EPTUnless that ends up being the case though~ /obs
Newbie Mafia XL
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Unless that ends up being the case though~ /obs | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Time to realize that actually playing games gives a similar sensation to ranked anxiety and after this one I likely stop for another 9 newbies to play in 50, or something equally ridiculous~ but atm, seems I've forgotten that feeling and have temporarily taken leave of my senses wheeee | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
The curse of the obzerver is such that I hesitated for several minutes before deciding to compliment the flavor :l Posting is too hard. Public Service Announcement; I'm moving today - if I'm not as active as desired, sorry. I'll try to get internet and be able to play tonight so hopefully it won't be noticeable that I wasn't here at game start, just wanted to mention this before role PMs go out. ^_^;; + Show Spoiler + And another several minute pause. | ||
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Obzy
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(As an aside, the last game's activity was low enough to get me to think "Well, maybe I can contribute on that scale." lets see if i'm right i guess ;x) so commenting on what's been said thus far~ I definitely think talking about policy is worth it at the beginning, 100% to get people posting. Look at the difference between my previous game (XXX) and XXXIX; Night 1 falling on page 50 compared to page 12. Admittedly, lots of discussion in that thread was just spammy, but it really helped town build opinions on people as opposed to where very few things are said, and it's kind of a crapshoot. I honestly would rather talk about policies that I legitimately think are stupid in order to help drive conversation and help people start talking about things, as opposed to sitting back. (that all said - if we have other things to discuss then policy can go to the side.) | ||
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Obzy
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(Of course, the best option is if we can just identify somebody scummy ^^) | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:45 Rainbows wrote: My point. Keep in mind the following question isn't policy-based. Let's say we have this one guy, super emotional, yelling at people, voting all over the place. Call him guy A. Guy B is cool, suave, making decent points here and there, voting is in line with his thinking. Guy C is hardcore lurking are barely here, but won't get modkilled because he votes. Guy D is kinda wimpy, and sheeps cases but is also hard to read. Who do we lynch? Honestly, you'd hope that there's somebody who isn't any of these. Person A is driving town discussion, person B is trying to be logical, and ideally, clear in his thought processes and not trying to hide information. Person C is sort of the classic lurker lynch, and we should try to help people avoid being person C. Person D is just a newbie who isn't clear on his thinking, and should be interacted with more (imho ^^) to help said person become easier to read. Sheeping cases doesn't really bother me much to be totally honest  But being hard to read is a problem. | ||
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Obzy
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Although I don't want to lynch lurkers, the reason is because I'd prefer we simply don't have lurkers lol. =0 Is anybody here or is it just me atm? Which is astounding, as an aside. In my other game, it wasn't possible for me to post twice in a row because it was so talkative heh. | ||
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So, a question to our four nonposters (that's JarJarDrinks, jampidampi, Warent, and nobodywonder) - What do you think of Sarif, as Rainbows just pointed out? He's only got one post, so just a gut reaction is acceptable. Just frigging post lol :3 Can't read someone that can't post. (And if Sarif feels like he needs to talk a bit more as a result; as opposed to just letting us chew on his single policy thought, more's the better  The idea isn't just to toss out the policy, it's to discuss it! (imo))+ Show Spoiler + On sarif... Rainbows, I'm less bothered about what he said and more so in that it's all he said. (I don't really intend on placing a vote until day 2, as an aside.) His first bit about policy being a nifty thing to discuss is good imho, but his second part? >_> By that logic, I'm spamming! Would the thread honestly be better if it had just remained relatively quiet? Even assuming I'm actually useless and what I'm saying isn't really interesting to anyone, even the Obz thread viewers, I still think that talking is useful, as long as it's not vitriolic and looking for fights. Discussion is good. Being an asshole, of course, is not - but discussion is definitely good. Tossing this in a spoiler in case the other four happen to not check it and give us their thoughts first ^^ | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Jrkirby, I think it's Plurality - 'Voting Rules: 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses).' - If it was majority, then a tie could not occur, since two players can't both have a majority. Saraf - Alright, sounds good. Please share what your findings are regarding people that comment on your thoughts when you return! Jampi - Welcome! Rainbows' post looks like it's just to generate conversation without dwelling on policy discussion, but he certainly may have a different reason that he'll toss out when he reads. *shrug~* | ||
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Anyone have any questions for me? ^^ I'm significantly happier answering them, as opposed to asking them. So Jampi - you're against any and all policies whatsoever? I'm sure that one could be found that you agree with, so you clearly only mean a subset of policies. What specifically were you thinking of? (I likely agree with you, just wondering if you had any in mind outside the normal-ish-seeming lurker lynch, etc.) I think it was reasonable [rainbows' questioning] - at the very least, it's a way to reach out to people that are quiet with a question. I was helped enormously by people asking questions in my first game, (and to be honest, I _still_ really like being asked questions. They really encourage me to post instead of mulling over my own thoughts.) | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:00 jrkirby wrote:I don't want to lynch all the lurkers just yet - kirby, does that mean you eventually do want to lynch all the lurkers? :l | ||
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Obzy
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Something I did a lot of in the previous game was looking at everyone's opinions of each other - like, if person A considers person B town, and so does C, D, E, F - and nobody considers them mafia, I marked it as being a "safe townread for the town." Whereas the two scum were both seen as scummy by the town as a whole, and the eventual (mis  )lynch was a townie whom everybody seemed to be null, leaning null-er on. This wouldn't've been possible without townreads being made available; so again, does anybody have any thoughts?+ Show Spoiler + Mafia wants to provide as little information as possible. Town wants to be informed to make correct decisions. Townreads get shot for being unlynchable townreads, which I gather is the reason that giving out your townreads could be seen as "bad".. - but is that all that bad, really? After all, it narrows down the lynch pool, one would think. [Personal thoughts ^_^;;] | ||
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although I sort of fail to see how splash damage can come from lurkers, given that in a mafia game a lurker is more like a stop lurker that just never un-stops but you have to eliminate all units of the enemy player because they refuse to gg and this is being stretched too far. And okay jampi, I agree with being against policy lynches, for the most part. | ||
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Obzy
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man i just really hope we don't have lurkers haha i feel like my opinion is bouncing back and forth. + Show Spoiler + So if lurkers are bad, and don't post after a few days... we lynch them. But that means that scum could just be posting semi-regularly and we'll kill ourselves. But if we don't lynch lurkers after a few days then we're letting non-contributors get by and scum could just as easily not contribute which is actually worse lol. The only real solution is just to have no lurkers >.< Regardless of whether or not we want to policy or not policy lynch or ignore them or whatever, being active is better for town, in my opinion. And in all likelihood, we will not reach a level of activeness that is "too" spammy in this game. On March 26 2013 08:06 Hapahauli wrote: This is a pretty bad idea to spread around this early. Our first concern should be making sure that everyone's active, and not trying to warn people against activity. If things get too spammy, that's a luxury that we can deal with when the time comes. And hell I like 150 page Day 1's. It puts pressure on both scum and town to do additional work, and I'm pretty confident in getting a good lynch under those circumstances. From RED Team's Prize - I can't say much for 150 page day 1s -.- but posting a lot is good, not bad. (I just happened to remember this post ^^) | ||
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Obzy
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If scum are blatantly taking charge and leading the town directly into bad decision making, that should be a signpost to us that town isn't being led very well =P Also, my expectation is more in line that if we all play actively and intelligently, the scum's pointing at townies and calling them mafia will look... dumb and out of place >.>; If everyone in town has a townread on everyone else in town, what can scum do? Also, good night since you're apparently taking off ^^ I'm going to take off as well - I want to go get some dinner, and then going to go to bed unless somebody directs a question at me - I'll check the thread after eating but unless something really sticks out I am just gonna go to sleep lol. JarJar, Warent, come join us :0 Smancer, Ravens, nobody - share your thoughts when you have time to read and respond ^^ Anybody look good or bad? See you all tomorrow unless you have a specific question for me when I get back.~ | ||
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Obzy
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I don't really like Warent's vote on Rainbows. Honestly, I sort of dismissed the early votes because they didn't mean much to me - it felt like it was too early for serious votes [even including Rainbows specifically saying his vote, at one point, was serious] - it did, however, make me feel that Rainbows was more likely to be townish than not (at that point in time). Most of the votes seem tentative - in a "Well, for now, he's a reasonable choice" way. If I had to pick a scumread, at the moment, it would be Warent for his vote and justification - things may change, though. I haven't really had the focus to read the thread in depth, rather than just looking at the surface. + Show Spoiler + Was slightly manic yesterday so my posting was sort of... unfocused and spammish - -; Apologies apologies etc etc. jrkirby - Hopefully you're willing to expand on your possible scumread later today, assuming they post reasonably. ^^ (nobodywonder, I don't really get how you could actively think a person is noncommittal with the little posting that's happened - everyone seems sort of noncommittal, and voting feels more like testing the waters at this point.) I'm a little perplexed as to how JarJar was able to walk in, vote, and walk out without anybody finding it worth mention. jkirby, what do you have to say about his comments? (I'll try to be on throughout the day, but I might not be back for a little while. Will answer any questions directed to me when I get back.) | ||
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I think smancer and jampi have been playing in a protown manner, and Saraf's few posts have seemed townie, but he really needs more of them :l (Posts, that is!) I haven't looked at Rainbows' filter carefully yet, but my initial thought on him lined up with smancer's comment - not a good lynch today, atm. (maybe that'll change once I read his filter - will comment if it does lol.) I don't think his vote on Saraf makes an enormous amount of sense, because reading from the beginning, Saraf's first post feels like it in no way attempts to call out Rainbows, and rain took it as a soft-accusation. In that light, Warent, the reason that I didn't like your vote and justification is because it felt like Rainbows was solidly somebody to not worry about today, and you came in late enough that the initial salvo of joke votes, random votes, thread-starters had already occurred. When you came in, Rainbows was the vote leader (somehow -_-; ), and it looked to me like you were jumping in and making a case on an active player who had votes, I disliked that thread entrance quite a bit. (Specifically, the line "And I'm not alone" sort of caught me. Why does it matter, as an opening post? If there was a wagon forming after much discussion - sure. I like the power of numbers and agreement and stuff. But at that timing.... enhnhnnn) uh, other thoughts... no real read on jarjar, just tunneling kirby. I'll have to read kirby before I know if this is okay or not ^^ | ||
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I don't know what to think of Raven. He hasn't really posted enough - only his last two posts have content I care about; Why does he think Saraf called Rain an asshole and an idiot? "even if the spammiest asshole is just some poor well-meaning fattie" - how is that implying Rain, unless it's taken for granted that Rain is a spammy asshole? >_>;;; Also, how did Rain interpret it to be calling him out? - -; w/e. I would like to see Raven post more. Raven, are you implying that nobodywonder is town (haven't read him yet, will form an opinion momentarily) with this post? On April 06 2013 03:06 TheRavensName wrote: Seeing as how this is the third game now where NW has been a scummy read day one... have we ever wondered if NW just isn't that bright/isn't that good? I think NW just isn't that great and just makes mistakes and poor judgements that never seem to go well for him. Just curious rainbows: Do you think Saraf or Nobodywonder has a higher chance of being scum, seeing as how right now the way I read it based off that wording is that you yourself are now voting for a guy you think might be town compared to a guy you think is scummy. You seem like you're trying to point out that Rain's vote on Saraf is suspect, but that Nobodywonder is just a newb and not scum, but _also_ that he should be looking towards Nobodywonder instead of Saraf, who you think is town? I don't like it :x Please post more hehe. - -; I'm not following your reasoning, and that's all you've got atm. (Continuing to read.) | ||
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Moloch is absent. He needs to post more, and I dislike his rainbows vote. It's been 16 hours though, maybe he'll show up and provide some insight, reads, or justification of something or other. Nullish I guess lol. I don't even know what to say to him because he's not here and I dislike his vote - different from Warent, because when Moloch disappeared, he had already discussed voting Rainbows before Warent even showed up- and then Warent shows up and votes Rainbows? *shrug.* I would like to see him post more. | ||
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(What I mean by this is I don't have a problem with Jampi's filter _at the moment_, but that's assuming he changes his behavior. If his behavior remains unchanged, /shrug.) | ||
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On Nobodywonder - Ehn. He's a bit harsher than others? (Although I haven't done a proper read of Rain yet! hehe.) He seems to be tossing out a lot of suspicion, but it may just be the posting style. Rain and Smancer at first, and then Kirby where his vote lies.. But what does he actually think about Rain or Smancer? it looked more like banter than anything, also some defensiveness when mentioned by Smancer but nothing actually said. (And the Kirby vote is totally out of left field.) When he comes back, I'd like to see what he has to say about everyone - particularly the three of them, since he managed to talk about the first two without a read, and the situation with Kirby has changed since he mentioned who his candidate was. Rainbows - the only two page filter! Yay! [although now that I checked, I just bled into two pages too - -;] Only his last five posts actually matter much, though - anybody drawing conclusions on him before those posts, I disagree with heh. -->>> ugh my phone just went off and I have to leave the internet for an undetermined time. I will finish my thoughts on Rain once I get back, and again, answer any questions and look over any new developments. Hope my thoughts help! =/ It's time consuming to do so if nobody wants me to do them I'd be just as happy to play games instead -_- My current guesses include fish/smancer townyish, saraf/jampi are townish but need to post more, slight scum lean to Warent and Raven. I think the explanations are above, but if somebody disagrees, feel free to yell at me and state your own opinion! That's largely what I'm looking for anyways :3 | ||
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Obzy
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So the last person for me to look at for now is Rain. You can seriously skip his entire first page of filter, it feels to me like it's entirely banter, random votes, discussion about disliking policy and a question that's "kinda like but not really" policy and discussion of nothing important. Just start on page two IMHO. And having read it, there really isn't much to say. He's just in defensive mode with regards to Saraf. He's honestly quite a bit nuller than I remember thinking as compared to how I mentally had registered him while going through everybody else's filters, but I really don't like lynching him largely because he was the vote leader at first, and he's sort of just been futilely omgusing at Saraf. >_>; It's day 2, we should start looking to consolidate. If somebody is lynched with two votes, I will rip my hair out -_- Although Kirby's scumminess meter is a little... silly ^^;, that really is the sort of thing I would like to see, that his apparent scumreads are Jarjar, Jampi, nobody, and maybe Rain. I feel like commenting on this sort of opinion helps town, since we can discuss the lynch and narrow it down onto a favored candidate. I'll toss in that I definitely prefer not lynching Rain today, for the above reasons. (Perhaps tomorrow, or later - things could always change - but definitely not today. At the moment, I would like to lynch out of a pool that includes everyone _other than_ Smancer, Fish, Rain, me, and Kirby. More detailed posting from everybody else would be terrific, although I will (of course) not say no to detailed posting from ye other four ^^ Specifically, I would like some general reads. A full list isn't entirely necessary, but we should consider beginning to consolidate IMHO, and I don't like our current two vote leaders as lynches right now. (@War)+ Show Spoiler + almost forgot lol. I think your case is focusing on Rain's first posts, and I think that Rain's first posts are not alignment indicative. Is that a satisfactory answer? If not, I guess I'd like you to be more specific in your case against him, or convince me that his first few posts ARE alignment indicative, instead of their assumed purpose being to attempt to drive discussion. ^^ | ||
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##Vote TheRavensName Lastly, I'm not very happy with how he disappeared in the ten minutes between his last post today and Rainbow's case without a response for multiple hours. + Show Spoiler + If you're sick, hope you feel better soon. :0 Doesn't make you any less scummy though ^^ | ||
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Ravens - Even if Rain is wrong, it doesn't make him scum. I've mentioned multiple times I think he would be a bad lynch today, and a vote on him doesn't help much. Do you have anybody (that happens to not be one of my townreads heh) that you can make a convincing case on? + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't really expect it of anyone here, it'd be such a silly thing to lie about ^^ I'm trying to not let them affect my reads, though, since an excuse doesn't really justify in-game behavior. I really like BH's viewpoint on this, although I'm nowhere near as hardcore hehe. Get better~ Kk saw that Raven had posted very shortly after me so I didn't take off to play games immediately, but I am going to do so now! | ||
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Obzy
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Lynching Rain tomorrow is exactly as bad an idea as it was before. If he's actually scum, scum can't use a roleblock, if one exists, until he dies. (since if they have it, they can't use it, and if they don't have it, then they don't have it.) If he sticks around for multiple days as a claimed townie then the likelihood of him being scum goes up considerably, but... -_- Ugh why did you claim? Lol there's no reasonable way you would've gotten lynched today unless we're fucked anyways. grr ._. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 , this line is something I think back to quite regularly - "The worst way to play day 1 is with apathy and disinterest and lynch the most outspoken/controversial player, who is never going to be mafia." -_- If you don't think that Rainbows is the most controversial and outspoken player, you are outright incorrect. I'd be delighted if there was a recent votecount so I could tell everybody voting him to vote someone else instead, but there isn't a recent one. So instead - Vote someone else instead. Jesus =0 At least unvote while you think about it so Rain doesn't blow a fucking blood vessel in his head or something ^^ Talk to the coaches or something. I'm fairly confident in this, and will be unhappy to eat my words if I end up being wrong, but seriously, I feel like he is a horrible day1 lynch! More to follow I guess although i had hoped to relax a lil lol | ||
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On the flip side, I guess I feel like Moloch has strongly joined my list of town-reads, so that's something out of this. Jampi, I will get to your case in a moment. And if you seriously rage-quit just because; I will seriously be angry. | ||
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On April 06 2013 15:03 jampidampi wrote: ##Vote: Rainbows Rainbows is really scummy. At the start, he had the opportunity to continue discussing what was being discussed, but instead he brings up this hypotetical question. Now what purpose does it serve? Scum could post this to know what kind of behaviour we find scummy. Town could post this to generate discussion. But I don't believe that. Rainbows had already got good discussion rolling about something that matters to town (policy). But instead he brings up something that can't benefit town. And there is no followup whatsoever. Trying to follow guidelines on what sort of behavior people find scummy is pointless, it's been well proven even in our newbie game that we are willing to adapt. Scumminess indicators are not a thing that are engrained since birth. I feel like he was just trying to generate conversation and promote a positive town atmosphere - in the same way that my first few posts, upon re-reading, look sorta pointless. I was trying to help get the thread started, so we didn't have an empty day 1 that we couldn't draw good conclusions from. Rainbows asked if Ravens was scum or VT. Blatant bluefishing. No scum would ever answear "Yes, I'm scum". If Ravens had claimed VT there, scum would know he isn't blue. Ravens may have in confusion softclaimed a powerrole there. I can't find any townie reasonin Rainbows would ask this question. Bluefishing!? How in the world did you get that? Literally no matter what, the proper answer is to say VT. If Ravens had claimed VT, scum would know that he claimed VT. If he's blue, he doesn't have to tell the truth! The question looked like meaningless banter; if it was malicious, it was incredibly shallow, and calling it Bluefishing is absurd in the extreme. (imo ^^) Rainbows says how he likes Obzy. If you look at any mafia games posts, when someone likes someone, he thinks that guy is town. Just look at the list posts in this game: "I don't like XXX" is used in contexes, where people think XXX is scummy. Yet when I ask him to explain his liking of Obzy, he says he liked the name and that he has posted a lot, when at the time, Obzy had three posts. If look at those three posts, that is not a good basis for a town read. Hehe I like being told that I'm liked though :0 It's motivating! Legitimately thinking that I was strongly town at that point may have been a bit much, but he didn't say that. I feel like you're trying to build a mountain out of a molehill here, and the connection is not as strong as you are making it out to be. Rainbows thinks he is the center of the thread and that he should be talked about. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 01:49 Rainbows wrote: You were summing up the thread because I was the only one doing things. On April 06 2013 12:36 Rainbows wrote: First post of the day. Neglects to comment on my play which I find exceedingly odd. I was pretty much the entire thread at that point. On April 05 2013 23:37 Rainbows wrote: A bunch of generic pro-town things being advocated. He provides a (bad) summary of events in the thread and... that's it. [snip] It is obvious that Saraf is referring to me here. I'm spamming, I'm doing a bunch of nuisance-like things and he doesn't like it. He says he would like to lynch me; even if I'm probably town. Saraf seems to know I'm town, because he refers to me as such and tells me how I should be playing. [snip] I digress, he's brought up the policy to 'lynch the spammiest asshole', but that in itself people are already talking about because I'm the center of discussion. So antagonisitic. On April 06 2013 12:12 Rainbows wrote: He didn't do anything of use early game. He was around, but chose to do nothing useful. He barely even talked to me, and pretty much ignored events in the thread. His real 'entrance' post to the thread is here: This scummy since Rainbows clearly cares his image. He cares that people see him as town. He cares enough to make a point of being the center of discussion. Scum care for their image. Here is another case of Rainbows caring about his image: Blues also care about their image, though, presumably. They're trying to act like they are just VTs, but without denying information to town. The only post which he brings up from nobodywonder is this one, where nobodywonder suspects Rainbows. [/quote]Rainbows is hellbent in his interpretating that Saraf called him town, even when multiple people have said that was not what Saraf intented to say. If Saraf is town, what Rainbow did was scummy, because he has more reasons to potentiaaly misslynch Saraf. If Saraf is scum, it's still scummy. Rainbows appears to put pressure on Saraf and if Saraf is ever on the chopping block, Rainbows can go "oh shit, my reasoning is really dump" and save him. And here, I think that if Rainbows was able to actually form a wagon on Saraf, it would have more to it than just this piece of information. It would be a terrific plan if they were scumbuddies and Rain had the amount of thread presence necessary to direct AND THEN UNDIRECT an entire lynch, several days in - but that's some tinfoil hat stuff right there. As such - I do not think that your case has merit. I'm not sure if it makes you scum or not, though - and I wish that Rain hadn't absolutely fucking exploded when you posted it lol. Does that answer the question to your satisfaction? In addition to everything I have already posted regarding Rainbow's innocence and my townread on him, I suppose I could also point out this - And these quotes are a pain to get - On April 05 2013 09:05 Rainbows wrote: ##Vote: TheRavensName On April 05 2013 09:18 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Smancer On April 05 2013 09:28 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote On April 05 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote: ##Vote: Smancer On April 05 2013 13:04 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Saraf On April 06 2013 12:12 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: TheRavensName On April 06 2013 15:21 Rainbows wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: Jampidamp On April 06 2013 16:02 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: TheRavensName If he is scum, why is he antagonizing everyone one at a time, writing cases whimsically and without warning, dropping them at a feather's touch - almost if not always because he himself decided another case was better? I'm not verbose enough to explain this in a poetic way, but he's too batshit crazy to be scum at this point in time. (In a good way ^^;; )(...Imo. =P) | ||
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Hi Warent~ I'll answer as best I can, then I'm gonna finish up this day9 vid and head to bed lol. Paused in part 3 ^^ That's correct, I don't mind that Rain completely misinterpreted Saraf's intent. I feel like everybody noticed this, and it was mentioned frequently (as Rain has been the center of attention), and Rain absolutely refused to re-read it and just kept trailblazing with different scumreads and hasn't looked back. Not really a way that I'd desire to play, personally - but I don't really think that there can be a meaningful distinction drawn between town and scum for misinterpreting something like that and never looking back. + Show Spoiler + And if there was one, it would be that scum wouldn't fail to correct something that seemed sort of obvious lol. Regarding Raven - the thing that sort of clicked with me was the meta argument - I mean, he was one of the players that I was content with lynching at the time (and still am, of course - at the moment) due to not being a solid townread, and my townreads have the votes atm -_-;; Rain's argument is reasonable, but really boils down to "He's got no reads (that I like and respect and stuff)." The line "I hate to meta people, but TRN in previous games was active, scumhunting, and voted early Day 1. He's reserving his vote right now which irks me. He has done no scumhunting this game and is teetering on the edge of null on everybody." made me look at the activity level in his previous game, and it looked quite different - and I didn't want to take excuses into account. I will try to (if I don't get lazy) take a more in-depth look at his posts in the previous game compared to his posts here tomorrow, ignoring the activity level due to his illness - but I'm not much good at detailed analysis lol. My metric was activity level, which is potentially flawed, if the activity dropoff is entirely due to illness. Even if I ended up concluding "Well, I guess I can't tell the difference between the games :["... That would just convince me that I was bad at metaing people, and he STILL didn't have any reads, so he's still the same level of scumread as any others. I'll try to be able to speak more accurately about the difference in his play this game and his play last game tomorrow, if i don't get annoyed at the time investiture lol. If someone else wants to do it that'd be terrific  sigh my internet went out last night at like 1:18 and i finished writing up this message at like 1:25 and it's 1:45 and I fucking quit I'm going to bed I'll post this when I get up tomorrow and then I'll read the thread. But to re-emphasize on what I think your post starting on page 18 was - I did indeed notice the same thing everyone else did regarding Rain's Saraf mistake, and I still don't really get how people apparently went "Ah, a clear mistake. He must be scum." *shrug* anyways going to bed. you should get this tomorrow morning [for me. quite a bit later for you. my apologies ]So last night I wrote this post and then my internet went out - I spent a bit trying to fix it and then gave up and went to bed. It's a response to Warent's questions - I haven't read past his first post on page 18 yet, i'll go ahead and do that now lol. just got up. | ||
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Obzy
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##Unvote TheRavensName ##Vote JampiDampi I still haven't gone over your filter from last game ^^ Until I do, my thoughts on meta might just be wrong, and in that case, you're merely lurking and being elusive like several other people. Jampi, though - But why didn't continue talking about the things discussed then and instead brought up something else that doesn't serve a purpose? None of it served a purpose. When I look at Rainbows' filter, everything before On April 05 2013 13:19 Rainbows wrote: Now that the abhorrent spamming is over by me, I want everyone to grace us with their presence asap. Talk about what little has occured so far, or anything. I pretty much think is pointless and non-alignment-indicative. Fluffy, yes. Trying to get the thread started and encourage rather than shut down conversation? Also yes. It doesn't really matter whether or not he kept talking about the same useless things, and instead introduced something else useless, IMO. Can you explain why a townie would ask that question? There is no way the answear is going to be alignment indicative in any way. I think he was just bantering. It sounded like the sort of thing that debears/mr.cc were chatting about back in forth in my first game, newbie XXX, and they were both town. He himself implied that it was a townread at the time. Well, cool. I guess I'm supertown then. I don't see how something like that would make him scum, in any case - -; Being seen as town != being seen as VT. If a blue seems like a VT, how the heck does he claim if it comes to that? And blues know they are on the towns side, se they don't need to care to look like town. It comes naturally. Scum on the other hand, do care that they are seen as townie. They need to survive and not be lynched. They have a fear that people think they are scum. So they care that people see them as town. Heh. If a blue seems like a VT, he won't need to claim. The only ones worried about whether or not their actions will permit them to claim blue are scum, since they would expect to eventually HAVE to claim. Real blues shouldn't need to claim. (Unless you're Rainbows and go insane and claim too early and maybe ragequit. hehe :l) Does his response to my case look like a townies response? He is overemotional and instantly OMGUSSES me. He missinterprets my logic. He clearly feels the pressure but still calls the case BS. How is this a townie response? In my first game, when someone made a case on me that (in retrospect) was clearly misinterpreting the facts, I absolutely blew up at him and panicked. Overemotional, immediate omgus, I completely ignored his logic, which was a little silly because as I was VT, it couldn't've been perfect ^^ - Why the heck would I call that a scumtell when I have done it myself? lol Regarding Rain on Saraf - it amuses me that in your last paragraph, you say that his vote on Saraf was unserious, but in your other paragraph I didn't specifically quote, you say that his vote on Saraf was to set up for later. At this point, I would rather vote you than Ravens. I'll tell you the same thing I'd like to tell all people I am voting - If you don't want me to think you're scum, find me a scum that's not one of my townreads and convince me and everybody else that they are scum. If it's good enough, logical enough, etc - then we'll hit scum, and you'll survive an additional day. And if you can't do that without hitting my townreads, you're the lynch. :3 | ||
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On April 07 2013 02:31 Warent wrote: Sadly I'm on my way out... but yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting on his mistake, perhaps - but I still fail to see how you can be so darn certain he is town. He's my strongest townread. I could always be wrong, I've only played one game before. But I'll eat my hat [I do not own a hat] if he is not town. Lynching my strongest townread is something INCREDIBLY STUPID lol. Honestly, I don't like the votes on Kirby either! I explained that quite some time ago, On April 06 2013 10:55 Obzy wrote: At the moment, I would like to lynch out of a pool that includes everyone _other than_ Smancer, Fish, Rain, me, and Kirby. More detailed posting from everybody else would be terrific, although I will (of course) not say no to detailed posting from ye other four ^^ Specifically, I would like some general reads. A full list isn't entirely necessary, but we should consider beginning to consolidate IMHO, and I don't like our current two vote leaders as lynches right now. here and a few posts back, where I note that I didn't have a solid read (town or scum - I think he posted in between, because I originally wrote "me, and surprisingly Kirby" and deleted it cause it looked dumb) on Kirby at the time. As a result, I do not like where JarJar, Nobodywonder, Warent, RavensName, and Jampi have placed their votes - If my vote-target doesn't change, that's fine, scum can put their vote on my townreads. I can give that permission I suppose But you other 3-4 ought to change. I'm less certain that Kirby is a bad lynch compared to Rain, but he's definitely, definitely worse than Jampi is right now. | ||
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On April 06 2013 22:26 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows giving Obzy a townread based on Obzys first three posts doesn't matter? And like half of Rainbows cases were really bad. Look at his case on Saraf. A bunch of missinterpretings and lies. His case on nobodywonder? Picks up one post, says that nobodywonder doesn't have a read on Rainbows, when wonder gave his read on him in the post Rainbows bought up. Rainbows calls out Ravens for not giving his opinion on nobodywonder, even though Ravens called him dump town. And do you think Rainbows reacted to my case in a townie way? Absolutely, I think he reacted in a townie way. Not necessarily in a pro-town way, mind you! But DEFINITELY in a townie way haha. I don't want to see Saraf's opinion on rainbows, Ravens. I want to see Saraf's opinion on basically anybody else haha. If his opinion on Rain isn't that he's town, then wth tbth ^^ And lastly since Warent just posted - I didn't really expect you to move your vote - -; But you've seemed mildly scummy so whatever. I don't want to lynch for information when we could lynch for killing Jampi >.> I don't really think that waiting until Rain's flip matters a ton to be honest lol! If he's town, then OBVIOUSLY you guys look bad - but you already look bad! :x And if he's scum, then the guilty parties to look at are myself, smancer, and fish - strong townreads of mine, and I think, everybody else too. Yes yes things are constantly in need of re-evaluation and all - but phrasing it that way tries to strengthen the argument of lynching for information, which is just stupid. Why would you want to lynch a non-counter-claimed blue, who claimed in the middle of the day many hours before the lynch before afking, on day 1? I'll be around intermittently guys - If Rainbows gets more votes I am going to be quite cross, ahaha. -_- And I quite think that the votes he has, have no business being on him. | ||
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Although maybe he would counterclaim him if it looked like Rain wasn't going to be lynched and he wanted to use his shot somewhere else so really it's not entirely solid. A good point, though. ^^; I concur that I would like to see Jarjar post more - and I'd like to see nobodywonder's take on this, since he's currently still on Kirby as well. (Honestly, I'd like to see Kirby's input too.) I think that they're the last few that haven't taken a stance given the new information - if I'm forgetting someone, they also need to take a stance - -;. | ||
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On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: Is there anything aside from my case/tunnel on Rainbows that makes me scummy? That was the biggest thing for me. Besides that - you hadn't given out any non-Rain related reads. Additionally, people whom I think are townie, Fish, Smancer, and Moloch, are voting you - and the votes on Jarjar are because he's lurking and not posting. I looked into jampi's past game and saw that he gave out town reads early - and then was apparently told by his coaches to not share weak townreads, so I guess his lack of reads in that regard makes a little more sense. Honestly, your last post troubles my read lol. On the one hand, Jarjar quite legitimately does feel like you're sort of hopping out there to kill him without him being around. On the flip side, you gave out mafia reads with reasoning, changed your stance that was the primary thing I disliked, and started looking at a couple of other people. I want Jarjar to post more. I'll consider switching my vote, if Fish, Smancer, or Moloch agrees that he's a viable lynch, if he doesn't show up at all, or if his appearance is stupid... - it feels a little derpy bouncing from my current scumread to a lurker based largely on my scumread's vote, though. | ||
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On April 07 2013 06:16 jrkirby wrote: Obzy: I want a good explaination why you prefer jampidampi over jarjar. JarJar: if you show up, I want to see your reads on everyone. So you better show up fast, cause there's a lot to read. Concisely - Jarjar is just a lurker, and jampi seemed scummy because his case on Rainbows was bad (I had been defending rainbows, I think, even before this) - also, because jampi had not contributed any non-Rain related reads. He had bounced some questions around, but had not indicated his thoughts towards other people (iirc). Now that he's changed that, I'm less sure. | ||
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Jarjar may _also_ be a good lynch, it's hard to tell right now. Jampi was a good lynch before he responded, and I don't know if he's just handling himself in a way to try to get pressure off of him now, or if he just had been too tunneled. I would like to hear what the other jampi voters have to say, regarding how he has reacted to the votes on him. | ||
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On April 07 2013 05:50 jampidampi wrote: If you are lynching me for doing nothing, why aren't you lynching JarJar? If you are lynching me for bad cases, why aren't you lynching Rainbows? I'm not lynching you for doing nothing, so I'll answer the second one: Rainbows' cases and aggressiveness have been directed towards people that have acted scummily - or at least, were not specifically townie IMHO. Your case was directed at Rainbows, who I had identified (imo, reasons in thread) as town. The fact that you made a bad case on my townread was the problem. If you had made a bad case on somebody scummy - I think the reaction would have been different. Rainbows, at that point in time, was not thought to be as townie as I thought he was by the thread as a whole - he would be a fairly safe target to make a case on (had he not reacted so vehemently, and I had not defended him so strongly, IMO). Your case on rain is and was the problem, and if you're dropping that, I'm less sure. You could be dropping it because it's the problem, and you could also be dropping it because you have identified it as being bad. I can't tell which, so I am hoping one of my townreads has new insights. (If that makes any sense. lol - -; ) | ||
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nobodywonder, your vote is on Kirby. Why? Who would you prefer out of the two listed above? Warent, Ravens - your votes on Rainbows are stupid and that's sort of all I have to say about them -_- Sorry lol JarJar, get posting. Your content can't even be called that, you are a lynch candidate entirely because you have posted so little. I'm going to read into his profile and see if he acts similarly in other games - although like I think I mentioned awhile ago, I have no idea how the heck to use meta so it's more just an exercise to stay interested while I wait for somebody to respond to me. We have two hours before the lynch and only a couple people are actually around! Lets please fix this? (hi Smancer, will read your posts once I toss this out.) | ||
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- That, being how he mentioned two people - and rainbows specifically, after unvoting him. On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: So upon rereading, I can see how Rainbows might be a townie. So since there are more suspicious people than him: ##Unvote On April 07 2013 05:50 jampidampi wrote: If you are lynching me for bad cases, why aren't you lynching Rainbows? | ||
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" and leave it at that for today.The fact that there is opposition to the jampi lynch - although I hate confrontation; + Show Spoiler + so why the hell am I playing a mafia game Kirby, I don't think the case was reasonable, because I have a townread on Rainbows. | ||
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Me, trying to motivate the thread, think rationally, critically, and attempt to listen to others, Rainbows, who has claimed Vigilante and rage-quit, and JarJar, who is lurking and everyone admits is lurking, First off, I would be perfectly happy to omgus you for that, but this isn't the time for shenanigans - I'd rather vote Jampi atm. Second off, this is the first time you've mentioned me in a negative light - honestly, it's the first reason anybody has mentioned me in a negative light, I think xD maybe i'm forgetting someone I don't really have much to say with regards to making association cases with unflipped players - I don't think it's wise, though. If Rainbows is eventually lynched and found to be scum, then I admit my culpability and foolishness. If JarJar is lynched and found to be scum - Great! It was a shot in the dark, a lucky twist based on the fact that _we can not really read him._ We are reading Jampi. How can you be the most confident on a lurker? I don't necessarily disagree with the possibility of JarJar being scum, but I think that Jampi is a much surer thing. On association, + Show Spoiler + If Jampi flips scum, you look much worse, and JarJar looks a bit better. Better still, if you also later flip scum. I don't want to accuse you until we see that, though - Association with unflipped players and all. If you are town, and legitimately think I am scum - Go ahead and ask me questions, test my reactions, get my opinions - I've made every effort to be open, to help the thread get going and to help guide town towards the players that I think are scummy. I have some scumreads and townreads and have made them very clear, but if you or any other players would like additional clarity, I would be happy to grant it. I think you're accusing me because I'm not movable from the Jampi lynch at this point, have been very vocal regarding Rain's innocence, and have stated that I do not intend to vote JarJar today. | ||
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I think I need an hour or so cool down. My mind is spinning in circles and I can't have clear thoughs. I might be tunneling Rainbows hardcore and maybe thats why everything he does and says adds up as scummy in my mind. If you have something you want me to address, leave it in the threas. Will be back in an hour or maybe a little less. At this point, he had not posted for a significant amount of time - and returns to say that he needs to calm down. After one hour, he returns to reread the thread. After 45 minutes, he removes his vote from Rainbows and votes Jarjar, a lurker. So - what happened in that 4 hour period before he returned to say that he needed to calm down, since he apparently had been raging for 4+ hours? Specifically, in the 30 minutes from 2:36 to 3:05, he picked up votes from myself, Fish, and Moloch. Sounds like a good reason to suddenly about-face! Jampi feels like a surer thing than Jarjar. jarjar STILL hasn't posted! =/ | ||
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I really don't think a panic switch is going to reap results :l (Particularly onto anybody other than Jampi or Jarjar.) And out of those two, I prefer Jampi. @Fish - Yes, that definitely sounds legitimate to me. If he needed to "calm down", he would have calmed down well before the votes for him materialized. The timing makes no sense, it feels (looking back) like he was stalling for time, and looking at how to extract himself from the situation. | ||
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Warent, you are quite correct - my primary thought was that Rain was town, and pretty much everything was somehow shaped around that. Honestly, since he hasn't been here - there isn't exactly information that shows me he ISN'T still town. Jampi flipped, and had unvoted Rain. + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: So upon rereading, I can see how Rainbows might be a townie. So since there are more suspicious people than him: ##Unvote These suspicious people are JarJarDrinks and Saraf. We'll start with JarJar. All JarJar has done this game is call jrkirby scum. His read seems to be an overreaction to jrkirbys early vote on Rainbows. JarJar seems to think that jrkirby in his reasonin post kept his vote on Rainbows even if he thinks Rainbows is bad town. But to me jrkirbys vote reads more as a pressure vote: if Rainbows doesn't stop being stupid jrkirby will lynch him. Then he reads Rainbows as town because jrkirby is scum, but in the same post implies that Rainbows might be scum since in JarJars last game Rainbows totally fooled him as scum. Saraf on the other hand started the game with some policy discussion. Not alignment indicative per se, but he has done very little of something else. He called Rainbows suspicious for missiterpreting his posts, but that can as easily be seen as being defensive. Saraf called jrkirby suspicious for stating that he had a hunch on someone being scum, but didn't mention who it was. This lines up with votes piling up on jrkirby, making it seem Saraf wanted to hop on the bandwagon. Then when he finally comes back, he fails to to call me, Rainbows and Ravens scum or town, just stating that we are not good lynches. He does have a good point on JarJar and is at least here giving his opinion on something. Out of the suspcious people here, I find JarJar the most suspicious. You can this a vote for survival or scum trying to save himself with an easy bandwagon, but I think he is the scummiest. ##Vote: JarJarDrinks Jampi's flip doesn't necessarily make Rain any more or less guilty seeming - Rain's non-presence might, but nothing has really changed regarding Rain. The lynch felt, to me, like it was more about Jampi - specifically, how his read felt misplaced. I wasn't able to detach myself enough from thinking that I disliked his case which prevented me from voting anybody else(JarJar), even though his(Jampi's) last couple of posts were significantly better - I concluded (wrongly) that he had adeptly changed his style to be something that I would find less scummy, a stupid mistake on my part. Jarjar still was just a lurker lynch IMHO. Exactly as before, he needs to get in here and post. I see that he mentioned sunday won't be good either - given that that will be night time, and the likelihood of him being shot by scum is effectively zero, that's acceptable to me as long as he is QUITE and I mean QUITE active on Monday. (Acceptable meaning - I will forgive him for his absence lol ^^ It isn't as simple as "doesn't show up, scum, shows up, town.") However, Warent - "he acts to stupid to be scum" is an IMMENSE simplification of why I thought (and think, although less vehemently) that Rain was/is town. I would like to think that I have written a lot, and also given you and everybody else as much useful information as I possibly could; although the latter part of day 1 was based on my Rain read, this is true. One thing I have to say - Although I feel like I bear a ridiculous amount of responsibility for the mislynch, defending Jampi is definitely something that scum could feel safe doing, due to the expected tenuousness of my (and the other Jampi voters') position after the mislynch occurred. I'll try to do looking into it myself, but as I'm not really confident in my abilities (for obvious reasons -_-;;;; ), it would be useful to analyze the stances of everybody as they related to Jampi during the lynch, whether individuals were attacking or defending him in a scummy manner. and sorry jampi :c | ||
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On April 07 2013 08:59 TheRavensName wrote: But I would have to vote for you to save him. And I like you more then him. Sorry. Ravens, what did you mean by this? You are implying that you like Kirby more than Jampi - sure, w/e - but why would you have to vote for Kirby =l You'd be voting for Jarjar. Am I getting confused over nothing? I think the way you acted pre-lynch was reasonably townie, it's just this post that confuses me. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + If Rainbows is real vig[my opinion], then he will likely not die tonight. He's the target of lots of reasonably justifiable suspicion, he afked catastrophically, I don't see why scum would kill him, they would just roleblock him and push/let him be pushed tomorrow. If Rainbows lied about being vig and is actually town, what the fuck i have no idea we can't tell the difference between this and vig until he flips so i guess if he flips VT it confirms him for being completely out of control and clueless? But it doesn't really change whether or not he'll die. If he's scum and there's no real vig, we actually can't tell the situation apart from the first one. He obviously won't die tonight, barring a Vivax-esqe play (shooting a scumbuddy and claiming vig), and he'll still be the target of suspicion. If he's scum and a vig shoots him - Awesome! It clears up town's biggest headache, and although I will look and feel like a complete idiot, killing scum is what's important, not my pride lol. The obvious choice for a real vig is to shoot Rainbows and reveal this, and truthfully I hope it's what happens, even though I think we are in the first situation outlined. I would be very surprised if he did not "live while getting roleblocked." Although I don't want him to get mislynched tomorrow, if he doesn't show up to defend himself/rejoin town discussion, i really can't be assed to defend him in absentia for multiple days -_- Basically all scenarios where rainbows dies are fair optimal for us, so scum will be certain to try to avoid them, imo. | ||
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Also - It bothers me that nobodywonder has acted effectively the same way that Jarjar has, but with far less attention given to him. It's been a day and a half lol. Jarjar needs to post more, this is well agreed upon - nobodywonder does too. Rainbows does too heh -_- | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 02:49 Fishgle wrote: holy shit. things are happening. First off - fuck you rainbows, for being such an arrogant emotional mess. Here's a tip: it's less about what you say, and more about how you depict it. You didn't make any friends because of your abrasive behavior. I understand you were forced to reveal so you wouldn't get lynched, but it was your own damn fault that everyone suspected you. second - fuck you rainbows, if you're actually abandoning the game. third - THERAVENSNAME, WARENT, JAMPIDAMPI why are your votes still on rainbows? Are you guys implying that rainbows' reveal was a fake? If it were fake, there's a huge chance someone would counter-reveal, making it a terrible move for scum. it just doesn't make any sense for him to be scum, no matter how badly he plays. 4th - i think obzy has done a good job explaining further reasons as to why it's unlikely that rainbows is scum. 5th - someone asked about a comment i made about a read on Moloch. disregard it. we have bigger fish to fry now. plus, it was an early-game hunch. Moloch's posts have gotten a lot more substantive and level-headed from since i got the read. 6th - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=18#345 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=12#231 I really think this is the best lead we have so far, coupled with the fact that he's still pushing a lynch on rainbows, who just revealed as the vigilante. ##Vote:jampidampi if I had to be suspicious of somebody on jampi, at the moment, it's smancer, not fish. his scum reads, I would've been quite happy with pre-lynch - now, I'm obviously a bit more skeptical - but I don't think that they make him scum, just reaching with the association to a jampi case. I'm more suspicious of Smancer than the other two, although they obviously all need to keep talking, along with everybody else ^^ Specifically regarding smancer; what's with the rainbows flip-flop? I'll admit, my own confidence was shaken - but really, does the jampi lynch change rainbows' situation? Rainbows wasn't even here for the majority of the jampi stuff. (Which is fucking bad, no doubt! But for Smancer to bring up rainbows after the fact? =l *shrug* Also not liking Jarjar for lurking - why not nobodywonder as well? Jarjar just happened to be the one being voted for lurking at that time. This isn't concrete, of course - but if I had to pick somebody on jampi's wagon that was actually scum, it would be Smancer, not Fish or Moloch. [Naturally, I am ignoring myself. ^^] Does anybody have any opinions on this? | ||
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if you're worried about getting killed, post in 40 minutes when the night action resolution period is occurring (assuming we have one) about your reads, don't just say "It depends" and wait :x Do we have a one hour night action resolution period this game? | ||
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I guess since it's the beginning of the day I'll say this now - -;, I don't intend to vote for Rain today. I also don't really intend to defend him. If he doesn't return in a timely manner, then he should probably be lynched because he isn't giving us anything to work with [Unless we have somebody that is identifiably more scummy than Rain is.] If he comes back, then it will depend. We also have nobodywonder and Jarjar lurking - I would like to see more from both of them, today. kirby, regarding your last post - it was almost guaranteed imho that Rain would survive the night unless we had another vigilante. Him not dying implies that: 1. we either do not have a vig, the vig was unluckily roleblocked, or an idiot doctor protected him despite the fact that Rain's death-by-night-kill-specifically would be rather convenient at this point in time. 2. He isn't fakeclaiming. Regardless of what he fakeclaimed, there could have potentially been a counter-claim - i specifically think vigilante would be a dangerous fakeclaim to make _because_ the real vig could just quietly off him, whetheras doctor would at least require a counterclaim to disprove in such a neat fashion. *shrug* | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:14 jrkirby wrote: Damn. Rainbows is still alive. Either he's actually vigilante or there is no vigilante. i used a lot of words to say a little - yes, i think this is likely correct. | ||
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Given that "All roleblocks will result in the target being notified." - should roleblocks claim? | ||
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don't read this unless you want to hear me be depressing hehe+ Show Spoiler + I don't really want to make a big deal out of this, just want to let the thread know. I'm a little burned out feeling. I'll try to keep reading, but I can't guarantee I'll do as much filter diving. If you think that this is bad - okay. I'm sorry. I figure that everyone can analyze how I played and acted day1, it should hopefully be enough for you to form a read on me. As usual, if people have questions, I will happily answer them - I post this because I'd feel guilty if I just made an active decision to stop commenting and trying to help drive the thread, and then let it happen instead of making it clear. Throwing it in spoilers is a compromise. I don't think it's worth commenting on in a response because my behavior will likely not change as a result. Rainbows, even if I trust your opinion (because I still do think you are town, I just don't want to diligently defend you any longer - I would like you to do it ^^), that doesn't mean that your opinion is 100% accurate. Why is Ravens scum? I'm okay with voting him at the moment because he never moved his vote off you, and because he mistook who the vote leader was 1 minute before the lynch occurred, as kirby also seems to have pointed out. I'm also okay with voting him because I don't know who's scum and Raven wasn't one of my townreads, and maybe this will help get some more conversation going. But I would still like to hear your reasoning, if has changed at all, or if it is the same as in your previous case. Your credibility has tanked ##Vote TheRavensName, for my own reasons listed above. Nobodywonder and JarJarDrinks currently are, and have been, lurking- I would like to see them appear again. The mere existence of lurking potentially unreadables is rather frustrating. I would be rather delighted, Rainbows, if you remained active - particularly if you regained your prior level of activity, where the thread was happily growing and thriving, talking about you. Given how much of day1 revolved around you, if you go missing, town has a good deal less to talk about. ^^ Imho lol. I might be able to post at work tomorrow, but given that my house had flooding issues thursday and I took friday off, I might be playing catchup at my job all day and won't be able to read/post. I definitely won't be able to look at filters or do careful thread analysis until perhaps 20 hours from now, + Show Spoiler + warning warning whine alert^^;+ Show Spoiler + and quite frankly, I don't really want to either. We'll see, maybe I'll get pumped right the fuck up or something. Night everyone. (with a voice dripping with enthusiasm), Lets try not to let the thread die, we're only on day 2 ^^ + Show Spoiler + Even if what you want to talk about is just berating for my comments here, that's fine, as long as you do it in a way that reveals your own alignment and isn't pure fluff. -_- Heh heh. Night all ;o | ||
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On April 09 2013 02:28 jrkirby wrote: Out of all those who voted jampi, my strongest scumread is smancer. On April 08 2013 07:05 Obzy wrote: + Show Spoiler + I liked him before the mislynch occurred, and although the fact that we mislynched made me suspicious of the other people on jampi's wagon, a quick skim through his filter leads me to still lean town on him (Fish, that is). He reacted very much like me, and agreed with my reasoning - + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 02:49 Fishgle wrote: holy shit. things are happening. First off - fuck you rainbows, for being such an arrogant emotional mess. Here's a tip: it's less about what you say, and more about how you depict it. You didn't make any friends because of your abrasive behavior. I understand you were forced to reveal so you wouldn't get lynched, but it was your own damn fault that everyone suspected you. second - fuck you rainbows, if you're actually abandoning the game. third - THERAVENSNAME, WARENT, JAMPIDAMPI why are your votes still on rainbows? Are you guys implying that rainbows' reveal was a fake? If it were fake, there's a huge chance someone would counter-reveal, making it a terrible move for scum. it just doesn't make any sense for him to be scum, no matter how badly he plays. 4th - i think obzy has done a good job explaining further reasons as to why it's unlikely that rainbows is scum. 5th - someone asked about a comment i made about a read on Moloch. disregard it. we have bigger fish to fry now. plus, it was an early-game hunch. Moloch's posts have gotten a lot more substantive and level-headed from since i got the read. 6th - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=18#345 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=12#231 I really think this is the best lead we have so far, coupled with the fact that he's still pushing a lynch on rainbows, who just revealed as the vigilante. ##Vote:jampidampi if I had to be suspicious of somebody on jampi, at the moment, it's smancer, not fish. his scum reads, I would've been quite happy with pre-lynch - now, I'm obviously a bit more skeptical - but I don't think that they make him scum, just reaching with the association to a jampi case. I'm more suspicious of Smancer than the other two, although they obviously all need to keep talking, along with everybody else ^^ Specifically regarding smancer; what's with the rainbows flip-flop? I'll admit, my own confidence was shaken - but really, does the jampi lynch change rainbows' situation? Rainbows wasn't even here for the majority of the jampi stuff. (Which is fucking bad, no doubt! But for Smancer to bring up rainbows after the fact? =l *shrug* Also not liking Jarjar for lurking - why not nobodywonder as well? Jarjar just happened to be the one being voted for lurking at that time. This isn't concrete, of course - but if I had to pick somebody on jampi's wagon that was actually scum, it would be Smancer, not Fish or Moloch. [Naturally, I am ignoring myself. ^^] Does anybody have any opinions on this? (What I mean to imply is quite clearly - I agree. I want all three of them to post, though.) | ||
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assume rainbows is scum. he lives because we have no other vigilante. either way, all it means is we don't have a vig that isn't rainbows. | ||
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you just posted again and it sort of blows my mind: Because people have expressed interest in lynching him!? If you meant to imply that I wanted to lynch him - incorrect, sorry for the misunderstanding. If you meant to imply "Wow, who ever would have thought of lynching him?" - are you even reading lol >.> I take it that you, then, have zero objection to thinking Rainbows is town and have zero intention of lynching him yourself, or you never would've asked that question. However, before deciding to look at the voters on Jampi, whom I believe are at least reasonably townie and I would rather vote Ravens, you had indicated Rainbows, me, and Fish as potential scum, directly after the mislynch. So now you both do not understand why Rainbows would still be alive, AND the idea of him being lynched today had apparently not crossed your mind. In end-game I'll apologize for this tone if you are town, but honestly, I don't see a way that you could have logically changed your mind on Rainbows, secretly, to a point that it makes you ask why he would be lynched. Please convince me otherwise. | ||
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(And I don't necessarily find it likely lol - I did, however, find it likely that people would try, and am perplexed at how you apparently did not expect it - to a point that you thought he would be nk'd by mafia, assuming he is town. Ravens, I don't remember Rainbows making a case against Jampi, I thought it was an omgus vote. The cases came from myself, Smancer, and varying suspicions throughout the game from other people in the thread like Fish. You may mean to say "who voted first" - in which case, quite right. Do you mean to imply that you find the four people on Jampi townie enough that we should expand our search and think of Rainbows instead? + Show Spoiler + As I'm currently voting for you, and I've been rather vocal in my believe that Rainbows is likely town, that indicates to me that there are not ANY scum on Jampi's wagon, at this point in time. I'll happily reconsider later, if things turn out differently - and I [seem to] have a bit of a problem with association cases lol.. Thread activity is miserable. If you haven't posted yet today (that is to say, day 2), please post. Even just to fucking say hi so we know you're reading the thread and questions can be directed at you. If we have a bunch of lurkers (nobodywonder, Jarjar), and a few nonposters so far today (Fish, Moloch), it's hard to actually narrow down who isn't scummy. -_- --and Ravens just posted his thought on it not really being a case - Hm :l Ravens, although I think I also wrote it above, do you think that the four people on Jampi are town, and that is why you are bringing up Rainbows to be looked at as well? | ||
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At the moment, my reads are Town: Me, Fish, Rain Null: Smancer, Moloch, Kirby Lurker: nobodywonder, Jarjar. Scummy: Ravens, Warent. The problem is that Moloch, Kirby, nobodywonder, Jarjar, and Fish aren't posting (or at least - not enough). Ravens and Warent are posting and I'm getting scum vibes, but they could just be _relatively_ scummy compared to Rain and Smancer. To further identify if they are actually scum, I would like to be able to continue gathering thoughts on the other five. Ravens - at a complete fucking dart-board guess, my heart tells me that you, warents, and nobodywonder are scum. If one of those is wrong, add in Smancer. I hate speculating but right now we're on the fast-track to a loss unless we get very, very lucky. I'm still voting for you, but I'm not as certain as I want to be because we don't have enough fucking information! We have posted THREE PAGES IN DAY TWO, two votes have been placed, and nobody seems to care! | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:28 TheRavensName wrote: Tell you what, give me a real good reason to move on from Rainbows. It can not be the vigi claim and it can not be comparable to the meta of the last game he rolled scum, sense I know you at least skimmed it. Your "feeling" on Jampi was wrong, I see no reason this one can't be wrong also. He ragequit, which I think is a townie move because I've done it before, his claim makes no fucking sense from any standpoint so it was probably a dumb townie move, he was the primary person being talked about and I am the only one (or it fucking feels like it at least) who has been adamantly defending him and I'm town so where are his scumbuddies. He did claim vigilante (Sorry, not ignoring it) which is a risky play and stupid under the circumstances if he were scum to claim instead of just calmly deflecting pressure, he's actually playing the game again which at least makes me breathe a small sigh of fucking relief; I want to follow somebody, not lead myself, and Rainbows (at the beginning, anyways) did an admirable job of attempting to lead, as insane as it may have been, and [got distracted, forgot what I was gonna put here, then noticed JarJar posted. Thank god for that, I'm gonna read what he posted! Fuck these thoughts.] | ||
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Quite frankly I don't think you're as scummy as nobodywonder completely by gut feel. If you have the time, could you give your thoughts on recent interactions, specifically if you have any insights regarding Ravens and/or Warent? | ||
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And what do you make of the fact that JarJar also has a town read on him? Specifically, does it make you more inclined to believe that Rainbows is town. | ||
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Also, the fact that he has only myself and Rainbows as townreads - So? I only have Rain and Fish as townreads in my more recent post, and Fish hasn't shown up in awhile. Are you implying that you don't have me as a townread? (In which case cool, whatever) but I fail to see how the fact that he only has us as townreads as a relevant point unless you are trying to undermine the credibility of a townread on Rainbows. | ||
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What do you think of the case against kirby? I might as well ask you since I would like opinions on everything from everybody, and you're obviously here. | ||
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On April 09 2013 06:08 TheRavensName wrote: Well my point is, you mention where would rainbow's scum buddies be sense they arn't defending him, my point is they very well could be. Where are mine if your so certain I have them? I'm not certain, I'm just speculating. Up until JarJar's post, I feel like I was the only person defending Rain. I know I am town. Thusly, Rainbows had no 'scumbuddies' defending him. As you keep posting, I am becoming slightly less certain of you, but I'm perfectly happy to keep you talking because the more information you put out in your defense the easier it will be for everybody to form independent conclusions and it very well could be that all of the scum are lurking or not posting currently! Smancer - I read it, and I want Fish and Moloch to return. I would be quite happy to realize that all of us on jampi were actually town, and I am moderately suspicious of Warent for the suggestion that a minimum of one or two mafia was on Jampi, just by doing mathematical analysis - but same as with Ravens, at least he's been here and giving out his opinions and content to work with. I do indeed keep asking people to post, it would be a glorious day if the thread was moving so quickly that I was one of the lurkier players instead of practically spammy and trying to get discussion moving in any way possible. | ||
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On April 07 2013 09:16 TheRavensName wrote: Well, I guess Jampi read the Ace guide to playing town: Never claim. Toobad, might have saved him. ... According to your behavior, Ravens, claiming will specifically not save you at all. + Show Spoiler + And why do you say you have a better track record? Yes, we mislynched, and you weren't voting for the mislynch target. This means that you have no track record; alternatively, it could be stated that you were worse at arguing your case. | ||
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I appreciate the compliment but I almost certainly am not a better player than anybody else here! Trust me on that one lol. Have no fear that I am certainly town, but if you want to theorize, I can't exactly stop you :0 Rather than thinking I'm good, I just feel like I'm trying to be active. After all, if I was good, I wouldn't've waffled[hehe funny word] on Jampi, thinking "well, he's likely just changing his play to be what I consider "town play", so he's still scum" - I would've gone "He changed his play to a pro-town manner. In a spreadsheet that I did for the first 24 hours or something, my entries on him are 'showed up ^^ against all policies, good thought process on why policies make sense. He's asking questions like me!!! :D:D' and 'Oops ' >.>; Not like that means a lot, I just mean to say that I don't have any confidence in my skills, I'm just putting a lot of time in - and I think it's been said often, but in a video Palmar did analysing the first dozen or so pages of some game or other (Don't remember), he offhandedly commented that Marv was a good player (i chuckled because it seems like something that shouldn't even have to be commented on) - then mentioned that Marv puts in a lot of time and that tends to make people good players. Not sure what I'm saying, both dissing and praising myself at the same time; lol - but I definitely think I'm not good, I'm just putting more time in than a lot of others, and I think the clear display of giving a shit is a reason that there isn't much suspicion on me, despite being on jampi's mislynch along with the rest.(I'm gonna do another quick read/reread of some stuff, then play some n64. Unless you have questions for me ) | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:56 JarJarDrinks wrote: K, I'll go through filters but I'm definately suspicious of people that voted for the obviously blue guy. Where'd he go? Where are Moloch and nobodywonder and kirby? still, you're on to something. rainbows makes a baseless vote on jampi, then when he gets questioned, gets angry and claims blue. ]Think objectively - why would scum do this, at that juncture? Ignoring how it turned out - at the time, he couldn't know how it would turn out, and scum would have to be thinking ahead. (Funnily, whenever I think ahead, I make too many association cases! But scum don't have that inconvenience, so they can legitimately plan.) I think you're probably town, Fish, so I'll ask this; and this may be a bit direct hehe. Are you thinking on Rainbows because you feel bad for not being around for awhile and want to show that you are contributing and it's easy to comment on Rainbows, or because you legitimately are still concerned about him, and think he may be scum? I know I mentioned that I was done defending him but like seriously lol. ^^; | ||
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Jarjar disappeared, this is really annoying. I hate the fact that he disappeared after saying he would go through filters. I like his case on kirby, it's very well constructed, but kirby isn't here either atm. To be totally completely honest I am becoming less convinced of Ravens just because nobody's fucking here [edit, besides fish :D] and I'm talking myself in circles irl. At least Ravens didn't come in after a long afk, drop a case on the same person that he originally voted day1, say he'd look into more stuff, and vanish in a poof of smoke like a fucking genie that appears every thousand years. The fact that the case is good is just troublesome in and of itself, what if they're both scum? Who fucking knows, they aren't here! Out of the people that have been reasonably active, I think that Ravens is the scummiest. But we have people that aren't here at all. + Show Spoiler + I'm switching my vote onto kirby until he shows up and explains Jarjar's case and drops a vote that is to my liking - that is to say, not on fish, not on me, and not on rainbows. I also would appreciate justification for it. These lurkers are going to be the death + Show Spoiler + As such, Jarjar also jumped quite a bit as a scumread to me for telling me he'd do something and then not fucking doing it. Most people just ignore me and don't do it, re: lurkers. Whatever. But telling me he'd do it and then not doing it? :l As explained above, ##Unvote ##Vote JarJarDrinks Ravens is nobodywonder also sucks for being afk just throwing that out there and you too moloch no free ride here if this post doesn't make a lot of logical sense, sorry, just read it and try to follow my thought process. i hate rewriting stuff and i wanted to post these thoughts and especially use the genie line so rather than carefully try to find how best to word it, here's what I'm thinking right now. gonna go play n64 now, I'll be back later | ||
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On April 09 2013 11:19 Obzy wrote: Is the reason people don't trust Rain because they're uncertain of my alignment, because I've defended him so hard? Is that it? lol. Jarjar disappeared, this is really annoying. I hate the fact that he disappeared after saying he would go through filters. I like his case on kirby, it's very well constructed, but kirby isn't here either atm. To be totally completely honest I am becoming less convinced of Ravens just because nobody's fucking here [edit, besides fish :D] and I'm talking myself in circles irl. At least Ravens didn't come in after a long afk, drop a case on the same person that he originally voted day1, say he'd look into more stuff, and vanish in a poof of smoke like a fucking genie that appears every thousand years. The fact that the case is good is just troublesome in and of itself, what if they're both scum? Who fucking knows, they aren't here! Out of the people that have been reasonably active, I think that Ravens is the scummiest. But we have people that aren't here at all. + Show Spoiler + I'm switching my vote onto kirby until he shows up and explains Jarjar's case and drops a vote that is to my liking - that is to say, not on fish, not on me, and not on rainbows. I also would appreciate justification for it. These lurkers are going to be the death + Show Spoiler + As such, Jarjar also jumped quite a bit as a scumread to me for telling me he'd do something and then not fucking doing it. Most people just ignore me and don't do it, re: lurkers. Whatever. But telling me he'd do it and then not doing it? :l As explained above, ##Unvote ##Vote JarJarDrinks Ravens is nobodywonder also sucks for being afk just throwing that out there and you too moloch no free ride here if this post doesn't make a lot of logical sense, sorry, just read it and try to follow my thought process. i hate rewriting stuff and i wanted to post these thoughts and especially use the genie line so rather than carefully try to find how best to word it, here's what I'm thinking right now. gonna go play n64 now, I'll be back later | ||
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Rainbows, you've been around and about - ish - what do you think about kirby? I'm going to go form a [slightly better] opinion on him myself atm, but it's a bit tainted by the fact that he isn't here. | ||
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Hmph. Okay so here's the issue. I can see pretty much everybody being scum and not scum for various reasons. Fish isn't scum. Assumption. I think that he is improving town atmosphere and behaving in a pro-town way, his stances have not stood out as particularly bad, and I am really glad that he came back and posted several times in a row, bringing new insights and then actually sticking around for a bit. It's like he cares - which is nice. Rainbows' claim and behavior makes him town. I don't think there is any denying that, the majority of things I have said have been confirming this and taking a stance on this and firming this up and etc etc etc. But Rainbows' play is not particularly protown, it has large periods of passive-aggressiveness, and he fits in really well with a kirby scumteam. I don't think he's scum but like jesus I wish he would post more constructively, although his overall activity is pretty nice. JarJar just showed up, and I like his case on kirby quite a bit. The fact that he has so few posts really screams like he doesn't care, but he "sounds" townie by tone, and looks scummy by actions. very frustrating and I really hope he can post actively before ~4ish hours before the lynch so we can try to do some consolidation and discussion on the actual lynch instead of town atmosphere [however important] and lurkers [however frustrating] ahaha. nobodywonder, i'm sorry for being down on you. I realize it's not encouraging and I shouldn't've acted that way, given that I've been hoping for you to post every day. That said, it has been three days. From the 6th 14:01 till the 9th 11:44 you didn't post a single time. Except for once in a starcraft 2 thread, apparently, according to your profile. Exempting everything else, I feel like you don't care about town. Your above post is decent, it looks like it has reasonable townie analysis and apparently there's more to come, but your behavior in lurking has not been pro-town, and has not shown you actually care about how we're doing. If you can fix that, I'll lighten up on you a little bit. Ravens feels very defensive, which I honestly think is townier than not. I hate his tunnel on Rainbows, even though I understand because Rain is not playing in a pro-town manner, I can't reconcile myself to agree with it because I think it's as good as proven that Rain is town. (Like if someone trolly was an innocent child or something is how I see him.) I have no idea what to think of Ravens anymore lol. -_- Smancer is odd. He made, in my eyes, a good case on jampi, and followed the lynch to the end, picking up negative attention. I have a hard time believing mafia would do this, since it puts him strongly in the spotlight. He didn't like my case on Ravens (and I apparently didn't either or I'd still be voting him and he'd be scum instead of null), but he's apparently read me as town all game, so he wasn't just disagreeing because he disagreed with ME, but with the case itself. But then he almost immediately 180s randomly on Rainbows and compliments Rainbows' case on Ravens, what? So I'm somewhat uncertain of Smancer too, it feels like my unvoiced opinion of him shifts drastically throughout a day where I start or end a day thinking he's very scummy, and the next day he's somehow townie, and I don't know what causes these shifts. Regarding Warent, I feel like every time I look at him he's scum, but I also feel like he's acting in a pro-town way. Maybe it's the way he types? On sheer scumminess I swear he's always top. It's unfortunate too that he lives in a different timezone so we have different active hours, but there's obviously nothing that can be done about this. It doesn't help that he soft-accused me and Fish (and Rain), then switched to questioning the people on jampi's wagon and wanting our opinions on each other - but like, that is what I would want if I thought there were scum on Jampi's wagon -_- Kirby... Sigh. I like the case against him. I don't really like that he's lurking (Although really, it's not lurking. It's just blatantly being afk. Jarjar, nobodywonder, Kirby, and Moloch are all, or were all just blatantly afk.) I don't have a damn clue. As is clearly obvious, I don't have any idea who the mafia is and I really hope I get shot night 2 so I can stop worrying! It could be anybody except fish IMHO, with it being more likely to not be Ravens or Rainbow or Warent singlehandedly because they actually have talked to me a decent amount, whereas Smancer made a big deal of talking to me but my opinion of him isn't solidified in my head, and nobodywonder/Jarjar have begun posting again but I don't know how to treat the fact that they were gone for so long. Moloch isn't here, I mean what does that even mean!? He's just like, fucking gone? Still? And he was on jampi's wagon? Like why is he gone lol >.< He was a very solid townread for me exiting day 1 and now he's just not here.and my confidence has eroded throughout the day and several hours that he has been missing and now I have no idea what to think of him. So who are my scumreads, nobodywonder? I don't know. Whenever I think about "if this guy is scum, then ________" i end up with ridiculous conspiracy theories and completely unrelated sets of scumteams with no common denominator. I believe I'll be able to give good time to posting and give good votes before the end of the 2nd day. Hopefully. If kirby doesn't, I guess I'd lynch him primarily. If you (nobodywonder) and Jarjar are active, I don't really have a problem with you... somehow. If Warent wakes up and isn't protown throughout the next day, I'd also be willing to lynch him. If Moloch doesn't show up at all (and doesn't vote), I don't want to vote on a pure lurker that I was once very town on, so maybe he'll get modkilled or something, but if he shows up and drops a vote with bad reasoning and takes off I'd vote him too. He'd need to stick around for several hours and be townie and explain what he thinks because if he can't then like I'm sorry but that's just not okay. I'm less okay with lynching Ravens and I don't really get why. I refuse to lynch Fish. I'm okay with lynching Rainbows only on day 3 if we mislynch today and he still doesn't die and doesn't pick up his game because I'd rather just fucking kill him and lose than let him troll continuously and then turn out to magically, miraculously, fucking SOMEHOW be scum in the end, despite the fact that it would make no sense and would mean I was completely taken in, I'd kill him and lose just to prevent that anger. Like I don't even know Rain frustrates me because I put so much work into defending him and now it feels like he's not living up to my apparently rather high expectations. Sorry buddy ^^ Don't take this too hard~ And for Smancer and if I'm okay with lynching him - throw a fucking dart, my read on smancer is aligned with the phases of the moon. I hope this post helps people. | ||
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I have a difficult time having the necessary conviction to think that people are mafia without positive reinforcement from other people, I think my votes in the previous game I played were either sheeps or omgus' votes. This game, nobody has really taken charge and driven the town towards targets that I like (and gotten major reactions and discussion out of people) other than the Jampi lynch, which was some sort of combined teamwork mislynch of me and my townreads [at the time]. So I'm feeling a bit out of sorts, the most I feel like I can really contribute in a good way is to get people talking so that there can be a consensus, my individual leadership is not something I have confidence in. *shrug* sorry this isn't really a good reason as to why I'm looking for townreads, and why my scumreads aren't very prominent - I just don't think I'm really that good at this game lol. The only thing I do reasonably well, IMO, is have high activity and show that I am townie through the pro-town-ness of my actions. | ||
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as a general comment - nobodywonder, you've gone up significantly faster in my esteem than I was expecting tbth Rather happy to see. Have you concluded anything from reading through filters/thread about who you think looks scummy?+ Show Spoiler + Sorry about disappearing for a bit - roommate from previous house showed up so I showed him around and then chatted for a little while. Was distracted :x I'm torn on kirby's comments lol - what do other people think? (I'm torn because they look like mine, so I naturally like them ^^; But as a result, I'm not exactly unbiased.) I definitely think that nobodywonder has been acting rather townie indeed since reappearing - I went afk and the thread advanced a page! + Show Spoiler + Tell me honestly, you're town, don't lie please XD Promise :0! Although that post (mine) looks a little silly now - I probably should've spoilered it since quite a bit of it was a little offtopic. I'm gonna head to bed, night all - be sure to watch the clock and don't miss the time before deadline, we ought to have conclusions a bit in advance so we can really figure out [through discussion] the right lynch targets. (imo hehe.) | ||
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Well, to start, ##Unvote. I'd like to lynch kirby or Moloch today. Yesterday I saw Moloch's post right before going to bed, and thought to myself "Wow. + Show Spoiler + On April 09 2013 16:04 Moloch wrote: I'm going to start over and write different stuff because I copy-pasted a whole bunch of vote counts to word, but the crossed-out votes came across as normal, so I did other counts to see exactly how many people had voted for Rainbows at the time he claimed, and I had come up with six (it wasn't six - you can check if you're not me and can actually read). I had a cool paragraph saying how Rainbows is all innocent because of blah blah, but that's all useless now. After actual counting, there were four people (me, jampi, ravens, and fishgle) who were voting for him at the time of him claiming. After he claimed, this is the timeline. Rainbows jampi->ravens Me unvote Smancer Kirby-> jampi Obzy ravens ->jampi Fishgle rainbows->jampi Me ->jampi Saraf -> jjd Kirby -> jjd Jampi rainbows->jjd I know it's pretty useless information now, but it's the information I compiled when I thought I was actually on to something. Oh, and I'm not sure what to think about the Saraf lynch. I don't think they'd be as obvious as to hit someone who voted for scum, but it also seems like it would be a good idea to vote for someone that's onto them. Sorry again for not being here for the past couple days, I know it makes the game less fun for everybody else. I'll do better for the next while. Obviously, getting up today, it's his only contribution. Rainbows, why don't you think Moloch is scum? I'm glad that Smancer jumped right on it, I feel like if Smancer was mafia (and Moloch was town), he would know it was a mislynch and be a little more hesitant since his town-cred dropped after being the notable first jump on the jampi case. /speculation speculation. Ravens also voted - no real comment, I think what he's saying here makes sense. Moloch is my primary vote choice at the moment. The other is kirby - So on kirby, I mentioned that I like his reads because they look like mine, despite the fact they come after mine - not sure what to think of that necessarily. I'm glad to see Jarjar at least be suspicious of other people besides kirby, although Ravens had stuff I quite liked over the night so he's reading significantly more town to me than before. I am okay with a kirby lynch, but I think Moloch is a better lynch at the moment. ##Vote Moloch The cases that have been made on him already are good, I'll toss my own reasoning in a spoiler; + Show Spoiler + The big thing is that after coming back, On April 09 2013 14:42 Moloch wrote: Sorry for being gone for such a long time. I was out of the house all day Sunday and at the university all day today (stupid end of semester group projects). I'm going to spend the next 20-30 minutes reading and writing my opinions on stuff. If you're here and have any specific things you want me to touch on, let me know and I'll touch on those too before I sleep. I'll make sure I'm back here at least a few hours before deadline tomorrow to keep things going. He apologizes for inactivity and then says he'll give us his opinions and will answer questions. He then proceeds to post this, On April 09 2013 16:04 Moloch wrote: I'm going to start over and write different stuff because I copy-pasted a whole bunch of vote counts to word, but the crossed-out votes came across as normal, so I did other counts to see exactly how many people had voted for Rainbows at the time he claimed, and I had come up with six (it wasn't six - you can check if you're not me and can actually read). I had a cool paragraph saying how Rainbows is all innocent because of blah blah, but that's all useless now. After actual counting, there were four people (me, jampi, ravens, and fishgle) who were voting for him at the time of him claiming. After he claimed, this is the timeline. Rainbows jampi->ravens Me unvote Smancer Kirby-> jampi Obzy ravens ->jampi Fishgle rainbows->jampi Me ->jampi Saraf -> jjd Kirby -> jjd Jampi rainbows->jjd I know it's pretty useless information now, but it's the information I compiled when I thought I was actually on to something. Oh, and I'm not sure what to think about the Saraf lynch. I don't think they'd be as obvious as to hit someone who voted for scum, but it also seems like it would be a good idea to vote for someone that's onto them. Sorry again for not being here for the past couple days, I know it makes the game less fun for everybody else. I'll do better for the next while. So the analysis of how votes played out isn't an analysis, it's a useless list, as he himself points out. And his response to the Saraf opinion question is "Nope." Then a further apology and a disappearing act. This despite On April 05 2013 09:56 Moloch wrote: People who don't say a lot and just stay low take a higher priority over people that say a lot. Especially early game. If the guys who talk a lot are good, they'll be better for the town than people who don't say much, and if they do happen to be non-fatties, there's a higher chance they'll slip up sooner or later. It's difficult to slip up when you don't say anything or don't have an opinion of your own. My my, it is indeed difficult to slip up when you don't say anything or have an opinion of your own, isn't it. In summary, Moloch's long awaited rearrival did not contain actual opinions or his thoughts on the game at the time, his post was a list of information that had happened and a lack of an opinion on Saraf. Earlier, Moloch mentioned on the nk: The scum hitting someone will give us another confirmed townie, so that will change almost every read we can make at the moment. But it doesn't appear to have changed any reads at all, or caused any reads at all. Who does Moloch think is currently scum? His only stated read, as far as I can see, is that Rainbows is town - I'm fine with that read, but that sort of feels like thread sentiment at the moment. I don't know what he thinks of other people at all. I also agree with the cases posted by Smancer and Ravens. Rainbows just posted his stuff on Ravens, I see; I'll take a look at it in a moment. | ||
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On April 10 2013 01:26 TheRavensName wrote: Thats okay. I'm still convinced your scum too, if nothing else your current decision on how to play is hurting you more than your blueclaim is helping. I just realize no one wants to listen to me about you anyways.Everyone except Smancer and Moloch wants to listen to obzy too much to actually care. He votes Moloch because he can't kill you because I'm stopping him. You think I'd somehow disapprove of this? >.> Besides, he's sort of right. I'm not convinced you're scum, but your current decision on how to play IS hurting you, it's just not hurting you more than I think you're town. I disagree with him, but I think that he's acting logically under the circumstances. Your case is basically just a continued tunnel on Ravens. If all Ravens has done is tunnel you, all you have done is tunnel Ravens, since your case on him on day 1, other than occasionally speaking up to defend yourself or be chatty. I had hoped that you'd promote a pro-town atmosphere since I knew after the beginning of day1 that you would be capable of it, but after I left yesterday, (or maybe the day before?) the thread lasted for a couple posts of bickering between you and Ravens and then stopped. I'm tired of it. Ravens deciding to take a step away does NOT make him scum in my eyes. I get the impression that you specifically will not vote Moloch because you think Ravens is scum, not because of the arguments against or for him. Smancer just posted - conspiracy theory aside, I would like to see a defense of Moloch if people don't want to lynch him, not just apathy. I think the arguments against him are pretty good right now, but I'm always willing to listen to politely worded opinions, particularly when backed up with evidence. I don't think Ravens is a good lynch today. Maybe tomorrow or something, but not today. I would be pleased to see you, Rainbows, drop your tunnel on him for one damn day. If we lynch the mafia roleblocker, feel free to shoot him. I can't stop you there, and it 100% will confirm you if there are two kills in a night. You mention that you think Warent is a possible second scum - could we hear your thoughts on this? And who do you think is scummier, between Moloch and kirby? Please do not look at the fact that Ravens is voting Moloch and dismiss it out of hand, judge the case on its own merits. | ||
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Also nobodywonder is almost certainly town haha. He picked up enormously since coming back. | ||
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##Unvote I still like the case against kirby. I'm feeling happier with Moloch since he's posting, and his logic is good too ^^ Moloch, if you were more active, you probably never would have left my happy townread group haha. You're making a revival atm but don't take that as a sign that it's okay to slow down or stop, because it definitely isn't. /crackwhip ^_^; At this point, I'm most content with a kirby lynch (last second edit before hitting post - i guess i'll vote on it) ##Vote jrkirby - I feel kiiiinda alright with a Warent lynch to be honest, but I don't feel we should do it today, it'd be very sudden. This is more of a general feeling - Warent just feels scummy. Like I look at his posts and I get that feeling. (No case though[yet], so don't bother thinking about it too much.) We've got four nonvoters, I'm very curious to see where they intend to place their votes - particularly Warent who reads kirby as town. Fish, get back here and chat for a bit -.-. You aren't a viable candidate today, but I want you to be talking about this because I value your input, and you obviously need to place a vote. | ||
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So on Warent, he's felt scummy the entire game (did I already say that? ehn) to me, with moments of ... less scumminess. I don't know. It's just a feeling. If I could put it in words, I'd vote for him instead of kirby. It feels like Warent says things that sound smart, and then nothing ever comes of them, or he lacks conviction in his words or something. He's still going on about Rainbows, which sort of feels like a copout to the current situation. Given the way he had been speaking, it feels like he should be voting JarJar, not Rainbows. The Rainbows vote comes sort of out of nowhere. I feel bad about voting kirby even though I'm almost certain that you, Smancer, and I on his lynch are town, and your case was excellent. Jarjar's was good, and got things rolling. But people have been rejecting Jarjar's case and not rejecting yours iirc (that's how it feels), other than Moloch who carefully stepped through your case and pointed out a few inconsistencies, making me doubt the lynch on kirby a bit more. Ravens disappeared with his vote sitting still on Moloch, I want him to come back because it feels rather clear to me now that Moloch is town due to the nature of his discussion. My read against Warent is because other people sound townie and he sounds scummy, but he's playing in a pro-town manner most of the time so it's just a stupid hunch and I refuse to bet my vote on it. Ramble ramble ramble this is frustrating | ||
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More random thoughts; Warent - he said that there's no real case against Moloch which I totally disagree with there definitely was a case on him - it's just that he is showing that the cases were flawed, I don't think they were inherently flawed. He says that Rainbows should be dead today and I outright disagree, he shouldn't be under basically any circumstances. Rainbows - where'd he go? -_- So troublesome. sec I see some responses talking to me so this post will be short. | ||
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Moloch has provided a reasonable summary, enough to introduce doubt into nobodywonder's case, and it is the one I really liked. But there's no better lynch with reasonable evidence than you. If you are going to accuse Jarjar, then I would like you specifically to break apart his case and prove to me that he is scum - because I don't think nobodywonder or Moloch are, and nobody else is really a reasonable person that I could vote on without feeling like I was absolutely absolutely jumping the gun if that makes sense don't even bother responding to this post with a 'yeah okay i'll go look into his filter but don't expect much' or 'i'll see what i can do' just go do it. I'll consider moving my vote onto Jarjar instead of you, but I need you to occupy that same place that nobodywonder and Moloch occupy right now, and you don't! | ||
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On April 10 2013 07:22 jrkirby wrote: Nobodywonder reads townie. He has a good case against me, it's well written,and he's been acting townie all game. Smancer I'm not confident on. Sometimes I read his filter it seems town, somethimes it seems scum. More scum lately, but that's because Idon't agree with any of his votes, not because he hasn't reasons for them. I really wish he hadn't voted jampi, then I'd have a good townread on him. Obzy - I hope he's town. If he's not, I really doubt we'll win. He reads town, acts town, and smells town. Jarjar - obviosly I have scumread on him, because he's been tunneling me hard and hasn't posted substantive evidence against me. | ||
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I have somebody I think I might vote for, will get my thoughts out in a moment. I think I may need to be dissuaded because this is crazy conspiracy shit heh. -_- Has to do with this though. + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2013 02:05 Smancer wrote: Rainbows, Crazy conspiracy theory incoming... I think you might be right with Raven. One possible explanation I have could be he is voting for Moloch because he actually knows Moloch is scum and my case was good. Then when we lynch scum tonight he can say he voted for Moloch, and why would he do that if he were scum. So to recap he knows Moloch is scum. He knows that his case against you isn't building momentum. He thinks he can survive longer by sacrificing Moloch by using it as an argument upcoming in day 3. Either way I think Raven and Moloch are scum now. I would lynch either. My vote is currently on Moloch. See, here's what I'm thinking. Me, nobodywonder, and Moloch are town. Kirby's talking with us. I can't believe that scum would just let us grill him without any involvement at all. Jarjar is brought up as a read, nobody looks in and suddenly comments. It's an hour to lynch! So who's missing, Rain and Ravens who have perpetually tunneled each other. If we mislynch kirby(or anybody) today, I think we need to lynch Rain tomorrow because I hate the idea of losing outright to a fakeclaim, enough I'd throw the game for it. If we lynch Rain tomorrow, then I'm not giving his thoughts on ravens a fair chance. Ravens hasn't showed up, his vote is still on Moloch and that read currently sucks because Moloch ahs been actively participating, Ravens has been around at lynch for the previous lynch and he isn't here now. I hate this, and honestly, if we lose, I want BOTH ravens and Rain to be lynched. If we're gonna mislynch today, I'd rather it be ravens than Kirby for the sake of my godamn sanity ##Unvote ##Vote TheRavensName And if either of them show up, it puts ENORMOUS suspicion on them for being shitty town players for not showing up until now. Honestly ANY new entrants at this point; you suck. will post again in a sec gotta post this one first though | ||
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But it's better than throwing out a shit vote with a bad read that makes me doubt you being town. | ||
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I'm lynching you tomorrow unless kirby flips scum. And if he flips scum, I'm only "Probably" lynching you tomorrow. Fuck. ##Vote jrkirby | ||
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Kirby, if you're town - sorry in advance. I feel like you tried at the end, but what I needed was you trying when you weren't on the chopping block. Rain and Ravens, RGRLGLRGLRL. I am going to do a very busy 15 minutes of work, then head home - I will be in the car when the deadline hits, and won't be able to respond immediately like last time where it was a happy weekend and I was spamming refresh. | ||
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Even if we're wrong we need to not jump to conclusions so hastily. We need to discuss things first. That's the point of the game. Kirby, I do NOT intend to vote jarjars tomorrow if you flip green. Like seriously fuck that. It's one of the R's. I'm AFK now. If you do something really stupid, you had better expect it to be a learning experience, whether or not it's successful. -_- (This is a PM I got from Hapa back in November during coaching then. Well last-minute vote swings rarely end well. They are usually very emotional and very easily directed by a reasonably active scumteam. Lets not do a last-minute vote swing unless we are REALLY FUCKING NOT CONFIDENT ON KIRBY.) | ||
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Rainbows, why do you think there are only two blues in this game? | ||
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If you're town being ridiculous and a third claimed, what, you'd be like "oh. my bad /hurkkkk" and die. What a stupid comment to make. Please explain it. | ||
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...Sigh. Rainbows is town, pretty much 100%. Voting Ravens worries me given how fast the swing occurred, but he could be scum. I have townreads on nobodywonders and Moloch, 100%. I think fish at least is acting somewhat rationally, I will be sad if he doesn't participate more. Warent, JarJar, Ravens, Smancer. I suppose there are likely three scum in here. I include Smancer for chastising me for not panic-switching. If Ravens is town, then we lose tomorrow guaranteed. We'd lynch kirby or Rain, almost certainly. The fact that the swing occurred in that direction - hm. But I had a townread on Smancer before this. | ||
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My guess atm is Smancer Jarjar Warent scumteam. We all know how much my guesses are worth, but there it is. There is nothing that specifically states that either Rain or Ravens has to be scum. Somebody awhile back said it's likely that one of them was scum or something like that, maybe +jampi, I disagree, now. If there was going to be a last minute vote swing, it was going to be a swing onto Ravens. This worries me because we were so fucking out of control that I bet if I hadn't tried to get everyone back on kirby, Ravens would've gotten swarmed and killed. - -; Am I making sense so far? | ||
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I'm a Techie. (Doctor) I'd jokingly say AMA but I don't want to be asked things, unless it's my opinion on people and how things are panning out. If Rainbows was town, he would know that he was a proper vigilante, and there are two confirmed blues. Saying that there can't be three is flat-out-incorrect, obviously, and he wouldn't say it unless he believed it. If Rainbows was scum, he would know by now there IS no proper vigilante, and there is no roleblocker - as there were no roleblocks claimed, or roleblockings claimed. So there is no roleblocker. As such, he KNOWS there is a doctor. Saying that there can't be three blues is absolute suicide if he fakeclaimed. He would KNOW there's another blue. So I feel like it's a fact that Rainbows is blue, and he only made that statement because he was so certain there were only two blues, as it was his past experience. So that brings us to Ravens. Ravens has insanely tunneled Rain all game. Rain is a blue. (Fact) - If Ravens was scum, Ravens would absolutely know that Rain was blue. Warent's reasoning sucked (scum of course) - they totally would've left Rain alive, and wouldn't've killed him. I've explained this before and I won't again. Ask the coaches. So why would Ravens tunnel Rain if Rain was town? Pure insanity as scum. Bad play if town, but he's probably just paranoid because of Rain's behavior last game - in the whole, he doesn't want to lose to Rain being ridiculous again, way. So atm I think he's town too, under the effectively certain read that Rain is town. Moloch and nobodywonder talked all day with kirby and I. I'm town, kirby's town - they're fucking town. End of discussion, that's my read. Fish is town. Nobody else is even remotely skeptical of me. That leaves only three people. QED. I had been planning all game on OMGUSing the first person to vote for me, and I've picked up zero votes all game iirc so I never got the chance, and I won't tomorrow because I'm gonna die tonight almost 100%. If the scum, Smancer, Warent, and Jarjar leave me alive, then I'll be pushing them all day tomorrow. That would kinda be a pain in all likelihood for them -_- Thoughts? Sorry for being mean to everybody at various points throughout this game, I'm stressed, but it doesn't excuse my behavior. I apologize. | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: I had a feeling when he was screaming for the town to "lynch JarJar tomorrow" it was gonna be bad. Sorry but I voted my read. I don't like how people are turning on me already since I think my reasoning was sound and obviously several people agreed with me. Obzy, why would u claim right now? DOn't get that @ all. On April 10 2013 10:15 Obzy wrote: I sort of want people to trust me, and I sort of am okay with dying this night since I slacked at work today trying to help the thread so much. My will to play is sort of sapped, and I sort of feel like I'm just kinda bad. Most of all, I don't want people to waste their time thinking about me in scumteams just because I'm a retard who lynched townies twice. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I really, really hope I get shot tonight. If I don't, I might land a protect on somebody and the scumteam will require an additional mislynch to win, so they had better gift me this. Warent, entirely hypothetically, what if in my -imaginary- -luck shot- -guess- scumteam prediction you were replaced with Rainbows? And the number of blue roles, yes, is unknown to all players, but I feel it's a safe assumption that it's either 2 or 3, and we could all have safely assumed that at the beginning of the game. | ||
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I see Ravens just posted - It definitely does, but really, I have no idea who's who. I could say "I think it's these 3" and then afk until I die, or I could at least TRY to promote thought. If he says his scum reads are similar to mine then (or vice-versa), it implies that he is accepting of Jarjar and Smancer lynches. Who would you remove from that equation to lynch Rain with, or would you change it up entirely? | ||
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not for me specifically because I rather want to die, but Up until this point, you've seemed to be agreeing with Warent because he wants to kill Rain - and now you mention that his filter's short and he's been tunneling Rain only. Why has this not been a problem until I bring up questioning how he would react to killing Rain instead of himself? | ||
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And I did some work for a bit and then re-imagined Rain winning as scum and my vision went red so despite my post yesterday I'm open to lynching Rain largely out of potential spite. Do you think that Smancer looks objectively scummy, or is it just that he has been pushing incorrect lynches? I'd identified him through process of elimination, he has been a very difficult read for me. | ||
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On April 11 2013 03:14 TheRavensName wrote: You know as well as I do that killing anything that makes it simpler for the town is not going to happen. + Show Spoiler + Especially not when you pulled a Rainbows. WHY DIDN'T YOU WAIT TILL TOMORROW DAMN IT?! + Show Spoiler + Sorry. I guess I hadn't calmed down. It would've been significantly wiser to wait until immediately before the day post and then post that, but I honestly want to get NK'd and have no faith that I'd be able to actually land a protect. It was selfish of me, and bad play - but, as is my seeming catchphrase, I never claimed to be good. | ||
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I'm even assuming that I should've posted a claim at all, which was in itself a poor play. If I was going to claim, I should have done so at the end of this night. The proper play would be to have kept a level head and kept my motivation up and not claimed at all. I was never going to be mislynched anyways. | ||
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JarJar, even if people aren't going to listen to you necessarily, that's no excuse imho for not trying to join the conversation. In your last game, I noticed that you didn't post much until you started defending yourself [I only skimmed trying to look at the days going by between your posts, lol] so you've been playing like your town self that game. The thing is, your town self isn't very townie, and that's why you got mislynched despite having a blue claim in the back pocket and picking up your activity significantly on lynch day. You aren't CURRENTLY getting any votes, since it's night. I very much recommend that you start posting actively immediately. Nobodywonder was a similarly null read for me a couple of days ago, and now he's a strong town read due to his increase in activity and the way he thought. If you don't pick up your activity in some way or another to show that you're townie, you will only avoid the lynch through dumb luck, not arguments and defending yourself, in my opinion. Whether that be as scum or town. We will have 8 people alive tomorrow - 7 if rainbows is idiotically not roleblocked and fires to confirm himself. There are 3 scum left, and everybody town can ignore themselves as a possible scum, of course. We've got a 40%+ chance of random lynching and hitting scum ffs. If you pick up your activity in a pro-town way and we hit scum tomorrow, I don't care if you're scum today, that will stave off your lynch for another day and then you have to do it again tomorrow and if you do it again tomorrow then you survive two days and then you can't do it and you'll get lynched for being scum. High activity helps from EVERYBODY. Your reads are town on me and Rain - both blue claims, at this point. Scummy on Warent and Ravens - Ravens for distancing from a scumbuddy, which doesn't mean anything now, and Warent for placing suspicion on Rainbows. How do you consider Warent and Rainbows right now? And has your view on Ravens changed? | ||
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1. Don't blindly trust my reads. I'm bad. They're just opinions. Guaranteed opinions, truthful opinions, yes - but just opinions. 2. We're going to lose - And would you like to know why I think that is? Because in the 18 hours since I claimed, there have been posts by four people, and three of them were the people I had called out as scum in my claim post. Sheesh. I see you just posted, Warent - I will read it when I get back from lunch. | ||
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It will be guaranteed when I die tonight, then. If you have been legitimately reading me as non-town to a point that you think my opinions are not town opinions, you are mafia, horrible, or insane. Warent, I like that piece of information quite a bit - that JarJar's voters are dead. I don't really know why you'd specifically point out that JarJar and nobodywonder have voted on mislynches twice in a row - I mean, so did Smancer, Fish, and myself. Assuming your assumption is correct; Smancer obviously is my pick for the scum on jampi's wagon. | ||
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Also - Can I can save myself? I didn't think I could lol I wrote up some things about why your theory is stupid, but I don't actually think there's any reason to poke holes in it - it's just bad and I think you're scum for it. Also: You say that I would claim to protect fake-Rainbows - what, you think that there was one blue? >.> Obviously you do not think there was just one blue. | ||
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Could a medic theoretically protect themselves? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + The question is stupid, I obviously can't protect myself at night, because that' #1 not how medics work and #2 how can I 'visit' myself and protect my own home - -; I just ask because the hosts will clear up a simple question very rapidly. | ||
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I have already given my opinion on the Raven vs Rainbows discourse - several times, actually. And the vote counts from Warent, who accused me so now I'm fairly 100% certain that he is scum, are not necessarily something I think require discussion since they are a statement of facts rather than good insight as to why they matter, but I will indulge your curiosity, despite thinking you're likely a second scum. My input on the vote counts: Day one lynch: TheRavensname (1) Rainbows Rainbows (2) Warent, TheRavensName jrkirby (2) JarJarDrinks, nobodywonder jampidampi (4) Smancer, Obzy, Fishgle, Moloch JarJarDrinks (3) Saraf, jrkirby, jampidampi Specifically, I guess I'll note the thing I noticed but am not certain about: Jarjar had 3 votes here, and all three voters on him were town, while four voters were on other targets. This sort of makes me worry that Jarjar is more likely to be town, since mafia wouldn't've felt comfortable with the end of the lynch if he was scum. /shrug although he's still scummy. | ||
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Warent, I already explained why I claimed. I quoted it for you awhile ago, in fact. Power roles are distributed randomly - but that doesn't mean what you are implying it does - it means that power roles are randomly distributed amongst townies. It's not like the host just flipped a coin for each one to decide whether or not it should be in the game. I mean, according to the rules, there "theoretically" could be multiple of a role, but that's not going to be the case lol. Smancer had made a list of posts from Jampi he didn't like as early as here, + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 07:30 Smancer wrote: You actually have a really good point. Looking at his filter it is terrible. Almost every single post is posing a question to someone rather than actually contributing. I mean literally every single one is what do you think about X? Look at this: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 15:52 jampidampi wrote: Does Rainbows behaviour make him scum in your eyes? On April 05 2013 14:05 jampidampi wrote: In what way do you like Obzy? On April 05 2013 14:20 jampidampi wrote: Moloch, in this post you calling Rainbows scum in a noncommital way (bolded by me). Do you think he is actually scummy for that post? On April 05 2013 14:38 jampidampi wrote: By that way, you are voting Rainbows. What makes hi scummy? On April 05 2013 14:54 jampidampi wrote: While Rainbows post does generate discussion, do you think it was a good way to start discussion? On April 05 2013 15:30 jampidampi wrote: Fishgle, does your post mean that you are going to sleep? Your posts so far have all been reagrding Rainbows. Any other opinions? On April 05 2013 16:08 jampidampi wrote: Warent, do you have opinions on someone not named Rainbows? and it was Fish that pointed this out, not me, as far as I remember. (Maybe I did, dunno - but I think you're implying I definitively gave Smancer the idea, and I don't remember this being the case.) I think you are probably trying to distance yourself from Smancer right now, given that mere hours ago you said that replacing yourself with Rainbows in your scumteam looked good, and now you're appealing to him against me. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_X7cq0i0IwXc/TLZD58G9nxI/AAAAAAAAEbw/ew0bqdrLeqc/s1600/Sisyphus.jpg) I would rather discuss Warent. I feel like by deciding to pick on my medic claim when I have been active throughout the entire game and begun attacking him directly, he is basically claiming scum. The claim was stupid. I should not have claimed at that point. Didn't consult the coaches, didn't really consider that it would be better to claim to get myself off hypothetical annoying scumteams until today at 4:58 or so instead of really early, but apparently he's now going to let me live and somehow try to also blame (or distance himself, depending) Rainbows for this at the same time, thinking to himself "Well, OBVIOUSLY there is only one blue, I will build a fake case off this. It's "Random distribution", after all." It doesn't even say it's random distribution! >.> It says "The game is inherently balanced for both sides depending on the types and numbers of roles that appear." Not random at all! | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
My claim was stupid, I should have held onto it for longer for obvious reasons. I think he is claiming scum because attacking me is fucking idiotic from a town perspective, and his logic sucks, and he's also lying. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Also, if they leave me alive, I guess I get to be a claimed medic and try to make saves every night, and if I land even one then town gets an entire extra lynch unless you get your shot off and hit a townie. Idiots. They're likely going to kill me tonight unless they think they can mislynch me, apparently, because my role is strong, and they can't roleblock both of us. If you get your shot off, then I don't need to get saves off if you miss - It'd be 4-3 then, and you're confirmed. If they roleblock me and you get a shot off and I claim roleblocked, then whoever else claims a RB is scum. Etc etc, in conclusion, I think they're still going to kill me tonight, and if they don't, then this is some sort of personal hell \o/ | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
If that doesn't happen I'm voting Warent. You never know, though! I'm going to do some work now! I probably won't post until I get home in two and a half hours! If I die, farewell everybody and I will welcome back my sanity! -_- | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Perfectly happy to see it happen though :0. | ||
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