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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 00:08 Vivax wrote: Not sure what to make of BM "claiming" snape like that. If I were to make a crazy guess, he's checking whether the real snape shows up contesting the claim, then say he posted some random shit cause he was drunk (cause that's what his posts look like ). And if the real snape doesn't show up, he will claim he's snape. That'd be pretty ballsy, but effective scumplay. Let's see what BM has to say regarding this. What's in your opinion the point of doing this as we can't know how many of each roles are in the game? If there is someone who claims snape, why can't BM be another one? TRN and Palmar are probably town. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 00:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's in your opinion the point of doing this as we can't know how many of each roles are in the game? If there is someone who claims snape, why can't BM be another one? Vivax could you answer this? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 01:11 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + I don't think there can be two self-aware millers. Don't see much point in discussing that atm, why does it concern you at this point? BM didn't even answer yet. Because the OP clearly states there can be multiple number of same roles, so discussing if there are one or more self-aware millers in stupid in the first place. Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched. ##Vote: Bill Murray | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 01:11 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + I don't think there can be two self-aware millers. Don't see much point in discussing that atm, why does it concern you at this point? BM didn't even answer yet. What concerns me about you on this is the following: You state that there is no reason to discuss this atm, yet you are giving BM an out in the first place by discussing the matter and saying this kinda stuff: he posted some random shit cause he was drunk (cause that's what his posts look like ).And if the real snape doesn't show up, he will claim he's snape. Why are you so eager to give BM the "right" answers if you want him to expalin himself? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 01:23 kushm4sta wrote: WE knew that's what VE meant because we are town. Scum prob didn't know what he meant. Now you just explained it to them. I think that ship sailed already. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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How about we lynch the guy who claimed miller? | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:34 kushm4sta wrote: Millers should all follow BM's example and claim. No, that's stupid. | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:36 kushm4sta wrote: self aware millers should always claim. that is a simple fact of the game. there is no downside to it. Yes there is, if you don't know if they even exist/how many of them there are. Everyone who claims miller should be lynched. | ||
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On April 22 2013 03:01 getmoript wrote: It's me and Marv, but really more like reverse shadowing or something similar. Honestly VE, I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. Let me get this straight. This is geript and marv both and you are both playing? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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Sharrant. Will be explaining in a bit, making food right now. | ||
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On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote: One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more. Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.) Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy. About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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- Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN telling him those games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 06:43 Vivax wrote: Where does TRN try to figure out things? Tbh I kinda have you both as scummy along a few others, so your defense of TRN strikes me especially. I don't really see anything that could give me a reason to think he's town, but if you're so kind, could you point it out? Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote: /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes? | ||
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I already asked you once to answer me. If you are willing to continuosly ignore my questions i make my own conclusions about that. If you find that matter not worth discussing that's fine, i'm not gonna tunnel you into answering questions, there is no point in doing so. I didn't find anything else worth discussing at that point. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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he posted some random shit cause he was drunk (cause that's what his posts look like ) | ||
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Ehh.. You say if he is claiming miller or not claiming miller he is scummy. So did you think he was claiming miller or not, joking, or what's the purpose of you this post? Yes, and that was after i questioned you, so that's irrelevant. I didn't take anything out of the context imo. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I did reach a conclusion about policy lynching BM: " I'd rather spend today's lynch on scum, and I need to see more from BM to know if he is." And about millers in general: "At this point I would say that miller's should claim if they feel that they're in danger of wasting a detective action (and not before that point), but that all miller claims should be treated as a mark against the player, rather than a scum claim." I am not trying to "policy lynch" BM. I think BM is scum. Bringing up the miller policy into this discussion adds nothing, because it's irrelevant regarding my reasons for wanting to lynch BM. The last part of your case is even weaker, I don't think it even needs to be touched upon. So you really think it's TRN's job to find all his games to you? Do you want him to analyze them for you aswell? Now see, in that quote you actually say "I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia". But wasn't part of your case on me that " It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that." So you say he is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes? I don't see how you can view him as townie while acknowledging that he is not scum hunting and still try and make the case on me that you did. Your reads do not match up. There is something wrong here. There are a lot of players who have not done scumhunting. TRN posted a comment on the game start -> people started question him -> he went defensive. I don't see how that is scummy for a new player whose first non-newbie game this is. My scumread on you is not strong at all, at least you did point him into doing something productive, asked him about who he does want to lynch and about Oats. So we'll see whta he answers. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 22 2013 07:28 Vivax wrote: Fuck knows if he was claiming miller, I don't know. No one knows until he tells us. But I said that it could have been a scum move. If he soft-claims miller like that it could lure out town millers, and then he could say that he posted some drunkard stuff to defend himself against their accusations of him fakeclaiming. If, on the other hand, no townie reacts to his claim, he might feel safe to fakeclaim miller for himself. You seem to be the only one having trouble understanding my post. Purpose of my post was to draw attention to BM's strange behaviour, and taking away in advance whatever malicious intentions he might have had. Fine, i misunderstood then. Guess we had the same intention, i just thought you were being wishy-washy about it and just saying things for sake of saying things. Well i got my vote on him and want him to respond. | ||
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On April 22 2013 07:41 Vivax wrote: Rayn, how's it going read-wise? Picked up anything else besides BM? I currently have 8 candidates as possible scum, you? Geript's reads post was pretty awful with lots of maybe's, wouldn't mind lynching him. Ace seems like he is not willing to do much. I didn't really understand the Sylencia-stuff yamato pointed out. Maybe it's because English is not my mother tongue, i just don't see how he was "little too nervous". I don't think Oats has done anything alignment indicative. Sharrant seems to be not understanding what i'm trying to say. Same could be said about kush, although i think he's town. I think you are town. I think TRN & Palmar are town aswell. That's pretty much everything i have read atm. | ||
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I could lynch Hopeless. I didn't like him calling out Palmar on his townread on Vivax and not calling out other people who stated townreads in thread. Other than that there is very little in his filter. I find his exchange with kush (about VE's post) kinda odd.. First he says he does not understand what VE was talking about, and later it changes into "How does it make VE town", when people explain it to him. I see nothing wrong with GiygaS, needs to post more. Drazak better post something good when he decides to post. He took 40min to go through 2 pages.. Hmm.. | ||
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Call my vote a policy lynch vote or whatever, i really don't care before BM comes in and answers. I have only talked about policy lynch stuff when other people have brought that topic up. | ||
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What is your exact reasoning for voting for BM. Give me one paragraph, with your thought process. If it's policy, tell me it's policy and the exact policy. If you have other reasoning for it, please detail that reasoning to the best of your ability. I think there is no reason for a townie to claim miller for the reasons i explained before. If BM was not in fact claiming miller, he should have a damn good reason why he decided to post what he did, because posting (joking?) that as town does not make any sense. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:31 Vivax wrote: Mostly meta differences between his town and scum play. You'll hear the exact reasons once I feel like making a case. Could you see WoS being scum or do you feel safe in assuming he's town? I'm gonna look more into Oats tomorrow when i wake up. Atm i'm leaning more onto WoS being town, mainly because afaik he has never rolled scum (at least before this game) and him claiming town in his early post reads out genuine to me. But that being said: I want to hear more from CC or kush at the moment. WoS: Why do you want to hear more specifically from those guys? | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:03 Sharrant wrote: I am treating him the same as everyone else. As I stated, I am willfully ignoring everything involving the hydra, Marv, and BH's mod actions. If he is incredibly scummy why are you not voting for him? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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Could you go through Hopeless' & Sharrant's filters and give your thoughts about them? | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:06 GiygaS wrote: Oats still seems scummy to me. His attitude around that accusation is weird to me, plus he was actively trying to dissuade a town read that VE had instead of actively hunting for scum. His one scum post was against geript, which we now know is pseudo-confirmed :/ I want to see some more posts from him , but until then ##Vote Oatsmaster. As this was your last post before that, the part where you mention Oats: #2: I honestly don't know what to think of this strange heuristic thing, and I'm honestly more interested to see how oats responds to Palmar, and how Palmar responds to that. I'm overall getting a town-read on Vivax since as Cheesecake said, recklessness is usually a town trait.It's a pretty weak town read, but I just want to get out of this stupid argument that is really getting us nowhere now. What made you vote for Oats now but not before? What has changed between these posts of yours? | ||
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@Rayn, not really feeling a Sharrant lynch anytime in the near foreseeable future. The BM situation should be resolved tonight (hopefully). As far as TRN it's not so much that he is scummy, it's that he's lacking qualities that point to townie. He's deserving of scrutiny and I am keeping my eye on him as a possible candidate for today. Who's your second choice for lynch today and why? Yeah tbh i'm not willing to lynch Sharrant atm. Maybe it's just my hatred towards things i find to be really annoying (like refusing to search people's games by yourself and just waiting for them to point out what games they have played here). I know from personal experience that TRN is really easy person to discredit and to get defensive (look at NMXXXIX for example). I think that's what happened with TRN/Vivax here, and i don't see the same pattern when i read TRN game where he was scum on. I thought Sharrant's case was just creating an easy lynch wagon, but i can now see that people think TRN's actions as scummy. I hope TRN answers Sharrant's questions and gives some thoughts about the happenings so far when he gets back. Hopeless / Geript atm. Those two for reasons i have already pointed out in thread. GiygaS is looking worse aswell. | ||
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On April 22 2013 10:33 GiygaS wrote: You being 'wrong' isn't really anything against you, I just figured I might as well add it in. Actively trying to spread suspicion by stopping town reads is what scum wants to do. When I read it it seemed to me that you wanted to dissuade a town read. Thanks kush, haha. The bolded part. How did you miss that's exactly what Hopeless is doing? | ||
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Also i still don't understand what made you vote Oats when you did and not earlier. | ||
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Let's talk about WoS. Just read his filter and he is not really seeming to have any strong opinions about anything, just commenting on stuff. | ||
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On April 22 2013 11:17 kushm4sta wrote: rayn.. not every player is tunnel central like you. Oats and Hopeless are who I would lynch at this point I guess... The problem is that they ALWAYS look scummy to me. Your filter is nearly as long as mine and you have not done shit besides telling the thread why some people are in your opinion town and acting as GiygaS' lawyer. Call my play tunneling or whatever you want to, but you really should start doing something to find mafia soon.. | ||
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On April 22 2013 11:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, that and the fact that he didn't vote for Oats in the first place (when he posted last time - his three point post). Suddenly Oats has become a good enough candidate to vote for now, when he has not posted between those posts. I'm interested in knowing what made him change his mind. Let's talk about WoS. Just read his filter and he is not really seeming to have any strong opinions about anything, just commenting on stuff. What do you think? | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:24 Sharrant wrote: He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player. Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for. I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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That's the worst reasoning to backpedal from a scumread i have ever heard. On top of that, Sharrant obviously hasn't even read why i think TRN is town. Hint: The post where i answer OO about him. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:59 kushm4sta wrote: SHARRANT and RAYNE plz stfu talking to each other / about each other. i think i speak for everyone when I say this...tldr for realz Can you stop making these nonsense shit comments you have been doing all game and maybe tell us who do you want to lynch and why? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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##Unvote: Bill Murray I really hate your play. I agree with BC you should be vigged asap. Then. This is the post where Sharrant votes for me: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 07:45 Sharrant wrote: This needs pointing out. One: I did not accuse you of trying to policy lynch Bill Murray. What you quoted at the top there, that is about you saying I did not come to a conclusion about policy lynching miller claims. It's interesting that you feel the need to be defensive about that. Two: You are hilariously hung up on me asking for his games. If he's a townie, then he should be all for establishing his townieness. I am not going to search through other forums to try and find where he may have possibly played, especially given he could have played under any name he wanted. You think that asking that automatically means that I have not looked at his games on TL. I'm still interested on why you think this is so scummy? It's actually gotten to the point I find this hilarious. Three: You're definitely right, you have a big case on BM, and it has nothing to do with policy. I had no opinion of you trying to lynch Bill Murray, I have no idea yet if he's a good lynch or not. But how do you explain that? The thing you have posted about most in this game, is policy lynching BM and anyone else who does what he did. ##unvote:TheRavensName ##Vote:Raynepelikoneet And his post where he explains his scumread on me: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? Now, what do we have here? Look at the posts very closely. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in his first post that in any way implies this is actually why Sharrant thinks i am scum (as his theory suggests in the second post i quoted). There is nothing between these posts that suggests Sharrant thinks this is why i am scum. This is a bullshit theory in the first place. If he did actually have this theory at that time, who are the people Sharrant should have been looking into between these posts? People who did support his TRN vote. Those people are no other than Vivax. What are Sharrant's interactions with Vivax during this time. He agreed with Vivax that Hopeless is an okay lynch. Makes any sense? Because to me it doesn't. Sharrant's read on TRN quickly changes from possibly scum to likely town when TRN says "Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before". First of all i would like to know what this means, that i would defend a newbie townie to gain town credit when he is lynched as me being mafia? Second of all, i have never said anything like that to TRN.. ever.. I fucking went through my own filter from NMXXXIX to see if i had actually said something like that, i havn't. Sharrant however believes his scumread instantly when they say something like that, doesn't want TRN to explain exactly where i have told him so. Seems like he knows TRN is town in the first place, or for some other reasons does not want to question TRN's statement and takes it as face value. ##Vote: Sharrant | ||
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On April 22 2013 19:47 Vivax wrote: Sharrant has actually pointed out how you came up with saying that you don't want to policy lynch BM, but lynch him cause he's scum, whereas in earlier posts you kept saying "lynch everyone who claims miller". Yes but in the latest post of his that's no longer a reason for me to be mafia (as he between those posts i quoted said he agreed with my explanation). The reason for me being mafia suddenly changes into "rayn is trying to gain credit by lynching town!TRN" which definitely does not hold water. Can you read Sharrant's filter and tell me how do you think he could possibly have ended up into that kind of a conclusion? I can't see it, there is nothing that points in that direction before him flat out saying so to ShiaoPi. Same question could be asked from kush. Discretit my case if you think it's bad, don't discredit me without saying why you think my case is bad. | ||
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Looking back at it the Meta defense was pretty terrible, seeing as how in the same game he said that defending noob towns that would flip such was an easy scum tactic and one he had his partner use.... so yay... unsure what to think again. Point out to me where i have ever said so. For the record, Sharrant turned this into: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). First of all, this is a straight out twisting TRN's words. TRN has not said i have done something like that, he said i had my partner do so. Second, i have not said so, ever, and Sharrant is trusting his scumread TRN (at that time) without wanting to know where i have said so. | ||
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Can you read Sharrant's filter and tell me how do you think he could possibly have ended up into that kind of a conclusion? ..and not just flip-flop around the question and the case. | ||
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I really need some people who can actually think here. I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with kush/Hopeless/Sylencia because they clearly can't read. | ||
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On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote: It's a good try, Rayne, but no. Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back. The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter. I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him. The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter. If you can't understand that, I can't help you. Ahh so you went back on the policy lynch thing. Then why did you say you agreed with me? I will deal with this post after BM gets back, but as I have agreed with Rayne I will not discuss this any farther until such time. I did not know if BM claimed miller or not, that's the sole reason why it can't be a policy lynch. Yes, i would lynch anyone who claimed miller on D1, but i can't policy lynch BM because i didn't know if he claimed miller or not, so this particular situation is not a disguise to policy lynch someone because it CANNOT BE SO IN THE FIRST PLACE! Fuck, why is reading so hard for you guys? - Why did you agree with your scumread TRN about me saying stuff that i have never said? - Why did you make a big post focusing on entire different things on me being scum than in the post you voted me on? - Why did you agree with me and now again backpedal from your latest theory? | ||
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I'll probably take hopeless out of my scumspects for now. Not every bad idea is necessarily a scum agenda, meh. I do hold in high regard that he actually goes against Rayn, as he's another guy I'd lynch. That doesn't tell shit because i'm town. | ||
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"If it wasn't, he needs to explain this:" | ||
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On April 23 2013 02:03 Hopeless1der wrote: You didn't give a shit when you voted him Note that your vote post cites a lynch all miller claims as a policy for your vote. raynpelikoneet, Do you disagree? This is a 'yes' or 'no' question specifically referencing whether or not you used a policy to justify your initial vote on Bill Murray. If you call it a policy that is attached only to this particular situation (meaning this game, with this setup where we do not know how many of the roles are in play) then no, i don't disagree. I hate that this discussion has come to the point if my understanding of a "policy lynch" is the same or different than for other people and if you are really going to lynch me for that i suggest, when i flip town, that you take a deep look in the mirror and think about who was arguing about semantics without looking into my explanation for my vote, and who did actually look at it and still went with this stupid shit. I'm done with this issue, i'm not going to expain over and over again for my reasons for voting BM in the first place. If you lynch me for it, fine. If you don't, i hope you never bring this point up again so i can do something productive instead. Vivax: I don't like lynching Hopeless anymore. His explanation about his behaviour early in the game is well enough justified for me. I'm okay with lynching Oats or yamato. Oats does not look anything like his usual town play and yamato is not doing shit. I would not oppose GiygaS either. | ||
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##Unvote: Sharrant | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 00:31 Palmar wrote: List of probably town: Bill Murray getmoript (QT thing) Vivax slot machine dude hopeless list of maybe town: Ace grush cheesecake kush Sylencia TheRavensName list of who knows: WaveofShadow Tube Drazak Clarity_nl Sharrant Yamato77 ShiaoPi list of bloodycobblers: BloodyCobbler list of somewhat scummy fuckers (based on absolutely nothing): DoctorHelvetica ObviousOne Oatsmaster giggles I disagree with BM (would put him on "who knows"), TRN (probably town), geript (reasons, i think he's town), and i dunno where is VE, if he is giggles i'd put him up to "who knows". I have no idea about grush. | ||
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##Vote: yamato77 It would be nice if you put your votes on this thread aswell, it would be easier to tell when people actually vote without comparing times from the voting thread. | ||
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happy b day rayn wut? | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I already answered that question on the previous page Sorry, question worded badly. What differs OO from the other people who think the same? | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Hes good enough to know better. He dropped the opinion in a giant wall of useless text, and used it as a way to marginally work in a reason to vote for you. Given that it is an absolutely wrong opinion, and one that only a scum could stand behind to lynch someone (unless hes extremely bad) he must be scum. That's what i was wondering, mainly. The reason i asked about this is because i have trouble reading OO correctly. I totally misread him in Red, and in PYP i was hesitant to express my suspicion on him because of my terrible read on him in Red. | ||
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- Last game he was scum in (not talking about the hydra game i hydra'd with him, as we talked ~10min in total as both of us had no time to do anything), in Ego he showed same kind of behaviour towards people than in this game. When D1 lynch candidates were discussed, Oats did not give any opinion on them at all. He talked about entirely different stuff. What i remember from Red he tried to take part in every discussion he found important at any time. I don't see him doing that here, he is only answering questions about himself and questioning people about their read on him. ##Unvote: yamato77 ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:35 yamato77 wrote: The fact that he refused to take a real stance on me/Oats and made an "original" case on Sharrant. Assuming you are town you know you are town. Oats was town. Those were the two wagons there were at the time. Why would in your opinion mafia!Clarity make a case on Sharrant and not agree with BC/Vivax on the cases (like many other people did)? How is it more beneficial to him, because he know he will be questioned about it? Why not just take an easy way out and vote for one of the townie candidates? | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:37 Vivax wrote: Read the thread, no, just my filter please. At least that. -.--------- Is this more likely to come from mafia!Clarity now that we know Oats flipped town? Why not just agree with your case on Oats? | ||
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I agree that Clarity's actions after that case are kinda... meh.. But i think the case he made in the manner he made that should not be a scumtell, at least for you yamato. | ||
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I think there is more town than mafia motivation for Clarity to enter the thread in a way he did (unless yamato is mafia), but there are other points that i would like to look into about him (especially his contributions after that, and his promises to read BC/GiygaS/ShiaoPi which are not fullfilled). | ||
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I just want to find out why you guys think that's important. | ||
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Why did clarity say that he felt the urge to post something quickly cause he thought his late entrance looked bad? How was it of any concern to him at that point. Actually, that's a good point that i missed. I didn't read "Guess I felt like contributing something fresh since I felt guilty for missing the start of the game" like that. why did he avoid to comment on the points against yamato and Oats and instead called them policy lynches, which is like the laziest, most ineffective way for purposes of getting to a better lynch? That's the thing that concerns me about Clarity, mainly. The other thing is that he promised to look onto other people and has not done so yet, but has posted some nonsense since. | ||
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On April 24 2013 06:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Because I'd like to hear his opinion on arguably the most important thing that has gone down in the thread thus far. It doesn't really matter what he says about Oats as he already knows the results and it's his genuine thoughts or WIFOM and you have no way of telling which is it. | ||
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On April 24 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: WoS: Why is Sharrant the only one you want to have thoughts from regarding late D1? after all he is your town read. Why don't you want to question your scumreads instead? On April 24 2013 08:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also what do you make of this little chat of ours with Clarity? And most importantly. Who do you think is scum and why? | ||
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Do you think Clarity's case was well thought out? I think he only pointed out the facts that speak against Sharrant from his filter and left Sharrant's real contributions out. | ||
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Another thing i find odd: On April 24 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey Sharrant, where you at bro? Any thoughts on yamato/Oats since you seem to have conveniently missed it entirely? Updated thoughts on Rayn/Shiao? How the hell WoS can ask Sharrant's updated read on ShiaoPi? From what i can tell Sharrant has never said what he thinks about ShiaoPi, only scumreads he has given out are me/Hopeless. Wtf is this shit? | ||
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First he makes a case on TRN. The case in itself is not bad if you have never seen how TRN plays. But there is this question: Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere? I call him out for this question which i find to be scummy. Sharrant's answer is: The last part of your case is even weaker, I don't think it even needs to be touched upon. Sharrant later on calls me out for saying; "So you say TRN is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes?". This is correct, mainly because Sharrant and Vivax both attacked TRN early on in the game, after that TRN went defensive and answered their questions. Sharrant is even adding more fuel into the fire by asking TRN to point him to his games on TL. Why do you think it is TRN's (or anyone other than yours) job to guide you into his past games? And why do you call me out for poining out the fact (as i have witnessed it myself) that TRN is easy to sidetrack from what he is supposed to do -> find mafia? Next thing. Sharrant's case on me. His points against me are; BM-policy lynch discussion (understandable as i failed to explain myself clearly enough) and that i called him scummy for asking TRN to point him to his last games. Which i still think is scummy. Next i explain him my BM vote, he is pleased with my answer, at least that reads so to me. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 08:40 Sharrant wrote: I see. I'll wait until Bill Murray is back in the thread before I say anything more about this then, if I feel the need to say anything more. Let's give ourselves another topic then. Pick a player who you would like to discuss with me, and I will read their filter while I cook and eat. I would suggest Mr. Cheesecake, but I would prefer it if you picked the candidate for discussion. In the same quote he asks me to pick a player to discuss. Why do you want me, your scumread to pick a player to discuss? If i thought you were scum i would be damn sure i wanted to pick the people we discuss (other scummy people). After that we discuss WoS and GiygaS. I also ask him about geript. I am the one asking all the questions. Note that Sharrant would have liked to discuss Mr.Cheesecake. If i am your scumread, why do you allow me to drive the discussion between us? Why do you not want to find out my scumbuddies when talking with me? Then Sharrant suddenly changes his scumread on TRN into null/leaning town. The reason is TRN saying i have told him i would use weak townies as town-credit-collectors by defending them. Sharrant takes this at face value. TRN was your scumread at that time, why didn't you take any action to figure out if he was telling the truth or not, as he wasn't? Then comes in his theory (based on what TRN said) about me trying to gain town-credit for TRN's lynch. The theory is ridiculous in the first place, if people can't see why idk what to say. He also makes a big post about it: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? At the end of that post he also says his scumread on me has weakened. After that i vote for Sharrant. This is his answer to the case: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote: It's a good try, Rayne, but no. Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back. The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter. I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him. The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter. If you can't understand that, I can't help you. Now, suddenly i am 100% scum again. But no more is my town-credit-gaining a reason why i am scum. It's all back to the point that i "disguised my policy lynch vote on BM into something else". But he was already okay with my answer. Hell, he does not even answer anything to my case. Why did you make a big post about the theory of me trying to gain credit from defending town!TRN, if it isn't even part of the case against me, what's the point? TLDR; 1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him? 2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that? 3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion? 4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread? 5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread? And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour. | ||
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TLDR; 1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him? 2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that? 3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion? 4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread? 5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread? And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour. | ||
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I'm kinda puzzled, how do you play this game? | ||
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Why exactly? Those are pretty scummy things imo. On April 24 2013 17:37 Ace wrote: @rayne: yamato is doing a lot of talking for Sharrant which amazes me, because he somehow knows this guy is def Town and knows his thought process. Until Sharrant shows up you're talking to the wrong guy. He's talking nonsense. No matter, i want a better read on yamato aswell. If he thinks he can follow Sharrant's train of thought it's fine. I can't. | ||
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Now Sharrant has a scumread on Hopeless (which he has never followed up with anything), and then he has gone after me. Did you take a look at my filter and what reads i have given? You disagree with my read on Sharrant, that's for sure. What about the other reads? It it really so that i have been after Sharrant the whole game? | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:43 yamato77 wrote: IMO, they aren't. They don't matter at all. They're fabrications. omfg, i don't know if you are incredibly dumb or scum. | ||
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- If we discussed reads here, would you be okay with me telling who we discuss and asking all the questions? You would just answer me and ask nothing. - If i said now that "Ace told me the other game that when he says "nullifying a scum read" he is always scum" would you believe me straight up and go lynch Ace? | ||
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3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion? 4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread? | ||
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See what i did there? Sounds familiar? | ||
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Do you think this is townie behaviour and do you think think this is what Sharrant did: [/quote] | ||
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I asked Clarity about ShiaoPi because he promised to look into those three people. ShiaoPi didn't interest me much at that time. I wanted to see what Clarity came up on those people, cos i think Clarity is scum and if he looked at people i thought he was at least looking into people who he thought were scum when he was reading the thread. Turned out no.. Oh and i agree with the points you brought up against ShiaoPi. Sharrant: I understand you much better now. We certainly have quite a different way of approaching the game and now i can see your thought process behind your actions. I disagree with some of them being the "best way" to approach the situation but i understand you. I know i am sometimes bad at explaining stuff but i hope you can also look at what i have said from my PoV and at least try to understand why i am saying stuff i am. With that being said, here's my full list of reads. I don't care to make big paragraphs about people i find scummy, just a short summary, and i don't care to explain my townreads atm: Bill Murray Kushm4sta TheRavensName Vivax Grush57 getmoript Sharrant Hopeless1der Palmar - This is extremely shady. Palmar is either incredibly lazy or scum, but i put him on "likely town" because he seems to share a good portion of my reads. Null: Stutters695 - can't say much Tube - can't say much Drazak - can't say much Ace - honestly could be either way. i have a hard time reading him, brings up good points, i'm just not sure if they are against dumb townies or if those people are actually mafia BloodyCobbler - brings up some good points but there is so so little he has done. should share his wisdom more if town Yamato77 - i really dunno what to say. some stuff looks town, some stuff looks incredibly anti-town Scummy side of null: Mr. Cheesecake - Should do something other than tell people how town he is VisceraEyes - goes into same category with Palmar, except that i don't see anything particularly townie he has done ObviousOne - I have really hard time reading him. I thought he was mafia before, but his reads made me feel better about him Sylencia - big summary post of what some people have done and that's basically it.. WaveofShadow - what me + TRN said earlier today GiygaS - Did weird stuff on D1, especially his answers to me were not pleasing Clarity_nl - What has been brought up today ShiaoPi - What Vivax said If you got questions, ask me and i'll answer. | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:23 Sylencia wrote: I've been going through people as a collection (hence why the list is so messy), yet going through them I found myself to become more suspicious of VE and grush so far. Unless something pretty much proves them to be innocent, I don't generally find true town reads since it's dependent on having information you don't have. In any case, no one on that list (other than myself) I can say that I have a strong town read on, Wave of Shadow is probably the person on that current list I have the least suspicion on, but in any case, I am more concerned with the ones I find most suspicious, not the least. Wtf man, i though I was definitely scum as you voted for me (for reasons i don't even understand) on D1. Y U no hate me anymore? | ||
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On April 25 2013 03:39 getmoript wrote: @rayn/TRN what do you think of my points on Sylencia? I think Sylencia gets a downgrade to the red list in my reads. | ||
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tbh i'm known of shitfests between townies. :D dunno if that's a good or bad thing. | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:53 kushm4sta wrote: inb4 scumpalmar was roleblocked and thats why theres only 1 nk Mafia factional KP can't be blocked. | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:07 kushm4sta wrote: mafia factional KP can't be blocked?? then he is pretty close to confirmed town as far as im concerned. Not necessarily, if someone else got docced and he was just jailed/RB'd. But likely yes. | ||
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Rayn I'm not sure I understand. Why did Sharant go from being a scum target for you to instant town? Seeing as how I'm not as sure on my read outside of a town leniancy on Sharant, can you explain and convert me to your belief? Because whether or not he is right or wrong i can now understand his thought process about what he has said, and it makes sense to me from town PoV. VE: Isn't mafia jailer kinda roleblocker, at least on N1? What makes you think otherwise? | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Jailer is the only roleblocker unless I'm missing something...there is no scum or town "Roleblocker" Mafia jailer is nothing more than a roleblocker on N1, as vigis can't shoot on N1. There is no reason why anyone who is town would assume mafia would block one of their own, or why town jailor would block an assumed mafia dude. What VE says here is dumb and misleading. And VE is not dumb. | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:20 Ace wrote: rayne VE has trouble reading the OP lol That's kinda funny because he knew there was no roleblocker and that jailers are the only roleblockers. So is he reading the OP only partly? | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:21 getmoript wrote: Rayn correct me if I'm wrong, but your theory is that scum jailed Palmar and double stacked Vivax. Right? No, i'm saying it's likely that Palmar was jailed by town and scum shot him. | ||
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With 25 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch. WE GOTZ SOULSZZZZ HERE!! BEWARE! | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Vivax' case on Shiao is strong, and I think he's a high priority target for today. ##Unvote ##Vote: ShiaoPi Vivax' points were "Low involvement, opportunistic returns to the thread" which I largely agree with. I'd add "conveniently keeping options open". Observe. Look at the bolded statement. In no way does this post give a further opinion on Sharrant. Up to this post, he's ONLY expressed suspicion for Sharrant - but never calls him scum or even scummy. In fact, he never calls ANYONE scum OR scummy in the entire game. His whole filter is nothing but a smoke-screen, intended to make him look like he's paying attention to the game. But you'll notice that he never comments on anything that isn't Bill Murray or The Sharrant Discussion. And this is in spite of "shittons of catch up". ShiaoPi should be the lynch today imo. It was Vivax' last wish, and his case is strong. VE, who have you called scum in this game before this case? | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Rayn what does that have to do with anything? That's not even my point - my point is that Sharrant is the only person Shiao EVEN MIGHT POSSIBLY think is scum based on his posts. You have posted like 2x what ShiaoPi has. I'm not saying he is town, but you are scum for sure. You are throwing shit left and right, have no reads at all or they are based on shit, you are not interested in finding scum at all. That's it. | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote: Hey, VE, are you at all interested in lynching Clarity, or just ShiaoPi? I'm kinda interested in the fact that all my scum/null reads who did not vote for VE, voted for ShiaoPi and didn't mention Clarity at all. | ||
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Any other people you feel are scummy and being overlooked, Rayn? What do you mean? | ||
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On April 25 2013 10:33 VisceraEyes wrote: How do you feel about ShiaoPi rayn? Probably scum. | ||
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Ace why is VE not scum? Is there anything you find townie in his posts? | ||
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On April 25 2013 11:38 Ace wrote: I think he's more useless than Scum even with the small red flags earlier. I'm also hoping other people show up and weigh in before I vote for VE. We don't need a quick lynch today. I agree with the quick hammer thing, bad memories.. But i don't just see nothing he has done that's townielike. | ||
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On April 26 2013 01:47 GiygaS wrote: Your point on Ace could be disturbingly true. Anti town play that caused suspicion may have made him play more pro town today, which explains his behavior. ##Vote Ace You are voting for Ace because he looks town? And you just said at the last page BC is red and Ace is null. Can you explain the logic? | ||
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The place and even more the way you dropped your vote is really fishy. Why don't you want to lynch one of your red reads? | ||
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Vivax was shot because he was on the right track and town read for like everyone. This means probably at least one of ShiaoPi / Clarity is mafia. If Vivax was double stacked he was likely even more right in his reads. But i don't think this is the case here. It's clear that whoever jailed Palmar thought he was town. Town jailers do not jail offensively and mafia jailers do not jail defensively on N1. As there is no other flip than Vivax' it's highly likely that Palmar was shot, because i can't see who else scum would have shot over him. I'm not even going to go to the fact that this would also require a doctor to target the same (other than Palmar) target. So unless someone else claims shot / roleblocked it's very likely that Palmar got shot and is town. I don't like ShiaoPi lynch because it was brought up by VE who i think is scum. If Vivax was right on both of ShiaoPi/Clarity then it doesn't matter, but if one of them is town it's probably ShiaoPi. As i think Palmar is town, i do not think he is wrong about VE. But if VE is not gonna get lynched today, i'm going to vote for Clarity over ShiaoPi. Now, you want to bring up an entirely different target in BC. Understandable, as you seem to think he is mafia. But you also bring up reasons why ShiaoPi/Clarity might be town. That is something i do not understand. If you think BC is better lynch than them, fine, push his lynch. But the way to do it is not by discrediting other people's cases unless you actually think they are town, which you don't seem to. | ||
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I don't really see your / BC's point against Palmar here. | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote: He did, and even in the middle of the game when he posted his reads Oats was low on the ranking. Except look at the ranking itself. Also I'm not even on his radar, but out of nowhere he's got me as his #1 scumread? He doesn't fucking CARE Rayne. AT ALL. rofl VE. He didn't include you into the lise because he voted for you right after. Idk what to say.. | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar, conversely, made one post at the very beginning of the game and that was it for his thougths on Oats. If you're counting that as "meaningful contribution to the Oats case" then there's either something seriously wrong with your metric or you're fucking scum. Take your pick, I'm done fucking talking to you unless you're willing to get your head out of your Palmar doesn't always express his thoughts clearly, that's what i have learned during the last couple of games. I'm not sure he is 100% town but his reads seem accurate. To me it seems like your case on him is you trying to make the evidence (which i think is false) to fit your case and your case on him points more to you or even Ace being scum than him, because if we are honest here, neither of you have done jack shit to find scum this game. That's what i think, and that's why i think we should lynch you. | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote: To be fair you are also one of the few who thinks I'm town as well. However if anyone compared your play here to boardwalk perhaps they would see a different VE. I find it unlikely to have someones scum game change this drastically in one game. Let alone a scum who would defend a town BC when it would be more advantageous to let me die. Since when have you been in danger of being lynched? | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote: You're just making shit up. I've done what I can to find scum. Tell me why my game is lacking. I'm in here VERY OBVIOUSLY trying to find the best lynch for today. You and Palmar are both just attesting that "I haven't done shit" this game and it's a COMPLETE FUCKING FABRICATION. What has Palmar done to find scum rayne? WHAT? That's your only reasoning for thinking I'm scum apparently, but WHAT IN THE FUCK HAS PALMAR DONE TO FIND SCUM?! You have not done anything to find scum. I think it's very clear. You voted for geript with no reasoning, then voted for BM with no reasoning, voted yamato purely because of OMGUS. Then voted for Oats with this: On April 23 2013 06:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oats' early game looks like a weak attempt at aggression too. He's quick with accusations, but slow with follow-up or explanation. This is a stark contrast from previous games I've played with him as town when he's all over the thread dumping opinions and calling people out. I could get behind an Oats lynch. This is what most people figured out added to Vivax' case, at least i did aswell. Went wrong there. On D2 you voted for ShiaoPi based on what Vivax said before. You have failed to contribute to anything relevant that has been going on in thread in D1-N1. How is this "doing anything"? I agree that Palmar has not done anything to find scum. Why i am voting for you instead of him is because his reads are basically the same as mine. | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Read Palmars filter, tell me what hes done and where VE lied. All I see is an excuse for him made by you and not him. If I was being reamed for not expressing myself in detail why is Palmar getting off the hook for the same shite? VE lied when he said Palmar had no scumread on him when he voted for him, and presented Palmar's list of reads as "evidence". Palmar left out VE purposely because he voted for him right after. | ||
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On April 26 2013 07:03 VisceraEyes wrote: YOU SAID I CONTRIBUTED SOMETHING AND THEN ASKED HOW THAT IS CONTRIBUTING ANYTHING LMAO A single contribution in 7 pages of filter which is an addition to a case already made and accepted by many people. That's not much in my eyes. | ||
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On April 26 2013 07:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: A single contribution in 7 pages of filter which is an addition to a case already made and accepted by many people. That's not much in my eyes. rofl, actually that is something Vivax even brought up in his case: His play differs a lot from his town play, where he can be disruptive, but is also ballsy and involved. In Boardwalk empire he played an aggressive early game, not afraid to tunnel players, or to be annoying with his aggression. So it makes it even less of a contribution.. | ||
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I want to see yamato's response to your case. That's ~where I'm at. This. How the fuck am i supposed to read this other than that you agree with BC's points against yamato? | ||
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On April 26 2013 07:50 VisceraEyes wrote: How about "I'm waiting to hear from yamato before commenting"? You know....exactly what it says? But BC didn't even ask you about yamato. Why did you think it was necessary to say that in the first place if you didn't think BC (your town read) is on the right track? I'm really confused about this... | ||
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On April 26 2013 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I commented because I didn't want BC to think I'm ignoring his case completely - that the reason I'm not saying whether or not I agree with it is because I'm waiting on Yamato's response to it. I'm having a hard time believing that you can't understand this. But that's the reason why i don't understand it. What is there to fear if you have atm nothing to say to the case? Did you think BC is gonna call you out for not responding to his yamato case? If you got nothing to add or nothing to straight up disagree, why make a useless comment about the case in the first place? | ||
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On April 26 2013 08:23 GiygaS wrote: The bolded may have just become a whole lot more meaningful. I think it's kinda WIFOMy. If i was using that as evidence i could say why didn't VE bring up DrH/Stutters & Drazak/Artanis? Does it make him scum? | ||
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On April 26 2013 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Because neither of those players you just mentioned just flipped scum and tube did? I don't think the way Palmar was talking about modkillings is alignment indicative. If i was scum and there are three inactives and one or more of them are scum, i would totally bring up the guy who is my scumbuddy when talking about inactives. In case he gets modkilled i look good. But i don't think this can be used to tell anything about your alignment either. | ||
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And Clarity. | ||
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On April 26 2013 08:47 ObviousOne wrote: I don't know if you did but it's how you made me feel with your style. He's saying the same kinds of things I did in RTP so I empathize in that regard. I'm used to off-thread comm games, that's why i tend to interact with players who are online when i am and who i think are mafia. I understand this might make me look annoying, as i want to ask one question at time. This however does not mean i'm tunneling someone (i guess you can say at that time i am), i have a clear picture of the game as whole and i have thoughts on all the players (at least i try to). | ||
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leaning town. I don't really have anything to ask atm, you seem to be mostly on the same page i am in this game. geript: What are your points 2 and 3 about? GiygaS was throwing shit at Palmar, not VE. And what does that ShiaoPi quote have to do with anything? | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:25 getmoript wrote: Point 1. He's just following whatever the current trend is as it goes on. Point 2. Calls out VE for the Tube quote after the red flip. He's more than willing to help push the VE lynch without actually adding a vote. Point 3. Unwilling to call out his 'actual' scumread Shiao for doing the EXACT SAME THING!!!! He's treating 2 different players who did something very similar exceptionally differently. He's called Shiao scum multiple times but feels the need to call out VE INSTEAD OF HIS SCUM READ for doing the exact same things. @Rayn. As town do you keep up on your scum read filters or do you ignore them entirely? Do you not find this scummy? No, he said Tube flip makes Palmar scummy, not VE. On April 26 2013 08:29 GiygaS wrote: I think Palmar looks scummy for it. Before I honestly just considered it reaching, but now that tube has come up as scum, it is something that is notable in whether Palmar is scum or not. I'll be reevaluating my opinion on him after reading his filter again. That's why the third point is irrelevant. You posted one minute after it, how can you miss it? There are other things that i find scummy in GiygaS. His vote/reasons on Ace and his behaviour in D1, but i'm not sure if he is just a dumb townie or scum. | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:35 getmoript wrote: Ok, so replace shitting on VE with shitting on Palmar. Does it make a real difference? Still shitting on someone for Tube and not on his scum read. The fact that Palmar did not do what ShiaoPi did. | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:39 getmoript wrote: I still think the quote is Giygas implicating VE not palmar but whatever. I can't see how you can possibly think so as he clearly says "It makes Palmar scummy". | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:38 GiygaS wrote: Because the ShiaoPi quote wants to lynch tube, and pointed out he was inactive. Palmar explicitly ignored tube while he was pointing out other inactives and modkills. After reading a bit more of the thread, I can defs see Ace being a third party as well as a mafia, that completely slipped my mind. Can you explain why you think Ace is scum or 3p? | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: i am very willing to sheep this vote. What are your reasons for voting GiygaS? | ||
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On April 26 2013 09:55 GiygaS wrote: EBWOP (Add to the bolded text in my quote): Or could be 3rd party, and started playing pro-town instead of anti-town. I'm pretty sure you are just a townie who is on the wrong track. I can understand your thought process quite well, but if you think Ace is now playing in a town mindset, that is not a reason why he would be mafia. It's kinda stupid to assume so. What if Ace was just uninvested on D1? You should probably look into people you think are scummy now, or throughout the game. Of course if you think Ace has done some stuff on D1 that really points to him being scum then ignore my words, but if that's the case, please point those actions out. | ||
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On April 26 2013 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: WHY CAN YOU ASK THIS QUESTION OF OTHERS BUT NOT ASK THIS QUESTION ABOUT ME?!?!?!? WHAT IN THE HOLY FUCK ARE YOU DOING RAYN?! Because you said you had motives behind your actions and i don't see them. I see more town-motives behind Ace's questions and actions but i don't like him either, and that's why he is null for me atm. | ||
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##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Clarity_nl It's time to answer Sharrant's case. | ||
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On April 26 2013 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: /facepalm I haven't even DONE anything more than when you were arguing that I hadn't done shit rayn. Do you see how that statement infuriates me? Yes you have, you have asked questions that make sense to me, D1-N1 you didn't do so. Could you get behind Clarity lynch over ShiaoPi or Palmar? | ||
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Well what do you think about BM calling Tube town for "wanting to get rid of inactives like Drazak" then? | ||
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On April 26 2013 10:26 VisceraEyes wrote: grush can you link me to a scum game of yours please? I really hate this. But there are none on TL. I've checked. | ||
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grush go ahead and answer VE. | ||
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1) Palmar wrong about you 2) you wrong about him 3) you attack each other when both town? | ||
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On April 26 2013 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Aren't these three questions asking the same thing? How can he be wrong about me if he's scum and vice versa? Anyway....this is so hard to answer because we've played a bunch of games together. However I can say with confidence that we're hardly ever wrong about each other when we're both town. We attack each other, but generally arrive at the right conclusion pretty quickly when we're both town. When we're opposing alignments, we're wrong more often but not much. Side effect of playing a lot of games with someone is being able to read them pretty well, and I've played a lot of games with Palmar (much to my chagrin early on in my career -.-) On the whole he's better at reading me when we're opposing alignments then I am at reading him. Yeah that is what i was after, in 1 and 2 i meant as the first person being town and the other one scum. I like Clarity as the best lynch atm. I don't like ShiaoPi and Clarity both disappearing when under hard suspicion. I don't like yamato's answer to BC's case. Off to bed, cya guys tomorrow. | ||
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Ace: I think you are being kinda wishy-washy regarding me. I don't like you saying i'm "temporarily cleared because of activity". If you think i'm town say so, if you think i'm scum, say so, if think i'm null, say so, but don't "clear" me for now because of activity. as you have said, activity has nothing to do with someone being scum/town. I don't like ShiaoPi lynch as much as Clarity as why i have said earlier (ignore the VE voting for him part), mainly because of my analysis of the NK's at the start of D2. I want to hear more from yamato/BC regarding BC's case, i think yamato's answer was weak, he just said "no U scum, i'll tell more later". I could write something about WoS, but not tonight. I think he has a fair chance of flipping mafia, but Clarity is more likely imo. I didn't like how Mr.CheeseCake accepted geript's case on GiygaS, as the case was full of nothing. I want him to tell why he did so. | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:06 GiygaS wrote: Stop lying. GiygaS telling to consolidate onto main targets or to make a good case on someone else is another thing than to tell "you need to hammer one of those guys". | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:14 Ace wrote: I think you're Town but I always think in terms of leaning/Protown and Confirmed Town. So when I say temporarily cleared it doesn't mean you are Scum - just me really saying you aren't confirmed. I'll try to be more clear from now on. I'm liking ShiaoPi more than Clarity because of the Oats wagon. But Vivax accused them both so it's not a big deal for either wagon especially when both are just chilling right now. Yamato still missing is of course a big deal. Why is this as we can't know if yamato is mafia or not? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:18 ObviousOne wrote: BM Palmar ShiaoPi GiygaS 90% of the game of Mafia is half skill. The other half is reading. BOOM! I kinda think all of those guys are town. :¤ | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:20 Ace wrote: I don't understand. how does yamato flipping correlate with Shiaopi over Clarity because of the Oats wagon? Oh yeah. You mean you assume there is at least one scum in Oats wagon right? That's fair. | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:26 Ace wrote: yes. Maybe you missed the post I made earlier but basically it was Oats (Town) was accused by Vivax (Town) and gets lynched by 13 players. I doubt all 13 are Town because that would be incredible luck and insight on Scum's behalf to all miss that vote. Hence we should look at who is on the wagon. Combine it with Vivax, the only N1 death meaning someone really wanted him dead because of his accusations, and he was right about something. Combine those seperate threads of thought/looking for scum and thats how I got to the points I'm at. Yeah i understand it now. However, whatever yamato is, i doubt all scum were on Oats wagon. That's why i think this tells little about Clarity/ShiaoPi and their chances of being mafia (i mean, their chances of being scum just by analyzing D1 wagons as numbers). One thing that bothers me is people saying ShiaoPi is mafia because he hammered Oats (especially if yamato is town). Oats was L-1 and we were waiting players to consolidate, don't you think scum would be more careful with hammer in that situation? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:41 Ace wrote: I dont think all were on it either, just some. Hammering someone isn't scummy, especially if we've discussed it for that many hours. Even so I don't remember ever saying ShiaoPi is Scum because he hammered Oats. As an aside, hammering is usually scummy when you don't give someone a chance to do anything, Oats was around long before the hammer dropped. I know you are not saying so. I was just pointing out one reason why i'm uncomfortable in voting for ShiaoPi, as some people who are voting for him / find him suspicious use his hammering as a reasoning. | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:43 ObviousOne wrote: Hammer or not, his vote reasoning was basically Oats was being a silly bitch. This. | ||
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On April 26 2013 13:07 ObviousOne wrote: The wagons were solid cases, even if they were wrong, objectively it was two scummy-looking players. The only point against Ace in any way regarding how things went down D1 is if he somehow knew both wagons were town and you have to start from the assumption that he is mafia (admittedly easier to do earlier in the game than now) to essentially guarantee a town lynch. He didn't say not to bring up fresh cases, he basically said don't bring up terrible fresh cases or they won't be considered. I mentioned he championed the lynches as the only options but realistically after 2 real days it was time to push forward for a D1 and someone had to do it or we might have been putzing for another day. Conversely I think we're being really productive still past the 2-RL day mark at this point but I do feel we should start listing today's candidates soon and Ace's idea of lynching from the scummiest players on the Oats wagon is probably a good place to start. That's kind of where I was going with my red names a short while ago. Another place we probably need to look is the Yamato wagon at some point (especially those who joined very easily or with very clearly bullshit reasons [BTW my reason was I preferred to lynch Yamato over Oats at the time, save you a few seconds of checking, your call whether or not it was bullshit] plus the outlier and non-voters as the other category for D1 lynch. Treat them all as the secondary category so we don't get pigeon-holed into being too granular with the search. I don't know where this leads you. Looking into 20 players? Only people (besides inactives) why didn't vote for yamato or Oats are Clarity and yamato. How does this reduce your suspect pool, as i think both of those guys are pretty damn suspicious. | ||
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On April 26 2013 06:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am also waiting for yamato's response to BC. In case i'm wrong about VE he would be my, if not second, at least third pick for todays lynch. N1 he called Clarity scum due to his timing of the case on Sharrant without a doubt, now it's suddenly a possibility that he was just a townie who wanted to contribute something of his own. I questioned yamato about this on N1 sepecifically asking if it's possible that Clarity just thought he should say something about his scumreads when he came back. Everyone can see him changing his mind on D2 based on nothing if you read his filter. | ||
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On April 26 2013 13:54 Sharrant wrote: I'm not sure I follow, that just sounds like another point as to why Palmar isn't mafia. If you believe a mafia Palmar would shoot BC over anyone (with Ace a close second) but the only shot was Vivax, then does that not say you believe Palmar is not mafia? I think we may have our wires crossed again, help me out here. As BC claimed roleblocked there is a possibility that scum shot him right? If Palmar is mafia, scum probably shot BC if he is town. | ||
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On April 26 2013 13:59 Sharrant wrote: Ah, I get you know. That is a possibility, but I still find it quite unlikely, I will however keep it in mind. At any rate, I don't think you can disagree that if Palmar is mafia trying to pull the wool over town's eyes with this one, it is doomed to fail because he's not a player that will benefit from the plan as he either dies quickly or will get lynched. No i do not think Palmar is mafia. But if he is, it's even likely that a jailer (town or mafia) jailed him as he looks town for many people. But, after all, there are people who think Palmar is mafia, there are people who think BC is town, so it's unreliable to assume that it was Palmar who was 100% shot (i know i fell into this category early on, and i still think it's likely, but still). | ||
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But if he is... But if he is town... | ||
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On April 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote: Please replace some of those pronouns with nouns if you want an answer for this before I sleep, that's a lot of he/his and I'm completely lost and I want to understand it. Let's see if my interpretation is right so you might not even need to write it yourself: Yamato scummy for calling clarity scummy for clarity's post on sharrant then yamato does a 180 into a town read on clarity for the same reason but nothing happened to change yamato's mind in the thread. As if Yamato forgot he gave clarity a scum read and then changed his mind. My only answer is probably the one you're looking to get out of Yamato himself, as there is only really one possible not-scummy answer. I think the question is, will you believe it even if he gives you the right answer? I don't really need an answer from you, just pointing out that is something to not ignore. I want yamato to answer that, i can provide the exact quotes if he does not understand what i mean. I would not call that a 180, only a 90 or smth, but it doesn't sit well with me anyways. | ||
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After that I think GiygaS is probably the best vigi shot, someone brought up some decent points about him earlier, and I remember reading through the thread on my phone gave me the impression that he just sort of ended up wherever there was more than 3 people that started sharing an opinion. I disagree with the bolded part. Could you look at who did bring up points and why were they good? I'm a bit torn about GiygaS, one half of me says he is scum and the other one says he's just a misguided/bad townie. | ||
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On April 26 2013 14:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I disagree with the bolded part. Could you look at who did bring up points and why were they good? I'm a bit torn about GiygaS, one half of me says he is scum and the other one says he's just a misguided/bad townie. I disagree with the bolded part. I was thinking about geript's case. I do not necessarily disagree. :D | ||
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But, the points you brought up against GiygaS are valid. And i also want to hear more from Artanis, though i'm leaning town on him. | ||
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Anyways i'm not interested in lynching ShiaoPi today. | ||
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What do you think of Sylencia / WoS? | ||
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##Unvote: Clarity_nl ##Vote: ShiaoPi | ||
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On April 27 2013 04:46 Hopeless1der wrote: /willing to hammer shiaopi Srsly, can someone check on what I've asked about Sharrant? Why is rayn a townread to Sharrant? I don't think anyone but Sharrant can answer that. My opinion is the most biased obviously, as i know i am town. | ||
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On April 27 2013 05:02 Hopeless1der wrote: and yet his previous mention of you was that "I (Shar) am going to get you (rayn) lynched because you are scum". That doesn't bother you that he just dropped it like it was nothing? Where the hell is everyone? It doesn't as i had posted a lot after that, before Sharrant posted the next time. | ||
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On April 27 2013 05:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I find that odd, but frankly he's posting enough opinions that I'm not interested in lynching him over my own candidates Hopeless. I intend to look deeper into his posting after the flip. Right now it's of note that he's directly opposing both a Clarity lynch and a ShiaoPi lynch based on weak reasoning. What? Sharrant is pushing Clarity. | ||
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1) ShiaoPi says VE is scum for this: "weird assumptoion of his that palamar is scum" 2) Palmar assumes same about VE, when VE has done much much more on D2 that Palmar 3) However, strangely Palmar is very high townread and VE is scum. It makes zero sense. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he lied when he said he read the thread. He didn't, or he'd know that Kush didn't vote for me, ever...in either thread. In fact, kush is "1 trillion percent sure" that I'm town. Also this is a fact. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh this is like exactly the problem I have with the approach as well. :/ At least as we can't know yamato's alignment from D1, and we can't know if Clarity / ShiaoPi are both mafia. That's a hella lot of WIFOM there in the wagons. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:31 Ace wrote: because he is clueless and not reading the thread. He is just sheeping Palmar. I dont think that is a strong enough argument to make him scum. I have no idea how we can lynch anyone if we allow stuff like this to happen.. Seriously, do you need someone to say "hi, i'm scum" in thread to lynch them? | ||
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Other points you bring up might have merit, i need to look closer into them and decide what to do. | ||
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In addition to this, i could see ShiaoPi being lazy/uninformed/bad/whatever town, i don't see that in Clarity. He just doesn't give shit about what's going on. ##Unvote: ShiaoPi ##Vote: Clarity_nl | ||
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So this could be a mistake as at least two players other than Shiao have made the same mistake. Only thing that bothers me is that if Shiao did read the thread carefully he would know Kush had called VE obv-town and would notice something is wrong here. | ||
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On April 27 2013 09:11 getmoript wrote: Honestly Ace I don't care enough to fight you over Shiao today. I've been working for 12 hours and likely have another 12 to go before I get to sleep. I just want a flip. If you have said everything you have to say already, just continue observing. There is no reason to prematurely just flip someone because people are bored. | ||
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Ima write up soon the best vigi shots for tonight. Great lynch! | ||
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First of all, there is absolutely no way scum bussed Clarity before the very end of the day. He was a scum vigilante, and there is no way he was bussed over any scum role. If we lynched mafia D2, they would go down to 1 factional KP. If we lynched a mafia vigilante, they would lose not one but two KP during one day. No fucking way they bussed. What does this mean: There HAS to be a townie counter-wagon pushed by mafia. There absolutely has to. What were the counter-wagons for D2? VisceraEyes and ShiaoPi. I do not think ShiaoPi is mafia based on this: If ShiaoPi was mafia, that would mean mafia would have to push VE lynch very hard to secure their teammates. Who has pushed VE hard? Palmar? No, not really. There has been noone that has pushed VE hard. The only person who has tried to "convince" anyone of VE being mafia is Palmar. If Palmar was mafia, he would have put a lot more effort in lynching VE. That makes Palmar not mafia. VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes was the only one pushing ShiaoPi lynch hard. Based on what Vivax said. That's cool and everything, but until people started to consolidate to Clarity over ShiaoPi, VE showed no interest in lynching Clarity. When Ace brought up good points added to Sharrant's Clarity case, VE said "he doesn't care which of them is lynched and is willing to consolidate if needed". He never consolidates, just let's go. Also remember, noone else was interested in finding out which one of them is a better lynch other than me, Ace and VisceraEyes. VisceraEyes is mafia. Sylencia: Sylencia never gives any reasoning why he thinks people he votes for are scum. Here are his posts where he votes for people: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 20:45 Sylencia wrote: Ok, I'm back, and going back to the start to see what I can gather: Notes: - I don't care about meta reads very much. It's easy to manipulate, especially when people outright say 'based on X's meta, he is acting like his town self'. Unless it's obvious, I generally disregard meta arguments. Comments / Observations: - Oats v Palmar early on. The way I read it, Oats seemingly made a joke statement about Palmar, yet the response was ever so serious. Palmar: Is your vote just parked on Oats while you look for actual suspicious people or do you seriously believe that Oats was calling you out there? Since it's instant majority lynch, a single vote doesn't really matter until we get to 10+ votes, but I'm just interested if your read on Oats has changed since the initial accusation. - I was actually suspicious of gemoript due to the super weak town reads / don't kill these guys yet post until the hydra cut occurred, and valid points have been raised about that action, but I don't really want to talk about that any further. Based on one statement I make which isn't indicative of anything whatsoever makes you think I'm scummy? It's fine if you're accusing me if you have a case but casual accusations with no followups don't sit well with me since it ends up being bait for people to jump on. So other than the lack of activity which I have shown thus far, are there any other points you'd like to make? Trying. Not easy though, 20 pages of catchup doesn't make it easy to digest the content. From the pages regarding TRN and Rayn, both have been hard at work defending each other, though I don't really understand the point being raised about why Rayn isn't scum. Was he scum when he tunneled or was he town? Rayn has shown tendencies in other games to shotgun vote and accuse others, and it's seen here and from your games he can tunnel too. His behaviour is erratic and so unless there's points regarding the content being townie, I don't think anything can be said about the way he plays. You dislike Sharrant, so does that mean you suspect him or are you just putting it out there? Does Rayn's activity put him in the town books for you, because while it can be used as a basis for a case when none others appear, it's pretty alignment indicitive. If it's not part of your reasoning behind it, why is rayn already town in your eyes? (Okay, seems like this is asked later on, but I'm leaving it here as per OO's request) I'm somewhat doing the same, so I'm wondering how you can see someone as town without looking at the whole picture. I haven't really got any town reads due to this, but the fact you're able to either means you're doing something wrong, or you know something we don't. - Following from this there's a clear TRN-Sharrant-Rayn argument breaking out, with Sharrant backtracking on past accusations and rayn aggressively defending while accusing Sharrant as well. Rayn: Pushing for all millers to die (and voting on it) on day 1 honestly doesn't sound like a great plan. It wastes days where there's actually stuff to analyse, it creates a lazy town atmosphere which only helps scum, and with that comes a lot less conversation. You said you thought that BM was scum but what makes him so much more scummy at the time than someone else with low number of posts and providing just words and not content (eg. me)? In any case: This looks so dumb honestly. Ok, I'm done for now, ##vote rayn at the moment because of the weirdest irregularities in posts. If someone can tell me what of the things Sylencia says about me makes me mafia, i'm all ears. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 23:58 Sylencia wrote: Oats is the vote for me. Case from Vivax + aftermath between yamato vs Oats has convinced me more to taking down Oats. The thing that was holding me back most was that my primary scum suspect (rayn) was on Oats fairly early on. However: Given that Oats never actually provided anything for us in terms of reads afterwards and posted crap about being green and telling people to push others. If he has nothing to say either: a) He's playing as the bad townie b) He's withholding that info from us to stop us from gaining more than we need from the lynch. Either case is bad for town, so that's why I'm willing to go down on Oats. ##Unvote ##Vote Oats Being bad =/= scum. Again, no reasoning why Oats is mafia. + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote: Clarity hasn't been here for 72 hours now .. in which case I'd much rather go for the kill on Shiao today. I won't be around for much today (though I guess you could argue I haven't been around too much), since I'm going to be at a LAN tournament, but I'll try sneak a peek at the topic whenever I can. ##Vote ShiaoPi Earlier on Sylencia says he is uneasy with voting for ShiaoPi because his scumread VE started the wagon. However he did not vote for VE earlier and never questioned him about anything. Is that how you treat your scumread? Also no mention why ShiaoPi is mafia. - Sylencia never tells why he thinks people he votes for are mafia. His votes on me/Oats were "because they are bad", and his vote on ShiaoPi is fishy. - Sylencia never questions his scumreads. He does nothing to figure out if i am scum on D1, he does nothing to figure out if Oats is scum on D1. Just votes based on "bad play". - Come D2, Sylencia doesn't seem to think i am scum any more. I question him about this, and he answers "you are still suspicious". But what does his next post say? That grush, ShiaoPi and VE are his suspects. How does that make sense? - Sylencia says this about ShiaoPi: In either case, I haven't been looking at filters like I had hoped, I've now read ShiaoPi's filter and from the points: - Considers TRN, myself and rayn to be potential scum - Hammers Oatsmaster I have to wonder why he decided to do so considering 2/3 of this suspected scum were on that wagon. In addition, the reasoning of: given that there's no deadline so a change in votes was still entirely possible makes this so wrong. As for my current vote, I'm really wanting to go with Shiao but given VE is the one who has started the wagon I don't even know if that's the right move given I still don't see him being townie in my eyes. I'm going to hold onto the vote for now, but as of right now my read on who is scum are: VE, Shiao, grush (you guys are dumb with starsenses). - This is plain out lie. ShiaoPi has never called me or TRN mafia. If you don't believe me, look at his filter. Sylencia claims he has read ShiaoPi's filter and still lies about this. - Other than that Sylencia's filter is full of useless lists and self-defence. There is nothing that comes even close to scumhunting. Sylencia is mafia WaveOfShadow: Votes Oats for: Anyway to sum it up, I'm more sure of an Oats lynch than yamato; a lot of conflicted things going on with him that I just can't be sure of. No reasoning why Oats is scum. On April 24 2013 10:48 WaveofShadow wrote: I have something small I'd like to write up for ShiaoPi but I was waiting for Daypost. I think BC is more likely to be scum than Clarity. Because I feel like specifically asking Sharrant those questions. I can ask whoever I want, whatever I want. No reasoning for any of this. I don't also understand why he wants to question his supertown read Sharrant rather than scumreads? He gives no explanation to it. Promises to write something about ShiaoPi, but never delivers. I don't see much in his filter that counts as scumhunting, hell it's fucking hard to even tell who this guy thinks is scum. There are couple of things that speak in favor of WoS however. - He called Clarity's case bad, and listed Clarity/Shiaopi/VE as suspects for D2.I don't know if this counts as town-tell, as later on he defends Clarity based on "bad townie"-card and doesn't really want to vote for VE because he wants to hear more from him. Not sure of this, but good shot either way Hopeless: I don't understand why he voted for Oats. The only thing he has done on D2 was trying to discredit Sharrant by asking why he changed his read on me. Does not mention VE/ShiaoPi/Clarity at all (besides a soft-defence on Clarity), here: Clarity's spiel about 'easy outs' doesnt look that stupid to me considering how Sharrant's read on rayn went into the abyss with no comment at all. He just dropped his read with no explanation that I can find. What gives? Then he says he is willing to hammer ShiaoPi with no reasoning given and no motivation to find out more about ShiaoPi/Clarity. Not sure of this, but good shot either way Why Palmar is third faction: I think Palmar is right about VE. He can't however push VE lynch hard, because if he did, and VE flipped scum, he would get shot. Why i think Palmar is not mafia is this. He said VE was his #1 lynch candidate in D2. He also said ShiaoPi is town, and Clarity is scum. If Palmar was mafia he would either not say ShiaoPi is town, or he would be pushing VE hard over Clarity. He did neither. If he was town however, he would have done at least something other than just call VE scum whole D2 and troll throughout the game. I don't see him being town either. | ||
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On April 28 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like your post Rayn, but I still find it hard to believe that VE is scum. The way he's playing contrasts the scum game I played with him in PYP so much in a way I don't think he would if he landed in a scum team with two players that basically went AFK and a bunch of suspicion on him. He seems willing to pick up the glove and contribute. I will say that your counter wagon thing especially given that the scum that flipped was a vigi too holds a lot of water, but if I can compare it to the PYP game I played again; There were three lynch candidates on D1, me, VE, and shelvocke. All three of us were scum. If scum has no town presence, then these situations can happen. I don't know why you say the first bolded part. Can you explain better, i don't see it? He wanted to lynch RO and deconduo on D1, and made a big case on RO. Here he made a big case on ShiaoPi based on what Vivax said not even considering Clarity until the thread sentiment was about to change. What makes his play so different? Do you think ShiaoPi is scum aswell? Why were there no real counter wagons pushed then? | ||
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In PYP he was the scum thread presence on D1. What's so different here and why can't he be scum based on what i said? D1 VE didn't do much, didn't push any lynch. D2 he would need to if his team is inactive/not contributing. And again, if ShiaoPi is scum and VE town, why didn't scum push VE or any other lynch? I see zero reason not to do so. | ||
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I see zero reason to do so. | ||
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On April 28 2013 08:48 Bill Murray wrote: rayn you're being illogical over "townie counter wagons" and such i've been in a game as scum top 3 wagons were all scum it happens I know it happens, but it's unlike. If VE is town then i would without a doubt lynch yamato. You are also being illogical: rayn looks town or hardcore bussing in agreeing with me ...gotta put him maybe more than "leaning town".. ... Lynch kush because of him and rayn having complete opposite solid stances on my "claim"... that at least has the semblance of a 50:50, which town needs. By no means would that be a "chainlynch", because I would bet kush or rayn are scum over that encounter... I don't see how having different opinion on something like that is a scumtell and why one of us has to be scum. Kush has been making very little sense but my opinion of him is that he usually does not make much sense. And i can see how he reaches his conclusions in D1 (in a weird way - agreed on that). | ||
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On April 28 2013 09:00 Bill Murray wrote: .. flip flopping isn't being illogical town flip flop more than scum I don't see how me and Kush having a different opinion on something and having a town read on each other makes one of us scum. I just don't see it. I think you are town and i do give you a lot of credit for making Clarity say what he did on N1, which ended up in lynching him. Sharrant however was the guy who made the case on Clarity D2 and told that we should ABSOLUTELY LYNCH CLARITY OVER ANYONE ELSE ON D2. He did push that lynch the whole day, i don't see how he deserves less credit from the lynch. Could you be more clear with your thoughts because i do not understand why you think the way you think. | ||
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On April 28 2013 09:02 Bill Murray wrote: OK last post for me... and I'm going to take a break... I don't want to spam up the thread... Rayn, how come you said he's "shot number one" but you don't have him listed as scum? (wos) Because i wrote my post without reading any posts after the flip as i was watching Dreamhack. After my post i started reading. The moment i saw WoS claimed miller when people said he was a good vigi-shot (before that) i put up a clarification post that WoS should be #1 vigi target. | ||
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My town meta has me always roleclaiming when I feel I am in actual danger of death, and I NEVER lie. You did not claim in Ego despite being L-1. I wouldn't call that "not in danger of dying". Just vig this guy. | ||
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On April 28 2013 10:18 Hopeless1der wrote: I won't check, but I'll hazard a guess at no I cannot because he didn't? That's not proof that he's lying now, and if you don't understand the falicy in believing that he's lying about his claim based on his "I always claim" I wonder if you are stuck in a tunnel. I wanted your opinion on "what do you think of him lying". If you think him lying about claiming stuff is not scummy and if you think he is telling the truth about being a miller that's another thing, but you completely dodged my question. What town motivation do you think WoS has in lying like this? Him claiming miller/blue is basically the only way he could possibly save him from being shot tonight. He even said he realized he looks very bad after Clarity lynch. There are/were a lot of players who wanted him dead before he claimed. If he claims blue vigis might shoot his scumbuddy and he would get lynched the next day if he's not believed, or shot tonihgt if his claim is not believed. If he was a miller i would expect he had told his stance on when millers should claim when the thread was talking about it. I think he used that discussion to take no stance on when millers should claim (or should they, at all), decided to softly "breadcrumb" miller if he were to be under suspicion later. That's what i think. | ||
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On April 28 2013 10:36 Hopeless1der wrote: It has been made abundantly clear that miller claims are worth precisely dick. I think his lie was just an exaggeration. I don't think its scummy that he posits that his town meta is to always claim, when you can pull from memory it seems an instance that it is a false statement. I think he is Severus Snape. If he was going to fake claim, why not go whole hog and claim doc or joat or something NOT miller? It has a bigger chance of failing or even outing his scumbuddy(ies). He needs to claim his N1 action. He needs to claim his N2 action on D3. This is valuable information for town to make conclusions about. If he is at any point role-copped, he is insta-fucked, the role-cop can fish out more information about his checks/targets (whatever he is). Mafia is already down as many members as town is. They need to all stay alive in a way or another, and i think as mafia WoS' best bet was to claim miller, as it sounds so stupid it might even be believed + it negates all cop/role-cop checks on him if being believed. If he is town there is no reason for him to claim miller. | ||
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Any comment on this: Holy shit, i just figured out something. Something that is very clever play from mafia if i am right. But whether or not i'm right or wrong we all need to agree that WoS needs to be shot tonight. Does anyone figure out what do i meaning? ? | ||
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If VE is town how do you explain mafia letting their vigilante die that easily? | ||
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On April 28 2013 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm very wary of ace in general and I'm not convinced of any bus shenannies. VE is cleared because I read him as giving a shit, not because of his interactions with yamato. So you think it's possible that Ace decided it's a good idea to let their vigi die and remove 2 KP from their team when he could probably have easily come up with reasons to lynch ShiaoPi over Clarity. No fucking way Ace is mafia. | ||
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On April 28 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote: Do you remember when Me VE and BM all bussed Artanis, our Mafia Godfather Assassin in Boardwalk? Sometimes killing a power role is what you have to do when you're backed into a corner. That's not what I think happened here since you're talking about Ace and I was thinking Palmar was the scummiest of the 5 so that may be where the thinking malfunction is coming from on my end. (Also it's taking like 10 min no joke to generate the quote page and it's driving me insane, is anyone else having connectivity issues with TL but not other things? might be settled down now but I'm going to post this in case it starts acting up again...) That was because all of the fucking D1 candidates were town in PYP!!! It does not answer the question, if VE is town why didn't mafia even try to push a mislynch on D2??? | ||
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[quote]all of the fucking D1 candidates were mafia in PYP[/b] | ||
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Palmar is gonna get copped/lynched if he is not right and he knows it. If he however is too right (pushing the correct lynches with good reasoning) he will get NK'd and he knows it. If he however trolls throughout the game but still is on the right side of things, he probably won't get lynched. That's why i think it's most likely third faction. He is not playing for mafia, but he is not playing for the town (too much) either. But pushing a lynch on your teams vigilante, even softly, at the point Palmar did it is really bad play as mafia, and Palmar is not bad. If he was mafia he would have either pushed VE harder, or not agreed with Clarity over ShiaoPi when he did. It's that simple. | ||
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That's because in Ego I already claimed right at the beginning of the game, remember the fight over whether what I said was a 'real' claim or not? I NEVER LIE. You claimed town when the game started. I don't see how this qualifies as "claiming when i am in danger of dying"? | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:26 Ace wrote: Wos-->alive.notshoot What does that mean? | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:31 WaveofShadow wrote: There's nothing to push, you dumbass. Almost everyone has already agreed I should be shot; you don't need to puff up your fucking chest and go "HAY GUISE SHOOT HIM HE SCUM LOOK AT ME" because there's no reason to. Did I not already say I'm fine being shot if it helps the town clear up any confusion like 3 fucking times? I'm just asking people to consider the idea that I'm not scum, which you absolutely refuse to do. Yes, i refuse to do so because if you are a miller there was no reason for you to claim, there are other ways to make people to change their mind. If you are mafia it's the cleverest thing you can do. And everyone is not sure if you need to be shot, for example Hopeless, OO, Palmar, Ace(?)... | ||
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Can you just say what do you mean? I don't understand. | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:56 ObviousOne wrote: THIS GAME IS HARD TO PLAY WHEN PROLEAGUE IS STREAMING ARGH SO MUCH DELAY THIS WILL TAKE INORDINATELY LONG TO PUT TOGETHER WoS said he tried to breadcrumb miller without claiming OP says role numbers are unknown TRN asked why there was no counter-claim Ace says look at WoS filter so we look (not quoting with timestamps page loads are taking FOR FUCKING EVER): - SENSITIVITY TO MILLER ROLE BM did not claim, but WoS was willing to take it as a claim because he is aware that there can be more than one. - FIRST LINE OF SECOND QUOTE Why is miller totes important? It's not. It shouldn't be IMO. So this stands out. Reads as soft claim. And how this makes WoS a miller and how it's not possible for him to be mafia soft-claiming miller in case he needs to do so later? | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What reason does town have to make to ever claim miller? Seriously, tell me. All it does is clusterfuck a thread and leaves open ground for mafia to claim as well and thus be cleared as town as he claimed miller. Assume all miller claims are bullshit and kill. If you get red checked you get killed. Its pretty simple. You lynch people who are likely mafia. Town has no reason to ever claim miller EVEN IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE ONE. As all it does is create chaos. IE only mafia have a benefit to claim it thus should be lynched. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:12 WaveofShadow wrote: I did read it. And he's mostly right. And I've already mentioned it's because I'd rather force a wasted vig shot than a wasted DT check and wasted lynch. Pretty decent reasons to me. Whether or not YOU think this was going to happen or not is irrelevant. It's what I thought was going to happen and so I acted. Simple. Again, i can't see where you assume you are gonna get DT checked when people wanted you shot. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:33 Ace wrote: to be extra thorough - while it is still possible WoS is scum that miller claim doesn't warrant a vigi shot. It does nothing to free up extra information, as if WoS flips Miller it is a wasted shot. For now you should give him the benefit of the doubt. Look at other people on the Oats +Shiapi wagon clash cases. yamato and VE are both there. So is Palmar, hopeless1nder, and a few others. WoS is there too but as said I think he gets a temporary pass. Limit that pool via what you know by reading objectively first, then read them from both scum and town p.o.v. Do it for all of them! WoS doesn't come close to being the top vigi target when you do this. CheeseCake, Palmar, Sharrant (him not convinced yet though): On April 28 2013 05:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Shoot waveofshadow 100% On April 28 2013 05:57 Sharrant wrote: Convince me on this one, I have some suspicions, let's figure out if they're the same. + I have said this on N1 and my read has never dropped: On April 25 2013 03:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: ... WaveofShadow - what me + TRN said earlier today GiygaS - Did weird stuff on D1, especially his answers to me were not pleasing Clarity_nl - What has been brought up today ShiaoPi - What Vivax said + TRN So that makes CC/Palmar/Me/TRN/somewhat Sharrant. I do not think any of those people are mafia. WoS claimed right after CC-Palmar-Sharrant posted. Overly defensive in the first place, now he says he wanted to avoid a DT check and mislynch on him. Bullshit i say, noone even mentions him being a good check. | ||
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There is no town motivation to insta-claim when people want you shot. A townie would think "crap, i have been so fucking wrong on D1 and D2. I have to relook everything and make my best to come up with the best reads possible. Then, if people do not believe me, i claim miller and have people shoot me." That's what a townie would do. However, if WoS is mafia, there are two possibilities. People take him at face value (look at what you are doing right here) and he does not get shot. He can't be copped any more. Win situation. If people do not agree on shooting him, but mafia has a reason to believe he will be shot, what then. THROW A FUCKING JAILER ON HIM! That's gonna be a fucking WIFOM-fest @ D3, might even lead to a vigilante claiming if they shot him. The only correct play is that all people agree on vigi shooting WoS, if he dies and flips town, he screwed up royally. But he is no longer a distraction. If he flips mafia, good. If he does not get shot, we lynch him on D3 as mafia protected him and he is mafia. | ||
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Now convince the other people you are town. Your first reads post was kinda bad. Over half of the post said what you were supposed to do before N2, it's fucking irrelevant that you use big paragraphs now to tell us why Clarity is mafia, because he flipped mafia already. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:47 yamato77 wrote: Close enough: Town read on me. Before I said I would respond. Reasonable, somewhat. This chain of quotes from you is suspicious as fuck. You want to be suspicious of me before I even fucking respond. Fuck you, you're mafia. If you call this a case i'm going to laugh at you. You are calling VE mafia because you didn't answer to BC and he put pressure on you and wanted you to answer. VE never even voted for you on D2. Way to go bro. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Ohai Geript. Here's an opportunity you were asking for earlier in the game. Do you think I'm scum based on occurrences earlier in the thread? Also anything updated on Shiao or Giygas? If you think ShiaoPi is scum i want to ask you the question i have asked from many other people. Why do you think scum did sacrifice their vigilante over Shiao, and why didn't they push a conter-case on a townie at any point of D2? | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:35 getmoript wrote: Nah, Rayn was right about me misreading Giygas post. I still want Giygas to die for being a blender. I still want Shiao dead because Vivax case was good and Vivax died and people have fucking forgotten about that shit. geript, you too. Why do you think scum did sacrifice their vigilante over Shiao, and why didn't they push a conter-case on a townie at any point of D2? | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:38 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not sure Shiao is scum. If he isn't he's terrible town. I'm just trying to find out what other people think of him now and whether or not Clarity's flip precludes Shiao of being scum. I'm not sure it does, but it does make me doubt my read. How exactly did scum sacrifice their vig over Shiao by the way? There are so many strong players in this game who are likely town I don't think scum had any real control over the lynch. Where are tube's/Clarity's influence over the lynch D1? Because Clarity was +1 KP. Scum know who is scum, and scum have probably done scummy stuff this game. Anyone who comes even close to pushing a lynch on D2 was VE, and he can't possibly push a lynch on himself. Even if scum are fairly inactive, it would be beneficial to make a rock-solid case on another scum to not waste a KP-role. Then Clarity comes in, votes for that person, and it's a win-win situation. Now the only counter-case was ShiaoPi. I still don't think there were only scum wagons on D2, and that's also why i think VE is scum. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:41 getmoript wrote: Why sacrifice a player who isn't going to get modkilled for a player who is? Because I don't think there are any active scum. There is no way you can know if clarity is gonna come back or not, unless he has said so in scum chat and you magically know this somehow. What is this, a scumslip? | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:54 WaveofShadow wrote: You don't find it likely that inactive scum couldn't start a third wagon when there are already 2 strong ones going without it looking really scummy? By the by, you've got a lot of scum-POV goin' on in that thar brain a'yers, Rayn. You scum? The thing is i do not think all scum are inactive. You are making an assumption that holds no water, at least yet. Of course it's possible that all the scum are inactive and couldn't do shit about what happened on D2, but why didn't they then try harder to get ShiaoPi lynched? I find the easiest explanation to be that VE is mafia. Maybe he shouldn't get vigged, but at least copped. What do you think about what i just said about geript? | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:58 getmoript wrote: Let me ask you this. When did the clarity lynch target pop back up again? April 25 2013 11:36. D2 started April 25 2013 04:12, so 7 hours after D2 start. At that time there are votes on VE, and VE's case on ShiaoPi. Why would you assume Clarity is gonna get modkilled, when his last posts are these: + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2013 07:54 Clarity_nl wrote: Last time I'm going to address this but if you guys wanna circlejerk over something completely stupid and wrong after that then go ahead. BM's post adresses both of my posts. My original entry and my case post an hour later. He says "lol he read entire thread in 1 hour yeah right?" and comments that the case is bad I reply this (gonna paraphrase to get it in your thick skulls) 1) This is a reply to the first part, about my entry post. a) "Yeah okay I might have started reading and then", this is me saying I was already in the process of catching up b) Yes I saw Palmar say it was close to hammer so figured I'd post that I'm here and catching up 2) This is a reply to the second part, about the case. Then people start spewing shit about how it "took me an hour from catching up to posting a case and that's impossible" even though I thought I fucking addressed that in the above post. So I clarify saying I had been reading two hours prior to my entry post. The only time I show lack of conviction in my case is after wave comments on it properly, not before. Everyone satisfied? As for the people I said I'd check: pretty confident BC is town, giygas is who the fuck knows and I don't understand why the fuck shiao hammered after showing no interest in oats whatsoever. I'm going to bed, tomorrow I'm going to find scum and ignore everyone because this is just pissing me off. On April 24 2013 08:03 Clarity_nl wrote: cause I had already read over oats and yamato Those three names were just cause looking at the playerlist I couldn't recall anything about them, reads etc. BC had a ton of stupid miller discussion crap but today he's as green as can be Bed now. That's one day after Clarity's last post when Sharrant made the case. Now, why do you assume Clarity, at this point, is going to get modkilled? If ShiaoPi is mafia, why would mafia not make a case on someone else, or if we assume VE is town, why not bandwagon on that lynch (which had pretty bad reasons at that time). What i'm saying is: You can't fucking know if Clarity is going to get modkilled or not, unless he has said so in scum QT and you know it! | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:01 getmoript wrote: Explain why you think that. Who are the active scum who are throwing shit around shitting up the thread? VE and maybe you. If not VE then yamato. | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:21 getmoript wrote: Why are you being so obtuse? The actual push for Clarity didn't happen until yesterday. That's 50 hours which is more than enough for a modkill. Hell the vote didn't drop until earlier today. There's no reason to assume that scum didn't help push the case along for towncred or didn't bus their own player to save Shiao. Maybe he told them to bus him. Maybe he was inactive and didn't come back and then said bus him. Maybe anything. I remember being at work watching that train get pushed over the Shiao train. Clarity flipping scum in no way should lead you to believe that Shiao is town. Okay, so your conclusion is that mafia did nothing to try to save a mafia guy for getting lynched on D2. Fine. Let's make a deal. We vig ShiaoPi tonight. If he flips town we lynch who i tell the town to lynch. If he somehow flips mafia the mafia is so terrible you can lynch me on D3 and still solve the game easily. Because i can't possibly believe the mafia team this game is so bad and if it is, i'd rather not waste my time with this game any more, because it's useless. | ||
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I think Rayn is playing too dumb to be scummy so mebbe not him, lol. If you are town you certainly have no credibility to call anyone's play dumb, because you did the dumbest thing any townie has done this game. | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:33 getmoript wrote: Deal... sort of. If he flips scum, then you have to vote with me on D3. If he flips town, I'll sheep you for a day. Sound fair? Deal. A better one as i am not mafia. And if i'm wrong you are right and town. | ||
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if I do die look at who is taking hard advantage of my 'gift' to them in my claim. You make a mega-scummy claim you ALREADY KNOW IS SCUMMY and tell people to look at people who are saying the claim is scummy. wtf. | ||
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First of all, if WoS thinks ShiaoPi is mafia, why does he think he has been "so wrong" at the start of D2, that he needed to claim..???? Also if he thought he is so wrong, why does he still want to look into ShiaoPi? He doesn't mention anyone as scum suspects that Shiao/GiygaS. He does no research, just asks people what they do think about people. | ||
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at the start of N2 | ||
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People who voted for Shiao but helped make the Clarity lynch happen, these people get +1 townie points, don't spend them all in one place: Kush, Geript, Ace, CC, BC What does this mean? Why are there no other people who voted for Clarity in this list ? | ||
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Srarrant is the other person who needs to be protected. The guy is obviously town. | ||
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On April 29 2013 04:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: There has to be at least one decently active scum... On April 29 2013 04:27 Palmar wrote: yeah VE Yes, this is the easiest explanation considering how D2 went. | ||
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On April 29 2013 04:29 Palmar wrote: also I liked not dying since we're talking protection. You get none because you didn't actually care about lynching VE yesterday. | ||
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On April 29 2013 04:40 Sharrant wrote: Do we have twenty minutes, or an hour and twenty minutes? 1h 20min I'd rather vote protection for Ace & Sharrant. If i die maybe people will at least take a look at my post @ page 119, and discuss it. The only one who has done so was Artanis. It's strange that he likes the post but his suspect list is very different from mine. I dunno what that means. | ||
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On April 29 2013 05:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Won't be able to post in earnest before daypost. Shoot me if you must, but imo I'd have a look at the people who WANT me dead and are calling me scum vs the ones who say that I must die simply because of the claim. GL town, you're in good hands. This def wasn't a great game for me; playing too pussy = bad. If I somehow survive I'm going balls out  I don't think there is anyone who thinks you are much town at the moment, so i'd rather look for people who are making scummy stuff instead of focusing on those who accuse you. Because, let's be hnest, this kind of stuff is what makes you look worse. You just OMGUS-read the people accusing you. | ||
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On May 18 2013 09:11 Palmar wrote: yep, giggles played okay. Biggest compliment should go to WoS btw, sure his reads were off, but he saved town a mislynch with his super-townie play. Rayn, Vivax and Cheesecake also played very well. Artanis was good after he came in too. Sharrant played way better than me. I completely missed Shiopi as scum after Clarity flip. marvs stunt after "death" was bullshit and he deserves a 100 game ban for that. that's ruind the game for not his team but for other people. | ||
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