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Just finishing up some responses before doing something else today. ^^
On April 06 2013 22:26 jampidampi wrote:
Rainbows giving Obzy a townread based on Obzys first three posts doesn't matter?
And like half of Rainbows cases were really bad. Look at his case on Saraf. A bunch of missinterpretings and lies. His case on nobodywonder? Picks up one post, says that nobodywonder doesn't have a read on Rainbows, when wonder gave his read on him in the post Rainbows bought up. Rainbows calls out Ravens for not giving his opinion on nobodywonder, even though Ravens called him dump town.
And do you think Rainbows reacted to my case in a townie way?
Absolutely, I think he reacted in a townie way. Not necessarily in a pro-town way, mind you! But DEFINITELY in a townie way haha.
I don't want to see Saraf's opinion on rainbows, Ravens. I want to see Saraf's opinion on basically anybody else haha. If his opinion on Rain isn't that he's town, then wth tbth ^^
And lastly since Warent just posted - I didn't really expect you to move your vote - -; But you've seemed mildly scummy so whatever. I don't want to lynch for information when we could lynch for killing Jampi >.> I don't really think that waiting until Rain's flip matters a ton to be honest lol! If he's town, then OBVIOUSLY you guys look bad - but you already look bad! :x And if he's scum, then the guilty parties to look at are myself, smancer, and fish - strong townreads of mine, and I think, everybody else too. Yes yes things are constantly in need of re-evaluation and all - but phrasing it that way tries to strengthen the argument of lynching for information, which is just stupid. Why would you want to lynch a non-counter-claimed blue, who claimed in the middle of the day many hours before the lynch before afking, on day 1?
I'll be around intermittently guys - If Rainbows gets more votes I am going to be quite cross, ahaha. -_- And I quite think that the votes he has, have no business being on him.
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I think I need an hour or so cool down. My mind is spinning in circles and I can't have clear thoughs. I might be tunneling Rainbows hardcore and maybe thats why everything he does and says adds up as scummy in my mind. If you have something you want me to address, leave it in the threas. Will be back in an hour or maybe a little less.
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On April 07 2013 02:49 Fishgle wrote:holy shit. things are happening. First off - fuck you rainbows, for being such an arrogant emotional mess. Here's a tip: it's less about what you say, and more about how you depict it. You didn't make any friends because of your abrasive behavior. I understand you were forced to reveal so you wouldn't get lynched, but it was your own damn fault that everyone suspected you. second - fuck you rainbows, if you're actually abandoning the game. third - THERAVENSNAME, WARENT, JAMPIDAMPI why are your votes still on rainbows? Are you guys implying that rainbows' reveal was a fake? If it were fake, there's a huge chance someone would counter-reveal, making it a terrible move for scum. it just doesn't make any sense for him to be scum, no matter how badly he plays. 4th - i think obzy has done a good job explaining further reasons as to why it's unlikely that rainbows is scum. 5th - someone asked about a comment i made about a read on Moloch. disregard it. we have bigger fish to fry now. plus, it was an early-game hunch. Moloch's posts have gotten a lot more substantive and level-headed from since i got the read. 6th - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=18#345 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=12#231I really think this is the best lead we have so far, coupled with the fact that he's still pushing a lynch on rainbows, who just revealed as the vigilante. ##Vote:jampidampi
To be quite honest? Yes I think its a fake claim. his way of play does not make sense for a vigi. He talks about not wanting to draw attention as scum, but you don't do it as a Vigi either because then you'll never get your shot off. Your playing off the assumption that there is either vigi, and that if there s one he wouldn't just shoot Rainbows and then claim the hit after so he can still actually shoot while still being able to push a lynch.
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I'm back and I'm rereading the thread, this hopefully with clear thoughts.
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I agree that jampi is the best day one lynch.
If you go through his entire post history, he only ever asks people questions and tries to get people to suspect Rainbows. He hasn't once given his opinion on anyone else.
He's either scum who was trying to keep the train rolling on Rainbows, or a townie who has contributed nearly nothing. As far as first day lynch chances go, I think this is a pretty good option.
##Vote: jampidampi
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I forgot to bold it. I'm awful at voting, apparently.
##Vote: jampidampi
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On another topic, I am very interested in what JarJar has to say. He's only made four posts, the last of which was nearly 24 hours ago, and all of his posts were related to his suspicion of kirby.
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Yeah, I was made to go eat lunch with my girlfriend halfway through. Here's what I've got:
jampidampi: If we're lynching people for cases that don't fucking make sense, then in the time we lynch jampidampi we should have lynched Rainbows twice. That's basically my feeling on him. Is he trying to get Rainbows lynched? Yes. Is his case pretty bad? Damn right it is. But is Rainbows's play helping town? No, not really, he's being irrational and flinging shit all over the place so trying to lynch him isn't even really a bad choice. But more on Rainbows in his section.
Rainbows: See above. If we lynch people for shitty cases we'd lynch Rainbows all week; I don't see what he's doing as helping town and the only thing stopping me from just voting Rainbows right now is that nothing he's doing really makes any sense from a scum perspective. That's absolutely the only thing because he has been all over the place all day and I just don't see why you would do that as scum. He's basically spent Day 1 tanking his town cred and then getting mad that he doesn't look towny; not exactly the best scum move. I'm writing him off until he cools the fuck down but I'll come back to him if nobody gets on the wagon of great justice.
Obzy: Scum if Rainbows is, town otherwise. You've been pretty well-reasoned but to be honest your sheep onto TRN and now onto jampi for basically doing the same thing as Rainbows is pretty iffy to me. If Rainbows gets lynched and flips red we need to grill you something hardcore. And re: your assertion about counter-claiming, there is no way in hell the real Vigi would actually claim, he'd just shoot Rainbows who would then flip red because there is no fucking reason to fake claim Vigi if you're town, especially when the case against you is awful.
TRN: No real reason to point out that I'm lurking if he's scum; he already has Rainbows shooting himself in the face all over the thread and that's such an easy target there's almost no reason to bring up anything else, especially when he's already OMGUS'd onto him. I don't think he's a very good lynch today.
JarJarDrinks: Has fewer posts than me and I've been lurking something fierce, but all of his posts have been devoted to tunneling jrkirby. Absolutely nothing he has done has actually helped town and "you're a little bit scummy" is pretty much the extent of his reasoning. At the very least jampidampi has been trying to get information out of people; it's not working, but that's just because nobody was actually even trying with him. JJD is trying to get by under the radar and that is not going to fly anymore. ##vote JarJarDrinks
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EBWOP: WRT obzy making an assertion about counter-claiming. That was Fishgle, sorry. Rest of the sentence stands.
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I want to make a case against JarJarDrinks.
Jarjar has been playing very lurky. There are only two players he has talked about: Me and Rainbows. His first post was a vote against me.
On April 05 2013 21:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:
K, just caught up.
I think jrkirby is my scummiest read at the moment. He votes rainbows pretty early. Then later on he tells us that he feels like he "might actually be a fatty, and is just acting stupid" BUT he feels like he has to vote for him because he's "helping the skinnies".
Anyone that votes for someone and then defends them is gonna read scum to me.
##vote: jrkirby
Barely any reasoning at all. None of his other posts expand on this reasoning. He says that he likes that rainbows is talking a lot, yet he himself barely says a thing.
On April 06 2013 04:06 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 03:45 jrkirby wrote:
What about you jarjar? What do you think about rainbows? or any other player for that matter? Because you've only talked about me so far. Reading rainbows as town mostly but that's due in part to believing that you're scum. He's talking alot which I like. Though he did that in the last game which had me fooled for quite a bit. My turn for a question: Why did you unvote?
When I call him out on it he just says this:
On April 06 2013 04:41 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 04:18 jrkirby wrote:
If you like people talking a lot, why have you been so quiet thus far? I'm here now. Right now you're my top scumread so I'm focusing on you. Like every post you make looks more and more scummy to me. So now you were voting for him but it wasn't a serious vote?
And then dissapears. For a whole day.
RECAP: Votes for little reason, gives reads on almost no one, lurks, claims he likes people who post a lot, and never posts.
Why not Rainbows:
+ Show Spoiler +Rainbows seems bad. But I don't want to lynch him tonight unless someone counterclaims vigilante. JarJarDrinks is a clearly much better vote than rainbows.
Why not TheRavensName:
+ Show Spoiler +Honestly Rainbows case against him seems a little bad. Maybe he's a little lurky, but not nearly as much as JarJarDrinks. I don't see any case where he's a better lynch. And I don't trust Rainbows even if he's not scum. If rainbows isn't scum, he's stupid.
Why not jampidampi:
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, I had a hunch against him before. Now the only real evidence is the crappy claim he made against rainbows. And there are good reasons to not like rainbows other than what he wrote. Also, just because you make a terrible argument doesn't make you scum. Theres no way this is a better day one lynch than JarJarDrinks.
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
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I wrote that before I saw saraf's post.
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@Saraf; That really is a good point that I missed too though lol - Even if it was fish and not me, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, the real vigi would just shoot Rain, if rain was able to be counterclaimed. + Show Spoiler +Although maybe he would counterclaim him if it looked like Rain wasn't going to be lynched and he wanted to use his shot somewhere else so really it's not entirely solid. A good point, though. ^^;
I concur that I would like to see Jarjar post more - and I'd like to see nobodywonder's take on this, since he's currently still on Kirby as well. (Honestly, I'd like to see Kirby's input too.) I think that they're the last few that haven't taken a stance given the new information - if I'm forgetting someone, they also need to take a stance - -;.
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Ah, and so kirby has. I want to see Jarjar post more before I would feel confident voting him - voting for a lurker when there's somebody I feel is scummy is a thing I do not feel comfortable with.
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So upon rereading, I can see how Rainbows might be a townie. So since there are more suspicious people than him:
##Unvote
These suspicious people are JarJarDrinks and Saraf. We'll start with JarJar.
All JarJar has done this game is call jrkirby scum. His read seems to be an overreaction to jrkirbys early vote on Rainbows. JarJar seems to think that jrkirby in his reasonin post kept his vote on Rainbows even if he thinks Rainbows is bad town. But to me jrkirbys vote reads more as a pressure vote: if Rainbows doesn't stop being stupid jrkirby will lynch him. Then he reads Rainbows as town because jrkirby is scum, but in the same post implies that Rainbows might be scum since in JarJars last game Rainbows totally fooled him as scum.
Saraf on the other hand started the game with some policy discussion. Not alignment indicative per se, but he has done very little of something else. He called Rainbows suspicious for missiterpreting his posts, but that can as easily be seen as being defensive. Saraf called jrkirby suspicious for stating that he had a hunch on someone being scum, but didn't mention who it was. This lines up with votes piling up on jrkirby, making it seem Saraf wanted to hop on the bandwagon. Then when he finally comes back, he fails to to call me, Rainbows and Ravens scum or town, just stating that we are not good lynches. He does have a good point on JarJar and is at least here giving his opinion on something.
Out of the suspcious people here, I find JarJar the most suspicious. You can this a vote for survival or scum trying to save himself with an easy bandwagon, but I think he is the scummiest.
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
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Is there anything aside from my case/tunnel on Rainbows that makes me scummy?
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On April 07 2013 04:39 Obzy wrote:@Saraf; That really is a good point that I missed too though lol - Even if it was fish and not me, I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, the real vigi would just shoot Rain, if rain was able to be counterclaimed. + Show Spoiler +Although maybe he would counterclaim him if it looked like Rain wasn't going to be lynched and he wanted to use his shot somewhere else so really it's not entirely solid. A good point, though. ^^;
If Rainbow did fakeclaim, I think the vigi counterclaiming at this point would be quite stupid. If it looks like Rain isn't going to by lynched and someone counterclaims, we might end up lynching the counterclaimer instead (or the Mafia could hit him tonight). Whereas, if he just waits and killed Rainbow at night, then claims tomorrow, we know we can trust him then and, since he only gets one kill per game, it makes the scum decide whether to hit the guy who is effectively green now, or to try to find a blue for night two.
Either way, if Rainbow is alive tomorrow, we can be certain he's telling the truth. Unless, I guess, the actual vigi doesn't do anything, but I can't see any possibility where the real vigi not killing rainbow is beneficial to the town.
Another possibility (if Rainbows is lying) is the real vigi hitting him tonight, and then not claiming tomorrow. That would be a bad move, in my opinion.
Follow my logic here
It is given that the scum will kill one townie per night (barring any Doctor getting lucky)
The scum want to hit blues for obvious reasons
Once the vigi has hit someone, he is essentially the same as a couch potato
The vigi should claim after he's hit someone to tempt the scum into hitting him instead of going for a blue
Make sense?
I guess the point of this is to convince people still voting for Rainbows that the best course of action is to not lynch him today. (and to give the vigi ideas if rainbows is lying)
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Moloch, your forgetting the possibility that isn't a vigilante in the game.
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On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote:
Is there anything aside from my case/tunnel on Rainbows that makes me scummy?
The thing I don't like about you is that every single opinion you've given so far this game has been about Rainbows. You have barely even mentioned anyone other name. You've mentioned several times how you want to get reads on people, and you ask generic questions, but never give an opinion on anything.
So, to answer your question, it's more of what you haven't done than what you have done.
JJD is in the same boat, but he has a much smaller sample size of posts to work with than you do. It's possible all of his were just context sensitive, so we'll have to see what he says when he posts again.
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On April 07 2013 05:10 jampidampi wrote:
Moloch, your forgetting the possibility that isn't a vigilante in the game.
That's possible?
Well, then. I'm going to have to rethink this.
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So you think that the early questions that forced others to actually take a stance and reason for it instead of wishy-washilly calling someone "maybe scum, maybe not" aren't protown?
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EPT
