EPTCarnival Cruise Mafia - Page 2
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 14 2013 04:47 chaoser wrote: 1) What chance did he have of scumhunting after his miller claim when pretty much everyone was on him? 2) Do you not consider his questioning of obviousone's posts and pressure on him scum hunting? 3) What was the purpose of your posts to DP? what was your goal with those two posts and then leaving? pressure? 1) That was the whole point. As he claimed miller he should have not defended himself and his claim after that. Of course people are going to jump on a scummy claim like that. The correct way to deal with everyone being on him would have been to say "you think this is scummy, i don't, deal with it. Now drop the issue and go find scum, if you think i'm scum, vote for me D1 and we work from there". That's why i told him to go do something useful. 2) No i didn't at that time. However as i said i now agree with Prome on OO and his contributions with DP (and the night kills). 3) Yes, pressure and creating topics to discuss (this includes me wanting people to discuss me). That's also why i said to DP "everyone besides you is probably town besides you". I'm kinda surprised noone else than shirokami brought that up. I also thought at that point everyone else did look town, as not many people had posted real content. If you look at my past games i always want to create discussion at the start of the game. You can also find out what i do think about miller claims in a setup where the number of millers is not known. Shiro: I hope this answers your question aswell. chaoser: Do you think OO is scummy? If no, why, and why do you think DP was killed? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 14 2013 04:55 Vivax wrote: .... I don't mind concluding D1 with a policy lynch either, looking along the ranks of Sinani/BM/prplhz , scum will never kill them anyway. Why not Kush? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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You want to lynch WoS for him straight up agreeing with you that scum killed DP, but not Vayne even when he did take a full 180 on flip analysis when you told him scum might have more than 1 KP? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 14 2013 05:59 Vivax wrote: You are free to not vote for him if you don't think he's scum, but I feel quite confident about the choice and given the policy component I wouldn't feel too bad if I was wrong. Looks like win-win to me. I don't think the policy component makes prpl more scum/town and that's a shitty to add that as a reason. If you want to policy lynch him for being a lurker, fine. But i smell something fishy here.. Why are you paining this as a "possible policy lynch if you are wrong"? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 14 2013 06:03 Blazinghand wrote: Almost! I want to lynch WoS for HOW he agreed with me that scum killed DP, and I want to not lynch vayne because HOW he did his 180 on flip analysis. Perhaps I didn't make this clear enough in my case: Whether someone buddies me, or whether someone disagrees with me, or whether someone derps or is wrong or is right, these are not how you catch scum. Scum can fake agreeing or disagreeing or being good or being bad as much as they want. A scum player could just bus all his buddies and pretend to be a master scumhunter, if all you look at is who he pushes and who he defends. I'm not saying this isn't useful information (since scum obviously don't want to bus) but this is only part of the picture. When you hunt scum, you need to pay attention to HOW people do things, and what they are thinking (or not thinking) when they do. WoS's post, imo, could not have come from a town mindset. I don't think he'd have written what he did the way he did if he really was town and was wondering why we were in agreement. Vayne, on the other hand, really just seems to be that wrongheaded, and although I don't think of him as captain mctown, i can see how from a town PoV Vayne has written what he has. This is how you hunt scum. I understand what you are saying. My point is that i myself do not understand why Vayne just agreed with you on the 2 KP thing. He did not explain it when i asked him about it. That's why i don't see the difference between WoS and Vayne, and i don't understand how you do see it. Gonna reread WoS now. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 14 2013 06:11 Vivax wrote: Now I don't understand where you are going with your questions, actually. You say it's fine if I want to lynch a lurker, when I wrote a case against prplhz, and in the next sentence you say it's not ok if it's a policy lynch where I could be wrong. Rayn rayn To me it seems like you are saying; "I have my reasons to lynch prpl, they are flimsy, but when he flips town i can tell people i policy lynched him for lurking". WoS: What do you think of OO? What makes Oats or BH a better lynch than him? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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I'm not willing to lynch the following people: Prome, chaoser, Vivax, WoS, hiro, i would maybe even put sloosh, shirokami and prplhz into that list. I just realized sloosh had a case on me, i will be answering it later today too. ##Vote: ObviousOne | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote: How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all. In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: (1)This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. (2)Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. (3)Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. (4)Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet 1) No it's not. It's an opinion that i expressed as simple as it was possible. I think claiming miller in a setup where the number (or existance) of millers is not known is stupid or scum. 2) The bolded part you quoted; I think as town you should play as pro-town as possible, right? Cops do not check people they think are town right? I didn't understand why DP, at the start of the game, was worried about being checked by a cop. For me it seemed like he was scum who was afraid of being checked. I hope you get what i mean. 3 and 4) As is said, i unfortunately have limited time. I was not interested in kitaman at that time, i did not know what to make of him calling WoS scum that early in the game, so i ignored it. I wanted to hear more from DP, and wanted him to do something else than to defend himself. Everyone was discussing him at that moment, i wanted to know what else than his claim was on his mind. If i got something else to clarify to you, ask me. About why i am voting for OO: What Prome said about OO and OO having an explanation to the DP night kill. In top of that DP was suspicious of OO, makes sense. Another thing that's very very odd from OO: OO called me out for meta reasons. I then posted in thread that i have a tight work schedule. What does OO answer: On May 14 2013 03:04 ObviousOne wrote: Oh does this mean you are more busy than last game, Rayn? I'll keep that in mind then. As far as my comment, it's exactly what it said. You asked a shit load of questions last game as town and it worked very well for a) me seeing that we were having similar thought processes and b) you generated a lot of things to analyze by prodding people. I wasn't seeing that from you so far here but if that's due to a change in your schedule then that potentially changes my expectations of town you in this scenario. In my opinion this has nothing to do with meta, at all. If i post less i post less, but i still act as i usually do whatever my alignment is. OO is dropping his meta scum-read on me because of my work schedule. How does that make sense? Right, it doesn't, unless he knows i'm town and made up a meta read on me before i was even able to fully contribute to anything but DP-stuff. shiro: You are saying that if WoS is town i am scum. How does that make sense? Are you saying i am not able to form town reads on people other people think is scum? I have given my reasons why i think WoS is town, are they bullshit? Elaborate please. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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What do you think of Oats' list? Anything you don't agree with in there? I can see some things that are plain out wrong just by reading the thread. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 15 2013 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, aside from it being slightly summarize-y, which is to be expected considering he was asked for thoughts on EVERY player, it at least gives reads of most of the players. Like if there were a lot more null reads and wifflewaffle then I'd be more concerned. Obviously there's something specific you don't like, was there something I should be looking at? To me it looks like a genuine attempt to put his thoughts in the thread, done by request. Especially his reasoning for his read on me, chaoser and prpl. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On May 15 2013 03:37 WaveofShadow wrote: @Rayn I like your play this game so much more than other games I've been in with you and it almost worries me. I don't think you could be anything but town atm though. What are your thoughts regarding VE and Oats' suspicion of him (dropped it once again after thinking he looked scummy without VE having posted anything in between). I like the case on Oats and since he still hasn't shown up to be useful like I want him to, I'm comfortable voting him. I'm less comfortable with the knowledge that there are scum on my wagon; the problem is I don't know which they are (not that anyone has listened to any push of mine thus far anyway). I'll hold off my change of vote for a little while though and give BH a sporting chance to try to cook up 5 more people (or however many it is with the Oats vote-stealing thing) since he doesn't seem to want to attempt anything other than be useless and tunnel me all day. If he can't get them soon I move my vote to OO and he'll have to find another person. CHALLENGE ON I don't like VE atm. Particularly because he called Oats' list "interesting". That says nothing and he has yet to answer my question about it. I totally misread VE last game at first, i need to interact more with him to form a read on him. That's what i'm doing atm. As i said earlier, i like Oats as lynch (although atm i prefer OO). His list contains some weird stuff that's plain out wrong or the conclusions are odd. Other than that his play does not seem like usual Oats town play. I don't think his 180 on VE is a scumtell though, he does that much as town. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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