EPTCatch 22 Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Someone ask me a really hard question, I need to gain some feel into the game. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:12 marvellosity wrote: You can have 2, can't make promises about their difficulty. 1) What do you make of coag's unrelenting campaign to get me lynched? 2) What do you make of Corazon deciding Oats is definitely scum ("it's clear to me") and then disappearing to pop up with a cajoling post for Ange, and not pushing that read on the rest of the thread? 1) Alignment neutral - he could easily be making it as either town or scum. 2) It's like, 1 post, so doesn't mean much. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:23 Ange777 wrote: @Cora: I would not call you scum yet but marv is right. You haven't really touched any subject besides Oats. How do you feel about goodkarma and ShiaoPi? I don't think marv said that, I don't think that it's quite true, and I don't see how it's scummy if it was. Agree / disagree? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:30 marvellosity wrote: Damn slOosh, I was hoping for something wordier. Try this one on then: 3) Do yamato and hapa's interactions today look natural, like two townies interacting? Or how do you view it? I'll try to answer it, but could you first clarify either a string of posts / pages for me to refer to, or perhaps the dialogue that you found strange / scummy / (? I'm not sure). I don't really look at interactions unless we get some flips that point me that way. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:38 Hapahauli wrote: @ slOosh I'm more interested in the content you decide to produce yourself (namely scumhunting) than anything else. Are you all caught up? More or less. The general things that caught my eye were ObviousOne's entry and ShiaoPi's entry. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:42 marvellosity wrote: Bottom of page 24 through page 26. And don't tell me what you usually do when you specifically asked for tricky questions to get your mind in the game, dearest :p I wasn't making a judgement on their exchange, was just looking to see how you felt about it and why. Apologies ^.^ What I took out of it was that yamato backed off, so he must have some degree of town read + respect for you (marv) and Hapa. He (yamato) said he will put him (ShiaoPi) on his watch list, which is great because it means more stuff from ShiaoPi and yamato held to higher degree of contribution. Nothing worrisome yet for me. I like this ObviousOne direction. Let's hammer out some more discussion / focus on him. Here's what caught my eye On June 21 2013 14:13 ObviousOne wrote: I'm getting town vibes from Oats. What you said is mostly correct, however. He is a good policy lynch if it comes down to one. He mucks up the thread with his random interjections. His tunnels can be beyond paranoid. I don't see a reason to think he's mafia. Coag, what do you think about Oats and my thoughts regarding him? Are you going to hit-and-run style post all game? He asks Coag (of all people), about his thoughts on Oats (a town read). If he wanted thoughts on Oats, there were people already talking about it. If he wanted thoughts from Coag, I think there could have been better questions. Do you think this is strange / different / scummy? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 22 2013 07:49 Hapahauli wrote: @ sloOsh Can you give me a fuller opinion on Shiao (besides his entry of course)? Umm ... his other posts look better. I like that he is posting on goodkarma, which is "unique" (opposed to going with the flow non contributary post scum sometimes make). I'll wait on reading goodkarma's posts and their interaction before I can give you a better judgement call than that. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
 I enjoyed this pleasant exchange marv. I hope we can continue it tomorrow morning. I dearly hope you are not blindsiding me. I've decided to latch onto you, and deciding that whatever you are looking at is worth looking into, since I need some way to adapt to a higher post game. Affectionately, dearest slOosh | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
I don't like goodkarma because he does nothing to get his ShiaoPi push across. He comes to conclusion that ShiaoPi is scum with the case and whatnot, pops in 17 hours later to say "ShiaoPi hasn't done anything I'm comfortable with my vote", and then On June 22 2013 21:29 goodkarma wrote: I don't see why you'd tell us this, and then sit on said writeup... We have 10 1/2 hours before lynch, and it seems we're nowhere close to coming to some kind of consolidation. If you have some kind of damning super-convincing case on Hapa/Yamato, why not get it out in the open now? Berates rayn for not being forthright, expressing concern of consolidation but has done very little himself in convincing others that ShiaoPi is scum and should put votes on him. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 21 2013 18:07 DarthPunk wrote: Yeah pretty much the same. Like in carnival cruise mafia I was sure he was scum in the game and in the obs qt for days. Like to me he always seems super scummy. He could just be bad and be wanting to policy lynch his town read, and he could be scum being wishy washy as fuck. if it was anyone other than obvious, I would want to lynch them for being willing to lynch their major town read. On June 21 2013 18:15 DarthPunk wrote: Because I need help figuring him out. I would think from your response that that would be obvious. He professes having problems reading OO. I'm double checking to see what gives him the bolster of confidence. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 06:43 marvellosity wrote: I just don't get why a mafia DP would decline repeatedly to comment on the Hapa case. It doesn't make sense to me. Marv could I get a follow up on this one? Why wouldn't town DP just say from the getgo On June 23 2013 01:35 DarthPunk wrote: You know what I think about your case? I think it was bad. I think it took you a long time to say not much about why hapa is scum and CERTAINLY nothing convincing enough to make me want to lynch hapa day one. Like basically you are saying hapa didn't respond to a question and was vague about scum reads. Fine. That is not enough to lynch anyone. If your case had blown me away then I would be far more willing to (IMO) waste time talking about a hapa lynch over an obvious lynch. But it didn't so I wasn't. instead of refusing to do it? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 07:04 marvellosity wrote: there's a difference between being comfortable with pressure and bringing massive, unnecessary pressure on to yourself, don't you think? I think you are overemphasizing the 3 votes a bit - you saw that they were quickly removed as they were put on. You said yourself it doesn't make sense for town DP to do that either. So I don't understand how you are using something alignment null to say DP is leaning town. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 07:06 Ange777 wrote: @Sloosh: Earlier you were suspicious of Obvious' entry post. I asked you what exactly made you suspicious but never saw a reply for that one. On June 22 2013 07:52 slOosh wrote: I like this ObviousOne direction. Let's hammer out some more discussion / focus on him. Here's what caught my eye He asks Coag (of all people), about his thoughts on Oats (a town read). If he wanted thoughts on Oats, there were people already talking about it. If he wanted thoughts from Coag, I think there could have been better questions. Do you think this is strange / different / scummy? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Could I ask for your general feel of ShiaoPi? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote: DarthPunk | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 07:28 Adam4167 wrote: Alright i'm here. Its 7am and so cold my teeth are chattering. Understanding we're short on time here, who should I filter dive QUICKLY. DP and GK are the flavors of the month. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 07:30 Hapahauli wrote: Depends on how DP flips I suppose. I gander I'd look pretty terrible if he flipped red :3 Huh? Why would you look bad? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Could you reiterate your hesitations on lynching DP / larger sureness on lynching GK? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Obviously the pool of players we should look into tomorrow is the non DarthPunk voters, since it was an extremely close lynch (which includes goodkarma). It is also very foolish to say we should auto lynch goodkarma - to say that is to say that we split 10 votes between 2 mafia, which is possible, but quite unlikely, and to say this without pause is disconcerting. cora, I don't think you should claim. (** I want to talk about this post game please remind me about this post then **) goodkarma, you have some extra work ahead of you. Don't worry so much about defending yourself as finding suspects amongst your wagon, ok? If we have prot type roles, please prot Ange. She is too cool for school. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Marv's point about cora is pertinent here. Cora thought DP was town, but didn't (or couldn't) make an effort to move the lynch onto goodkarma. If anything that is some town points. Cora you don't look as bad (at least to me) as you may think. Let's not waste this night. I want discussion about tomorrow's lynch to happen tonight before the NKs. I forsaw Oats' mislynch in Roulette but didn't voice it, so this time I'll go on record and say that my #1 preference for tomorrow isn't goodkarma or cora. Reasoning / backup will follow later when I have more time (but if I can't, put this in your back pocket as consideration). | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Seriously guys, don't let emotions derail proper thinking. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Cora, you really need to reread the thread if you are even considering Ange. Actions speak louder than behavior, and her actions helped secure a scum lynch, much more than other players who may look town. @Ange, I guess you and marv hashed it out but my point was that to say that cora is scum for not pushing GK over DP makes little sense, because scum life is more important than town-perception. "If anything" means that I would see that piece of information as more a town tell than scum tell. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 24 2013 00:51 cDgCorazon wrote: Yeah, I understand. However, instead of asking me questions, she just calls me scum for what I did. Townies would ask me questions and try to figure out my thought process (like some did), but scum would just try to jump to conclusions and get me lynched. I'm not say Ange is 100% scum and that we should try to lynch her. I'm not even saying Ange looks very scummy and we should thing about lynching her. I'm just saying that it makes me a bit suspicious. I'm not seeing this so much. I think she is trying to figure out marv's thinking process and you just are the topic of discussion. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:11 Hapahauli wrote: I don't think DP is a good lynch for today. There are aspects of his play I don't like, however I feel that the reasons people have been suspicious of him for (myself included) are fairly inexact and within the realm of town-DP. He is a very null read for me, but that doesn't justify lynching him right now. One of the main arguments seems to be that there's a lack of engagement on his part than their normal town persona, but that could be said about half the players in this game right now (and obv not all of them can be scum). I like ObviousOne's play in the last few pages. It's not aesthetically pleasing, but it seems genuine and town-motivated. Sylencia/Adam also get the replacement-pass for today. I think this is a pretty messy post. What I see is a hesitation / aversion to lynching DP, but pretty vague justifications. On June 23 2013 04:16 Hapahauli wrote: It requires far too many assumptions. Firstly, it's a secret vote, so the pool of candidates isn't necessarily comprised of only the people suspicious of you in the thread. Secondly, I don't like assuming that it's a mafia ability. At the very least, I'm not making my decision based on that assumption. On June 23 2013 05:08 Hapahauli wrote: Anyway, I keep reading through DP's filter looking for anything lynchable and I can't find anything. Even the "lack of engagement" is explainable by the fact that he's literally always busy on Saturdays in every one of his TL games ever. I still don't think DP is a good lynch. I think it's more than possible that the secret vote (which is presumably sent by PM) could have been sent by one of the lurkers, and I want to lynch into one of them. SloOsh or Ange I think. Maybe a YOLO SWAG lynch on Adam cause he hasn't shown up (but no not really). Again, taking a generous view of DP, and another shoddy reason for it. Earlier he said he doesn't like assuming it's a mafia ability. Yet he cites the secret vote as a reason to lynch into the lurkers. On June 23 2013 07:05 Hapahauli wrote: ##Vote GoodKarma I can excuse DP's behavior on the grounds that he's generally busy on weekends. I don't like his play, but I feel it could come from a town DP. I can't really excuse GK's behavior so far. He's made two bad cases (Oats and Shaio), and isn't pushing either one of them. Compared to Les Mis (where he was actively seeking to consolidate his vote), he just plopped his vote on Shaio and is content to let it rot there. I think Ange pointed it out prior, but he is excusing DP but not GK. Excusing the now flipped scum DP over GK. So what I see is a general aversion to the DP lynch, and some shoddy justifications for fighting it. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Particularly people like goodkarma, ShiaoPi, cora and Adam, this new stuff a good place to make contributions. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 24 2013 01:38 marvellosity wrote: There's not a great deal to say about it. I agree, objectively it doesn't look great. In an extremely similar fashion to how my actions around the lynch don't look great either. I can fully empathise with his stance. This 'objectively' not looking great stuff is, for me, easily trumped by the meta read and feels I have on Hapa, and his extremely clear interest in the game and in constructive dialogue with other players. Further I'd note that at least a couple of your quotes deal with him saying that assuming DP was the secret voter was stupid, and he was right, DP wasn't the secret voter. I'm not sure what you're trying to make of that. Cool, then I think the 57~60 interaction is a good place where we can discuss more behavior. And I think my quote is fine. The part I bolded says "Secondly, I don't like assuming that it's a mafia ability." It has nothing to do with DP, but the fact that he says this about the secret vote but later uses it as a reason for voting into lurkers. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 24 2013 01:41 marvellosity wrote: I also rather think you have some causality mixed up, or at least I read the post differently. You said he was using the secret vote to lynch into the lurkers, I understood it that he wanted to lynch into the lurkers anyway, and he was stating that there was a decent chance the secret vote came from them. Perhaps the order was flipped, but it should stand as a point against, not for, voting lurkers, based on his previous post no? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
pg 57~60 when you can please! | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
So, I'm buying into the possibility that GK is scum, or rather, that wagons could have been split between 2 scum because pg38 ~ 42ish show rayn making a very good effort in trying to diffuse the DP wagon and start anything else possible (mainly yamato / OO / me). He bounced out at pg 42, and GK wagon built up steam starting around 48. The end. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
I haven't actually read GK / Shiao's newer posts yet, I just saw the flip and reread that stuff. I'll be back in ~6ish hours to chat (but y'all know how flaky I can be, so don't hold your bowels ^^) | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
3) Drug their food with a poison that only kills fake C.I.D. Investigators and that bypasses any form of protection. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 00:18 Oatsmaster wrote: sloosh thoughts on Adam and actual analysis of GK's behavior? Adam looked decent considering the rayn interaction. Rereading some of GK's posts right now | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 00:20 goodkarma wrote: Some food for thought too: I'm the jailkeeper. I jailed Yamato last night. May not be the optimal time, but whatevs you guys figure out what the fuck it means that Yamato died the way he did even with my action on him. I'm out for now. cya. Why did you target yamato? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Adam looks fine because his thinking process is solid and, I believe, hard to manufacture. Why? Because he had rayn as a decent town read and the logical steps he took in making sense of the D1 wagons are the steps I would have taken. The problems and issues that he encountered are the ones I would expect myself (or any critical thinking town player) to go through. I actually had rayn as town because I mistook his aggressive questioning as critical thinking, when in fact it was trying to undercut and push mislynches. So it's not unreasonable for Adam to make the same call on him. All in all, Adam is town because he thinks like me. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
E.g. you can't stop the mafia from shooting the bullet but you can protect the people it's aimed at. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
I'm always iffy around lynching emotional players (since that stuff is harder to read for me, ask VE anytime). I guess the biggest thing for me is that GK's role stuff. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that people with power roles to read them, read the OP again maybe and double check that stuff on their own. The fact that he says On June 25 2013 00:20 goodkarma wrote: Some food for thought too: I'm the jailkeeper. I jailed Yamato last night. May not be the optimal time, but whatevs you guys figure out what the fuck it means that Yamato died the way he did even with my action on him. I'm out for now. cya. means he isn't doing basic reading anymore. Earlier on in the day he was posting (before the I want to quit) stuff, and yet he spent no time whatsoever trying to figure out why his role didn't work. ... yea maybe we are thinking about this too hard. ##Vote: goodkarma | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Unvote: goodkarma | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 24 2013 18:56 Adam4167 wrote: Going by vote analysis alone, it would make sense that GK is also scum, as Rayn let his vote waste on OO rather than swing it over to GK after I threw mine on to get that wagon over the line and save DP. Granted, its entirely possible Rayn was AFK for the lynch. Like this. This makes no sense to me. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:26 Hapahauli wrote: Given that he was repeatedly stating his suspicions on me throughout D1/N1, I assume he probably would push for it to some degree. He was a nuker, so perhaps he wanted to get enough suspicion on me in order to drop a nuke on me and semi-justify it. I really can only speculate about it though. Then again, it's not like you'll get an objective answer out of me on this subject >> No, that's what I wanted, because I feel like the recipient of it has a much better "feel" for it. I ask this because I'm reading rayn's filter and trying to discern his attack pattern. It is true that he fingered out Adam as suspect, but I don't know if it was setting up stuff for a mislynch or just good distancing. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:30 cDgCorazon wrote: Well I don't want to be called a dick for not believing him, but his play does not back up his town claim. I hate to say it, but no one's claimed the RB on me and he claimed RB but with no way to verify, so what am I supposed to believe? I could see a scum GK roleblocking me just in case I was an investigative/vigilante type role (because we had no clue about the set-up before Yamato/Marv's flip) because I was starting to get really tired of his illogical pushes and I was starting to call him scum. There is a possibility that he is town JK, and there is a scum RB who is keeping their mouth shut. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:30 Adam4167 wrote: It was a hypothetical look at how the end of day 1 played out. If GK were town, wouldn't Rayn have tried to save his scum teammate by voting GK off? Now if two scum were being pushed, Rayn would be better off saying nothing and just letting the lynch play out. The caveat is that the lynch seems to be in the middle of the night for him, so its entirely possible that he was asleep when this all played out and that is the reason he never moved his vote. Going by GK's current posting, hes looking town, so this is all moot. By that logic, if GK were scum, wouldn't Rayn have lynched the less experienced teammate, gain crazy town cred for hammering, and opening up a better pool of potential mislynches in the DP wagon than the GK wagon? It's not all moot because we need to figure this one out and it helps us if we can better determine your alignment. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: You're "pushing" them but it's so much more passive than your pushes in past games against other players. Like this: Why aren't you voting the guy? You clearly think he's scum above all your other reads. Yet it sounds like you're waiting for the approval of others of your case before you do anything. I'd argue the opposite. He has been trying to draw attention to it for a long time, but has been ignored / sidelined / whatnot. What is "do anything"? Putting the vote on him? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Sloosh, why did you instantly unvote gk? Why do you feel its more likely to come from town gk and not scum gk? How sure are you? Unvote because I want more discussion. Still quite unsure b/c I suck with emotions (if you remember VE and Nomination). | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
So he is scum because he didn't stick his vote early on? You need to walk me through this, and if you want to use meta I need to see some quotes instead of references. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 25 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my mind hapa, I currently think that town would not have martyred in the best way to not get himself lynched. Like all the other people selfvoting havent been so thought through. Could you rephrase this sentence please Oats? I don't understand. Right now I'm still finding myself siding with Oats over Adam. Oats is right in that the things that Adam are bringing up aren't that substantive. The only thing against Oats is this GK thing, but I can guess a town motivation which would fit with Oats, so just waiting for him to say it I guess. In anycase I have to bounce for now. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Gk's last post is more than a "i quit mafia" post. There's actual content in it. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote: ShiaoPi | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 21 2013 17:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: This was about ShiaoPi. I don't agree with this Oats. In LXI ShiaoPi was definitely not helpful at any time and was caught with Clarity on N1. Only think that saved him from being lynched quicker was his weird "i'm lost" behaviour on D3. Where do you base this feel of yours Oats? I dunno man. I dunno. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 27 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: yup :/ bleh, Im inclined to believe hapa's town read on you for the moment adam. On June 26 2013 11:44 Hapahauli wrote: sloOsh not only hammered DP, but has came across as really townie through his scum-hunting efforts ObviousOne was not only targeted by DP and Rayn, but voted DP himself. And nothing about that wagon looked like a bus. Not to mention that OO has come across as fairly townie (which is why he wasn't lynched D1 in the first place) So who's left - you, GK, and Adam. And tbh, I just want to lynch into all 3 of you consecutively and win. On June 26 2013 12:49 Hapahauli wrote: Even sloOsh - he hammered DP and has shown many times more the engagement in scumhunting and posting than I've ever seen him do as scum. On June 27 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: So today its sloosh and OO. The person with the least contribution will get lynched today. Jumping around with no consistency, dropping all prior scumreads to pick up new ones with no reasoning, basically going with anyone who might be lynched. ##Vote: Oatsmaster Adam if you have specific questions, feel free to pick at my brain. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 27 2013 13:03 Oatsmaster wrote: So do i wanna lynch someone who has been posting regularly, and is active, over someone whos only redeeming factor is the hammer on DP. I dont think so at this point. You have been smart enough to figure out my alignment in other games, why are you taking things that arent alignment indicative and saying that they are scummy? I could say the same thing of you. You cite inactivity as a reason why you want to lynch me, even though we just played a game where I had a 1 page (1 page!) filter day 1. It's hard to figure out your alignment because you are trying to direct us into lynching people who were on the DP wagon which is absolute nonsense. I'm trying to figure stuff out and it's possible I might be grasping at straws, because that's honestly what I'm doing. Everyone looks town. I'm trying to find tiebreakers. If it means I target your nonsense, then that's that. On June 27 2013 13:30 Adam4167 wrote: Sloosh, last time you spoke of the issue (me vs Oats), you were siding with Oats due to 'my lack of anything substantive'. Did the conversation last night between me, oats and Hapa change your opinion on any of us? I was siding with him because I thought the points brought up against him were weak. The conversation shows that you are comfortable posting (which is something you tend to struggle as scum I guess?), which gives a stronger town read on you. I know nothing of Oats' scumplay, but I'm taking your word on the "relaxedness" of your dialogues. Which swings things back to GK. Maybe that is the correct lynch, and we are trying to pick at ourselves when we are all town. In either case I totally agree with Oats that he isn't someone who I want at LYLO. ##Unvote: Oats ##Vote: goodkarma | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
+ pg 55 ~ 63 Only thing going for Oats is his ability to post "naturally". ##Unvote: goodkarma ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 28 2013 01:42 ObviousOne wrote: D1 Oats <---> Cora + Show Spoiler + On June 21 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: why dont you change your playstyle so you dont get lynched? Oats, I'm sure I've had trouble being able to tell in past circumstances, but when you're antagonizing Cora a little bit here, is it in a joking manner? I think that's been a theme with you this game as well, joking around? Was that a motive to taking some jabs at Cora's playstyle? (It's just a touch of hypocrisy [jokes! but not really, but really] I don't see anything here to point towards reasons for blocking Cora unless Oats thought Cora was a vig and going to shoot him. Cora blueclaimed, and we kinda discussed it, so not too hard to think whoever scum was to think "well I don't have anyone else in mind". | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
You were advocating to lynch between OO and me. Two critical components of the highly contested DP wagon. How does this make sense? Why can't a townie do the basic math? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Here's how it plays out in my mind. Game is not over. There is an anti-town element in play, most likely 1 scum member. So someone has to be scum. Here's what I have to swallow to admit that person is scum. Coag: Voted DP, and shot rayn. OO: Was main pusher for the DP lynch, was main choice of target by DP. Cora: Is a scum doublevoter who rb'ed himself with a co-host confirmation Oats: Is not considering any of the things I am at this point of the game. Also very natural / whatever. Adam: Sounds reasonable and has overcome scared play. GK: pulled the biggest jerk move ever and emotions etc. Logically speaking, that you would disregard how D1 went is a big outrage. You are saying that whoever it is, chose to vote godfather experienced scum DP when marv and Hapa gave many many outs to voting GK instead. Emotionally speaking, that GK would do what he did as scum is a big outrage. It's unsportsmanlike (in my eyes) to the highest degree. I thought about this more, (heck I looked up all his other games for meta help, but I guess that falls under SFA) On June 16 2013 11:02 goodkarma wrote: Well, anywho, I figured I'd outline some of my thoughts on this game. "Replacement" Shenannies I definitely did make a point of "milking" my status as replacement. I bet that Marv comes in here and says that's unsportsmanlike, but it was definitely the right move as far as I was concerned. I replaced in at night, and immediately I had identified Hapa as the only real threat to getting me lynched early. BH I felt would be sore from misreading me last game. And everyone else I felt wouldn't be taking the lead in determining who should be lynched, especially with Axle and Shao looking so "townie." As such, I knew that when Hapa had been removed I'd be in a spot of relative safety. Is it easier to accept a logical outrage rather than an emotional one? For me, yes. .... Pshh | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish. Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it. What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
It's just that there has been, in my recollection, no honest, logical thought out process detailing why it might be the case. The bastion of logic holds strong, and nothing apart from conspiracy theories have been aimed at it. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
"Could there be scum doublevoter given 2 3rd party elements" was a question I've personally considered (and shut down) but was never brought up in thread. There's honest ways of opening up such avenues of discussion. All I've seen are "player X hasn't posted in such and such a time". | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Do you really think I'm so lazy, so apathetic that I'm on autopilot? That these voteshifts of mine are just jokes to give whomever false hope? Engage me. Give me something to work with. I know it exists because I've played with it myself in my head, I just haven't heard it from anyone else here (or I missed it, or it's from Oats whom I have natural distrust with). | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
p 39~40 show rayn trying to push yamato or OO. yamato helped out with the lynch (3rd party, no reason why he wouldn't be playing roughly town) Hapa comes in pg 42 and opposes DP lynch. Hapa is a vocal town player with strong thread presence. marv comes in a bit later, stuff happens. Discussion moves away from DP. OO comes back in pg 47 and pushes DP more. Ange and I hop in around here. pg 48 marv votes GK. Hapa joins next page. They push for GK. They (marv mostly) push for it. OO at this point has a reasonable out: On June 23 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote: We can be reasonably sure that DP won't fuck off if he doesn't die today. Can we say the same about GK? And yet he keeps his vote on. Kills DP over GK, which we discussed isn't something we can see scum doing. The only place that it becomes even remotely feasible is if GK was also scum. So the order should be GK first, then OO if GK flips scum and game isn't over. I don't think there are 4 scum. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Unvote: Oatsmaster ##Vote: goodkarma | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
But I don't know if cora wants to listen to me (or anyone) anymore due to the shiaopi switch last cycle. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 28 2013 15:34 Adam4167 wrote: Sloosh, this is why I want more out of everybody, even the so-called confirmed. Something was told to the mafia that the rest of us aren't getting told. If there was some kind of traitor that joined the scum team on D2, then a single vote on DP counts for nothing. We're in a closed setup, anything is possible. Sure, but not everything is reasonable. My guess is that mafia might have maybe a bit more information about the setup (e.g. Carnival gave scum knowledge of existence of cop & vig). Or something about KP formula. Traitor is town aligned until recruited. For balance reasons I don't buy a traitor, since it means 2 man scum team, which is horribly unfavored for scum. Also, it means rayn successfully recruited someone out of 12 players N1, since I don't think traitor would have guessed rayn. Also it means that either scum have a factional RB or traitor had RB. We can discuss this more at night if the game hasn't ended. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Because that's nonsense and I haven't seen you actually address it head on. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 29 2013 12:00 Adam4167 wrote: Your reads have to be fluid and change in light of what is going on! Deciding reads on D1 and then lynching into them regardless of any new developments in the thread is just stubborn and shortsighted. It relies entirely on your early game being so exceptional that you can bust the entire scum team from a single flip. I can count the number of times I've seen that happen on one hand and I've been here a damn long time! We've done this exact dance before in Duel, except this time its Oats instead of Sylencia. Like this is very hypocritical. What is the most recent thing to happen in thread? GK flipped town. Ok, so we know that the very close D1 DP-GK lynch was between scum and town. Who is the first person that Adam goes after? OO, who was one of the main components of DP. Oats I need your reviewed read of Adam, or whoever you want to lynch tomorrow. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 30 2013 00:28 Adam4167 wrote: How is that hypocritical. My reads have changed and that evolution process is present in my filter. With the information that GK was town, and Oats is someone I now have a solid meta read on, I turn and look at everyone else in the game. Because clearly things are not as simple as they seem. OO cites my lack of confidence in scum reads as a reason why i'm scum. Here's a better explanation: I'm town and all the people I was looking at were town! we've flipped 2/3 of them and they've both been damn town. GEE, no wonder I wasn't confident about finding scum in there. What is your aversion to me pressing OO? If i'm wrong then his towniness will shine through and ill move along. Of course, and I guess that ShiaoPi and GK failed that test because they weren't actually town - nonsense. Tell me where and why I'm wrong in this post: On June 28 2013 13:32 slOosh wrote: OO was one of DP's main lynches of choice D1. Both DP and rayn were willing to park their votes there (and they eventually did). OO was also the main pusher of the DP wagon. Refer to p 38. p 39~40 show rayn trying to push yamato or OO. yamato helped out with the lynch (3rd party, no reason why he wouldn't be playing roughly town) Hapa comes in pg 42 and opposes DP lynch. Hapa is a vocal town player with strong thread presence. marv comes in a bit later, stuff happens. Discussion moves away from DP. OO comes back in pg 47 and pushes DP more. Ange and I hop in around here. pg 48 marv votes GK. Hapa joins next page. They push for GK. They (marv mostly) push for it. OO at this point has a reasonable out: And yet he keeps his vote on. Kills DP over GK, which we discussed isn't something we can see scum doing. The only place that it becomes even remotely feasible is if GK was also scum. So the order should be GK first, then OO if GK flips scum and game isn't over. I don't think there are 4 scum. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote: Adam4167 | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 30 2013 13:47 Adam4167 wrote: Oats, I still have no interest in lynching you. The fact that you're paranoid that I'm going to come after you is disappointing, but not unexpected. If you guys think that lynching the person that has gone against thread sentiment since the moment he got into the game is a good idea, then you're either scum or stupid. You can check your role PM to find out which. While everyone else was content sitting back doing absolutely nothing, I was still working to solve this game. I can only conclude that there is some kind of 2nd family or 3rd party at work here to explain why OO and DP went at each other so hard, yet OO still acts scummy as fuck. ##Vote: ObviousOne Whatever, I am tired of talking to stupid. See yall in the post game. Show me | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 26 2013 11:58 Adam4167 wrote: From a setup perspective, SK is extremely unlikely, as is two families of two. There just wouldn't be enough townies in the game with whats already been flipped. I think we keep it simple here and work with 1 scum remaining. Traitor is also a possibility as was earlier proposed. On June 26 2013 12:43 Adam4167 wrote: Well the obvious one to take off the table is OO, DP and Rayn both seemingly went to bed with their votes firmly parked on OO. I don't think they bussed their roleblocker on D1. Still nada on this. If you've been reading me, this is the thing you should be focusing on, not glossing over. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Probably not lylo. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
His dilemma was: + Oats seems strongly town due to behavior / meta + OO, me and Coag were all on a D1 scum lynch His proposed explanations were: + some sort of traitor role + some sort of dual mafia families I was adverse to these because: + they seemed to me just speculations, not fleshed out, something a scum would do + a traitor means scum start with 2 players. Seems heavily unbalanced for scum, especially given the 3rd parties who would weigh votes in town's favor + dual mafia families makes little sense with the consistent 1KP per night. A possible explanation of my inquiry, as how can OO be scum and do what he did D1: [redacted] The alternative, still much more sensible explanation: + Oats is scum and many were flat out wrong about his alignment (and cora is rolling in his grave). | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Same for Oats. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 02 2013 15:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont know man. CID is the only viable reason that Coag could not be town. Ok so why is sloosh town? His vote on DP. I read his filter surrounding that. Its a bit odd. He doesnt really give reasons in his voting post. He never gives reasons for voting for DP, only what makes him vote DP and not GK. Also his post after the lynch. I dont like this post. There isnt also a follow up to this, he doesnt start pushing anyone, he just has vague bad feelings about Hapa. His reaction to the flip, rubs me the wrong way. Its way too cool for such a close lynch I feel. I gave insufficient reasons for hammering scum over town? The crap is this? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 08:07 HiroPro wrote: Night 1 DarthPunk as Captain Black was lynched! Vote Count yamato77 (2): Secret Vote, Oatsmaster, ShiaoPi (1): goodkarma, goodkarma (5): ShiaoPi, marvellosity, Hapahauli, cDgCorazon, Adam4167 ObviousOne (2): DarthPunk, raynpelikoneet DarthPunk (5): yamato77, ObviousOne, Coagulation, Ange777, slOosh Like, how do you look at this and decide to lynch not Oats??? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On April 12 2013 00:34 DarthPunk wrote: You can't deny that Oats rose to the occasion though and played a really solid scum game. I mean. You were dancing to his tune.  On April 11 2013 21:49 marvellosity wrote: The funny thing about this game is that Oats *did* play much better than he played as mafia before, so he got caught properly day 3 instead of day 1. No one has been able to tell me, how it is possible to reconcile D1. There's three scenarios: + Oats is scum and has played strong scum game + Oats isn't scum and -> OO is scum chose to lead the wagon on his buddy DP, and his buddies DP and rayn both tried to push him -> slOosh is scum and chose to hammer his buddy DP -> Coag is scum and chose to shoot his buddy rayn + Host have made the game unreasonably unbalanced, and there has been a highly coincidental combination of night actions. What's most likely? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Game start: 9-3-2 D1: Town mislynch: 8-3-2 N1: KP and vigi shot and 3rd party exit: 5-3 D2: Town mislynch + day KP: 3-3 Win off 1 mislynch. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
2 member scum team seems highly unlikely (but what do I know about setup ... ) | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
Ok. The [redacted] was something like this: DP and rayn make the pretense of lynching OO, without actually intending to lynch him. Why? On June 21 2013 21:31 marvellosity wrote: I've read OO correctly in the past - as town in Red Team, as mafia in Hydra 1. The counterpoint to this is I most recently read him incorrectly in a game on omgus (not helped by the fact he disappeared for the last 24 hours of day 1) and also he put in a pretty nice performance as replacement scum in Smurf Mafia. In short I no longer feel that confident in "meta"ing him, beyond involvedness/give-a-shitness. Good place to start. OO has still yet to get his scum legs (wings?) nice and stretched out. He plays the scared / lurker type scum. So, scum game plan? ScumQT OO: hey, I'm pretty bad at scum. maybe we can bus me and ride out the cred DP & rayn: yea that sounds like good idea So they do just that. It explains why both DP and rayn were making a good show about how they were on OO. OO does the same. Now what they didn't expect, was super tag team Coag / slOosh / Ange to come in and actually start voting for DP. ScumQT OO: Oh shoot. This was not the plan. And I'm scared to switch 'cause it looks really fishy. DP & rayn: *sleeping* OO: ahh!! what to do?? What to do as people start talking about DP or GK? Not consolidate on your scumread. In fact, drop hints because you desperately want someone to switch, but not yourself because that's too scary. On June 23 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote: We can be reasonably sure that DP won't fuck off if he doesn't die today. Can we say the same about GK? Let me repeat that. He drops his #1 scumread, because he might produce content later. He agrees, but doesn't move his own VOTE OH MY GOSH I"M REALIZING THIS AS I TYPE ##Vote: ObviousOne | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 24 2013 09:20 Coagulation wrote: if the rb is scum than they are clearly not very good/experienced at mafia considering I claimed vigi about 20 times day1/night1 and then caught Rayn and stated I was 100% sure hes confirmed scum because of his scum slip halfway into night1. why they would roleblock anyone but me is beyond astonishing. On June 24 2013 09:25 Adam4167 wrote: They were probably hoping you'd shoot marv. Plus Cora claimed blue also. On July 02 2013 09:25 ObviousOne wrote: Sigh... @sloosh, I'll talk you through my thoughts after I get home tonight, but I'm feeling pretty lost right now. Adam being town means maybe I'm being lenient in some way regarding either you or Oats. I'm not even considering Coag based entirely on his shot; I don't see why he wouldn't just shoot Marv N1 since he'd been pushing for it all day and it would make sense (in a sort of twisted way) to see him do that. It may come back round to Oats. Dat filter.... anyway, a project for when I get home. And the pieces fall into place. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 23 2013 03:49 ObviousOne wrote: DP is a man with an ego Whose reads are withheld you have seen though My greatest desire To lynch him with fire Town vic'try for us, for the people /bow On June 23 2013 07:22 ObviousOne wrote: I'm reading the conversation through GK's filter and it looks like they're both doing the "whateva whateva I do what I want" thing at each other. I wasn't sure if there was some kind of grudge backstory to this. Shiao has been solely focused on GK, and GK has been focused on Oats and Shiao. This just feels really out-there in terms of interaction. The antagonism feels like it's long term, since I don't really see a reason for it to have sprouted up in the thread. I could be wrong, though, and probably am. On June 23 2013 07:40 ObviousOne wrote: It's not really the style that's got me, on its own. It's the way they've been battling at each other for so long, particularly at the expense of other reads. Neither is here to clarify why it is that they're so seemingly hostile towards one another. I read a few pages of Les Mafia, thought not very much TBH, and GK's attitude feels similar to that game when he was under suspicion there so it could be just a baseline GK-thing. Maybe this isn't a 1:1 relationship but that Shiao is just responding in kind. Like I said, I just wanted to know if they had some kind of history so I'll have to hear it from one of them, I guess. I thought maybe you had some extra knowledge but yours sounds about as limited as my own. Some serious waffle followed by On June 23 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote: We can be reasonably sure that DP won't fuck off if he doesn't die today. Can we say the same about GK? Wai? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
OO waffled around and even tried to get people to vote GK (but was too scared to do it himself), even though he had DP as a strong scum read. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
I agree you lead that wagon, it's what I've been saying. Doy. You are just arguing my points. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
We all voted DP. I explain a situation where scum OO has motivation to do so. OO has been playing at strawmen, and keeps dodging the big point. Why hammer DP when it was soooo easy to vote GK? | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 28 2013 12:46 Adam4167 wrote: I mean OO is so out of touch with the thread his fishing up cases from 48 hours ago on someone that I've since ruled almost surely town. I asked for reads on all 3 of us in the apparent 'lynch pool of death' and I got nada. Some waffle about Oats antagonizing Cora on D1. On June 29 2013 12:00 Adam4167 wrote: Back on point: what the fuck is OO doing. Again I call him useless and he doesn't even respond, he comes in, drops his vote on GK and then bails out - completely avoiding contribution. He still hasn't delivered anything resembling a read that I asked him for. His last post of any substance he says that Oats, Sloosh and Me are all the furthest from town on the spectrum, yet we never hear back about why sloosh is not so town anymore, nor does he comment on me. He throws out some random post on Oats and Cora from D1 and then he jumps on a GK vote. So OO, time to step up. You are just plodding along with thread sentiment this game and doing absolutely nothing constructive. Your egregious lack of scum hunting and general effort this game has run its course. Put your apparent confirmed status to work, get in here and make a case on all 3 of those players you consider the furthest from town. On June 30 2013 13:47 Adam4167 wrote: I can only conclude that there is some kind of 2nd family or 3rd party at work here to explain why OO and DP went at each other so hard, yet OO still acts scummy as fuck. ##Vote: ObviousOne Whatever, I am tired of talking to stupid. See yall in the post game. OO has been coasting hard with "semi-confirmed" status since N1, with no interest in actually finding scum until now, which is lylo, which is when scum have to pull off the mislynch themselves. Find me one true scum read in his filter. Show me where he puts effort in getting someone lynched. Quote where he tries to actively figure crap out instead of coasting like a scum who is riding town cred would. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
There's enough in the thread as it is, look at it yourself, and pick whoever you want. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
I think OO would have won straight out by shooting Coag instead of Oats, given that I was tunneling so hard. A large part of why I thought Adam was scum was that there was (from my POV), very little to explain D1 concerning OO bus, and I was pretty paranoid after back to back uncertain mislynches, and I thought that scum in your position (non DP voters) would have to eventually pull 1 mislynch off the DP voter pool to win. So yes, shoot Coag -> I blind tunnel Oats into oblivion, and Oats probably counter vote me. I only started listening to dead Adam once Oats died, which served as the trigger that he wished his death would be. After that it was pretty easy to sift through OO being scum (beside the setup spec which I was doubting till the end). @Cora Agree with what Adam said. It's not scummy to be wrong, or even hard defend scum. In fact, many times town are wrong (e.g. me until the endgame). Claiming to save your hide really should be last resort (and I might try to argue never to claim in that way), because it gives scum ammo (e.g. "this guy is panicing really hard must be scum"), and lets them blue shot / rb better. Better to let your behavior speak for itself. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 05 2013 13:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh right. You shouldve said something about, WHEN I FLIP, KILL OO. yeah, hammer it into my thick skull. Anyway, I didnt play very well. Sorry Oats. I don't think you played poorly, given that I didn't really consider you for a long time ... I think the big thing that threw me off was that you were gunning for me based on activity. Which is strange b/c I had a 1 page filter from Roulette, which is the game you said you finally read me as town in ObsQT. Activity for me means nothing. I've outgrown lurking as scum. If I'm not posting, it's because I'm not at a computer :/ And then the rest was b/c DP and rayn bussing OO was just so farfetched in my mind and I was paranoid to tunnel mode that I was basically lynching the whole pool of non DP voters based off that. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 05 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: I'll never admit to the setup speculation being intentional (for my own benefit) in public. Never happened. ? I was referring to my own setup spec, e.g. traitor / 2 family, which I summarily shut off as not possible. The one scenario I didn't realize until the end, which turned out to be true, was that there was a pretend bus attempt D1 that happened to get out of control. | ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
| ||
| ||
