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On August 20 2013 17:06 Ace wrote:
You brought up the PM fiasco which at first made me think you were town because I did mess up. But you kept talking about it and being worried I wasn't PMing you. I dont think anyone should really care that someone isn't PMing them unless it's a clear issue of them hiding info. Besides most people know I rarely PM people in these kinds of games since Townies do dumb things like hide info that needs to be public and trust each other too much in PM land.
Wait what PM fiasco?
Also my town!"train of thought" was "Ace is clueless -> why does he not ask me what's going on because i could easily answer him". I could have probably defended that.
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you told me to vote for you iirc, but I didn't read it and instead voted for Risen. If Scum shot him we would have no lord so you voted for yourself instead.
But I told you this and you brought the issue of me not PMing you up again later which made me think you might just be trying to throw dirt which is scummy. Then Risen's actions later caused me to kind of drop it and wonder why he didn't case you.
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11589 Posts
Like I said in obs, there was one night during D1 that I ignored the thread. I'm overall just lazy as scum, lol.
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On August 20 2013 17:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Risen, you were really good in proving your towniness imo. Had i been town i think we would have been really close to destroying the scum team from the beginning. You were really easy to talk to in PM's and while you think way differently than i do i think we would end up in good conclusions.
I don't think you played bad, you just needed some support you didn't have. I disagree heavily. I was slightly leaning town, but Risen was so hard to PM with.... No logic, stupid theories, starting to say I'm 100% scum for nonexistent reasons... Afterwards just silence. Okay, in hindsight, he really did have a townie mindset, just otherwise so horrible to communicate with that it was hard to say for sure.
Hmm.. I dunno why but for me Risen was really easy to PM with. Different people need to be talked differently with. Like, i seriously need to figure out in how to work with Clarity in the future. There has now been two games where we have had really stupid rants with each other because i can't get my message clearly to him. I dunno what's up with that (of course in this game i did not really care and just went on and on with it :D).
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@yamato
I actually vigi'd you in Sicilian Mafia because you were talking nonsense, not laziness 
How did Sharrant catch you?
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On August 20 2013 17:21 Ace wrote:
you told me to vote for you iirc, but I didn't read it and instead voted for Risen. If Scum shot him we would have no lord so you voted for yourself instead.
But I told you this and you brought the issue of me not PMing you up again later which made me think you might just be trying to throw dirt which is scummy. Then Risen's actions later caused me to kind of drop it and wonder why he didn't case you.
Oh okay. That was really a random thought, i don't even know why i brought that up. I tend to post whatever comes to mind and i didn't really understand why did you vote for Risen. I "had a townread on you" all the time, i could not possibly see why you would be mafia (as i wouldn't as town), as i think i recognize the differences in your scum/town play.
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Hmm I thought clarity was good to work with. He was pissed with me in the end. But I would gladly team with him.
Like u said. To each their own.
Xat was frustrating for me.. too transparent. Perhaps that's what I'm like as I'm known for flipflopping reads instantly. It's very annoying as u don't know where u stand even though there is complete transparency
Oberyn and onegu were great to work with in pm land. They unintentionally motivated me to read the game. I was serious when I entered and said I had no care to catch up.
And yeah. Iamp. My issue with u was that u were working with rayn and I had rayn in my scum list. Guess that's a heuristic I have to drop.
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The problem with the town was that people had (correctly) townreads on each other "because of PM's" and then many people did not do anything in thread (Onegu is a good example of this). It was easy to call people out for their thread posts and you can't really blame me for not knowing what you have PM'd with them. That's why people should not hide in PM-land.
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Lol, I dunno why you had difficulties with Clarity. He was one of the only players in the game who I could communicate fluently with. But Risen... I still have nightmares. Maybe it's because it felt like he was living in his own world or something. After he decided something, it was the only truth and nothing else mattered. No matter how stupid it was. Townie decisiveness? Scummy intentional confirmation bias? Hard to say for sure. The final nail in the coffin was when he started to accuse me with something out of thin air. And then... No apology. Nothing. Just total silence. I lost my interest to cooperate with him after that, and finally I managed to get him to shoot johnnywup (and be didn't even honor our agreement). Can you blame me for doubting his townieness?
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On August 20 2013 17:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem with the town was that people had (correctly) townreads on each other "because of PM's" and then many people did not do anything in thread (Onegu is a good example of this). It was easy to call people out for their thread posts and you can't really blame me for not knowing what you have PM'd with them. That's why people should not hide in PM-land.
Onegu just felt so sincerely townish especially in PMs and also in thread to a lesser extent. Gut feeling, I guess? And I really facepalmed hard when he was lynched....
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You got Risen to shoot me? 
I had a pretty strong townread on Risen the last couple days. I dunno what he was like in PMs though
On August 20 2013 17:48 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem with the town was that people had (correctly) townreads on each other "because of PM's" and then many people did not do anything in thread (Onegu is a good example of this). It was easy to call people out for their thread posts and you can't really blame me for not knowing what you have PM'd with them. That's why people should not hide in PM-land. Onegu just felt so sincerely townish especially in PMs and also in thread to a lesser extent. Gut feeling, I guess? And I really facepalmed hard when he was lynched....
I facepalmed hard when he was lynched too but since it was 2-2 with him getting 2 first I was scared to say anything because I didn't want someone to randomly switch to me :x
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Haha Mocsta. I think it's working for me since I've been semi-confirmed town from D1 in all my recent games  Even as scum (LOL). Transparency for the win!
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On August 20 2013 17:44 Xatalos wrote:
Lol, I dunno why you had difficulties with Clarity. He was one of the only players in the game who I could communicate fluently with. But Risen... I still have nightmares. Maybe it's because it felt like he was living in his own world or something. After he decided something, it was the only truth and nothing else mattered. No matter how stupid it was. Townie decisiveness? Scummy intentional confirmation bias? Hard to say for sure. The final nail in the coffin was when he started to accuse me with something out of thin air. And then... No apology. Nothing. Just total silence. I lost my interest to cooperate with him after that, and finally I managed to get him to shoot johnnywup (and be didn't even honor our agreement). Can you blame me for doubting his townieness?
Of course i do not blame you. ^^ That's why i said some people work well with some people and others don't. I hope i am able to figure out what i do wrong with Clarity because i think he is one of the best players around and i hate when i can't work with him fully. I tend to work fine with you when we are both town (see NWM). In this game you had some weird things you said (for example i thought you would understand my logic on D4 about the town roleblocker thing, because there was no flaws in my logic, whether or not i am right). Also the "people are town because of PM's" would have frustrated me as much if i was town as it did now. There is no reason to have a town circle if you are not going anywhere with it and all the people do not stick together in thread. You were the only peron in the town circle who expressed thoughts and everyone else stayed pretty much silent. Clarity had differing opinions on some things (mainly Vivax/SnB) so it was quite easy to call you guys out for it.
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On August 20 2013 17:49 johnnywup wrote:You got Risen to shoot me? I had a pretty strong townread on Risen the last couple days. I dunno what he was like in PMs though Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:48 Xatalos wrote:On August 20 2013 17:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem with the town was that people had (correctly) townreads on each other "because of PM's" and then many people did not do anything in thread (Onegu is a good example of this). It was easy to call people out for their thread posts and you can't really blame me for not knowing what you have PM'd with them. That's why people should not hide in PM-land. Onegu just felt so sincerely townish especially in PMs and also in thread to a lesser extent. Gut feeling, I guess? And I really facepalmed hard when he was lynched.... I facepalmed hard when he was lynched too but since it was 2-2 with him getting 2 first I was scared to say anything because I didn't want someone to randomly switch to me :x
Although if you were lynched, it wasn't going to be endgame yet...? Not sure. Yeah, I pushed for you to be shot. Lurkers are my bane. I played SC2 Mafia for a long time before joining TL Mafia... In SC2 Mafia it was standard for scum to say nothing or at most talk very sparingly, while townies often spammed. Here it's more like... Townies are either very active or lurking. And scum are semi-active or semi-lurking, mostly semi-lurking the later the game goes on. But I always misfocus on the most inactive lurkers :/
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No way Xata didn't do anything wrong in PMs with me lol. I was like a rabid dog d2/d3.
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On August 20 2013 17:57 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:49 johnnywup wrote:You got Risen to shoot me? I had a pretty strong townread on Risen the last couple days. I dunno what he was like in PMs though On August 20 2013 17:48 Xatalos wrote:On August 20 2013 17:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem with the town was that people had (correctly) townreads on each other "because of PM's" and then many people did not do anything in thread (Onegu is a good example of this). It was easy to call people out for their thread posts and you can't really blame me for not knowing what you have PM'd with them. That's why people should not hide in PM-land. Onegu just felt so sincerely townish especially in PMs and also in thread to a lesser extent. Gut feeling, I guess? And I really facepalmed hard when he was lynched.... I facepalmed hard when he was lynched too but since it was 2-2 with him getting 2 first I was scared to say anything because I didn't want someone to randomly switch to me :x Although if you were lynched, it wasn't going to be endgame yet...? Not sure. Yeah, I pushed for you to be shot. Lurkers are my bane. I played SC2 Mafia for a long time before joining TL Mafia... In SC2 Mafia it was standard for scum to say nothing or at most talk very sparingly, while townies often spammed. Here it's more like... Townies are either very active or lurking. And scum are semi-active or semi-lurking, mostly semi-lurking the later the game goes on. But I always misfocus on the most inactive lurkers :/
ahhh yes....sc2 mafia... memories hah. It would still be endgame most likely. they'd just kill onegu instead of me tonight, unless i'm mistaken. I forgive you, just never suspect me again k? <3 I thought I was pretty obviously town towards the end despite being inactive :\ oh well.
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On August 20 2013 17:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:44 Xatalos wrote:
Lol, I dunno why you had difficulties with Clarity. He was one of the only players in the game who I could communicate fluently with. But Risen... I still have nightmares. Maybe it's because it felt like he was living in his own world or something. After he decided something, it was the only truth and nothing else mattered. No matter how stupid it was. Townie decisiveness? Scummy intentional confirmation bias? Hard to say for sure. The final nail in the coffin was when he started to accuse me with something out of thin air. And then... No apology. Nothing. Just total silence. I lost my interest to cooperate with him after that, and finally I managed to get him to shoot johnnywup (and be didn't even honor our agreement). Can you blame me for doubting his townieness? Of course i do not blame you. ^^ That's why i said some people work well with some people and others don't. I hope i am able to figure out what i do wrong with Clarity because i think he is one of the best players around and i hate when i can't work with him fully. I tend to work fine with you when we are both town (see NWM). In this game you had some weird things you said (for example i thought you would understand my logic on D4 about the town roleblocker thing, because there was no flaws in my logic, whether or not i am right). Also the "people are town because of PM's" would have frustrated me as much if i was town as it did now. There is no reason to have a town circle if you are not going anywhere with it and all the people do not stick together in thread. You were the only peron in the town circle who expressed thoughts and everyone else stayed pretty much silent. Clarity had differing opinions on some things (mainly Vivax/SnB) so it was quite easy to call you guys out for it.
Well, I could have accepted it as a "bonus" argument. But...
1) It was pretty weak and WIFOMy in itself (you expected someone to bluehunt actively and base their scumreads on bluereads...)
2) Only scum really focus on bluehunting (if you're a good bluehunter and town, you can accidentally hint someone's role to scum)
3) Bluehunting is only truly useful for scum and the time is much better spent on scumhunting as town
Can you understand? It's not like bluehunting is totally bad as town, but it was such a main focus for you that it started to bother me (WIFOM + bluehunting + otherwise weak scumhunting = scum).
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Also the setup would be better if town actually did anything.
But nobody did.
I was like the only one to even scumhunt n0, l0l
but at least I have conclusively proven that dandel >>>>>>>> solstice, that's the only important thing.
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On August 20 2013 18:02 Risen wrote:
No way Xata didn't do anything wrong in PMs with me lol. I was like a rabid dog d2/d3.
Haha... Well, sorry for insulting you on many occasions. I got so involved in this game that my emotions took over too much with you. Also at least you were right about rayn in your scumreads
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EPT
