PTP IV - Demon's Run - Page 10

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
The other (very important) factor...is shame lol
If we lynch kita and he's 3P, you can just say "Oh well, let's move on" and that's it. You could even blame it on kita for being so scummy and playing against town
But if we lynch austin and kita is scum and we lose, then I'll never forgive myself for "falling" for that lol

So in that sense lynching kita is "safer" (regardless of the chances of him being scum or 3P)

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:


This...kind of makes sense. Town sentiment was against austin so scum would have figured out he would be a potential counterlynch to avoid NL on D1. Him or Zepphird.
However, if they planned that with scum kita, wouldn't scum be...like there doing shit? Not a single scum is doing anything after the shot.
You would try to think they would either:
-Try to get the lynch onto Zepphird
-Try to get people to NL

It doesn't make sense to just leave ALL townies in direct control of the counter lynch and not do a single thing (like, not a single scum made a single post until after deadline passed).
The fact not a single scum made a post does make it seem unplanned, and if kita is scum then by definition it can't be unplanned (unless he did it on his own for the lulz).

This gives more points to 3P kita than scum kita.

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
I still can't believe scum geript would just randomly use his day vig on the 3P instead of saving it, or use it on a townie he FoSed earlier or something.
Like...no it doesn't make sense other than a senseless "gain town cred" action.

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:


There's no way to prove this. Scum can feign ignorance of the TARDIS in-thread.
Unless there's a scum action (night kill, etc) regarding the TARDIS that proves that.
If so feel free to provide it.

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
I don't see how this has to do with anything.
It is possible you drained the TARDIS by getting it. It's possible the TARDIS is drained by constant uses (like I stated earlier).
Like...not even you know why it was drained before and I doubt you 100% know why it was drained now.

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:


Hmm....kind of makes sense....
...although not so much.

Well, at that point kita was trying to seem pro-town...at least a little tiny bit.
But you shot of Dandel, and after N2 you went anti-town as hell.
Maybe as scum you passed the TARDIS to a townie YOU WOULD KILL THAT NIGHT so:
-You could get the TARDIS back after that guy died (just like scum got it on D3)
-You could reset the "mafia counter" restriction the TARDIS has by having it pass hands to a townie first
-Gain town cred and keep playing the "I'm survivor" slick, and not just be confirmed scum

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:


Yeah...those are kind of compelling. I'll have to reread them though.

Just a quick question: What is the TL Mafia history on fake chat logs?
I think some scum members at some other PM game faked chat logs between each other. Do you (Xfire+kita) have any idea which game, and how complex, etc it was? I.e if it faked timestamps and all that shit?

If kita was scum trying to pass himself as 3P survivor...and he and geript went through ALL that length to create those fake logs to basically never show them?
(I would assume he AND geript both faked them before geript died, and it wasn't just kita that faked the A FEW HOURS AGO all by himself. The dude there does sound like geript in a way, and it'd be more natural for both of them to "fake" discuss shit and post it as a "chat log")

Like...kita never even said he had those logs before either. He said he chatted with geript...but like once in a forgettable post.
If scum kita's plan was convincing us he was 3P survivor, then he could have shown those logs sooner (once geript was lynched for instance), or he could have tried harder.

Right now it does seem he just had those logs hidden somewhere and just quickly copy+pasted them to make his other post.

It's too much of an elaborate plan that doesn't make much sense otherwise.

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Xfire, can you confirm that if you shoot the guy with the TARDIS, you get the TARDIS yourself? Or is it distributed randomly?
Most importantly, kita, was it told to you anything about that?

You say that once sol claimed The Doctor (or WOS claimed for him anyways), you shot him to see if he had the TARDIS to get it.
But....how would you know if you could get the TARDIS by shooting him YOURSELF? Why couldn't you wait 10 minutes for him to get lynched instead (if the TARDIS just randomly goes to someone else no matter how the guy dies)?

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Another thing that bothers me is kita's behaviour.
He seemed to be working for scum BEFORE geript was revealed as 3P. Like, back in D2 you made those cases on austin and sk8, you seemed "somewhat" pro-town.
But as soon as Dandel died, you played for scum right there. You made no cases, you shitted up the thread, trolled, said "guys im survivor dont lynch me lololo" which seemed like a scum's failed attempt at trolling and appearing like he cares about what people think about him.
At times you seemed like you didn't really care about your survival. Like people would say "okay I'll shoot kita tonight" or "okay we lynch kita tomorrow" or even in D3 when people wanted to lynch you...you didn't seem to give a shit.
If you were survivor, without any knowledge about what scum are doing (and from your POP alone in the game), then you WOULD give a shit

On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Another thing is that (while skimming your log with geript) you two don't really seem to talk about the protection geript apparently had on you (or I missed it), nor any protection from a lynch or whatever that is.
Again, I'd assume that if you were survivor you'd care more about.....surviving. EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHERS thought you were scum (they THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM, and they thought that ever since N2 when you were playing for scum apparently, was that the play for 3P survivor you wanted to make?) and would kill you in a heartbeat with anything you got, weren't you worried about fulfilling your win-con by then?
Like, weren't you worried about town vig shots, or like the freaking lynch of D3?
I don't see you too worried nor try to get info from geript based on that.

On July 02 2013 00:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only mafia + me remain.

On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:
I'm going to respond to kita, for now, in a small post. Then I'd like to hear gonzaw/crossfire on thisHere is the biggest thing I see with kita's post.

The OP does not say third party players are survivors.
It says be alive AND fulfill victory conditions.

Moreover, you can check for yourselves. Third parties can be town and anti-town. If third parties were ALL survivors, then they wouldn't be town/anti-town. They're neutral, they win either way. Because they can be town/anti-town, they ACTIVELY STOP ALLIANCE/CHURCH FACTIONS FROM ACHIEVING THEIR WIN-CONS.

Survivors don't do that. Survivors just win. Town/Mafia never have "Kill mafia/town, and then also kill all the survivors kkthx"

Kita's "all 3P are survivors" story makes NO sense, because 3Ps can be town/anti-town and interefere with alliance/church win-cons.

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Second, and more nebulous:

On June 26 2013 08:01 Zephirdd wrote:
kita is survivor
why would you kill a survivor so soon
Survivor is the town-oriented third party, just like SK is the scum-oriented one.
you don't kill a survivor T_T

On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:
We have no PROOF that you are a survivor. You claim that. But your PLAY does not say survivor.

On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:
On D3, you shot town and worked to save geript. Geript TOLD you in PMs, the PMs you posted, that I was mafia (more or less, by saying to shoot everyone else). You could have shot me, let geript get lynched.

If you were a survivor and we were the last two mafia, congratulations, you win. If you were a survivor and there were three mafia remaining, congratulations, there is now ONE mafia remaining and YOU SHOT A MAFIA. Town isn't killing you at that point, and you're clear to coast for a survivor win.

Mafia was absolutely SCREWED that day. And you bailed us out of it. That's not survivor play. That's knowing that if mafia gets screwed on D3, and it's like BC/Gonzaw/Crossfire/DI vs. one or 0 mafia and they don't win, you're going to get lynched.

Gonzaw, crossfire, put yourself in kita's mindset D3. He could have sided with town, killed mafia. You guys would have kept him alive then. Mafia would be so utterly screwed that we would need to focus on killing town for the rest of the game. He had an easy path as a survivor. Instead, he sided with mafia. The only purpose that serves is to drag the game out, reduce numbers, and make it so it's not a bunch of townies + kita and the townies scratching their heads wondering why they haven't won yet.

On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
So you feel comfortable with him saying all 3Ps are survivors when 3Ps can be town/anti-town?

On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
You feel comfortable with him giving different stories about how many shots he has?

On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
I don't know what he is. I don't know that he's got to be last man standing. But what I KNOW, and what you can see for yourself, and ask yourself, is that the win-cons don't support his "all 3P = survivor" claim. I could post all day with things that he might be, but what I know, and what you should be able to smell, is that his story doesn't add up.

On July 02 2013 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
bee tee dubs, I don't have the TARDIS. It's either winked out of existence when Kurumi died (doesn't transfer again once drained?) or kita has it.

I don't think that matters, and you may not trust me, but...it wouldn't even do anything for me if I had it, so there's no reason to hide that. It wouldn't stop a lynch or help me kill you guys tonight, so...there's no real reason to lie here.

On July 02 2013 03:24 austinmcc wrote:
I didn't worry until NOW about gonzaw being protected, no.

I figured it winked out of existence, or that it being drained of energy meant it couldn't activate.

On July 02 2013 03:24 austinmcc wrote:
Since it started with a town player, that means that it

If they've got the TARDIS, it makes things harder/impossible for me, but if that were the case, then: (1) I don't think they'd be slow-rolling it like this; and (2) they'd lynch you, because I can't kill them tonight and they can lynch me tomorrow.

If they have the TARDIS, then they lynch you, ensure that they don't have a chance to lose, and then lynch me tomorrow. You silly.

On July 02 2013 03:29 gonzaw wrote:
But it is possible maybe, you as scum or SK or whatever knew the TARDIS would be drained after you got it and used it or whatever, so you would pass it to Kurumi and kill him at night (he wouldn't prot himself since TARDIS was deactivated then), and then get the TARDIS again later (either by chance, or by killing the townie that got it, etc etc).

On July 02 2013 03:29 gonzaw wrote:
Speaking of which, right now you don't have the TARDIS (austin has it). Arent' you like confirmed to lose now? The only way you can win is if we lynch austin and you get lucky (33% chance) that you get the TARDIS after he dies.
If not I or Xfire get the TARDIS, all scum are dead so we win, but you don't have the TARDIS so you lose.

On July 02 2013 03:29 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, Xfire, do you think kita can still be scum now?

On July 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote:
Third parties are NOT all survivors like kita says. The OP says that third parties have to survive AND do stuff. Moreover, you can confirm for yourselves, third parties CAN be town or anti-town. Based on that, the alliance and the church may well need to eliminate third parties, or specific third parties, before they can win.

On July 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote:
However, CAN be is the furthest you get with your questions. I checked to see whether third parties are guaranteed to be town/anti-town, rather than just neutral, and I'm not allowed an answer. Again, check for yourselves if you want, and I can understand not answering because either answer there is gamebreaking. You just gotta figure out whether you think things add up.

On July 02 2013 03:10 austinmcc wrote:
I mean, I do. I spent part of last night thinking up dumb claims.

On July 02 2013 04:03 austinmcc wrote:
He doesn't in that convo he posted. Geript, in our QT, said kita had claimed mafia traitor. That's one of the things I'm saying doesn't add up.

Either I'm doctoring QT posts or he is. We both have reason to, but I know that I'm not and come endgame you'll know that I'm not, you can read scum QT (not that it does you any good today).

On July 02 2013 06:01 Crossfire99 wrote:
1. Kita is a survivor. He doesn't care who wins as long as he survives until endgame and secures his victory condition which in this case is feeding on the TARDIS.

On July 02 2013 06:01 Crossfire99 wrote:
2. Kita is a SK. He needs to survive until endgame and secure his victory condition which is eliminate every other player in the game.

On July 02 2013 06:01 Crossfire99 wrote:
3. Kita is mafia or a traitor. He wins with mafia.

On July 02 2013 07:21 gonzaw wrote:
Also kita, you plan voting austin anytime soon? No hurries though, if you don't you'll have a slow painful death at the gallows, nothing serious