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On May 17 2013 11:18 ghost_403 wrote:
Or Oats. I think he scumslipped hard in that post I referenced. I'll put my vote on him for safe keeping.
On May 17 2013 12:21 mkfuba07 wrote:
K, I'm in. Unless oats has some power that would have allowed him to move like that, my vote's staying on him today.
##Vote: Oatsmaster
On May 17 2013 14:09 Blazinghand wrote:
Vivax/oats interaction doesn't seem to make a hyooj amount of sense for the oats=scum hypothesis just because, if I were scum and trying to get a stupid nonsensical case going against a somewhat incompetent player, I know I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it against a fellow scum guy. It's possible Vivax was busing/distancing Oats, I get that, but what's more likely to me is Vivax was lazy scum looking for an easy lynch and that Oats would be doable since Oats isn't very good. I don't have to make any weird leaps of logic for the "scum vivax launches a bad attack against incompetent Oats that gets himself lynched" theory. I DO have to make some weird assumptions for the "scum vivax launches a bad attack against his own incompetent Oats scumbuddy that gets himself lynched" theory.
On May 17 2013 19:37 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Hm... odd that Vivax would bus Oats out of the blue like that, but I guess if it weren't for the scumslip Oats would be pretty much above the level of suspicion.
##Vote: Oatsmaster
On May 17 2013 21:32 deconduo wrote:
Just popping in for a few minutes, looks like oats slipped hard.
##Vote Oatsmaster
On May 17 2013 22:06 phagga wrote:
Also, not gonna vote Oats for now. If all you guys have going is that he sent in the directions wrong and the hosts allow it, there is no way I'm voting him. I just skimmed his filter again for behaviour towards Vivax. He voted him when Vivax started the setup talk and never moved his vote, also he could have easily hopped on the deconduo bandwagon later on. And while i know that some people buss quite recklessly, his specific vote behaviour does not make much sense to me if he scum.
The whole movement thing could be a host error, not voting Oats for that.
On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
##Vote: Oatsmaster
These are the reactions to the Oatsmaster thing so far.
I don't think I need to wait for fferyllt.
Deconduo, Sentinel, mkfuba and ghost all just sheepped hard into the whole "slip".
Blazinghand questioned its validity, phagga decided it's not a valid reason.
Sharrant, however, had a different reaction. Not a sheep, he instead decided to look at something else in the post but still call it a slip.
+ Show Spoiler [Why it is not a slip] +Oatsmaster's post never mentioned that he wanted to move to that specific position. "I wanted to move there" is an ambiguous sentence - it is a perfectly fine sentence for when you want to say "I wanted to move up"
Oatsmaster is pretty much demoralized.
Here is the deal. This slip is bullshit. Like phagga said, it is quite possible this could be a host mistake; It's also possible, and I mean highly possible that Oatsmaster is a blue that knows his initial position.
The issue is that everyone just forgot the "holy fuck Oats is being his annoying town self" from day 1. I will excuse mkfuba here because he was away most of day 1 and may have not noticed it; ghost is always kinda inactive and could also have missed it(his timezone is really different from oats', and I think this played a big part into identifying oats as town).
I made a post about Sharrant, ghost did a post on Sharrant, phagga found out how Vivax pretty much avoided Sharrant(and Sharrant defended Vivax hard); this slip thing is bullshit and you all should know it.
Deconduo, Sentinel are two that I want to look at after Sharrant.
Sharrant, you better work hard. Give us interactions. Interact with everyone else.
##unvote
##Vote Sharrant
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Day 2 Lynch
Oatsmaster (4): Zephirdd, ghost_403, mkfuba07, [UoN]Sentinel, deconduo
Sharrant (1): ghost_403, Zephirdd
The lynch will happen in at 20:00 GMT (+00:00). With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Let me know if I missed something or made a mistake.
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On Deconduo, I'm back to my initial town read. I realized I did recognize his name, and then I realized where from. We both played in Boardwalk PYP, where he was town, selected janitor, and used it on the first night. I read him as town until Marv pointed out how mafia favoured his first plan was, now I realize he's the same guy who played the single most mafia favoured town game I have ever seen.
If I'm still alive on the next cycle, I'll look into him again, but for now I think he's town.
Sentinel seems pretty townie now that Vivax has flipped red. There's still a chance they were going for some distancing early, but the way he broke off their conversation is just as likely to come from a townie as scum. His references to Vivax afterwards make me think he's town though. He just puts both their names back into the light of the thread too much for them to be scum together.
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And no, Zepphird, the whole point is that "I wanted to move there" is not ambiguous. He states that he desired to move to that location. I had not though about a blue role that could have known their position to start, but I don't particularly see that. If he wanted to move to "there" he had to know where he was to begin with. The only way I see that being true is if he is an Angel.
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On May 18 2013 00:17 Sharrant wrote:
And no, Zepphird, the whole point is that "I wanted to move there" is not ambiguous. He states that he desired to move to that location. I had not though about a blue role that could have known their position to start, but I don't particularly see that. If he wanted to move to "there" he had to know where he was to begin with. The only way I see that being true is if he is an Angel.
Why do you think it's not possible that he is a blue? Do you think his play in day 1 was scummy enough that he can't possibly be town? Why is that?
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Also sharrant what is your MS
if you are town, move up 4 tiles this day
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On May 17 2013 23:31 Zephirdd wrote:
I want to see everyone's reaction to this oats thing.
@phagga
on the counterside, Sharranth talked a lot about Vivax but only defending him. Like, defending hard. I think I made an earlier post about that, before the whole "slip" thing.
@Oatsmaster
if you're town, don't feel demotivated. You are not dead yet and we can still let you live no problem. Use this moment to your advantage, and pressure people who you think are scum.
good morning.
Sharrant is weirder and weirder(need more posts from him); fferyllt looks better than at day 1; ghost had a cool post on sharranth; sentinel and deconduo are pretty set on what they are doing; blazinghand loves saying I'm town; mkfuba asked a nice question but he seems lurky; phagga is greenpeace
yet to comment on oatsmaster thing: fferyllt, sharrath
If you are town remember that the day is not over
Your observation about me looks like bullshit.
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On May 18 2013 00:19 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:17 Sharrant wrote:
And no, Zepphird, the whole point is that "I wanted to move there" is not ambiguous. He states that he desired to move to that location. I had not though about a blue role that could have known their position to start, but I don't particularly see that. If he wanted to move to "there" he had to know where he was to begin with. The only way I see that being true is if he is an Angel. Why do you think it's not possible that he is a blue? Do you think his play in day 1 was scummy enough that he can't possibly be town? Why is that?
I don't see it being a blue role for the following reason: The chances of any random player moving in the optimal direction on day 1 were 70:30 in favour of moving correctly. A blue role with the defining trait that they know their starting point is essentially just the power of having a better first move than 30% of the town members. That's such a weak role unless it was given something else, that I just don't particularly see it being likely.
I don't think his day one play was particularly telling towards either alignment, to be honest. It does feel a bit different from his play on day one of the last game we played in, where he was mislynched, but I could not definitively say whether that makes him more or less scummy this game.
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On May 18 2013 00:21 Zephirdd wrote:
Also sharrant what is your MS
if you are town, move up 4 tiles this day
Why do you think I can move 4 tiles? This makes literally no sense.
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On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning everyone, glad to see I was wrong about Vivax.
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
On the board I am most certainly L, all I did was an about face, didn't figure anyone else would do anything similar, and I didn't want to potentially move myself into a worse position by blindly moving. (about 70-30 chance of picking the right direction versus not)
It seems to me that the optimal movement for town is as follows: Form into large groups as quickly as possible, and gather up stragglers as we move around the board. The trick here, is that once we are into a group, we do not want our specific move patterns known. It's been revealed to us through Vivax's PM that the angels have a "leap" mechanic, where they match a players movement within a certain range. We can use this to our advantage in the following way: Once we are in groups of 3-4 people, the group will set a direction of up to 3 spaces. The players in the group will all keep their moves hidden but will do their best to follow the assigned direction and distance. (optimal distance is probably 1 or 2) The people on the outside of the group always move inwards, and the people on the insides always move outwards. I believe this would make the leaps ineffective in the clutter because of bodyblocking. It also means if an angel does get inside the group, we can pretty much guarantee at least someone will have their flashlight on the angel, after that it's just coordination.
[green]If an angel encounters an obstacle, say a town character, that is not their intended target during a leap what will happen?
If a player ends the night beside an Angel, does that Angel feed automatically, or does the Angel have to specify the target in advance and then get close to them?[green]
##Vote: Oatsmaster
The host wifom has made me leery of the Oatsmaster wagon. I think your paragraph 2 makes sense, though.
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On May 18 2013 00:29 fferyllt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning everyone, glad to see I was wrong about Vivax.
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
On the board I am most certainly L, all I did was an about face, didn't figure anyone else would do anything similar, and I didn't want to potentially move myself into a worse position by blindly moving. (about 70-30 chance of picking the right direction versus not)
It seems to me that the optimal movement for town is as follows: Form into large groups as quickly as possible, and gather up stragglers as we move around the board. The trick here, is that once we are into a group, we do not want our specific move patterns known. It's been revealed to us through Vivax's PM that the angels have a "leap" mechanic, where they match a players movement within a certain range. We can use this to our advantage in the following way: Once we are in groups of 3-4 people, the group will set a direction of up to 3 spaces. The players in the group will all keep their moves hidden but will do their best to follow the assigned direction and distance. (optimal distance is probably 1 or 2) The people on the outside of the group always move inwards, and the people on the insides always move outwards. I believe this would make the leaps ineffective in the clutter because of bodyblocking. It also means if an angel does get inside the group, we can pretty much guarantee at least someone will have their flashlight on the angel, after that it's just coordination.
[green]If an angel encounters an obstacle, say a town character, that is not their intended target during a leap what will happen?
If a player ends the night beside an Angel, does that Angel feed automatically, or does the Angel have to specify the target in advance and then get close to them?[green]
##Vote: Oatsmaster The host wifom has made me leery of the Oatsmaster wagon. I think your paragraph 2 makes sense, though.
Can you expound on the bolded part?
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On May 18 2013 00:28 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:19 Zephirdd wrote:On May 18 2013 00:17 Sharrant wrote:
And no, Zepphird, the whole point is that "I wanted to move there" is not ambiguous. He states that he desired to move to that location. I had not though about a blue role that could have known their position to start, but I don't particularly see that. If he wanted to move to "there" he had to know where he was to begin with. The only way I see that being true is if he is an Angel. Why do you think it's not possible that he is a blue? Do you think his play in day 1 was scummy enough that he can't possibly be town? Why is that? I don't see it being a blue role for the following reason: The chances of any random player moving in the optimal direction on day 1 were 70:30 in favour of moving correctly. A blue role with the defining trait that they know their starting point is essentially just the power of having a better first move than 30% of the town members. That's such a weak role unless it was given something else, that I just don't particularly see it being likely. I don't think his day one play was particularly telling towards either alignment, to be honest. It does feel a bit different from his play on day one of the last game we played in, where he was mislynched, but I could not definitively say whether that makes him more or less scummy this game.
What makes you think that a blue role's power would solely be about knowing its initial position? What if a role has a power and knowing his position is just a bonus, so you can use your power properly? Moving optimally is incredibly subjective on this game, when you consider that you can't tell who is who - EVEN if you know who you are yourself.
If you can move 4 tiles to the north then don't move, but if you can do it. I want to be close to someone even if I think he is scum puppet.
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Ah, okay, I understand now. I didn't realize you were the one without a flashlight. That makes more sense now.
I'm going to head up to you, and from there I think we should try and get into a larger group. Were you informed of what happened to your flashlight?
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On May 18 2013 00:35 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:29 fferyllt wrote:On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning everyone, glad to see I was wrong about Vivax.
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
On the board I am most certainly L, all I did was an about face, didn't figure anyone else would do anything similar, and I didn't want to potentially move myself into a worse position by blindly moving. (about 70-30 chance of picking the right direction versus not)
It seems to me that the optimal movement for town is as follows: Form into large groups as quickly as possible, and gather up stragglers as we move around the board. The trick here, is that once we are into a group, we do not want our specific move patterns known. It's been revealed to us through Vivax's PM that the angels have a "leap" mechanic, where they match a players movement within a certain range. We can use this to our advantage in the following way: Once we are in groups of 3-4 people, the group will set a direction of up to 3 spaces. The players in the group will all keep their moves hidden but will do their best to follow the assigned direction and distance. (optimal distance is probably 1 or 2) The people on the outside of the group always move inwards, and the people on the insides always move outwards. I believe this would make the leaps ineffective in the clutter because of bodyblocking. It also means if an angel does get inside the group, we can pretty much guarantee at least someone will have their flashlight on the angel, after that it's just coordination.
[green]If an angel encounters an obstacle, say a town character, that is not their intended target during a leap what will happen?
If a player ends the night beside an Angel, does that Angel feed automatically, or does the Angel have to specify the target in advance and then get close to them?[green]
##Vote: Oatsmaster The host wifom has made me leery of the Oatsmaster wagon. I think your paragraph 2 makes sense, though. Can you expound on the bolded part?
I'm talking about the questions swirling over whether the host would accept and process a messed up move depending on the alignment of the player, and the fact that at least some of the votes on that wagon appear to be predicated on an answer of "yes, they would if the player were an Angel".
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ghost_403, you never answered Sentinels question:
On May 16 2013 10:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Time for some thoughts on Ghost's recent post. Show nested quote +I chimed in my two cents, and then I was off to scum hunt. Unfortunately, it seems that no one is around whenever I'm here. I find a bunch of problems with this alone. Being alone while scumhunting makes my mafiadick hard. It means I can focus on what's already present in the thread with a clear mind, without having to worry about changing conditions. A lot of my reasoning goes out the window when the thread updates. I don't know why you'd have a problem with it and resort to lurking. Show nested quote +Sentinel's play has been bad this game as well, but IIRC, I always think that. Explain me why you vote for Vivax and not myself. That's a shitty vote to throw around. Game plan for myself is to organize my thoughts because that's what I'm lacking right now. I'm going to draft up another spreadsheet to consolidate my reads tomorrow and then start making calls from that.
Please explain.
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On May 18 2013 00:56 fferyllt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:35 phagga wrote:On May 18 2013 00:29 fferyllt wrote:On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning everyone, glad to see I was wrong about Vivax.
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
On the board I am most certainly L, all I did was an about face, didn't figure anyone else would do anything similar, and I didn't want to potentially move myself into a worse position by blindly moving. (about 70-30 chance of picking the right direction versus not)
It seems to me that the optimal movement for town is as follows: Form into large groups as quickly as possible, and gather up stragglers as we move around the board. The trick here, is that once we are into a group, we do not want our specific move patterns known. It's been revealed to us through Vivax's PM that the angels have a "leap" mechanic, where they match a players movement within a certain range. We can use this to our advantage in the following way: Once we are in groups of 3-4 people, the group will set a direction of up to 3 spaces. The players in the group will all keep their moves hidden but will do their best to follow the assigned direction and distance. (optimal distance is probably 1 or 2) The people on the outside of the group always move inwards, and the people on the insides always move outwards. I believe this would make the leaps ineffective in the clutter because of bodyblocking. It also means if an angel does get inside the group, we can pretty much guarantee at least someone will have their flashlight on the angel, after that it's just coordination.
[green]If an angel encounters an obstacle, say a town character, that is not their intended target during a leap what will happen?
If a player ends the night beside an Angel, does that Angel feed automatically, or does the Angel have to specify the target in advance and then get close to them?[green]
##Vote: Oatsmaster The host wifom has made me leery of the Oatsmaster wagon. I think your paragraph 2 makes sense, though. Can you expound on the bolded part? I'm talking about the questions swirling over whether the host would accept and process a messed up move depending on the alignment of the player, and the fact that at least some of the votes on that wagon appear to be predicated on an answer of "yes, they would if the player were an Angel".
Ok, I understand that I asked the question wrong, because that's not what I wanted to know.
Is there anyone specific on the Oats wagon that you are leery of?
Also, quite generally, who would you like to lynch currently? Who looks like scum to you and why?
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On May 18 2013 00:46 Sharrant wrote:
Ah, okay, I understand now. I didn't realize you were the one without a flashlight. That makes more sense now.
I'm going to head up to you, and from there I think we should try and get into a larger group. Were you informed of what happened to your flashlight?
No information.
And nobody claimed to have seen anything so far.
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On May 18 2013 01:00 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:46 Sharrant wrote:
Ah, okay, I understand now. I didn't realize you were the one without a flashlight. That makes more sense now.
I'm going to head up to you, and from there I think we should try and get into a larger group. Were you informed of what happened to your flashlight? No information. And nobody claimed to have seen anything so far.
Okay. I hope you can figure out the move I want you to make, I'm not comfortable saying it in the thread right now.
One thing that should be noted: I don't believe there was an angel near whichever body was Marv's. They do control at least one factional KP, so it seems likely to me that they do not have to be near someone to cause them to die by "having their neck snapped".
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On May 18 2013 01:00 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 00:56 fferyllt wrote:On May 18 2013 00:35 phagga wrote:On May 18 2013 00:29 fferyllt wrote:On May 17 2013 23:37 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning everyone, glad to see I was wrong about Vivax.
I don't buy into the whole "hosts let him get away with using cardinal directions because he is scum", that could've been an honest mistake, I don't particularly buy into the host WIFOM. What I believe makes it a scum slip is that he said "I wanted to move here". A townie would have no idea who they are, so how could they have a specific destination in mind?
On the board I am most certainly L, all I did was an about face, didn't figure anyone else would do anything similar, and I didn't want to potentially move myself into a worse position by blindly moving. (about 70-30 chance of picking the right direction versus not)
It seems to me that the optimal movement for town is as follows: Form into large groups as quickly as possible, and gather up stragglers as we move around the board. The trick here, is that once we are into a group, we do not want our specific move patterns known. It's been revealed to us through Vivax's PM that the angels have a "leap" mechanic, where they match a players movement within a certain range. We can use this to our advantage in the following way: Once we are in groups of 3-4 people, the group will set a direction of up to 3 spaces. The players in the group will all keep their moves hidden but will do their best to follow the assigned direction and distance. (optimal distance is probably 1 or 2) The people on the outside of the group always move inwards, and the people on the insides always move outwards. I believe this would make the leaps ineffective in the clutter because of bodyblocking. It also means if an angel does get inside the group, we can pretty much guarantee at least someone will have their flashlight on the angel, after that it's just coordination.
[green]If an angel encounters an obstacle, say a town character, that is not their intended target during a leap what will happen?
If a player ends the night beside an Angel, does that Angel feed automatically, or does the Angel have to specify the target in advance and then get close to them?[green]
##Vote: Oatsmaster The host wifom has made me leery of the Oatsmaster wagon. I think your paragraph 2 makes sense, though. Can you expound on the bolded part? I'm talking about the questions swirling over whether the host would accept and process a messed up move depending on the alignment of the player, and the fact that at least some of the votes on that wagon appear to be predicated on an answer of "yes, they would if the player were an Angel". Ok, I understand that I asked the question wrong, because that's not what I wanted to know. Is there anyone specific on the Oats wagon that you are leery of? Also, quite generally, who would you like to lynch currently? Who looks like scum to you and why?
Gut says Ghost is the most questionable on the Oats wagon. I need to find time to figure out what my gut is worried about. Zeph freaked my out when he said my sole day 2 post (pretty sure it was one post at that point, where I said which letter I think is mine) looked better than my day 1 body of work.
I want to dig some more before answering your last questions. Probably in an hour or so.
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On May 17 2013 23:37 Zephirdd wrote:
also everyone consider this: If Oats is town, who is scum?
Dec and ghost
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EPT
