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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Play nice. Between the four of you, there is enormous thread-shitting potential, and how town does in this game is going to be determined by how well everyone can get along together. If you are town, stop with the antagonism. Going around and burning every bridge you can in this game is not how Day 1 is played. ##Vote Debears Of all the people in the thread so far, Debears' push on Sciberia bothers me the most. I really don't understand the suspicions on scib all that much, and he's firmly null in my mind. On August 29 2013 13:19 debears wrote: #vote scibs his game reminds me of his scum game. I see a divide btw him and rayn. I definitely dony see both as scum. this smurf tonka stuff seems to be overreaction, but ill let if go yo see who it truly be. Ill look over scribs posts better later tonight when not drunk <3 hopeless The bolded is completely random and unsubstantiated. Reminds me of his scum-game is such a cop-out read, much less when it's unexplained to everyone else in the thread. On August 29 2013 13:26 debears wrote: Also, a 95% town read is full retard early d1 is full retard as town. As scum, its dumb but it has motivations (avoid early conflict, make friend of someone who apparently is consider3d bad town). Vote scribs guise So according to this, debears doesn't care whether Scib is dumb town or scum. He mentions both, then uses it as a justification to vote. That's pretty darrrrrn scummy. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 29 2013 19:12 Oatsmaster wrote: debears was apparently drunk hapa, does that help in understanding his posts? Cause I totally dont get debears 2nd post that you quoted. Drunk-posting isn't alignment indicative. As far as that 2nd post is concerned, yes it's worded a bit wonky, but I think the motivations displayed are scummy. As far as I understand it... On August 29 2013 13:26 debears wrote: Also, a 95% town read is full retard early d1 is full retard as town. "Scib's read is really stupid as town" As scum, its dumb but it has motivations (avoid early conflict, make friend of someone who apparently is consider3d bad town). "Scib's read is really stupid as scum, but there's some motivations for it as scum" Vote scribs guise Therefore... vote scib. I really don't get it. Perhaps debears is drunk off his ass and just posted something completely terrible, but the push itself is really bad. We'll see how he reacts in the morning. In the mean time, voting someone because he gave an early-town read out is absurd. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 29 2013 19:14 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, for you I'm not going to respond to Oats' shitpost right there. Hapa, you don't buy debears being drunk? Or you do buy it but you don't think it excuses what he wrote? Strong enough for a vote even? Also I read this as "it's retarded as both alignments, but has motivations for one alignment, ergo he's that alignment" no? Oh. Uhhh... yeah that actually makes more sense. Regardless, I still find the vote/logic absolutely terrible. I'll keep my vote on until I get a sober answer out of debears and/or I find a better candidate. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 29 2013 19:21 Oatsmaster wrote: ... Hapa wanna lynch marv? Why would I want to do that? I'm actually leaning town on marv because he seems legitimately impatient/offended at the people attacking him. And not in a scum-marv "holier than thou" way. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 29 2013 19:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Why so defensive hapa? How so? I really don't understand how it's possible for me to be defensive when you're not pressuring me =/ Would you vote for tuntonka? So far, no. His mindset-shift on Rayn struck me as really town: On August 29 2013 08:46 Tutankoopa wrote: rayn, here is what happened in chonological order 1. Sno posted. 2. You voted for him, 4 minutes after his post. 3. Then you say that based on his first post, Sno is town. explain? On August 29 2013 08:49 Tutankoopa wrote: actually nvm rayn ##unvote Something like that shows that he's thinking about his reads and isn't desperate to tunnel someone. I think a good scum-player *could* fake that, but I'd put my money on it being a genuine town-mindset for now. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 29 2013 19:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Rayn already didnt want to explain his 180 to both me and yamato, why would he explain it to Tutan? I assume that Tutan saw the responses to me and yamato already and withdrew his question. It looks to me like he posted his initial case, then realized that he was barking up the wrong tree. I had much the same reaction to reading Rayn's opening barrage of posts. "Oookay interesting vote on SnO... wait wut he think's Sno is town?!? How does that make any goddamn sense?" "Oh wait that's the most absurdly attention-whorey move ever, seems townie." Also wasnt tuntankoopa's vote a policy vote anyway? So once the policy got no traction, UNVOTE. I dont see any evidence of Tutan thinking that rayn was scum. I agree that it was mostly a random early-game policy vote. How is retracting an early-game policy vote scummy? Anyway, Tutan can give a defense for himself. No sense in me doing his job for him this early int he game. Bah. I've stayed up waaaaay too late, and I need to go to bed. | ||
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Hapahauli
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You have two posts commenting on reads so far, but you haven't given any concrete opinions. You've criticized several statements/posts so far but haven't offered anything of your own. Do you have any strong reads any which way right now? | ||
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Hapahauli
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@ Debears That sciberia case is an absolute trainwreck. On August 30 2013 03:07 debears wrote: Ok I see what you mean from this post Still, that leaves other questions: - why has his scumhunting been lacking? - why does he have a 95% town read on you on day 1? - why is he speculating on the third party? Those 3 things are still scum oriented, even if you discount his weird defending himself against you. Of the three, the first is the only one that could be allignment indicative. And even then, saying that "someone hasn't scumhunted" is the most confirmation-biased possible read there is. In fact, you do point out "his posts on you" in your case on him. It seems like he has scum-hunted, but you aren't happy with his analysis as opposed to objectively considering his contributions. @ Yamato On August 30 2013 01:49 yamato77 wrote: I'm really only interested in figuring out the alignments of Marv and Hapa, because if they are town they will figure the rest of you out and we'll win the game. If they are scum we lynch them and the game becomes far easier to figure out. So forgive me for ignoring everyone else, my posts will be focused on them. You're someone that can be considered a town-leader in your own right, and I'd expect more of a contribution on Day 1 than this. First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours. What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. Marv sounds very bitchy to me. In fact, it sounds as if his emotions are a bit out of control when responding to things. When marv is scum, he says things that people want to hear, and doesn't antagonize the vocal town population. It sounds like you two got into a fight, and your ego's are preventing both of you from backing down from each other. Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town. If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. Really? I haven't gone after someone early on in the other 70 games I've played with you? | ||
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On August 30 2013 05:08 debears wrote: Hi Hapa dappa doo. Hapa lets do a check list on scribs contributions - a 95% town read (raynp) - a null read (TK) - two twoliner scumreads on sn0 and yamato this All that above is more than what 50% of the thread has done so far in terms of content. Also, you seem to be trapping him in this cycle more than anything. Most of his time has been spent defending himself from you, and in-spite of being on the back foot I see him pursuing his reads (such as on Yamato). I mean how the hell do you even defend a "has not scumhunted" case 12 hours into the game? Also, you know very well that town should have no interest whatsoever in any possible third party speculation in most setups, this one included. I'm kinda suprised that you would say it's not alignment indicative whatsoever. Third-party speculation is completely non-allignment indicative. If he's hunting third-parties and completely fixated on them, that's a different story. Just pondering the existence of one is no big deal, especially since he brought the point up while discussion of setup-speculation. And that leaves this question hapa: What is your read on raynp? I gave it before: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=13#249 | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 05:17 debears wrote: That is not a read on raynp Scum, Town, Null? Town "Oookay interesting vote on SnO... wait wut he think's Sno is town?!? How does that make any goddamn sense?" "Oh wait that's the most absurdly attention-whorey move ever, seems townie." | ||
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Hapahauli
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Do you not read what I post? The 180 he did is so absurdly attention-grabby, and makes incredibly very little sense as scum. As scum, you want to vote someone and justify it to look "clean." Rayn certainly can spam a thread to hell as either allignment, but going in, voting someone, then 180'ing on it right away on such strong terms is incredibly attention-grabby and not something I'd think a scum would go into a thread and plan. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 05:20 Tutankoopa wrote: Hapa, did you see my question? On August 30 2013 05:07 Tutankoopa wrote: Do you have an opinion about what this post says about his alignment? It's certainly a candid post but nothing that sways me either way by itself. Right now I'm trying to determine if debears' push on syl is malicious or confirmation-biased. I'm leaning towards the latter right now, but still not 100% sure. Regardless, he's not scummy enough to have my vote on him ##Unvote | ||
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On August 30 2013 05:29 debears wrote: You guys are no fun......how do you both go from scum to dumb town at the same time on me  The point of this post was to get a number from you, but you clearly must have a 95% town read on him also. Good to know Numbers are stupid... as if you can "quantify" someone's alignment. But yes, I have a fairly strong town-read on Rayn. Is that relevant in some way? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 05:29 Tutankoopa wrote: You're obviously the worst person to ask this but would you have still unvoted debears about now had I not asked you that question? I probably would have kept the screws on a bit more and then unvoted. Can't say for certain how our conversation would have ended up though. | ||
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On August 30 2013 02:22 Onegu wrote: I actually agree with this post alot, and it gives me heavy town read from yamato, as I have only played with him being mafia and he had zero posts like this. I dont know thier meta as well as alot of people, but I do like how hapa called me out with reasons, while marv just said I would be the second person he would lynch because he doesnt know where I am going. Can you explain your heavy-town read on Yamato? What do you mean by "zero posts like this?" You seemed to have the opposite reaction to that post compared to most other people in the thread. Also, you seem to be suspicious of marv - can you give more concrete/clear reasons? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am actaully interested in hearing who you think is scum Hapa. Right now i have no idea. Hopeless is probably my strongest scum-read at this stage. His push on TK seems very forced, and he seems more interested in piling shit on TK as opposed to questioning him and trying to figure out TK's alignment. This for example... On August 30 2013 01:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Bearing in mind that I think Tutan is scum, in regards to the questions that TK has ignored from Rayn 1) He used that wording, and that entire post to draw more attention to the policy and less to why I actually think he's scum. 2) Pretend Oats isn't in that quote at all. Its still a load of wishywashy summary crap. I'm "weird" and me and yamato can't both be scum. [marv, this is what you like? herpderp maybe yam or you scum. nowait Hapa inactive or something hes scum] 3) I'd actually chalk that up to early trolling more than anything else. ...is just shit-flinging. Hopless is in attack-mode and doing little else. I really don't understand the confidence that Hopeless has in his early game TK read, much less confident enough to not ask a single question to TK all game so far and simply push for TK's lynch. This interaction in particular is really worrying for me: On August 30 2013 01:52 Tutankoopa wrote: Hopeless, look me in the eye and tell me that you think this post... ...implies a serious intent to lynch. If it doesn't, your entire case against me falls apart. How long are you going to keep pretending like you have a real case? On August 30 2013 01:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Welp theres my case falling apart guys. He got me. I'll go die of dehydration now. TK comes in with a pretty reasonable point and fairly calm-attitude, and Hopeless (with little provocation) responds with this biting sarcasm and basically ignores the point completely. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 05:52 Hopeless1der wrote: My reasons for voting TK do not (nor have they ever) hinged upon the fact that he sheeped yamato's "policy" vote. Every time TK tries to respond to me, he says "but i wasnt really going to push him". No shit sherlock (insert sarcastic responses here). My issue with your push on TK is that you don't seem at all interested in finding out his allignment. Surely you aren't so sure that he's scum 12 hours into the day that you're just willign to go attack-dog mode on him? | ||
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On August 30 2013 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dunno Hapa, he has been ignoring the point all game long and it has been pointed out multiple times. Why would he do that as mafia? I mean ignore something that obvious a townie said? Who are you talking about? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Uh... then I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you're referring to him "ignoring" TK's defense, I think that's plenty scummy. | ||
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On August 30 2013 06:01 Hopeless1der wrote: You just stopped halfway through your thought process. Does not compute. Do you think that "stopping halfway through one's thought process" is a 100% damning scum-tell? | ||
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Hapahauli
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For example, Onegu and Syl are pretty lynch-baity types. Onegu seems like he's trying to contribute, but for whatever reason it's coming across as awkward. He's definetely +1'ing a lot of posts, but I really don't think that's malicious. Gut-read town on him. Sylencia I get some scum-vibes from. He's always pretty lurky, but I'm used to him being more forceful/articulate with his reads. So when I see something like this... On August 29 2013 16:30 Sylencia wrote: Sn0, not really - reading his second post makes it look like he skimmed the thread, unvoted and went off to sleep or something. If he was around for hours I would've expected more than 2 posts there. debears - Agreed, mainly so far just due to the fact he's pushing on a lynch based on an exaggerated statement - at least I assume it was exaggerated. Given the rest of the post I'm quoting, maybe it's not but I saw it as being exaggerated. yamato - He's not avoiding discussion (I think), I just think his read on marv is weak. It sets off some alarm bells. None of these are really... reads. Maybe the debears one could be considered a read, but he even back-tracks on himself and discredits himself while making it. Also, after seemingly defending Sn0 above, he turns around and comes back finding Sn0 suspicious for the same reasons that he disagreed with Scib on: On August 29 2013 21:44 Sylencia wrote: What's PoE, and what a brave self-incriminating sentence if you were scum. Too bad I don't see anything really different to your P4 play That said, Sn0 is on the list for the same reason as FT. They both read, then both post crap a few hours later with the implication that they've read everything and then leave. In Sn0's case he says he finds himself satisfied with his vote, meaning he found something scummy with scrib, but then unvotes saying it was utter bs and leaves. That's a really huge shift in tone from the previous posts. In his previous post, he passively and wishy-washily disagrees with Sciberia on his Sn0 read, then all of a sudden in this post, basically mimic's Scib's logic and seemingly finds Sn0 to be a strong scum-read. On a seperate note, Yamato falls into this null category for me right now. His early-game posting gave me town-vibes initially (sarcastic, fearless - more of a meta-thing). However he's done very little this game other than a) antagonize marv and b) make this terrible post about myself/marv and only being concerned about our allignments. Really he just hasn't done anything this game. I'm leaning scum, but we'll see what he comes up with when he gets back. | ||
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On August 30 2013 06:11 marvellosity wrote: Hey all, weird shit going on. A few things before I forget Hapa - what do you think of debears' comments on the 'scumcity' post from Onegu? Also (and genuine question I'd like answered) how are you feeling in general about this game so far? ... I don't think that post by debears (on Onegu) says much. I do like the fact that he was willing to substantiate some other of his reads while stuck in a mad-tunnel on Sciberia, but I think the content could come from scum or town debears. As far as his game goes, he seems aggressive right now, which is good. Looking back on his Sciberia tunnel, there seems to be a "madness" about it that I associate with a town mindset. He's constantly peppering scib with questions, and while he's stubborn as a mule about it, he's constantly trying to figure out scib's allignment and even gets pissed when scib ignores him. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote: Town anyone should have followed through with the questions to rayn instead of citing "this is stupid" and jumping ship with their vote in tow. If he'd have allowed for even one more post from rayn before unvoting I probably wouldnt be here, but I interpret his actions as being scared to have his vote parked, lest someone (me...) think he was serious about wanting to lynch rayn. That's a wholly scum motivated thought process based on thread context at the time of his unvote imo. Thing is, I really don't understand how that's a scum-motivated thought process. Where is the scum-motivation in literally giving up a free tunnel? It's just as easy for scum to sit there and keep tunneling Rayn, but instead it seems like he realized a mistake and backed off. Though you seem incessantly stubborn on this point, so I'm not sure how much you can be convinced off of it. Do you have any scum-reads other than TK? Why are you not asking TK any questions? Are you 100% certain he's scum? Because you're acting like it. | ||
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On August 30 2013 06:27 marvellosity wrote: Not his game, this game, I was after your general feelings about how the game as a whole has gone so far. Not the best town-atmosphere in the world, but it's OK for now. Atleast discussion is happening, even if there's more bickering than I'd like. It's within the realm of a normal early D1, and this game will be won or lost in the work done in the next 72-96 hours or so. I will say that I am *very* worried about how this town can function with some of its vocal, calmer members get killed early on. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Can you comment on this Hopeless thing? Also, comments on my Syl/Onegu/Yamato thoughts from above would be appreciated. | ||
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On August 30 2013 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote: ... @Hapa Rayn and Oats have already asked/brought up concerns I had, so I would have been parroting them if I asked more questions. I'm not 100% convinced, but he's my strongest read. I don't have legit scumreads formed on anyone else yet. Mostly lurkers bothering me and debears being silly. I figure I'm in a similar boat to your feelings on him. Maybe not so strong as you. Well now's the time to ask him some questions since you and TK are both in the thread. Give the guy something specific to respond to, and we can go from there. This lack of communication on both sides isn't helping anyone. | ||
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On August 30 2013 06:54 marvellosity wrote: I'm stuck in his filter currently, I think I'm being dumb because I'm finding it tremendously difficult to work out how he's hopped around, even with his own explanations I have written down that I think the post you quoted in your case looks worse as a standalone than in context - he was asked specifically to comment on those 3 players, and I can understand not being that decisive when talking about players you were asked to talk about I can understand why the former post is wishy-washy. It's just the next post that's so strange to me - I can't understand how he gets from point a) to point b). But yes, he seems very incoherent this game. And in the past, he's usually much more upfront about things (even if lurky) | ||
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Where'd you both run off to? | ||
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On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote: No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough. What posts in particular seem "innocent?" Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=27#522 | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 07:20 Tutankoopa wrote: To clarify, I get the feeling that's he's doing this on his own and is therefore town. It's not the best explanation, but I'm not sure how else to express the "innocent" read. Yeah I'm not sure what you mean by this. Scum can definetely "play on their own" and don't necessarily take orders from their scum-buddies. Does that mean you feel he's not playing with extra information? Is there anything specific you can point to? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote: Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions. Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads. | ||
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On August 30 2013 07:32 sciberbia wrote: You're correct that the town thought-process is hard to see there. But it's also hard for me to believe that he read sn0's filter, gave a null read, then five hours later read the same exact filter, forgot he had given a null read, and then gave a town read. Well at this point, it's much easier for me to accept the scum-explanation than the town-explanation. That being said, Syl's responses will be much more informative to all of this than any discussion we could have about it amongst ourselves. | ||
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xD I have scum-reads on both Syl and Hopeless at this point. The problem is that they're not talking enough >> | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:25 yamato77 wrote: If I'm wrong, why are your early posts so trash? Isn't this the 3rd game in a row where you think my early game posts are bad (and scummy) because I tend to force things early on? I make bad cases early on all the time. In fact almost every single one of my town games recently starts with a terribly bad D1 case that draws some flak on me. In a somewhat twisted way, I kind of enjoy the flak though, because it gets me thinking and involved in the game. | ||
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Hapahauli
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That's basically half the reason you're suspicious of me no? You know I've played a ton of games with marv. While I can articulate my methods of reading him in one way or another, the bottom-line is that a majority of me reading marv is completely on gut. There are just certain posts by him that I get strong town/scum vibes from, mostly because we have such a history together. In this game, there's just something about the way he's responding to the pressure here that makes me feel he's town. So back to the "holier than thou" thing with scum-marv, he tends to put himself above all the arguments, and either use it as an OMGUS or completely dismiss them at hand. In this game, he's getting emotionally caught up in them, which I consider a town-tell. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:33 yamato77 wrote: idk man, this was something special The question is, do I feel like you've improved since the post on deebs? idk, will reread. Your targets of hopeless/syl aren't real encouraging at first look, though, because they are easy to fake-case as either alignment So what's "special" about this one? Compare it to... say... Catch 22. Or that the 2nd Hydra Mini with the Duke Nukem stuffs. Anyway regarding Hopeless/Syl, I'm not going to go after more "original" targets if I don't find them scummy. Regardless if you think they're easy to "fake", I'd like to believe I've shown interest in questioning them so far and will continue to do so until I confirm/overturn my reads on them. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:39 yamato77 wrote: 1) I quote how Hapa has TOLD ME (therefor giving me the knowledge he has) about your meta. 2) I quote Hapa's read 3) I show obvious examples of the very scum attitude-read he posted 4) therefor, Hapa isn't actually considering your real alignment I think you're mistaking my not being able to articulate my methodology of reading Marv as well with me not caring about his alignment. That being said, read this and tell me what you think: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=30#589 | ||
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My approach to marv in all games is generally not to take a serious look at the guy on Day 1. He's not a guy that you're going to catch as mafia (or a guy that I would risk lynching) on Day 1. Generally if I get a town-feel from him, I'll accept it and move on to other targets. If something really striking happens, Day 2 and beyond are the days where I consider him. That has been consistent throughout all the games I've ever played with him. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:44 yamato77 wrote: Is he really, though? It seems like he wants to use these back-and-forth exchanges more as an avenue to shit on my play and my reads than to actually get anything useful out of it. If I am right about him, there is plenty of motivation for scum-Marv to want to discredit me when town-Marv is usually more cooperative even when I am tunneling him, in the recent past. Why the change this game in his response, and his overall attitude as compared to his recent play? TBH, this sounds like Persona 2 all over again. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:46 yamato77 wrote: Well, this has gone nowhere fast You should generally expect some level of hostility when your 3 main suspicions are the 3 potential town-leaders other than yourself. But we can't get anywhere if you don't reply to my defenses. Forget about marv for a second - let's get our conversation over and done with and then we can move into other things. | ||
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What parts of my explanations are inadequate? | ||
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You need to catch up on this game, because we're still talking about things that happened almost 20 pages ago. | ||
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Can you post the thoughts you had on Hopeless? It looks like he kinda vanished on us, so it'll give us something to discuss in civility in the meantime. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:59 marvellosity wrote: fuck it, until you can explain to me why you're lying to make me look bad, ##vote: yamato NO. STAHP. NO. | ||
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On August 30 2013 08:59 yamato77 wrote: You mean I really haven't called you scum since then? idk, seems off. I used to do it every game Marv is cooperative as town getting tunneled? wat | ||
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Stop tunneling and work together. | ||
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On August 30 2013 09:07 yamato77 wrote: okay you guys are town I'll fuck off and you can solve the game for me. deal? If I get shot tonight, this town goes to hell unless you put some effort into this. | ||
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On August 30 2013 09:09 yamato77 wrote: if you get shot, I will play you're better at reading these unreadables than me I'll read syl/hopeless and post thoughts just for fun, but honestly who the fuck knows with those 2 Hopeless and Syl are plenty readable. Sure there might not be a load of content now, but there will be. In the mean time, we may as well analyze what we have, and I think there are valid points against both. Also, can you give me more complete thoughts on Scib? You seem to be hinting suspicion at him in your giant readzzzz post, but I really can't tell how strong you're leaning one way or the other. | ||
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Sylencia: I've played with him in 2-3 of his town-games, and they're for the most-part the same. He's not too active, but he's often very direct and articulate with his thoughts and suspicions. Now I haven't played in one of his scum-games, nor has he played one since his 3rd newbie game, so the scum-meta comparison isn't there (or if it is, it isn't reliable). However, this sudden deviation in his play, from articulate and direct to "omagod what is he thinking in his filter" makes me think he's scum having a hard time contributing as opposed to a lost townie. Hopeless1der: The one thing that puts me off from outright wanting to vote/lynch him is his early level of aggression so far. It's uncharacteristic of anything I've seen from him as town or scum. Regardless, his push on TK seems really forced, and he seems to show no interest in following through with questions on TK's allignment. | ||
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On August 30 2013 07:50 Tutankoopa wrote: Have I not said I think it's pretty scummy? If not then... yeah. He's my top suspect but that's qualified by my "investigation" on him not quite being over yet. The only times I've gotten any town vibes from Hopeless were a few bits from his latest posts. If not for those I'd probably be voting for him right now. Antyhing more specific about these "vibes"? @ Debears On August 30 2013 07:54 debears wrote: You do raise what seem like valid points on Hopeless. I'm sticking with Syl since I've actually read his stuff. The one thing about Onegu is that he makes that summary post for his first post, which is fine. Yet, he doesn't hit the main events. It seems to me like he was nitpicking stuff he could just easily chime in about without further exploring. On the other side, his location makes it hard to communicate. And apparently he does this most games. -.- I would think one of Onegu/Syl is scum. Can you read Hopeless filter and get back to me on that? | ||
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##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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On August 30 2013 09:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can someone explain to me why Tutankhamon is town? All i have heard is that he asked me 3 questions and then unvoted me and that makes him seem like a bright guy. I do not see anything in his filter that is even close to scumhunting. I don't see anything in his filter that is even close to giving out a decent scumread. I don't actually see anything in his filter that is giving out decent ANY read. It's kinda hard for me to take a serious look at the guy given how Hopeless has been pushing him. I'd definitely like to see more content from him, but I haven't seen anything in his filter that would justify a scum-read on him objectively. | ||
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On August 30 2013 09:47 sciberbia wrote: lol so I was feeling all good about myself that you liked my post but then I thought what if hapa is scum and just asked me to write about hopeless so he had an excuse to get the wagon rolling. Surely you wouldn't be that devious, right? Surely... You give my scum-game a lot of credit that it doesn't deserve =P @ Syl On August 30 2013 12:20 Sylencia wrote: As big as our spiders and snakes are, Australians do have to sleep too Not really, I was more swayed by further reasoning after reading filters and putting some more serious thought into it. I explained it before, and I'll explain it again: - Scrib asks for opinions on his initial reads - I haven't looked into sn0 that hard, so I take a quick look at his filter. Doesn't look too bad. Say that, move on. Later on, we've got the part where I'm reading other filters. Hopeless mentions sn0 was saying stuff to prove he was "actively reading". He never said sn0 was scum, but I go and check sn0's filter again and actually properly analysing it gave me the feeling of "Hey guys, I've read everything in the past 5 hours, but I've got nothing to say except I'm happy with my vote on scrib. JK, unvote." Pretty sure I've explained this already. Okay that's reasonable. @Hapa Would you actually prefer it if I played to my meta rather than trying to be more active? There's something called trying to improve, my day 1s are still horrible than ever but I've actually tried to do something useful for us this game and it's not allowed for meta reasons Updated reads incoming in like 5-6 hours when I get back because catching up took my entire lunch break If you're being truthful about trying to improve, that's a great thing and I encourage you to do that. That being said, while you are a bit more active than I've previously seen you play, you also aren't very clear about your analysis and reads this game. For example, in the "contradiction" discussed above, you posted two things that seem disparate/nonsensical together because there was a giant, unexplained (at the time) gap in your thought process and approach to scum-hunting. Anyway, I really shouldn't lecture - I'm more interested in what reads you come up with. | ||
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On August 30 2013 12:56 debears wrote: @Hapa Based on your posts, I got these reads from you yam - town marv -town scribs - town raynp - town onegu - slight town? me - null? tutan - ? syl - ? hopeless- scum that right? Correct except for the following: Onegu - closer to null. Gut town read, but that really doesn't mean much. Debears - slight town Tutan - slight town Syl - Null So uhhh... yeah... too many slight town reads. But I'm not too fearful of that at this stage, since I generally filter the weaker town-reads out over time. | ||
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I don't know whether that's because of sleep schedules or something more malicious. That being said, I'd expect to have a clearer picture of his allignment after his posting tonight. | ||
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On August 30 2013 14:35 Tutankoopa wrote: Hapa is there anything you want to talk about? I'll be on until meds wear out. I really want to see a more complete picture of your reads. Rayn does have a point when he says your body of analysis is lacking so far. | ||
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What do you make of the interaction between myself/marv/yamato a couple of pages before? | ||
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On August 30 2013 15:08 sciberbia wrote: @hapa Can you explain how the events of a couple of pages ago made you think that yamato is town? Like I see how his egotism and brashness are townie traits, but I don't feel extremely comfortable about everyone giving a steadfast townread to a guy that didn't do anything for 24 hours, then made two imo questionable scum reads, and then in the matter of an hour was talked out of those scum reads and into town reads by the subjects of his reads themselves, for no particularly great reason that I can discern from his filter. So all in all I don't see anything in his filter that makes me think he is town except his odd egotism and brashness, which I am not totally convinced he could not imitate as scum. How confident are you he wouldn't pull a stunt like that as scum? It seems you/marv have a ton of prior experience with yamato which I do not share. To be clear I'm leaning town on yamato myself but I'd just like to feel better about this read if possible and see where hapa is coming from on this one. Nothing else really to talk about at the moment. I think the most compelling justification is to compare his game here to his TWO recent scum-games in Game of Thrones and Sicilian Mafia. Those two games are downright calm and passive compared to his recent outburst here. As scum, he has an incredibly hard time contributing. While he can be antagonizing and provocative at times, he often has next to no scum-hunting contributions and doesn't pick fights with town-leaders (or fights he knows he can't win). In this game, he's done quite the exact opposite so far. Is it possible he's improved and faked this outburst? I think it's possible, but not very likely. And if I'm wrong, his scum mentality will manifest itself pretty clearly in the next few days. If he's not useful to town by the end of D2, dispatch of him. Though given his recent behavior, his outburst is characteristic of some of his other town-games. Him tunneling me as town in this exact manner is also almost identical to our 3 last town-games together >> | ||
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On August 31 2013 00:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hapahauli please get in here as soon as possible! I need to talk to you about something! Back, awake, and catching up. Whats up? | ||
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On August 30 2013 23:34 debears wrote: @Hapa Can you remind me after lynch of something I need to talk to you about? A certain person is doing something off of his normal town game (at least I think he is). I don't think I would be able to get him lynched at this point. You don't need my approval to say something. Say it. | ||
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Lynching replacements isn't good the day they get replaced. We shouldn't be lynching Alakaslam today unless he does something very egregiously scummy. For people voting FT... that's even worse. A coin-flip lynch is going to lead to zero discussion and waste the entirety of Day 1. Let's find another candidate. Day 1's are made or broken in the last few hours anyway, so let's see who steps up and hunts some scum. | ||
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On August 31 2013 03:24 debears wrote: Hmmm something I just thought of. Why would hopeless as town target only TK for setup speculation? Why not also scribs who did similar twice? Kinda odd to pick out only one blemished apple in a bunch when there is a second There's very little point in questioning someone who's not going to be here. At this point, I'm waiting for Alakaslam to give his thoughts on who should be lynched. | ||
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Before your long 24-hour-ish absence in the thread, you were suspicious of a list of people, including TK, marv, and others. Now all of a sudden when you get back to the thread... On August 30 2013 22:14 Oatsmaster wrote: IM BACK GUYS. im seriously really busy like I said pregame. Hopeless looks like scum and rayn looks like he cant let go of a bad point. ##unvote ##vote: Hopeless Would you lynch debears? I really didnt like his case on Scib. ... you sheep all possible thread sentiment. Not only have you neatly fallen onto the Hopeless bandwagon, but you all of a sudden find TK town. Furthermore, I have no idea why you'd be exploring the idea of lynching debears if you were as convinced as you are about thinking Hopeless is scum. | ||
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With what's in his filter, he is quite literally a coin-flip lynch. | ||
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On August 31 2013 03:38 Onegu wrote: It shouldnt matter he is a replacement, sorry you replaced someone who is scummy tough luck. And why does a FT lynch waste the day? It gets rid of someone who has a good chance at being scum, and its not like everything was wasted the discusion that was made today is still valid. I hate to bring up meta-gaming reasons, but usually when someone replaces in a "hopeless" situation (pun intended) such as this, they're usually demoralized town. And how is there a good chance that FT is scum? All we know is that he's afk and is going to get modkilled/replaced. | ||
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On August 31 2013 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look at my last post about Tutankhamon, compare that with what marv did after. What can you see? I think Tutandude is totally scum. I am bad at explaining but that's fucking damning. marv soft-defending him from start of the game is weird. He always fucks off when i post something good about my scumread on tut. Also i do not think hopeless/alkaslam is mafia. The wagon is fishy. Lynch tutandude. I don't like it man. I don't think your case is damning, nor do I think TK should be lynched today. It seems like you're nitpicking his filter and blowing things completely out of proportion. You seem dissatisfied by all his responses because of your confirmation-bias towards him, as well as his displayed frustration in dealing with your tunnel the entirety of D1. | ||
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If you're all around, talk to me about Oats. What vibes are you getting from him this game? | ||
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On August 31 2013 03:58 sciberbia wrote: ... Sylencia Sylencia would be a meh lynch. I wouldn't feel great about it but he's definitely on the scummy side of null for me. The most interesting thing I noticed while perusing his filter is that he chose to give an analysis on TK as well as give some thoughts on debears and FirmTofu, dropped his vote on Onegu and went to bed, without ever giving a read or any of his own thoughts on the hopeless wagon, which up until recently looked very strong. If i was going to lynch him for one reason, it would probably be that. ... Ummm... that doesn't sound "meh" to me. Completely avoiding commenting on the main wagon to go and fuck-off on a lynch-bait player with little chance of getting lynched is absurdly scummy. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:04 Oatsmaster wrote: I was thinking that debears was scum because I really didnt like his case on Scib but its ok now, he has allayed my suspicions. The rest of the stuff, there were like 15 or so posts. changed my mind man. I have not seen any fucking reasoning at all why im scum. Hapa are you scum? Read. Reply. On August 31 2013 03:33 Hapahauli wrote: @ Oats Before your long 24-hour-ish absence in the thread, you were suspicious of a list of people, including TK, marv, and others. Now all of a sudden when you get back to the thread... ... you sheep all possible thread sentiment. Not only have you neatly fallen onto the Hopeless bandwagon, but you all of a sudden find TK town. Furthermore, I have no idea why you'd be exploring the idea of lynching debears if you were as convinced as you are about thinking Hopeless is scum. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay. Fuck you Hapa and marv if you are town this game. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Sylencia Since apparently noone wants to lynch a guy who is most likely to be scum, i go to my secondary target. Rayn... how often have your Day 1 tunnels been correct in the past? | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh actually in past 3 games 2/3 and WoS Oh hm ok that's not what I thought it would be. Regardless, I don't think your case on TK is very strong. His last quote in your last case on him (the one about him trying to "trap" you or something) is kinda wonky, but nothing 100% damning. I'm interested to see how he continues playing in the coming days, but in the mean-time, he's reasonably active, and while there are some inconsistencies in his filter, they aren't outside the norm for a townie. Not a good lynch for today me thinks | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:18 Oatsmaster wrote: changing my mind is a scumtell since when Hapa? It's a mix of two things. The first is that you changed your mind to exactly sheep thread sentiment... which is... odd for you. Having seen you fight against thread sentiment to push your own ideas tooth and nail in my previous town games with you, this version of Oats looks downright passive. Furthermore, I can usually get that paranoid townie feeling from you very early on. You're generally much more all-over-the-place than this. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: No hapa, please do not be try to "safe lynch" like you are now. There's nothing "safe lynch" about it. I'm not lynching a null-read over a scum-read. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:26 FirmTofu wrote: ##vote:Tutankoopa ... | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:27 FirmTofu wrote: hold yo horsis, hapa. I will explain. I'm still catchin up. What the jack have you been doing all game? | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Otas is town. He does not attack you if he was scum. He can't because you murder him. FFS. marv totally misrepresents Oats' meta. Oats, can you clarify this? Take a look what me and marv talked about you. Comment on it please. Marv is absolutely terrible at reading Oats fwiw. I'd expect him not to have a good grasp of Oats' meta. As far as Oats attacking me... where has he attacked me? I've seen him rage-tunnel me for days when I was a clear town-leader. The stuff he's done this game is a joke in comparison. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:30 FirmTofu wrote: Quick question for those who have played with Sciberbia. Does he always play very deliberate and calculated even when he is town? I am unfamiliar with his meta. Pretty normal for scum and town Sciberia. | ||
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Yes it is an inconsistency. Yes his reply is a bit wonky. But is it completely out of the realm for a townie to do? What is "scum TK" trying to acccomplish here? | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: The thing is he is not making any sense. His thought process does not exist because it's a lie. Scum get away with this bullshit because town does not reread. It.. does.. not.. make... sense1!!!! How sure are you that it's a lie as opposed to a mistake? | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:57 FirmTofu wrote: I can't believe it... Is Yamato seriously scum again? Please attempt to justify your reads at some point today. Thanks. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:58 FirmTofu wrote: He's voting all the easy inactives like he did in Persona and is posting one-liners with no substance. This is hilarious. What do you make of the shitfest between myself, marv, and Yamato starting roughly at page 29? | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Man, i am not stupid. read the case and pages 8-10 of the game, and think about what Tutankoopa says and how does he act. Ask yourself; Does what he says to me make sense compared to how he acts? Townies do not forget their intentions behind actions, mafia does (or does not have them). Think about it. That bolded statement is simply not true. Townies are human - they forget all the time. Especially when put under pressure, it can be hard for people to find the motivation or the presence of mind to keep a story 100% straight. Every time I read that exchange you harp on about in your case, that's what I think. TK just seems annoyed at dealing with you as opposed to him making some calculated lie. Maybe TK is scum, but what you have isn't a strong case, and isn't really a case at all. | ||
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You guys around? Where'd you all run off to? | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: what Hapa, what is the exchabnge you are talking about? The TK/Hopeless exchange in your last case. | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Well as far as I'm concerned all of a sudden we have too many reasonable lynches lol (aka our votes are spread already :/). Syl/FT/Alakaslam are all people I'd lynch plus we have a fair portion tunnelled on koopa. Since not having my vote on anybody makes it a bit harder for consolidation, I'm going to ##Vote: Alakaslam however I'm currently quite willing to be convinced on any of those 3. We don't need to consolidate yet. I suspect we'll have a solid bloc of voters come deadline. Although Alakaslam peacing out and not doing anything right now is bothersome. | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:32 marvellosity wrote: Just to emphasise, I'm curious why Hapa wants to give alakaslam a pass given his posting since he got in the game; I don't find this suspicious from hapa, just the wrong attitude. On August 31 2013 03:40 Hapahauli wrote: I hate to bring up meta-gaming reasons, but usually when someone replaces in a "hopeless" situation (pun intended) such as this, they're usually demoralized town. ... | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:34 marvellosity wrote: that's not even meta-gaming. do you have anything to support that hunch other than gut? Given 75% of replacements will be town anyway? Would a host even let a townie replace out for being 'demoralised'? I don't think so, do you? I'm not saying those are the reasons that Hopeless gave. I'm more suggesting that a scum would be more likely to stick it out (regardless of what RL things are happening), where as a town would be more demoralized and such suspicion would be the tipping point for a replacement. At this point, I'm more waiting on what slam has to say. | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:36 marvellosity wrote: Like, actually look at his POSTING, hapa, not some terrible reason about hosts letting a demoralised townie replace out which never actually happens. Idunno. I just tend to give replacements a lot of leeway to prove themselves. | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:40 marvellosity wrote: But you're suggesting that Hopeless lied to get a replacement then? Because no host lets someone replace out because they're demoralised. Come on Hapa. Fair point. I'm just over-thinking this I guess. Regardless, I'm waiting for Slam to finish catching up. | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:55 marvellosity wrote: As in, his strong desire to lynch him, having previously agreed with his lynch target of Tuten. Oats changing his mind is a plausible story. More the problem I have is how absurdly convenient all his reads are, and how little conviction he's had this game. Oats has been chillingly passive this game. | ||
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Where in the shitbags are you? | ||
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On August 31 2013 05:59 Oatsmaster wrote: I play better and Im scum Sad fact man. I just didnt have the time to TUNNEL this game. Will you have time in the next few days? | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I mean, like appearing to sheep town sentiment isnt exactly what only scum do, its TOWN sentiment for a reason. And nothing else is even close to being scummy that Hapa has explained. Why are you trying your best to lynch me cause I didnt tunnel someone Hapa???? ? Horrific reasons. Is hapa this bad? I gotta think about this man. I really just don't know what to make of this more inactive version of you. | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:01 marvellosity wrote: I dunno how much leeway to give Firm timingwise, his posts since he got back have been terribad. I'm approaching the point of policy lynching FT. | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:04 Oatsmaster wrote: uh read the posts? Do what you do normally? Forget meta? I DUNNO MAN. I guess I'm just annoyed that you're not an obvious spammy paranoid townie by this stage in the game =/ Probs not lynching you today regardless though. | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:16 sciberbia wrote: @hapa Why do you not want to lynch oats? He's my strongest scum read right now. Idunno man. I'm just confused right now. I think I'm going to step outside for a half-hour and reread this. | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:17 yamato77 wrote: Caught up. Totally fine with killing FT. Hapa, sheep me. Please give me more scum-reads than the practically non-posting lurker . | ||
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I think that's our vote for today. He is a bit more active than usual, however there are things about his game that don't line up. In addition to the FT thing that Onegu pointed out, there was him completely dodging commenting on the Hopeless case, putting his vote on Onegu (who has had virtually no chance of getting lynched), then peacing out. Syl's just playing a lot different than I've seen him do in his past town-games. He lacks the articulation and confidence that I've seen him display in recent memory. I'd say he's our best chance at scum today. | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:41 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, can you elaborate on this? Is what Syl did with Onegu really out of character? His lynch makes me squirmy right now. I would say him not commenting on Hopeless (when Hopeless was clearly the main focus of the thread) to be completely out of character. Usually Syl does a better job of keeping up with the thread, even though he doesn't always end up on the main wagon. Who is your alternative to Syl though? | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:44 Sn0_Man wrote: Both alakaslam and FT are mega-sheeping rayn and peaceing. I prefer their lynches to syl for that reason atm. +1 to marv's "squirm". ##Unvote Bleh changed my mind. I agree with this sentiment a lot. I re-read through Syl's filter just now, and I'm not feeling super happy about it. It reads relatively normal (even if Syl seems kinda... sad about everything). | ||
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On August 31 2013 06:57 Sn0_Man wrote: In hindsight maybe blue discussion is a mistake but at least I'd like to hear rayn's "scumteam" now since he is so certain of everythign. I don't think we need to give Rayn more of a platform at this stage. Let him rant during the night cycle, but we only have 1 hour to come up with something right now. | ||
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You probably are. Makes very little sense for you to not shoot TK ya know. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:08 Tutankoopa wrote: Has Oats explained his 180 yet? Is that the main point of contention regarding him? Yeah, Oats basically said he "changed his mind" during his absence. It's still remarkably convenient of a 180 though. | ||
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Rayn, why do you object so strenuously to a Slam/Oats lynch? | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hapa, i strongly think they are both town. I have given my reasons for both of the reads. Is it just because of the TK thing? Because that's not very convincing. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: No. I have been yelling it all day long (both of the reads). Why are you not reading the thread? It's hard for me to read your posts in general. | ||
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30 minutes. | ||
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He responds to whenever he's poked, but where is he right now? I don't remember the last time I could remotely accuse Oats of blending in as town. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: oats is fucking town and you do not fucking kill him!!! Why? Fucking type it man. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: YOU ARE NOT KiLLING OTAS BECAUSE HE IS TOWN! Period. Is this a mason claim? Give me rationale. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:37 Tutankoopa wrote: it's pre flip but I was unnerved by his recent town read on hopeless You know that he's the guy who started the case on Hopeless... right? | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: THERE IS A FUCKING PORTION IN MY FILTER OF WHY OATS IS TOWN! Votefor USELSEESSSSSSSKOOOOOPPAAAA!! And Rayn, I'm not digging through 10 pages of spam in yoru filter to extract what may or may not be sane rationale for your Oats town read. If you think he's town, type your rationale here for everyone to see. | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:39 Tutankoopa wrote: and I think oats is town. so what I see is scib comes in with a calm and collected town read on a guy who everyone wants to kill, and proposes lynching oats which probably wasn't/isn't going to happen. Oats is one vote away from happening. Doesn't make very much sense from a scum-strategy. Build a wagon to lynch someone, then be the first to lead people off it? Plus, Scib has been extraordinarily helpful all day. | ||
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All I remember is you saying something about how Oats attacking me was a town-trait. Which is absolutely retarded, because he's tried to lynch me as scum before. And he hasn't attacked me at all this game. | ||
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Lurker lynch ahoy. ##Vote FirmTofu | ||
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On August 31 2013 07:49 debears wrote: If it's a fake and they are mafia, gg. Shit will get figured out real quick No, I mean Rayn has a penchant for various fake-claims. | ||
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I need to take a break from this. BB later tonight. | ||
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On September 01 2013 06:45 marvellosity wrote: that's some epic timing hapa. We must be in a QT together and shit. Are you worried his me/you thing was just a stunt? Well a useless Yamato is a scum-yamato. The stunt is a bit beyond what I'd expect from scum-yamato, but the main point remains. | ||
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On September 01 2013 06:53 marvellosity wrote: ... Anyways, i can't really disagree about how useful he's been, but do you really think he'd have gone balls out at BOTH of us like that? Maybe? I mean Yamato is fully capable of being useful as town, and if he's not next cycle, he should probably die. | ||
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On September 01 2013 06:54 debears wrote: btw what does PoE mean? Process of elimination | ||
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I'd like your comments on the Day 1 vote. Your vote (or rather Hopeless's vote) was on TK. Why did you never attempt to change it? You were posting a lot near the end of the deadline, but I really didn't sense any effort on your part to consolidate. | ||
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On September 01 2013 07:17 debears wrote: Hey Hapa I remember you making an extensive meta post on marv back in a game I can't remember the name of. I believe it would greatly help me out cuz I think you addressed the point I'm trying to get to. It was a game where drazak was medic, you had a veteran claim when marv tried to counter you. I obsed but I really cant remember Yeah that's GSL III Mini Mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=37#724 It's an absurdly situational case though. | ||
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On September 01 2013 07:42 debears wrote: I'm not really into Marv for emotions. More for her passivity when it came to the day one lynch. I'll go into it more in a little bit. Some of your case does apply, and I will quote the pertinent sections in my typed up case. Taking sections of the case defeats the whole purpose of the case... that all those points I made were on full display in a single game. | ||
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I'm pretty convinced that Marv, Sciberbia, and Rayn are town. The people out of that group right now is where I'm having difficulty. I have a lot of slight town-reads and not many scum-reads. As for tomorrow, I think the best course of action is to look at the vote count and try to see who was really trying to consolidate and help town (wiht the last minute vote) and who was not. Sn0_Man (0) raynpelikoneet (0) tutankoopa (2) Sciberbia (0) marvellosity (0) debears (0) Sylencia (0) yamato (0) Alakaslam (2) FirmTofu (8) Onegu (1) Sylencia Oatsmaster (0) I'd expect 1-2 scum to be off of the FT wagon. Sylencia is definetely a candidate to be scrutinized tomorrow, since he basically dropped a vote on Onegu with him having virtually no chance of getting lynched. Sylencia's play has been really strange this game. He's posting more, but is not nearly as productive as I've seen him in past games, and also has this really... "sad" air about him. Lots of frowny faces in his filter for some odd reason. He's someone I'm leaning scum on right now. I mentioned Yamato77 already. He's useful as town, and hasn't been at all useful this game. Unless he shapes up in a big way tomorrow, I wouldn't hate to dispatch of him. Alakaslam is someone who had his vote in the wrong place, but there are just these comments/lines in his filter towards the end of the day that sound remarkably genuine. Having coached several newbie games with him, I don't think he's difficult to read, and has a hard time staying genuine when he's scum. My gut-feel for this guy is town, but he definetely should be pressured to contribute. TK definetely deserves another look. He really wasn't moving his vote around much today, and I think we've given him far too much town-credit for his quick change-of-mind on Rayn early on Day 1. | ||
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On September 01 2013 08:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: i mean, WHY THE fuck would i be lying? Well this would be the 3rd blue role you'd claim, no? | ||
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On September 01 2013 08:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: i am a vet. debears claim is shit. he is scum. i was hit. I'm not following the logic here. Debears claimed roleblock and you claim veteran. OK. So... 1) You've claimed mason and vigi already. How can I trust your claim? 2) What does yoru claim have anything to do with debears being roleblocked? | ||
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I guess I need to look into Rayn's filter one more time tonight, but I'm inclined to believe that they're both town and that there's an SK afoot. Hell I really don't even know if Rayn's claim is truthful or not =/ | ||
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@ Rayn and Debears - out of curiosity, are there any conditions on your powers as related to the water level? There's something in the OP that talks about some powers being linked to that. | ||
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On September 01 2013 08:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: fu hapa, iam vet. You're the vet mason vigi apparently. And this is the problem with all these fake-claims Rayn. The boy who cries wolf can't be trusted. | ||
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On September 01 2013 09:00 sciberbia wrote: shit sorry debears just did 3rd party speculation. I take it back. I dunno I'm with hapa I think they are most likely both town. Not sure whether rayn is lying again or not to try to make a "big play" or something For as tough of a time I'm giving Ryan about the claim, it's probably legit (if Rayn is town). He hasn't been suspicious of debears at all this game, and all his other claims were levied around trying to manipulate the game around his individual reads. I do need to entertain the possibility of scum-Rayn tonight. And even though scum-Rayn can be somewhat spazztic, I don't know if he could fake these levels. Also, any town-vigi should claim. If not, we either have a mafia vigi or an SK on our hands. And if there's an SK, we can confirm it tomorrow night (if two people die) and thereby corroborate both of these claims. | ||
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Even if I'm somehow wrong about one person in this group of active players, I'd much rather be focusing on the 7 who are doing nothing and are more likely to be mafia. | ||
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On September 01 2013 10:04 sciberbia wrote: @hapa yea I agree. I just kinda want to ignore this debears/rayn drama for now as they both seem rather townie to me based on their filters and with time this night-action stuff may resolve itself. Anything in particular you want to discuss right now while the rest of the thread seems to be afk? Maybe come up with a list of questions for people to respond to when they wake up? Really any progress made today will be on the backs of players who aren't posting right now >> | ||
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TK, what are your thoughts on the claims by Debears and Rayn? As for Onegu, I really don't understand your case against him. Onegu apparently thought FT was scum, and his explanation about it (having played a ton of games with a visibly different town FT) makes sense. What precludes Onegu from finding multiple players suspicious and voting his top scumread (FT)? | ||
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On September 01 2013 11:31 debears wrote: Hapa,does raynp ever breadcrumb any of his true claims? I have no clue. I've only played in games where he was some anti-town faction. | ||
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Why are you leaning town on Sylencia? I haven't seen any justification from you in your filter at all. Putting him in the same category as sciberbia in that regard is really surprising. @ Scib Regarding Oats' defense, it actually strikes me as pretty townie. There was a good meta observation made by ObviousOne a while ago, to the effect of "If you can sense Oats' 'madness' in the thread, he's probably town." To this regard, him having this absurd non-sensical 180 is completely up his alley as town. Futhermore, his defense of just calling things bad and not really addressing cases towards him is also pretty normal. Even though he's less active than I'm used to seeing out of him, his defense (on meta) is townie. | ||
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On September 02 2013 05:59 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, we gotta stop meeting like this I think we need to see other people :3 | ||
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The only thing that keeps me on edge about him is his low activity and convenient choice of lynch targets. For example, he's mentioned multiple times suspicon on myself and scib, but has chosen to spend most of his time tunneling various lurkers (FT, Slam, etc). | ||
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We basically haven't heard from you three today. What do you make of the Rayn/Dibbers stuff? Who are your scum-reads? (As for TK who has his vote on Onegu, I'm more looking for other reads). | ||
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On September 02 2013 09:10 Tutankoopa wrote: Before I try to figure this out, can anyone explain why all the role speculation makes any sense? All the "evidence" I see is debears claiming a roleblock and rayn claiming he was shot. How does that lead to some setup with multiple vets or whatever people are talking about? And why are we giving any weight to rayn's claim? Well it would be a different situation if both players weren't absurdly townie on behavior already. As far as the speculation goes, claiming to get shot as veteran is a really difficult claim to pull off as scum. Both debears and rayn's behavior around their claims seem legitimate and what I'd expect from both if they were telling the truth. Hapa I plan on being in the thread for a long time starting later this evening. I'd rather talk then in live conversation. Did you really not understand my onegu case? I read your questions last night but I didn't know how to respond because I didn't know what to make of your post. I'm also curious as to why you are reading me incorrectly. Awesome. I should be around for the next few hours. In regards to your case - your case basically states that Onegu was vocal about suspicion of a scum-read (Hopeless) then switched off in favor of someone who was being "useless" (FirmTofu). The thing is, Onegu rationalized that switch on his belief that FT was scum, and has stated to the effect several times. What precludes the explanation that Onegu simply voted the strongest of his scum-reads at the time? | ||
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On September 02 2013 09:48 yamato77 wrote: Hapa, do you have anything to say about my post besides to question my weak town read of Syl? This goes for anyone, btw. Not really? There's very little in there that hasn't already been said to some capacity. Except for your stuff on me, which you don't even give a read with =/ | ||
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On September 02 2013 10:04 yamato77 wrote: I really haven't played town in a while, and certainly not with this group of players who I mostly find difficult to read. Generally, it's easy enough for me to get some townreads and go from there, but I have too many question marks and not enough time to really pin them all down. The thing is, this "uncertain" mentality of yours isn't really reflected by your latest "reads" post. You seem to have a pretty organized idea of who is suspicious and who is town. | ||
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@hapa Who would you rather lynch between Oats and yamato? I think they're both scum. If had to choose between the two, probably yamato, since useless = scum for him as a meta-point. However I'm not entirely convinced about either, and I'd probably lean towards lynching Slam at this point. We had a good case on hopeless, and his successor has literally done nothing up until this point. | ||
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On September 02 2013 12:44 Tutankoopa wrote: He said he thought I'm town because he thought he knew who I am. Do you think this is a justification that scum would make up? It suggests that he was trying to figure out my alignment. I believe he was talking to marv. A weak/mysterious town-read isn't really a tell one way or the other. | ||
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On September 02 2013 12:48 Onegu wrote: Hey I habe been thinking about the rayn and debears thing, and its possible one of then IS the SK. SK normally have one shot immune or green to checks and I have seen them have both also. Somfor example scum shoots SK debears who is immune and SK debears shoots Vet rayn. Doesnt this make a bit moe sense then 2 town vets? And since no one has claimed vig yet its more likely a SK or Maf vig. We should know tonight though. I suppose that's possible, however I wouldn't risk lynching into either today. I'm more interested in hearing your scum-reads Onegu. We've heard so little from you this game. | ||
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On September 02 2013 13:48 Tutankoopa wrote: Hapa are you in the thread? Lets figure each other out and get this over with. I'm doing some work so I'll be in and out. Though you're not someone I'm looking to lynch as of now. | ||
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I'll get to Yamato's case in a second I guess. I'm a bit frustrated there are votes on me at this stage of the game, but I sympathise with some of the points. | ||
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The first point is pants-on-head, but the second is worth talking about. Firstly, I haven't at all avoided confrontation with Yamato. Hell Yamato thought I was town on Day 1 because of a huge extended argument he had with myself and marv. Hell I thought I was basically done with yamato's case at that stage in the game. If that's avoiding confrontation, I really don't know what to say on the subject. It is true that we haven't interacted much today, but that's because we've barely been in the thread at the same time. Every time Yamato and I are in the thread, I'm questioning him to some capacity, which often is soon ended by him going to bed =/ | ||
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On September 03 2013 05:16 sciberbia wrote: Well seeing as you called him town for doing it on D1 I don't see why as scum he'd stop #WIFOM What did you think of this post? Doesn't seem very genuine to me. Who folds their cards as scum? I don't see why he suddenly decided you weren't scum anymore. To be fair, my scum-game is terrible and I probably would have either stopped arguing with the guy if I was. | ||
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On August 31 2013 04:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Show me evidence FT isnt a coinflip/lurker lynch rayn. On August 31 2013 06:04 Oatsmaster wrote: ft is good lynch ##unvote ##vote FT Hopeless/alak tmr I guess. Rayn im not killing TK unless redcheck and I need to think REALLY hard for that one. These posts were made two hours apart. And we weren't at the part of the game where everyone was like "fuck it, lets lurker lynch". In fact Sn0 had just voted Slam, so the wagon had some level of traction. | ||
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On September 03 2013 05:39 sciberbia wrote: @hapa Since Oats isn't here I'll just tell you what he will say See this post 6 minutes later Hm yeah FT did have that burst of posting between that time. I'm still at such a loss on what to do with Oats. Just can't tell if his inactivity is due to business or scuminess. | ||
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As far as Yamato goes, yeah that's extremely troubling. You might have convinced me on him. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:01 Tutankoopa wrote: ##unvote ?? | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:09 Tutankoopa wrote: Hi Hapa. I noticed that you haven't gone "Waaaaaait just a minute" and then proceed to interrogate someone until you decide they're town? That's your #1 towntell, your tendency to grill a scumread until you reach a conclusion that you're comfortable with. HELP ME HAPA It's near impossible for me to grill someone because the people I'm suspicious of (like 5 people) are barely active. Combined with me starting school last week and having to do work, I get like 2-3 post exchanges with someone, and then one of us fucks off. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why can't you guys just sheep yamato? You can talk to me if you're suspicious of me you know. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i have. You didn't say anything. You have? Must have missed it. Well let's talk - what do you want me ot respond to? | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: This: I have never seen town!Hapahauli not reading the thread properly. Dude I'm known for derping reading the thread as town 100x a game. It's often because I just skim-read too quickly and jump to gut conclusions about things. Well anyway, it's not like I don't "understand" what TK is getting at. It's more that I can identify and trace a town-mentality behind Onegu's posts that TK ignores. For example, Onegu never playing in a game iwth FT mafia and basing a read off of the 4 (?) games he's played with town FT is a perfectly normal mistake for a newbie to make. It's something that virtually every newbie does at some point or another. I'm also not really pursuing this all that much because I think TK is town. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:42 Tutankoopa wrote: Anyone have a convincing argument for alak being town? Not really, beyond I get a sense of "genuinity" behind some of his posts. That might not be robust enough for me not to vote him at this point though. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your explanation is way different than it was before. Why? Why did you not shut down a bad case before? When I question people, I'll frame things in different (often stronger) ways to ellicit responses. As for why I didn't "shut it down", well it's because I'm null on Onegu. I want the guy to post and respond to things. I'm also not all that fearful of TK's motives, so I wasn't inclined to follow through with my pressure for that reason either. | ||
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Idunno man. I'm completely lost on this. I have reasons to believe that all three are both scum and town. Objectively I think Alakasam's play has been the worst so far. However lynching solely on objectively bad play ended up in a mislynch yesterday. Of the three, I think Oats has the least chance of being scum. I really did like your post on Yamato before, so I'm more deciding between Alakasam/Yamato at this point. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have never been in a game where you have been scum so i can't tell. You do not seem like your town!self though. Maybe i figure it next time you roll scum so i can explain it to people. You are off somehow, and i can't tell how. :/ Well I am certainly less hyperactive than in my past town-games. I took a fairly long break from mafia before this game (I did play a short stint in Sicilian, but replaced out due to travel plans after Day 1), mostly because I've been finding myself getting burned out of playing. And especially with the recent voice mafia stuff, it feels like I can get the same gratification playing a mafia game for a couple of hours on the weekend as opposed to grinding out a forum mafia game for a week. Between that burnout feel and school starting, I really haven't hard the time nor the mental presence to do what I normally do in a game. So yeah I'm definitely "off" in a sense. However do understand that me being "off" in the early game has been normal of late in my town-games. "Off" hapa isn't scum hapa. "Terrible posting that makes people want to throw up" hapa is scum hapa. | ||
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On September 03 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like: - I don't like the fact that Hapa did justify his town read on me with what he had said ~24h ago on D1 end. - I don't like his Oats pudh, it's bad. - I don't like questioning on TK. Somehow it does not make sense. - I don't like his yamato read. - I don't like some of his post because to me it looks like he is not giving a fuck. I don't like the fact that i can't make a case on him because i am unable to put all this together and tell how that all makes him scum... bleh.. Also kill TK. You don't like my play and disagree with me... well... cool. If that's the reason, then I'm at a loss for how I'm supposed to defend myself. And you're still suspicious of TK? >> | ||
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On September 03 2013 07:07 Tutankoopa wrote: I guess I'm fine with letting the alak lynch happen? *shrug* But I'm also starting to have a change of heart about Oats so idk It's annoying that virtaully all of these lynch candidates aren't present around the deadline. I guess I'll read through both filters again and see whats up. | ||
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Firstly in regards to the Slam lynch... everyone is suspicious of the guy, yet a good portion of us doubt his allignment, yet still want to vote him. That should set off some alarms right away about the direction this lynch is heading right now. And there are just these "townie-bombs" all over his filter that scream genuinity to me: On August 31 2013 13:14 Alakaslam wrote: BUT I'm vt. So if you don't want me to spam I can slow it down. Asking for reads though? Better be satisfied with "oats is town, Raynepelikoneet is town, ONEGU is town, I am town, and marv is null." Will have to do. I am too nervous to lead a mislynch, and I can't reason why anything is scummy. My WIFOM scale is as broad as the pacific, everything is WIFOM to me. On September 02 2013 17:28 Alakaslam wrote: Sighhhhh...... Oh alright. Yamato sees real things about me and makes sensible conclusions about me. He makes conclusions I pretty much agree with or argues with Marv and others about vet meta stuff that I usually ignore because I won't get it and I'm narcissistic in Mafia if not generally so. And Yamato doesn't look scummy to my gut, the biggest voice in my mafia strategizing. These are the two most pronounced in my mind. Reading them strikes me as so genuine that I can't bring myself to lynch him. I think the guy is a townie that's simply busy. As for Oats, I seem to always remember his play this game as a lot "townier" than his filter actually is. The bottom line is that one of the spazziest, craziest, insane town players on TL is playing anything but. A meta-tell I like using with Oats is something I talked with ObviousOne about a few months back. Oats always displays "madness". HOwever, when his madness is "focused", he is mafia. A town oats will spaz back and forth about everything in the thread, to the point of violently and uncompromisingly pushing unpopular lynches and attacking town leaders. This game, Oats is attacking lynch-bait. Lynch-bait, over and over again. And not only that, but he's remarkably passive about almost all of it. I can see the townieness in Slams' filter, and I really can't justify keeping Oats alive any more. His filter reads like scum, and I think we should kill Oats. ##Vote Oatsmatser | ||
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On September 03 2013 07:31 marvellosity wrote: Simply busy? He has a 4 page filter without a scumread. Really? Ok. Does that strike you as mafia-motivated? | ||
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Look at Slams recent mafia game (the latest newbie game). He's more than comfortable articulating scum-reads there. | ||
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On September 03 2013 07:37 marvellosity wrote: What newbie game please? I've no idea what he's played in. fast? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423708&user=Alakaslam | ||
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On September 03 2013 07:40 sciberbia wrote: so Alakaslam looks like he's getting lynched because he's not here to vote Oatsmaster =/ Doesn't strike me as mafia motivated. ^ | ||
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On September 03 2013 07:55 yamato77 wrote: Hapa y u scum Sigh. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:15 yamato77 wrote: This is why I pushed Hapascum Nobody listen to scumhunter extraodinaire Yams who is so good he's already dead in Aperture So are you going to talk to me about this scumread or not? | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: dude i listened to you. why does marv not listen to you? this game is so fucked up already i think they are both scum.. No one's listening to Yamato because his case is really bad and wrong. The only thing worth looking at from that case is if it's malicious or not. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:22 yamato77 wrote: I saw your response. I am not impressed. I don't think you read my posts too deeply if you think that was the only point against you. Well your other point is that "I spent no time discussion lynch targets", which I find to be pretty false given that I led the consolidation at the end of today (even if it was a mislynch). I was on the fence for most of the day because I've been pretty damn lost this game read wise. Normally I can tunnel a player and get the information I want, but players like yourself, Oats, Alakasam, Onegu, and others I need posts from either are horrendously inactive or absent from the thread when I'm here or something. SO yeah, my current view on the game is that scum is somewhere in the lurkers and that we have a circle-jerk of active townies who are willing to post. And that's a problem given how many goddamn inactives there are. As for my read on you... well what's wrong about it? You've been useless to your own admission this game: On September 02 2013 10:04 yamato77 wrote: I really haven't played town in a while, and certainly not with this group of players who I mostly find difficult to read. Generally, it's easy enough for me to get some townreads and go from there, but I have too many question marks and not enough time to really pin them all down. @scib I will give those reads, probably in the morning. I am unfortunately out of time right now. ... and I'm at a loss what to think of you. You're asleep/working when I'm active in the thread, and tunnel me when I'm gone. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: debears is most likely town yes. I do not like AT ALL the D1 wagon on Oats, i do not like AT ALL the D2 wagon on Oats. Do you think i am doing some fucking random stuff of fakeclaiming mason to save people? I do that because my read on Oats was so strong i can't see how he could possibly flip scum. Yes, i am not always right, but i am not stupid either. Two days, TWO FUCKING days there has been the Hopeless/Alakaslam lynch, what has happened the last couple of hours of the day? Hapahauli comes in and pushes Oats lynch because "he can't decide if this is town or scum Oats". Fuck that's so scummy i don't even know what to say! And people sheep. Did you even read my latest post on Oats before the lynch? Also, a significant reason of why Oats was the better lynch yesterday was because Alakasam simply wasn't here (and should have been modkilled). | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then why are you lynching Oats and not those inactive lurkers, like Alakaslam? Normally I can tunnel a player and get the information I want, but players like yourself, Oats, Alakasam, Onegu, and others I need posts from either are horrendously inactive or absent from the thread when I'm here or something. Oats was extremely inactive in the last few days, especially when compared to his town standards. That being said, I was wrong, and defending my lynch choice is nothing but a losing argument =/ | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: lol, your "best" point against Oats has been he has not been involved and "disappeared in critical times". My rationale for lynching Oats was far mor ethan that: As for Oats, I seem to always remember his play this game as a lot "townier" than his filter actually is. The bottom line is that one of the spazziest, craziest, insane town players on TL is playing anything but. A meta-tell I like using with Oats is something I talked with ObviousOne about a few months back. Oats always displays "madness". HOwever, when his madness is "focused", he is mafia. A town oats will spaz back and forth about everything in the thread, to the point of violently and uncompromisingly pushing unpopular lynches and attacking town leaders. This game, Oats is attacking lynch-bait. Lynch-bait, over and over again. And not only that, but he's remarkably passive about almost all of it. I can see the townieness in Slams' filter, and I really can't justify keeping Oats alive any more. His filter reads like scum, and I think we should kill Oats. ##Vote Oatsmatser But again, what do you want me to say? I was wrong, and I really can't defend my rationale in retrospect. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, that's bullshit because you said you have "changed your mind 3000x times on Oats". You can't possibly have a good read on him if you have done so! It's called making the best of a bad situation. The two lynch candidates were Slam and Oats. Both of which I have waffled on many times this game. So after looking at them both over the past few hours of the day, I had to make a decision. And I did. Tough decision, and a really bad decision in retrospect, but a decision nonetheless. Then you want to lynch him, of all the inactives who you now accuse of being scum. Because Oats is the most likely of them to stay inactive. Right? Bullshit. Of the list I gave, Oats and Slam were the only realistic lynch options. And I thought Slam was townier. And hell I thought Slam would have been modkilled which is extra incentive not to kill the guy. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:36 yamato77 wrote: The game is probably over at the daypost. That doesn't mean it should be played as if it's over. Anything like this is pure speculation. Hell I suspect that the water-level thing is more of a gimmick as opposed to some snow-ball mechanic for the winning party. | ||
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On September 03 2013 08:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Dear Serial Killer. If you want to stand chance of winnig this game shoot Hapahauli or Tutankoopa. Please. goodnight town! Why do I even bother talking to you >> | ||
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Also, if anyone wants a santiy-break from this game, I'mma going to try to hos tsome voice mafia games at 8:30 EST on TeamSpeak (exactly 40 minutes from this post). | ||
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On September 03 2013 11:15 thrawn2112 wrote: I forgot my password for the smurf account, tried to password reset, then forgot the email account associated with it. Oh well LOOOOOOOOOOOL | ||
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On September 03 2013 12:04 debears wrote: Btw Hapa and Scribs, How many scum do you think we have amongst the actives? I just have a gut feeling there is at least one. I really think 2 is the true answer doh I don't know if I like framing things like that. Maybe there's 1 active scum, but it's doubtful we're going to catch them unless we find the lesser one(s) first. | ||
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On September 04 2013 07:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Of course you don't.- Yeah well duh. I'm not feeling all too good about reads after the debacle that was yesterday's lynch. | ||
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I'm the Conditional Doctor. I can only use my power when the "water level" is over 750, and a successful save reduces the water level by 50. No breadcrumbs, nor do I ever use them as town. Saving debears, and hopefully a successful save and a drop in water-level will vindicate my claim to those suspicious of me. Wish me luck! | ||
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On September 04 2013 07:59 debears wrote: hmmm hapa i wonder if your protection will save me from myself Thank me later lolz | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: So me, as scum, saved town Oats on D1? Seriously you guys.. Well you saved Oats and voted another townie =/ | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: FUCK YOU! I ESPECIALLY TOLD YOU ALL TO VOTE FOR TUTANKOOPA! I DID NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR THRAWN AND YOU ARE LYING! WHY? I'm just sayin man. "I saved Oats" is not a defense. So what do you think of my claim? | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so, we have a doctor. There is no fucking way yamato is scum. ##Vote: Hapahauli How do you explain the fact that debears is alive right now? | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your claim is full of shit i say. Okay and why? Once again, how can you explain the fact that debears is alive? | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because any doctor should have been on him. And you scum did not hit him. Okay. So why don't we wait for the "other doctor" to "counterclaim" and go from there? | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: No Hapahauli, explain your statement "Why is debears not dead?" when there are 2 deaths? Because Alakslam got modkilled you retard | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is yamato not dead? Why do you think I asked for roleblock claims? The sane explanation is that it was a RB + Snipe (like they tried to do on dibbers on Day 1). | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: HAPAHAULI EXPLAIN: - Sciberbia got killed - There is a claimed confirmed town shot on yamato Why would you ask "why is debears not dead"? Are you saying town has 2 docs? I'm asking "why is debears not dead" because he made a giant martyr post claiming he was going to do 1KP damage to himself... and is not dead! Why? Because I targeted him. Not only that, but I made *clear* that I targeted him before his claim and before the night post. | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:17 debears wrote: This scum claim doh This is a retard claim. Not a scum-claim. | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:20 debears wrote: What happened to the 50 water level drop? Is that only for saves from mafia kp? Host gave me some vague answer, saying that "any blocked KP would result in -50 water level" | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you "don't know" what your save doe to water level, yet you include it in your claim! SEEMS LEGIT BRO! What are you even talking about? I do know what it does with mafia KP. I.e if I block mafia KP, the water level goes down 50. I have no fucking clue what it does to 3rd party self-damaging shit | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why exactly are you confirmed town. Explain. The fact that debears is alive right now. He claimed he was doing 1KP damage to himself (and thus killing himself). He didn't die. So someone had to have saved debears. The only person who has claimed that so far in-thread is me. So unless someone else claims doctor, I am confirmed town. | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well now it is, but why did you think it was? He made an entire post martyring himself and saying he'd kill himself. Do you honestly think that could be fake? | ||
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The only thing that matters is that a) we know that debears was telling the truth about his role PM b) he has no incentive to lie about killing himself and/or his night actions c) he did not die that night So REGARDLESS of whatever my actions are, the NIGHT MECHANICS confirm me as town. | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fine you are right. ##Unvote: damn you debears.. :E What dafuq is this? You're fucking dissapointed that I can't be scum? Did you lose your mislynch target or something? Why so sad? | ||
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On September 04 2013 08:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hapahauli, for real. Do you think marv is town? I have to read through his filter again. I have been leaning town on him up until now, yes. I'm going to go grab some dinner and compile some reads. On the bright side to this game, there are 7 non-confirmed players, and 3 scum. We have pretty good odds to catch one. | ||
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buckle up, because we're figuring out your allignment in the next 24 hours. On September 03 2013 08:32 yamato77 wrote: I'll be on for a while tonight. If you're town, we'll resolve this. If you pull this shit again, I'm insta-lynching you | ||
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By all sensible measures, he's town and we should be lookign elsewhere for today's lynch. | ||
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The roleblocker so far has been unconditional (if we are to believe debears, and what reason does he have to lie?) so it makes sense for the vigi to be unconditional as well. | ||
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We should be treating everyone null and starting over. It's LYLO, and we need to explore all possibilities. I'll be sure to look into TK and marv, but please give me your patience and look into a level head into the others as well. | ||
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On September 04 2013 09:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yessir. Now that i know you are town i will do that when you ask. I really felt like shit when you wanted to lynch Oats, lynch Oats and then lynch Oats whatever i said and that made me feel like you are scum. I'll sleep over night and take a full reread on everything. Well I can't say I've been playing well up until this point myself. However I have brought two towns back from LYLO, so this one's aint over yet. | ||
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On September 04 2013 12:26 yamato77 wrote: So I have some more time to reconsider, hm. Going to mulligan everything. Consider all of my posts before this one completely meaningless. I will carry this. I'm the best positioned to do so. How quickly can you mulligan? We have 48 hours. Gotta move quick. | ||
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On September 05 2013 05:57 yamato77 wrote: You're tipped your hand. Since when did you lose your confidence in me being town? Today we lynch scum. ##Vote Raynpelikoneet Are you really voting the guy with the 20 page filter and is emotionally switching votes on the drop of a hat? Really? Also, what happened to your Sn0 read? | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:12 Sn0_Man wrote: Yay hapa is here. Hapa I need somebody to sheep. Yam and rayn aren't any good for that right now. Find me scum! Yamato is being really really bad. I really want to kill Yamato, though I intend to give him a bit more time to see what he comes up with. | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP: above is a response to yamato He literally dropped all his scumreads, they all became town, and all of his townreads are now scum. No new evidence was brought up, besides sciberbia trying to shoot him, Hapa doccing debears and debears flipping 3p. 180's are possible. Hell remember you were telling me that Yamato "had to be town" only 24 hours ago. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=98#1944 ... but really nothing conclusive from you. | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:28 Sn0_Man wrote: Correct. I've read the thread and I'm pretty stumped. The person I'm most sure about being scum is probably marv, but I have the least real reasons for that. It's part gut and part the fact that I feel like the thread ought to make more sense than it does and I'm laying that at his feet. I thought Slam/Tofu/Oats were all scum and I came up dry 3 times :/ You seemed much more active in Persona 4 as town. Why the difference in activity this game? Also, when Yamato was tunneling me in the middle of the game, you basically said this: On September 03 2013 06:57 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmmm apologies all for nonexistant activity. Weekends and all that. Lets lynch oats. Hapa seems like a terrible lynch. Slam is an acceptable substitute but I don't feel like we are learning as much if we lynch him. He feels coinflippy whereas Oats feels scummy. ##Vote: Oatsmaster ... and left it at that. There was very little explanation to your read, and you seemed more dismissive of the suspicions on me than anything else. Can you explain your thought process a bit more? | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also can't see any reason for anyone to think thrawn is town. The dude has not done shit besides defended himself against me. Thrawn is notoriously bad at playing scum. He clams up a lot and starts playing very scared. Although this is all from a while ago, and I don't know how much it has changed. Also regarding that "vote analysis" post by Yamato, one thing that makes me think it's scummy is how absurdly shallow the reasoning in that post is. He looks at the vote posts, but none of the context and circumstance behind them. | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Skimming through debears' filter, one thing that bothers me is that debears devoted his D1 to getting Sylencia lynched. All we know is that debears is genunine, and not that he's 100% correct. That being said, where the fuck is Syl? | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is not true. WoS was purposely playing anti-town from the beginning and refused to explain himself to me multiple times. What am i supposed to do? Of course i made mistakes and could have looked things more objectively but it's pretty hard when someone refuses to explain anything to you. If you remember D1 i said "I am sure geript is scum but i can't justify lynching him to myself because every anti-town thing he does WoS does it 100x". After WoS got lynched it took me two phases to solve the game, and the only thing i was not sure of was you, because of what you are doing here aswell right now. Discrediting me without any real reason to do so. You can call my play or methos as bad as you wish but that doesn't change the fact that when i get my shit together i find scum. You are not helping with you comments atm. Please stop going off against everyone who criticizes you. It really isn't productive, and makes people not want to post freely | ||
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When you get back, I need an answer to the following: 1) How is it that your Sn0 read is so different from yesterday? 2) Your votecount analysis seems really shallow. You spend zero time looking into the context of those posts and take them all at face value. You should realize that voting has been chaotic and wishy-washy as a whole this game. 3) I really don't understand the complete inability for us to have a conversation this game. For example, this post... On September 03 2013 08:32 yamato77 wrote: I'll be on for a while tonight. If you're town, we'll resolve this. ...you made after you posted your case against me, seemingly promising to show some effort and talk to me. Instead you fucked off, did god knows what, and came back the next morning and tunneled me while I was gone. You seemed so much more interested in calling me scum than actually trying to determine my allignment. | ||
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On September 05 2013 07:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not going against people who criticize me. I don't give a fuck if someone thinks i am not worth listening. I go against arguments that are wrong. Yes, in Persona i mislynched on D1, after that i never had my vote on a townie in that game. I never accused a townie after that in the game (besides Sno_man). I didn't even get mad on Sno_man who refused to talk to me when i was trying to have a civilized conversation with him. On N2 I gave my resoning on the scum in the game that was right. Only thing i was not sure of was Sno_man. So comments like "I don't need to get into shouting matches regarding awful lynches since nobody is dumb enough to listen to rayn very much" i do not understand. Nobody ever gave me good reasons why thrawn is town D1. PEople just called my case bad, called me dumb, and thrawn town. It still remains a mystery to me why? I'm genuinely curious about this Rayn (and it's in no way an insult or anything) - but how often do scum tunnel you and/or are vocally suspicious of you in town games you play? | ||
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On September 05 2013 07:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Usually scum call me bad. Recent examples of these are FirmTofu & yamato in 4 Persona. FirmTofu and Corazon in Titanic. Or i get killed N1/N2. Last time scum tried to tunnel me was Ace in NWM N1. Didn't work out, too bad nobody realized he was scum. Who's been calling you bad this game? | ||
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On September 05 2013 07:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv. Hmmm ok. Though I suspect he calls you bad as town too | ||
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So they either poke you with "bad" comments and are dismissive of you or ignore you all together. I'll double check this tonight, but who are people who have interacted at length with you this game? | ||
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On September 05 2013 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, you and thrawn mostly. I have not played with thrawn before this. By calling me bad i mean not telling why my arguments are bad but rather just give the thread the impression "this guy is wrong and does not know what he is talking about" or not answering my arguments at all and the accusing me of shitting up the thread when i try to explain what i mean. I have never seen marv do this before. He is a guy who usually is willing to listen to me and if he thinks i am wrong he tells me where i am going wrong and why. His D1 play regarding me--thrawn was completely different from what it usually is. Can you elaborate on the marv bit? GIve us something concrete, and I think it would definetely warrant a response from marv. I will say that I think the difference might be due to your suspicion on him this game (to which he generally does not respond well). | ||
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Do you think he'd really entertain your suspicions on him for that long? He was remarkably patient with you considering how up-in-his-face you were on D1. | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: My problem with yamato is that when i read the 4 Persona scum chat mafia's reasoning for killing me was "you can't mislynch rayn", from yamato. In that game i had lynched a town parity cop on D1 and had a red check on me. Still yamato wanted to hit me. That does not go to his scum meta (why would he be accusing me here given that comment?), but i also understand he has to play very differently and try hard if he wants to survive amongst people in this game in case he is scum. His recent actions point towards him scum, and if he is unable to reasonably explain them i want to lynch him. Because right now he is not making any sense to me. Well you kinda beat me to it (and I was hoping to get some response from yamato before it), but yeah I think Yamato is town. Him going after you like this makes very little sense with how he generally plays scum. Also, him vocally questioning my doctor claim strikes me as absurd confirmation bias as opposed to malicious. My scumteam right now is probably Onegu/Sylencia, and I'm a bit lost on the third. I would say marv or sn0, relaly not sure. | ||
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Thoughts on Yamato? (since we were just talking about him) | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:07 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa, yamato, rayn I won't lynch any of them today. Why the particularly strong feelings on Yamato? | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:14 thrawn2112 wrote: As scum I think he'd be fucking off right about now. The way he's handling a situation where town is nearly fucked is very town-yamato-ish. To play devil's advocate, he really hasn't been all that present in the thread all game. Also, town-yamato-ish is much more active than what he's doing right now. In what ways does his specific behaviors point to his townie persona? | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:21 thrawn2112 wrote: Him not being active is part of that read. As town I've seen him mess around until town is screwed, then come back to the thread acting as if he's going to be the one to solve the game. Yeah the recent activity is not as much as I remember it being in past games, but overall his approach to the game feels much more like town than scum yamato, so much that he's not an acceptable D3 lynch. So you have 3 unacceptable lynches (of which I believe you all think are town-reads), you yourself will maintain that you're town. That probably leaves 3 scum of the next 4 players. Who's your scumteam? Or if that's too specific, who are you leaning strongest scum on? Who are you wavering the most on? | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think Onegu is scum. He had his good post about Sno on N2 and when i was questioning him on his FT meta read the response i got in the end was really genuine. Which post in particular? My general opinion of Onegu is that his play has been incredibly detatched. I also do not think Sno is scum. I do not know what he would do with me if he was scum, but his stance on me seems like the same than when he is town. Sn0 is my null-read right now. I'd need much more time with him. Yamato needs to explain himself. Sylencia is a good lynch. Marv and Thrawn too. One of those guys is probably town and others are scum. Agree on syl, not sold on Thrawn. Marv's absence is troubling. | ||
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On September 05 2013 08:40 thrawn2112 wrote: Yep, currently looking at marv, sno, onegu, and sylencia. I really don't know who I'd pick as town from that group. I would be completely for lynching onegu had he not made that post about pms. I'm having trouble seeing why he would post that as mafia and I *might* say he's my most confident town read. Explain please? Syl I just haven't read in awhile. ... I have yet to go through syl's stuff so I'll make a case on my top one or two lynch candidates after I've done that. Right now those are marv/sn0. Get back to me on Syl. | ||
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I can see getting townie-vibes from that, but nothign particularly robust. It's natural for anyone to talk about the subject (PM'ing the host about discussion of an ongoing game), especially if it pertains to your suspicions and defense of said suspicion after a mislynch. | ||
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Didn't catch that. That's kinda wierd. | ||
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Eh. That does seem townie, but I'm not sure if it gives me a horrendously strong town-read on Onegu. | ||
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On September 05 2013 09:04 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah. Other than that I want to lynch him. But that one thing makes me go o.0? Have you looked into Syl yet? | ||
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GIve me that post on Sn0 and Syl that you promised thrawn Marv, Onegu, Syl, Sn0, and Yamato - anything we get from you guys is what is going to find us the scumteam. | ||
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On September 05 2013 09:18 thrawn2112 wrote: No. After I've read him I'll post complete thoughts on everyone. While you're here, what do you think of this speculation? Before this I was pretty confused about why your save didn't lower the water level but this explanation makes perfect sense. It makes so much sense then I'm pretty sure sn0 had extra information. Yeah it make an eerie amount of sense o.O But dinner time, bb in an hour or two | ||
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On September 05 2013 10:26 yamato77 wrote: You know why my Sn0 read is different, I fucking explained it. And yes, the vote analysis is shallow because it is just an indicator of POSSIBLE mafia. I say in the post that it's inconclusive because it is. I'm not all the way done reforming my reads. No, you didn't explain at all why your Sn0 read is different. Let me walk you through your filter: Before my night actions, you were all aboard the hapa/sn0 scumteam train: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=91#1815 Then you "mulligan" your reads, and post your vote-analysis, in which you call Sn0 "possible mafia" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=99#1961 ... after which you conclude that 3 other people are scum. Still nothing about your sn0 town read. So no, you did not explain why your Sn0 read is different. Ever. Rayn flip flopping about my alignment is fucking fishy, dude. That's why I voted for the guy with the 20 page filter who has been fucking around the whole damn game. So why is it scummy as opposed to Rayn being absurdly emotional? | ||
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Sn0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19635723 “consolidation vote” on Slam http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19637580 “consolidation vote” on FT Both instances, doesn’t seem to care which of them gets lynched. Mentions Syl/Oats as other people he MIGHT vote for at other odd times, but never makes a real push himself. Squirms out of voting for Syl because of something Marv said. Possible mafia. On September 05 2013 03:25 yamato77 wrote: I don't feel good about lynching Hapa because you're probably right about the doctor claim. That, and I've played like shit until now and I think I should completely ignore my biases against him. Not lynching thrawn. He sucks ass at mafia and I highly doubt he would be able to pull this off. Sylencia actually looks the best out of every save Hapa/Thrawn on the voting. That combined with his general higher activity than normal makes me think he's town. I looked hard at you last night but I have begun to seriously doubt that you're actually mafia. You seemed to play just like this in Persona. that really only leaves Marv/Rayn/Onegu as possible mafia, and I can believe any one of them capable of playing the way they have this game as mafia. I had townreads on them before because of how much they fuck up the thread, but I realize that Rayn is known for doing that kind of thing as scum with his scumbuddy before. Then you threw in a line here about Sn0. However that still doesnt' really tell me anything. How is the same? Does "similar" play preclude Sn0's scumgame? | ||
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On September 04 2013 09:27 marvellosity wrote: I know I have a decent chunk of time tomorrow evening, so I shall use it wisely Marvel-babe Where are uuuuuuuuu | ||
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On September 05 2013 16:29 thrawn2112 wrote: Hi Hapa. Can you give 3 scumreads? One or two sentences each? Feel no need to at this point. Since I'm confirmed town, I'd much rather wait on what other people have to say before I start making very concrete reads. I do have scum-reads, but I'd ideally like to see other people who are not confirmed contribute. | ||
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I have outstanding questions to Yamato As for Sn0... just reading his filter right now | ||
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On September 05 2013 22:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay now seriously guys, Hapa and Sylencia: Is your rolename seriously Conditional [insert role here]?? Yes. However you're getting on very edgy territory by analyzing role PMs. @ Sylencia I'm Conditional Lynchproof. Only works while water level is 750+, but if I was to be lynched the water level rises by 100 instead (and the next highest dies still). Crumbed it last night because that's when it became active (in the case of vig shots), but looks like no one caught on to it. Where is your breadcrumb? Rayn's case though, is next level reading and it's something where if you read it in the eyes of scum marv, you wouldn't ever really be able to see that kind of hole because you don't consider that sort of analysis on that post. ##Vote marvellosity You voted marv under this rationale, but it's really wonky. A "next level reading" case isn't justification to vote someone, nor do I understand wtf that even means. | ||
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On September 06 2013 04:44 Onegu wrote: This is the only night syl can be confirmed. If you have doubts about his claim, like I do the water should only go down from here. We most likely have to lynch scum everyday to win. Meaning the water will only go down. If it goes up by 100 it will still go down when mafia dies. Since it went up by 200 everytime a town got lynched I am guessing the same will happen when mafia dies which gets us below the 750 mark for syl to be lynchproof. Lynching him now either confirms him with little risk or kills scum. No other day can we do that and still win if he is telling the truth. THe problem with this plan is that it's very doubtful town has the voting power to secure both the #'s 1 and 2 lynch. We probably have 5 townies left in a town of 8 people, which means that 4 townies *must* be on the correct wagon to prevent any last minute switch scenarios by scum. | ||
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On September 06 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey hapa, do you have a vanilla fakeclaim? It's a sample vanilla PM, but yeah I do | ||
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On September 06 2013 04:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hapahauli, can you read the whole thread, give your best lynch candidate with reasoning and we work from there. You definitely have not read it all. I'm working through marv right now. | ||
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On September 06 2013 04:37 Onegu wrote: Because I dont believe syl is town, I think he fake claimed. The thing is... how can you be so sure of this? You didn't say really anything about Syl since Day 1. Also, his claim (if anything) is reason to doubt him being scum, and not the trigger to believe he's mafia. | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: STOP TALKING UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE THREAD! Please! I've read the thread, and I'm pursuing my own line of questioning. I know you guys have voted marv, and I know about that wierd-ass Sylencia vote-claim thing. And now I want to hear from Onegu, so stfu. | ||
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On September 05 2013 20:37 yamato77 wrote: Sn0 played this same sort of disconnected game where he was just... there as town in Persona. Is he capable of playing mafia this way? I don't know. But it isn't enough for me to want to lynch him. The fact that he's attempted to be a voice of reason today gives me some encouragement. I have doubts, and I cannot doubt my lynch choice today. Rayn I voted for because of how I view his voting habits. Yes, there is context, but there is also an overriding mindset that should be the determining force in the placement of votes. Town players seldom vote for what they would label a mislynch, no matter what context. Also, he flips his read on me as I question my assumptions about his ability to emulate this sort of play as mafia. I doubted it before, but do I necessarily want to risk losing a game to him on the assumption that he can't reliably fake being a fucking nutjob as scum? Not really. As for who I want to lynch, I'm yet undecided. It would be lovely if Marv gave a fuck about this game, but apparently he doesn't. Is this necessarily something I attribute to scum Marv? No, but it certainly doesn't help him in the face of his weak voting history and his lack of initiative in scumhunting. I suppose I feel better about his lynch than just about anyone else. I have my misgivings about trusting Rayn, but I suppose that will always be the case with someone who plays mafia better than they do town. ##Unvote ##Vote Marvellosity I really, really don't understand this vote at all. "I'm undecided to vote marv. I'm not sure about marv's allignment. I'mma vote marv." That is litereally what you posted. | ||
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On September 06 2013 01:05 Sylencia wrote: That doesn't even make sense though considering we're not allowed to quote PMs, and the extent of a VT claim is just "Guys I'm VT", right? -_- Well anyway, I read this over and over again looking for a town-sylencia explanation, but one doesn't come to mind. So this confirms him as scum, no? Or at the very-least, it confirms him as not blue, and a town certainly wouldn't have incentive to fake-claim in this spot (much less a passive player like sylencia). If so, let's kill the guy who's making a confirmed fakeclaim first. We'll deal with marv tomorrow. ##Vote Sylencia | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hapa.... Noooooo.. I want to lynch mafia!marv, now! Why the fuck would Sylencia fakeclaim as mafia when there are no votes on anyone but marv?? Please, kill marv first! Well apparently Sylencia did fakeclaim, no? I had similar doubts that you're expressing right now, but that quote by him seems pretty cut and dry. The way I see it, Sylencia is 100% fake-claiming. That much is proven. If so, why are we taking a risk by killing someone else instead of the confirmed liar? | ||
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Huh. | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i am not. I am suggesting that he is trying to save marv, because that's the only fucking thing mafia can do right now. Then they kill you and marv is gonna try to squirm out of getting lynched because i am a liar, bad and bla bla bla. That makes absolutely no sense. I have no idea why we wouldn't kill a *confirmed* fakeclaimer first as opposed to any other person right now. Fuck we need to kill marv now because he is the roleblocker and you will not die the next night! Wha. How does that make sense? | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:28 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm kinda willing to believe that the host is fucking with us tho since rayn claims his role isn't conditional on water level whereas all 3 other blue roles (and the 3p role as well) have been. I wouldn't put it past him to provide a fakeclaim to some but not all the blue roles in the same way. I don't buy that explanation. Hosts fucking with PM's is a hosting no-no. Alternatively since we've seen the role PMs of the other blue players we know that any fake claim would be received in a different PM, its possible the host forgot to provide sylencia with a fake-claim. Plausible. I'm merely going over possibilities since this lynch MUST be certain and my reads don't really align with syl scum. Why not? | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: [/QUOTE]Because if mafia does not roleblock you you self-doc and LIVE TO WIN! No no no... how dafuq do you know that marv is the roleblocker? That's nonsensical. | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mafia is all inning to save their roleblocker. If that was someone else than marv Sylencia would not have claimed scum. Their only chance is to save marv the roleblocker, kill you and WIFOM me. When have you ever seen mafia all-in to save the roleblocker in any game you've played? If marv is scum, roleblocker or not, you probably all-out bus the guy. | ||
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Are you around? | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:39 thrawn2112 wrote: Hapa why is it a fake claim? Because there's no vt fake claim? Why would he fake claim as mafia when he did? What do you think about the role in general, plausible or not? You don't like the breadcrumb? Breadcrumb is fine, and the role-claim is plausible. I guess I shouldn't be putting too much stock into the role PM stuff. It seems l ike you guys have your heart set on lynching marv. At this point, I doubt there's much I could do to stop you, nor do I have any real compelling evidence to do so. My gut read on marv is still town, and I'd expect far more pro-active scumplay from him than to afk for the past 48 hours. Anyway, I'm goign to be on for another 30 minutes and then I have to go to class. I won't be able to check the thread on my computer until after the deadline, however I"ll be able to check stuff on my phone and move votes around accordingly. | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:49 thrawn2112 wrote: If you can please post why you think marv is town before you go. It's a gut feeling. Just by how emotional he's been this game, and his thought process has seemed genuine. I think a lot of the cases against him are putting too high expectations on his game. To put it bluntly, he hasn't been playing all that well in past town games. | ||
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You're looking to make big plays instead of sane plays. | ||
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##Vote Marv | ||
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i assume that's a scumclaim from him | ||
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bad joke | ||
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Of all the votes on marv, his seems like a screamingly obvious bus in hindsight: Rayn's case though, is next level reading and it's something where if you read it in the eyes of scum marv, you wouldn't ever really be able to see that kind of hole because you don't consider that sort of analysis on that post. ##Vote marvellosity I'm around for a couple of hours if anyone is here for questions. He laud's Rayn's case as "next level reading" (dafuq does that even mean) without any additional explanation. The entire vote is non-sensical, poorly explained, and buddies the case of someone that's going to look very townie post-flip. What's more interesting about that post though is the implication that scum had to have bussed marv. Sylencia was the 3rd vote on the wagon, and there's a very high chance that marv made some sort of "command" to the effect. As a result, Sn0 comes across looking very townie from the waning hours of Day 1. He was incredibly indecisive, and his play doesn't make very much sense from a scum-team that was committed to bus. Thrawn is a *possible* bussing candidate, however given the way that marv has been treating Thrawn all game, it's likely that Thrawn is town. Marv just kinda takes his allignment for granted and trusts him (as Rayn's case pointed out earlier), which makes little sense if they're scum-buddies. As for Onegu, I really can't see him being scumbuddies with Syl after his whole "I PM'd Syl... is that illegal?" thing. That leaves Yamato, and well, nothing much redeeming there. Useless Yamato is scum yamato after all. | ||
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On September 06 2013 09:41 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah tldr I don't have much to say other than hapa/rayn are town, and sn0 had the towniest D3 out of everyone else. that only leaves yam/syl. Well there's also Onegu but yah | ||
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On September 06 2013 09:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: No Onegu is town. I agree. I'm just saying there's a gap in the analysis | ||
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Again, I agree with you. | ||
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On September 06 2013 10:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can i now say: "Hapa, what the hell were you doing?" I refer to what? huh? | ||
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oh lawl | ||
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On September 06 2013 10:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am ashamed for you for not catching marv. :/ Yeah D= I've been playing like shit this game. Haven't put any time into this game whatsoever =/ | ||
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On September 06 2013 10:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: are you scum? Isoscummyvoteme | ||
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On September 06 2013 10:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well, for real, who is scum? i don't see anyone but yamato being scum atm. Syl for sure. Leaning very heavy on Yamato being scum, but it's worth looking at everything just in case. Maybe a small chance of us being wrong about Sn0. | ||
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*shrug* | ||
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On September 06 2013 16:02 yamato77 wrote: Tomorrow, while high on pain meds after a root canal, I am going to name the last two scum, and then get told I'm wrong and mislynched for the loss of town. Watch. Well if you're town, it's your day to shine and start actually playing the game >> | ||
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On September 06 2013 16:53 Onegu wrote: @ Hapa thoughts on sn0 being the final scum? Plausible. Depends on what performance Yamato can put on tomorrow. | ||
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Mafia have many options at LYLO to fuck with the town. A fake claim is one of them. It might seem like an "unnecessary" play, but it's a possible play (and one we have a lot of evidence for). That's what playing mafia's all about anyway - making enough "unnecessary" plays to distract people from catching on to you pushing your objectives. | ||
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Sooo you spent the entirety of today trying to figure out ways to call a confirmed townie scum. And you say this is town Yamato? | ||
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Regarding fakeclaims (since that seems to be the discussion topic)... they're not good. I understand the individual short-term objectives behind each of your claims (saving Oats, etc), but that analysis fails to take into account the much more important long-term ramifications of your actions. The main one being your in-game perception. Towns often want to sheep level-headed town leaders, who they perceive as both in-control and objective. When you start fake-claiming at the drop of a hat, you come across as emotional and spazztic. It's no coincidence that people weren't listening to you in the early game - because your play in the early game (exacerbated by the fake claims) didn't project a "town leader" persona. It destroyed a lot of the credibility you had in the thread, which is a shame because you're a damn good player when you keep your emotions in check. In regards to the individual claims themselves, I think the justifications behind them begin to break down when you start to analyze more of these long-term ramifications: On September 13 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is it: My mason claim: - To keep Oats, obvious townie alive. Definitely helped town, would have helped more if Oats was not a retard and would have realized he should go with the plan. Mafia could have shot me (because scum don't want confirmed town alive). Even if i was scum Oats should have gone with it, because if he get's shot that will point fingers on me as he'll flip non-mason. Yes you saved Oats, however the claim was so sudden and confusing that it pushed the town to lynch a random lurker (FirmTofu) and removed a lot of potential vote controversy and information. The claim was one of the huge factors in destroying the possibility of a productive Day 1 lynch. Furthermore, Oats ended up getting lynched anyway the next day. Your claim only temporarily saved Oats and created a ton of confusion (bad) in the process. My getting shot claim: There was a possibility scum hit doc's target and debears was making a big play. I could not believe he was a vet as i was (and i was correct lol). Bad decision, but whatevs. Me claiming to be shot lead me after marv on D2-D3 start. HE was very eager in knowing what happened with the shots N1 and N2. Scum tend to want to know if there really is SK or not. Town doesn't care so much, they need to kill any anti-town. This wasn't too terribly bad on a macro level, however it was still a huge mistake. Firstly, claiming veteran is a really bad idea in general, even when you get shot. You basically tell scum exactly what happened with their KP, which they wouldn't know otherwise. Also, your claim actually created an information advantage for the scum here. Scum knew they had 1KP. Town (and myself) ran around for a while trying to figure out where a 2nd KP came from that never existed. It's small (and was ultimately inconsequential), but creating information advantages for scum is generally a really bad idea. My SK claim last night: I tried to fake i am SK so that Onegu would think he loses unless he shoots me. :D This was OK. Anyway Rayn, the larger point here is that playing town is more than about pushing your reads at the expense of everything else in the thread. You can't walk into a thread and go "fuck everything else, I'm going to push my reads", because you're going to fuck thread atmosphere in the process. I think you'll notice that when you began to calm down (after Day 2), all of a sudden everyone started listening to you and you led two scum lynches. If there's anythign to take away from this game, this is it. You have the scum-hunting skills, but you'll be a fantastic player when you learn how to play diplomat a bit more. | ||
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On September 13 2013 09:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa any thoughts on the day 1 replacement on the main lynch target? From a hosting perspective, I don't believe players should be replaced until after deadlines, or else moderation actions start to interfere greatly with game actions. It's not an egregious mistake, but something that hosts should pay a bit more heed to IMO. From an in-game perspective, not lynching the replacement is almost always the correct move. | ||
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I played pretty goddamn terrible this game. I didn't have enough time to invest in this game, and it pretty clearly showed in my play. Shout-out to Onegu for a very solid scum-game, and to marv for throwing yet another wrinkle in his scum-game that I have to see through next time >> | ||
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Actually me claiming i was shot did not create an info adv to scum imo. Tell me if you disagree here: - I claimed AFTER debears (scum already know what happened). - When i claimed (i am not scum), scum go, "wtf?? 2 KP? vigi? SK?" - I had reasons to believe debears is not a real vet (as i was, 2 vets lol?) - I wanted to know if he was scum fakeclaiming or something else (we would find out that later) Well when debears flipped, scum should have clearly known there was no SK. Perhaps before debears' flip you have a point, but not after. But again, this is all minor, and the point is that these fake claims have the potential to create situations like these (which are never good for town). | ||
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