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On February 10 2014 12:22 iGrok wrote:
Everyone pushing to ban Coag for a "seal" is an idiot. YOU CANNOT BAN FOR WIFOM.
Everyone pushing to ban Coag for a "seal" is an idiot. YOU CANNOT BAN FOR WIFOM.
Um hate to disagree on a point of pedantry but "YOU CANNOT BAN FOR WIFOM." actually 'we' could.
'we' could ban everyone with K in their login name....:O
it would be nuts, but we could do it.....
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Also not sure me saying we or you saying you, is quite right as unless GM says 'yep' its not happening... and GM isn't stupid, or wasn't the last time I checked so....
On February 11 2014 04:03 Coagulation wrote:
I find it amusing how emotionally split tlmafia is on the issue.
I find it amusing how emotionally split tlmafia is on the issue.
I find it <blink blink>
Life and mafia are WAY more complex than that.
I think mafia is meant to be "Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions."
I think that because it is the first sentence of many OPs,
but then I read OPs
Both Grushes Starsense and your seal of approval + Show Spoiler +
BTW it was news to me and I had not noticed you only post it as town... Go me ... meta reading Coag like a Boss not.
Appear somewhat and directly incompatible with the 'guessing' part. It really would seem like you and grush were not quite playing the same game as the rest of the people were.
However one of the interesting things about mafia and all such interpersonal process games is the full variety of tactics people can use. What is also interesting to me is observing not just how a game is played by a person, with a personal strategy, but also how strategies evolve over time. They also evolve individually and as a group. The fraction of the player base that currently lurks as town, has real implications for what other strategies other people will find personally beneficial to adopt.
If I dive off into evolution for a sec, sickle cell anemia is bad for you (its an inherited recessive genetic disease.) and it shortens your life span.... It really ought evolve out of existence except...
unless you live in an area with malaria in which case then having one copy of the recessive gene is a favored condition (grants partial immunity(reduces severity) to malaria).
Depending on how much malaria there is will control what density of sickle cell genes will be stable as the risk of having the disease (two genes) is balanced by the benefit for the larger number of people with one.
Everybody posting seals of approval and lurking like a MOFO, is not playing mafia.
Is one person per forum, adopting that strategy a recessive enough condition that it may benefit the person more than it draws them the ire of their peers. Time will tell.
What I find amusing/interesting is that Coag finds it fun to play game and waste(from my perspective) even the small amount of whatever he puts into the game by backing himself into a meta where he no longer has the opportunity to play the game and live by his own wits, now he has to post the seal or die. I am not sure I am seeing the fun, but I am not Coag and apparently, it is, floating his boat.
@Grush
@Coag.
BTW when grush tried to stop posting his starsense he found town compelled him to by threatening to lynch him.
If Grush Coag or anyone finds themselves backed into a meta corner (of any kind) and cant see how to get out and make their game fun for themselves again PM, me. Normally there is an obvious way when you think about it right.
Grush for instance tried refusing to post it and was threatened with the lynch, he caved as he was town.
What he need to do was pay the price and get lynched a number of times as town.(which is maybe a bit against Wincon kinda sorta. (well it feels wrong))
or
The real (brave) solution was to state pregame that from now on he would post it no matter what his alignment. And then post it every game until he rolled scum a few times.
Are Starsense and seals of approval things I want to play with?
I think mafia is meant to be "Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions."
They do however appear to have generated an epic levels of controversy... so they are less uninteresting than lurking so bad you get modkilled, so they are not my least favorite thing by quite some distance. They might not even make the top five.
That ^^^ was said as a player:
Also when acting as a host, if after I have balanced game, a player signs up and rolls mafia, who has such seal/(ANY purposeful trivial meta tell) they are a purposeful dead weight to scum and a benefit to town as they are effectively an innocent/guilty child added to my setup. So let me just say that when I host a game, if that is your meta and you sign up, you better hope I like you personally (as I find you add to my games host_wincon+ Show Spoiler +
Yes hosts have a wincon, its good game that was fun and balanced and stuff.
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Note: Just to be clear how unpersonal it is. I have pondered how I would/could/should balance games when players such as Hapa, might sign up who have very different capabilities as town and scum.That distinction is not a purposeful arbitrarily and trivially implementable one as posting some specific tell but then, when scum, refusing to play to your town meta. So I have no problem with such people signing up as its not really a choice they made. Signing up players who have chosen to make it harder me to run a good game with them in it, is more problematic for me.
It is however the same genera of problem its just one I can see I already have to have ways to cope with. (although seals raise it up a notch, and make an existing problem worse.)
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It is however the same genera of problem its just one I can see I already have to have ways to cope with. (although seals raise it up a notch, and make an existing problem worse.)
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Note if you want to ban Coag, for playing against wincon then do it when he plays scum and purposefully wont play to his town meta, and hence effectively claims scum.
And then there is ...
On February 10 2014 20:27 Acrofales wrote:
This whole discussion is retarded. If someone doesn't want to play as scum, there is really no way of enforcing it. Plenty of people get caught out as scum, because they just plain give up. Are we going to be dishing out bans for those people as well?
Starsenses, baby seals, etc. etc. aren't bannable: they're policy lynch material. Deal with it ingame, not by QQing on the ban list.
This whole discussion is retarded. If someone doesn't want to play as scum, there is really no way of enforcing it. Plenty of people get caught out as scum, because they just plain give up. Are we going to be dishing out bans for those people as well?
Starsenses, baby seals, etc. etc. aren't bannable: they're policy lynch material. Deal with it ingame, not by QQing on the ban list.
which while true, does not quite turn out the same, as failure to post seals does not prove townieness. You cant insist in game "That SealPosterChild immediately post seals if they are scum, or we wont lynch you!!! There take that!"
As such those things kinda breaks the game less. But yes people giving up when they're scum is a problem, even the same problem, and it has no rule based solution.
But if everyones going to do that then there is no game to be played as we all sign up and say so "who rolled scum?"
<Some one posts baby seals> <we lynch them> then we go again... (not seeing the fun)
There is in some sense a social contract and responsibility that you have entered into when you signed up, with your other players (even those on the opposing team) that you will not just piss their time and commitment down the drain and that you make game of it, by trying at least a bit.
Also just to clarify at some point posting baby seals is for some players the best strategy once they are 'caught', as they in their own judgment will just give more association tells(spew?) if they don't.
but yes some players cave quite early and seem not to try to play scum. (or RL burned them, when they happened to be scum, I can never tell which is which. I played scum badly in ego.(worse than i could have at the time if I had time and energy.))
Addendum (added much later) + Show Spoiler [The other Side] +
Arlo Guthrie.... once said.
Listen from there (13:13) out to 16:00 ...
