EPT/in
Doctor Who Mafia
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Vivax
21978 Posts
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Vivax
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What I don't get is the board's role. How does it influence what happens to the players? Does an angel AND the player behind it simply die if he ends up in the flashlight of a townie? | ||
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In the OP there's no mentioning of the angel's knowledge about other player's movement speed, cause if they don't know it, it might not be the smartest idea to claim it. Do Angels know the players' movement speeds? | ||
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It might not be the best idea to claim our movement speed to the whole thread. Angels will know when a player is possibly dangerous for them by knowing how far he can go to cross their path. | ||
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On May 15 2013 07:24 Blazinghand wrote: Maybe we should all claim our movement patterns JUST before the lynch happens. Mafia won't have time to send in imitation movements between our claim and the day ending. This would probably be the best way for us to identify ourselves on the game board. This is a good idea. Claim choices and speed shortly before the phase ends. People might end up doing the same movements though, but if everyone moves at maximum speed we will be able to sort it out and narrow down the options. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to look for the sides, it might make you less vulnerable, but also more predictable for the angels. On May 15 2013 23:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Not accusing him, his fluff came to me as more eagerness to do something productive than anything else Posting fluff and doing something productive are two different things. He's telling us what to do, but without a plan to do it. I'm kinda reading this as a weak justification to marv's pressure. Do you currently have any reads worth mentioning, in your opinion? | ||
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On May 16 2013 03:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: But wouldn't mkfuba have to actively respond to the PM to participate in the game? I wouldn't say lynch him outright, but I'm a little suspicious. Let's see how the day goes though. My only red leaning read at this point is Vivax, whose filter after game start seems to be weak counterarguments to a fairly solid plan. His last post (the big one) also references the fact that with everyone moving at max speed, it would be easier to discern who is who. After explicitly saying that by learning this, Angels can figure out who is dangerous and vulnerable. I feel as if he is looking for this information for this reason. ##Vote: Vivax This is a scumslip, the host explicitly said that it's possible that the angels know our movement speeds already. You showing this level of security as to immediately call me scum in spite of that fact, is proof that you are either not reading the thread with your due diligence, or scum with the information that angels don't know our movement speed, given your overall play I'm strongly leaning on the latter. I'm expecting your explanation for this, and I want reads from you on every player who posted something substantial in the thread. | ||
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On May 16 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote: dude. Read the setup talk. There is nothing of value that we can do day 1 when we dont even know which piece we are. Marv, I wanted you to explain about Please? for me? Sweet babe  Deconduo and Sentinel. Huh. Deconduo. All fucking setup talk, no scumhunting. This isnt unique btw, there are a few people like him. They cant all be scum though, as much as I would want it. Wait and see, WAIT AND SEE. Deconduo, top 2 scumspects. GOOOO. Sentinel, I liked his analysis on fferyllt. nothing more though, as of now, he is in my DO NOT LYNCH pile. Is this serious? He literally said that FF looks productive for posting fluff. | ||
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Sentinel looks sure that they don't know it. It's a matter of picking more information for us or less information for the angels (in the case that they DON'T know it), which isn't even sure. Let's say 4 of us have MS 3, then 4 have 4, last 4 have 5. If we purposefully slow down our movement it will be harder to discern who is who, at best if 3 of the MS 5 players move slower, then we could be sure about who is the remaining MS 5 player. It's essentially a gamble on the angels having that information or not having it, let's talk a little about it. | ||
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On May 16 2013 05:23 Zephirdd wrote: >ctrl+f speed on crossfire's and greymist's filter > one match, saying Okay I didn't understand what you meant with this one | ||
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On May 16 2013 05:34 Zephirdd wrote: Ok. We have facing direction and movement direction to discern each other. Done talking. Can you form a case on Sentinel bigger than the said "scumslip"? I had forgotten about the question of the MS you made, and I don't think it's impossible that the same happened there. It's literally on the first page since the game started. Maybe he has a similarly bad memory as yours, but he didn't even try to persuade me that my argumentation was bad, he rather preferred to call me scum immediately for something that is an idea worth considering. Which is something you did as well, but unlike Sentinel, you didn't vote me and fuck off, you kept poking. Hopping onto a quick reason, call someone scum and disappear without questioning your scumread is a solid tell for Sentinel being scum, added to his weird defense of FF. | ||
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His defense of Sentinel doesn't make any sense. He complains about setup talk when this is essentially a team board game. No WIFOM mindfucks, lynch people playing for scum. Unless he starts contributing meaningfully, he's up for the gallows. | ||
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On May 16 2013 08:54 ghost_403 wrote: *crickets in the thread* And people wonder why I don't post. A brief retort at Marv and Dec: Only an idiot would completely ignore the mechanics of a game. I chimed in my two cents, and then I was off to scum hunt. Unfortunately, it seems that no one is around whenever I'm here. Your reasons for voting me are terrible. Not a good sign, haven't decided what to make of that. I'm not impressed by Dec's play, but I might just be mad at him for voting me. I really don't like Oats play this game: plans are good, plans are bad, I'm on board, I feel like he's all over the place. I can't be arsed to look into his meta, otherwise I would lynch him for begin all over the place and generally unhelpful. BH's vouching for his meta is stopping me from voting him at the moment. I trust his read, haven't thought too much about his alignment. I'm not happy with Vivax's play, but I'm never happy with Vivax's play. I really don't like this post: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2013 05:17 Vivax wrote: This is a scumslip, the host explicitly said that it's possible that the angels know our movement speeds already. You showing this level of security as to immediately call me scum in spite of that fact, is proof that you are either not reading the thread with your due diligence, or scum with the information that angels don't know our movement speed, given your overall play I'm strongly leaning on the latter. I'm expecting your explanation for this, and I want reads from you on every player who posted something substantial in the thread. It seems passionate and poorly thought out. He's not trying to figure out Sentinel's alignment, or really thinking about what's going on; he's trying to push him onto the defensive and start an easy lynch. It kind of looks like he immediately dropped it, but it is kind of hard to tell at this point in the game. Until someone convinces me that leaving Vivax in game is a good idea, ##vote vivax Sentinel actually did what you're accusing me of, as you would know if you read my posts. Could you specify what you mean with "I immediately dropped it, but it's hard to tell?" and what relevance does it have for your read? | ||
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To not get modkilled maybe. Do you think that post looks scummy? | ||
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On May 16 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote: yes. 13 pages. And he has no reads. Like where is the town motivation for posting this post? It does not help town at all. At all. So he says he has reads. But oh man I dont really wanna share them cause they are MINE, MINE!!!!!!. Also he overexplains his acceptance of the obviously great plan. That post is so bad that I could see it coming from a townie, actually. I'd rather expect him to do some forced bullshit push, or jump on the bandwagon against me at this point, not apologize and admit that he's got nothing to contribute. + Show Spoiler + Two questions: - What's your read on Oats - What do you think of Sentinel's latest posting? | ||
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Sentinel gets townie points for pointing out a selectivity that would favor him. I'm just troubled with ghost showing a preference at all. It's possible he and sentinel are scumbuddies, but why does sentinel point it out then? | ||
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I feel he was needlessly antagonistic, and he didn't seem interested in setup discussion. He is more cooperative now though. | ||
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On May 16 2013 20:59 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, who do you want to kill right now? Oats cause he played like scum, and I wouldn't regret the loss if he's town. Frankly I don't understand how you can give him a townread just like that, I would like you to expand on it, and also your opinion on BH quickly abandoning the Oats option and then claiming towards me to have laid out reasoning for Oats being town, when he has only sheeped your reasoning IIRC. As for others, I'll wait for the return of Sentinel and Ghost to comment on the situation. Sharrant if he doesn't post more. He's usually very lengthy and insightful as town. | ||
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If your whole reason for voting me is OMGUS, you will have to keep that vote on me brah | ||
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On May 15 2013 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Is this one of your "GREAT TOWN PLAYER" reads? Or a BH read? He attacks a town read, with a tone that could either be jokey or aggressive, I'm not sure, but it's not constructive. Loaded question. Aggressive tone. He started like this, then his posts started improving a little, he might have started to feel pressured. I can't neglect that there's also a policy component to my lynch since he started to play this disruptively. I don't want to end up with Oats at LYLO, no offense. | ||
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On May 16 2013 21:34 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt actually mean to quote that lol. Why say that you think im not scummy then say Im your top scumspect. hmmmm? I said you improved your way of interacting with others, asking more useful questions, less loaded ones, less antagonizing. I suggest you keep it up that way and play as transparently and friendly as possible, we still have enough time, and if I think someone is more worthy of a lynch than you, then I'll not hesitate to make the right choice. On May 16 2013 20:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Um nope, mafia are known for posting a good looking/longish post not saying anything cause they dont actually need to scumhunt. That looks a lot like a scum first post after not being there. Point being that the post does not look designed to look good and is not really longish either. | ||
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On May 16 2013 21:39 marvellosity wrote: The problem with that Vivax is that it's basically entirely a policy lynch, because you well know Oats does that shit all the time as town. Suggest a better alternative then. I'm listening. | ||
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I'm currently looking at B and J and they are close to each other, they are basically already in a pair, any idea on how they should move ideally? | ||
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Or how we can coordinate our movements to maximize the effectiveness of B and J. | ||
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For example, the majority of players is on the left, if you want to reach the sides of the board, what would you do? You would let everyone move left, cause if everyone moves right, logically the majority would reach a position in the middle. | ||
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On May 16 2013 22:12 marvellosity wrote: You provided the specific example of B and J being together and how they should move optimally. How do you propose we do anything about this when we don't know who we are? I don't have anything concrete for them, I was trying to start some general musing about strategy. There might be a pattern to use to maximize the effectiveness of people being close to each other, the movement they make, the direction they face. And by pattern I mean, something everyone can agree on using, maybe cause there is a constellation on the board that encourages the use of a specific common strategy. | ||
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Upon rereading the whole thread, I now have someone else I would lynch: Zephir. On May 15 2013 06:34 Zephirdd wrote: players and angels seem to be entirely anonymous. I could have a gun and point my flashlight to an angel, but I would not know it unless I had knowledge of my own handle(the letter on the board). Angels, on the other hand, have full knowledge of the board and what does it do. That said, I'll claim that I will move four my full movement speed on day 1 in order to figure who I am. I will claim my MS after the movements are solved in order to not allow an angel to try to mimic my movements. anyone agrees/disagrees with that? Also BJ are together hueheu His posts are designed to look useful, but they actually contain a lot of false or pointless information. Bolded for false, italic for pointless. False cause you would get a message that you saw an angel last night. Pointless cause what he says is like saying "Mafia knows who townies are", and mafia can fakeclaim movement speed anyway. In the next post, he goes as far as to refer to this again, but contradicting himself in the process. + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2013 08:56 Zephirdd wrote: I do believe it is safe to assume that Angels have a moderate-to-high movement speed. Their objective is to feed on three town players - not kill, feed. In the same sense, I also assume players with a strong role are supposed to have a low movement speed, and weaker or positional-dependant roles have a higher MS. That said, I do believe it is quite easy to rule B as a non-angel. In fact, I find it hard to believe anyone on the group of A,J,B,C,F are Angels, simply because they are too close to each other. That does NOT rule them out as Angels, I just think it is less likely. ((for instance, if I could pick anyone there to be an angel, I'd say it's F or A because they seem have the smallest possibility of catching another player day 1)) That said, I like the idea of claiming the movement right before the lynch. If we can keep track of who is who(keep in mind Angels already have that info), we can use movement patterns to town's advantage. Remember that you can mask your maximum MS if you don't want to disclose it(ie. claim moving "3 tiles" even if your MS is 5), and you could even try to create breadcrumbs prior to the night post in order to get a good claim. He says that we should claim our movement speed, but also says it's fine to mask our movement speed by fakeclaiming. How does that make any fucking sense? It's just going to make it harder to discern who is who, and if you claim another movement speed than the one you used, then it's just going to get you into trouble later. When the Sentinel matter arose, he quickly took his side, showing him being trigger-happy on me despite what had been posted on page 1 since the start of the game, but not only that. The whole matter was about setup speculation, and what shows that Zephir's whole reasoning is bogus, is the fact that 1) First he attacks me for saying we could claim max MS 2) When phagga points out that the host said the angels could already know it, he quickly retracts the vote. 3) The next time he votes for me, he actually says I am pushing votes aggressively in one line, says I am not tunneling in the next line (implying that tunneling is townie) and then he says I am scum for just setup speculating when I have been pushing Oats already, by his own words. Also, why unvote me before if that was setup speculation too? This shows that he is just bringing multiple reasons up to push a lynch on me, and the timing to jump on the bandwagon on me is more telling anyway. 1) + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2013 05:20 Zephirdd wrote: sentinel's post is legit. Claiming max MS gives scum the information we don't have. This is the passage: Why are we required to move at max MS? by claiming direction+speed+facing_direction, we already narrow down tons of possibilities. also this It's a 25x25 board. It's not predictable when we are completely protected from one entire side of the board. Vivax, bring in your scum reads. Reasoning etc, be active. ##Vote Vivax 2) On May 16 2013 05:29 Zephirdd wrote: Oh. Yes. okay.jpg ##unvote 3) On May 16 2013 22:10 Zephirdd wrote: fferyllt disappeared after the initial pressure, as if he was fine with my unvote and didn't need to post anymore after that. Sigh. Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared. ghost_404 seems to be playing as normal from what I remember, not reading too much into it. Sentinel attracted too much attention for a scum Sentinel, at least this early. marv feel green. BH latest few posts are really weird. I had a green read early on. mkfuba is alive, hooray. Now here's to hoping he can contribute something other than fluff and self-defense. deconduo's play feels underwhelming and dare-I-say, scummy. His case on someone, after we pressured him a little bit, was a case on the 2-post guy that posted on the beginning of the game. He did have a pretty pro-town plan early on, and if he was an Angel he probably would never have asked the question of "who is what" on the board. Oatsmaster is acting pretty much how I'd expect a town Oats to act. Knowing him from IRC, he is 17 year old I think(or 16?), so I don't expect essays out of his posts - and he is being really abrasive. I think a scum Oats would be more reserved, prodding here and there but never being aggressive as he is now. If anyone played with scum Oats, please do prove me wrong. Vivax seems to be really focused on Oatsmaster, and is trying to lynch him out of policy. Not only that, he seems to be pretty much ignoring any other player on the board except Sentinel(which he dropped atm). He IS being actually really aggressive towards oats, and calling oats' play "playing like scum" is, in my opinion, bullshit. Oats has a history of not liking setup talk(which means its not a scumtell) but he isn't actively trying to fuck up with reads or something like that, nor he is trying to blend in and go unnoticed. And specially, he is not tunnel-visioning - at least not like Vivax. phagga seems like the standard townie. Nothing to add. mkfuba = lol Good morning everyone! Having said all of that, I was about to vote fferyllt again but Vivax's obsession with BJ is troubling me. Why talk about movement again, and not try to scumhunt? I don't know, look at other players other than oats, ask questions etc... instead he came back to setup talk. That makes no sense. I want to kill Vivax, fferyllt and Sharrant, in this order. ##vote Vivax ##Vote Zephirdd | ||
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On May 17 2013 02:04 Zephirdd wrote: We can still lynch sharrath i thimk. Deadline is in 3 hours iirc. Posting from phone @class so forgive me if this post is rushed. I dislike a deconduo lynch though. I made a big post about all players where I say it - there was a question he asked that makes me think would never be asked by an angel. Vivax looks like a better lynch than decond atm IMO Why do you want to lynch Sharrant. You said this earlier. He now has made more posts, there is no updated reasoning from your side, you're just looking for something easy to lynch. Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared. | ||
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I am not a fan of incriminating people based on the setup talk, rather for shutting it down, and even a bad idea is only as influential as the number of people following it. Proposing ideas with the potential to look so bad reads to me as unafraid, actually, people jumping at bad ideas screaming bloody murder read as scum. I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation. @ Zephir How can you say I was not scumhunting, it's not like I've only been talking setup the whole day. | ||
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On May 17 2013 02:39 Zephirdd wrote: Because of what marv said + his sudden jump on deconduo. I dont see much substance either on his few posts. I also have trouble formuling ideas and writting them on the phone. Marv said he's backing off him. So? | ||
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On May 17 2013 02:57 Zephirdd wrote: Deconduo disappeared after the ghost case. At this time yesterday he had posted at least once. Also you talked about two things: oats and setup. Where is sentinel by the way...? '-' he was postig a lot yesterday, but now that the steam is off him he is gone. @shatt I missed your post where you said you read the nested quote, and thought it was really weird. No, I also talked about sentinel, and now I'm talking about you.. It's ridiculous that you try to call people for scum by judging them by their quantity of reads. You for example have a post where you mention mkfuba=lol, not really worth mentioning, you should rather have people look at what you have to say regarding your subjects of most interest. Scum knows quantity looks good, town looks where they care to look. On May 17 2013 02:59 Zephirdd wrote: There he is lol @Vivax should he provide a good(great) defense + some thoughts/scumhunting of his own that makes sense, I'll gladly jump out of the vote line. But you said this earlier: Secondly, this post is more like telling sentinel what he should do to be safe than giving his thoughts on sentinel(what I had asked). I would be fine with this, but he doesnt try to tell fferyllt what she should do like he does with sentinel on that post. There is kind of an incosistency with his interaction between those two. AAaand deconduo's case on ghost is downright strawpicking IMO. I do think anyone who followed that case at the time did a bad thing. If you would truly believe these points you are made, how does him appearing and doing other stuff change your read on him? The points you are making seem to be unrelated to the future. Are you sure that he's scum or not? | ||
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If I have to vote decon for self-preservation, I will. But I'm not very happy with it. | ||
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On May 17 2013 02:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: My plan is to leave a vote on ghost for now. I'll be home in an hour and a half where I'll try to contribute before the lynch. I've skimmed the thread since my last post and will reread when I get home. Vote: ghost_403 Start here once you're back, I find it hard to figure out how you missed a post so close to yours: I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation. | ||
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zeph who I would consider to be my strong town reads atm. wat maybe read thread before posting | ||
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Don't vote for me your retards | ||
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you played well | ||
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