first post and I stand by that. Add that to supporting rng "because BH said so" and him walking around BH's shadow is a great reason for me to vote him. I still dont get how it can be opportunistic? Had it been oppurtinistic if I had voted someone else or is it onle because it was HF?
Why can't a townie do this?
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Could you also tell me how he's been walking around in BH's shadow, apart from agreeing with the original RNG lynch proposal?
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On October 02 2013 18:47 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 18:37 Holyflare wrote:
slOosh at least started asking questions when he initially joined into the discussion although has not really contributed since then at least he read up to date or so it seems. He's not too into meta but is alright saying that oats' play is just like his meta view of him though which was a little odd. Need to hear more on that side of things.
I like this observation :>
Btw, Dirk, this part of a post alone that Holy made is probably more interesting content than has been produced by most of the thread.
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So you voted a scumread based on evidence that didn't exist? Your claim was effectively that he was sheeping BH and unoriginal, and now having "checked" his filter, he is in fact not sheeping BH and original after all.
Smelly.
And for some reason your use of ellipses in both posts where you talk about Oats is really... well, noticeable to me. Not sure how fair it is to hold that against you though.
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That's fine, but when you vote on "feels" with blatant disregard to the facts (known in some circles as lying) then, well, I'm not convinced my vote is in the wrong place.
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I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote?
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Holyflare had come under a certain amount of flak this game, and he is a newbie.
As such it's a pretty convenient place to park your vote. An easy vote.
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thanks for telling me what happened in the game i've already read.
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Your pointless quibbling is always much appreciated.
I didn't say an easy lynch to push, I said an easy place to put your vote.
Cmon boy.
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I'd feel very neutral about it.
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No massive leans either way, otherwise i'd have told you willingly already, my dear.
The day is yet young.
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It's a 9 player game, people will come and post in patches, it's a different pace.
Don't worry, us southerners mostly can't understand what they're banging on about in the north either, it's not you.
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On October 02 2013 22:00 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote? Truth is important. I was wrong I admit that. But I don't always go back and re-read just to be sure right before posting. I read the thread and was I got from it was that HF had sheeped BH so i wrote that. That turned out to be wrong after more careful scrutiny. Worse then that it puts me back as for as reads go. I don't understand why he is an easy place to put my vote. It would have been so much easier just to vote rayn if I wanted to do that.
The problem is, it had a vote attached to it. Which shows you don't actually value your vote at all. If you don't check that you're right when you are voting to lynch someone, what use is it? Anyway, you carry on doing your thang throughout the day. I'm not like totes certain you're mafia or anything, but none of your answers have made me think "uh, maybe I was wrong"
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Maybe. Or maybe you're scum.
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On October 02 2013 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hey marv what do you think of BH?
Dirkzor, why havent you voted for someone else yet?
On October 02 2013 21:53 marvellosity wrote:
No massive leans either way, otherwise i'd have told you willingly already, my dear.
The day is yet young.
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On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh...
You wouldn't know you were drawing attention to yourself until someone picked up on it though.
Let's move on a little. What do you make of my push on you? Does it feel warranted and townie-motivated? If not, why not?
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I'd also like to know why Oats has unvoted after being convinced before.
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On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
##vote Dirkzor
also sheeping marv is cool.
I'd like to know what it is you read that changed your mind.
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On October 02 2013 23:11 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 23:09 Clarity_nl wrote:
If that were the case I'd have about 5 scumreads DO YOU? Man talk to me Clarity, Why isnt your vote on a dude and why arent you doing anything about it?
why don't you try reading the thread?
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On October 03 2013 00:02 slOosh wrote:
Scum marv would call scumbuddy HF scum?
Scum-marv would deflect like a baws
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I said he "felt quite town"
Let's not be exaggerating now
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On October 03 2013 00:16 slOosh wrote:
I still think Risen is lame, but he hasn't posted yet.
As for Dirkzor ... I'm leaning town on him. The thing reads like he came into thread while still developing thoughts, got called out and is all frazzled out for it. I disagree that voting HF is the easy way to go, because at the time three people (me then BH then clarity) had given town reads on him.
Scum willingly voting HF after seeing three people give town reads means that they are ready to engage attention. So I don't think it was an easy "park my vote move along".
You will admit, though, he's all but admitted his vote is worthless.
There's quite the difference between "developing thoughts" and "voting someone based on bs"
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Clarity loves to sheep me when he's town. Tried and tested.
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Did slOosh really do the shoot n scoot thing? Bad slOosh.
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On October 03 2013 00:16 slOosh wrote:
I still think Risen is lame, but he hasn't posted yet.
As for Dirkzor ... I'm leaning town on him. The thing reads like he came into thread while still developing thoughts, got called out and is all frazzled out for it. I disagree that voting HF is the easy way to go, because at the time three people (me then BH then clarity) had given town reads on him.
Scum willingly voting HF after seeing three people give town reads means that they are ready to engage attention. So I don't think it was an easy "park my vote move along".
It's twice you've mentioned this now without any furthe explanation.
Makes marv a sad little whore.
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On October 03 2013 02:01 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 00:16 slOosh wrote:
I still think Risen is lame, but he hasn't posted yet.
As for Dirkzor ... I'm leaning town on him. The thing reads like he came into thread while still developing thoughts, got called out and is all frazzled out for it. I disagree that voting HF is the easy way to go, because at the time three people (me then BH then clarity) had given town reads on him.
Scum willingly voting HF after seeing three people give town reads means that they are ready to engage attention. So I don't think it was an easy "park my vote move along". You will admit, though, he's all but admitted his vote is worthless. There's quite the difference between "developing thoughts" and "voting someone based on bs" I don't see where he has admitted his vote is worthless. Poorly placed, yea, but nowhere worthless.
If you're voting with blatant disregard for the facts, and you feel like placing a vote without checking your facts first is a good policy, then you render your own vote worthless.
And you've still not said anything on why you find Risen suspicious.
I find that pretty suspicious. You are suspicious.
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Clarity, maybe you were derping with the townread on slOosh, but what caused you to have it anyway? There must have been reasoning behind it.
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On October 03 2013 05:01 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm betting he has a null~town read on me.
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So, rayn, what are you doing?
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It's not like you for me to not understand where you're going and have to prod you, dear.
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On October 03 2013 05:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 05:17 marvellosity wrote:
It's not like you for me to not understand where you're going and have to prod you, dear. what does this mean?
It means normally I know exactly what you're doing and what you're pursuing at any one moment in time. The BH/Oats thing just seems/seemed to be... hanging there.
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BH, are you still set on this Oats thing?
No comment to make on slOosh, Dirk, whoever?
Oats is an interesting case. Him asking me if I'm scum seems out of place (I'm aware he asks people that all the time) because there was very little reason for him to do so at the time - evidently he agreed with me about Dirkzor and was willing to sheep me on the vote, and yet also asks me if I'm scum?
How do those two things go together?
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Btw, Risen, your case on Clarity is riddled with confirmation bias.
Any good points you may have had (I picked up on the slOosh townread thing) are kinda lost in between all the points that clearly aren't actually points.
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On October 03 2013 05:41 Risen wrote:
And so the cycle continues where I accuse someone of being scum and they're immune to lynch.
In all seriousness, just listen to what I said without getting defensive about it. If I'm reading your case and I'm dismissing 80% of it as non-alignment indicative, then the 20% that remains gets hidden in between the mess that's the rest of it.
Less than halfway into Day 1 there's going to be, at most, two or three succinct points why someone could be mafia. Not PBPing their entire filter.
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Like if you're town, Risen, I want to play *with* you, not you get grumpy because people don't like your case.
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On October 03 2013 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
Btw, Risen, your case on Clarity is riddled with confirmation bias.
Any good points you may have had (I picked up on the slOosh townread thing) are kinda lost in between all the points that clearly aren't actually points. Can you explain this? As in, it's just something you noticed or it's something you found scummy?
It was weird, but i think your explanation for it was fine.
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On October 03 2013 05:28 marvellosity wrote:
BH, are you still set on this Oats thing?
No comment to make on slOosh, Dirk, whoever?
Oats is an interesting case. Him asking me if I'm scum seems out of place (I'm aware he asks people that all the time) because there was very little reason for him to do so at the time - evidently he agreed with me about Dirkzor and was willing to sheep me on the vote, and yet also asks me if I'm scum?
How do those two things go together?
Opinions on this, slOosh?
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he asks me if i'm scum. read it.
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and i explained why it's out of place :/
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do you normally ask someone if they're mafia when you're sheeping their case?
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On October 03 2013 08:14 marvellosity wrote:
do you normally ask someone if they're mafia when you're sheeping their case?
even oats doesn't do this normally.
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alrighty. ty for your input ^^ expecting that Risen shizzle from you though :>
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On October 03 2013 17:16 Dirkzor wrote:
Right now i would want to lynch Rayn or Sloosh.
then vote for one of them
why is this complicated?
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I'm gonna do a list of likes and dislikes when I get into work. Stay tuned.
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yes because I kinda want to lynch you.
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Anyways.
Things I like:
- BH in general, his long post, what he said about rayn. Generally agree
- slOosh thinking and talking about a lot of the game
- Dirzkor pointing out slOosh's weird Clarity shift
- my toned, athletic body
Things I dislike:
- Holyflare's absence after a busy start
- Risen's afk from the thread after making his case, refusing to discuss it with anyone, despite the fact he was around to post in Noir obsQT last night. Terrible.
- slOosh's weird stance on Clarity
- rayn being a non-entity
- Oats not really have his own suspicions
##unvote
Thing with Dirk is. Maybe slOosh is right and he's being consistent. His answers don't feel forced. I dunno. This might be one of those occasions where I've mercilessly trapped a townie. I really just wish he'd just put his hands up and said "I fucked up" right at the start, because it looks like he wiggled about it a bit much for my liking. But meh.
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I've not sheeped you once, you weirdo.
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On October 03 2013 18:39 Clarity_nl wrote:
Man this sheeping me thing sure is working out for you, eh marv?
I dunno about Risen.
Confirmation bias cases is kind of what he does as town. I haven't seen him play scum though.
His "woe is me, does thou not listen to reason?" and then leaving.... I can see that coming from town Risen OR scum Risen.
Because yes, the last couple of games risen goes for a weird target and ends up being talked down to because of it.
Yes, he decided I was scum and then made a case, but townies do that too. I'm not comfortable lynching him today.
I could lynch rayn I guess but that would basically be a policy lynch, and I think after game of thrones I have learned my lesson and can figure him out in later cycles.
Sloosh, are you around? I'd like you to explain how you feel good about my lynch?
Also explain how my "waffle" on BH is scummy, please.
The problem with this whole post is that it lists people you don't want to lynch, but doesn't really offer people you do want to lynch.
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I think slOosh looks quite decent actually, right up until his final conclusion on you.
Don't you agree?
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Or rather if you don't agree, could you tell me why not?
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On October 03 2013 18:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Not really, no. I really disliked the way he entered the thread.
His early townread on dirk still confuses me. Only just now after he's still derping with his vote do I begin to believe he's being lynchbait.
Like, he got lectured on his vote being important and it should have weight behind it, and then he goes and says the guy hes voting for is not a good lynch. That's not scum play.... probably.
I was more talking about slOosh's recent batch of posting which seems more interactive. You're talking about his initial burst, which I agree was kinda weak.
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##Vote Oats
Gonna kill you if you can't produce the goods.
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On October 03 2013 18:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well Risen is scum mainly for not explaining his unvote on Holyflare, also his opportunistic push on Clarity after somebody raised concerns.
It feels like for me he is going from one target to the next. Like, Hey Holyflare looks scummy lets push him. Then oh man cant lynch, ok Clarity looks ok.
Yeah.
Sorry, why is going after more than one target scummy?
Also who was it that raised concerns about Clarity before Risen?
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On October 03 2013 18:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm not seeing what you're seeing regarding sloosh. His convo with you was kinda forced on him by you.
He made a comment on BH saying that I was on his dick...?
Actually you may be right. Don't like it so much on a second read-through of his filter as I did reading it in real-time.
The stuff that makes up his case on you doesn't chime with me at all. I say that sort of stuff that he's picking up on ALL THE TIME as town. Especially on day 1.
slOosh you really need to explain.
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On October 03 2013 19:03 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 18:57 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 18:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well Risen is scum mainly for not explaining his unvote on Holyflare, also his opportunistic push on Clarity after somebody raised concerns.
It feels like for me he is going from one target to the next. Like, Hey Holyflare looks scummy lets push him. Then oh man cant lynch, ok Clarity looks ok.
Yeah. Sorry, why is going after more than one target scummy? Also who was it that raised concerns about Clarity before Risen? Its that he went after only 1 target at a time. Like the mindset isnt finding scum, its trying to look good. I dont remember, but possibly sloosh.
If you don't remember, go and find out.
It wasn't slOosh, I've just been in his filter.
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On October 03 2013 19:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
huh ok Risen was the first to say that Clarity was scummy.
Not sure how you guys think that it affects my read on him.
Because there are two points in your case against him.
"the way he makes his cases" and "opportunistic push on Clarity after someone else mentioned it"
one is totally untrue.
Why *wouldnt* it affect your read on him?? Half of your read is bollocks.
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I win this time Clarity <3
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On October 03 2013 19:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its not opportunistic.
Its still bad.
Why is it bad?
And if it's bad, why is bad = scummy?
Oats, you need to not just SAY things, you need to explain things, or you're completely worthless.
Atm it sounds like you're clinging to a false read.
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Indeed, it sounds like you're doing what you're voting Dirkzor for.
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(I expect to be answered)
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Alright
Don't you find, usually, that townies have totally rank confirmation bias like this?
Normally mafia aren't so ... blatant.
Yes/no?
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Dirzkor still scummier than Risen though?
Do you like what he pointed about slOosh's thing about Clarity? How do you feel about what slOosh wrote about Clarity compared to what Risen did?
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Who's "people"? Check out why I unvoted him, it wasn't that.
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On October 03 2013 19:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
oh lol.
I just saw sloosh indirectly defend clarity then 2 posts later vote for him off like 2 posts of wiffle-waffle?
Man even I dont 180 that fast.
Especially since those posts dont contain Wiffle-waffle. In fact, if Clarity votes for BH today or tmr, barring a 'scumslip' then I will be incredibly surprised.
Sloosh needs to explain his clarity vote.
I'm curious how you missed this at the time, and the subsequent 10 times it's been mentioned in the thread? 
Just to recap then - who are your suspicions? Dirkzor still scummiest, or?
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lol ok.
One last thing - how do you feel about me, given my vote is on you right at this moment?
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On October 03 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 19:44 marvellosity wrote:
lol ok.
One last thing - how do you feel about me, given my vote is on you right at this moment? I feel that you are still really null. But considering you know exactly how I played in Golden Sun, that vote was a bit weird. Im thinking it was a pressure vote so yeah Leaning town for now. Depends. If we lynch scum, then you probably are town, if we dont lynch scum today then you are more likely to be scum.
Why is this? How often have I been in a town that's lynched mafia Day 1 in the last 6 months?
Feels a bit setup-y, Oats my boy.
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On October 03 2013 19:47 Dirkzor wrote:
Why was/is sloosh so sure I'm town? I'm having a hard time to figure this out. His reasoning and the way he see my timeline fit rather good with reality, but why did he come to that conclusion when no one else did/have? I know I'm town, but I also know that my first post wasn't stellar... Why was he defending me?
Maybe it only looks weird to me since I know my alignment is town, but it looks preemptive if I was lynched.
Anyone agree?
Yeah it is kinda interesting. Need to give it some thought.
also ##Unvote
Oats' answers have been reasonably satisfying to me. Well, as satisfying as Oats answers can really be.
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Your faith is touching, Oats.
Sadly in Hero Mafia one of my scumbuddies did indeed get lynched Day 1. Not that that stopped me winning obviously.
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for once, Oats, I actually find something you wrote convincing. mainly because of the quotes in your post.
On October 02 2013 19:10 Dirkzor wrote:Yes he have been posting, but when I read it I don't really see any meat. Might just be me but that's how I see it. Some of his posts seems to be just for the sake of posting. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 12:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players.
except that we have 48 hours to find scum and its only 2/9 chance that we get scum. And probably another 4/9 that we hit an obvious townie that is obvious town after 48 hours. Now its not so useful is it? Do you even read what is posted? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:18 Blazinghand wrote:
Also to all the RNG doubters: RNG has a 2/7 chance of hitting scum today! Not 2/9 as you might think. Why is that?
Well, first off, I'm talking to people who aren't Oats and are town. You personally know that of the 8 non-you players, 2 are scum. So you'd think it would be a 2/8 chance of an RNG hitting scum. Pretty lame right? WRONG. If the RNG is on the doctor and the lynch starts to gather steam, he'll surely claim. This means that the doctor isn't even in the lynch pool, and we can roll again for a new RNG. this means we can discount one town player from our odds, meaning that you have a 2/7 (over 30%!) chance of lynching scum with RNG! On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? it feels clinicly clean. Don't know how to describe it really... it like trying to get rotten wood look fresh on the surface.
On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote:
Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found...
On October 02 2013 20:56 Dirkzor wrote:
There is no physical evidence because it was a "I feel like this" vote. Same with Oats basicly. If I look at the posts and the way he have been acting I can see why people think he might be scum, but the feeling I got was somewhat townie. And that confuse me. After going back to prove my feeling there was nothing there and my feeling changed somewhat.
Since I don't have much to work with so early on it is mostly how I feel. That probably sounds weird but thats how my head works.
And don't hold the ellipses agaisnt me. I assure you that it is random. I used to do it a lot but I'm trying to stop when there is no particular need. I am not very good at that yet.
Three quotes.
1) He read his filter. Indeed there are quotes from his filter
2) He went back to read his filter, and didn't find what he wrote
3) There's no evidence from the filter (even though there was in 1) because it was a 'feel' vote.
On October 03 2013 15:46 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else? I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence.. And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though.
But in 1) he read his filter? How do you read someone's filter and come away with only 'feels' and untrue evidence?
I thought I could get over this but I'm not sure I can :/
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On October 03 2013 20:51 Dirkzor wrote:
I am at work now so this will be fast.
I never did a 180. I still think some of his post are more for show then for real scumhunting (like the post I linked that you quoted). What changed was my belief of him being unoriginal and sheeping BH.
The 2nd post you are quoting are during the process of comparing..
I presume this is in reply to Oats' post. What comparing are you talking about exactly?
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I need to have one more back and forth with Dirkzor before I make any sort of decision on him. Curious what he meant in the question I just asked him.
rayn is sexy because he has me as towniest which is evidently correct.
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I honestly don't know how i get away with playing scum, it seems really obvious to me when i'm town.
And yes, i'm aware of how dumb that sounds, but i still believe it ;p
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On October 03 2013 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Could you still tell me what do you think of BH? Because what i see is that "everyone looks bad except for marv".
Even though his case is on you, I like this post anyways. It's essentially correct, and you being useless is/was immensely concerning.
I'm not entirely sure how to get a solid read on BH on day 1 (despite him being legendarily "bad" at scum), but I associate scumBH with picking a target and going at it like a bull. He seems open to rethinking about things so far in this game which I think I associate with towniness for him.
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No, I find Risen's afk pretty concerning.
If he'd stuck around to argue his corner some, I'd have found his massive confirmation bias townie; as it is, I don't.
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It never fails to amaze me why townies can't just say what they mean and explain it appropriately.
Mafia would be so much easier. And it's such a basic thing.
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On October 03 2013 21:24 Clarity_nl wrote:
....and scum don't?
Do you think rayn is scum for not wanting to lynch you?
Or are you saying people who push you are town and people who have a townread on you are town?
Like... c'mon
This isn't the only game he's said this. He's also said it to me in irc.
Like, it's retarded, but he actually believes it.
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On October 03 2013 21:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its also true.
Seriously.
Scum never try to seriously mislynch townoats.
I caused your mislynch day 2 in desert.
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by the way - scum don't have to, because you play so terribly that town do the job for them.
you should probably think about that a little.
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On October 03 2013 21:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
yeah I dont mean townies always want to lynch me, I mean ONLY townies want to lynch Townoats
i was mafia
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On October 03 2013 21:29 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:27 marvellosity wrote:
by the way - scum don't have to, because you play so terribly that town do the job for them.
you should probably think about that a little. Cheap shot man, this has nothing to do with what im talking about.
It's not a cheap shot, it's true. You're always a possible mislynch and mafia don't have to push you because you're scummy enough that town will push you on their behalf. That's just fact.
rayn, my dear. I think we both know that a decent way of reading your alignment is how you go after your targets and how confrontational and aggressive you are. Even if I take your busyness claim at face value, how do you imagine I or other people in the game go about getting a townread on you, should you be town?
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You said it yourself rayn - in minis (and by gad this is a mini) you like to get your reads by getting in people's faces and interacting with people. Yet there's been very little of that this game.
DoyouseewhatI'msaying?
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On October 03 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Afaik Risen has some "best mafia play award", correct?
Does anyone know from which game was that?
TL Mafia "Area" LIII
He did a last minute, superscummy voteswitch from one townie to another, and got away with it. I was in that game T.T
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You're stuck in the hole I'm stuck in, rayn, in that your mafia play is very accomplished.
So when you don't exhibit things I expect from town-rayn, I worry.
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Dirkzor, Risen, Sloosh, Rayn and Oats (clarity has been mentioned too) should be eliminated 1 by 1 in terms of rating of their overall posting to determine who is the optimal lynch for day 1 and ultimately who will be most useful in an endgame lylo scenario.
Possibly the worst reason for determining a lynch I ever heard in my life.
Now I'll read the actual content of your post.
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On October 03 2013 21:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok HF is like confirmed town. Cool shit.
Rayn, it is a random lynch.
No it's not. It is not. If you know the target before you say if you agree/not with a random lynch it's no more a random lynch.
I was about to tell you you're being silly, then I suddenly understood what you meant. The fact that I was confused for a moment suggests to me that there isn't that much to be made of the point, though.
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Play nice, Holyflare, or I'll have to spank you.
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On October 03 2013 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:49 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 21:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok HF is like confirmed town. Cool shit.
Rayn, it is a random lynch.
No it's not. It is not. If you know the target before you say if you agree/not with a random lynch it's no more a random lynch. I was about to tell you you're being silly, then I suddenly understood what you meant. The fact that I was confused for a moment suggests to me that there isn't that much to be made of the point, though. Now do you think Blazinghand is stupid enough to not know this in the first place? As he proposed the shit.
I don't think that much of it. It *is* a conversation starter, and what was the agenda? Random lynches never go through.
Generally I find random lynch stuff really null, because I never really get any decent reads out of either the proposer or the followers.
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On October 03 2013 21:55 Holyflare wrote:
Anyway, enough with this crap. What do you guys think of my points and specifically Sloosh? Is he the most scumlike based on his overly defensive nature on people? Or are you still thinking on a Dirkzor vote?
Honestly I'm waiting on answers for them both.
When I re-read slOosh's filter earlier I don't know how I came to the conclusion at the time of posting that his posting felt townie, because it didn't really.
Other than what was said, I don't like at all how he left the Risen situation open-ended and left me/others to comment on it.
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On October 03 2013 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:53 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:49 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 21:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok HF is like confirmed town. Cool shit.
Rayn, it is a random lynch.
No it's not. It is not. If you know the target before you say if you agree/not with a random lynch it's no more a random lynch. I was about to tell you you're being silly, then I suddenly understood what you meant. The fact that I was confused for a moment suggests to me that there isn't that much to be made of the point, though. Now do you think Blazinghand is stupid enough to not know this in the first place? As he proposed the shit. I don't think that much of it. It *is* a conversation starter, and what was the agenda? Random lynches never go through. Generally I find random lynch stuff really null, because I never really get any decent reads out of either the proposer or the followers. You know, to me it did not look like a conversation starter. BH never said it was, at least before someone else (Clarity) said so. To me it looked more like "let's gun for Oats as he was randomed" and then BH developed a shit read on Oats.
Same difference imo.
A game I have in mind while thinking about this is Rockband. BH effectively fabricated a case on prplhz right out the gate, together with weird meta arguments, and it was all ridiculously much. It got the game going (even though the case was a total stretch) and BH was town.
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rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand.
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On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand. Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do.
Maybe, but you still showed absolutely no issue with Holy's previous posting before this, and now suddenly it's a massive issue.
I'm not understanding the two together.
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On October 03 2013 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:04 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand. Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do. Maybe, but you still showed absolutely no issue with Holy's previous posting before this, and now suddenly it's a massive issue. I'm not understanding the two together. Did you even read my post when i got here today? I explain my issues with HF in that post, which is exactly what i am talking about now..
I did, but maybe I'm being stupid and forgetting. I'll check. My apologies if so.
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Hmm. meh. I only semi-retract, still seems odd. Maybe it's just rayn-odd though. Carry on I guess?
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Dirk, I think my biggest issue is that you say
his filter feels clinically clean
then later repeatedly say that it was just a feel post. How can it just be feel if you'd been spending time in his filter? arrrrrrg.
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This game is hard. I really want to lynch mafia today :/
Dirk thing is tearing me apart because it all reads as so fucking scummy and twisty, but at the same time I "believe" what he's telling me. It's actually infuriating.
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##Vote: slOosh
That's where I'm at right now.
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On October 03 2013 22:54 Dirkzor wrote:
Ok I read everything. Need to get back to work.
At first glance HF big post is just that. Big. He talks about 5 people.
Oats: who he was voting for, but now find him less scummy for reason I really didn't understand. Oats pulling the case on me back can be a good move for both scum and town.
Then there is me and Risen. Both of whom are scummy but not lynch worthy.
Sloosh and Rayn however are is top lynch choices. Other then that he really just recaps what have been happening during day 1.
This post appears to be missing a conclusion.
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rayn, just to clarify - you think Holyflare is mafia because
1) at the time that Oats unvoted, Holyflare thought it was a crock of shit
2) later on, Holyflare said he liked the fact that Oats unvoted?
That's the meat of it, right?
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Will you talk about that stuff with me, Holy?
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Holy, I'm finding the whole discussion between you and rayn exceedingly difficult to follow. Talk to me like I'm a babe in the woods.
On October 03 2013 23:16 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, just to clarify - you think Holyflare is mafia because
1) at the time that Oats unvoted, Holyflare thought it was a crock of shit
2) later on, Holyflare said he liked the fact that Oats unvoted?
That's the meat of it, right?
Can you explain to me really simply why what I've written here is untrue? Like, succintly in a couple of sentences. That way I can try to grasp what's going on and read what you've written better.
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Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what?
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What's meta got to do with it?
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On October 04 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what? Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY! and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc.
Does this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#297 - not suggest you thought his unvote was bad? What am I missing?
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On October 04 2013 00:25 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:20 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote:On October 04 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, why is what i posted up there wrong? I need you just to clear it up for me.
You seemed to think his unvote post at the time was bad, later you thought it was ok? is that not the case or what? Where did I say his unvote was bad, I've checked my filter but can't really see it. Either way, upon rereading ouats I saw things like On October 02 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
I read/detunneled.
On October 02 2013 22:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why am I scummy clarity? Contradiction. What? Marv, I liked his posts after I left, and thought from the perspective of not a cynical old fart and thought that HF is probably town. However, if he doesnt convince people to vote for me or convince dudes to vote for someone else, then THE PRESSURE IS ON BABY! and was like - oh, he's actually willing to pay attention now, and he was right about the pressuring people etc. Does this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=15#297 - not suggest you thought his unvote was bad? What am I missing? I only ask why sloosh liked his reasoning?
I think you're being kinda obtuse because it's obvious what part of the post I'm referring to.
"I don't like this one bit, especially coupled with *unvote post*"
As in you said "I don't like this" and followed that with his unvote post. I don't know why this is so hard 
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Right, so the thing you didn't like was the random sheep on to Dirkzor, ya?
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On October 04 2013 00:29 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
Right, so the thing you didn't like was the random sheep on to Dirkzor, ya? yes, especially as he pointed out clarity for sheeping
Alright bingo! Can you see why I was having difficulties? lol. That makes sense.
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Alright. I think HF is a dopey lynch.
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rayn, I think whatever you've found, you haven't found.
The reason I was struggling so much with HF is that I generally found him reasonably townie, but I thought what you pointed out had merit. All his explanations make sense to me now though and he's stuck around and defended himself and pushed his ideas.
Added to this, the fact that in some ways he didn't "get" the suspicions to me is a bit of a towntell.
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I don't think rayn is a good lynch today. While I don't like his absence for the first part of the day, or the way he kinda floated around the thread while he was here, his push on Holyflare feels like a town-rayn thing.
I don't know how to explain that very well, but basically he hammered away at Holyflare continuously before he came to his conclusion. I rather feel that if he were mafia, he'd have jumped to the conclusion much quicker without all the questioning.
I'm not totally sure by all of this, but i think it's enough that i don't want to touch rayn today.
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On October 04 2013 00:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I like this marv guy, he can stay.
You gonna stop being peripheral, babe?
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On October 04 2013 00:54 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:50 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think rayn is a good lynch today. While I don't like his absence for the first part of the day, or the way he kinda floated around the thread while he was here, his push on Holyflare feels like a town-rayn thing.
I don't know how to explain that very well, but basically he hammered away at Holyflare continuously before he came to his conclusion. I rather feel that if he were mafia, he'd have jumped to the conclusion much quicker without all the questioning.
I'm not totally sure by all of this, but i think it's enough that i don't want to touch rayn today. If not him then who? and why? (I know where your vote is, but answer anyway)
..............
I agree with HF's "clairvoyance" type point.
Also dislike how he's gone about Risen.
Also dislike how his Clarity vote materialised.
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I'm suspicious of Risen for totally opting out of participating in the thread when I left the door completely open to talk about things. I hate that.
Dirk I'm kinda la-la-la-ing and hoping he's town for now. At least partly because I think slOosh is a good lynch, so I don't have to worry about Dirk so much right now.
Clarity's kinda useless and kinda useful, but he thinks the same as me at like ten different points, so I'm gonna guess town.
rayn/BH I really dunno but I don't wanna lynch them
HF stood his ground, lots of effort, seems townie.
Oats seems townie after I grilled him, not sure about this but I think so.
marv is a total babe.
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On October 04 2013 01:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Can you comment on what i said about Dirk? Clarity/marv/BH? Show nested quote +When Dirkzor contributes, his contributions are bad. He gets called out of them, and he needs to be "helped" in which direction to look for in what he is saying. Basically he has been given the "correct answers" for the questions he has been asked, and only after that he says something that pleases people. His "own, genuine contributions" are full of shit, and that's why i think he is scum.
Thing is, I checked out his last couple mafia games earlier? maybe yesterday? and he seemed really aggressive and forthright in both of them.
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I played in Dirk's last towngame.
I don't really know what to tell you; given I was the one who fucking nailed Dirk to the wall for what he did, then yeah, whatever. I can't describe my doubts very elegantly, I just feel much more confident in a slOosh lynch right now.
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My mafia memory in general is pretty phenomenal.
I find your play very hard to get a handle on this game, because it's been totally warped by the original Holyflare thing. Which skews perceptions - I can't tell if you're mafia talking your way out of a hole, or town who made a silly mistake.
Reminds me of Dwarf Fortress mafia where town pursued forumite like a hound all day for a mistake he made at the start, and he flipped town.
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On October 04 2013 01:17 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:16 Blazinghand wrote:
I guess I'm happier with this new more active Rayn and would be okay letting him live for a day since we need to get together into a majority in the next ~8 hours or we no-lynch. I can't really justify lynching him, even if he's pretty damn scummy, over Oats when I'll be able to get a more solid read on Rayn over time (if he's scum he'll screw up). Then again, Oats doesn't seem to be happening either. fack. Could you condense your read on oats for us? Rather than going "welp my lynch aint happening, bummer"
Agreed with this. If you're really convinced Oats is the best lynch, then argue coherently for it.
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On October 04 2013 01:20 Blazinghand wrote:Man, I kinda like this sloosh lynch. I do see what's being said about him changing his mind between here (link) and here (link) and why that's a bit suspicious. I will say that there are a couple mitigating factors. 1, he initially was reacting to a case and said it wasn't too compelling. Risen's case didn't directly address the point that sloosh brought up later, so it's possible sloosh was a lazy ass and didn't actually read clarity's filter. 2, there's an in-between post that actually imo makes this ok: it looks to be like slOosh may have been changing his mind on clarity then, at 11 (at 10, he was null or town on clarity. at 12 he voted clarity). Perhaps he was rereading the filter, and the thing popped out at him, so he popped into the thread to ask me a question. I find this a reasonable explanation of sloosh's actions.
It is a reasonable explanation, I agree - but it's also weak if that's the case. I don't really associate slOosh with weak play.
I've kinda always been a slOosh fanboy though, because his style is generally the opposite of mine
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I'm super-curious how BH is gonna justify the Risen lynch when he defended the slOosh lynch on meta.
Best include Risen's recent town meta too.
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yeah he did that in Noir, BH
what of it?
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Further, why aren't you using meta in your case on someone, when you keep defending people with meta?
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Like, this is how it goes.
1) slOosh is scummy, but he also did this scummy shit as town
2) Risen is scummy, but I don't care that he did this scummy shit as town
That's a fair representation, is it not?
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I don't make mistakes, fool.
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On October 04 2013 01:43 Blazinghand wrote:
also where the hell has risen been anyways
this is indeed a question.
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I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
I feel good about the slOosh vote because both rayn and BH had slOosh as scummy but not the scummiest. When I'm not sure, I like that as a place to look ^_^
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On October 04 2013 01:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oh fuck you marv.. I'll give you my vote now. Tell me who to vote.
Hey, I'm being upfront about it, I could have just giggled to myself about it.
Why are you asking me who to vote? You know who my vote is on.
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Everyone just vote slOosh and blame me when it goes wrong because I'm never getting lynched anyway.
Actually no, that doesn't solve the game.
We do need a majority though.
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On October 04 2013 02:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
We dont need you anyway.
Also how Marv is unwilling to put his vote on Dirkzor is how I imagine scum marv would avoid lynching a teammate but still have him be scummy.
This is a very stupid post. I wouldn't have gone balls after Dirk if he was my scum-mate.
If there's anything that's obvious in this game, it's that.
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Doesn't make the post any less stupid.
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Stupidity is always concerning, it's why I'm always shouting at you.
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yes, because it was really stupid
I get the feeling I'm repeating myself.
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On October 04 2013 02:45 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 02:44 marvellosity wrote:
Stupidity is always concerning, it's why I'm always shouting at you. How is it stupid if its not possible?
I don't even...
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Because it was stupid.
Pretty sure I already said that.
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I don't want to discuss it at all. I'm just telling you you're stupid.
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It feels like I'm playing soccer with someone paralysed from the waist down.
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The fact you don't understand why it's stupid is why you're so stupid, oats.
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How have I failed to scumhunt? I've literally produced more content than anyone else in the game. My vote is on who I think is most likely to be mafia.
A couple of hours ago I explained my stance on everyone in the game.
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Oats, go to bed. You're unbelievably irritating.
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On October 04 2013 02:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
Besides that it just seemed odd for the guy that was so opinionated coming out of nowhere throwing out accusations and then voting aggressively to then want to sheep a vote This is in regards to rayn by the way, what do you guys think about that?
I'm not really sure. It's a weird one. It's something that rayn can do as either alignment I think. He's kinda capricious like that
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Whatever your point is, it's shit.
Go away.
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Risen is such a poohead it basically makes me want to do the opposite of whatever he says.
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Having said that, I'm pretty interested to hear the case.
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Not sure if I can even be bothered to read that case.
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slOosh, we really just need to know what your current reads and shit are.
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yeah I'm just not reading Risen's case. It's a waste of my time.
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Risen could actually be mafia for that case.
It's just so dumb. I told him earlier that a case like that is going to convince nobody, and he does exactly the same thing on another player?
what the fuck is that shit?
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I could take anyone's filter in the game (probably including my own) and make some ridiculous narrative out of it. It's just awful.
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Why don't you tell me what the good points were, that sounds like more fun. I did in fact skim it and I kinda vommed inside my mouth while doing so, so I'd rather avoid the experience a 2nd time.
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I don't understand why he'd make that sort of case when I said pretty clearly how unconvincing that kind of case was last time.
It's like he actually wants to be ignored.
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Alright, I read the 2nd half of the case.
The thing that is not valid: Risen says that rayn is willing to vote his townread (Risen himself). This is pretty clearly not true given the posts quoted
The thing that is valid: that rayn seems to be not bothered by his top scumread voting his 2nd scumread. This one's more interesting. Actually I partly caught Cephiro (ok he was already caught) in Noir because he produced two scumreads and didn't mention that one attacked the other. It wasn't on day 1 though.
Arguably Dirkzor is my 2nd "scumread" even though I'm not sure he actually is though. Actually in the end I don't have that much of a problem on day 1 with that sort of thing, because it means maybe you're wrong on something. You can't make votes based on rankings of scumminess, because what that is is connections between unflipped players when it comes down to it.
I would reiterate that slOosh being scummy but not scummiest for both rayn and BH earlier in the day kinda made me feel good about that lynch. For the "hedging bets" kinda reasons
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One other thing - the case (or what I read of it) makes it sound like Risen thinks that slOosh is rayn's scumbuddy.
Which necessarily would mean that Clarity is town, and yet Risen said that his feelings on Clarity remained the same.
And yet partly at least the case on rayn almost seems to rest on slOosh being mafia? Risen says that rayn is doing anything not to vote slOosh. Surely this only makes sense if slOosh is mafia, surely therefore it makes sense to lynch slOosh (given they would both be mafia) to prove that part of the case.
Yes?
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I'd actually really like thoughts on my post just there.
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It wasn't a "I'm getting impatient", it was a "I'm still mulling over what I wrote and I think it might be quite significant so I'm gonna say something else to emphasise it" type thing.
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On October 04 2013 06:05 Risen wrote:
HE'S WILLING TO VOTE FOR A TOWN READ
NO HE ISN'T
HE NEVER SAYS THAT
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On October 04 2013 06:07 Holyflare wrote:
Risen is saying that rayn didn't mention first scumread targeting second. I'm not sure he's implying they are together though I could be wrong. I get the feeling that this sloosh wagon while seemingly apt has gained a lot of traction quickly which I'm not sure I'm too thrilled about. It's all seemed to fit together too nicely and people have kind of just slotted into it...
if slOosh is mafia there's only one other mafia to provide resistance to it.
And slOosh barely reached a majority.
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I literally told you EXACTLY what was wrong with your last case.
:/
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He means that he thinks you could be town because you've had the same thoughts as me a lot.
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I should be around most of the time up until deadline too. I think there's enough players for a wagon if slOosh suddenly starts shitting towniness.
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The thing about BH is that he calls slOosh suspicious earlier in the day, and then with literally nothing from slOosh in between, now declares him town and he won't vote for him.
It's smelly.
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And then you made a very similar case on Risen disregarding said meta, thus making your defence of slOosh even smellier.
nice job there
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On October 04 2013 06:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
And then you made a very similar case on Risen disregarding said meta, thus making your defence of slOosh even smellier.
nice job there already explained there you want to vote me or what? mess or dont
I'm mulling it over.
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your explanation was terrible and made no sense btw.
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yes but if it makes sense to you and no sense to anyone else, that's called not making sense.
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On October 04 2013 06:53 Blazinghand wrote:
dude he literally does this as town how is he scum for this
RISEN LITERALLY DOES WHAT YOU SAID AS TOWN
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Anyone wanna wagon BH? I'm game
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if we shenannie on to you, we easily can.
I'm hoping slOosh decides you're mafia so I have a good excuse to kill you.
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because "no" is not an argument, that's you being a twat. That's not how a townie should play, so I have to assume you're mafia.
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##Unvote
##Vote: BlazingHand
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by the way guys
BlazingHand moved his vote to rayn because his main scumread who he was voting for (Risen) voted for rayn
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So you don't give a shit who you lynch?
Yeah that's real townie.
BH is mafia.
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Don't need your vote to kill you though.
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no you're mafia and you should be killed.
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I made about 3 rational arguments just on this page.
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You're not clearly town, you're mafia, and I'm perfectly calm.
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BlazingHand doesn't care who he lynches, he just hops about from lynch target to lynch target.
Instead of trying to convince players to lynch someone he thinks is mafia, he gives up and moves on to a different lynch target. Townies will try hard to get their main scumread lynched. Instead he just makes cases to look like he's making cases, but actually he has very little interest on who gets lynched.
BlazingHand made a hypocritical defence and attack on slOosh and Risen respectively.
BlazingHand voted Risen just because he decided he wanted to vote him, not because he thought he was mafia. BlazingHand doesn't care about the lynch.
BlazingHand voted alongside his fakescumread on another scumread, who probably wasn't even his scumread in the first place.
BlazingHand does not give a shit about this town, he doesn't care about finding the best lynch, he just wants to look active and look like he cares. He does not.
He is mafia.
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oh noes, mafia douchebag is threatening the towniest guy in the game! :O
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I'm not mad, you're scum.
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On October 04 2013 07:13 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing, explain what your current read on risen is scummy, especially with his latest shitcase on rayne. probably didn't want it to be read. Looks like it took a lot of effort but honestly a real case is aimed at convincing people, not increasing word count. Not worth lynching today though I guess I'd rather him than me
you just said that you made a case on Risen that was fake because you couldn't get your main scumreads lynched
what is this bullshit?
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On October 04 2013 07:04 Blazinghand wrote:
also like what, main scumread? I was voting for risen cause you guys don't want to lynch rayne or oats. I talked myself out of real lynches and voted just some guy, but i'm done with that. I vote who I want.
You're a liar.
You are mafia.
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On October 04 2013 07:04 Blazinghand wrote:
also like what, main scumread? I was voting for risen cause you guys don't want to lynch rayne or oats. I talked myself out of real lynches and voted just some guy, but i'm done with that. I vote who I want.
On October 04 2013 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:14 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:13 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing, explain what your current read on risen is scummy, especially with his latest shitcase on rayne. probably didn't want it to be read. Looks like it took a lot of effort but honestly a real case is aimed at convincing people, not increasing word count. Not worth lynching today though I guess I'd rather him than me you just said that you made a case on Risen that was fake because you couldn't get your main scumreads lynched what is this bullshit? i didn't say my case was fake. and yeah I decided I didn't want to lynch him earlier but like if the alternative is me, fuck yeah let's lynch risen
These 2 quotes are bullshit together.
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On October 04 2013 07:16 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:04 Blazinghand wrote:
also like what, main scumread? I was voting for risen cause you guys don't want to lynch rayne or oats. I talked myself out of real lynches and voted just some guy, but i'm done with that. I vote who I want. On October 04 2013 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:14 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:13 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing, explain what your current read on risen is scummy, especially with his latest shitcase on rayne. probably didn't want it to be read. Looks like it took a lot of effort but honestly a real case is aimed at convincing people, not increasing word count. Not worth lynching today though I guess I'd rather him than me you just said that you made a case on Risen that was fake because you couldn't get your main scumreads lynched what is this bullshit? i didn't say my case was fake. and yeah I decided I didn't want to lynch him earlier but like if the alternative is me, fuck yeah let's lynch risen These 2 quotes are bullshit together. as in like top 2 scumreads christ
There are two mafia and you're trying to lynch your 3rd scumread?
Ok BH. Makes perfect sense.
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On October 04 2013 07:17 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:17 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:16 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:04 Blazinghand wrote:
also like what, main scumread? I was voting for risen cause you guys don't want to lynch rayne or oats. I talked myself out of real lynches and voted just some guy, but i'm done with that. I vote who I want. On October 04 2013 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:14 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 07:13 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 07:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazing, explain what your current read on risen is scummy, especially with his latest shitcase on rayne. probably didn't want it to be read. Looks like it took a lot of effort but honestly a real case is aimed at convincing people, not increasing word count. Not worth lynching today though I guess I'd rather him than me you just said that you made a case on Risen that was fake because you couldn't get your main scumreads lynched what is this bullshit? i didn't say my case was fake. and yeah I decided I didn't want to lynch him earlier but like if the alternative is me, fuck yeah let's lynch risen These 2 quotes are bullshit together. as in like top 2 scumreads christ There are two mafia and you're trying to lynch your 3rd scumread? Ok BH. Makes perfect sense. well YEAH if I can't get my top scumread lynched, this shit is majority, not plurality.
Your 3rd scumread is almost by definition mafia.
I literally cannot comprehend a townie settling for someone outside of his top 2 scumreads.
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Any townies reading this:
If you have two main scumreads, would you make a random case on a 3rd person and vote for them?
If the answer is "no, i would never do that" then you should be voting BH. It's very simple.
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On October 04 2013 07:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
marv, just because he has two top scumreads doesn't mean he cant have a third weaker scumread, that's a bad argument.
Although yes, blazing didn't fight very hard to get his top scumreads lynched, so there's that.
Answer my question.
If you have two strong scumreads, do you vote for a 3rd person?
If the answer is no, you should be voting BH.
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there's a reason you're legendarily bad as scum.
it's because you make glaring mistakes like these.
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I'm not in a frenzy, I'm very calm.
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ok I'm kinda annoyed. but BH is still mafia.
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Tell me BH.
how do you feel about your townread slOosh's vote on you?
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So you think slOosh is an incompetent townie this game?
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On October 04 2013 07:27 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Please answer my previous question BH.
Also, who do you think is more likely to flip scum: Oats or Risen? Risen I guess, but I still think oats is objectively a better lynch. Although he claims he only screwed up one lylo, he's definitely won at least one lylo as scum, and most of the time he doesn't reach lylo because he gets lynched D1, or he gets cop checked, becomes comfirmed town, and gets shot. the man is a liability PS 3 minutes remain to unvote me
So your topread is someone you want to vote because you think he's a liability?
That's not a reason to think someone is mafia. That's a thinly veiled policy lynch. You don't care about finding mafia, because you are mafia.
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So you've spent all 46 hours or so and your best read is a policy lynch?
Remind me how that's in any way townie?
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You also said Risen is the scummiest guy (but NOT the best lynch) despite admitting you only made the case because you couldn't get rayn or Oats lynched.
NOTHING adds up here.
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How can rayn be a better lynch when you JUST SAID Risen is scummiest?
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I was so close to pushing a policy lynch through on you veiled as a real lynch. That would have been so good.
Damnit.
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I'm obviously not mafia, I just wanted to kill you for being a prick.
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I'm blatantly not mafia. Don't be so stupid.
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If there's a counterclaim, then there's a counterclaim.
The push was weird because I wanted to kill him for being a dick.
##Unvote
##Vote: slOosh
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On October 04 2013 07:35 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:33 marvellosity wrote:
I'm blatantly not mafia. Don't be so stupid. and yet you were deciding to lynch me for fun D1? Also like your case against me was literally "BH doesn't care who gets lynched today" when you LITERALLY DIDNT CARE ABOUT MY ALIGNMENT come on man just give it up. maybe your scummate can win this one for you eh
lol don't be so stupid. I wanted to kill you for being a dick. That's literally all there is to it.
I couldn't push it through as a policy since it was only my own policy, so I just ran with a case.
There's literally nothing else to say about it.
No, I literally did not care about your alignment. That much is blatantly clear.
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On October 04 2013 07:36 slOosh wrote:
Marv why am I best bet for scum?
it's in my filter
plus you literally have provided zero alternatives
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see BH, this is why it would have been cool to kill you.
Because you're so fucking dumb.
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why would I push a wagon on you when I have a majority that I made myself on slOosh?
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you literally cannot answer that question with me as mafia.
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Unless you genuinely think I led a majority on to my scumbuddy for giggles?
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no, a town marv would never do that on day 1, because town marv isn't dumb.
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On October 04 2013 07:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:38 marvellosity wrote:
why would I push a wagon on you when I have a majority that I made myself on slOosh? um, because i'm like an infinitely better player than sloosh
you really are not.
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On October 04 2013 07:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 07:38 marvellosity wrote:
Unless you genuinely think I led a majority on to my scumbuddy for giggles? i dont' draw associative tells between unflipped players
that's not even an answer.
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that's not dumb, BH, that's vindictive.
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because it literally makes no sense if I'm mafia.
if I'm mafia and slOosh is town, then I just let slOosh die.
if I'm mafia and slOosh is mafia, then I arrange literally any other lynch 12 hours ago.
You're being dumb.
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Anyway, I'll be back soon.
I'm so sad BH had a claim to save himself
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On October 04 2013 07:46 Clarity_nl wrote:
marv going afk like this is fucking bullshit btw.
I was at my boyfriend's and now I just travelled home. Some things are unavoidable.
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I literally cannot be mafia for reasons I already explained.
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Do you want to know why I did what I did BH?
I did it because I fucking detest everything you are as a mafia player.
I detest how you pushed for a multi-game ban on me because you fucked up hosting your own game.
I detest how you're so arrogant that you can't see how terrible you are.
I detest how you don't argue, you just say "no, I'm BH" like it makes any sense, but it doesn't because you're shit.
I detest how you declare yourself town-MVP when you always play fucking awfully.
Most of all I detest how you treat newbie players. I will NEVER FORGET how you treated Kickstart in Mario Mini Mafia. Kickstart had never played a god-damn game before and you told him more than once that he was stupid and he should be ignored. It's just disgusting and you've done it multiple times to newer players since.
I fucking detest it.
So when you go "no" when I'm trying to make a logical argument with me, then it's just shit, and I try to lynch you for being fucking annoying.
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omg IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR ME TO BE MAFIA
HOW CAN YOU BE THIS BRAINDEAD
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anyway i'm done arguing with you. i'm blatantly not getting lynched.
slOosh, who is mafia?
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On October 04 2013 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Clarity, summarize the case on me and why I'm a substantially, or even remotely better lynch than Risen or Dirkzor (or whoever).
The problem is, you should be doing this.
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On October 04 2013 07:50 slOosh wrote:
BH's logic is sound. Having a no-lynch isn't of too much consequence, and if scum marv did gain enough traction to hit BH, then he would still have me in the back pocket to push a lynch onto.
He says in his filter than he respects my play, but is content with letting me die, despite having very hazy reads on Dirk and Risen. There still isn't any proper case on me, despite "he was maybe right about dirk before anyone else", and "his read on clarity wasn't that good".
Forget it, slOosh is mafia, he can't possibly believe what he's written here as town.
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slOosh is mafia. That post there can't come from town-slOosh. Town slOosh would know the whole argument is bullshit.
BH's logic isn't sound, it literally makes zero sense for me to go balls to the wall lynching BH at this point in the game. It couldn't actually make any less sense and yet slOosh is agreeing with it.
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Effectively slOosh has no scumreads, he proceeds to agree with me when I go after BH, then proceeds to agree with BH when BH claims doctor.
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On October 04 2013 08:12 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:10 marvellosity wrote:
slOosh is mafia. That post there can't come from town-slOosh. Town slOosh would know the whole argument is bullshit.
BH's logic isn't sound, it literally makes zero sense for me to go balls to the wall lynching BH at this point in the game. It couldn't actually make any less sense and yet slOosh is agreeing with it. I really don't believe your fake indignation at me. It's a decent cover and you're a charismatic, talkative guy, so you're probably gonna wriggle out of this lynch. Bringin up stuff from so long ago in a contrived anger post... blah.
I don't give a shit what you believe. You're a total moron and you always will be.
It still makes 0 sense for me as mafia to push you in that situation.
You're a total moron because you can't see really obvious thingsl ike this.
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On October 04 2013 08:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
Actually why would sloosh know the argument is bullshit. Do you consider sloosh to be a stronger player than blazing? Since you believe he is doc, he is truthful about what he thinks of you, yes?
I think Blazing is terrible and across multiple games I've said I respect slOosh.
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Make me stop. Oh wait you can't.
Here's how I approach slOosh in general in my head
Original Message From slOosh: No, I don't take anything personally this game. I realize with hindsight my desire to lynch VE was very emotionally driven and caused me to neglect logic (if VE was bussing MrZentor, then lynching MrZentor is O.K, no need to lynch VE today). Again, emotion since it seemed so hard to lynch people (not lynching MrZentor because he was too blatantly scummy), and you are justified in saying I bullied you into lynching VE. In any case my final reads were way off so you are right in that a scum me could have done exactly the same thing. All in all, a bitter, but meaningful experience, that will hopefully make us better players. Thanks for your activity and commitment to each game <3 Show nested quote +Original Message From marvellosity:
sorry for under/overestimating you in NMM2... (not sure which!)
what really got to me was how you said you trusted me and zeph and then basically ignored us when it was important, I just couldn't get over it.
I also thought you were a good enough player day 3 that if you were scum you could make a bunch of coherent cases, when of course it was just townie you doing your fucking hardest to find the scum, and I was too closed-minded, sorry.
much love <3
this was over a year ago, but it should be obvious
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however retarded you are that you can't see that i hate you, it still makes zero sense for me to push you as mafia in that situation.
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On October 04 2013 08:20 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:19 Holyflare wrote:On October 04 2013 08:18 Blazinghand wrote:On October 04 2013 08:18 Holyflare wrote:
I'm sorry what the actual fuck? You people actually think a doc claim was reasonable at that current time?? Everyone was still on sloosh, it was 4-2 and marv wasn't really gaining any traction. With an hour to go or more why would there ever be a need to claim doc in that circumstance, especially as it's the only power role in the entire game. which makes marv's instant belief even more weird, right somewhat, but other peoples behaviour has been way more suspect than marvs currently Like who?
Like everyone. Are you mafia Clarity?
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oh. yeah ok that makes sense.
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see, slOosh isn't here.
Even though he was here. If you see what i mean.
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your lynch on me is gaining massive traction BH
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On October 04 2013 08:25 slOosh wrote:
So here's my problem marv. You say you respect my play. From your filter I glean that you have very iffy reads on Risen and Dirkzor. I also glean that your scum read of me is not substantially strong, mainly based on what I haven't done rather than what I have done.
And yet you are content to let me sail is disconcerting.
It's precisely because I respect you that I want to lynch you. I don't understand how you don't see that.
I'll read the rest of your post now.
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I've stopped reading BH's posts tbh.
I could lynch Risen. slOosh's post looks really genuine.
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i literally don't know what to do :D
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I just want to kill BH
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i got sidetracked
if holy thinks i;'m scummy, then he's scummy
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lol he flipped mafia?
that's hilarious
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I can't believe he pushed BH when he came back to the thread and got lynched for it
ahahahaha
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also we'd never have lynched rayn if I hadn't pushed BH
(yes i know that's silly)
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I'm gonna have a joint, as if that shit isn't funny enough already.
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I did, in ways I'd rather not talk about. I was refreshing occasionally but not really able to participate. don't really care anyway as he flipped mafia
that's the most suicidal mafia i've ever seen
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probably rayn told us who the other mafia was.
if he was wasted enough to attack BH in that situation, he probably gave something else away too
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who cares? it's just funny
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holyflare has to be town, don't think rayn makes that case on a scumbuddy
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On October 04 2013 08:52 Risen wrote:
No that's only two including me not enough
##unvote
##vote: sloosh
so we think Risen preferred a slOosh lynch over lynching his main scumread rayn here? he moved off his main scumread temporarily to put his vote on slOosh just to get a majority?
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if there's a plan, that sounds lovely. means i can stop thinking about the game.
should i read what i missed?
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i'd lynch dirk before oats anyday
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did you guys decide Risen was town because he made a case on rayn or some other reason?
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but Dirk was rayn's #1 lynch of choice after he went off holy...?
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ugh, i'm going to have to think about this properly at some stage, this is irritating
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Of anyone in the game, I'd be least surprised at Risen putting his vote on rayn.
Certainly because there was a non-zero chance that I was around to vote rayn and hammer him myself. It's the kinda shit that Risen can pull as mafia.
However, does seem a bit stretchy maybe that he'd make that case on his scumbuddy in the middle of the day. I still don't know why Risen would *unvote* rayn for slOosh towards deadline just to get a lynch tho
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first sentence should have "as mafia" on the end
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It is pretty undeniable that rayn's attitude towards slOosh makes slOosh look pretty bad, imo.
slOosh was 2nd scummiest for rayn after rayn went off Holy, and yet he basically outright refused to vote him.
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it's funny because I poked holes in Risen's case for making connections between rayn and slOosh and his case on rayn partly rested on rayn doing anything he could do to not vote for slOosh.
Sorry Risen :p
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yes, but at that point the choice was rayn or slOosh, so it's like whatever really.
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then lynch me, but lynch slOosh after. i don't care.
can't believe you'd join in the stupid parade of thinking i'd get a majority on slOosh and then randomly attack BH though.
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like, policy me all you like, but there's no chance i'm mafia.
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the deathpost is one post. read everything Dirk wrote.
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actually READ the case, don't skim over it with your pre-determined opinion of that one post (which i agree looked good!)
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I'd bet money it was slOosh, but i'd lynch Dirk before Oats probably. Slot me in there and I don't really care, I just need to call everyone but 2 people town.
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i wanna get to the point that i'm confident enough to go 1for1, so i can't be accused of hedging :d
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I really do think Oats is town.
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On October 04 2013 20:16 Clarity_nl wrote:The only reason I do is his whole derp argument the second half of day 1
it's a really good reason.
rayn in a game really recently (where he and oats were town) was 100% convinced that Oats was town after a similar (and not even so derpy) argument
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I think it was Desert actually if you wanna check their filters out
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i think lynching sloosh/dirk/(me) should win the game.
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On October 04 2013 20:21 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 20:20 marvellosity wrote:
I think it was Desert actually if you wanna check their filters out Yeah I read desert and I do remember rayn fakeclaiming mason to save him, lol.
Yeah! bingo
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naw, i'm done with that
it'll be amusing after the game when he realises i actually felt strongly enough to go against all my playtowin principles to try to lynch him though
because what he said is essentially right, i have an immense will-to-win so i never do shit like that
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well, it'll amuse me, probably.
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I was so close to making it happen as well.
The only time i ever did something similar was on omgus and i was jester. I failed and got nked. epic fail
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now you understand!
i did try pointing that out during the lynch, but people were ignoring me at this stage because of my BH thing.
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Remember I used the word "opportunistic" on Dirkzor earlier?
slOosh going on to BH and then me is practically the definition of that
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Convince is a little strong.
But it's all yours, baby. Definitely didn't originate from me, it's just where I ended up.
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let me know, i'm too lazy to do that at this stage.
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I mean if you disagree with something in particular, say so.
Simple ^^
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I'm going to be pretty suspicious of anyone leaving their options open come day 2.
this should to an extent be open and shut.
Town seemed to be in a good spot to me before I went nuts on BH, and then with a crazy mafia lynch, the game should be over.
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If mafia are in the likely-lynch list I guess.
If they're outside the list then town is in some trouble :p
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On October 04 2013 22:35 Holyflare wrote:
I mean i thought world heavyweight championship would be harder :p
You never watched heavyweight boxing?
They kinda lumber around for a couple of rounds then someone gets knocked out kinda randomly. It's not very exciting.
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I might have performed the ear-biting equivalent with BH yesterday.
#tenuousconnections
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Free cookies for everyone!
no counting chickens though. I'm basically waiting for Clarity to do work so I can assess it like a kindly teacher.
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I'm hoping A+ :o
Clarity's my qtiepatootie
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The worst thing about Risen is that he swapped to sloosh off rayn at the end of the day before swapping back to rayn again.
Don't know how much it means though.
Did rayn react to Risen's case at all, or was he absent by then?
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I think if we can be sure on Risen then we'll be ok.
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On October 04 2013 23:22 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't think it Risen. Not one bit
What makes you feel so strongly, boss?
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On October 04 2013 23:35 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 23:24 marvellosity wrote:On October 04 2013 23:22 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't think it Risen. Not one bit What makes you feel so strongly, boss? It's sloosh therefor it can't be Risen. Quite simple.
That wasn't quite what I was looking for, although I admire your certainty regardless.
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On October 05 2013 00:01 Risen wrote:
As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town.
This is literally completely untrue.
I am in general very conservative as mafia.
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by the way, you were wrong about what you think you were right about.
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It is a policy lynch.
There is 0% chance I make that play as mafia.
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It is a policy lynch, just because you think it isn't, it is.
I would never make that play as mafia. A casual analysis of all of my mafia games would confirm that. The biggest plays I ever make as mafia is fake-claiming a role at an appropriate time.
I simply don't make crazy plays as mafia.
If I have a majority on a townie and I'm already looking really good I don't throw it all away like that. I simply don't play that way. Check my games.
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I also don't rage against someone as mafia.
Ever.
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i know who is mafia in the other game. not gonna say anymore now. you are wrong.
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again, me doing what I did as mafia makes zero sense.
I was literally the towniest guy in the game by some margin. I had a majority on a townie.
"Throwing a wrench in the works" would mean throwing that away, it's senseless. Use your brain. I don't play crazy as mafia.
You said yourself "i think he makes crazier plays as mafia than town". That is simply WRONG.
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you're basically trying to apply your philosophy to playing scum to me, whereas i am the diametric opposite. it's dumb.
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and yes, i'd have lynched BH and then gloated selfishly about it.
isn't that obvious?
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On October 05 2013 00:01 Risen wrote:
As scum or town I think marv plays an amazing game, but I also think as scum he is prone to do more crazy things than as town.
Like your reasons for calling me mafia start from something that's totally the wrong way round. it's silly
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If you think I am mafia, please refer back to this post later on. I wish to lynch slOosh. If we lynch slOosh and he flips town, then you can lynch me straight after.
And if I argue you can just quote this post.
I'm happy to take the 1 for 1.
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Meta isn't horrible, and I'm a player you greatly respect, apparently, in part because I'm very good at meta.
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On October 05 2013 00:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:23 marvellosity wrote:
If you think I am mafia, please refer back to this post later on. I wish to lynch slOosh. If we lynch slOosh and he flips town, then you can lynch me straight after.
And if I argue you can just quote this post.
I'm happy to take the 1 for 1. Oh shut up marv that's just dumb
how is it dumb? from Risen's perspective, I'm guaranteeing myself a loss as mafia.
which i'm happy to take.
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Your argument essentially boils down to this:
"you looked incredibly townie and you had a majority on a townie, but you decided to throw it all away just to put a spanner in the works"
that's a really, really bad argument.
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I hate people calling me mafia though so I do whatever it takes for people to see sense
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if it takes me guaranteeing myself a loss in the hypothetical scenario where i'm mafia, then i'll take it. shrug.
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On October 05 2013 00:33 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
if it takes me guaranteeing myself a loss in the hypothetical scenario where i'm mafia, then i'll take it. shrug. Yeah but if sloosh flips town you're not just gonna roll over and die regardless of alignment so... stahp
yeah i will.
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i'd just have to rely on town finding the right lynch the next day, because i'm gonna keep to my word
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then you haven't read his case very well.
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Why would people talk?
You completely ignored the most comprehensive case of this phase to post your own prattle. What were you expecting?
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Just read Dirk's case, he explains it pretty fully.
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also yeah, dunno what to explain when the explanation is literally right in that 2 line post i made
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On October 05 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:03 Clarity_nl wrote:
"Oh noes, the guy I'm calling scum is telling me he's not scum and I'm being an idiot. Then someone else disagreed with me too!"
"Fuck this shit, I'm out" I'm not upset about that. People will lynch the person they find scummy, I've said my piece. I'm upset about this. Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
I really wanna know why Sloosh isnt in that list that Risen posted the day before. The silence following dropping something like that is bullshit
The problem is, you're totally ignoring the other important content in the thread, assuming that your interpretation is correct, and listening to noone. That's not good play (blabla going after BH was bad play blabla i know).
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Oats saying that and leaving is nowhere near as bad as you ignoring Dirk's piece.
"I said my piece" is not how mafia is played, town has to work together.
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Your case wasn't ignored.
We're not being obtuse, it's just not that big a deal to get up in a tizz about it.
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On October 05 2013 01:25 Risen wrote:
Like, that's totally scummy, but I'm finding it hard not to find Clarity and marv not scummy because they're not seeing that. How do you now see this?
the fact you tihnk this is an error in your own thinking, not other people's.
as is the case 95% of the time when one person believes something from everyone else in mafia.
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it's whatever, because he's very unlikely to be mafia, he's just being Oats.
like literally you making your case on me and not addressing the case that's already in the thread is significantly worse.
you just don't see it that way because it's YOU doing YOUR thing. Works both ways and every which way.
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On October 05 2013 01:32 slOosh wrote:
Ok. I've come to the conclusion.
Do we agree with a slOosh - marv - dirk lynch order? I'm ok with that if I can guarantee the 1 for 1 with marv, which will be the trickest part.
how is it tricky? i've guaranteed it personally.
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On October 05 2013 01:34 slOosh wrote:
From my standpoint, its a lot easier. Eliminate the people who voted rayn, and so I get a pool of marv, Oats, dirk.
Rayn built his main case on dirk and dirk pointed out rayn pretty early in the game (~pg 20).
Oats is gut feels, and my town read on him remarkably stronger than my read on marv.
you only have to find one mafia, don't eliminate ANYONE.
Find that one mafia and push the case. it's really easy.
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that's not what he said clarity.
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Literally slOosh, given there's only one to find, I don't know why you'd arbitrarily eliminate anyone. that's silly.
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On October 05 2013 01:43 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
that's not what he said clarity. " this is the first time I've had a non-activity case built against me as town, and so in my mind I've dismissed it as incorrect / misled." What am I misunderstanding? Also why has sloosh dismissed the case on him as incorrect on anything other than the fact that in his eyes he's town? :D
it means that normally the cases on him are based on non-activity
this is the first time there's a proper case based on other things
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i think it's a weird english negative sorta thing. and you're not native. our laziness probably :p
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slOosh, don't defend yourself (well i guess you can), find us the one remaining mafia if you're town.
and if you think it's me, then find another one :p
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On October 05 2013 02:02 Dirkzor wrote:
Just for reference later can you guys list the point you agree with me on regarding sloosh. Just a few lines. Thansk (away for dinner)
no, i just agree.
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On October 05 2013 02:59 Blazinghand wrote:
man if our three lynches are gonna be marv sloosh dirk we better be sure oats is town
if you genuinely think i'm mafia still, i'd really really like you to look at the game as if i were town and produce thoughts on that basis before you die.
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lynching slOosh is logical just to check if that wagon was scum or town tbh.
from a gameplay perspective alone it makes a lot of sense.
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On October 05 2013 03:07 Blazinghand wrote:
Lynching for information is pretty questionable. Lynching because we think he could be scum is more reasonable.
try reading my posts. i was making a separate point. it's pretty clear i think sloosh is mafia as it stands.
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On October 05 2013 00:26 marvellosity wrote:
Your argument essentially boils down to this:
"you looked incredibly townie and you had a majority on a townie, but you decided to throw it all away just to put a spanner in the works"
that's a really, really bad argument.
but thinking i'm mafia is dumb, because this ^
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no, definitely lynch me after sloosh. just do it.
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funny how noone chooses BH to represent TL offsite isn't it
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On October 05 2013 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:12 marvellosity wrote:
no, definitely lynch me after sloosh. just do it. Would you be happy if the order were reversed?
i wouldn't be ecstatic, because slOosh is mafia. and i see no reason to lynch me ahead of mafia.
i'm so confident offering the trade because slOosh is gonna flip mafia.
and it won't be lylo if sloosh is actually town, so town can afford to kill me. why would town kill me? because there's always that nagging doubt that somehow i'm a scum mastermind, even though
On October 05 2013 03:11 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:26 marvellosity wrote:
Your argument essentially boils down to this:
"you looked incredibly townie and you had a majority on a townie, but you decided to throw it all away just to put a spanner in the works"
that's a really, really bad argument. but thinking i'm mafia is dumb, because this ^
the fact you don't understand this argument is just terrible.
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On October 05 2013 03:15 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:14 marvellosity wrote:
funny how noone chooses BH to represent TL offsite isn't it would you be happy to be lynched first if we 100% gauranteed sloosh was lynch #2?
no, i want to lynch mafia. lynch me after.
there's literally no difference except we win a cycle earlier.
you won't be around for either lynch anyway.
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ah.
back to ignoring BH.
should have known not to actually talk to him.
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i'm willing to be the 2nd lynch because i know we'll have won by then.
and if we haven't won then town will NEED to kill me or they'll tear themselves apart
and town will still have another lynch to get it right.
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there is no problem except we're lynching sloosh tomorrow.
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except we're lynching sloosh tomorrow.
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didn;t talk my way out of anything
i've literally written 10x that i can be lynched if sloosh flips town
people just have to quote my posts and vote me.
thing is, BH, most of the game aren't moronic imbeciles, so we won't be lynching me tomorrow.
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except i'm town and most of town aren't morons so we won't lynch me tomorrow
ez
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no, because working with you is like working with a deranged cat.
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good for you. still lynching sloosh tomorrow.
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On October 05 2013 03:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:25 marvellosity wrote:
except i'm town and most of town aren't morons so we won't lynch me tomorrow
ez This is not an answer marv.
fine vote me.
i'll be voting sloosh
this is really simple.
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On October 05 2013 03:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
I want to know why Marv is against lynching himself day 2, but not day 3.
because sloosh is mafia and i'm a guaranteed lynch day 3
i only have one argument if sloosh is town "but i'm town"
i will not use it. you can quote this post for proof and vote me as a liar.
I will also not call anyone else scum on day 3.
you can quote this post for proof and vote me as a liar if i do.
we done?
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I won't play hardup.
People just need to literally quote my own posts and vote for me.
It's so easy.
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On October 05 2013 03:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thats not an answer.
Marv, you dont have a reason to not get lynched day 2 rather than day 3.
0 reasons.
You are just saying, DONT LYNCH ME DAY 2.
because sloosh is scum you fucking moron and i want to lynch scum
how hard is that to understand?
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yeah Oats is moving up my lynch list.
but not before me! lynch me before oats.
etc etc etc etc bored now let's kill the mafia sloosh.
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On October 05 2013 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:32 marvellosity wrote:On October 05 2013 03:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thats not an answer.
Marv, you dont have a reason to not get lynched day 2 rather than day 3.
0 reasons.
You are just saying, DONT LYNCH ME DAY 2.
because sloosh is scum you fucking moron and i want to lynch scum how hard is that to understand? Why do you want to lynch scum? You already lynched scum day 1, ISNT THAT ENOUGH?
are you completely demented?
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that's literally the most demented thing i've ever read in a game of mafia.
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anyway i need to go workout, these glutes won't build themselves.
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i literally cannot get over that post.
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do you just flail your hands at the keyboard oats?
is it pure luck that you actually type in words?
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On October 05 2013 03:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why cant you say your ego is too big to be lynched before sloosh Marv?
it goes without saying?
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objectively the right moev is to lynch sloosh because he's mafia
...
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and yes i've not been mislynched in my last 35 towngames or so, so it would be nice not to be mislynched this game.
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On October 05 2013 03:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:39 marvellosity wrote:
and yes i've not been mislynched in my last 35 towngames or so, so it would be nice not to be mislynched this game. it would also be nice not to out the doctor, or to be around at the lynch deadline (rather than just claiming to read the thread afterwards) but we can't always get what we want marv and I think there's a decent chance you're scum.
there's not a decent chance and i've explained why
also sloosh is mafia.
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On October 05 2013 03:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:39 marvellosity wrote:
and yes i've not been mislynched in my last 35 towngames or so, so it would be nice not to be mislynched this game. aha! So heres the reason. Also marv, arent you banking your 35 towngames on the fact that you read sloosh correctly? ARE YOU SURE??
I'm sure enough to bet my 35 towngame streak, yes.
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On October 05 2013 03:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:39 marvellosity wrote:
and yes i've not been mislynched in my last 35 towngames or so, so it would be nice not to be mislynched this game. it would also be nice not to out the doctor, or to be around at the lynch deadline (rather than just claiming to read the thread afterwards) but we can't always get what we want marv and I think there's a decent chance you're scum.
i was around, i just couldn't type.
mysterious i know.
probably quite suspicious too, but that's part of the fun.
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as long as you know we'll never play a game together again, oats.
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anyway i really am off this time
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was that a case on Oats? I couldn't really tell
##Vote: slOosh
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The issue I have with slOosh is that as a townie, you know know KNOW that there is a mafia out there. You're up for lynch? So you god-damned find them! slOosh seems to be behaving like he knows there isn't a mafia out there...
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if he's mafia he can roll over all he likes
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you don't get through to Risen.
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On October 06 2013 03:24 Dirkzor wrote:
I agree with Risen that Oats is doing some scummy things (and Risen caught where I was going... Clarity clearly didn't). His nightplay is so weird I'm starting to think he is the last scum just trolling around. I mean "What if BH isn't doc?"!? What the...
Also Oats just parroted the thread feeling about who was scum. First the 3 not on rayn lynch. Then Sloosh maybe. Then Sloosh. Risen is town. Then Sloosh and Risen is scum (with sloosh ahead), Then Marv is scum and he want to lynch him over sloosh because "hur hur". Day 2 he vote sloosh.
He have just been trying to push in any which way the thread was going.
I would say that in... Golden Sun I think? I was casually following the game towards the end. rayn had figured out the game and presented the solution to town. And it appeared to me that Oats was just totally trolling rayn and I thought that because of this Oats had to be mafia, and I was sure enough about it that I asked Oats on irc to confirm. Except he was town.
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it's why i'm a good player Risen
i have a more nuanced approach to the game than you do.
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I'm not declaring Oats certainly town because of it, but
a) slOosh is still mafia ( i hope :d )
b) it's something to weigh up and consider when thinking about oats.
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stop arguing you two, it's very likely you're both town after all
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On October 06 2013 05:27 Clarity_nl wrote:
Come on sloosh talk to me
this.
back and forth is required
and i trust clarity to do it
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the thing is, with most of town thinking slOosh is mafia, slOosh is in a unique position right now (if he's town) of knowing that's not the case and having a unique perspective
he should use it!
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seriously slOosh, if you don't think we (certainly me, and clarity by the looks of things, and probably everyone else too) are willing to hear you out, you're wrong, so... yeah
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On October 06 2013 05:00 slOosh wrote:
The fact is that people's primary town reads on him come stem from his case on me.
this isn't the case, as far as i'm aware. not for me at any rate.
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if slOosh is town i'm gonna be so sad.
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is oats trying to claim mafia or something?
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slOosh flips town does he?
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On October 06 2013 23:55 Holyflare wrote:
He said already that was because sloosh wasn't him (who the other wagon was on) read his filter please. Just because you say you are town does not mean you've done anything to prove it to us.
it does actually, else we'd all be voting for him.
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dunno, but atm we think sloosh is mafia, so i'm not worrying about it
i admire you guys' ... er... enthusiasm to tear each other apart, though
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On October 07 2013 18:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
marv should scumhunt methinks
i will, later.
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no-one's safe btw
when i have townreads on everybody, it means one of them is wrong, and it could be anyone
be afraaaaaaaaaaaid (or don't, seems hard)
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I can casually but not really put suspicion on too... like this Dirk... could be you.......
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tempted to say that anyone who hasn't casually left the door open for a marv lynch is town.
Don't know if anyone didn't do that though
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certainly wouldn't be Dirk or Clarity that got called town.
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no, i'd think if you wanted to look seriously at me you'd do so without casually dropping the idea there just because.
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you're not reading what i wrote very well are you
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I didn't say anyone who thinks i'm scum/scummy is suspicious.
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probably not. let's talk about them constructively at some stage. i'm not in the mood now though
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why? i'm not getting nightkilled am i
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Should probably be around to talk about things in the 3 hours or so leading up to deadline though. Or if people have specific stuff they want to lob at me in the meantime that's fine, but I don't have the time to look into things deeply at all until then.
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There seems to be enough lingering suspicion on me (as opposed to you as a prime example) that my death seems rather unlikely.
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On October 07 2013 22:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
Marv is town. No doubt at all. Did no one read where I called him too dick to be scum?
This is 100% accurate
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but if everyone thinks i'm town then that means i actually have a time-limit. arg.
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On October 07 2013 22:23 Holyflare wrote:
I really don't think mafia would have been on the rayn wagon to be honest so I don't see how you can disagree.
Really easily.
There is literally no reason why mafia would think that I, having been around right up until lynchtime, would be mysteriously afk for 20 minutes. Realistically (if I were mafia) I'd be counting my vote toward the wagon.
What if the dude didn't vote for rayn, and I came back and voted for rayn? Like, I am literally in the thread, it can be expected.
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by "if I were mafia" I mean, if I were around at the time, but obviously as not-me, because I'm the one who could have voted rayn.
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See, you're just painting everything as scummy Holy.
That's scummy.
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Btw, I'm a pragmatist.
In Les Mis, there was a day where there was a preordained lynch, and I sat around and did jack shit, and got in trouble for it.
I don't work when I don't have to, and I work hard when I do.
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On October 07 2013 22:38 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 22:32 marvellosity wrote:
See, you're just painting everything as scummy Holy.
That's scummy. well oats is scummy as shit to me
that's fair enough. do you have a consolidated post somewhere as to why? if so could you point me to it? if not, could you explain for me? it's hard when it's kinda strewn across many posts.
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Risen did move his vote to slOosh at the deadline actually. I've pointed it out before but it's one of the most interesting bits of the whole lynch.
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I mean obviously he moved it back to rayn when it swang back that way, but nonetheless it happened
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Nothing makes sense to me right now, therefore I have to indulge in some things that involve a little bit of fantasy.
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'cept if he were in fact mafia, it would be right now, wouldn't it? 
rayn was never under threat until last minute shenannies
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On October 07 2013 23:18 Clarity_nl wrote:
Bussing your teammate happens. But rayn was completely off the map. To bus him day 1 when there's no way he gets lynched is just dumb.
Yes, scum are dumb too sometimes (rayn is the evidence of that) but I just don't see it.
aren't you reading what you write?
it's the safest time to bus and look good for it.
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"different" meaning "wrong"
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If I thought Risen was always completely reasonable, I would be much more suspicious of him than I actually am.
Given that I specifically told him, and I wasn't the only one, why his case on Clarity was ignored. Then he made an identical case on rayn.
If I could rely on Risen to always read the whole thread and understand, then pretty clearly it would indicate he wanted his 2nd case ignored, because he'd been told why his 1st case was ignored and done the same anyway.
As it is... bleh.
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On October 08 2013 03:02 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:
Risen did move his vote to slOosh at the deadline actually. I've pointed it out before but it's one of the most interesting bits of the whole lynch. This is a main reason I want Oats lynched, and yet we have mr lynch me d2 coming in with the same point. Tell me marv, would you have kept your vote on someone if there was a last second bus being moved onto you? No, you wouldn't have. You would have kept a no lynch or yourself lynch from occuring and would have voted sloosh. This is so fucking scummy. You're not stupid, Oats isn't stupid, you both can't be scum and yet you're both doing the same exact thing. So this screams to me that you're scum playing to Oats' fears. If I'm scum marv I'm shooting HF tonight and riding Oats to a Risen lynch then lynching Oats as the creator of the Risen lynch. You even have HF in the thread saying exactly why Oats is wrong on this point and my post from earlier saying why this post is wrong and you STILL say something like this. Why are you soft pushing this so hard? Why don't you find Oats scummy for his push on me when you should? Town marv sees this and finds Oats scummy and wants to lynch Oats in spite of the whole quote me d2.
Pretty clearly just talking about things that were being talked about in the thread, stop your god-damn bitching, it's so boring.
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"this is so scummy, that is so scummy, waawaawaa i'm fucking risen"
so dull
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god, and it only got worse.
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So let's add Risen to marv in the dick-move analysis stakes
two townies down...
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slOosh thinks it's Dirk. And he was town. hrm.
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if it's Dirk and I let him wiggle after catching him i'm gonna be so pissed at myself
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it's interesting how LITTLE rayn addresses the Dirk situation as it's happening.
only kinda comes after him when thread sentiment is moving off on to slOosh.
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rayn and Dirk have so many interactions, it's hard to piece them together and what they mean. ugh
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what he did with sloosh was totally different. dumb thing to say.
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in truly lazy fashion, Dirkzor also has easily the smallest filter, despite defending himself extensively on day 1. hrmdehrm.
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thing is with oats, i get mega townfeels that i can't express very well.
then again, i've not always been right reading oats.
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really need to look into holy but it seems like effort right now
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then again, if risen thinks i could pull that shit on BH as mafia, maybe he could pull off ranting at oats like that as mafia. meh. gonna guess not still i guess.
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meh, HF's opening post isn't so bad.
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HF why are you badgering oats instead of engaging me while i'm musing on things?
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i've heard worse reasons :p
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hahaha. i'm actually quite amused.
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it's because i'm so cute.
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tsk. i've done my raging for this game.
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meh. that's not why i stopped wanting to lynch him.
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his posts sounded kinda sincere
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like, your reason for not wanting to lynch dirk there is not strong compared to say, oats' craziness towards me or something.
don't see why it would take precedence.
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should probably re-read clarity as well, but that's even more effort
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should get time to do holy later with any luck tho
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yeah, i wouldn't even have entertained the notion before aperture, now i have to think about it :< curse people upping their scumgame
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thing is, it's easy to make a defence of anyone Clarity.
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yeah, but atm it's about weighing up the pros and cons, not merely noting that they exist
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i feel kinda bad finding holy suspicious by default, kinda hoping reading him later will give me a decent townread on him
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it is tempting just to troll Risen tbh. He has that about him.
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like people are talking about the game, bringing points up, and he comes in ranting like a nutter.
The urge is strong.
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fact that Risen has me as scummy makes me discount his Oats read somewhat. no way am i the 2nd scummiest dude in the game, and if he thinks i am, then it makes me trust his other reads less.
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eh.
The Holyflare-rayn stuff really doesn't look like scum-scum to me right now.
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you're the only one who thinks so, risen, hence me dismissing you so easily.
i most certainly am not and you ranting won't make it so.
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yeah I just can't believe Holyflare is mafia from what I'm reading right now
if he is, he's playing a blinder.
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On October 08 2013 08:13 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And anyone with a town read on Oats is suspect.
yeah, just like you thought I was really suspicious in Can't Believe Mafia for having a townread on "superscummy" Vivax, who you lynched and proceeded to flip town
do you not remember these things?
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On October 08 2013 08:13 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:13 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And anyone with a town read on Oats is suspect. HOW DOES THAT WORK IF OATS IS SCUM THEN EVERYONE WITH A TOWNREAD ON HIM IS TOWN
lmao this is amazing.
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ahahah i'm actually laughing
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Risen what the fuck is wrong with you lol
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If oats is town, having a townread on him is certainly reasonable because he's town
if oats is mafia, everyone having a townread on him is town
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Holyflare is absolutely town.
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On October 08 2013 08:19 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:16 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 08:16 Risen wrote:On October 08 2013 08:13 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 08:13 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And anyone with a town read on Oats is suspect. HOW DOES THAT WORK IF OATS IS SCUM THEN EVERYONE WITH A TOWNREAD ON HIM IS TOWN Oats hasn't flipped. Do you know something I don't? I had a scum read on you d1 and this looks pretty bad to me. You've been calling him obvious scum all this time and now you're calling everyone with a townread on oats suspicious. >.< It's a layer thing so my #1 scum read is Oats because he's so fucking scummy it hurts. Apparently my feelings on him are bad because they're not wrong but might not be right. Ok. If I take into consideration I'm wrong, then that means Oats is town. If I accept that Oats is town, what should I do? Find the people defending him. Why are you defending him so hard? If anyone bussed rayn I think it would be you, the person who was screaming rayn is NOT a lynch (self-admitted) until the last second. You've been riding that juicy town cred for a while now and all we have to show for it is a sloosh lynch.
On October 08 2013 08:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:13 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And anyone with a town read on Oats is suspect. yeah, just like you thought I was really suspicious in Can't Believe Mafia for having a townread on "superscummy" Vivax, who you lynched and proceeded to flip town do you not remember these things?
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On October 08 2013 08:21 Clarity_nl wrote:The nice thing about there being 1 scum left, I can just blindly believe you. Erm.... I really don't think it's dirk. So that leaves oats or.... risen I guess. >.< Everything I conclude that risen is likely town... Risen appears. But yeah, probably oats then
just lots of things. can't find any reason he's mafia. his massive post is just SO MUCH EFFORT. like, townie levels of super effort.
the holyflare-rayn interactions don't look scum-scum at all.
holy looks really "naturally" suspicious of rayn. like i find this hard to explain, because it's so spread out, but his suspicion on him grows organically.
towards lynch time, he's pretty fast and eager to lynch rayn, like ahead of the curve, not because he's dragged there.
if this guy is mafia... well. just no.
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i also love how risen ignores my points.
like vivax in themed.
like mocsta and firmtofu in LXII who were 'scum' because they played really 'scummy' and 'anti-town'
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I'm sure you were serious, but now i've given you reasons so you can sleep a little better
:p
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the problem is, if mafia leave me alive, we need to get it right tomorrow, because Risen will lynch me with mafia at lylo.
So tomorrow is crucial.
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I did Dirk reading and decided he was the mafia.
I've since read other people and decided they were town.
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On October 08 2013 08:28 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:27 marvellosity wrote:
I did Dirk reading and decided he was the mafia.
I've since read other people and decided they were town. Hmph... Bullet points?
Nothing that'll blow your mind
-slOosh deciding he was mafia at a time when he had sole knowledge he was town. don't ignore dead townies! this is minor I grant.
-opening stuff on Holyflare was still total bullshit, even if his explanations after did read ok
-interactions with rayn aren't obviously not scum-scum like rayn's interactions with holyflare, for example. rayn also totally sidestepped the whole Dirkzor issue when the whole thread was suspicious of Dirkzor, and came to being suspicious of him later when that had died down.
On October 06 2013 20:33 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 19:51 Holyflare wrote:On October 06 2013 18:44 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 06 2013 18:36 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh lynch the guy who made a tunnel case and voted his scum partner when he could've just lynched sloosh.. That's logical. SO WHO DO WE LYNCH THEN? Dirk, you In that order? why?
This is really curious. Why is he quibbling over the order in particular?
On October 06 2013 18:46 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 18:36 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh lynch the guy who made a tunnel case and voted his scum partner when he could've just lynched sloosh.. That's logical. Haha. Yeah. I don't get how you can call Risen scum, Oats. The more you do it the more I want to lynch you after sloosh. At some point before lynch D3 (if we get so far) I'll look into to your D1 action and interactions. Can't really be bothered right now. Sloosh, other then my bad entrance to the thread what have I really done to be scum?
Weird wording given elsewhere Dirk is super-convinced slOosh is mafia. Like he was as convinced as I was, and was I talking about lynching other people (other than myself lolollololololooool) after slOosh like this?
-I find his attitude towards me the weirdest of everyone. townread but not-townread but townread but i might be scum, at some point he asks Oats why I'm not on his potential scumlist etc
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-shortest filter in the game (love dem activity tells bro)
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Mafia need mislynch options, it's very simple.
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On October 08 2013 08:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:38 marvellosity wrote:
-shortest filter in the game (love dem activity tells bro) Yeah this is true especially since he was kinda scumhunting when he was being pressured. I really liked his case on sloosh tho
so what?
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what i wrote is way more than there is on anyone else.
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can't really be bothered arguing with you clarity.
you've not provided one compelling argument why anyone is mafia.
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On October 08 2013 08:45 Holyflare wrote:
Just want to point out that rayn was very adament in his argument with me about talking about oats. Disregarding all the dirkzor stuff.
what do you take from that exactly?
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Anyways, lynching the dude with the shortest filter is 100% a pro tactic.
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yeah whoever the 2nd mafia is has played decently.
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On October 08 2013 08:49 Holyflare wrote:
Well, just skimming through the rayn filter, his entire first page is oats and then his whole conversation with me is about oats etc etc. It just seems pretty selective when he was trying to apply pressure to other people. It seems like something a scum would do - see all the arguments on their ally and then pick them apart while applying pressure elsewhere.
meh. i don't really buy this argument. i just don't think it's actually true as a general principle.
assuming i'm alive tomorrow i'll go over oats a lot more than i have already. i've had town feels and they might be wrong. just his argument with me seemed so townie to me because it was so fucking retarded. usually fucking retarded is, contrary to risen's opinion, a towntell. see me on BH, see Mocsta in LXII, see countless other examples. if you're gonna lynch oats for being "objectively" scummy you're going to lynch him every single game.
So, not precisely sure what i'm going to be looking for there.
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On October 08 2013 08:54 Holyflare wrote:
Re-read rayns filter and count the number of times he mentions oats, especially at times when the topic of conversation was not on oats.
On October 08 2013 08:52 marvellosity wrote:
meh. i don't really buy this argument. i just don't think it's actually true as a general principle.
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like it's possible Oats is mafia, but i don't think that's a reason for it.
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although I would like to say "i told you so" at this point
but wtf
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not going to think about this kill tonight.
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this is some big play.
why, is the question.
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i was the only one who had a decent townread on oats.
so whoever the mafia is, purposefully killed oats while professing suspicion of him.
that was a conscious decision by the mafia.
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it implicates Dirk *so* heavily
because surely anyone non-Dirk makes a normal night-kill and lynches into dirk/oats?
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but that seems so simple.
That's like Dirk signing his own death warrant.
that's extremely confusing.
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yes it's the wifom argument
but even WITH the wifom argument, is the wifom argument removing one of the realistic lynches?
would we really lynch 2 non-dirk people with oats dead just based on wifom? feels really unlikely.
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EBWOP: *is the wifom argument WORTH removing... etc
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On October 08 2013 09:10 Holyflare wrote:
now i have to read up on the people I considered town...........
why would the people you consider(ed) town make that kill?
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that's not an answer, holy
why would me or clarity make that kill instead of me, you, clarity?
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or why would you make that kill
imagine YOU are mafia. why would you kill oats? you're safe...
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but risen killing oats makes no sense either
why would he remove a mislynch
risen wasn't in danger of getting lynched?
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the only reason risen is remotely possible is that he's totally crazy.
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Holyflare's mafia and he's so secure that he's trolling town? :p
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god, and clarity shouted at me for saying lynch me after slOosh
jeez
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why would we frame risen when we can just lynch dirk/oats?
that's stupid
this also doesn't frame Risen, because a "revenge kill" makes zero sense from a gameplay perspective.
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? i don't even know how to respond to that because it doesn't make sense lol
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i mean much as i like to think so, the game doesn't revolve solely around me
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like literally the whole game but me found oats pretty suspicious.
this kill makes no-one at all look anywhere near as suspicious as oats was simply by being alive.
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and you're suspicious for not seeing how that's totally retarded. use your brain.
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then go to bed and stop spouting nonsense.
removing one of the easiest mislynches in the game makes no sense from either mine or clarity's point of view.
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people who are not up for lynch have absolutely no desire to change the "natural" course of the game...
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like literally any reason you can come up with isn't as good a reason as oats being wanted to be lynched by most of the people in the game. that's why it's so fucking weird from any perspective tbh.
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On October 08 2013 09:39 Holyflare wrote:
It makes no sense from anyone's point of view. What's your point?
You get rid of the mislynchable player, you have to mislynch an actual town read. It's harder to lynch someone who looks town at lylo than a maybe he is town/maybe scum guy that can be too volatile. You can then point out how you are the towniest of town to the rest of the people and win the game.
How does this not work out for both you and clarity?
this is so retarded it hurts me to read it.
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the extremely obvious counter-argument being "why not kill someone townie looking and mislynch the mislynch"
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On October 08 2013 09:43 Holyflare wrote:
Clarity sheeps everything you say, you think he is towny, etc etc. All he has to do is say - let's kill x - and you'd both do it, that's why he's most likely to keep you around. Also vice versa for you keeping clarity around.
? that makes no sense because mafia don't care who get lynched as long as it's not themselves.
come on already. clarity and i don't need to 'agree' on who to kill as long as it isn't whoever isn't the mafia.
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because i could just mislynch oats and now i can't? are you this braindead?
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i think you're on some really hard drugs if you don't think oats was a prime lynch candidate.
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and your whole scenario rests on the assumption that either me or clarity would try to make oats look townier instead of having him as a mislynch? why?
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i don't see much point arguing this with you any further, because at best you seem to be having a complete logical breakdown.
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how does that look great ?????? what's wrong with you??
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IT'S REMOVING A PRIME MISLYNCH FOR NO REASON. CHRIST.
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if your argument is "this dude who is scummy to most of the game is magically going to look townie later" then yeah, i think we're done.
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i hope you've been toking a big one, my dear.
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the funny thing is you're making the kill make sense from anyone's perspective with how you've been talking about it.
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because it's made you go completely irrational, which if you're townie (which i'm pretty sure you are) is good for anyone if they're mafia :/
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meh. the thing is, if dirk does is actually somehow town, then the kill IS irrational in some way.
so i'm kinda shouting at you for crazy theories, but in dirktown scenario, one of the crazy theories somewhere would be correct.
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if dirk is mafia the kill is irrational
so basically it's irrational and i'm shouting at you for being irrational, which normally makes sense but this isn't a rational situation
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no, the kill is still totally irrational because oats is the other "set" mislynch, that's the entire point.
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the net of it is, it makes no sense for anyone not-dirk-oats to kill into dirk-oats because they are the most likely mislynches
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this might be one of the all-time great mafia conversations i've had
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thanks dirk, you made it easy on a bro
##Vote: Dirkzor
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Marv knew that Oats would get lynched today if he killed me in the night and when Oats flipped town he would be the lynch day 4.
Risen, what the fuck are you smoking?
Just because this was going on in your little head, doesn't mean it was going on in the thread.
Have people gone mad?
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I swear in all the games I play with Risen, he's not actually playing the same game as I am. It's pretty remarkable.
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##unvote
been hedging your bets a lot the last couple of days, haven't you Risen?
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Thing is, Risen, I've been trying to establish people as town or not, and you're just going on "orders of scumminess"
You've been on my ass for at least two cycles now, and yet I was never your 'first' choice, which means I should have been town to you since a long time ago.
This really stinks.
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you have 27 pages of behavioural content to show you otherwise though.
That should be enough.
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btw, I have already pointed out the weirdness from Risen's perspective. but people didn't seem to think it was important.
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thing is, I don't see how you possibly expected to win the 1v1 with me today... it makes no sense.
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Dirk, do me a favour and do a little thought exercise.
I'm going to assume you're calling yourself town, and you have to assume I'm town.
How do you think the NK changes the course of things? Example question: if you flipped town, does it make it more likely I'd get lynched d4 than in other nightkill scenarios last night?
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On October 08 2013 16:28 Dirkzor wrote:
Risen is to consistent but his thought fits a townperson. Starts by voting sloosh (the other wagon at the time) to save himself. Would do as either alignment. See Rayn being pushed - votes Rayn. Now why do this if they are scumbuddies? He was already on town sloosh. He sees the rayn wagon is a Tandembike and votes sloosh again to consolidate. In the mean time HF is voting rayn. Risen is "Hey rayn can get killed" and votes him. The timeline fits. I can't see why he would vote back and forth as scum when he had a good reason just to vote sloosh and be done with it. Not scum
To the bold: because he has to, he made a case on him earlier in the day. He can't NOT vote for rayn.
To the underline: he unvotes his "main scumread" to 'consolidate' on rayn. Does Risen seem like the consolidate-y sort to you? Answer me that seriously. Or does he just go after who he thinks is mafia? Go read his filter in Noir. He's like "fuck it, these guys are mafia and i don't give a fuck what any of you say"
To the second bolded: Again, he can't NOT vote for rayn after the case he made earlier in the day.
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I've been Risen's clear "second" scumread behind Oats, and yet somehow the play makes enough sense coming from you that you are now his main scumread?
Explain that to me Dirkzor.
Do you think that the nightkill makes enough sense coming from you that Risen would override his scumread on me and vote for you?
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ugh, it's still ridiculous.
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On October 08 2013 18:37 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 18:26 marvellosity wrote:
I've been Risen's clear "second" scumread behind Oats, and yet somehow the play makes enough sense coming from you that you are now his main scumread?
Explain that to me Dirkzor.
Do you think that the nightkill makes enough sense coming from you that Risen would override his scumread on me and vote for you? I'm not sure Risen had you pegged as his 2nd scumread. Have to look that up. I don't think the NK makes sense coming from anybody so I can't explain that to you. It makes just as little sense coming from me as it does coming from you or Risen.
how the fuck have you missed that?
that's really dodgy. it's almost all he's talked about.
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that's really bad Dirk.
you would know this if you'd seriously looked into anyone recently.
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##Vote: Dirkzor
you've not been reading the thread.
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so you just managed to miss the argument Risen had with me yesterday, specifically about the fact that I was his 2nd scumread behind Oats and I was calling that out?
ok.
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like literally EVERY RISEN POST it's "oats and marv" "oats and marv" "oats and marv"
christ
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On October 08 2013 18:58 Dirkzor wrote:
And yeah you are right about Risen being on your ass. I forgot. My memery is shit. .
On October 08 2013 18:26 marvellosity wrote:
I've been Risen's clear "second" scumread behind Oats, and yet somehow the play makes enough sense coming from you that you are now his main scumread?
Explain that to me Dirkzor.
Do you think that the nightkill makes enough sense coming from you that Risen would override his scumread on me and vote for you?
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On October 08 2013 18:57 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 18:22 marvellosity wrote:
Dirk, do me a favour and do a little thought exercise.
I'm going to assume you're calling yourself town, and you have to assume I'm town.
How do you think the NK changes the course of things? Example question: if you flipped town, does it make it more likely I'd get lynched d4 than in other nightkill scenarios last night? Btw that only works if you are town. When I flip town doesn't actually change peoples view of you, does it? If you are scum, which you are, lynching me or Risen is a good play. NK HF or clarity and lynch the other dude. Perfect.
Pretty clearly as I said in this scenario that we're both town.
Reading is hard, amirite? :o
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So basically you're refusing to discuss the game and scenarios because you just want to blindly call me mafia?
That's really helpful Dirk.
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the fact you're not even willing to discuss Risen with me is pretty mindboggling tbh.
then again i was mindboggled when slOosh afked day 2 as well.
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you've not answered the question i've put to you twice now.
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On October 08 2013 18:58 Dirkzor wrote:
And yeah you are right about Risen being on your ass. I forgot. My memery is shit. .
On October 08 2013 18:26 marvellosity wrote:
I've been Risen's clear "second" scumread behind Oats, and yet somehow the play makes enough sense coming from you that you are now his main scumread?
Explain that to me Dirkzor.
Do you think that the nightkill makes enough sense coming from you that Risen would override his scumread on me and vote for you?
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On October 08 2013 19:14 Dirkzor wrote:
Never said that. There is just no reason to say "imagine I'm town". You should rather convince me why someone else would do something if they were scum. Like Risen NK his own target or voting rayn D1. And so far you haven't.
I don't have to convince you of shit, i'm just trying to talk about stuff with you.
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In fact I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with that, but never mind that, eh?
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On October 08 2013 19:20 Dirkzor wrote:
I already answered that. The NK doesn't make sense in my head coming from anyone. So no. But it also doesn't make sense that you were 100% with me on the sloosh lynch and now I'm scum. As scum I would like to keep as many ??-players around as possible. That means I would never NK oats.
That literally does not answer the question.
Do you think it is reasonable that I was Risen's *CLEAR* 2nd scumread after Oats, and his argument is that the nightkill does make enough sense coming from you that he is now willing to override his scumread on me and vote for you?
Risen thinks the nightkill makes enough sense coming from you that he's willing to vote for you over me.
You say that the nightkill makes no sense coming from you.
See the disconnect here?
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On October 08 2013 19:21 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 19:16 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 19:14 Dirkzor wrote:
Never said that. There is just no reason to say "imagine I'm town". You should rather convince me why someone else would do something if they were scum. Like Risen NK his own target or voting rayn D1. And so far you haven't. I don't have to convince you of shit, i'm just trying to talk about stuff with you. If you are town and you want to win you kinda need to. I'm town so you'll need my vote at some point.
this makes zero sense. this isn't lylo.
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I don't understand why you're so willing to accept Risen's argument that the nightkill makes sense from you and therefore he is voting for you.
Why are you so willing to accept that?
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Shouldn't you be suspicious as fuck that someone who wasn't suspicious of you wants to kill you solely because of the Oats nightkill? seriously???
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So you're ok that Risen is voting you on reasoning that makes no sense, ya?
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that doesn't ring any alarm bells, that's all fine? a townie is voting you on reasoning that makes no sense is hunky dory, yes?
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you're dying today, i'm only having this conversation to see if i'm wrong about wanting to kill you.
doesn't look like it.
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like I can't rationalise how you didn't take one bit of issue with Risen's vote.
that doesn't make sense to me.
if I'm a townie and i'm being voted for for clearly terrible reasons, I'm up in arms about that shit.
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cmon Clarity, that's cheap.
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he also EBWOPed it straight after...
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do you have no comments on what I talked about with him?
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On October 08 2013 20:05 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 20:04 marvellosity wrote:
do you have no comments on what I talked about with him? Am reading it now. Glanced over it honestly. Not sure what to make of you giving him a lifeline and him refusing it.
I interpret it this way: that he's going to go balls after me, and not pass comment or suspicion on anyone else. Then say I somehow get lynched today (???) and flip town, he'll be like "oops" and "oh look, Risen's vote on me makes zero sense, it must be him!"
I dunno.
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On October 08 2013 20:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
Actually the way holy is talking about this nk is really distressing but I'm just plugging my ears and going lalalalala for now.
completely agreed.
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I'm just going to declare you town for sure, Clarity, you say things I think and haven't written too often.
Like I practically wouldn't have put it any other way if I'd actually wrote it myself.
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I still don't get how Risen rationalised a Dirk lynch out of it though.
I genuinely find that really weird. Even more bizarre is Dirk not giving a fuck about it though.
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it's so weird though. Risen's basically been after me ever since my BH meltdown.
And yet the nightkill now makes enough sense from Dirk's perspective that I'm townier than him?
it's just so ????????????????? to me.
I mean we literally argued for several posts yesterday about how I was *clearly* the 2nd scummiest player in the game after Oats. And the Oats kill overturns that? I just don't understand at all.
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On October 08 2013 20:45 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 20:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
cmon Clarity, that's cheap. He said it after making two giant posts explaining things. Like I really don't care if it's cheap. It is cheap. And if you read my two post nothing they contain are really from anything after D1 lynch.
ignoring more than half the game isn't a point in your favour, my love.
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On October 08 2013 22:17 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 19:28 marvellosity wrote:
Shouldn't you be suspicious as fuck that someone who wasn't suspicious of you wants to kill you solely because of the Oats nightkill? seriously??? Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 10:06 marvellosity wrote:
the net of it is, it makes no sense for anyone not-dirk-oats to kill into dirk-oats because they are the most likely mislynches but now this doesn't count for risen or what? (Sorry about last night I was more than out of it)
you're missing my point because i don't understand your query.
my issue is that Risen is using the nk as a reason to be more suspicious of Dirk over me, when I can't see how that makes sense.
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oh, I see what you mean. In my second quote, it doesn't make sense for Dirk either. I was just talking about that specific scenario.
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no, i wasn't saying that, although i can see how it looks in that specific quote that it does.
at the time i was arguing against you calling me or clarity mafia for it, so i was speaking in simple terms
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like, say Dirk's plan is to go 1v1 with me today.
he wins that and i flip. then what?
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On October 08 2013 23:00 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 22:27 marvellosity wrote:
like, say Dirk's plan is to go 1v1 with me today.
he wins that and i flip. then what? We win. Or if I'm completely off and you flip town most likely I'm dead and town loose. Can't you see how insane it is for me to go 1v1 with you if I'm scum.
Can't you see how insane it is for me to kill off a potential mislynch who also happened to have a strong townread on me?
Those arguments don't fly, sweetcheeks.
The fact i'm willing to talk about these things at all should tell you something. But apparently it doesn't.
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On October 08 2013 23:02 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 20:54 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 20:45 Dirkzor wrote:On October 08 2013 20:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
cmon Clarity, that's cheap. He said it after making two giant posts explaining things. Like I really don't care if it's cheap. It is cheap. And if you read my two post nothing they contain are really from anything after D1 lynch. ignoring more than half the game isn't a point in your favour, my love. I just focus my scumhunting on day1 becase thats the day that produced the most. Is that wrong?
yes, you focus on everything.
also, you don't mean "day 1" because as you yourself has said, I was very pro-town for the large majority of day 1. You are in fact taking about a 2 hour period of the 140 hours that this game has been going.
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On October 08 2013 23:03 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:01 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 23:00 Dirkzor wrote:On October 08 2013 22:27 marvellosity wrote:
like, say Dirk's plan is to go 1v1 with me today.
he wins that and i flip. then what? We win. Or if I'm completely off and you flip town most likely I'm dead and town loose. Can't you see how insane it is for me to go 1v1 with you if I'm scum. Can't you see how insane it is for me to kill off a potential mislynch who also happened to have a strong townread on me? Those arguments don't fly, sweetcheeks. The fact i'm willing to talk about these things at all should tell you something. But apparently it doesn't. Thats what I've been saying all along. I doesn't make sense for anyone to kill Oats. Whoever did it had a plan with the move. (You said so yourself) I don't want to try and read into what that move means when I don't know. So I largely disregard it and focus on other areas of the game that makes more sense. Like D1 lynch
Then why are you asking me how insane it is to go 1v1 with me? It's a pointless question because everything can be reduced to something irrational.
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On October 08 2013 23:05 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:02 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 23:02 Dirkzor wrote:On October 08 2013 20:54 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 20:45 Dirkzor wrote:On October 08 2013 20:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
cmon Clarity, that's cheap. He said it after making two giant posts explaining things. Like I really don't care if it's cheap. It is cheap. And if you read my two post nothing they contain are really from anything after D1 lynch. ignoring more than half the game isn't a point in your favour, my love. I just focus my scumhunting on day1 becase thats the day that produced the most. Is that wrong? yes, you focus on everything. also, you don't mean "day 1" because as you yourself has said, I was very pro-town for the large majority of day 1. You are in fact taking about a 2 hour period of the 140 hours that this game has been going. And you have only focused on the 2hours prior to present this entire game.
Now you're just saying things. How is this in any way true?
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I'm agreeing it was stupid, that's how I fucking phrased it.
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That's not how I've played this game, and it's not how I've played a lot of my towngames. I play off interactions and I go back and check things and I come to conclusions.
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P.S. I made the case on you Day 1
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On October 08 2013 23:11 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:P.S. I made the case on you Day 1 No you didn't. You voted me because of one post and asked a lot of question. Then you found me not scum and then proceeded to hop on/off about me the rest of the day..
lmao. this is hilarious.
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are you really so bad at mafia that you don't realise a case doesn't have to be a long consolidated post with quotes?
are you genuinely that awful?
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On October 08 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity Open your eyes and think for a moment that Marv isn't town. Read his filter from D1.
that filter that you repeatedly stressed was pro-town before the lynch?
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no, I'm disregarding you because you're terrible.
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On October 08 2013 23:17 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:13 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity Open your eyes and think for a moment that Marv isn't town. Read his filter from D1. that filter that you repeatedly stressed was pro-town before the lynch? Repeatedly?! That pulling a stretch. I said it once, maybe twice. Also we can't all be town can we? HF looks town, Clarity Looks town, Risen looks town. Call it confirmation bias.
Scummy confirmation bias, because you're not actually trying to solve the game, you're just pummelling away.
On October 07 2013 18:34 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity I agree. Marv is somewhere nagging... I have a pretty good town read, but still...
On October 08 2013 02:40 Dirkzor wrote:
I've had a pretty good town read on marv most of the game and don't believe Risen made his case on Rayn as scumbuddy. That leaves Oats. At this point in the game Oats hadn't really done anything (imo) to warrent such a strong no-lynch comment which makes it stand out to me.
This is just my thoughts loudly when I saw it... (maybe because I already think oats is scum I make things fit... anyway)
"Read marv's filter from day 1" you ask Clarity.
"marv is somewhere nagging" - such rubbish.
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I was literally willing to hear you out a lot.
Until you showed zero interest in Risen voting for a "townie" (you)
the fact you don't care about that is unbelievable.
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On October 08 2013 23:26 Dirkzor wrote:
Show me where else Risen is scum.
And don't say D1 lynch with his sloosh/rayn vote switches. I've explained that I disagree and I find it a town thing to do.
It's literally not the point. You just accept the vote as fine and normal.
That's NOT a townie reaction.
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you didn't ONCE ask Risen why he's voting for you, or ask him to change his mind...
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On October 08 2013 23:25 Dirkzor wrote:
I also had A super good scumread on Sloosh and see where that got us... My priority have been (since D1) have been Sloosh, Oats, You.
I knew I would loose a straight up discussion with you, but that won't stop me trying. When I flip town because you will eventually convince the rest that I'm scum I'll hope they will listen.
They would listen to you because you were so right on slOosh and Oats you mean? lololololololz
by the way, I don't need to convince the rest, I could just sit back on my laurels.
The only reason I'm arguing with you is because I give a fuck about solving the game. But you're either too dumb or too scum to understand this.
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On October 08 2013 23:28 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity Open your eyes and think for a moment that Marv isn't town. Read his filter from D1. If you think that wasn't the first thing I did after d1 you are wrong Then you tell me what Marv did D1? I'll summrize it if you want but I'd rather you(Or HF/Risen) read and posted what marv actually did D1. Explain his fake Oats pressure. Explain his Sloosh vote sheeping thread sentiment. Explain his Risen voteswitch at the end. Explain his BH stunt.
fake oats pressure? sheeping thread sentiment? are you demented?
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On October 08 2013 23:30 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:27 marvellosity wrote:
you didn't ONCE ask Risen why he's voting for you, or ask him to change his mind... What do you want me to do? "Oh Risen btw, could you not vote me?" I'm giving him a better alternative with you. That's my best and only defence. I can't defend against "Maybe dirk killed oats because blah blah" because it doesn't make sense anyway so there is no rational defence?!
I expect someone to care when they're being voted for terribad reasons.
Instead you've decided to tunnel one player and ignore 95% of the game.
Nice job you're doing if you're town bro.
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stop being terrible and i'll stop saying it
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On October 08 2013 23:28 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity Open your eyes and think for a moment that Marv isn't town. Read his filter from D1. If you think that wasn't the first thing I did after d1 you are wrong Then you tell me what Marv did D1? I'll summrize it if you want but I'd rather you(Or HF/Risen) read and posted what marv actually did D1. Explain his fake Oats pressure. Explain his Sloosh vote sheeping thread sentiment. Explain his Risen voteswitch at the end. Explain his BH stunt.
so while i'm semi-afk for 20 minutes right at the lynch, and sloosh and rayn are vying for votes, I decide not to vote for slOosh to secure a majority?
After Risen votes for slOosh, I just leave my vote on Risen instead of re-securing slOosh, and instead I let my scumbuddy die? That whole argument is trash
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On October 08 2013 23:39 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity it's not about each individual thing he have done. They have all been just enough to look like Town marv pressuring or asking the right question. But have you seen marv push for any lynch for real? no!
He puts pressure on me. I answer and he backs of.
He puts pressure on Oats: Oats answer and he backs of.
You and I find sloosh scummy. He votes with nothing more then "I agree". No follow up.
He vote BH because "lols" (I still fairly believe he did that because he truely don't like BH btw)
Back to sloosh.
Then suddenly: Risen vote! Why? no one knows and noone cared at the time.
Risen was the non-sloosh option at the time before I got distracted. that's pretty simple, and you would KNOW THIS IF YOU RE-READ THE DAY 1 LYNCH.
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On October 08 2013 23:41 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:35 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 23:28 Dirkzor wrote:On October 08 2013 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 08 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity Open your eyes and think for a moment that Marv isn't town. Read his filter from D1. If you think that wasn't the first thing I did after d1 you are wrong Then you tell me what Marv did D1? I'll summrize it if you want but I'd rather you(Or HF/Risen) read and posted what marv actually did D1. Explain his fake Oats pressure. Explain his Sloosh vote sheeping thread sentiment. Explain his Risen voteswitch at the end. Explain his BH stunt. so while i'm semi-afk for 20 minutes right at the lynch, and sloosh and rayn are vying for votes, I decide not to vote for slOosh to secure a majority? After Risen votes for slOosh, I just leave my vote on Risen instead of re-securing slOosh, and instead I let my scumbuddy die? That whole argument is trash Rayn was already in the thread at this point and BH was screaming for a rayn lynch. Maybe you didn't want to put your fingerprint on anything right then and there.
rofl
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On October 08 2013 23:45 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 23:40 marvellosity wrote:On October 08 2013 23:39 Dirkzor wrote:
Clarity it's not about each individual thing he have done. They have all been just enough to look like Town marv pressuring or asking the right question. But have you seen marv push for any lynch for real? no!
He puts pressure on me. I answer and he backs of.
He puts pressure on Oats: Oats answer and he backs of.
You and I find sloosh scummy. He votes with nothing more then "I agree". No follow up.
He vote BH because "lols" (I still fairly believe he did that because he truely don't like BH btw)
Back to sloosh.
Then suddenly: Risen vote! Why? no one knows and noone cared at the time. Risen was the non-sloosh option at the time before I got distracted. that's pretty simple, and you would KNOW THIS IF YOU RE-READ THE DAY 1 LYNCH. Why didn't you want to lycnh sloosh anymore?
you'd know this if you re-read the day 1 lynch.
why don't you tell me?
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like, why can i remember the events better than you even though your whole case is predicated on that period of the game?
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On October 08 2013 23:48 Dirkzor wrote:
Because his post looked genuine. Yeah I know. That was already after Clarity was leaning towards a risen lynch. See following thread sentiment.
I led thread sentiment on you. I led my own sentiment on Oats. Then I agreed on slOosh.
Am I literally supposed to lead everything?
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I'm glad we had this conversation, Dirk, it's made me much more convinced about today <3
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I attacked you repeatedly and got 3-4 votes on you.
Now you're just flat out lying.
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On October 08 2013 23:57 Clarity_nl wrote:
Man if holyflare is somehow scum, town is handing him the victory by looking fucking awful.
holyflare had the least reason of all to kill oats though, i think
i do wish he'd post more tho.
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On October 08 2013 23:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
No one had reason to kill oats.
Like, it has to be a desperation play which means it's dirk.... right?!?
But Holy had the *least* reason.
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like no-one bats an eyelid if you die and i die in the next two nights and Holy is alive at lylo. that's what i'm basing that statement on
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dunno whether to laugh or cry about this game :D
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good luck in my monstrosity of a filter though <3
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aww
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Have you been taking tips from Oats?
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This is the only game in history where apparently
"oh you think someone is mafia? let's lynch you instead!" seems to genuinely be a thing.
Mindboggling.
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Please enlighten me why you want to lynch me? Do you think I'm mafia?
If you think I'm mafia, please vote for me.
If you don't think I'm mafia, why are you being a moron?
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On October 09 2013 00:47 marvellosity wrote:
Please enlighten me why you want to lynch me? Do you think I'm mafia?
If you think I'm mafia, please vote for me.
If you don't think I'm mafia, why are you being a moron?
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is "vote for who you think is mafia" suddenly a foreign concept?
Did I miss some massive meta shift in the last few days that passed me by completely?
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On October 09 2013 01:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 00:52 marvellosity wrote:
is "vote for who you think is mafia" suddenly a foreign concept?
Did I miss some massive meta shift in the last few days that passed me by completely? Suspicious behaviour is not the same as being mafia. You need to look at all the facts.
you're suggesting i haven't?
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On October 09 2013 01:08 Holyflare wrote:
You may have the traits of a towny but there is always that lingering suspicious nature about you. You were SO SURE about sloosh that when people (oats, risen, dirk etc.) were doing extra scum hunting that you thought it was funny and wouldn't participate. You effectively did not participate in an entire day because you "thought the game was solved". Here we are day 3, and the same scenario is coming down.
The only reason that oats could be killed was to add further speculation about dirkzor making a desperation move, pretty simple play to make if you think about it coming from you it lets you sit back for an entire day again and not have to do anything but vote for dirkzor. This means that you don't have to do even more extra scum hunting compared to if you left oats alive. Oats was looking for scum, even through the trolling, he was pretty much the only one looking. Now, you can conveniently eliminate another day and as you've painted risen as your next target I presume he will be your choice for the day after. Everytime someone so much as mentions the word marv and scum in a sentence you flip out about how you are "the most town, and have progressed us through most of the game".
Now, I'm not saying you are scum, I'm not saying you aren't. Of course I will filter dive you and see whether these feels are baseless or not. This is just a theory after all.
you think all i've done is "sit back" today? and last night?
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P.S. as you're a fan of meta, you should meta me.
Almost everything you say and bring up is true, but it's something I exhibit constantly in my towngames and rarely if at all in my mafia games.
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On October 09 2013 01:21 Holyflare wrote:
How does clarity play as scum/town by the way?
First of all, a quote from a towngame of mine, read the nested quotes. Just for giggles
On May 28 2013 23:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 23:54 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 28 2013 23:46 marvellosity wrote:
s0lstice, don't waste your time writing a case on me, it'll be genuinely terrible. Lol this fucking attitude marv. Nothing but shutting people down all game, how is this not suspicious? why don't you just read any of my many games in the universe ever?
Clarity, that's a good question. He was always terrible at mafia until Aperture when suddenly he busted out all the moves and suddenly he was a posting demon.
My townread on him essentially comes from the fact he's been thinking the same things as me all game long. Sometimes he says things first, sometimes I do. If he's mafia then... fuck, he's done a good thing of saying exactly the things i'm thinking. e.g. the comment about your conversation with me last night
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On October 09 2013 01:24 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 01:21 Holyflare wrote:
How does clarity play as scum/town by the way? Well, before aperture 2 I played scum obviously. Then aperture I did decently so I guess if you want to look at my current scum meta it would be aperture 2 episode 2. Erm... My towngame is basically how I've been playing this game. Including the "no, let's not switch to the scum last minute" shouting that is becoming a trend with me
I can confirm Clarity does this as town.
He berated town for lynching mafia with last minute shenannies in Mario Mafia I believe.
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For all my ranting at BH, I do enjoy his last minute shenannies :/
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it's not scummy for me to say i'm town and to call other people bad though.
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yeah but i don't really mind if you're annoyed.
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I'm a wellknown hypocrite
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I'm well aware of my many flaws, I just struggle to fix them because when I'm under pressure as town I give in.
I try to mimic that when I'm under pressure as mafia, but see for example GSL 3, I struggle to do so at all convincingly.
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like, it's so easy to call people bad when you know you're right, and it's much harder to do it for a sustained period when you know you're wrong and they're right :/
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On October 09 2013 01:43 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 01:40 marvellosity wrote:
like, it's so easy to call people bad when you know you're right, and it's much harder to do it for a sustained period when you know you're wrong and they're right :/ Well you voting me is a known wrong for me... so where does that leaves us?
it leaves me at not believing you because you've not been thinking about the game at all today.
you've referenced day 1 and the day 1 lynch numerous times and either forgotten things or been wrong about them.
Just see Clarity's posts attacking you for that, never mind my own.
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no, see Clarity's posts showing you haven't read and/or you're lying, never mind my own.
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he literally laughed at you for being so twisty and lying
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It's nothing to do with reason, it's to do with you blatantly misrepresenting things and not remembering things you've apparently read.
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On October 09 2013 01:55 Dirkzor wrote:
I don't blatantly misrepresent things and you know it. I set it up as if you are scum and there is nothing wrong with that because you are scum.
You claim you pushed my lynch, but you never really. You made a few questions and people followed you. You then proceed to back of because of my answer. Same with oats. You then ended up sheeping to first Sloosh and then Risen. No marks left on D1. Good job scum marv.
if you're town you're on hard drugs
i don't think you're on hard drugs
ergo you're mafia
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saying "and I know it" when I wasn't the only one pointing it out is totally hilarious btw.
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kinda disappointed holy just left things hanging yesterday. seems pretty weak. and no Risen either :<
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LOL. You're a qtie. I think we'll be ok though. I can't believe Dirk flips town after his twisty twisty.
Then again, I couldn't believe slOosh would flip town after giving up. I was sure he was just playing out because it was lame to concede :/
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why are you so sure i'm town again lol? I'm not sure *I'm* that sure I'm town ^_^
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yeah that's fair enough. Good answer
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I need to state categorically out of game sometime that I'd never let myself do that as mafia. Just so I can quote it in games like these. Because I've played *so* *many* *games* now (50 give or take!) where it's true (lose my shit as town sometimes, never as mafia) that it should basically just be a given by now :/
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Well, duh. But mafia gets me all riled up. I don't *choose* to do it, I just get super pissed off at some things sometimes. Like trying to have a rational debate with someone and they just say "no" or "just because". Fucking annoying way of playing.
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Does marv ever respond to anyone like that? "Ups maybe I was wrong, i'll check"? Not ever.
Yes, I do actually. For example, here's s0lstice being suspicious of me for a conciliatory tone:
On May 18 2013 13:27 s0Lstice wrote:It'd be sputnik, and I'd feel ok about it. What you were saying about Marv and his descent from rage was compelling though. Something caught my eye while reading the whole Marv/Dandel exchange Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 09:03 marvellosity wrote:
anyways, i gotta go to bed.
apologies to anyone i riled and vice versa, but i think it came in useful. i think we have some really good targets for tomorrow. the apology....as Marv has done this before, I wondered if he ever has apologized for it. If he has done this before but never really showed any sign of guilt, then that is something. I've been digging through personality to see. Need to look at his scum games as well, its a fat wad of meta to get through. Still though, food for thought.
He argues with sloosh about me here: link but only after sloosh brings it up.
This is a blatant lie. Reference: the end of page 1/start of page 2 of my filter where I make several posts attacking Dirkzor.
Changing his opinion based on clarity's sentiment. First its "Sloosh looks good up until conclusion clarity" then suddenly his firsts post are weak because clarity said so. Then sloosh looks bad.
Why is listening to other people scummy again?
Vote on oats: Link
After that a few back and forth questions that doesn't prove either way: link but he still ends up unvoting.
So I put pressure on someone and I'm happy with the answers. Why is that scummy? You'd prefer I tunnelled Oats the townie, would you?
Also note the small things that Marv find weird/scummy but no reaction with vote like with me or oats.
I'm supposed to vote every time I find something weird? Are you on drugs?
Marv then votes sloosh. He doesn't push this lynch at all.
We had a majority on slOosh. The entire reason I got mad at BH was because he was defending slOosh. Your argument is awful.
Short after: link he posts his thought about everyone. Isn't this a perfect time to re-insert that he wants sloosh to be lynched? He doesn't even mention him.
Firstly I do mention him, secondly why do I need to state my ground on someone I'm voting? I obviously think they're mafia.
He puts light pressure on people and backs off. He ask a lot of question and point of stuff, but he never follow through.
Thanks for describing many of my towngames, you're a babe. Second half of the sentence is just a lie.
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Your entire case is "why is marv playing town like he usually plays town"
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because he was convinced slOosh was mafia, obviously.
before that my day 1 filter actually looked pretty pro-town, as he said on more than one occasion.
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and i'm so low content he even used 2 of my analysis posts in his case on slOosh
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Here's a case on me. Look familiar?
On January 04 2013 20:24 Palmar wrote:I am here to prove Marvellosity is scum
Three things make marvellosity scum: - Lack of effort
- No scumreads
- General apathy about who should be lynched
For reference, here is is filter. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=140487¤tpage=All
Marv isn't a normal player, he's not going to scumslip and get owned by some woopsie, but he can nevertheless be figured out as scum quite easily. You just have to look beyond the basics. Let's start with the first one. I know I'm not one to speak this game but Marv has almost no post of any significance in the game. Literally his entire filter for the first few pages is a bunch of one-liners with little or no opinions in them. He explains my motives at length in one post here linky!. But that's about the only content he posted early in the game. I want to take you guys back to a previous game of his as town to give you the comparison. Compare this to his opening in Rock Band mafia where he was town Clicky!Right off the Bat marv is giving detailed reasonings of his thought process and trying to get people to listen to him. That's not the case this game. ---- The second point is that Marvellosity isn't doing anything to paint people scum. I am literally going to list up every indication of wanting to lynch someone or attempting to scumhunt Marvellosity has made. I'm leaving out random loaded questions towards people though. Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 08:36 marvellosity wrote:
I'm ok with policy lynching kush.
if he's going to be a dick he should just fucking die. Policy lynch (that's the only time he ever mentions kush). Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 00:06 marvellosity wrote:On January 04 2013 00:01 Vivax wrote:
I actually think I am doing a decent job. My only problem is that I need to continue the list and then make proper reads from it. But I am busy doing stoichiometry exercises before lessons begin again, I'll obey and post them too if Palmar orders.
I'd be quite content to kill tube. I'm not sure about this Bugs thing, I don't have that prejudice against him. So I learnt a new word today. Anyway, I agree with Adam on Clarity. In both Hero and Mario mafia where Clarity was town, he came basically straight out the gate finding things suspicious (jay, and s&b's VT 'slip' respectively). In his only scum game he struggled to get early scumreads, much like here. Clarity isn't aggressively questioning anyone to try to get scumreads, given he doesn't have any so far, either. He chose to mention Palmar's video thing which seemed a total non-thing to mention, especially as it had been and gone. Sheeping on Adam's case on clarity, without any later attempts at pushing anything in that direction, except of course this post here. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 05:02 marvellosity wrote:On January 04 2013 05:01 HiroPro wrote:
only Palmar or do you have someone else you would lynch? Palmar seems a fun lynch. Or MZ, or Clarity, or Cheesecake. BC is a little summarise-y for my liking too, but i don't wanna lynch him today. That's it. Aside from him trying to claim he has some "extra knowledge" about how I play, which I kinda thought was true but clearly isn't the case if he's apathetic/dumb enough to actually want to lynch me today, that's all he's done so far this game. A huge reason I think marvellosity is scum is that he's not scumhunting. He hasn't posted any reasons for any of his reads, his sole aggression is against me for "trolling". To be perfectly honest it's so easy to attack me that marv hardly bothers, he simply writes a bunch of shit about how I'm capable of doing all these things as either alignment, and then says "I've had enough of you" and votes me. That's his entire case, and he sees no reason to push any other case or even discuss anyone else at length. I want you all to go and read marv's filter and look at how much he has talked about other people than myself. It's almost not there. Which leads me to point number 3 ---- Marv seems to not care at all who gets lynched. He kinda wants to lynch me it seems based on my actions early game, but he's not really pushing it. He's not actively trying to get people to lynch me, he doesn't even seem to particularly care if people agree with him, which is a big red flag for me. If he genuinely thinks I'm scum, shouldn't he be pushing this read of his? When asked he hardly even answers: Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 06:41 marvellosity wrote:On January 04 2013 06:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So many massive epeenz over compensating lol.
Marv answer me. i've talked enough about Palmar in my filter, I don't need to say anything more right now. This enough simply being the explanation post of his that I already linked previously in this case, and then this thing here: Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 11:12 marvellosity wrote:On January 03 2013 10:51 supersoft wrote:On January 03 2013 08:48 marvellosity wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2013 08:45 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 08:42 marvellosity wrote:On January 03 2013 08:40 yamato77 wrote:
Outspoken player =/= scum. Palmar is overly active and has good reasons for the policy lynch.
Marv you know better so you starting this Palmar is scum stuff is fishy. I just knew you'd come into the thread saying something like this. Palmar is not a "normal" player that you can attribute your stupid heuristics to. So then how does him pushing this lynch make him scum, Marv? Enlighten me, O Mighty One. because he's trolling and his discussions on wbg didn't actually move the thread forward. There was no point to anything he did. You come in telling me outspoken player isn't scum when you know I just finished a game as scum with a 20+ page filter. Cmon man. Of course did this discussion move the thread forward... Palmar does this all the time to start a discussion. Every time people step up and accuse him for that. It's just an icebreaker. Palmar knows that a wbg lynch isnt going to happen. Especially if he pushes him 20minutes after the game has started. I am thinking of a game where palmar claimed dayvig and aimed at people to get the game going. No idea what game that was... Ah yeah and he was town... and i explained the exact same thing... Having a deja vu right now... Of course you might be right, I don't know yet. Then again I've played with Palmar 5 or 6 times in the last half a year or something and you haven't, so maybe I have some extra knowledge ;o Probably we just wait to see how he carries on playing. Maybe you get a townread of what he posted so far, I definitely don't. He can 'get the game going' as mafia too, for example Liar Game where he made his funny voting plan and called himself King etc. Funny that players like syllo saw him town for quite a few cycles that game and he wasn't And what follows is basically him saying I can do a lot of things as either alignment. Marv knows that if I want to I won't get lynched today, and assuming he's scum he also knows that I am town and will not allow myself to be lynched like that. So it's a safe push and a good long-term tunnel. Once again. Marv is not actively trying to lynch me, he's perfectly fine with sitting back and not doing anything. Apathetic Marv is scum Marv. ##Vote Marvellosity
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Now I'll list all the cases people have been able to make about scum-marv on Day 1:
On no time ever did anyone write:
Any case on scum-marv's day 1 because it always looks too good, too clean.
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On October 09 2013 20:39 Clarity_nl wrote:Yeah this is silly. As marv pointed out we had a majority so we were basically waiting for: a) Sloosh to get lynched; or b) Something to happen No need to push someone who has a majority unless sentiment is moving away from the lynchtarget, which it wasn't. Like, it's another example of you just reading the first 8 pages of marv's filter and calling things scummy, when in context they are not. Townies do this too, however.... That said, marv's follow up on dirk vote day 1 was fine. He voted you because your opening post was scummy. Then when asked to explain your vote you were having issues so his vote was still on you, then when you were being consistently terrible in your defense you seemed genuine and he unvoted (and explained). At no point did I wonder "why is marv's vote on dirk", and neither should you have.
On October 02 2013 22:57 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:49 marvellosity wrote:On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh... You wouldn't know you were drawing attention to yourself until someone picked up on it though. Let's move on a little. What do you make of my push on you? Does it feel warranted and townie-motivated? If not, why not? I like your push. Your questions and pokes have some reason behind them. It also helps me explain myself better. I felt maybe clarity made the obligated questioning of your vote and reason and then just jumped the "wagon"... But I'm really sure what to do with that. And I would argue that making a vote with your first post will always draw attention. Especially when there is so little to work with...
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Dirk, if you're town, you need to move off me. It should be obvious to you I'm town for several reasons.
1) your case on me merely describes my townplay, or is twisting things to be not how they were.
2) i'm simply not capable of posting this much as mafia. you don't have to believe me, you just have to check my games. My biggest ever mafia-filter in 20 pages over 5 cycles. I'm well over 30 now. I can't do it. My last mafia game, Desert, I gave up at the end of the 2nd cycle because I couldn't be fucked anymore.
3) I only ever lose my shit as town. This is verifiable.
4) Clarity and I have been speaking for each other all game, one before the other. We're thinking the same. We're probably the same alignment
5) I give way too much of a shit to be mafia
Your case is both terrible and horribly biased, and to repeat, merely describes my townplay. Look at Palmar's case against me there.
"Sheeping on Adam's case on clarity,"
" He hasn't posted any reasons for any of his reads,"
"That's his entire case, and he sees no reason to push any other case or even discuss anyone else at length."
"but he's not really pushing it. He's not actively trying to get people to lynch me"
Sheeping other people's opinions? No in depth reasons? Not pushing very hard? This is in fact Palmar describing town marvellosity in this game. I can bring up similar cases by DarthPunk on town-marv. What I cannot do is bring up similar cases on scum-marv, because they don't exist.
If you are town, you seriously need to reconsider what you're doing, right now.
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You need to read the post above very carefully and discuss it with me. I'm so clearly not mafia, and if you're town, you need to see that.
If you're mafia, feel free to continue the tunnel, however.
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It's not about "addressing concerns" anymore. It's about that if Dirk is town he should be able to see I'm town, and if he's town, then he's in a unique position of knowing he's not mafia, so we need to talk about anyone/everyone else.
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Risen and HF are totally irrelevant. Read, respond.
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This is about YOUR read on ME.
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he's not going to convince both of them, which is what makes this so stupid. He's going to die, not me
I don't *have* to have this fucking conversation with Dirk, I'm fucking having it because I'm desperate to get the right lynch.
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Seriously, when in the history of mafia on any site has the player with 10+ pages more filter than anyone else been mafia?
The answer is never. How anyone can think I'm mafia is just fucking retarded.
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I'm not special, because I'm not capable of it either, as is witness from all my mafia games i've ever played.
it's just ridiculous.
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I don't think he's town, I'm scared he's town.
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I'm just assuming that, for reasons that make no sense from either alignment, he's ignoring what's presented to him. Sigh.
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WHY ARE YOU NOT RESPONDING TO THINGS.
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Read. Fucking respond you useless pile of shite.
On October 09 2013 20:52 marvellosity wrote:
Dirk, if you're town, you need to move off me. It should be obvious to you I'm town for several reasons.
1) your case on me merely describes my townplay, or is twisting things to be not how they were.
2) i'm simply not capable of posting this much as mafia. you don't have to believe me, you just have to check my games. My biggest ever mafia-filter in 20 pages over 5 cycles. I'm well over 30 now. I can't do it. My last mafia game, Desert, I gave up at the end of the 2nd cycle because I couldn't be fucked anymore.
3) I only ever lose my shit as town. This is verifiable.
4) Clarity and I have been speaking for each other all game, one before the other. We're thinking the same. We're probably the same alignment
5) I give way too much of a shit to be mafia
Your case is both terrible and horribly biased, and to repeat, merely describes my townplay. Look at Palmar's case against me there.
"Sheeping on Adam's case on clarity,"
" He hasn't posted any reasons for any of his reads,"
"That's his entire case, and he sees no reason to push any other case or even discuss anyone else at length."
"but he's not really pushing it. He's not actively trying to get people to lynch me"
Sheeping other people's opinions? No in depth reasons? Not pushing very hard? This is in fact Palmar describing town marvellosity in this game. I can bring up similar cases by DarthPunk on town-marv. What I cannot do is bring up similar cases on scum-marv, because they don't exist.
If you are town, you seriously need to reconsider what you're doing, right now.
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if you're town, Dirk, I hope you never sign up to a game i play in ever again.
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I just don't understand the mentality of any player who won't engage.
it's just senseless, moronic, shittery.
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There is need. You're playing like a turd.
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I made a very clear post with easy to understand and grasp reasons of how I cannot be mafia, and you just refuse to engage with me.
You deserve all my bile.
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i literally don't even care what your alignment is anymore.
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my mind is blown
i need to take a break and think about this later because i'm not made to handle this
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Dirk, you being straight with me?
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your "i want to wait for risen and HF" almost makes this seem sort of plausible. this is totally outside of my comfort level as a mafia player though.
so now will you talk about Risen with me a little? You think it's possible after all that he would behave like he did around the day 1 lynch as mafia?
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I need to go back and check those voteswitches. And exactly what the votecounts were. Because you seem to think they made him look town, and I never really thought that. Maybe they do.
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BH's filter is tremendously useful for this lol
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you're actually right
risen looks much better than i remember
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On October 04 2013 08:49 Blazinghand wrote:
we are going to no lynch unless we consolidate
drik 1 - rayn
rayn 2 - risen, BH
slosh 3 - dirk oats holy
risen 3 - sloosh, clair, marv
bh 1 - rayn
Risen is on rayn
On October 04 2013 08:50 Blazinghand wrote:
we are going to no lynch unless we consolidate
drik 1 - rayn
rayn 1 - BH
slosh 4 - dirk oats holy, risen
risen 3 - sloosh, clair, marv
bh 1 - rayn
Risen moves to slOosh. This is what I thought looked bad. But again it's quite a bit just to save himself?
On October 04 2013 08:51 Blazinghand wrote:
we are going to no lynch unless we consolidate
drik 1 - rayn
rayn 2 - BH, risen
slosh 3 - dirk oats holy
risen 3 - sloosh, clair, marv
bh 1 - rayn
But here Risen has moved back to rayn. While Risen looks to be a good candidate still, and it looks like it's between risen and sloosh maybe.
Risen looks really good for this timing.
The only caveat is that rayn was acting like a super-retard, so maybe whoever the mafia is judged he was going to get lynched for being a retard?
Thoughts anyone?
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Dirk if you're actually town the last thing we need right now is you martyring.
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On October 09 2013 22:53 Clarity_nl wrote:Basically same conclusion like last time I looked at it: Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:52 Risen wrote:
No that's only two including me not enough
##unvote
##vote: sloosh This seems fair. If Risen is scum, why would he switch back to rayn after this? Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:53 Risen wrote:
My phone is dying wtf last swap back I'm driving ffs
##unvote
##vote: rayn There is an answer... and that was that I was shouting for a Risen lynch.... I don't know. If I ignore the rayn lynch then risen looks much much worse, though.
There's basically nothing in between those 2 posts though. Go read the actual bit where it happened....
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On October 09 2013 22:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
Have you ever played with scum Risen, marv?
Is he comfortable bussing? Or does he avoid it?
I've literally just been flicking through his LIII filter (found in database) - I played in that game (the game with his crazy switch that he won a mafia award for). He didn't buss much that I can find, he bussed Bill Murray but never to the lynch. Then again I'm not sure more than one mafia got lynched all game that game and it was a fullsized normal lol
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On October 09 2013 22:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
I did read the actual bit. But the impression I got from Risen was that he was only half there.
Especially since his last post is "I'm driving ffs"
sorry, i'm not quite sure what point you were making then?
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oh yeah, Clarity, we played with Risen as TheChronicler in Chrono Trigger...
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On October 09 2013 23:05 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:22 Risen wrote:
I'm stepping away. Lynch Oats, if town, lynch marv. That is all. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 14:43 Risen wrote:I will not be playing with Oats again. I can only think of this move making sense coming from marv, dirk, or Clarity because it makes no sense for HF to do it. HF has been riding his town cred since day 1 and wouldn't shoot Oats here. Town would mislynch itself into a loss if he was scum and simply shot me or Clarity. He'd have to be trolling to do something like that. It's just a matter of WHY do that for him? I can't see it anywhere making sense. Marv + Show Spoiler +
Why is marv alive if he's town? It's n2 and if he's town he's usually the most important/useful person in the thread, instead we have BH d1 and rayn dodge, sloosh d2 (though if we're being honest marv wasn't the only one on sloosh, but why didn't he put pressure on Clarity for last minute bus and he did on me and he didn't want to lynch Oats with me), and now what?
Marv knew that Oats would get lynched today if he killed me in the night and when Oats flipped town he would be the lynch day 4. How does marv live through two lynches when he's been called out and has gone for the 1 for 1 gambit, been wrong, and not lynched his partner, and tried to troll lynch and got doctor killed (but it was totes emotion guys)? He throws a wrench into things. By killing Oats in the night he discredits me because I was wrong about Oats and sets up for the "anyone but marv" lynch today. Anyone but marv gets lynched and then he night kills me tomorrow (assuming he doesn't get me lynched today) leaving marv/3 other people who probably won't lynch him because he has TWENTY SEVEN PAGES OF POSTING IS THIS REAL? Boom, marv wins the game. I bet when he thought this up he was so smug. Marv is smug whether scum OR town, but I bet he was sitting there chuckling to himself especially hard on this one.
If marv is alive at day 4 he isn't getting lynched. I will be dead and/or everyone else will just let him slither his way into "Oh I would NEVER do all this as scum, NEVER! Tehehehehe"
Something that actually makes me not want to lynch marv here is that he wanted to do a 1 for 1 trade he was so sure sloosh was scum. I offered the same thing to Pandain and Pandain scoffed at it in Noir and he turned out to be scum.
Clarity + Show Spoiler +Clarity was suspicious to me early on, but as soon as rayn called me town I nailed him and when Oats started trolling me I tunneled onto him. It's Oats' fault and I'm never going to play with him again, he's as bad as Mocsta and Geript. Going back to Clarity, I find it funny that he swapped back with so little time left. He pretty much guarantees a sloosh lynch day 2 with his move with things staying as is and sloosh swap to rayn to save himself. I've been catching flak for a potential bus all game, but because I don't ride marv I don't get to be super awesome. If Clarity is scum, I can see him shooting Oats over this On October 08 2013 07:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
Oh man.
Lol Clarity is playing a really good scumgame then.
but that's a stretch. I don't see anything else in Oats filter recently that would make Clarity shoot Oats. If Clarity is scum why not ride an Oats/Dirk/marv lynch? That's three people he could have for today and tomorrow to lynch. It makes no sense for him to do this. BUT MAYBE he's afraid because people have been alerted to his last minute swap to rayn over sloosh now so he is afraid of going to day 4 as someone with a potential bus case being formed against him. It's a crazy play, but is anyone seriously considering lynching him? Before people might have considered him d4, now maybe he felt he had a better shot making people go crazy. This is actually a better reason to shoot Oats than the quoted statement. Or maybe he shot Oats because Oats was screaming that Clarity was totes town along with marv and he wanted to lynch dirk/marv and people would begin to suspect why such a strong town read for so many people was still alive? This doesn't apply to HF, in my opinion, simply because the game would have been so much easier for HF as scum to kill sloosh. Clarity's swap gets him town cred while lynching someone who was going to get lynched d2 anyways following a sloosh lynch. This seems really paranoid to me. If this were the case I'd have to accept that Clarity bussed his teammate with minutes left d1 when he wasn't a scum read for many people, then shot Oats while he was still not that high a priority for anyone because he was afraid of going into day 4 with a potential bus case developing on him. Ugh, it's twisting my brain around in circles and this feels ranty. It's such a needless risk for Clarity here. Dirk + Show Spoiler +Dirk has cases on him, he's been useless all game. He defends himself without pushing much of anything. He's the clear lynch here come day 3 with Oats gone and a town seemingly unwilling to lynch marv, so why shoot Oats? I think the same thing applying to marv here applies to Dirk. How does Dirk live through two lynches? How does he get himself to the finish line? He throws a wrench into things. He makes people think themselves out of his lynch. He rides me to a marv lynch today and then Does something fucking NUTS tomorrow to not get himself lynched. Is it possible this hail mary is his only option here? Has he essentially given up? Why not go for Oats/marv lynches is the thing holding me back. Presumably he's got my backing for both of those lynches, so why throw a wrench into it? I can only think he would throw a wrench into it because he felt the rest of town wanted to lynch him today over Oats or marv. It should be noted that I gave dirk a pass because I didn't envision a scenario in which one of Oats and marv weren't scum. That was stupid of me. Dirk might be counting on me to continue to be stupid, and I'm here to let him down. Logically, Dirk is the most likely to try something like this because desperation. Four pages of filter isn't necessarily damning assuming quality over quantity, but most of his filter is defense. Here is what bothers me most in his filter (two quotes), double spoilers ftw + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 00:30 Dirkzor wrote:
Risen I don't know why you are complicating things. Marv played really pro-town until the BH thing which I don't think I'll ever truely understand. I don't understand why he would do it as either town or scum so I'm left with believing his claim to hate BH.
Instead you should read my case on Sloosh. Say you agree and we lynch sloosh. I'm coming away from this with the feeling that Dirk knows marv is town. He doesn't say marv is a town read, but he certainly implies it HEAVILY. It's the kind of thing someone would say if they later wanted to go back on what they said earlier. What marv did was anti-town, plain and simple. Qualifying it is scummy. The second quote should have set me off earlier, but I guess that's what happens when someone trolls you. + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 17:14 Dirkzor wrote:##Vote SlooshSloosh your "case" leaves much to be desired. You kinda scoot over everyone. If you really think I'm the last scum make a real case. Just on me. Not everyone. I'm sure you'll see that I ain't that bad. I'll look into Oats since I'm not really sure about him. Just because Sloosh looks like the clear target we have to keep this going just in case. Oats what did you mean by this: Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
I really wanna know why Sloosh isnt in that list that Risen posted the day before. Seems fairly straightforward to me. Oats wanted to know why sloosh wasn't in my earlier list. This reads to me as Dirk trying to blend as if he is contributing without actually contributing, a clear sign of scum. Oats then goes on to go attack mode on Dirk. This lends credence to the fact that Dirk has to make a big play in order to live past day 3. But why doesn't Dirk know that everyone else will simply see through that? He does. He simply has no other option. Do nothing? Get lynched d3 or d4. Do something? Town might stumble and kill themselves off. Most logically it's Dirk. Big play, but still logical, it's Marv. Only way I see this happening is if he's afraid of bus momentum starting and wants to throw a wrench into the works play, Clarity. Jesus fuck if HF is scum and did this I just want to know why? Regardless, I am going to go to sleep. Maybe HF is in the same boat as Clarity and wanted to make town panic and scramble so people wouldn't look into him more closely in spite of people continuously saying "I'm reading HF's filter and he's coming up town" but then why is HF alive? That's the same thing I'm wondering about marv, though. Maybe he's afraid of something he posted coming to light, though, and decided to throw a wrench into the mix. I am going to read Clarity and HF's filters very closely tomorrow, but I think after thinking about this and thinking it through Dirk is the lynch. ##vote: Dirkzor Look marv already pointed this out. Was why he voted Risen earlier. But what happened from D2/N2 to day 3? Thats the best I can find. Risen was so sure Marv was scummy after Oats. Then suddenly he wasn't. He explains why it is so in his post though. Also I can see no reason for Risen to shoot Oats. He was gunning and pushing him as scum most of D2/N2.
Same with everyone though, as has been gone over ad infinitum.
Remember Risen is the player who won an award in LIII for best/most crazy mafia play for a totally pointless last minute switch between town and town. And also in Chrono Trigger he fabricated a parity cop check to 'confirm' himself. Of all the people crazy enough to shoot Oats.... Risen's that guy.
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On October 09 2013 23:06 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 23:04 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 23 2012 12:09 TheChronicler wrote:
Phone dying. Not able to post/track thread until I can get home Lol what does that mean... was he scum?
lol. he was.
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On October 09 2013 23:05 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:22 Risen wrote:
I'm stepping away. Lynch Oats, if town, lynch marv. That is all. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 14:43 Risen wrote:I will not be playing with Oats again. I can only think of this move making sense coming from marv, dirk, or Clarity because it makes no sense for HF to do it. HF has been riding his town cred since day 1 and wouldn't shoot Oats here. Town would mislynch itself into a loss if he was scum and simply shot me or Clarity. He'd have to be trolling to do something like that. It's just a matter of WHY do that for him? I can't see it anywhere making sense. Marv + Show Spoiler +
Why is marv alive if he's town? It's n2 and if he's town he's usually the most important/useful person in the thread, instead we have BH d1 and rayn dodge, sloosh d2 (though if we're being honest marv wasn't the only one on sloosh, but why didn't he put pressure on Clarity for last minute bus and he did on me and he didn't want to lynch Oats with me), and now what?
Marv knew that Oats would get lynched today if he killed me in the night and when Oats flipped town he would be the lynch day 4. How does marv live through two lynches when he's been called out and has gone for the 1 for 1 gambit, been wrong, and not lynched his partner, and tried to troll lynch and got doctor killed (but it was totes emotion guys)? He throws a wrench into things. By killing Oats in the night he discredits me because I was wrong about Oats and sets up for the "anyone but marv" lynch today. Anyone but marv gets lynched and then he night kills me tomorrow (assuming he doesn't get me lynched today) leaving marv/3 other people who probably won't lynch him because he has TWENTY SEVEN PAGES OF POSTING IS THIS REAL? Boom, marv wins the game. I bet when he thought this up he was so smug. Marv is smug whether scum OR town, but I bet he was sitting there chuckling to himself especially hard on this one.
If marv is alive at day 4 he isn't getting lynched. I will be dead and/or everyone else will just let him slither his way into "Oh I would NEVER do all this as scum, NEVER! Tehehehehe"
Something that actually makes me not want to lynch marv here is that he wanted to do a 1 for 1 trade he was so sure sloosh was scum. I offered the same thing to Pandain and Pandain scoffed at it in Noir and he turned out to be scum.
Clarity + Show Spoiler +Clarity was suspicious to me early on, but as soon as rayn called me town I nailed him and when Oats started trolling me I tunneled onto him. It's Oats' fault and I'm never going to play with him again, he's as bad as Mocsta and Geript. Going back to Clarity, I find it funny that he swapped back with so little time left. He pretty much guarantees a sloosh lynch day 2 with his move with things staying as is and sloosh swap to rayn to save himself. I've been catching flak for a potential bus all game, but because I don't ride marv I don't get to be super awesome. If Clarity is scum, I can see him shooting Oats over this On October 08 2013 07:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
Oh man.
Lol Clarity is playing a really good scumgame then.
but that's a stretch. I don't see anything else in Oats filter recently that would make Clarity shoot Oats. If Clarity is scum why not ride an Oats/Dirk/marv lynch? That's three people he could have for today and tomorrow to lynch. It makes no sense for him to do this. BUT MAYBE he's afraid because people have been alerted to his last minute swap to rayn over sloosh now so he is afraid of going to day 4 as someone with a potential bus case being formed against him. It's a crazy play, but is anyone seriously considering lynching him? Before people might have considered him d4, now maybe he felt he had a better shot making people go crazy. This is actually a better reason to shoot Oats than the quoted statement. Or maybe he shot Oats because Oats was screaming that Clarity was totes town along with marv and he wanted to lynch dirk/marv and people would begin to suspect why such a strong town read for so many people was still alive? This doesn't apply to HF, in my opinion, simply because the game would have been so much easier for HF as scum to kill sloosh. Clarity's swap gets him town cred while lynching someone who was going to get lynched d2 anyways following a sloosh lynch. This seems really paranoid to me. If this were the case I'd have to accept that Clarity bussed his teammate with minutes left d1 when he wasn't a scum read for many people, then shot Oats while he was still not that high a priority for anyone because he was afraid of going into day 4 with a potential bus case developing on him. Ugh, it's twisting my brain around in circles and this feels ranty. It's such a needless risk for Clarity here. Dirk + Show Spoiler +Dirk has cases on him, he's been useless all game. He defends himself without pushing much of anything. He's the clear lynch here come day 3 with Oats gone and a town seemingly unwilling to lynch marv, so why shoot Oats? I think the same thing applying to marv here applies to Dirk. How does Dirk live through two lynches? How does he get himself to the finish line? He throws a wrench into things. He makes people think themselves out of his lynch. He rides me to a marv lynch today and then Does something fucking NUTS tomorrow to not get himself lynched. Is it possible this hail mary is his only option here? Has he essentially given up? Why not go for Oats/marv lynches is the thing holding me back. Presumably he's got my backing for both of those lynches, so why throw a wrench into it? I can only think he would throw a wrench into it because he felt the rest of town wanted to lynch him today over Oats or marv. It should be noted that I gave dirk a pass because I didn't envision a scenario in which one of Oats and marv weren't scum. That was stupid of me. Dirk might be counting on me to continue to be stupid, and I'm here to let him down. Logically, Dirk is the most likely to try something like this because desperation. Four pages of filter isn't necessarily damning assuming quality over quantity, but most of his filter is defense. Here is what bothers me most in his filter (two quotes), double spoilers ftw + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 00:30 Dirkzor wrote:
Risen I don't know why you are complicating things. Marv played really pro-town until the BH thing which I don't think I'll ever truely understand. I don't understand why he would do it as either town or scum so I'm left with believing his claim to hate BH.
Instead you should read my case on Sloosh. Say you agree and we lynch sloosh. I'm coming away from this with the feeling that Dirk knows marv is town. He doesn't say marv is a town read, but he certainly implies it HEAVILY. It's the kind of thing someone would say if they later wanted to go back on what they said earlier. What marv did was anti-town, plain and simple. Qualifying it is scummy. The second quote should have set me off earlier, but I guess that's what happens when someone trolls you. + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2013 17:14 Dirkzor wrote:##Vote SlooshSloosh your "case" leaves much to be desired. You kinda scoot over everyone. If you really think I'm the last scum make a real case. Just on me. Not everyone. I'm sure you'll see that I ain't that bad. I'll look into Oats since I'm not really sure about him. Just because Sloosh looks like the clear target we have to keep this going just in case. Oats what did you mean by this: Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
I really wanna know why Sloosh isnt in that list that Risen posted the day before. Seems fairly straightforward to me. Oats wanted to know why sloosh wasn't in my earlier list. This reads to me as Dirk trying to blend as if he is contributing without actually contributing, a clear sign of scum. Oats then goes on to go attack mode on Dirk. This lends credence to the fact that Dirk has to make a big play in order to live past day 3. But why doesn't Dirk know that everyone else will simply see through that? He does. He simply has no other option. Do nothing? Get lynched d3 or d4. Do something? Town might stumble and kill themselves off. Most logically it's Dirk. Big play, but still logical, it's Marv. Only way I see this happening is if he's afraid of bus momentum starting and wants to throw a wrench into the works play, Clarity. Jesus fuck if HF is scum and did this I just want to know why? Regardless, I am going to go to sleep. Maybe HF is in the same boat as Clarity and wanted to make town panic and scramble so people wouldn't look into him more closely in spite of people continuously saying "I'm reading HF's filter and he's coming up town" but then why is HF alive? That's the same thing I'm wondering about marv, though. Maybe he's afraid of something he posted coming to light, though, and decided to throw a wrench into the mix. I am going to read Clarity and HF's filters very closely tomorrow, but I think after thinking about this and thinking it through Dirk is the lynch. ##vote: Dirkzor Look marv already pointed this out. Was why he voted Risen earlier. But what happened from D2/N2 to day 3? Thats the best I can find. Risen was so sure Marv was scummy after Oats. Then suddenly he wasn't. He explains why it is so in his post though. Also I can see no reason for Risen to shoot Oats. He was gunning and pushing him as scum most of D2/N2.
Small correction. I never voted Risen, but I did find it suspicious. Which was then easily superceded by how suspicious I was for you not caring
Your timeline of votes that Risen made does look correct. I hadn't noticed the "it's only 2 including me" and being behind on the phone because Holy voted. That's a nice catch as either alignment tbh lol
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On October 09 2013 23:09 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm checking the scum qt to see if he was around after he said that
it makes no sense to afk with your vote on mafia and not town though >.<
then again, if dirk is in fact town, then mafia bussed needlessly...
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On October 09 2013 23:11 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +Marv knew that Oats would get lynched today if he killed me in the night and when Oats flipped town he would be the lynch day 4. How does marv live through two lynches when he's been called out and has gone for the 1 for 1 gambit, been wrong, and not lynched his partner, and tried to troll lynch and got doctor killed (but it was totes emotion guys)
Dirk has cases on him, he's been useless all game. He defends himself without pushing much of anything. He's the clear lynch here come day 3 with Oats gone and a town seemingly unwilling to lynch marv, so why shoot Oats? I think the same thing applying to marv here applies to Dirk. How does Dirk live through two lynches? How does he get himself to the finish line? Quotes from Risen's last post. Why does that stick out to me? I'm not sure if relevant. Seems to me he thinks marv is unlynchable but still uses the argument that Marv wouldn't live through 2 lynches without killing oats...
I can pick a lot of holes in his whole post he made, I just don't know if it's scummy or just bad reasoning. The one I remember is... *goes to find*
Why is marv alive if he's town?
How does marv live through two lynches when he's been called out and has gone for the 1 for 1 gambit, been wrong, and not lynched his partner, and tried to troll lynch and got doctor killed (but it was totes emotion guys)? He throws a wrench into things.
If marv is alive at day 4 he isn't getting lynched.
All these are from the same piece he made on me. They don't make much sense together, but i don't know if that's scummy tbh.
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On October 09 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 23:09 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm checking the scum qt to see if he was around after he said that Btw I never saw that post where marv stated that someone was in another topic or QT while not posting here... (rayn was it, when playing drunk D1?) where is it... I've been wonderign why I never saw it...
was Risen I think? didn't seem massively important. hold on
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On October 09 2013 23:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 23:13 Dirkzor wrote:On October 09 2013 23:09 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm checking the scum qt to see if he was around after he said that Btw I never saw that post where marv stated that someone was in another topic or QT while not posting here... (rayn was it, when playing drunk D1?) where is it... I've been wonderign why I never saw it... was Risen I think? didn't seem massively important. hold on
I have to go for a little while. Was in noir obsQT
Risen
10-02-2013
11:53 PM ET (US)
Well... I feel bad :/
Don't know how to make the times line up, will check into it later if you can't either
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On October 09 2013 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote:
Like, yeah the whole "I'm waiting for HF and Risen" thing makes sense now, but does that make dirk town suddenly?
It does seem like a weird thing to do as scum >.<
Never easy
No, it doesn't make Dirk town suddenly.
But it means we can HAVE the discussion, which is precisely what this game needed. Shaking up, new discussion.
And at LYLO-1 rather than LYLO, which is the right time to have it. Just need everyone to participate in it :/
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On October 10 2013 00:24 Holyflare wrote:
I just spent like an hour reading and re-reading the last few pages and then making a case on dirkzor only to re-read rayn a bit. He makes risen look suspicious as hell. Ends up voting sloosh and says no to risen? Calls risen town all game, etc etc.
This game confuses the shit out of me but I'll post the abridged version on dirk for now and then look up risen a bit more:
Hey Holy.
The thing is, rayn made slOosh look suspicious as hell. Has slOosh as 2nd scumread, refuses to vote him etc. And slOosh was town. So.... ick.
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On October 10 2013 00:31 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:26 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 00:24 Holyflare wrote:
I just spent like an hour reading and re-reading the last few pages and then making a case on dirkzor only to re-read rayn a bit. He makes risen look suspicious as hell. Ends up voting sloosh and says no to risen? Calls risen town all game, etc etc.
This game confuses the shit out of me but I'll post the abridged version on dirk for now and then look up risen a bit more:
Hey Holy. The thing is, rayn made slOosh look suspicious as hell. Has slOosh as 2nd scumread, refuses to vote him etc. And slOosh was town. So.... ick. He voted sloosh. Didn't want to counter wagon onto risen who was his only other option and would have prevented impending no-lynch at the time.
Hmm, I was referring to earlier in the day. His vote at the end was pointless wasn't it?
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On October 10 2013 00:32 Holyflare wrote:
However, I think it's pretty minor, just the way he talks about risen is "he's so sure town". I honestly don't think risen would make a massive case on rayn like that though, there was no actual need to bus day 1....
It's perfectly possible Risen is not mafia, but this argument is so awful, and Clarity's made it too.
If I think I can make cases on my mafiabuddy at any point in the game and they won't get lynched, I'm fucking doing it. Every. Single. Time.
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On October 10 2013 00:36 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:35 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 00:32 Holyflare wrote:
However, I think it's pretty minor, just the way he talks about risen is "he's so sure town". I honestly don't think risen would make a massive case on rayn like that though, there was no actual need to bus day 1.... It's perfectly possible Risen is not mafia, but this argument is so awful, and Clarity's made it too. If I think I can make cases on my mafiabuddy at any point in the game and they won't get lynched, I'm fucking doing it. Every. Single. Time. Yeh but there was no NEED for risen to switch to rayn at the time.
Risen got his mafia award for doing something mafia had no "need" to do as well. It's precisely why he got the award in fact. Meh.
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and I was referring to the case he made mostly, not the switching at the end of the day.
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On October 10 2013 00:43 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, of course you can do that. It was the interactions that risen had after he made the case that made it seem more genuine. That, coupled with his confirmation biased aggressiveness just added to my town read of him most of the game as most of his games I've seen he has been pretty similar.
I mean, sure, it would make sense to make a case on like dirkzor or something and get everybody to train back onto him but to make a case on rayn who was on the forefront of everyones minds for a lynch just didn't make sense. Especially when he could have just voted sloosh and been done with it.
this isn't true. wasn't on anyone's mind really, and his case gained zero traction.
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AT LEAST WE BOLDED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY
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if clarity is somehow mafia, then i've thought like mafia all game. that would be so depressing
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On October 10 2013 00:50 Holyflare wrote:
I meant back ~_~
There is no possible way that you could argue that how rayn was playing was not scummy. To me he was clearly the second most reasonable lynch in the game. Posts nothing but crap at the start, jumps onto someone he didn't find that scummy and then afk's on a dirkzor vote till like 20 mins at the end where he then votes sloosh over risen.
that's all very well in hindsight, however that wasn't what the thread was like at the time, which is the point.
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go read the thread.
/conversation
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rayn was getting zero traction, and risen's case didn't make rayn gain traction.
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On October 10 2013 00:54 Holyflare wrote:
So you're saying nobody agreed with a rayn lynch at all ever. That's why he's dead right? No. The only reason BH's voting went through was because of Risen's case and people thinking HE WAS SCUM IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS. You are being dumb.
No, I'm saying Risen made his case at a very safe time for rayn's lynchability, as proved by the fact his case did absolutely nothing to move anyone to vote for him.
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On October 10 2013 00:54 Holyflare wrote:
If the case gained no traction people wouldn't vote rayn at all.
lol people don't vote for people with last minute shenannies because they remembered a case made 24 hours ago or whatever.
Shenannies are a law unto themselves.
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On October 10 2013 00:55 Holyflare wrote:
Convinced me. If he didn't make the case I wouldn't have necessarily switched. It had reasonable points in it. Points which you refused to read too until I told you to.
but you didn't switch at the time
which is the point of making the case
you're using the fact that there was last minute shenannies to justify it post-hoc
it doesn't make sense logically what you're arguing.
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Holy, you're making the argument "no scum should ever make a case on a fellow scummer, because at some point, some undisclosed point later in the game, that case may be in the back of someone's mind"
that's not how it works.
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On October 10 2013 00:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:56 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 00:54 Holyflare wrote:
If the case gained no traction people wouldn't vote rayn at all. lol people don't vote for people with last minute shenannies because they remembered a case made 24 hours ago or whatever. Shenannies are a law unto themselves. Shenanies happen exactly for the reason you said they don't. People have that suspicion from seeds planted earlier.
Sorry, how many shenannies have you been a part of? I'm guessing the answer is "infinitely less than marv"
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the shenannies happened because rayn came into the thread being a moron and BH decided he wanted to lynch him for it.
The earlier cases may then have played into how likely it was that rayn got lynched. But to connect the two is ridiculous.
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On October 10 2013 00:59 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, you're making the argument "no scum should ever make a case on a fellow scummer, because at some point, some undisclosed point later in the game, that case may be in the back of someone's mind"
that's not how it works. There's a difference between a case and what risen wrote and subsequently defended himself with.
then your stance is that Risen is town, fine. Don't bullshit shit reasons to justify it though. What you wrote here is a good reason.
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On October 10 2013 01:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:59 marvellosity wrote:
the shenannies happened because rayn came into the thread being a moron and BH decided he wanted to lynch him for it.
The earlier cases may then have played into how likely it was that rayn got lynched. But to connect the two is ridiculous. If I didn't have that case, I wouldn't switch, risen wouldn't therefore switch, sloosh would die and then there would still be 2 mafia left.....
THAT'S JUST HOW THE GAME WENT.
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On October 10 2013 01:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:59 marvellosity wrote:
the shenannies happened because rayn came into the thread being a moron and BH decided he wanted to lynch him for it.
The earlier cases may then have played into how likely it was that rayn got lynched. But to connect the two is ridiculous. If I didn't have that case, I wouldn't switch, risen wouldn't therefore switch, sloosh would die and then there would still be 2 mafia left.....
On October 10 2013 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, you're making the argument "no scum should ever make a case on a fellow scummer, because at some point, some undisclosed point later in the game, that case may be in the back of someone's mind"
that's not how it works.
christ
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Causality != correlation != association
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On October 10 2013 00:59 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
Holy, you're making the argument "no scum should ever make a case on a fellow scummer, because at some point, some undisclosed point later in the game, that case may be in the back of someone's mind"
that's not how it works. There's a difference between a case and what risen wrote and subsequently defended himself with.
ANYWAY, this is the decent argument.
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On October 10 2013 01:03 Holyflare wrote:
Are you intentionally being dumb? There were a myriad of people that risen could make a case on that were equally scummy. THERE WAS NO POINT in picking rayn. If he was a scum buddy then there is literally no reason to draw more attention to him at that point in the game. The case was beyond fucking long too which implied more than enough effort, more than he's done in the whole game. He fought for it after and was dejected when you were being a dick about it. THese are things that scum do not normally do.
you have no idea what scum normally do. you have no idea how and when certain scum bus. you have no idea about Risen.
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by the way, my vote is on Dirk still.
But now is the time to talk about such possibilities.
I agree with you that Risen's behaviour after he made the case don't make it look like a bus case.
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On October 10 2013 01:06 Holyflare wrote:
Being an abrasive dick is really not helpful either. Doesn't matter if "this is how I normally am".
On October 10 2013 01:03 Holyflare wrote:
Are you intentionally being dumb?
:o
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So you're still confident it's Dirk then, correct?
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On October 10 2013 01:05 Holyflare wrote:
I have read into risen quite a bit, I do know what scum normally do and I do know how and when scum bus.
Not being funny, but if you've read into Risen, you'd know the argument that you made about someone not "needing" to do something holds the least water with him. Pretty much out of any player I can think of, ever.
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Really I just wish Risen would participate. All this is shooting the shit and seeing what falls out. Risen is crazy enough to shoot Oats, for example. Clarity isn't. Not sure whether you are holy. I'm too much a percentage player to. meh.
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On October 10 2013 01:12 Dirkzor wrote:
I'm not sure why HF is fighting so hard to make Risen look more town? I got 3 votes, I'm his no.1 scum read at this point.
If HF is mafia and you're town, he's kinda shooting himself in the foot arguing vehemently for Risen's towniness, no?
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Risen's gonna be so mad at me :x
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out of curiosity, did you read into me deeper like you said you would yesterday, HF?
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fair enough.
leave my scumgames alone :< I do wonder how people don't notice tbf.
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On October 10 2013 01:26 Holyflare wrote:
As a sidenote, everyones profile should be like yours >_>
TL Mafia Database my friend.
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On October 10 2013 01:23 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, you were town until the BH thing and then you decided to martyr yourself which I see as a totally non-town move. The rest is all questioning and calling people dumb and then there are a few cases thrown in. At least you were reading around and the posts you linked to dirk showed that your meta was in line with how you've been playing.
That being said when someone is aware of their own meta to that extent it's easy to play to it. So I can't really get a proper read on you either way. If you're mafia, you're probably going to win. If not then hey, at least we have a person that contributes to discussion.
I did read the games you were scum. They were bad :p and looked nothing like this.
weird :o
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On October 10 2013 01:28 Holyflare wrote:
Well shit that's infinitely useful.
haha, isn't it just :D
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kitaman truly deserves the title "legend"
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it's definitely still weird. being aware of your own meta and being able to play to it are totally different things.
take your 2nd sentence that i bolded. if i'm so aware of my meta and thus able to play with it, how come all my scumgames look bad and nothing like this?
because being aware of and being able to play to, are not the same thing.
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probably just a stylistic thing though.
I've never really agreed with people when they say that if they're aware of their own meta, then they can play to it, other than for really trivial things. Stuff like emotion/genuine volume of posting I think are extremely hard to fake indeed.
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because the thing about emotional stuff, for example, is that it's unplanned. so if you want to take your meta as mafia, you have to plan unplanned emotion. And it all starts to break down
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On October 10 2013 01:37 Holyflare wrote:
The fact that you have linked so much meta within this game is throwing off my read somewhat. That is the only reason I find it hard to tell. "Oh this guy is throwing out such specific meta posts because he's learnt what his meta is so well that he must be able to change it by now"
If you weren't defending yourself so vehemently with all these quotes about specific ways you play, I would have assumed you were 100% town long ago. Now it's more 80-90%
if you read my games, you'd know i always heavily defend myself with meta
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but I don't deny being accutely aware of how I play, both as town and mafia. I'm extremely self-aware. I just have terrible self-control.
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On October 10 2013 01:39 Holyflare wrote:
It would be different if it were say voice mafia, but in typing I'd find it much easier to change my style to fit.
I'd agree with you for filters <20 pages, tbh. It's possible to keep stuff up for a certain amount of time. I burn out eventually though.
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Hopefully. I want Risen to come and play. I'm actually quite burnt out now.
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On October 10 2013 01:48 Risen wrote:
I'm like... 99% sure marv is scum HF. So if Dirk is lynched today, who will you lynch tomorrow? Me, right?
lol, what?
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... are you scum?
i can't believe you're genuinely this dense
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On October 10 2013 01:49 Risen wrote:Wouldn't that be the obvious thing to do? Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 01:48 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 01:48 Risen wrote:
I'm like... 99% sure marv is scum HF. So if Dirk is lynched today, who will you lynch tomorrow? Me, right? lol, what? You did it. In spite of BH warning everyone and everyone going down with your name on their lips you've managed to win it. Congratulations marv.
the last two townies to die thought Dirk was scum.
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I don't even remember saying that.
You think it was a scum-controlled game the entire time? Despite the fact on day 1 I could have moved my vote back to sloosh - as Clarity said, he only voted rayn to consolidate a lynch?
Why are you blatantly talking nonsense?
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yeah I was that sure slOosh was mafia.
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Oats would never have lynched me.
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are you really this insane?
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##Unvote
yes you are actually.
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On October 10 2013 01:57 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And no one bats an eye at how fast that happened. No one bats an eye at how marv was prepared for this. Of course they won't, you've been scummy all game mislynching, shitflinging, that's not town marv, but you've managed to paint thew picture that it is. I'm not even mad at this point. You took the wind out of my sails when you said I bet Risen is mad, because I realized damn, he got me pegged. He managed to play us all like puppets the entire game. He managed to play scummy and flood the thread and be wrong where he shouldn't have been wrong the entire time and we just ate it up.
this is a lie. I pretty much only shitfling as town. Why do you keep misrepresenting me?
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I literally don't understand why you keep saying things about my town and mafiagames that aren't true.
why would you do that?
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On October 10 2013 02:02 Risen wrote:
You simply call people bad marv, and that's not what you've done here. You've made me FEEL bad. That's not what you do. You don't demoralize people
i've done so numerous times as town, and not once as mafia. I can provide examples.
e.g. Acrofales/Dandel Ion in MTG 2.
why are you arguing that something i've done as town and something i've never done as mafia is something i do as mafia? that is literally ass backwards.
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if you don't do meta, why do you keep telling me how i play as town? when you are constantly wrong?
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On October 10 2013 02:02 Risen wrote:
It all makes sense now, he knew I would immediately move over to Dirk, bcause I don't do meta, I play with logic, and logically Dirk was the guy. He was counting on it. But he wasn't counting on me to think on the next level of the Oats kill. He was expecting me to be mad, he wasn't expecting me to keep my cool. Oats went down because I'm not the crazy one, Oats is the crazy one and marv knew it. So marv got rid of the crazy guy who would lynch him for the hell of it
I can't even respond to this because it's just such nonsense
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Clarity, that's not helpful. What do you actually make of this?
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On October 10 2013 02:06 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:03 marvellosity wrote:
if you don't do meta, why do you keep telling me how i play as town? when you are constantly wrong? Because meta is not something you don't use marv. I don't mean meta is bad when I say don't use meta in cases. Meta is bad in cases because other people should keep meta in their heads. If you share meta as a thought process and then use things to back it up that's ok. That's not what anyone ever does, though. They put meta as a central point of their argument, when really it's just a support point that led you to view the person as scum in the first place. It's what confirms initially and makes you look at the person. Then you find the things in that person's filter that are scummy
Then why do you keep saying things about my games that are the opposite of true?
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"you're all scummy for posting too much" is simply not acceptable.
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Risen, you have played the scummiest out of everyone today, by far.
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here's a clue Risen: in every game ever, on average the more active players are townies, and the less active ones are mafia.
To try to paint the active ones talking about things as scummy is the stupidest thing in the history of the universe.
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On October 10 2013 02:29 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:27 marvellosity wrote:
"you're all scummy for posting too much" is simply not acceptable. That's not the point I'm trying to make. Who is posting content in all these things? The vast majority of it is filler. The vast majority of all this is filler and you three talking things out that could easily be done in your head. So WHY is all this happening. WHY is all this filler happening. Why is someone posting today this much that could just be done in their head? To appear active, to appear as if they are contributing. That's why I'm saying you're all scummy from this, because you're all doing it, it isn't just one of you. And why am I the only one who is seeing this?
You don't fucking know what scummy means.
If a townie is putting his thought process into the thread, that's NOT SCUMMY BY FUCKING DEFINITION.
you literally don't know what scummy means.
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scummy means "what scum would do".
thinking things out in thread is what townies do.
it is not scummy.
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On October 10 2013 02:02 Risen wrote:
It all makes sense now, he knew I would immediately move over to Dirk, bcause I don't do meta, I play with logic, and logically Dirk was the guy. He was counting on it. But he wasn't counting on me to think on the next level of the Oats kill. He was expecting me to be mad, he wasn't expecting me to keep my cool. Oats went down because I'm not the crazy one, Oats is the crazy one and marv knew it. So marv got rid of the crazy guy who would lynch him for the hell of it
Remember what I said earlier in the game about Risen being really self-centred?
This post suggests he's town. As if the game revolves around him. It's just so nonsense and so self-centred as to be almost unbelievable.
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no, Oats doesn't have the potential to lynch marv. Stop talking bullshit.
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Only 3 townies have died, and only the one who died longest ago wanted to kill me
Risen stop making shit up it's getting annoying
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On October 10 2013 02:38 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:36 marvellosity wrote:
Only 3 townies have died, and only the one who died longest ago wanted to kill me
Risen stop making shit up it's getting annoying Sloosh didn't want you dead? Really?
Really. Learn to read?
On October 05 2013 07:30 slOosh wrote:Hey guys, I've been mulling it over, and these feels a lot like Catch 22. Scum topple, and then we hunt some dudes, and then it turns out there was some tunneling. I know because I made it to LYLO and almost lost the game. That said, I retract my initial desire to 1 for 1 for marv. Not that I'm definite that he is town, but neither am I that confident that he is scum, and it is entirely possible that I'm making a similar kind of oversight this game as well. So I'm scratching the slate and starting over. Feel free to input thoughts and whatnot as I review the game - humor me, if you will.
(Oats, this is really big post, so feel free to skip it all and call me scum ) + Show Spoiler +9 player game, 1 dead rayn, 1 (soon to be dead doctor) BH. 1 me. That leaves 6 players I get to give a good look at, only 1 is scum. So all interactions in the thread include at least 1 town (beside those with rayn). Oats, Dirk, marv, Risen, clarity, Holyflare On October 02 2013 10:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey let's lynch Oats, seems reasonable.
dundundun. This is rayn's first (well second post). It actually is echoing HolyFlare's vote on Oats, bringing focus upon it. Don't think rayn would be so quick to point out his partner's problematic posts, but it does seem like he is drunk or something. Chalk it up as a slight town tell for HF by association. pg 5~10 and I feel good about Oats. It's rapid fire unadulterated thoughts into the thread, and there is focus to his posts (as a whole). Feeling moderate to strong town on Oats.On October 02 2013 18:55 marvellosity wrote:
Ok now I read it. He provides two quotes as contextual evidence for his non-read on Oats, and none with his scumread on Holyflare. Seems like my vote is quite good. On October 02 2013 19:11 marvellosity wrote:
That's totally different reasoning to the reasoning you used last page.
At least you've taken to providing contextual evidence to your scumread instead of your null read now. Yay! On October 02 2013 20:27 marvellosity wrote:
So you voted a scumread based on evidence that didn't exist? Your claim was effectively that he was sheeping BH and unoriginal, and now having "checked" his filter, he is in fact not sheeping BH and original after all.
At this point I feel really stupid. Marv's arguments are solid. Paranoia says that scum marv would punish poor town play like this, but I'm realizing my paranoia is not the good kind. I recall marv revisiting this interaction, especially with the quote "clinically clean". I can see what he means by this. Dirk's claim is sloppy. Either HF is doing nothing, or he is doing scummy things (sheeping BH etc.) Then he says HF is clean, indicating a lack of substance, but not noting actively scummy things. At this point I give marv a solid town read and Dirkzor a slight red read. Maybe I'll just emphatic b/c he says it's his first game in a year. Moving on, Getting bored of coloring things in. pg 16 Clarity is prodding me about my bad townread on Dirk. That's sensible. You see something strange, you call that out and you probe. pg 18 rayn enters the thread and hones in on the BH / Oats thing. Does not mention me or dirk. I understand this reflects poorly on me. Cool. pg 21 rayn gives dirk an out. I believe by now I'm already prone to confirmation bias into thinking dirk is the last scum. Feel free to disregard such statements. On October 03 2013 16:32 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 16:26 Dirkzor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2013 16:06 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 15:46 Dirkzor wrote:On October 03 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am trying to find out myself if i believe his "feel reads" are legit or if he is scum.
Dirkzor if you base your early day 1 reads on feels, why did you say somthing completely different in your post where you voted for HF? If it's a gut read why frame it to something else? I don't believe I framed it to be anything other then a feel read. I wrote how I felt about him. Him posting rubbish and following BH. After re-reading to stand up for my belief I got another feeling because there really wasn't any evidence.. And people have been noticing how I made 2 quotes of Oats and then voted HF with only a few lines attached. That was because BH said oats was scummy and I wanted to weigh in on that. The post ended up going another way though. This is an outright lie. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 18:38 Dirkzor wrote:I believe BH's rng post was meant to be what it turned out to be. Discussion starter. It worked. Great. Now lets move on and find scum. Shit I don't even know what to write... Been so looong. Oats seem either weird, confused or scummy. Not sure which yet. On October 02 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stifling discussion is top scum play for calling someone scummy when they are being agressive and shit.
Holyflare is the right lynch!. The first sentence still doesnt make sense to me after reading it 5 times (Hungover so might be my fault). it also baffles me that he seems so sure about who to lynch so early. There are other examples: On October 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:All those words. That dont mean anything. it's the top scum play to stifle discussion. With his sure stance on me being scum and despite me resonding why I posted what I did is it not he who is in fact stifling the discussion?
I meant saying that someone is stifling discussion is what scum always like to do. The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. Everyone else thinks that you are scummy. Therefore I cant do anything more to convince people at this point of time. COME ON HOLYFLARE. STOP POSTING LONG POSTS. NOT GOOD. You and BH are probably not on the same scumteam but I have a way more sure read on you than on BH. BH, is Holyflare a noob or not? This whole posts is nonsense aswell. But through all this I somewhat still think he is town... hmm... HF's rambling about meta and being weak is rubbish. Him jumping the rng wagon, as pointed out by Risen, without any good reason is rubbish. After this, despite that BH think he have been posting better, he havent really done anything. He has sheeping BH and using BH arguments to push oats. ##Vote Holyflare Your case says he has not contributed at all and sheeping. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:10 Dirkzor wrote:Yes he have been posting, but when I read it I don't really see any meat. Might just be me but that's how I see it. Some of his posts seems to be just for the sake of posting. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 12:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 02 2013 12:48 Holyflare wrote:
Risen, in a game of 9 players in which I know nothing about any of the players there is no better system to accept straight off than RNG. Obviously there are ways to get my attention drawn to other people, however, in a 'world heavyweight championship' as you so lovingly pointed out, is it really going to be that obvious when people screw up? I think not. Like I said in my original post, however, I am open to peoples opinions on other players.
except that we have 48 hours to find scum and its only 2/9 chance that we get scum. And probably another 4/9 that we hit an obvious townie that is obvious town after 48 hours. Now its not so useful is it? Do you even read what is posted? Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 12:18 Blazinghand wrote:
Also to all the RNG doubters: RNG has a 2/7 chance of hitting scum today! Not 2/9 as you might think. Why is that?
Well, first off, I'm talking to people who aren't Oats and are town. You personally know that of the 8 non-you players, 2 are scum. So you'd think it would be a 2/8 chance of an RNG hitting scum. Pretty lame right? WRONG. If the RNG is on the doctor and the lynch starts to gather steam, he'll surely claim. This means that the doctor isn't even in the lynch pool, and we can roll again for a new RNG. this means we can discount one town player from our odds, meaning that you have a 2/7 (over 30%!) chance of lynching scum with RNG! On October 02 2013 14:05 Holyflare wrote:
Stop posting long posts??? It's called analysis of a player. The fact that even after I've posted that you aren't asking me anything, aren't trying to discover whether I am in fact town or not and aren't trying to decipher other peoples motives is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's easy to jump on a player because he played the noob card but there are 2 scum in this game not just one. If i were to be lynched and did indeed flip town then wouldn't you regret not pressuring other people on why they think i'm a sure fire scum? When I read through his filter it feels clinicly clean. Don't know how to describe it really... it like trying to get rotten wood look fresh on the surface. When pressured you come up with a variation of "his posts feel constructed" Why did you switch from reasons to "feel"? It's because your original reason got debunked by marv and you were forced to backtrack. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 20:11 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 02 2013 19:17 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 19:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
Would still like your thoughts on oats, marv. And i would like your thought on me instead of "Oh i'll take that ##Vote" I could quote marvs posts if you'd like but they're right there. #Sheeple You spend 4 paragraphs on a null read yet your scumread is hardly explained. Saying HF has done nothing means you haven't read the thread carefully enough. Reading him as most likely to be scum is bleh. Thank you. Ok. So I went back to find evidence that HF have been sheeping BH. Not much was found... Only little thing was this (and it's not really worth noting in the sheeping department): On October 02 2013 13:56 Holyflare wrote:-snip- Not to mention; On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? If you think (you said you KNEW) a person was scum, your orientation as a townsman should be to prove to your allies that the person is in fact scum. If you do not interact with the person at all how can you garner anymore information than the one post you base your entire 'analysis' on? The fact that you say everyone else agrees with you in this thread is just testament to the fact that you have put no effort or thought into your stance and are just going with the flow to follow up for an 'easy' lynch. On October 02 2013 13:47 Blazinghand wrote:On October 02 2013 13:42 Oatsmaster wrote:the point i'm getting at here isn't that having a strong stance early on is scummy. THIS IS NOT MY POINT. STOP LYING AND STATING THAT IT IS MY POINT. my point is the lack of follow-up, the lack of interaction with the guy being voted or the guy not voting him. After all, if I REALLY do think holyflare is scummy, you should be all over me trying to refine my scumread on him. I shouldn't have to twist your arm to get you to do this.
So you vote for someone then you ask him to explain? If I think a guy is scum, then why do I have to have interaction with him? And if everyone else in the thread thinks the same way, then why do I have to have interaction with them? The answer seems obvious to me. Your goal is to establish the alignment of the guy you have a scumread on. Sure, you think he's scum, but you don't KNOW. So you talk with him. You talk with other players and try to convince them. Maybe they support you, maybe they point out how he's scummier or townier than you thought. In these interactions, most people betray what alignment they are through how they think-- be they town or scum. The goal is to develop a co-operative discourse in which people all have solid reads on each other. It involves an acknowledgement that part of what writing a case and voting is, is pressure-- it's developing your read. On October 02 2013 13:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its funny that you played with me all these games with me BH, and you still dont know I exaggerate the hell out of my stuff.
When you lie, I will call you a liar. Quote me instead of putting words in my mouth. Other then that HF have been more original then I said he had been. Hmm.. That clashes with my previous belief. After re reading I'm also leaning more scum on oats. But I'm not sure it is entirely because of re-reading or just because I now think HF looks less scum. The problem with oats is that he have done some wierd shit as I pointed out earlier. But the feel I get when reading his filter is of someone who cares... After that you kind of retract your read on HF, but instead of saying that you immediately go back to your old faithful "well, oats could be scum or town". The same thing you Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:00 Dirkzor wrote:On October 02 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:
I mean seriously, if you're going to vote for someone like that, you should probably check that what you're saying about them is actually true, don't you think?
Or is the truth not important when attached to a vote? Truth is important. I was wrong I admit that. But I don't always go back and re-read just to be sure right before posting. I read the thread and was I got from it was that HF had sheeped BH so i wrote that. That turned out to be wrong after more careful scrutiny. Worse then that it puts me back as for as reads go. I don't understand why he is an easy place to put my vote. It would have been so much easier just to vote rayn if I wanted to do that. You emphasize here that your HF read is now gone. Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 22:45 Dirkzor wrote:
I was thinking about voting myself as a placeholder. After my HF fuckup I don't really have a clear read so I decided just to let it stay put...
If I'm scum I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself. Meh... After all that you go "welp, I guess I have no reads." tl;dr
*Makes a case based on fiction
*Backtracks when called out and says it's a feel read
*THEN he retracts the read entirely because his reasons didn't hold up, DESPITE it being a feel read
*Claims he has never "framed it as anything but a feel read"
*Has not given analysis on anyone other than Oats or HF. Everyone else has basically been ignored, with the exception of a sentence or two. You're entire case revolves around me changes my opinion... I don't see that as a problem to be honest. my tl:dr version: *makes a case based on first read through and the feeling i got* *when called out re-read to find evidence, explain and convince* *doesn't find evidence* *Can see reasons for being wrong by people the calling him out* *changes his veiw based on this* I never said I had no read. Neither have I stated that I now think HF is town. Some of the things that I thought was scummy about him have just changed and thus I didn't have a clear read I could target. Your vote is still on him btw. I realize you made the post about voting yourself as placeholder. You are aware you can simply unvote? Who have you looked at recently other than HF/Oats and did you develop a read out of looking at them? On October 03 2013 16:52 Dirkzor wrote:
I recently looked into sloosh (and found a gem I think). I am waiting for him to answer... Also in Rayn after BH asked and his case. But you would know if you read the thread as you so kindly advocated earlier that people do before asking questions...
I know my vote is on him. So? Wat? That's not a response. That's an evasion. "Opinions on HF/ Oats or anyone?" *in snarky tone* "I've obviously been looking at rayn and slOosh. dummy." K by this point either I'm onto something or I have confirmation bias and so instead I'll focus on the remaining players to see how they are. ~pg 24 marv and clarity doing lots of intertwining. KISS -> they are both town. pg 25, I guess Oats was the first one to pick up the nuances of Dirk's 180. pg 26 rayn votes Dirk. Hrmph. pg 27 rayn drops everything starting with a small portion of HF's post. He really brings on the pressure, and HF doesn't buckle. Plus points for HF. contrast with pg 30 where rayn is all nice nice with Dirk. You guys can probably just stop reading here without missing anything Only person I haven't really looked into is Risen, probably because he hasn't posted as frequently. He has posted two big cases but it's hard to evaluate them. Maybe the more recent content will be helpful. pg 42, Risen comes in with a case on rayn, when there are no votes on him. So could be scum doing a false push, or town who is on the right track. Let's see how he follows up on this one. Risen's case is surprisingly solid. I apologize Risen. Maybe if you took out the parts where you point out filler (because most filters will have filler), it would have been easier to realize. In either case, Risen started his case, and received poor feedback from marv / clarity. Shameless self plug: On October 04 2013 06:23 slOosh wrote:Alright, someone who was there when it happened, maybe you can clear this up for me. Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 02:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well i do not think Sloosh is necessarily mafia. I do not think Risen is mafia.
I think Dirkzor is mafia.
I hope i am gonna be back before the deadline. cya fuckers! Regarding rayn, how did I go from 2nd scum read to "not necessarily mafia", despite not having posted (and from what I've skimmed no one really argued well for my towniness)? Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay so, i need to decide my vote now.
I prefer Dirkzor. Clarity you are bad or scum.
I guess my other options are Risen and Sloosh?
If i should switch marv tell me now who to switch on. I trust you the most. I don't wanna lynch Risen, i don't wanna lynch Sloosh either.. because they have not been here, and i can't tell what they are gonna say when they come back (if they do).
I don't accept Oats or marv as lynch. Likewise Risen was his 2nd top town read, and he holds some reservations about switching his vote onto me? How is me dying (opposed to Dirk) a bad scenario? You could argue that I'm angling for a potential rayn bus. ... yea you could. I'm gonna say I was distracted from having to explain all my scummy actions earlier on. On October 04 2013 08:12 marvellosity wrote:
Effectively slOosh has no scumreads, he proceeds to agree with me when I go after BH, then proceeds to agree with BH when BH claims doctor. True. This is actually true, as at the time I was scrambling to catch up and everything was too fast paced. pg 56 I drop my "i'm dying here's what I have" post. people start feeling feels, and the wagon is looking unsecure. Cue rayn's entry. Risen phone posting, looking to secure a lynch. See's BH pushing rayn wagon of justice, and is ok so joins. A stronger followup to his case would be more assuring, but it is totally understandable how little audience he has. pg 65 Risen indignant that Oats is saying he could be scum. I'd probably be that angry too. BH stole his thunder yo.
slOosh, Dirkzor, ???Why ??? because if I'm that wrong about Dirk then my opinions shouldn't have too much bearing 3 cycles later. I don't like a vengeful lynch on marv. Plus Dirk can flail some more with me out of the equation, and given the vast majority of town + sensible heads, shouldn't be too much of problem. p.s. paranoia says ??? should be marv because I have an unreasonable fear of his scum game, despite not actually having played against it.
On October 05 2013 08:02 slOosh wrote:
I want to lunch Dirkzor. Then I don't want to lunch anyone. Marv lunch is only up there because he is really good with ketchup, but he is not eating with ketchup today. He could be hiding it well, but then clarity, would notice because they are sharing a meal.
Based purely on rayn's departure, Risen is the least likely I would want to lunch. I don't even think it was a potentially well planned lunch between the two.
Holyflare and rayn did not eat lunch together well, so since rayn ate lunch HF doesn't.
Feeling good about Oats. Last time I wanted to lunch him so hard, but someone took it away from me. Probably the same thing here.
On October 06 2013 05:00 slOosh wrote:So I guess I wasted 2~3 hours on typing up a reread? Do you guys want a case with highlighting and line breaks or something? Why Dirkzor is scum.1) His inconsistency on HFHere is Oats' case on Dirk: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=25#493Here is Clarity's case on Dirk: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430498¤tpage=21#408These have been glossed over. I'm not going to bother rehashing them. If you are calling my scummy because you are declaring me clairvoyant, then you must concede the point that Dirk's initial actions are scummy. Then for the clairvoyant argument to hold, you must prove that his actions (after I say he looks town) actually exonerate him from his earlier suspicious activity. The fact is that people's primary town reads on him come stem from his case on me. ... I'm getting really tired of this.... Umm, ok Look into rayn's filter his initial vote is dirk, but you can see he doesn't really push him. It serves as fake contribution and distances the two apart, which you suspect scum to do to some degree. I'm getting pretty upset right now over the state of affairs, but I don't know how to engage in proper discussion in-game without verbal lashing, and I really don't want to do that. Ok, I'll just roll over and die. Seriously. I gave it my best shot after a shoddy d1, I gave an earnest effort with my game reread, people's perspective on Dirk is almost rooted in the fact that he made a "decent case" on me, to the point that they are overlooking his early problem which I'm getting crap for in an unreasonable way, and that won't be gone until I flip. So I'll flip. FWIW if you guys care about what I think post flip: ##Vote: Dirkzor
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slOosh was literally moving further and further away from a marv lynch as he was dying.
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"facts" are a funny thing, aren't they Risen?
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On October 10 2013 02:46 Risen wrote:
Then I was wrong. I've been operating under false pretenses and I will clear my mind. That doesn't mean what you've done isn't scummy, it just means I was wrong about sloosh.
It means you can't be trusted on to check your facts, at the *very best*. At the worst it's just one of many things you're twisting to make me look bad (the other obvious example being references to my past games).
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On October 10 2013 02:47 Dirkzor wrote:
I think it's between marv and Risen. What Risen is posting is scary close to what I think myself. If we lynch either Risen or Marv today I would lynch the other D4 no matter what most likely.
lol. you believe what Risen is saying despite the fact most of it is literally demonstrably untrue? Like, literally verifiably FALSE?
ok
##Vote: Dirkzor
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On October 10 2013 02:49 Dirkzor wrote:
HF: Can you see youself lynch marv at any point? (When I flip town. Or if Risen flips town)
If you get lynched, why would you want HF to lynch me, given your vote is on Risen?
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then why are you asking it?
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it's so weird
people have simultaneously WAY TOO MUCH respect for my scumgame, but in the same breath NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH respect for it.
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On October 10 2013 02:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
You are a paradox wrapped in a conundrum marv.
On one hand, people think i'm capable of faking a massive filter filled with emotion and interaction in a manner i've literally never come close to doing before
On the other hand, people believe that i'm bad enough to make the case on BH as mafia and look bad from a scum lynch on day 1 when i've literally never looked bad from a scum lynch in any of my mafia games ever
the two things don't go together very well :/
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This game is actually amazing.
Anyway, time to go workout
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On October 10 2013 03:07 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 02:51 Dirkzor wrote:On October 10 2013 02:48 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 02:47 Dirkzor wrote:
I think it's between marv and Risen. What Risen is posting is scary close to what I think myself. If we lynch either Risen or Marv today I would lynch the other D4 no matter what most likely. lol. you believe what Risen is saying despite the fact most of it is literally demonstrably untrue? Like, literally verifiably FALSE? ok ##Vote: Dirkzor I was making some of the same arguments in my "trap" or whatever you want to call them. They didn't come from logic but from fear of being played. Now Risen is agreeing with me. Most likely means he is scum, where my vote is. But that gut fear is still there and Risen is hitting it just right. I'm agreeing with you? No. Don't try and fucking twist this. I'm the one who made everything on marv, you have simply sheeped ME. I'm the only one who has pressured marv through this entire game. Everyone else backs down. Don't try and make me look shitty here. Why are you trying to make me look like I'm the one doing the sheeping when it's you? I'm not playing with a fear of being played, I'm pointing out that all of you are being played, but you seem pretty sure that marv is town to me from this. You're hedging your bets with your "I'm down to lynch marv or Risen" hoping to catch someone that will mislynch with you. In a game of five people, if your vote is on marv here, a top scum read for you, that's 2 people. One of Clarity and HF has to move over. Clarity has expressed that he won't but he did the same thing with rayn. HF has expressed doubt with marv openly in thread. So it can't be that you are afraid of not being able to grab someone. Like, literally, why aren't you voting marv here? Is it because you know marv and I are town so you are trying to play us off each other? I'm town. I know I'm town, so you give me the option of marv and say you've created the marv train in the hopes that I will accept that. I created it, though. It's been slowly rolling since n1 and his bullshit with saying how my vote swap was suspicious when it was the farthest thing from suspicious possible.
Like why does town marv think it's suspicious, I can't get over that, but it's the thing that's been holding me onto him this entire time. It's a strong only thing, though, like it's literally in my mind as town marv does not not see that. It's so glaring to me, but I know it's only glaring to me because I'm the only one who knows I'm town, so I have to find other things in his filter that are scummy but as far as I can tell it's only scummy the other things because I'm the one seeing it from my perspective. If I discount that then we have him making the same exact plays everyone else has been making and we have YOU. I also need to consider that a town Oats did the exact same thing as marv did. Marv can't even have sheeped onto it because marv was the first one to do it. I need to reread everything, but I'm moving my vote back to Dirk. ##unvote
##vote: Dirkzor
You look at the game of mafia as a whole very, very, very wrong if you think me being suspicious of you for moving your vote AWAY from me is a scummy thing. Why would a mafia player hammer at someone for making them look good? The reason I found it suspicious is because the Oats nightkill in no way looked enough to overturn your read on me, so it looked artificial. You can argue until you're blue in the face that it's logical, but it just isn't...
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Hands up who's really confident!
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indeed. we're set now though. all that talking and we're back where we started.
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I know I get mad sometimes, but Risen seems angry all the time :/
like we're all scummy bastards who need to die for talking about the game? it's so odd O.o
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I love the way you put the 2 colours that way round my dear.
screw autocorrect telling me colours is spelt wrong. it's my fucking language you impudent pile of shit.
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oh, you mean the sloosh-rayn-sloosh-rayn thing you did on day 1?
yeah you looked better for that than i remembered, i got that wrong.
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basically as i'd remembered it, your second move back to sloosh didn't make much sense to me, but it's explained by your phone thing as Dirk (:/) pointed out. You moved back to rayn for the last time when it was still possible either you or sloosh could get lynched, so meh, you look fine for that
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this is gonna take some serious convincing with me, Risen. Clarity and I have been kinda mind-melded the whole game :/
like there's not a chance i'm voting him today, at all
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mainly because i'm about to watch homeland with my other half and i have no time to think about anything anyway.
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sooner the better, Risen, i wanna read it
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On October 10 2013 18:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
Is it kinda weird that in rereading holyflare I kind of get sloosh's "clinically clean" feeling?
Like his early posting are kinda constructed, actually. Maybe it's just a style thing but his later posts are more relaxed and have a bit more emotion to them.
Not sure what to make of that.
Wasn't it Dirk who said that?
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The issue is, obviously, that there are really good reasons to call everyone left alive in the game town.
I can attach what I would usually consider really strong towntells to everyone left.
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I'd forgotten I'd had those interactions with Risen in Noir, makes some of the stuff in this game pretty funny.
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On October 10 2013 18:38 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 18:32 marvellosity wrote:
The issue is, obviously, that there are really good reasons to call everyone left alive in the game town.
I can attach what I would usually consider really strong towntells to everyone left. Can you explain one for each of us please? Am especially curious about Risen, where for me most of the game it's been "too crazy to be scum".... of course there is some voting stuff that speaks in his favour...
I talked about Holyflare yesterday, but basically
- natural, non scum-scum looking interactions with rayn
- mega try-hard post on day 1
- really led the lynch on rayn with BH. If that was bussing, it wasn't just bussing it was BUSSING, if you get my drift.
Clarity
- mindmeld with marv
- most active player in the game apart from me, constantly involved
Risen
- shitfight and reactions to Oats look really townie "never playing with you again" stuff. This would be 100% townie if Risen didn't think I could pull similar stuff off as mafia, therefore the fact he thinks I can pull it off as mafia (when I can't) means that he probably can
- voting actually looks good for him d1, not kinda meh like i thought previously, + his previous case on rayn
- unbelievably, unbelievably self-centred style of thinking when attacking me as mafia based on the Oats nightkill. He spent a paragraph telling me how i was thinking about what Risen would think, it was just so absurd.
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Sometimes Risen is bad, sometimes he's good, but he's pretty consistently pig-headed in all the games I've ever played with him.
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On October 10 2013 18:49 Clarity_nl wrote:
Your last point on Risen is really good....
Here's the thing about Risen though, if I make a case on someone exclaiming I am super confident they are scum and they flip town, I lose confidence. This has happened to Risen like 2.5 times... How does he manage to, yet again, exclaim that he's solved the game and is super confident in me being scum before even making a case, again.....
I understand I'm not Risen and he clearly thinks differently than I do but it's not like he's incapable of learning
tbh it's why I want to see what he's got. I can't judge anything or him without seeing what's in his brain atm.
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Holy really has been away a long time now... ugh :<
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Your last post was at 7pm
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you'll have to forgive me, i'm pretty jittery.
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On October 10 2013 19:44 Holyflare wrote:
The more i see clarity hint at my scumminess the more I'm inclined to think he is scum, your post on why people are town, he has the least reasons to be etc etc want to wait for risen and then draw my conclusions
Even though Clarity seems to be settling on Risen rather than you?
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That's not how your posting reads to me, you're generally too aggressive.
Cephiro's (few) posts in Noir I would term as "clean", they fooled enough players.
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On October 10 2013 19:53 Holyflare wrote:
Well that's just silly
it is slightly, as much as i will rage at anyone who calls me mafia, if there's only 3 players left i have to expect i'm going to be under scrutiny after all
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On October 10 2013 19:54 Holyflare wrote:
Because i will fight for 48 hours to prove it's not me, not like these clowns did
I love this attitude.
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I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't Holy tbh.
WHICH MEANS WE 100% KILL HOLY IF HE IS ALIVE TOMORROW !!!!!!!!!!1234395849038509486504683045834128361
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(not serious)
I do expect Holy to die, but i'm not gonna kill him for being alive. Especially now that I've mentioned it. lol
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On October 10 2013 20:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
I thought you were talking about who the last scum was.
I do think the night kill will be very telling tonight.
I expect it to be me though, why do you think it'll be holy?
Risen is suspicious of you
I've been leaning on Risen, but fencesitting like a boss
Holy leaning very slightly on you?
I've been "scummy"/under pressure all game
Holy looks least suspicious to other players, least lynchable.
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if people have different interpretations, i'm all ears. not sure how fruitful it is to talk about who's gonna die, because who's gonna die is gonna die I imagine :p
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P.S. mafia, don't do something stupid like hold your kill, because we'll no-lynch in MYLO and the hosts will make you kill. Just sayin'.
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On October 10 2013 20:25 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 20:13 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 20:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
I thought you were talking about who the last scum was.
I do think the night kill will be very telling tonight.
I expect it to be me though, why do you think it'll be holy? Risen is suspicious of you I've been leaning on Risen, but fencesitting like a boss Holy leaning very slightly on you? I've been "scummy"/under pressure all game Holy looks least suspicious to other players, least lynchable. If Risen is scum he'll kill me over holy because if he kills holy he's dead.If Holy is scum he cannot kill holy. If I'm scum... yeah I probably kill holy. That was my analysis without saying it earlier, but now you're saying holy is the likely night kill and I don't understand how you got to that conclusion.
no, he's not going to kill the guy he's going to try to lynch at lylo. that makes no sense to me at all. he will kill holy and hope to overcome my bias.
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On October 10 2013 20:30 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 20:28 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 20:25 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 10 2013 20:13 marvellosity wrote:On October 10 2013 20:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
I thought you were talking about who the last scum was.
I do think the night kill will be very telling tonight.
I expect it to be me though, why do you think it'll be holy? Risen is suspicious of you I've been leaning on Risen, but fencesitting like a boss Holy leaning very slightly on you? I've been "scummy"/under pressure all game Holy looks least suspicious to other players, least lynchable. If Risen is scum he'll kill me over holy because if he kills holy he's dead.If Holy is scum he cannot kill holy. If I'm scum... yeah I probably kill holy. That was my analysis without saying it earlier, but now you're saying holy is the likely night kill and I don't understand how you got to that conclusion. no, he's not going to kill the guy he's going to try to lynch at lylo. that makes no sense to me at all. he will kill holy and hope to overcome my bias. Right, killing you makes more sense for a scum risen, my point is he wouldn't kill holy I don't think.
your point was that you expected to die... yet you think Risen is mafia? that doesn't make sense.
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this is why talking about nks is counterproductive. let's stop
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wifomwifomwifomwifomwifom
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that sucks, i'm not gonna have time to do/think about anything properly until the hours leading up until deadline :/
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it's a thursday! go out drinking at the weekend, young tyke
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Only young people go out drinking on Thursdays :/
Is there anything you particularly need/want me to talk about/look at in the meantime?
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On October 10 2013 21:16 Holyflare wrote:Just objectively look at clarity's filter and tell me if it's different from normal town games. I've only looked at him in apeture where he was scum and it seemed pretty similar to this game. Everyday is drinking day for the unemployed
I have actually spent time in Clarity's filter this game, and it "feels" normal. Honestly after Aperture I'm not 100% sure how to distinguish town and scum-Clarity (I wonder if Clarity could say?) so I'm left with him sharing my thoughts soooooooo often. Like it might look similar to Aperture - if you have time and want my recommendation for town-games of Clarity's to flick through, might I suggest Titanic and Mario?
My "plan" for later is to pull a Dirk and read day 1 lynch stuff again, because for the first time in the game I know with certainty that mafia bussed mafia on day 1. That's significant information (for me most of all as i have no doubts about myself. hopefully.)
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On October 10 2013 21:28 Holyflare wrote:
Dude what, reading titanic, his town play is WAY WAY different to this
explain it to me like i'm a babe
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Alright. I'll try to find time to look later with what you've said in mind.
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On October 11 2013 00:49 Risen wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would want me to post my case anytime before the end of the night. That's stupid.
because being able to discuss the case while everyone is alive is worth more than whatever nightkill shit you think you're avoiding?
like, only if the case is on not-Clarity would what you say even start to make sense :/
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On October 11 2013 01:18 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:51 marvellosity wrote:On October 11 2013 00:49 Risen wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would want me to post my case anytime before the end of the night. That's stupid. because being able to discuss the case while everyone is alive is worth more than whatever nightkill shit you think you're avoiding? like, only if the case is on not-Clarity would what you say even start to make sense :/ What? No. Posting it sooner gives Clarity more chances to base his kill around the case
Explain how that even begins to makes sense? Even theoretically, how would revealing the contents of the case change the kill?
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meh, I'm away from some hours now anyways.
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On October 11 2013 06:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
You say you read aperture and it looks the same but that means you didn't read closely enough (and/or are scum).
In aperture I found someone to call scum and I would call them scum until I couldn't get away with it anymore because they were obvious town or they died. Does that sound like this game?
Explain me hammering rayn instead of no-lynching/staying on sloosh especially after I shouted I did not want to lynch rayn all day. If I were scum there's no way I switch after stating I am against a rayn lynch that badly because I like to stay consistent as scum.
Because if you did this you're an auto-lynch when rayn does actually flip. And you couldn't rely on me not being there and not hammering and making you look terrible.
you cannot argue Holy is mafia, he made you switch!
On October 04 2013 08:57 Holyflare wrote:
Clarity you said you liked sloosh's post to save himself. Why not switch then?
On October 04 2013 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
##unvote
##vote rayn
-.-
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I'm looking at 3 of you
1 made the case on rayn and ended up voting after some hokey cokey (Risen)
1 switched right at the end when another asked him to (Clarity)
1 person helped push another to the lynch (Holy)
Of the 3, it makes so little sense for Holy to be mafia. He's my strongest townread easily now.
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On October 11 2013 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +1 switched right at the end when another asked him to (Clarity)
1 person helped push another to the lynch (Holy) This is just misrepresenting what happened.
Put it this way. It's 4-4.
Holyflare as mafia asks Clarity as town to switch to his team-mate.
I'm not seeing it
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I literally cannot reconcile a scum Holy with how the lynch went down though.
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On October 11 2013 07:17 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 07:13 marvellosity wrote:
I literally cannot reconcile a scum Holy with how the lynch went down though. Yet you find it easy to see me as scum"feeling forced" to hammer rayn? The actions of all three of you during the day 1 lynch make no real sense from scum, yet I know for a fact I am town so scum made a play.
Easier than how Holy acted, yea. What you did is plausible for why I already said
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Risen can do ANYTHING as scum.
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Anyway I just popped in, I'm not home for another hour or so (at bf's).
Holy, I'll go for a drink with you sometime. I'm in London in a couple days actually, but sadly not tonight ;p
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On October 11 2013 07:21 Clarity_nl wrote:=/ Have you ever seen risen put this much effort into a game as scum? Like, his recent behavior just makes him look like his game of thrones opening post which was like 8 paragraphs worth and called 5 people scum. There was a lot of effort there.
Check out LIII. There's a lot of words there.
Back before deadline.
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On October 11 2013 07:50 Clarity_nl wrote:
marv put it like this, pretend you're me in that day 1 lynch (you basically were, stance on sloosh/dirk/rayn was the same, only different stance on risen I think), would you have switched to rayn? Would you have done it earlier than me, even if you didnt believe in the lynch?
I had doubts on sloosh because of his deathpost yet d2 you convinced me that it's just one post among scumminess.....
I yelled for a risen lynch over rayn for as long as I could simply because I was being practical about who would be more useful, and didn't really like either one as likely to hit scum.
What would you have done differently?
these hypotheticals are slightly silly because i can't tell exactly... but... although I said on day 1 i didn't think rayn was a good lynch for that day, in a followup summary post, I called rayn and BH big fat nulls.
with rayn coming in and trolling town near lynch and slOosh's death post looking genuine, i don't think my vote would have been moving back to slOosh over rayn like you did.
I've actually had fairly strong feelings about who is mafia all day, and although I desperately want it not to be, I'm pretty sure it's you Clarity. Like I feel both terrible about it and also really good about it being you.
It's funny, you made a post a little while ago "I'm consistent as mafia" - well, that was your problem in the day 1 lynch, as far as I can tell. You were nowhere near flexible enough to vote for rayn at a time when you should have been voting for rayn. Voting a sincere slOosh over a trolling rayn is actually just inflexible. You bussed and it carried you this far, but you didn't quite manage to make the decision in the timeframe you needed to.
I also think you killed Oats because you needed to justify yourself being alive and you wanted me alive because of "mindmeld". I think the Oats kill was by "correct" standards irrational, and I think you made an error in judgement in killing Oats because you were worried how you'd appear later.
Further I think you've been casting about today not knowing who is mafia because you know none of us is mafia. At this stage of the game, Holy, Risen, and I all look very townie for hilariously different reasons, so any push on any of us looks terrible. But as a townie, I *know* that someone I had a strong townread on had to be mafia, and my gut told me it was you. In many ways you are like mini-me this game, but actually that's just a fucking indictment of how superficially, how casually I've played this game despite my enormous, shitty filter.
You've had the safety of being considered widely town, unlike me, and yet you've failed to be aggressive like it's pointed out you usually are as town.
In the end my reasons for calling you town were weakest (as holy noted) and are actually more of a damnation of my play than anything else. So there we have it.
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On October 11 2013 08:53 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +Further I think you've been casting about today not knowing who is mafia because you know none of us is mafia. At this stage of the game, Holy, Risen, and I all look very townie for hilariously different reasons, so any push on any of us looks terrible You've been the fucking same -.-
On October 11 2013 08:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've actually had fairly strong feelings about who is mafia all day, and although I desperately want it not to be, I'm pretty sure it's you Clarity. Like I feel both terrible about it and also really good about it being you.
No, I've thought you were mafia all day.
Thing is, if I'm wrong and you are town, then one of Holy and Risen is wrong about you as well, because one of them must be town. All 3 of us have reached the same conclusion with different methodology.
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If you stay on slOosh there you just indict yourself fully. That's the thing.
You don't have my handy afk excuse :p
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One person was bussing is the thing. And yours looks quite easily the worst.
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No, I don't think you constructed your play to sound like me (I think that's a bit of a reach on Risen's part). I just think I said a lot of obvious shit and you also said a lot of obvious shit. Holy's meta points on you are actually quite decent.
You never had to deal with all the pressure I've dealt with all game, yet you've never done that much with the space.
Thing is, we can argue about it until the cows came home.
And in another game you might even convince me, if I didn't haev such massive reasons to think Holy and Risen were town. I'm just hoping I'm right.
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On October 11 2013 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
There is no way I kill Oats. You were talking me into an oats/sloosh + dirk/risen lynch, why the fuck would I remove tomorrow's mislynch????
why would anyone?
that's not part of a case on you, that's just my feelings on what occurred. there's no arguing for or against that bit really.
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On October 11 2013 09:00 Clarity_nl wrote:
You were hardly pressured this game what are you even talking about.
Risen? Dirkzor? BlazingHand? Even Oats for a moment?
How many people have you had calling for your head?
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EPT
