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For reference:
On August 21 2013 00:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi is far worse as town as he is as scum or 3p. He is almost definitely town.
WoS on the other hand... Can you now comment on my case?
On August 23 2013 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:One thing that always happens when he is town but never when he is scum is "Policy lynch vayne".
Okay his defence of tofu is very mildy different:
On August 23 2013 05:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have pushed FT mislynch as town. I have pushed FT mislynch as mafia. I have pushed FT lynch as twon when he was mafia. I know how he reacts to the situation and he is not mafia in this game. Period.
On August 23 2013 05:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Yes it is. FirmTofu says stupid stuff as town. Especially early on in the game. when he is attacked as mafia he tries his best to show his "towniness" and discredits the attacker and his arguments. He fights back. Town FirmTofu rolls over and dies, leaving his thoughts behind.
Do you have a better reason for him to triple-hard-defend on meta? He is scum so he's hard-defending people to get them to like him. If he was town he'd at least let people defend themselves.
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On August 24 2013 01:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
Would you like someone who hard defended you snoman?
Its human instinct to do so. I'd try my best to make myself suspicious of said person though simply because it is mafia, and a popular mafia tactic is to buddy up to townies when it is easy and relatively risk-free to do so.
However, when your day 1 play boils down to "IMMA VOTE FOR ANYBODY WHO VOTES ME" (literally exactly VA's day 1 see him vs me and yamato, and also a lot of FT) one would assume your ability to objectively judge people who are judging you (positively AND negatively) is seriously limited.
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On August 24 2013 02:02 VayneAuthority wrote:
Don't get lynched as town ---> did your job
In other words, if everybody votes for no-lynch, then townies all did their job because they didn't get lynched. And at the same time they can't ever win lol.
Town's job has absolutely nothing to do with not getting lynched, and absolutely everything to do with LYNCHING MAFIA. If you think that you did your job by not getting lynched and voting for YAMATO of all people then I have some news for you: Thats only your job if you are scum.
Mafia have inevitability via the NK, town MUST have urgency or else they lose.
PS I can't bullshit the night away like you Vayne I won't be here most of the D2 cycle so I have to put my thoughts out there now.
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Its hard to read you as town when you did literally no scumhunting D1, threw away your vote on somebody who obviously wasn't getting lynched AND never even tried to convince others to lynch him, made no case on him beyond "well you voted me and I warned you I'll vote you back" and are now calling him "insanely scummy" still without further justification. And are implying that you have done your job and that it certainly couldn't be even a fraction your fault that we just lynched a powerful blue role.
I'd love to hear some reasons why yamato is scummy. Preferably compare/contrast them to A) a confirmed red check and B) Actively driving a mislynch for ~70 hours.
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EBWOP: above was @vayne obviously.
@Oats obviously I'm into lynching scum right now. If I was into lynching bad play I'd be campaigning for a Vayne lynch right now. Instead I'm trying to get him to actually do anything.
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Getting red checked = bad play.
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I wouldn't mind lynching Koshi only its literally impossible for Koshi to be scum and rayn to be town unless: Koshi is scum, claimed Self Aware Miller, then got Framed to green by a scum ally so that (get this) any check on him would give away that he lied from the very start of the game.
Or I suppose rayn got framed to red or is a NSAM but I don't buy there being a SAM and NSAM in the same game and I don't buy a scumteam involving Koshi (who has yet to seriously disagree with rayn the entire game) FRAMING rayn. It would make koshi look bad if rayn gets red checked.
So basically as far as I'm concerned there is 0 reason to lynch Koshi over rayn.
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On August 24 2013 02:24 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 02:18 Sn0_Man wrote:
Its hard to read you as town when you did literally no scumhunting D1, threw away your vote on somebody who obviously wasn't getting lynched AND never even tried to convince others to lynch him, made no case on him beyond "well you voted me and I warned you I'll vote you back" and are now calling him "insanely scummy" still without further justification. And are implying that you have done your job and that it certainly couldn't be even a fraction your fault that we just lynched a powerful blue role.
I'd love to hear some reasons why yamato is scummy. Preferably compare/contrast them to A) a confirmed red check and B) Actively driving a mislynch for ~70 hours. whats the point of convincing you of anything when you are already too biased? All of the things you just said describe yamato also but he somehow isn't scummy to you. Hmm.. 1. threw away his vote as well 2. did no scumhunting 3. said he would not change his vote no matter what
Yamato contributed more day 1. I really wish he didn't also play awfully by voting the way he did, but he isn't here claiming he did his job by OMGUSing. The very act of taking the initiative to vote for somebody of his own accord is better than just sitting there waiting for somebody to vote you so you can vote them back.
I mean, you just listed what he did, said he did the same as you, and described him as insanely scummy. Also where did I call him "not scummy" I said nobody made a case on him including you.
Really, I don't want to lynch you for at least 5 IRL days so I'm not sure why you are so convinced I'm biased against you.
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@vayne Sorry, I don't have the time to comprehensively reread 14 people every time they post. I start with a read, and it develops as they post (yam looked town). If you wish to make me reconsider, make a case and if it looks promising I will re-evaluate that person completely via filter etc. Very simple.
Did you seriously just say that "When I'm Scummy that means I'm town"?
This from the guy that started the game with "Please don't judge me by meta but rather by actions" at the start of this game. I just quoted that post like last page.
Yamato contributing more is absolutely objective because he took any initiative whatsoever instead of sitting inside his castle waiting for somebody to come and attack him. He bothered to even call somebody scummy instead of literally "I warned you this would happen" and counter vote 0 argument.
You are free to contribute now though, and if you wish to do so then more power to you. If you achieve anything I'll get off your back.
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On August 24 2013 02:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote + The very act of taking the initiative to vote for somebody of his own accord is better than just sitting there waiting for somebody to vote you so you can vote them back. Why?
Because the latter is not doing anything. Not doing anything defaults to mafia victory. I've explained this already. Town does not win by sitting on their ass and waiting for shit to go down.
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On August 24 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 02:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
I wouldn't mind lynching Koshi only its literally impossible for Koshi to be scum and rayn to be town unless: Koshi is scum, claimed Self Aware Miller, then got Framed to green by a scum ally so that (get this) any check on him would give away that he lied from the very start of the game.
Or I suppose rayn got framed to red or is a NSAM but I don't buy there being a SAM and NSAM in the same game and I don't buy a scumteam involving Koshi (who has yet to seriously disagree with rayn the entire game) FRAMING rayn. It would make koshi look bad if rayn gets red checked.
So basically as far as I'm concerned there is 0 reason to lynch Koshi over rayn. So Snoman, if koshi had a green check on any day, is he scum?
I'd assume he was framed since nobody in their right minds claims SAM as a role that shows green to cop checks. That doesn't really affect his alignment. It would actually look good for Koshi since it seems unlikely that scum would frame themselves to green after claiming red.
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In other words, it would make Koshi look very very good although now that it has been discussed scum has figured this out too and it becomes WIFOM. Hell they may have thought it through N0 for all I know.
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A) what exactly does the word "meta" mean to you? to me it means "Using past games of mafia of this player to in any way affect my opinions of his current play and/or alignment". Which as far as I can tell is what you are asking me to do. Yes my description is a verb and meta is a nounish thing. You get the idea.
B) so when you are mafia you do stuff but when you are town you can't be assed to try to even look like you are doing stuff or in any other way town aligned. Great.
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On August 24 2013 03:08 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 02:51 Sn0_Man wrote:On August 24 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 24 2013 02:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
I wouldn't mind lynching Koshi only its literally impossible for Koshi to be scum and rayn to be town unless: Koshi is scum, claimed Self Aware Miller, then got Framed to green by a scum ally so that (get this) any check on him would give away that he lied from the very start of the game.
Or I suppose rayn got framed to red or is a NSAM but I don't buy there being a SAM and NSAM in the same game and I don't buy a scumteam involving Koshi (who has yet to seriously disagree with rayn the entire game) FRAMING rayn. It would make koshi look bad if rayn gets red checked.
So basically as far as I'm concerned there is 0 reason to lynch Koshi over rayn. So Snoman, if koshi had a green check on any day, is he scum? I'd assume he was framed since nobody in their right minds claims SAM as a role that shows green to cop checks. That doesn't really affect his alignment. It would actually look good for Koshi since it seems unlikely that scum would frame themselves to green after claiming red. wrong conclusion.
Then what is your conclusion?
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On August 24 2013 03:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
that koshi is definitely town
On August 24 2013 02:53 Sn0_Man wrote:
In other words, it would make Koshi look very very good although now that it has been discussed scum has figured this out too and it becomes WIFOM. Hell they may have thought it through N0 for all I know.
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Also its entirely hypothetical unless rayn flips town and in that case its still hypothetical because rayn says he believes HE was framed. Or unless you wish to claim alignment cop and got a green check on Koshi last night (you may wish to save that claim for the morning though for obvious reasons).
Even in that circumstance Koshi BEING town doesn't mean rayn is.
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EBWOP I was talking to oats still
@FT: they could both just be scum no framing involved.
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If you wish to vig rayn I'm super down for that. Wish I had boolets or something.
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PPS rayn godfather is also possible lets not leave those out.
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Rayn has 6 possibilities: Town, Town but framed, Town but miller, Scum, Scum but framed, GF.
Koshi really only has: SAM, SAM Framed, Scum. I'm discounting Scum Framed atm.
SO:
RAYN | KOSHI
scum | scum
scum | SAM
town | SAM framed
town framed | SAM
town framed | scum
GF | SAM framed
town miller | SAM
town miller | scum
I think thats it lol. Rayn can't be framed scum since koshi then couldn't be framed.
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EPT
