EPTDoctor Who Mafia - Page 34
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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Sharrant
Canada543 Posts
On May 18 2013 11:12 Oatsmaster wrote: DISAPPEARING OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. Friday nights man, busy stuff. Guys i dont think Sharrant is a good lynch, cause marv said so and sheeping dead confirmed townies is awesome. Also cause he has shown effort is his posting and its reads like he believes in this shit and is not lying. Now who is scum? Deconduo. What marv said which was, Hit and run case on Ghost. Mafia favored plan. What else that solidified my read on him was Look at the attutide here in this post, its an attitude of survival rather than lynching scum. He doesnt say its for consolidation, he says its 'better him than me'. Also his stance for Vivax 30 minutes before the vote is 'not d1 lynch'. What changed in those 30 minutes deconduo?. Keep in mind that Vivax flipped scum. Looks like an opportunistic vote to not stand out. The case was not 50% meta, it was behavior with a splash of meta thrown in. His defence to the bad plan was, I didnt think it through. Why would you just spout out a plan without thinking about it? Its more than likely that people will just ignore it and what discussion do you get out of that? No, it was activity for the sake of activity. Deconduo is thinking here, WOOHOO SCUMSLIP. YES. NO NEED TO 'FIND' A LYNCH. YEAH!!!. Then he disappears and comes back with Dec is not taking into account other possibilities, he is tunneling me cause he cant find anyone else and 'scumslips' make it easy for scum to latch onto. Gotta go for now, be back in like an hour+ Oats, I like this post from you, but I'd just like you to give me a quick (one paragraph at most and no more than that) explanation of your movement claim. I don't have much time tonight or tomorrow before the deadline, but if you can explain it in a manner that makes sense to me, I'll reconsider. I do like your points on Deconduo, I'm interested in your thoughts on anyone you think is important right now. If I don't think your explanation matches up to what happened, I at least want as much information from you as I can get. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On May 18 2013 09:30 ghost_403 wrote: Just noted that Zephh brought up that maybe Oats is a blue who knew his piece as part of his role. Possible, but I feel unlikely. A blue should (being the operative statement here) have stuck around to try and prove his use to the town. As a power role, they have responsibilities to make sure that they're not dead. That's not his reaction to this situation. Instead, he makes a few less than helpful comments and leaves the thread entirely. Either he's a blue who's rage quit, or he's a scum that got caught. Or I have real life. Yeah bad timing. Well. Also to everyone asking, iama VT. ok VT, not blue. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Fferyllt's vote on Vivax I think is legit. He was trying to get ANY lynch for the day, deconduo or vivax, and vivax was on his radar earlier. mfkuba though I don't like, but I think he's legit for mainly for this post (link) in which he begins the post talking about lynching vivax, then notes that there's a deconduo mass-swap going on and swaps to deconduo to avoid no-lynching. When he sees we're swapping back to vivax, he goes back to avoid a no-lynch. I think the fact that he was planning to write a case against vivax then got caught up in the voteswapping is a sign of a town motive. F I'm left with dec, sent, sharr, zeph who all moved onto vivax between 1:20 out and the lynch deadline. Zeph I'm setting aside as town due to his townlike setup speculation and his aggression towards oats regarding some kinda weird movemeng mechanic speculation. He's clearly trying hard. If he's scum he gets to live another day. I cant see it tbh. sharrant's interactions with marv convinced marv, and for now that's good enough for me. It's also worth noting that despite being one of the guys pushin this (imo) wrongheaded oats lynch, he's listening to and talking to oats and trying to glean info. sentinel didn't need to come back to the thread, ask to be sold, and be sold. that being said he's said a lot of stuff that's struck me his game as weird. maybe but not a top priority. I rule out the oats/vivax bus theory, I just don't see vivax going for that. I could see a long bus coming from deconduo (dont' think of him as town just because he was the other wagon) and also from ghost, whose case imo is weak/bad I really find a lot of weird interactions between ghost, deconduo, and vivax during day 1. What's with deconduo (who has posted very little) dropping this zero-followup case on ghost? When he was called out for it he eventually did some weak followup, but his entire action today has been pushing an oats slip theory despite thinking he's caught and oats-ghost scumteam. Where's the additional information? Where's the case? He just dropped his vote in here and bailed. I think ghost's interactions with vivax and decon during day 1 are weird but maybe I can just chalk that up to ghost being weird. he calls out vivax with his first real post (link) and is basically on vivax (sort of) for the rest of the game. now colour me crazy but I don't see him doing that to a scumbuddy. Not if there was a hcance of it really picking up steam for a day 1 mislynch. Really what it comes down to me is I think we were choosing between scum deconduo and scum vivax lynches yeterday. I think deconduo is scum. Giving out a townread on zeph was easy money for him, and the fact that he makes no mention of oats, doesn't write a case, and just claims the guy slipped hard and votes him and runs, makes deconduo scum in my book. I don't see the oats bus. I don't see scum sharrant interacting with marv so openly. I don't see either of these wagons. The real wagon that needs to be pushed today is deconduo. On May 18 2013 09:40 deconduo wrote: I agree that oats' play day one wasn't particularly scummy. However that slip us way too blatant for us to ignore as a mistake. First of all oats would have to not read up on how the movement works,secondly the hosts would have to not inform him that he moved illegally and finally the hosts would have to willingly put his move through. If he is a blue that knows his position, why hasn't he at least soft claimed instead of disappearing off the face of the earth. The fact of the matter is, he's lynching a someone for whom, as far as he knows, is town player for sending in a weird night action. You can't have this as your justification for lynching oats. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
are you willing to stake AN ENTIRE LYNCH on this speculation, OVER your read? DECONDUO: you admit you think oats d1 play, and I quote, "wasn't particularly scummy" but you still want to lynch him. This is not acceptable, and coupled with your scummy play indicates you are scum. GHOST: you intially had some concerns about Oats D1, but you admit that such concerns are assuaged by my meta read of Oats. Do you think I'm wrong, or is your vote on him just because of the wording of his movement, as you imply here? (link) FUBA: you interacted with oats several times d1, and you even questioned whether it was wise of him to vote vivax. Is your voting him now based entirely on his wording of his movement, as you imply here? (link) SENT: you say (link) that if not for the movement thing, Oats would be "above the level of suspicion". Is it really just the movement claim that changes you from utterly unwilling to lynch Oats to voting him? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
A) the way mafia angels move is by telling the hosts a relative movement using absolute direction (ie move north 3, east 2), despite the fact that the hosts have explicitly asked other members of the game (town) to move using relative direction B) the hosts have chosen to get some of their movement directions in absolutes (from scum), and some of them in relative direction (from town) C) scum ALSO send in the movements for dummies using absolute direction, rather than relative direction (since scum Oats would have to not know about relative direction to "slip" this. remember, he's pretending to be a dummy) D) also, that C) is true despite the fact that some of the "dummies" are town players moving using relative motion and finally, E) that the reason crossfire is receiving some of his orders with absolute and some with relative motion, for both kinds of pieces, and combining these different kinds of motion is that, AND I QUOTE, On May 15 2013 12:20 Crossfire99 wrote: because it's so much simpler for him to run two parallel systems of movement for some reasonbecause this will prevent confusion when I have to play chess at the deadline THAT IS WHAT YOU FUCKING MORONS ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
imagine oats is town and he's telling the truth. He PMed the hosts and was like "I move up 3 spaces and left 2 while looking up" or something. for this to be true, all this requires is oats glossed over a post or two in the thread and the host saying "ok, I understand what he sent me, no need to send him a snarky PM requiring him to re-send in his movement". This is pretty easy to imagine. I bet this is what happened. now imagine oats is scum and this is a legit slip. he pmed the hosts saying "move my dummy up 3 spaces and left 2" because this is how scum move their dummies. for this to be true, hosts have to be running two different ways of keeping track of movement, which seems needlessly complicated, and use both of those for moving dummies around. and then there's the same assumption that oats glossed over soem of the thread, but this time as scum instead of town. since both scenarios require oats not paying attention to the post, the fact that he did in fact not realize how to move is not the part that's different between our two potential outcomes. Both outcomes assume oats glossed over this post. You guys ugh, you guys good night. vote deconduo. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
##Vote: Deconduo On May 18 2013 13:07 Sharrant wrote: Oats, I like this post from you, but I'd just like you to give me a quick (one paragraph at most and no more than that) explanation of your movement claim. I don't have much time tonight or tomorrow before the deadline, but if you can explain it in a manner that makes sense to me, I'll reconsider. I do like your points on Deconduo, I'm interested in your thoughts on anyone you think is important right now. If I don't think your explanation matches up to what happened, I at least want as much information from you as I can get. What I sent was 3 up and look up. The reason why I said 'I wanted to move here' was that I figured that there was probably angels or statues in the area between HB6 and AAU25. So moving up and looking up would be the most efficient way I felt. Then with no one else claiming B, and B is matching my movement, and I think everything else was claimed already right? So I was in the right place that my actions indicated. | ||
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Sharrant
Canada543 Posts
I could still go for a Deconduo lynch at this point, but there's a few things in your post I think need to be addressed. I did not at any point vote Vivax. I was not someone who switched from Deconduo to Vivax, I was away from the thread during the vote swap. Does that change how willing you are to sheep Marv on me? The point about Oats that is important is NOT that he claims to have used cardinal directions to move. While that is indicative of a potential slip, it does also include the possibility of a townie sending the wrong PM in and the hosts being lenient. The important point is that he said he moved to where he wanted to be. How can someone, without knowing who they are on the board, already pick out where they want to move? "I wanted to move here." That's the point that reads as a scum slip, and why I would like him to explain it. Not only does it show extra information not obtainable by town at that point, but it showsa scum mindset: Town are attempting to pick a movement pattern that will discern themselves from everyone else, with a secondary objective of hopefully getting lucky and wandering into a better board position. The Angels are attempting to move themselves around the board in the manner most optimal for feeding, whilst moving their puppets to disguise themselves. This means the difference between town and puppet movement is that one is essentially random, and other is not. I have not had the time to do so, but later today I intend to look at all of the player movements carefully. Scum most likely looked at what was optimal for their puppet to move, and did that or something close. So movement that was in the range of the best possible few moves for a piece should be examined. TL;DR: It's not a slip because the host executed a misphrased PM. It's a slip because a townie's response would be "Those were the moves I intended to make" because that's all we have to go on. A mafia would slip up and say "I intended to move there" because he already has knowledge of where his move would take him on the board. | ||
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Sharrant
Canada543 Posts
On May 18 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Deconduo defended himself by saying. OMGUS. Which it wasnt. ##Vote: Deconduo What I sent was 3 up and look up. The reason why I said 'I wanted to move here' was that I figured that there was probably angels or statues in the area between HB6 and AAU25. So moving up and looking up would be the most efficient way I felt. Then with no one else claiming B, and B is matching my movement, and I think everything else was claimed already right? So I was in the right place that my actions indicated. I'll give this some thought. There's a part of me saying to lynch Deconduo, and if he flips scum, that you're off the hook, but if he flips town to come back and lynch you. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 18 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Deconduo defended himself by saying. OMGUS. Which it wasnt. ##Vote: Deconduo What I sent was 3 up and look up. The reason why I said 'I wanted to move here' was that I figured that there was probably angels or statues in the area between HB6 and AAU25. So moving up and looking up would be the most efficient way I felt. Then with no one else claiming B, and B is matching my movement, and I think everything else was claimed already right? So I was in the right place that my actions indicated. You know what? As someone who spent half of Day 1 dealing with a frenzy of accusation because one of my posts got taken out of context, I wholeheartedly believe this post. Now I can vote for deconduo like I intended. ##Unvote ##Vote deconduo | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
I'm Billy Shipton, a DT that can check people next to me. If I finish the turn next to someone, I get told they are town or not. If I finish next to multiple people, I get told how many are town. This is one of the reasons I suggested that everyone group together, it makes my role much more powerful. I also know that there is no godfather in the game. I figure as I'm A and oats is B, if I move towards him and he moves towards me I can check him tonight. If I die, you know he's an angel and you can lynch him tomorrow. Alternatively Sentinel is within range of me checking them as well, but I still think oats is a better option. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On May 18 2013 22:04 deconduo wrote: Well seeing as I don't have much of a choice. I'm Billy Shipton, a DT that can check people next to me. If I finish the turn next to someone, I get told they are town or not. If I finish next to multiple people, I get told how many are town. This is one of the reasons I suggested that everyone group together, it makes my role much more powerful. I also know that there is no godfather in the game. I figure as I'm A and oats is B, if I move towards him and he moves towards me I can check him tonight. If I die, you know he's an angel and you can lynch him tomorrow. Alternatively Sentinel is within range of me checking them as well, but I still think oats is a better option. K sounds like a great idea. I love being confirmed town  . Or we lynch Deconduo if he survives. ##Unvote Now ghost. Why is your vote still on me? | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On May 18 2013 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote: K sounds like a great idea. I love being confirmed town . Or we lynch Deconduo if he survives. ##Unvote Now ghost. Why is your vote still on me? So you will move towards me? Grand Also saying to lynch me if I survive is a bit stupid. While I fully expect to die, whats to stop mafia leaving me alive to save their KP for someone else and waste a lynch on me tomorrow? | ||
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