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Sharrant
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Sharrant
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Since no one has mentioned it, I figure I may as well. At the very least everyone should, when voting for someone, note if their vote puts the person at L-1. Ideally I'd like people to note the position that each vote puts a player in, but it's not nearly as relevant when they're at L/2 votes or less. I'm not sure how I feel about policy lynching people that claim miller. I'd rather spend today's lynch on scum, and I need to see more from BM to know if he is. At this point I would say that miller's should claim if they feel that they're in danger of wasting a detective action (and not before that point), but that all miller claims should be treated as a mark against the player, rather than a scum claim. Enough about policy. Right now I would like to lynch TheRavensName. (I think someone mentioned that they have a town read on him, if you have something relevant that would explain things, please tell me.) On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote: I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns..... And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something. Things I don't like about this chain of quotes: "I thought it just genuinely showed dissapointment" that reads scummy to me. It sounds like he tried, and failed to have his post sound like someone who is dissapointed in the atmosphere of the town, and is trying to reaffirm that in other people's minds. He attacks the discussion so far, then sort of waffles on it, but then admits he's trying to attack the discussion. He picks the most meaningless parts of the discussion to bring up, or downplays their importance: Bill Murray talking in caps, reducing Palmar's interaction to an OMGUS, stating the conversation was unproductive, bringing up Yamato's "weapons but not guns", and then saying that small interactions are not particularly important. I don't see critical thought in the way he looks at other players, I think everyone should have come away from the first few pages with a few town reads, but he just looks at it as if it's spam for the sake of spam. @TheRavensName Who would you like to lynch right now? Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere? Do you think Oats is more likely scum, or more likely town? On April 22 2013 03:01 getmoript wrote: It's me and Marv, but really more like reverse shadowing or something similar. Honestly VE, I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. Marv, I'd be gay for you if you post more than once or twice per cycle. | ||
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##Vote: TheRavensName L-12 | ||
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On April 22 2013 05:17 ObviousOne wrote: Sylencia this post makes you sound nervous. The structure of the sentence, as normally seen in literature, makes it look like you are hiding something. You seem to have let this drop off rather casually, as did Yamato. IMO the early prod of you on Yamato's part worked because you have demonstrated here that you are possibly hiding something. Your second post says to disregard your first, so all I have to go on from you is that you are nervous. So are you hiding the fact that you are scum? Or are you hiding that you haven't a clue what is going on? Please explain thoroughly your opinion on at least two players so I can learn about you. Your filter is too scummy to ignore. Noticed this too, I think Sylencia would be a good lynch today as well. ObviousOne, what do you think about TheRavensName? | ||
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On April 22 2013 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: OO: Sharrant. Will be explaining in a bit, making food right now. I'm excited for this. @Ace @Palmar What do you think of TheRavensName? What do you think of Sylencia? @WaveofShadow You said before you were having trouble coming up with reads, do you have someone you would like to lynch today yet? | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy. About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. I did reach a conclusion about policy lynching BM: " I'd rather spend today's lynch on scum, and I need to see more from BM to know if he is." And about millers in general: "At this point I would say that miller's should claim if they feel that they're in danger of wasting a detective action (and not before that point), but that all miller claims should be treated as a mark against the player, rather than a scum claim." Those are right there at the very top of my first post. I'm interested as to how you either missed that, or as to why you decided to completely misrepresent me. The last part of your case is even weaker, I don't think it even needs to be touched upon. We obviously disagree about TheRavensName's posting so far. But you said something very strange. On April 22 2013 06:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote: /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes? Now see, in that quote you actually say "I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia". But wasn't part of your case on me that " It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that." So you say he is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes? I don't see how you can view him as townie while acknowledging that he is not scum hunting and still try and make the case on me that you did. Your reads do not match up. There is something wrong here. | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:45 Ace wrote: @Sharrant: RN looks like a noobie to me. I see. I am assuming this to be you saying he looks like a noobie town then, yes? Or are you saying he seems new, and null? Is there someone you would be comfortable with lynching right this second (aside from Bill Murray)? Is there someone you would recommend looking into? | ||
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On April 22 2013 07:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant: I am not trying to "policy lynch" BM. I think BM is scum. Bringing up the miller policy into this discussion adds nothing, because it's irrelevant regarding my reasons for wanting to lynch BM. So you really think it's TRN's job to find all his games to you? Do you want him to analyze them for you aswell? There are a lot of players who have not done scumhunting. TRN posted a comment on the game start -> people started question him -> he went defensive. I don't see how that is scummy for a new player whose first non-newbie game this is. My scumread on you is not strong at all, at least you did point him into doing something productive, asked him about who he does want to lynch and about Oats. So we'll see whta he answers. This needs pointing out. One: I did not accuse you of trying to policy lynch Bill Murray. What you quoted at the top there, that is about you saying I did not come to a conclusion about policy lynching miller claims. It's interesting that you feel the need to be defensive about that. Two: You are hilariously hung up on me asking for his games. If he's a townie, then he should be all for establishing his townieness. I am not going to search through other forums to try and find where he may have possibly played, especially given he could have played under any name he wanted. You think that asking that automatically means that I have not looked at his games on TL. I'm still interested on why you think this is so scummy? It's actually gotten to the point I find this hilarious. Three: On April 22 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched. ##Vote: Bill Murray On April 22 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched. ##Vote: Bill Murray On April 22 2013 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes there is, if you don't know if they even exist/how many of them there are. Everyone who claims miller should be lynched. You're definitely right, you have a big case on BM, and it has nothing to do with policy. I had no opinion of you trying to lynch Bill Murray, I have no idea yet if he's a good lynch or not. But how do you explain that? The thing you have posted about most in this game, is policy lynching BM and anyone else who does what he did. ##unvote:TheRavensName ##Vote:Raynepelikoneet | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:04 getmoript wrote: So the fact that I've been avoiding you is scummy? Explain or die. Geript, WaveofShadow, both of you get on target here. You can return to your little slap fight afterwards if you want, but read the last few pages. Look at the cases on Rayne, and look at his filter. Then put your votes where they belong, and comment. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar could you or someone else like Ace come in and tell these idiots why claiming miller at the start of the game is either scummy or extremely dumb. So, we're back to you wanting to lynch BM as a policy because he claimed miller? On April 22 2013 08:09 Ace wrote: newbie and null. Not interested in lynching anyone specific at the moment. I'm just sitting back reading and will see what happens. I'm a little wary of you sitting back, I've heard you generally take a less active role as scum. What do you think of Rayn right now? | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:20 Ace wrote: I dont know why people keep saying that. I've got more than 30 games on this forum behaving all kinds of ways. My activity depends on how I feel, what I see, and how active other players are. Ah, I see. It's just something I've heard brought up so many times I thought it was true. As you were, but I'm hoping you'll post something awesome today. QUOTE]On April 22 2013 08:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Sharrant I had thought the same thing about Ace in the past but the past few games as town he has done the exact same thing. Null to me.[/QUOTE] Good to know, thank you. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant let's end this incredibly useless shit about the policy lynch. I have told the thread why i'm voting for BM, and i'm expecting him to answer me regarding that. We are getting nowhere before we hear from him and this is really useless. Call my vote a policy lynch vote or whatever, i really don't care before BM comes in and answers. I have only talked about policy lynch stuff when other people have brought that topic up. No, I want to sort this out. If you answer this for me satisfactorily, I will give you a reprieve for a bit. What is your exact reasoning for voting for BM. Give me one paragraph, with your thought process. If it's policy, tell me it's policy and the exact policy. If you have other reasoning for it, please detail that reasoning to the best of your ability. I will be reading and cooking for a while. I know this is a Sunday, but I would really like more people to be active. There's 25 people in this game, and honestly it feels like a mini to me. Thank you to the people who are being active. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant: I think there is no reason for a townie to claim miller for the reasons i explained before. If BM was not in fact claiming miller, he should have a damn good reason why he decided to post what he did, because posting (joking?) that as town does not make any sense. I see. I'll wait until Bill Murray is back in the thread before I say anything more about this then, if I feel the need to say anything more. Let's give ourselves another topic then. Pick a player who you would like to discuss with me, and I will read their filter while I cook and eat. I would suggest Mr. Cheesecake, but I would prefer it if you picked the candidate for discussion. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:34 getmoript wrote: For saying that you want to see more out of BM today before you make a decision, you sure aren't interested in having BM pressured whatsoever. That makes absolutely 0 sense to me. Why do that? What's the point? Where is your line of thinking here? You're pressuring Rayn for doing something that he feels is likely to force BM to post more or provide a read. I think your 'case' is shit. Quite frankly, I don't see what's wrong about talking about policy or anything else. Nothing that you've said is damning. The real question is why are you trying to sell your pile of shit like it's anything other than a pile of shit? Explain. I will deal with this post after BM gets back, but as I have agreed with Rayne I will not discuss this any farther until such time. But you would do well to mind your language, anger and vitriol is not what this town requires. If it were not for the incident earlier with Marv and BH I would most likely be pushing for your lynch over Rayne's. I have found you incredibly scummy so far, but by merit out out of game action, you seem likely to be town. Now, I do have a theory about what actually happened, and why Marv being kicked from the game actually points more towards you being scum, but the time for such speculation is post game. As such from this point I am ignoring all of Marv's interaction with the thread, and treating you as if you have been playing on your own from the start. We shall see how I feel after I have reread your filter in this new light a few times. | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant are you treating Geript as confirmed town or not? I am treating him the same as everyone else. As I stated, I am willfully ignoring everything involving the hydra, Marv, and BH's mod actions. | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he is incredibly scummy why are you not voting for him? As I stated, I am currently cooking myself food, I have not yet completely come back to the game. When I read through his filter again, I will decide if my previous judgement of him being incredibly scummy stands, or whether he is townie. I quite explicitly stated that the point I have considered him a suspect from was only a few minutes ago, and that I have been busy. | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:08 Vivax wrote: Recap: Rayn would lynch hopeless. Sharrant, can you look at hopeless? Let me summarize his play so far: Attempts to stop people from getting townreads, agreeing with Kush on geript being town cause of marv. Basically, he started the game with a rather odd question. I don't think it's a prime interest for town to ask someone to expand on his townreads, especially at that early stage in the game. Why, you ask? Scum doesn't want townreads between townies, town doesn't care about townreads unless it concerns one of their scumreads, and neither me nor Palmar seemed to look scummy to hopeless, so I don't see his motivation for asking that question except for looking like he's doing something or let us talk about secondary stuf I will give his filter a read shortly, there's a few I have to go through so it will take some time. Except it some time after I have finished supper. | ||
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@Vivax On April 22 2013 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote: Palmar's explanation for why he gave you a townread doesn't make sense to me and I want to question it. No one is confirmed fuck-all until they flip, but you throw it around based on the fact that they posted in the thread before you. I'd call that as you being reckless. Not scum, not town. Palmar disagrees and has cited some kind of reasoning. I wish to hear it. This is the most bothersome quote in Hopeless' filter. It reads to me as if he already knows Vivax is town, so he's not thinking about the play in every possible scenario. If Vivax is town: The play is indeed somewhat reckless, but it also has some degree of accuracy. Mafia generally will float towards their QT at the beginning to check out their new toy, and coordinate. This is not fool proof, but is at least grounded in logic, and offers a decent way to focus your search during the first day. If Vivax is mafia: The play is bad. He's given out several townreads (which always sticks in peoples mind as mafia oriented), and he potentially denies himself opportunities for easy mislynches or he has to go back on his town reads. Whether or not that makes him suspicious to everyone else is moot, because it will make him feel like he's being suspicious and less safe. If Vivax is third party: This is pretty much the same as if he's town as his main goal is just survival, and scum hunting will help in that survival. That Hopeless does not seem to ever figure out why Palmar can attach town value to Vivax's statement, and that he does not seem to have mentally played out each situation is suspicious. There's a more I could write, but as is I would A) like to see more from him so I can see if he follows the same patterns I'm seeing B) I would prefer other lynches over him at this point. When I see more from him I will reevaluate again as to whether he should be more of a priority lynch. I do consider him a good lynch, and likely mafia, but there are others I would lynch before him. | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:38 getmoript wrote: I think there's a reasonable value oddly enought to the Vivax conjecture. Anyone who posted early is more likely, as a general rule, to be town as scum are more likely consult a QT for direction and coordinate first. The problem with the heuristic is quite simply that it doesn't work for everyone equally; as a general rule, I think it's likely to be true, but without applying it to the specific people that posted early makes it more of a generally worthless statement. Sylencia -- As far as I know he is a noob, so I'm guessing more likely town then yamato--I am unaware of his scum tendencies, but don't think that posting early is indicative either way oats--AFAIK he's a vet, in the least he's towards the spammy aggressive side which makes posting early non-alignment indicative WoS--he always rolls scum so there's that I guess geript--Clearly an egotistical maniac and posted in The Game early as scum, so again non-alignment indicative Shaio--No clue as to experience, wanting to kill BM is more likely town Vivax--I'm not familiar enough with his meta, but the odd statement alone makes me think he's more likely town as I don't think he's crazy enough to spout that as scum So far, the list of people that I'm not interested in lynching today: Sylencia Vivax Shaio Palmar As much as I loathe to admit it, I think this post was made by a townie. I think everyone can see how objectively scummy this post is, but the following post reads townie enough that I don't think he's a good lynch at this point. On April 22 2013 01:48 getmoript wrote: How would you even know this? Are you scum? Did you receive a QT in your PM? Did you receive the QT in the same pm or a different pm? You are treading on highly suspicious ground for me because as a hydra I received my hydra QT in the same PM. You aren't a hydra clearly. How would you know that? I don't think he's faking this. I think at this point in the game he earnestly thinks he just nailed one of the mafia in a slip up. I read someone who is a little paranoid, but excited because he's sure he just bagged the day 1 lynch in town's favour. The other thing is that even with how objectively scummy the first post is, he follows the exact same train of thought that I did regarding Vivax's alignment based solely off of that post. I don't think he puts nearly as much stock in it's reflection on Vivax as I do, but he definitely comes out on the right side of this one by saying that it makes Vivax look townie. | ||
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On April 22 2013 10:44 ShiaoPi wrote: @ObviousOne: Which post are you referring to? This one: + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2013 17:59 ShiaoPi wrote: /obs or if you want a cohost with an East asian timezone, I'd be up for that too  Still got shittons of catching up to do, just saw that as I scrolled over the last page ShiaoPi, at your earliest possible convenience I would like you to tell me how you feel about Raynepelikoneet, TheRavensName, Hopeless1nder, and one person of your choosing. I'll accept as low as one sentence on the first 3, but whoever you choose I'd like you to write something of decent size about. | ||
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On April 22 2013 10:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant what do you think of my & GiygaS' exchange of posts i nthe last two pages? Truth be told, I haven't got really strong feelings about it one way or the other. I am concerned he did not notice that Hopeless was doing the same thing that he found another person scummy for, but his reaction to being called out on it wasn't particularly telling to me. I will say that at this point it seems likely that the two of you cannot both be mafia. Is there something you find particularly telling in your exchange that you would like me to think about? I would like you to pick someone from the player list for us to talk about in any case. | ||
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On April 22 2013 11:54 ShiaoPi wrote: Sooo....more or less caught up now. Let's first clarify my stance on BM: I was curious if anyone would just jump on it without too much reasoning. Now on BM in general I loathe his play as it is fucking terrible as town, look at the endgame of LVII for more details. Raynepelikoneet: Nothing to see here. TheRavensName: Just some noobing around. Hopeless1nder: Also nothing of note here. There you go, one sentence each. You also asked to have something on someone else with decent size? I CHOOSE YOU SHARRANT! In all seriousness, I do not like the direction your posting is going to: You begin by heaping suspicion on TRN with some crap arguments and drop you vote. I would not take offense if this was just used in terms of pressuring someone who's play you think is lackluster. However you do not even refer to him again as scummy as soon as other people said that they thought he was noob. TRN is absent during this time but even after he returns you seem to have conveniently forgotten his existence when you saw that nothing was sticking. I mean you do not even take into account the post TRN made after he popped back in: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 10:32 TheRavensName wrote: Thank you for directing me to the podcast. I ended up listening to it while I did some work and read the thread before having to run off to do some errands. Huge help in making me understand a little bit more. Still not sure I understand how spam is town, but apparently the expliantion is spam is townie... Since basically they said if your really active no one will want to kill you and that seems like good scum motivation too. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 04:56 Sharrant wrote: @TheRavensName Who would you like to lynch right now? Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere? Do you think Oats is more likely scum, or more likely town? Since I was asked, I have been in the last 3 NMM games in a row, your free to find them yourself (Isn't there a big database of games?) but I don't really think I can read into how I playbecause I ended up playing differently all three games. I don't know how Oats plays so I dunno if he really just spams that much at the start, so I will ignore that. I like how he points out the thing about Palmer's town read and trying to act like it was super awesome when it didn't do much so yea.... I feel like its a good point and its the only thing of any real substance in his filter. So, I would like to see something that seems more useful; I don't want to make a judgement off of basically one real point repeated a few points. I would be against lynching Rayn. In one of the Newbie games we played together we were in a similar situation and he took the opportunity to rip through me and just tunnel the entire game, so I think if he was scum this would be unlike him and I feel like I could have been a pretty easy push if he wanted to since he managed to basically do it before off less, even if there are much better people here who could see through it. (Unless he wantsto be my budy. dun dun dun.) In the same vain, I think Sharrant started out by taking a really easy way out of attacking me right out the gate and then just focuses on me and pushes around till hearing a few people saying that I was at least not scum, and then hops on Rayn without any real expliantion besides that hes going after BM for the miller soft claim and the fact that BM seems to be being useless, but that makes Ray more scummy then BM or someone else when Ray is actually being fairly active? So based off what I can figure out, I dislike Sharrant. He was convinced I was vote worthy, then hoped off before I got a chance to respond, but doesn't want to make a comment on BM til lBM shows up. Seems sketchy for me, and would probably be my vote target at the moment, but there is plenty of reading to be done and lots of time for more things to read.  Now if I recall correctly your potential scumlist right now should read something like: Rayne, TRN, Sylencia ? Soooo what happened to your read on TRN? Oh, no, I have been paying close attention to TRN. But I would like you to be somewhat explicit here before I answer. Are you calling me scum? Because you've given yourself an out in your post, and I don't like that. Tell me that you think I'm scum, or tell me that you think I'm a townie whose posts you dislike, because right now you've only said you dislike how my posts are going. | ||
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On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote: Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now? I am calling you scummy That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town. | ||
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On April 22 2013 11:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Did you take a look at WoS? You asked me to give us someone to talk about, i responded: What do you think? WoS is someone I'm not particularly confident in either way. I like that he seems to be stepping on a lot of toes, and getting into a lot of clashes with people. His attitude strikes me as quite carefree, which is usually a town trait, I'd have to look into more games of his to confirm that as I only briefly read him in Hydra II (I think he was with Mr Cheesecake and was town). I don't like that I feel that I have to read between the lines to figure out who he thinks is scum, and who he thinks is town. I would feel more comfortable with him explicitly stating his reads, as I believe we agree on several town reads. I do not think he is a good lynch today, most likely not on day 2 either. However if his play continues to skirt around issues I would be more interested in lynching him. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:07 ShiaoPi wrote: What made you change your mind? This response is terribly lacking.... He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player. Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for. I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion? It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). On April 22 2013 12:32 ShiaoPi wrote: At least more content than your last answer. If TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, why did you vote him? Isn't that fulfilling your own conclusion that you are mafia, by virtue of going after the lynchbait? What the fuck dude? Now what do you make of all the others who also defended TRN? All team mafia?? What do you say about Ace and others who also had a townread (or at least null) on TRN? You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy. About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. On April 22 2013 06:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote: /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes? That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote: i was making a joke about his stupid sounding name it wasn't a serious claim whatsoever this is why the internet is not good for tone. And with that, I'm going to bed... Good night, everyone. | ||
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Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back. The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter. I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him. The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter. If you can't understand that, I can't help you. | ||
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Clarity should be lynched tomorrow, a few people have made cases on why, and they're quite right. He apparently spent 4 hours reading the thread and came up with not even half a case on me, and refused to comment on the lynch that was happening right in front of his eyes all the while flip flopping on the amount of time and effort he supposedly put in. He's obvious enough at this point that everyone should be on board with his lynch, I don't think there's more that needs to be said about him. Responses to cases and stuff: @Clarity There's nothing in your case to respond to. You obviously just skimmed my filter and tried to pick out what you could skew to look mafia oriented, and you failed miserably at that. @Rayne + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2013 15:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: About Sharrant: First he makes a case on TRN. The case in itself is not bad if you have never seen how TRN plays. But there is this question: I call him out for this question which i find to be scummy. Sharrant's answer is: Sharrant later on calls me out for saying; "So you say TRN is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes?". This is correct, mainly because Sharrant and Vivax both attacked TRN early on in the game, after that TRN went defensive and answered their questions. Sharrant is even adding more fuel into the fire by asking TRN to point him to his games on TL. Why do you think it is TRN's (or anyone other than yours) job to guide you into his past games? And why do you call me out for poining out the fact (as i have witnessed it myself) that TRN is easy to sidetrack from what he is supposed to do -> find mafia? Next thing. Sharrant's case on me. His points against me are; BM-policy lynch discussion (understandable as i failed to explain myself clearly enough) and that i called him scummy for asking TRN to point him to his last games. Which i still think is scummy. Next i explain him my BM vote, he is pleased with my answer, at least that reads so to me. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 08:40 Sharrant wrote: I see. I'll wait until Bill Murray is back in the thread before I say anything more about this then, if I feel the need to say anything more. Let's give ourselves another topic then. Pick a player who you would like to discuss with me, and I will read their filter while I cook and eat. I would suggest Mr. Cheesecake, but I would prefer it if you picked the candidate for discussion. In the same quote he asks me to pick a player to discuss. Why do you want me, your scumread to pick a player to discuss? If i thought you were scum i would be damn sure i wanted to pick the people we discuss (other scummy people). After that we discuss WoS and GiygaS. I also ask him about geript. I am the one asking all the questions. Note that Sharrant would have liked to discuss Mr.Cheesecake. If i am your scumread, why do you allow me to drive the discussion between us? Why do you not want to find out my scumbuddies when talking with me? Then Sharrant suddenly changes his scumread on TRN into null/leaning town. The reason is TRN saying i have told him i would use weak townies as town-credit-collectors by defending them. Sharrant takes this at face value. TRN was your scumread at that time, why didn't you take any action to figure out if he was telling the truth or not, as he wasn't? Then comes in his theory (based on what TRN said) about me trying to gain town-credit for TRN's lynch. The theory is ridiculous in the first place, if people can't see why idk what to say. He also makes a big post about it: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote: It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? At the end of that post he also says his scumread on me has weakened. After that i vote for Sharrant. This is his answer to the case: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote: It's a good try, Rayne, but no. Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back. The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter. I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him. The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter. If you can't understand that, I can't help you. Now, suddenly i am 100% scum again. But no more is my town-credit-gaining a reason why i am scum. It's all back to the point that i "disguised my policy lynch vote on BM into something else". But he was already okay with my answer. Hell, he does not even answer anything to my case. Why did you make a big post about the theory of me trying to gain credit from defending town!TRN, if it isn't even part of the case against me, what's the point? TLDR; 1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him? 2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that? 3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion? 4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread? 5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread? And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour. 1. It's laughable that yous till think that asking for games is a scum tell, but run with it if it makes you happy. He did point me to his games, just not linked them. Not as helpful as I would have hoped he would have been, but he didn't mention any games off site which was the concern. 2. I never stated I was pleased with your answer. I asked you to restate so everyone would see that your answers still did not match up with what you had said earlier in the thread. Pushing that singular point any more would just make the thread more of a mess than it was starting to be, and the whole point would get lost and thus once I had you restate it again clearly there was no more value to be gained from going after you on that point at that time. So instead, I wanted to move you onto topics that would be helpful regardless of whether I was wrong or right about your alignment. 3. The choice of who to talk about is as telling as the choice of who not to talk about, I'll learn more about your alignment from you picking who you want to discuss then I will from giving you the topics I want you to discuss. It tells you too much about how I already lean on those topics, and having you drive the discussion lets me get a better feel for you. 4. I'm really surprised you don't get this part. Lots of newer scum buddy people, especially people that defend them. Here he shows that he's suspicious of the fact that you defended him, regardless of whether the fact he stated was misremembered (apparently someone else in that game had said it) he showed that his thought process went "Hey! This guy has taken up a shield for me" -> "Wait, why did he do that?" When as a new scum scared to be in his first big game would have been more hesitant to put any tarnish on his knight's armour. 5. You're mixing up your time periods so bad that this question is just a jumble of words. Your staunch defense of him got me to check out your filter. His subsequent "Hey, why are you defending me?" moment made him more than likely town. @WaveofShadows On April 24 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey Sharrant, where you at bro? Any thoughts on yamato/Oats since you seem to have conveniently missed it entirely? Updated thoughts on Rayn/Shiao? I think Oats was a good lynch because of how useless he was being, it's a shame he turned out to be town, but at least he was a non-self aware miller. That said, I think there were better lynches for that day, Clarity and Rayne being two I think would have been better lynches. Yamato is almost definitely town, everything about his posts on the second half of day one scream town yamato in a way I don't think he knows how to replicate as scum. Last time I played with him when he was scum I caught him (but was not able to get him lynched before I was killed) because of how glaring the difference is between him being the townie, headstrong Yamato and him trying to emulate the townie headstrong Yamato. I hope that satisfies your curiousity. If there was one or two things in particular that lead you to have such a strong town read on me, what would they be? I'm going to be around for a while doing some filter diving in, so I'm available for questions. It is very likely that I will be unavailable for Thursday, and possibly some or all of Friday (excepting phone posting which I hate hate hate doing). There will be 0 posts from me between midnight tonight, and Thursday night. | ||
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On April 25 2013 01:28 Sylencia wrote: CC - Kush Town Voted Getmoript due to wishy washyness Unvoted due to incident. Leaned towards oats based on effort. Wants to lynch ShiaoPi Sharrent Town read Note: Mentions being town billions of times WaveOfShadow: VE Town Read Voted Getmoript due to answer dodging Unvoted due to incident. Becomes a bit suspicious of VE due to lack of posting. Sharrant town read Suspicious of ShiaoPi due to attack on Sharrant Reinforced Sharrant town read grush: bandwagons yamato suspects gigyas due to bandwagon. a lot of off topic comments Note: I'm suspicious of grush here for his hypocritical reasoning: Yet his bandwagon: When asked about whether he would vote Yamato. Tube: ??? Drazak: Has posted, but has never returned since. Giygas: Suspected Oats due to attitude and lack of posts. Hopeless not suspected as scum Sharrant town read Would've supported yamato lynch if hammertime. Sylencia: Semi-suspected TRN due to the rayn defense provided Suspects Rayn due to inconsistent statements about miller lynch / scum suspicion of BM Wagoned on Oats due to lack of town contribution from Oats. VisceraEyes: Early on uneasy about Palmar. Voted getmoript for bad case against yamato (?) Suspected yamato due to "Oh well you know my posting was INTENTIONALLY bad". types of posts voted BM due to his response to BC (quote is below) Note: I don't see what is so bad about this post in general, apparently it comes off as antagonistic. Switches to yamato a few hours later without ever mentioning BM again, despite already getting a response from him and being responded to with a request for an explanation. Says he can get behind an Oats lynch. Only now does he decide to actually read yamato's filter. (Vote was originally pure omgus) switches to oats for original suspicion of oats (2 points above) Note: Reading the filter and looking at some of the points in context such as the argument for BM has made me feel rather suspicious towards VE. Now, I will continue going through everyone's filters for their suspicions and other points tomorrow if I am still alive (public holiday hooray), but from what I have seen as of so far, I would like opinions on VE and grush (am I missing something about grush gameplay here?) Also, I fully know well that filter dive posts doesn't show anything about alignment, so no need to mention that too thx Hey, Sylencia, glad to see you around. It looks like you put in a lot of work going through filters, but I don't see a lot of reads, just a lot of summary. Is this a list of your top suspects or just a collection of players? Because at one point you actually mention yourself on your list, and that just seems a little strange to me. I can tell you've got a scum read on VE, and at least a bit of a scum read on Grush, does this mean the other players are also suspicious in your eyes or are they town or null? I'm just having a bit of trouble making heads or tails of it all. | ||
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On April 25 2013 01:34 Ange777 wrote: Night 1 ends in ~ 2,5 hours at 19:00 GMT (+00:00)! Please remember to get in all night actions to Blazinghand and all 3 co-hosts! Thank you! On April 25 2013 01:32 ObviousOne wrote: I'm sort of around, yes. Was about to fire up some D3 for unmitigable demon slaughter for a few but if you have something you want to talk out bring it up before I go fullscreen! Are you one of the people that believes in hosts attempting to balance player skill between scum and town teams? | ||
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On April 25 2013 01:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Let's chat about how useless kush and Sylencia's posts are. Like...why even post? Kush is so town it's not even funny. Sylencia I'm really sure about, I want him to explain that post more. | ||
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Sylencia I'm not really sure about* | ||
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On April 25 2013 01:43 ObviousOne wrote: Syl is not a project for D2 IMO. Grush did starsenses so he is town. Has he played in a game as mafia since he started doing the starsenses thing? | ||
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It's a typo, BM. Join in the fun, have a conversation with those of us that aren't vets. | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:00 Bill Murray wrote: how is that a typo? you are slipping regarding you having too much information, and therefore, mafia Like I said to someone else already, run with that if you think you can. It was a typo. Now, like I said, join in the conversation. What do you think of Sylencia's post and the fact that he did not stick around to clarify it at all? | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:04 Bill Murray wrote: makes me lean town on him, but I want to see more before it's more than a lean. sorry to doublepost. Good to know. What do you think of WoS right now? @WaveofShadows You didn't dispute me, or respond when I said Kush was super town. Am I to believe that you agree that he is town? | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:07 ObviousOne wrote: Getting on Syl for activity is like getting on Mocsta for spamming. It is what it is. From what I remember in TTABEN mafia he only really gets to post a couple times a day. Yeah it's not a great post. I'd like to see where it's headed. Let's see what he makes of it when he returns instead of starting an activity argument that he will probably feel compelled to defend himself against therefore continuing the cycle of not having time to give reads. I don't want him to defend himself, I just want him to clarify why the people he summaried were chosen, and what the end result was on the people that he did not explicitly state were scummy. I'm led to assume they're town, but I'd just like to be sure that's what he's saying. His activity isn't an issue to me, most people jump on me for my lack of activity, so I view it as null in most cases anyways. | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:14 Bill Murray wrote: i was leaning town on him until theravensname brought up some points and it made me feel like WoS is a bit opportunistic Okay, we're mostly on the same page there, then. If he had said he thought Kush was town, it would've been a big hint towards him being scum. So his last few posts actually made me think he was a little more townie again. | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:23 Sylencia wrote: I've been going through people as a collection (hence why the list is so messy), yet going through them I found myself to become more suspicious of VE and grush so far. Unless something pretty much proves them to be innocent, I don't generally find true town reads since it's dependent on having information you don't have. In any case, no one on that list (other than myself) I can say that I have a strong town read on, Wave of Shadow is probably the person on that current list I have the least suspicion on, but in any case, I am more concerned with the ones I find most suspicious, not the least. Okay, so would it be accurate to say anyone on that list not explicitly marked as suspicious ranges somewhere in slight townie-null-slight scummy? Or townie-slight townie-null-slight scummy? And is there a specific reason you chose those people to start with? And last but not least, can you give me a quick read on Yamato? | ||
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On April 25 2013 02:26 Sylencia wrote: Also, are you guys actually serious about grush starsenses things... That's like saying WoS isn't scum becuase he hasn't rolled scum. (Am I not allowed to go watch Game of Thrones after posting) I don't put any weight in it, but he hasn't popped up on my radar yet as someone I think is scummy. | ||
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Super town: BM Vivax Kush Palmar Town: Yamato ObviousOne Geript Rayne TRN Slightly town: Ace BC Sylencia Hopeless Null: Drazak Tube Mr. Cheesecake VisceraEyes WoS Grush Lynch one of these tomorrow: Clarity ShiaoPi Less good lynches, but still good lynches: Giygas Stutters695 (A better vig shot, but is very likely to be scum in my eyes) | ||
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On April 25 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'm glad you seem to understand me Sharrant. I feel sorry for you (us) for wasting a good portion of D1.. :/ I'm certainly not sorry for it, I think it bagged us two scum. | ||
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On April 25 2013 04:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote: My first thought after reading which role Vivax has was if he breadcrumbed that he was a mason, or with whom he was masoned. Scum killing Vivax is a concept I cannot grasp with this player field, so it had to be a blue snipe.. right? Other thought that occurs is that the scum team probably has a few vets and doesn't want to thin out the vet field as it could expose them. Welcome, Artanis. Had you read the thread at all before now? | ||
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On April 25 2013 04:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Can you tell me why they're scum first? There is also the possibility like I said that Vivax' mason partner was scum. That way, scum would know that he's blue. I just can't wrap my head around a N1 Vivax kill. No offense to him, but there's plenty of scarier players in the game that can scumhunt better than him. [/b] Are masons able to mason starting on Day 1, or is their first possible chance to mason someone at the end of Night 1? [/b] Have you read through Vivax's filter? I would suggest you do so, and then come back and decide if you think he was shot as a snipe or because of his play. | ||
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On April 25 2013 11:08 VisceraEyes wrote: No man, if that's the case give me a bit. Okay, just let me know when you've given him a read over. | ||
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Clarity came into the thread saying that he had just found out the game started, and after an hour he claimed to have read the whole thread AND filter dived me. The thread was already huge and pretty convoluted at that point, but it still took him barely any time to go through. Then he makes his case against me, it's a wall of quotes taken out of context and words twisted. It completely lacks the understanding of someone who actually read my filter, let alone someone who actually read the game. His entire case is looking for buzzwords in my filter, and then slapping some words down. He claims I give Hopeless an easy out, when he doesn't actually understand the "pattern" I was talking about. He is entirely uninformed as to how important Bill Murray's singular post was to the thread, when he thinks that I am trying to put pressure on Bill Murray by asking him to come back to the thread. He does not realize the entire thread is waiting for that to more accurately judge the reactions of the people who have become wound up on what they thought was a claim. When I asked ShiaoPi for his reads (he had given none) Clarity states that I am scummy for asking, and that I hadn't given reads on any of those players (all of them are clearly in my filter, in fact he had already referenced one of the cases by name saying I gave him an easy out). Claims my questions to the two leading vote candidates were "scattershot" questions, showing a complete lack of understanding that they're the two people that everyone is trying to discern the alignment of the most. And seems entirely devoid of curiousity to their alignments. His next post is actually saying "I started reading, then looked at the last 2 pages, then thought I needed to post something really quick". This would explain his second post more, but then he goes back and says twice that he read the whole thread already on two different occasions. Kind of a big inconsistency. He then makes a little "Oh, woe is me, I have shown up too late today to influence the days lynch onto this guy." He then proceeds to throw doubt onto both the Yamato and the Oatsmaster lynch, both in non-constructive ways. While still being ENTIRELY DISINTERESTED IN THEIR ALIGNMENTS. He essentially says "I didn't want to read them, but they're both policy lynches and you're bad for it, but I'm not going to take the time to analyze them." Then he says he shouldn't have posted the case yet, it was weak, he didn't have enough time to make a good case, but would have felt guilty not posting anything. (I see this more as, he would have felt suspicious if he had not posted anything). He didn't want to lynch Oats, but he also "didn't want to not lynch Oats". Could you possibly be any more indecisive? Could you care less about a lynch than that? Why did he not push anyone else during this time? He gave up entirely on pushing me by this time and never pushed anyone else or dropped anymore cases. Then he starts putting suspicion on Yamato without calling him scummy, just trying to reinforce that he should have been lynched over Oats but without sticking his neck out far enough to say it. Suddenly he had four hours to read the thread before his second post, not one as he had said, but that was too little time to have more than one scum read, or make a decent case, or be able to "understand the points against Yamato and Oats". How can you have four hours to read AND HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT? Then suddenly it was only 2 hours he was reading, but with another panicked hour fitting inthere somewhere when he mistakenly got the idea Oats was about to be hammered. Then he finally settles on having read through everything for a total of 3 hours before he posted the case on me. He did not care about the lynch between Oats and Yamato at all, literally no interest. But despite that, he had read their filters but had no idea why either of them were getting lynched. He spent three hours to come up with a weak case that looks like 10 minutes of filter diving for quotes that can be taken out of context, and he categorically denied sharing any reads about players except for a town read on Bill Murray and another one on BloodyCobbler. This is why I'm voting Clarity today, and why everyone else should be too. | ||
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Ve is not on the chopping block either. Talk to you guys soon. | ||
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Do you think shiaopi was really mafia and just sort of super soft bussing tube despite tube being under no real pressure? | ||
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On April 25 2013 20:29 ShiaoPi wrote: Can we kill tube? He does fucking nothing and ninjavotes as well.... Fucking sad This post makes me fairly uninterested in going after ShiaoPi today. On Palmar: He should not be lynched today, it doesn't matter how scummy you think he is. There's like a 1% chance he's actually scum, and if he is he has to reveal it in the next couple of days. The possible play for mafia of Roleblocking him, and withholding a shot to kill him is so weak that I don't think it needs to be considered. Him and Vivax were both considered very town by the thread, neither gave any reason to think they might be a veteran. There were only a few people that had done a very good job of making themselves look like town: Kush, Vivax, and BM Of the people who had done a good job of making themselves look town, Palmar was the strongest player. BM is such a volatile player that he could easily switch and become a majorly scummy looking player, and Kush is probably the weakest analyzer of the group. Palmar and Vivax make great shots (assuming Palmar is town). That's an incredibly likely situation to me. Now if he's mafia, the play doesn't make any sense. They sacrifice one KP on night one, and they most likely sacrifice a role block that could potentially stop a check, to give some town cred. This is already a decently big sacrifice, but it's also the worst possible player to do it on. Are you going to believe that a town Palmar makes it to LyLo? Hell, if Palmar is alive on Day 4 would any of you think anything but insta-lynch him? This plan becomes even worse then, when you consider that if he was RB'ed and shot tonight, then almost certainly he would be shot again or double stacked the next night. So every night they have to withhold one KP either by double stacking or just not firing. The amount they have to sacrifice to make the situation plausible is too much. However, since BC also claimed roleblock, it is entirely possible that scum shot BC and not Palmar. This seems very unlikely to me because BC seems almost destined to be mislynched because of how much everyone (mistakenly or not) seems to mistrust him. So yes, Palmar could be mafia, but it's very unlikely, and it will be very obvious after a day or two if he is. | ||
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Person that needs to die after: Stutters695 If you believe at all in hosts balancing the game, then you should want Stutters dead. I have all 3 real "veteran" players that are in the game marked as slightly townie or higher for each of them. However, people seem to forget we have 4 veterans. DrHelvetica started off in this game before being replaced by Stutters. When we hit night phase he needs to be shot ASAP. It seems to me that this game is coming together nicely for town, which either means some very townie people are mafia, or the mafia are in a very weak position. If their team started off with Tube (impossibly lurky), Clarity (incredibly lurky), DrH (needed to be replaced, replacement only has 2 posts) then this would make a lot of sense. DrH/Stutters deserves a bullet, not a noose. Someone make it happen when we hit night. | ||
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On April 26 2013 13:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: One thing i don't agree with your analysis Sharrant. If Palmar was mafia and BC town i would find it likely that mafia would shoot BC over anyone but maybe Ace in addition to Vivax. No matter how right or wrong he is on D1 he is capable of destroying scumteams if they let him live. I'm not sure I follow, that just sounds like another point as to why Palmar isn't mafia. If you believe a mafia Palmar would shoot BC over anyone (with Ace a close second) but the only shot was Vivax, then does that not say you believe Palmar is not mafia? I think we may have our wires crossed again, help me out here. | ||
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On April 26 2013 13:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: As BC claimed roleblocked there is a possibility that scum shot him right? If Palmar is mafia, scum probably shot BC if he is town. Ah, I get you know. That is a possibility, but I still find it quite unlikely, I will however keep it in mind. At any rate, I don't think you can disagree that if Palmar is mafia trying to pull the wool over town's eyes with this one, it is doomed to fail because he's not a player that will benefit from the plan as he either dies quickly or will get lynched. | ||
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On April 26 2013 14:05 Ace wrote: I forgot I had already switched my vote to Clarity earlier so its already on his wagon. Sharrant besides stutters, what do you think about lynching Clarity and then viging into the Oats' suspects I named? I would take Kush out of the list (both times), ShiaoPi. You have succeeded in sparking some suspicion on Yamato from me, but I'm not interested in having him vigged, nor am I sure that I want him flipped at any point. He still reads really headstrong, and that's enough to keep me satisfied for the moment. I've had a long day so I won't be able to give his filter a dive until tomorrow, I'll let you know what I think about him specifically when I get up. After that I think GiygaS is probably the best vigi shot, someone brought up some decent points about him earlier, and I remember reading through the thread on my phone gave me the impression that he just sort of ended up wherever there was more than 3 people that started sharing an opinion. The order in which I'd shoot them is: GiygaS > MrCC > WoS=Hopeless I'll let you know in the morning where Yamato fits into that list, or why he doesn't belong in that list. One of ObviousOne's last few posts just made me think he's probably going to end up in first or second on that list when I read through, if he was correct about what Yamato said. | ||
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You posted later, and had four people you wanted to lynch, but Clarity was not among them and seems to have escaped your notice again. Do you still think Clarity is scummy, or have you moved him to null or townie? Why did you <insert whichever thing you did>? @Rayne: It's on my list to do when I wake up. Good night, everyone. | ||
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As far as Yamato goes, I'm still thinking he's most likely town. I would not place him in the vig list. Also, anyone that thinks VE is scum shouldn't think that Yamato is too. Yamato pushed really hard for VE's lynch on day one. If there's anyone that has both VE and Yamato as strong scum reads, they should be looked into. I'll be reading from my phone for the next while. I won't be posting unless there's something particularly important I find, or if someone asks me something that only takes a small response. | ||
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On April 27 2013 00:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato being absentee is fucking weird...he didn't give any indication that he'd be gone for so long and he's got a BC case to refute if he can. I want to lynch Palmar still. Nothing has changed since I left except BM posting a lot and Palmar continuing to be awful. You're not lynching palmar today, and that's final. Lynch clarity or with me. Or explain how other people jumped ahead of him in terms of scumminess. | ||
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Mafia are just not in a position where bussing is a particularly viable strategy. Read through the OP quickly. If we lynch a mafia right now they will have a single factional KP, and we most likely blocked a KP on night one. This means that a bus would make it 18 (minus whatever amount of third party, though only poisoner and survivor seem likely at this point) to 3. Mafia can have at most 3 vigis. So mafia can set town down to 14-3, at best, but then they will be stuck with 1 KP for the rest of the game, but most likely the roles only allow them to put it at 16-3, maybe even only 17-3 with good protections by town. (this doesn't include town vig shots which can make it better for mafia, or potentially wipe them out entirely at this point) If they can force a mislynch then they will have 2 kp tonight + vigis +another mislynched townie. Given that we can't know for how long the mafia knew in advance that Tube would be mod killed, I don't think it's likely that any of the mafia were bussing on Day 2 unless it was very soft bussing. Adding this on top of Ace's analysis of ShiaoPi from earlier actually makes me feel like ShiaoPi would be a very bad lynch for today. I don't really feel great about using a mod kill to flip Clarity. I'd rather lynch him if only to stay in the spirit of the game, but since we can take as long as we want, I'm willing to be flexible on this one. | ||
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Ace, I'm in love with the analysis you posted while I was gone from the thread. Right now I want vigi shots on Stutters and Hopeless. I may change my mind about Hopeless, I'm going to do a long read of him later. Stutters is a lurker, taking over for a vet (when the other 3 vets look townie) and he soft defended clarity while voting ShiaoPi. | ||
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On April 28 2013 05:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Shoot waveofshadow 100% Convince me on this one, I have some suspicions, let's figure out if they're the same. | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and don't bother not vigging and trying to DT check me because I'm self-aware miller. You guys need to decide if you don't trust me and want me gone or not. On April 28 2013 06:04 Palmar wrote: oh actually that might be stupid enough for him not to be scum. changed my mind. Shoot VE for being wrong and bad. Palmar, our minds went the opposite directions on this one. I didn't think he should be shot, but maybe lynched in a day or two. This claim makes me think he has to be shot now. If he were self aware miller I think he would've shown more interest in the discussion about BM's possible miller claim, the discussion of miller policy, and done more about it than make one post that seemed really sarcastic and flippant of the whole situation. On April 22 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Millers totes important, bro. Hey Marv/Geript, still looking for an answer to my question you've so conveniently ignored. Does that change your thoughts about his claim? | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:28 grush57 wrote: sk and sp have to send in night action every day and can not get mediced. However Palmar did get rbed so it is a possibility of him being 3rd party. So rber rb Palmar I don't follow. Where does it say they cannot be medicced? I only see where their attacks pierce medic protection, at least that's my interpretation. | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:33 Bill Murray wrote: WoS next. He slipped earlier. 100% agree since i pressured Clarity, you all should listen to me Can you show me what his slip was? | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:35 yamato77 wrote: Vick Ace for obvious on clarity proceed to win game GG What are you even saying? | ||
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And here's where you tell me that's a joke, right? Right? | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:45 Bill Murray wrote: 1) i figured that's what he was saying 2) i dont think he's joking 3) ignore him; he's a vi No, can't ignore him. Need to know if he's joking or not. It's very important. On April 28 2013 06:45 Bill Murray wrote: yo anyone remember this post? all i said was "sheverus shnape" i didnt claim ANYTHING town vivax is wanting to question me scum rayn is wanting to push a mislynch on a vet FoS rayn attacks vivax when i dont need an out due to the wording, hell, the LETTERING being an obvious joke...... trying to make an associative tell and chainlynch on d1.... scummy scummy scum this interaction with another scumspect of mine, kush, makes him look awful im saying kush, rayn, and WoS are maf how many are left? brb once i find if WoS chimed in on this I'm honestly not seeing Kush as mafia, I've played with him before, and he's a very stream of consciousness player. His first posts gave me such a town read on him I really don't think he's mafia. I'll look into him again before the night's out, but I don't see it at this point. I think you should take a glance at Stutters. If I could flip anyone right now it would be him. I am almost 100% on him being mafia after Clarity's flip, though if Shiao flips scum I'd be null on him, I think. I'm not sure how I would feel about flipping Rayn this early. I will think about it more, that he was on Clarity's wagon is enough for me to not want him dead at this point, but I'll read over his entry onto the wagon and what was going on before that. | ||
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On April 28 2013 07:16 yamato77 wrote: Lots of desire, very serious. Will talk at length later, not at home. Viging me is fine, since I will flip town and people will stop being dumb about what I say anyway. I'm excited about this, I want to read it, because right now this reads to me as a scum claim from you. On April 28 2013 07:15 grush57 wrote: i meant that whoever the sk or sp shoots will get killed no matter what. there was 2kp. 1 guy got shot. if palmar got rbed the shot wouldnt go throw because a 3rd party + mafia would be 3kp. so whoever roleblocked palmar do it again. The serial poisoner wouldn't show up until night 2's end though, right? Or are notifications given when a player is poisoned? | ||
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For anyone with doubts about BM, I think Clarity's filter should show that they weren't scum together. Clarity brings up lynching ShiaoPi quite a few times, seems to be setting him up for the noose. He also references GiygaS as someone to look into puts him as "who the fuck knows" I'm leaning towards them being opposite alignments because of this, but I haven't read from both angles yet. The other thing is this post in particular jumps out at me: On April 23 2013 16:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Providing easy outs isn't anti-town so much as it is pro-scum. It's very easy to say "do this or I'll lynch you!!!!" because your target will do what you ask. This is fine if you are asking for something that may result in anything but when you ask a question with only one possible answer regardless of your targets alignment then it is just a waste of space. If you are town and you are scumhunting you do NOT want to give whoever you're pressuring the "how-to-get-rid-of-me guide" Asking questions is fine, it generates discussion even when you do it as scum, but when there is no clear motivation NOR follow-up behind the questions then I begin to wonder why the question was asked at all, and I can only see it as feigning to contribute which is obviously a scum trait. Although I don't agree with defending a townread day 1 at all unless they are at risk of being lynched (which he is clearly not) you do make a valid point concerning the first post I addressed. I still believe I am on to something but I can see with the current thread sentiment and the fact that I am in no strong position (showing up way late >.<) that this lynch isn't happening. A weak case is still a case and it could have sparked some discussion that's not centered around oats and yamato which are as far as I'm concerned both policy lynches at best. Where did that come out of? Read through the rest of Clarity's filter and find a post that feels as constructed and peer reviewed as that one. He suddenly comes in and calmly explains something to WoS and sounds like he's writing a paper for a class. Look at every other post in his filter, they all just read like they were slapped out in a minute after finding whichever thing he thought he could run with against a player. Is this Clarity and WoS trying to "act natural" in the thread via prestructured conversation? There's some more interesting things in Clarity's filter, but I'd like someone that isn't Ace/BC/BM/Palmar to find them, and give opinions on them (you four can comment after someone else mentions it). | ||
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BC was mentioned in the thread a few times as being his own worst enemy because his play style has gotten him mislynched recently regardless of the strength of the analysis. I guess a third option I had not properly considered was that scum's second shot actually hit Serial Poisoner last night and fizzled on his night life. I definitely don't have the same townread I had on him going into night 1, but I am fairly sure he is not scum. | ||
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On April 29 2013 04:19 Blazinghand wrote: ShiaoPi has been warned for inactivity. Sutters965 has been warned for inactivity. It would certainly be amusing, but a little depressing if these are the third and fourth inactivity warnings for the scum team. | ||
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I think TRN is a good cop check tonight. No framer anymore (unless scum have two), least likely person to be Godfather. Gives me the heebie jeebies (it's in the long post that will be up soon). Really seems to be just sort of skating by at this point. | ||
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I'm waffling too much about Sylencia. I've written and erased 5 paragraphs worth of back and forth arguments, and I honestly can't decide. He's got some really townie looking stuff that makes me think he's townie, and he has an excuse for his lack of activity recently, but his super low activity and his attempt to push the lynch over to ShiaoPi as he was leaving puts him right back in unknown territory for me. Yamato: He only became a good shot when he said he was still suspicious of Ace. Yamato is always hardheaded, and inelegant when he plays, this is never a reason to lynch him. That's just his style, it works for him, and he consistently plays that way. This negates most of the reasons other people put him as scummy, at least in my opinion. The thing that differentiates his scum play from his town play mostly just seems to be where he's headed, and how the amount of thought he puts into it. That he's been consistently wrong and always seemingly headed in the wrong direction, and then instead of trying to correct his course just tries to butt heads with Ace is the strongest point to him being scum. If he's not shot, he should be a lynch candidate if only to motivate him to play for real. If he's town he can still be a strong player if motivated properly, but he's shown he will need that forced on him. I think the best shots are just firing randomly into: Stutters Yamato Artanis Hopeless I'm the least convinced of a shot on WoS, but it's still worth considering. I'm starting to come back to being suspicious of TRN, I think he's a great cop check as the framer is dead, and he's the least likely person out there to be godfather. Super duper town: Ace Townie or third party: Palmar (I don't see him as mafia, and his post about protection makes me even doubt Third Party except for Survivor. I feel he'd want his night actions too much) Townie: BC Kush BM Geript ObviousOne Grush Null WoS GiygaS Scummy Stutters Artanis Yamato Hopeless People I think need specific talking about: VisceraEyes: The most damning thing to me is saying he could switch to Clarity, but never actually switching, then soft pushing ShiaoPi for the next day. Honestly not sure about him though, his day 2 looked really good up until Clarity flipped and he still hadn't switched. I could see him going either way, but he's not a good shot. If he dies it has to be from a lynch, and it has to be well examined. Rayne: Relatively sure he's town, but there's a few things that still make me double take in his filter. He's most likely town, but should be reexamined if he makes it to end game. Not interested in a shot or lynch on him in the forseeable future. I'd be almost 100% sure he was town if not for the few nagging doubts about his filter. TRN: Something in my gut keeps screaming about him being mafia. Actually, I think I know what it is. For someone who had such a weak early game, and seemed to need so much guidance, he suddenly seemed very flippant and self-assured by day 2. I imagine there will be one "odd man out" kill tonight, as there's most likely a serial poisoner and he had to pick his kill back on night 1. So it will most likely stand out. If there're 4 non-town kills tonight (ie anything not from a claimed vigi) it's probably wise to policy lynch Palmar. The threshold might be 5 non-town kills though, I'm not 100% sure on the numbers. But at 4 you should start looking at any rate. Palmar Ace | ||
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On April 29 2013 05:53 Palmar wrote: I actually just forgot about the Mason QT. You forgot about being masoned? I would very much like to see the mason logs. | ||
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How many posts did Palmar make? Can you please paraphrase as best you can as to his actual respones, with as little as bias as possible. | ||
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On April 25 2013 04:21 TheRavensName wrote: Huh... and Cedric's flavortext lives up to its reputation. That makes sense as to why this post stood out like a sore thumb to me. | ||
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On April 29 2013 07:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Scum has masoners too... why is everyone so quick to believe TRN? I saw something about flavor. Huh. I was about to jump on you about this one, but scum actually can have masoners. I thought only Jacks could mason for scum team. Thank you, I'm not sure how I feel about him now. A point in his favour though, is if he is mafia, Palmar is a bold choice to mason with. | ||
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On April 29 2013 07:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato would be my immediate lynch if I had one. His attitude makes it hard for me to want to lynch anyone else. Is there anything aside from his attitude? Can you show me specific posts you don't think a town Yamato would make? | ||
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On April 29 2013 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I go over his posts later man, I'm about to do family night tonight. You asked me who I'd lynch with no discussion LMAO Like, I get that you and several others are highly suspicious of me for my Shiao push but honestly reading overnight has left me more unsure than when I started. I'm gonna have another look and I'll provide my thoughts about the lynch later on. Right now I'm just following along on my phone. I asked you two questions. Basically, "if you had a bullet, who would die", and "who would you push for lynch today"? Perhaps I could have phrased that better to begin with, but I wanted it to be in the most neutral terms. You don't have to be so defensive, I'm not trying to push for your lynch like I did Clarity, I'm trying to get a read on you to know if I that's what I need to do later. Have a good night with your family, drop some good reads tomorrow, and I'd like for you to answer both questions with some explanation on your choices. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hell. I didn't want to claim but fuck I guess I have to now that Palmar is being retarded if he really is another cop. I'm an Alignment Cop NIGHT 1 = SHIAOPI INNOCENT NIGHT 2 = SYLENCIA GUILTY I wanted to lynch ShaioPi yesterday because I didn't know his alignment despite my check. It would help confirm my sanity. I now know that I cannot be paranoid or naiive, so I'm sane or insane. I'm going to trust Shia is town based on yesterdays events. I am SANE. Sylencia is mafia. I didn't think I'd have to claim today if I could just case Syl T.T This seems pretty reasonable. I will be voting Sylencia. Palmar Who did you try and check on N1? | ||
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Well, if nothing else that part of your story is believable. I think that it's funny that your "attempting to play awful" gave me a strong town read on you though. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:34 Ace wrote: Sharrant dont vote syl yet. Look at those detective checks. Why would he investigate those 2 and claim when he is unconfirmed? he just made a case on sylencia - what is the rush? Palmar's claim should cause him to NOT claim if he is a real detective. You're right. I'll think about this more, I'll be taking my vote off for now. I guess the first place to start is where CC ended up on ShiaoPi yesterday. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:20 Ace wrote: This game shall forever be known as The Triple Cop Claim Caper. I proclaim it thus. ![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXP1AG1axkY/TjZ1ONY5BvI/AAAAAAAAAhk/Vw-NpEIqneo/s1600/crossing-the-red-sea.png) Everything up to this post has pretty much had me in tears. This is just amazing. At this point I feel like we have to lynch Sylencia just because everything somehow landed on his head, but I don't even. I just don't even. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:26 yamato77 wrote: Assuming they're both sane, and real But yeah, instead of thinking about figuring the game out, just call everyone mafia Real town, Ace What is this post? Seriously? Are you not reading the thread? Ace has been the biggest one saying it's likely at least one of the checks are faked, and you feel the need to sling dirt at him in that way? | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah you've drawn your conclusions "from my filter". Good luck with that bruh. VE, I'd like an answer on this one too. The worst thing you can possibly do right now, is get huffy and not explain. If you're mafia, you're painting a big target on your forehead. If you're town, you're doing the same while making everyone actively work against your claim and checks. | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:00 ObviousOne wrote: I think if it helps with your investigations you should kill me today to check your results, but as far as I know I am plain old vanilla as a motherfucker and I want to lynch objectively-scummy and extremely infuriating to read Sylencia. Sylencia received a warning for inactivity, yes? This problem may solve itself, and we can look at a different lynch today. Or at least up until he flips, if he does not come back. | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Focus people focus. We know (or at least I do, if you don't believe me go away kk) that one of Sylencia or ShaioPi is scum. We lynch one of them today. I'm hedging my bets on Sylencia. Any more of any other claims and focus on any other people is nonsense. We lynch into Syl and Shaio and come out with our hands covered in red blood. That's our focus for today. All else can wait. However unlikely it is, it's still possible for all 3 people checked to be town, is it not? If Shiao is miller, and CC is insane we could have 3 townies. Unlikely, I know, but still possible. And if OO and Syl are both millers and Shiao town it's also possible. Again, very unlikely scenario, but it worries me that we could lynch 3 people based on these claims and still have the possibility of hitting 0 scum. | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:25 Ace wrote: Wos we need to figure this scenario out. Voting for WoS is implusive. Before we do anything lets all sit down, take a deep breath, and think our way through this. Your analysis on the situation looks sound. I think the right course of action then is to flip Sylencia, and have the cops make a little circle. On April 29 2013 12:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I PROBABLY agree that there's one fake-claim in the cop claims. But I don't want that to be a given in any scenario right now. Palmar losing steam after that buildup should really earn him a policy lynch tbh but I digress. I have town read on OO. If I'm to believe CC's cop claim, I want to lynch Shiao because Sylencia is the same alignment as OO. Shiao was on the block yesterday too. Shiao could still be scum and no one is talking about him anymore. Talk about Shiao. I have a town read on OO as well, but I still think Sylencia is the better lynch. He is the keystone of the checks. I'll read over Shiao and post something on him tomorrow, he's not going to be forgotten. QUOTE]On April 29 2013 12:31 Sylencia wrote: In any case before you guys rush things let me catch up before quick lynching, since that's literally the worst thing you could do right now[/QUOTE] It won't be a quick lynch. I want to hear every read you've got. | ||
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On April 30 2013 02:23 Stutters695 wrote: Well since the thread has died down, let's try this: ShiaoPi: You have yet to adress any points against you ever, much less give a reason a single reason why we should lynch a claimed cop over you (except that he's wrong). So I'll ask you: What made you drop your suspicion on Sharrant (note: not why you voted Oats, why you never pushed Sharrant in D2)? You say Gigyas should be lynched for being non-committal, no thread presence, and just going with the flow of the thread. That's awfully similar to your 3 reads throughout the game, none of which you have voted for. Any explanations or are you just going to say more obvious stuff like "Kill stutters" to try and deflect from yourself again? You said you were already caught up. It's been about two and a quarter hours since that point. You already know Shiao is likely to have his neck in the noose come tomorrow. Either give some really, really strong analysis of Shiao OR find someone who you think is suspicious and write up a case about them OR at least weigh in on the cop situation, and what you think is the best course of action. | ||
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VE, are you around? Do you want to like... talk about stuff or something. Let's talk about someone you think isn't getting as much attention as their play deserves. | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:16 Stutters695 wrote: As I've said, I'm in the midst of finals and replacing in was really a mistake. Yet despite that, in my minute filter I've already said more than Shiao. Haven't really looked at giggles. I'm not sure how I feel about this quote. Stutters calling GiygaS "giggles" reads to me as someone who has more familiarity with the thread than Stutters would. It seems more likely a habit that would be picked up from quickly chatting with people in the scum QT to try and figure out what his best move would be. Does anyone else get that vibe, or am I reaching on this? On April 30 2013 03:19 yamato77 wrote: Wondering where hopelesswunder went I'm wondering where the conversation about Hopeless1der went. You are making me a little sad that I didn't post my alliteration about Ace's actions and accusations. | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:21 Hopeless1der wrote: Where did we learn sanity doesn't flip? I don't see it anywhere. Do you think it's scummy he's saying that, when you don't know? | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:27 Hopeless1der wrote: I got swept underneath the cop claimings and whatnot. I think the best course of action is to verify whether sanity gets flipped and then follow through on CC's claims, pending NK information. And how did you take Stutters calling GiygaS "giggles?" And if you could answer whether you think CC claiming that "sanities aren't revealed upon flips" is scummy or not. | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:29 Hopeless1der wrote: I don't know if he A) got a PM from a mod, B) got it from a QT somewhere, C) its actually in the thread and I'm blind or D)he's talking out of his ass. Its kind of important to know if the information is in fact available in case we decide to for whatever reason lynch a cop before his claim. That wasn't an answer. That was a summary of options. Do you think it is scummy that he is claiming knowledge not readily available in the thread? | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:32 TheRavensName wrote: I called him giggleS recently, and I believe that post was in response to something I said. Ah, that makes sense. Very well, then. And what is it that makes that scummy to you? I see it much more likely being a town tell. There's the possibility a mafia could make that post, but it seems much more likely to come from town in my opinion. | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:40 Hopeless1der wrote: I don't have the information. He seems to have it and I want to know how he has it. It helps to decide how I want to follow the cop claim chains or if I just want to say fuck it and scumhunt like a normal person. If you think its a towntell, enlighten me. I cannot tell what the fuck you want from me here. Assuming the information is accurate (which I haven't verified), it reads as very townie to me because it's an important part of his role. His reaction to people wanting to lynch him to verify his claims, seems to first be to check if it would actually verify what he is saying. He's so casual about the fact that it wouldn't, and seems genuinely dissapointed and frustrated by the actions in and around his claim. | ||
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On April 30 2013 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I missed out on the fun when 3 people claimed cop which I'm very sad about so I'm making up for lost time. Seriously, I've been holding off on calling you out on it just to see how far you'd continue. You're far too interested in funny variations of GiygaS' name, and absolutely not interested in doing anything constructive. I'd feel great about someone shooting you tonight. | ||
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On April 30 2013 05:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Sharrant, case in point...someone who deserves more attention than they're getting: ArtanisXP I had Hopeless in mind when I asked that, but both of them really fit the bill at this point. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I think I'ma check Ace tonight instead. What do you think guys? I think that's a terrible idea. I'm 100% sure Ace is town. Check to confirm the other claims. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:45 WaveofShadow wrote: Also I love how you're misdirecting right now and calling me names rather than address the points I'm bringing up. It's obvious that I'm referring to your specific derailing of the Shiao lynch to get Clarity, a likely modkill, lynched, not the fact that you killed one of possibly 2 scum. Killing scum is great, but it's HOW you went about it that worries me. He also has not shied away from lynching ShiaoPi as well. I doubt even the scum team would have had the knowledge that ShiaoPi was not going to get mod killed either because of his schedule (assuming he's scum). Combine that with the fact that Ace actually took the time to read my case (not something I see scum Ace doing), and then took it and ran, being the main pressure behind the lynch (when he easily could have just been the main pressure behind Shiao's lynch) makes him assuredly town in my eyes. His analysis has been spot on from what I've been able to figure out, and mostly holds up with my own. I don't think he sacrificed two KP when he could have killed one and gotten the same town cred. Especially since that would mean he bussed and soft bussed half of the remaining mafia team. | ||
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On April 30 2013 11:55 TheRavensName wrote: Publically saying what your going to do makes it so much easier for them to be fucked with.... Please point out to me the problem you have with the plan, instead of saying "the plan may have a problem". That's why we're discussing it. | ||
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On April 30 2013 12:17 Stutters695 wrote: I feel a lot better about the 3 check plan but question I'm probably missing. If one is a fake (say palmar for ease of typing) and palmar is gf doesn't that ruin the plan since palmar would show up town/same while he could easily forge checks to whatever parity seems balanced to him? Not saying it's likely but it does seem like a flaw we overlooked. I think this is mostly covered by a couple things: 1. At least for me, Palmar is town unless he's third party, I don't consider there being a great chance of him being mafia. 2. If his checks are wrong, he'll get lynched for it when he says a townie is scum, or he'll run out of people to logically be suspicious of, either via too many green checks being handed out, or his choice of checks will be rather suspicious. 3. He's not a player who I think is a viable choice for scum to try and make it to end game with, so if he's the god father he'll most likely end up getting lynched. Given that it seems likely that Shiao is another mafia due to checks (subject to change obviously) there would only be Palmar and one other scum trying to get to end game, and I think it would end up revealing both of them. Those are my reasons at any rate. | ||
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On April 30 2013 12:51 TheRavensName wrote: Fine. If you say You you and you check him. All the Mafia has to do is either have a GF or something as one of the cops, or a JOAT for the check, and you fuck with one of the checks, kill the guy not checking the one your fucking with, have the fake (If there is one) reveal what he flipped becase well.. we established he was checking the guy that flipped by this association. We now hav the guy who we don't have check clearance on to look guilty. I would still feel pretty good about jailing Palmar to see if another SK hit happens so we can find out if there is a SP, or if Palmar was a SK that got role blocked night 1. A Jack would have had to withhold his action at least once, and must have not framed anyone one night one or night two. I believe a framer is relatively unlikely since we have already flipped a vigi and a framer, and there are several possible scum roles. As for a God father, I've stated why CC is likely to be town, and that I'm coming around more to the idea of VE being town, and why Palmar that is a Godfather does not make sense, and if he's third party that will show up. None of those 3 should be RB'ed or jailed by anyone that is town. Doctors should be on them, jailors jail important town targets that are not part of that circle. | ||
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On April 30 2013 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Sharrant please to ShiaoPi? I think he's gotta be our lynch for tomorrow (unless there's something else you're asking). I'm not motivated enough right now to draw up a whole case, but his response to "you hammered a townie you never said anything about" had no trace of curiousity. He's got a red check on him (after sanities), he didn't want to lynch Clarity, and instead wanted to lynch you (who I'm now leaning town on). So far I've only seen him go after townies (with a possible exception of yourself). I don't want to make pre-flip assosciations, but some people look very bad if he's scum, and some worse looking people look much, much better. If you want more I'll see what I can do when I'm feeling like hunting through filters again. | ||
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On April 30 2013 13:38 getmoript wrote: @VE what do you think of Shiao's blue hints? Can you point these out? I see one really big hint, but it's just as possible that he's scum that doesn't know what to claim. I don't want to point it out unless it's the same thing, because his claim could prove that he's scum. Or at least heavily implicate it. | ||
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On April 30 2013 13:58 getmoript wrote: What do you make of them Sharrant? That was exactly what I was hoping you wouldn't post. I wanted him to claim before it was revealed that he had already indirectly mentioned that he couldn't be a VT, just in case he would claim VT. It would've made me the lynch a slam dunk. | ||
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On April 30 2013 14:15 getmoript wrote: I already posted in the Mason QT but I might as well point it out here. What blue role do you think that he could actually claim that we would actually believe? Vet? Not provable. Medic? Not provable. Jailer? Would've claimed/crumbed already imo. Cop? lulz. Mason? lulz. JOAT? Not likely. No reason to not claim with the cops as 1 of them has to be lying. Vigilante? No claim/crumb; no mention of grush; no explanation for not firing at 1 of a number of people. No called hit incoming. Named VT? lulz. VT/Miller? Hellz no. I see no role that he could claim that doesn't make me want to lynch him faster. Any claim at all makes him an super autolynch. Like regardless of the check. Honestly, I just want to move on to the next lynch. I think that's because he's already in auto lynch territory. I think the flavour of this setup can lead to some rather subtle bread crumbs, at least if one wants to keep them secret until they want to claim. I'm interested to hear his claim, but I honestly don't know how I would feel about any claim he could possibly make, and I don't think it's wise to speculate just yet. I'd rather wait and hear what he has to say, any speculation from other people is likely to either A) reveal their roles (while not super important since we have 3 claimed cops) B) give him possible ideas for how to escape the noose if he is scum. | ||
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On April 30 2013 14:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't see those as blue crumbs at all. I don't even know what you're referring to. If he were VT then there would always be the option that he could be a non-self aware miller. This never occurs to him despite the situation arising earlier, thus it is a situation he is not concerned about because he cannot be a non-self aware miller because he has a role. | ||
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On April 30 2013 14:27 getmoript wrote: Really? You don't consider the fact that he doesn't consider the option that he could be a miller a possibility a blue tell? It's not such that it's a blue tell, it's that it's a tell that he has a role. Either red or blue, but he is not concerned with a scenario that can only apply to VTs. | ||
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N1: Palmar jailed (seemed to be the towniest looking Vet in a lot of people's eyes) BC RB'ed N2: Ace Jailed (Just lynched scum) Either Ace also RB'ed or maybe RB on their shot (not sure if that messes with veteran orSK/SP protection in this game.) N3 ??? Jailed VE RB'ed I will be considering VE confirmed town because of this. The exception is if it was a town jailer who jailed BC, Ace was double jailed, and the jailer did not think the plan through and decided to VE because... terrible reasoning? It seems like a stretch to think of this as two town jailers. But I would wager that Palmar and Ace were both town jailed. I guess it remains to be seen if there's another roleblocked player. But a town jailer jailing VE just does not make sense to me. | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:45 yamato77 wrote: It's clear that Palmar felt BC was unreadable, as he was reluctant to call him mafia day 1 based on the fact that BC is always bad day 1. And the whole "list of cobblers" thing. Palmar's check on BC does make a lot of sense, whether or not he's lying about it. BC is a very strong analyst who had not done a particularly good job of making himself look townie, but did not look particularly scummy either. He either clears BC and knows that BC's analysis will be without bias, or he knows he's scum. | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Not-so-random thought: Ace is 3p poisoner. Explains 1 death tonight and my suspicions toward him last night. For the record I've never thought Ace is mafia; that's more or less impossible. 3p entirely possible. Why would he draw such a big target on his back then by pushing the Clarity lynch? | ||
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On May 01 2013 05:02 WaveofShadow wrote: 2 mafia vig in this clusterfuck of a game doesn't seem likely when town has no night KP. JOAT more likely but then that means what, they haven't used their power a 2nd time? Or the N1 Rbs were both mafia and we don't have a JK OR vigs? I dunno...the likeliest to me seems like 3rd party poisoner but if you are right then it's scum JOAT and 3rd party survivor. (I always assume 3rd party in games like this becuase there always fucking is) JOAT could have also used veteran, or medic at any point, or framed someone that wasn't checked.I think it's likely a JOAT and a god father left. | ||
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On May 01 2013 11:23 GiygaS wrote: Some other things I've noticed: Here Ace defends TRN, if either come up mafia, lynch the other. Can one of the vets answer my question about Ace's activity btw? Why are you cherry picking quotes? You literally had to look one more post down where I asked him to clarify that. He said he was null, not town. Just a noobie who was a null read at the time. Didn't want to spend any more time than 30 seconds looking through his filter? | ||
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He's at L-3 with my vote, I believe. ##Vote Hopeless1nder Please don't hammer him in the next 16 hours. | ||
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On May 03 2013 00:53 yamato77 wrote: Then unless there's a second scum vigilante, Ace is SP. And that's a pretty big unless, it's also excluding terrible and embarrassed townie shooting grush trying to make a big play and not claiming due to embarrassment. While much less likely in the second scenario, both situations show that lynching one of the strongest analysts is not a good idea. If the game goes on after the mafia are dead, lynch ace and win. | ||
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On May 03 2013 00:58 geript wrote: Again the best option is to have the roleblocker block elsewhere for one night. That will show us if we should kill him or not. There's no reason to kill him until proof to the otherwise. He's confirmed not scum. No, this is bad reasoning. It potentially costs us a townie for something provable without any deaths. | ||
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On May 03 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: so wait, we just confirmed Ace as 3p? gj yamato you're boss. ... Palmar, it kinda sounds like you're admitting to being mafia here. I'm much more okay with your lynch now. Only people ace being confirmed third party to is mafia. | ||
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@yamato Only scum know for certain if they had two vigis. Thus to be able to confirm him as third party one must be mafia. Also, everyone consider if they think scum jailer would jail defensively on n1 when there's no kp that they can stop with it, or whether they jail to rb a doctor or cop or jailer. | ||
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On May 03 2013 04:42 yamato77 wrote: Only if you assume the JK plays along with our plan, and mafia doesn't already know who he is. If I can figure it out, I'm sure they aren't that stupid. The only exception to the following is thus: You think Ace is mafia and bussed 2 of his teammates, and possibly a third. No, it's quite demonstrably anti-town to lynch Ace. It's been explained several times. There are three situations where you lynch Ace: One: At least one night before LyLo. Two: If the jailer dies to a night kill. Even if the jailer dies to a night kill, Ace will still be RB'ed and thus cannot kill anyone, and he can be lynched without losing any townies. Three: We have 5 dead mafia and the game has not ended. Why do you people not understand this? Ace is not in any way shape or form confirmed third party. He is the only candidate that could be third party (aside from a survivor) but lynching him is ANTI-TOWN. Lynching him now means we give another night to the mafia members in return for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Unless our jailer pops up and goes "I'm not RB'ing Ace tonight" then there's no reason to lynch him. On top of that, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE HE'S NOT THIRD PARTY. If there's a scum Vigi still left alive (which is just as likely in my books as Ace being mafia just due to set up analysis) it would explain the exact same scenario we are in. So anyone not looking at that like it's a possibility is either not using their brain, or is mafia trying to push an agenda. Whether or not he's third party, it is not good town play to lynch him. He still may be town, and either way he's one of the stronger analysts in the game. I'd rather have the counsel of a man who knows he is doomed to lose, than potentially kill a townie AND waste time not killing mafia when Ace is already a completely solved situation. TLDR; There's never a situation in which Ace kills a townie unless our jailer dies AND we spend the following day not lynching Ace. Ace is a bad lynch today. I don't want to have to argue this anymore, I'm going to go read stuff, and if anyone tries to dispute this and cannot prove even a single specific scenario where this breaks down, I will just assume you're mafia and go from there because you will be pushing anti-town agendas with the knowledge that it has no benefit to town, and only helps mafia. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:06 Palmar wrote: also, since the 3ps are compulsive, and there shouldn't have been 2 kills on night whateveritwas, isn't he almost confirmed? sharrant, explain to me why not? Ace has been RB'ed every night except for night one. There was one kill one night one, two on night two. This shows Ace cannot be serial killer. This does however open up the option of Serial Poisoner, he could have shot Grush on n1, and the poison killed him n2. However, mafia can have any number of any number of their oles, thus 2 vigis is not out of the question. We know one vigi died, but they could have a second who was able to take a shot on night 2. That is a situation that is entirely possible. It would make Ace appear as serial poisoner because he is the only person at this point capable of being third party, but it does not show that he is necessarily third party. It's entirely possible he's just unlucky. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Sharrant you're wrong, there are no scum vigis left; if there were they wasted their shots on Ace or something. There is no way in hell scum would be sitting on vigi shots this late in the game. Ace is 3p, deal with it. I agree we don't lynch him yet. Vote Hopeless and let's end this day because there doesn't seem to be anything left to say. Palmar is useless and this: is dumb. Have you not noticed Ace's considerable lack of contribution since being RBed every night? He has no desire to help town anymore because he knows he's caught. Your constant hard defenses of him in the face of overwhelming evidence troubles me, Sharrant. It seems like you've lost your way somewhere in this game. ##Vote: Hopeless1der How are you failing at reading so hard? If a scum vigi shot on night 2 it would be exactly the same as if a serial poisoner acted on night one. Please keep up. Lynching him hurts town right now. I hate playing follow the cop, it's just boring. I'm waffling on lynching Hopeless right now, going to try and figure out if I want to lynch Yamato more or less. | ||
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Hey, Yamato, do you remember how I knew you were scum the first game we played together? Can you remember exactly what it was? I'll give you a hint, I didn't notice it before, but you did exactly the same thing in this game. Your play since then has been very different, but this play was virtually identical. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:45 yamato77 wrote: You fail to realize that that post was basically a scum claim from BC. Please explain to me how it was a scum claim, convince me he's scum. But please do answer, do you remember how I caught you when we played? | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:47 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm pretty sure you fuckers hammered me. Ange's votecount says you're far from hammered. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:49 WaveofShadow wrote: How so yamato? Also wtf Sharrant you accuse me of not reading then you say this? Because I clearly explained where the vigi (if the scum have another vigi) had fired, and you were saying that the scum wouldn't have withheld their shot. It made no sense in the context of the conversation. It's completely out of place. I said it's possible scum could have fired on n2 if they had a second vigi, killing grush, and it would appear just the same as if a third party had done it. You responded with "Sharrant you're wrong, there are no scum vigis left; if there were they wasted their shots on Ace or something. There is no way in hell scum would be sitting on vigi shots this late in the game. Ace is 3p, deal with it. I agree we don't lynch him yet." | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:54 yamato77 wrote: I find it highly unlike that a mafia shot was used on Grush. As do I, but the whole reason we're having this conversation is because Palmar sait that Ace is confirmed as third party, however unlikely mafia shooting Grush is, only mafia know for certain whether Ace is third party or not. Thus it is very important. And yeah, WoS, I just felt it needed to be reminded to everyone else again. Only the first bit was about you, the rest was to everyone else. Patience and repetition. Hey, Palmar, what checks did you do, and what results did you receive? You checked BC (RB'ed), BC (guilty), VE (guilty) is there one I'm missing? | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:04 Palmar wrote: oh wait, you missed obviousone So you've had 3 guilty checks so far, yes? One on one confirmed town, one on a cop checked town, and one on BC, yes? | ||
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Ah, nevermind, I'll leave this until tomorrow. It's probably not important anyhow. | ||
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On May 03 2013 22:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Guys. Seriously, there isn't a second scum vigi because I seriously doubt scum would have the balls to save their vigi for D5, and they've already had 3 strong power roles flip including a vigi. The setup would be pretty rediculously scum favoured if there was another scum vigi when town gets none. Ace is confirmed 3rd party. Lynching him frees up our JK, which means he can protect townies rather than stop Ace from firing which means we get potentially more days and forces scum to guess who won't get protected so they can't shoot who they want to without risk. Lynch Ace I'm just going to afk now until Ace is lynched, unless someone actually brings up something I've missed which I highly doubt. How can you be so bad at reading? How many times have I explained it now. If scum have a second vigi they fired it on night 2. It would look exactly like Ace was the serial poisoner. HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS BEEN SAID? Honestly, it's so frustrating. Lynching Ace right now gives the mafia an extra kill that we only have a chance to block, this isn't including things like a jail keeper may jail a doctor if we have one which means we potentially waste a lynch AND gain nothing for it. I want to lynch Hopeless, and then if he flips red, you hang next. That should be all the mafia, then Ace can die. If Hopeless isn't mafia, I'll look into everyone else again, but you're defending him by pushing the lynch off of him, giving mafia an extra night's worth of kills. That's why I ninja voted Hopeless. If you're not mafia, Hopeless, I'm sorry. But Artanis is doing a good job of making you look like you are. | ||
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On May 03 2013 23:20 TheRavensName wrote: Also, you really think we have a jailer, a medic, 2 masons , and 3 cops? Thats crazy. No, our one protection role is wasted chillling on ace which means Mafia knows that they can kill whoever they want. Quite frankly, no, I'm not convinced WE have 2 masons. I'm convinced there ARE 2 masons. Nor am I convinced we have 3 cops, but that's discussion for tomorrow. | ||
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On May 03 2013 23:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Wait a minute. So according to this you think there's still a scum mason and vigi, and Palmar is lying therefore he must be one of those or 3p? AND you think Hopeless is mafia? Where does Ace fit into this? Your final 3 must be hopeless/palmar/ace then? I don't think this is discussion for tomorrow because clearly today isn't decided yet. I don't understand your line of thought. Because I am not convinced of something, I must assume everything is false? No, I'm working through the most likely outcomes. Yes, Palmar is a discussion for another day and I will not speak more of it. I've never disagreed with Ace being third party, I've said often that I think it's the most likely, but is otherwise solvable without his death. To consider it confirmed, you are either making a stupid assumption, or you have information that only the mafia has. I am not convinced of TRN's alignment, he could be town or scum mason. It is possible that scum have a vigi. It is possible Palmar is lying, a paranoid cop being one of the safest claims possible. I do not have a final 3. There are a few people who have done a decent job of making themselves look townie, but beyond them everyone is suspect. That's what feels so frustrating at this point. Artanis could be defending either BC or Hopeless with his actions, but I'd rather lynch Hopeless today because of BC's connection to Palmar, and I want more time before I tackle that mess. | ||
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@wos Three third party only possible with at least 2 survivors. Don't care about survivors for the most part. Only late game. Okay, let's play this game. lynching ace is sub optimal play because: Jailer cannot protect himself and you've already stated doctor is unlikely. Mafia has 1/townie chance to randomly kill the jailer. That's without taking into account that yamato claims to know who it is.if he is right (not sure who he suspects or if he's mafia) then jailer dies tonight. If they don't hit jailer, jailer has 1/player base-1 to stop the shot not with standing his ability to determine who the mafia is or guess their might kill. Likely scenario: ace is , Lynched, jailer is shot. Day completely wasted, in same spot you are now, but with one less blue, still a potential but less likely 1 less green, and just as many mafia, but less lynches. The worst case scenario of letting ace live is your plans most likely scenario. This was addressed to everyone saying lynch ace. | ||
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or two before lylo | ||
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On May 04 2013 09:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I honestly cant see gemoript as scum. Marv would have no reason to have a seperate qt with geript if they were scum. They could easily interact via a scum qt just fine. I actually read Geript as town from his filter, there's a few posts I pointed out long ago that read that way to me. But since your only reason seems to be the QT thing, I'll give you a reason to mull over, and decide again. Marv clearly wanted a backseat role this game, he barely intended to post. Basically a shadowing position. It crossed my mind that Marv was upset because he just wanted to talk one on one with Geript in their own QT, but was told by BH that he had to talk in the scum QT and he opposed having to interact/deal with more players. Marv intending to only act as a personal coach, was upset when asked to essentially be a team coach. | ||
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On May 05 2013 05:17 Bill Murray wrote: happy birthday share ant Thank you, Bill Murray! I have a question for you, are you suspicious at all of Palmar right now? (Sorry if I've missed it if you've brought it up in recent conversation.) | ||
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If they did that, they'd first come to your conclusion, and then realize that they only had probably 1/3 chance of hitting a role that would be hampered by a role block, and that they could use their own roleblock for town cred. Now it doesn't matter whether they did that or not, because just the fact that they could have done that means that you can't confirm a second person from a jailer claim. Thus I urge the jailer not to claim. | ||
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On May 05 2013 14:12 yamato77 wrote: Yes, you can, because scum wouldn't jail their own N1. Stopping a cop/other jailer is so much more important than the "town cred" from a N1 roleblock. Then how do you explain both of the people roleblocked on night one being alive? Surely if a vet would be considered confirmed town after such an action, the mafia would have had to kill him as quickly as possible, even if they were a mislynch possibility just based on the fact that the jailer could claim. | ||
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On May 05 2013 20:35 Bill Murray wrote: HMMM I KNOW WHO I WANT TO LYNCH Who would you like to lynch, Bill? | ||
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On May 05 2013 23:13 Palmar wrote: Scum can withhold their jail thing to claim a roleblock. That too. Palmar: Who did you check last night, what was the result? | ||
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On May 05 2013 23:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Probably because both of them were far from confirmed town. Both Palmar and BC were under suspicion. If they did, they did for a reason. I can't find a plausible reason. Nowhere did you or BC milk town cred out of the RB, unless I missed something. I therefore find it unlikely. Neither have been particularly close to the gallows either, and neither of them are stupid players. | ||
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On May 06 2013 01:36 Hopeless1der wrote: You'll note the stagnating day. Some might attribute that to it being the weekend. Others to general apathy. I'd partially attribute it to the fact that scum neither want to push my lynch nor suggest another. What are you guys waiting for exactly? If you think im scum hurry up and lynch me already so you can actually start playing the game again. I'd guess at 5 people who essentially showed up strictly to vote me and fucked off. They can't all be scum, so this game is very trivial right now until you start looking into these questionable actions. I need to speak to Palmar before I even think about lynching someone today. Once I have a little chat with him, I'll decide if I want you lynched today, or if there's someone more deserving. | ||
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On May 06 2013 02:12 Palmar wrote: What's up sharrant? Haven't got much time. Hey, just wanted to know who you checked last night, and what your result was. | ||
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Perfect. Thank you. | ||
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Sorry for the triple post, but one last question. Did you lie about checking Obvious One? | ||
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On May 06 2013 02:14 Palmar wrote: nope, I actually checked him. Awesome, you're the man. Bigger post incoming in a bit. | ||
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Palmar's first night he claims a role block. I have no reason not to believe this. Pretty sure this was the town roleblock from night one, he seemed quite townie (At least to me) going into night 1. Attempts to check BC. A reasonable check, BC is a veteran player, who was relatively null in the eyes of most people. Read as slightly townie to me, but I can understand seeing the opposite in him. All in all, it was a good, logical play to check BC. Palmar's second night is again taken up by a check on BC, but this time he's not roleblocked. Palmar puffs up his chest, and makes a big show of how he's going to engage BC in a duel to the death, eventually getting bored and just claiming cop with only a single check and no idea of his sanity. This does nothing but cause chaos, confusion, and is a terrible play that makes no sense. Palmar's third night is taken up by the check on OO. He gets another guilty check (we know now for sure that ObviousOne is town and not miller). VE was roleblocked when he attempted to check Palmar. He mentions at this point the possibility that he may be Paranoid or Insane. Checking OO is a poor choice however. OO is already confirmed green by Sylencia's flip and VE's parity check. What reason could a cop have for checking a confirmed green when his options for sanity are paranoid or insane. Both would yield the same result. He should have checked Ace, or someone likely to be scum. Again, his play is not logical, and he wastes his check in a terrible way. Palmar's fourth night is taken up by a check on VE. VE died that night. He checks a second confirmed innocent and gets guilty, but this time claims the only option is that he's paranoid. How does that make any sense? Unless BC flips red, or he checks someone that does flip red, it's entirely possible he's insane. In fact, he only has one unnacounted for flip on someone that seems pretty townie still. On May 02 2013 04:10 Palmar wrote: checked VE, got guilty, am paranoid He has absolutely no way to know that, evidence is entirely inconclusive, and it's entirely reasonable, if not probable, for him to be insane. This however could have been a good move as a townie unsure of his own sanity, but who had already claimed. Hope the mafia doesn't read into it, and you get one more check and hopefully find scum with it. Instead we get this: There's a bunch more, but I don't think it needs to be said. I was hoping someone else would catch this and be able to pick up on the hints, but oh well. Palmar is either playing the absolute worst town game he has ever played in his life or he's scum. And after Boardwalk I have too much respect for you to believe you would forget you were masoned, botch your claim so hard, and never realize that your sanity was still in question. Ace was right, and I should have listened to him then. Your claim is fake. ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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On May 06 2013 03:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Additional note: With the first sentence, I meant that your case is good. Also Why the fuck aren't you helping to figure this game out? Regardless of your alignment you're playing an atrocious game. Step it up. Do you think he's fake claiming cop, or do you think he is a cop? | ||
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On May 06 2013 03:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't know. But what worries me is that even if it's a fakeclaim and he's scum, why would he say he didn't check anyone? He could've said he checked Hopeless or whoever and got red. There's no risk in that and it'd 'prove' he's paranoid and that his check means nothing. I think most townies that find out they're a paranoid cop would stop checking. Palmar's mistake was thinking he'd proved himself paranoid when he was obviously not. Secondly, he's likely worried about how it would assosciate or disassosciate himself with his scum partner. He's not sure how town would react to another red check if he flips. "Oh, BC and Hopeless were both 'checked' by him? They must be town." "Oh, his last 'check' before he flipped was on Yamato? Probably trying to buy credit for his scum buddy". He can't accurately predict towns seperate personalities and thought processes, so chooses the easiest way out that won't implicate anyone if he ever flips. | ||
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On May 06 2013 03:35 Palmar wrote: Lol sharrant is correct. It's entirely possible I'm insane Man I'm bad There's a part of me that's hoping so hard that that's all this is. | ||
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On May 06 2013 03:50 Palmar wrote: Also, now that it's very possible I'm insane it's a much better idea to lynch me in a few days than now. Either scum takea the free mislynch then, and thus risks me being insane, or thwy shoot me and solve the problem for you I kind of hate this, because I'm now waffling about lynching you today. I do think you need to die unless we lynch scum the next two nights, and I'm sure you can understand that you're going to have to be lynched regardless of your alignment. The idea of leaving you alive into the night phase is a very tempting one. If nothing else, let's chat about what's left in this game so that whenever you flip we've got some more information to go on. What do you think about Artanis asking the jailer to claim? | ||
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He brings up a legitimate point, and that's what sparks your interest in him as mafia? I disagree about the double stacking, but it's perfectly possible they hit Ace on night one. Mafia players obviously had no traction on day 2, how could they swing the lynch onto him? Besides, what if the jailer is Geript? We'd lose a confirmed townie just to play the wifom game some more on night actions from day one. | ||
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On May 06 2013 04:42 yamato77 wrote: Because the jailer claim has nothing to do with who scum shot, it has to do with who they jailed. He's obviously not even paying close attention to the thread. And no, it's not a WIFOM game. You're being bad by suggesting it is. Scum jailed a townie night one, and we can figure out who that is if the town jailer claims. The fact that it's one of BC/Palmar is fucking invaluable information. Stop trying to argue against this. There's no need to bring insults into this. I completely disagree with you outright eliminating the idea that a scum claimed roleblock and they didn't use it on night one. But let's say that they 100% absolutely did jail one of Palmar or BC. It's incredibly doubtful to me that we lose that information if the jailer dies. Any decent jailer will either have left a decent breadcrum or, you know, you could read their filter and look for which one of those two was a strong town read for the jailer after their death. Or analyze the thread leading up to that point. Like I've said before, I'd say that Palmar was jailed by town because he looked pretty townie coming out of day one, whereas BC only looked a little townie. All things being equal, it's more likely BC was the one the scum jailed, or was the scum that claimed role block. And ignoring all of that still, you've said a few times you're pretty sure you know who the jailer is. Just pretend you know who it is, read their filter, and decide if it matches up with one of those two being jailed on night one, and which one it matches up with. You've even got the later roleblocks of Ace to give you clues as to who the first town role block was. Contribute to what's going on instead of just hounding on our jail keeper to give up his life to satisfy your curiousity. I just don't follow on why you'd want lynch to Ace to free up the role blocker to then have the role blocker kill himself? | ||
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On May 06 2013 05:01 getmoript wrote: Sharrant, what do you think of my analysis of Ace's play. Do you find it completely consistent with BC/WoS scum team? It's certainly believeable. My biggest issue is that I believed that ShiaoPi wasn't scum after Clarity flipped, and I could see the same thing from Ace's perspective. I'll read more in his filter, and see if there's anything I can gleam from it. I like that you made the case, if you're sure about it, I want to see you make it stick. Analyze BC and WoS and let me know what you come up with. I'm not particularly looking at BC right now, but WoS certainly has my attention. | ||
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On May 06 2013 09:56 GiygaS wrote: God damnit, looking through on kush (who I thought was uber disinterested mafia) makes me suspect yamato which would invalidate my read on Hopeless! This is confusing  This is the post that really got me (kush pointed this out before me): Soft defense on the two scum that were up for lynching makes yamato look really bad. This case was rejected by Ace (who was probably pushing mafia agenda at this point to avoid being the last non-town left), but advocated by BC and praised by VE. This post is then ignored for the rest of the game. I sort of want to go through Yamato's filter now and see what's up, but at the very least I'm unvoting from Hopeless until I figure this out. I think the most damning thing about this, is actually how he defends ShiaoPi. Look at ShiaoPi's filter, especially when he hammered. Does that in any way speak to you of a guy who is too caught up in the game "emotionally"? I'm quite happy with a Yamato lynch. Make sure you leave us all your reads on the way out. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:18 yamato77 wrote: Also, I'm beginning to rethink my townread of Sharrant. That vote is scummy as fuck. Please show me exactly where ShiaoPi was overcome with excitement in his filter. Show me where there's even a hint of emotion. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:22 kushm4sta wrote: dont be dumb. sharrant is hella town. Also that quote from yamato soft defending shit.. yeah that looks bad but I think it was just a coincidence of retardation. I mean it's almost such an obvious soft defense of scum that scum wouldn't even do it like that. Know what I mean? too scummy to be scum type thing. I absolutely don't believe in too scummy to be scum, especially when the premise is based on something that isn't there. There is no excitement in ShiaoPi's play, especially not near the hammer. His hammer sounds like someone who is bored out of his head. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:29 yamato77 wrote: All I'm gaining from this game is that if you troll day one, you'll never live it down. 20 pages of filter and more analysis of this game than all of you, yet I'm still getting called mafia. It might also have to do with the fact that of the three lynches you pushed on day 1/2, 2 flipped town. Your first list of scum is 3 town, 1 unflipped and 1 3rd party, and that you have a soft defense of two scum thrown in for good measure. I'll grant you that there's some redeeming qualities in your filter, but there's a reason you're going to keep coming up as a lynch prospect in this game. We're not lynching BC today, and we're not lynching Palmar. I want both of them alive for at least another night. There's no way they're both scum, so let's find the one, possibly two that are outside of them. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:44 WaveofShadow wrote: We're not? The vote count would appear to say otherwise currently. I doubt you're getting yamato lynched today; I'm certainly not voting for him. Is he honestly at L-2 right now? And yes, we are not lynching BC today. If I have to stop the wagon on him, I will. And I will not be happy about it. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Uh...if you are saying that you have a way to do so, then you probably should if you don't want him lynched....though I'm thinking maybe you already did. He's at L-2, as long as the rest of the people that come into the thread think about things, there's no reason to do anything to defend him right now. I'll try something different here. Yamato: I am telling you that your own analysis will tell you, in the end, that BC is not scum if you stick to what you've said. Now talk to me about two people that would be scum if BC were as good as confirmed town. | ||
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On May 01 2013 00:03 iamperfection wrote: ~~~ Vote Count ~~~ ShiaoPi (9): Ace, VisceraEyes, getmoript, Palmar, Bill Murray, BloodyC0bbler, Hopeless1der, Sharrant, GiygaS stutters(1): ShiaoPi Palmar(1): TheRavensName Remember, this Day ends when a majority is reached. As soon as a majority is reached, please stop posting until the Night Post has been posted. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted! The voting thread can be found here: (link) Please keep in mind that with 18 alive it now only takes 10 votes to lynch! If there are any mistakes in the vote count, please inform us. This makes me kinda want to lynch Stutters more than before. On the day ShiaoPi was going to die he voted Stutters. ShiaoPi was completely unafraid to assosciate with his teammates, this strikes me as an attempt at distancing them post flip. | ||
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On May 06 2013 20:19 Palmar wrote: who has TRN been masoning these last few days. This dapper gentleman right here. I'll read the exchange between you and BC shortly. @BM What game are you thinking of where we were scum together? @Yamato Palmar can live for a day or two, I could lynch Hopeless today. | ||
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I liked the exchange between you and BC over the night; I think the reason you're finding his contributions suspicious is because of a difference in play styles. I think BC just doesn't like to write things out, he said as much earlier in the game. You're both under the pressure of a lynch, so you go out of your way to back everything up with quotes and try to make it look good. He seems to be relying on his cred as a veteran, and the fact that when he flips people will know he's not lying about what he's written. I want both of you alive for at least a cycle. I'm happy to lynch into the little list you guys came up with, it matches up for the most part with my thoughts with a few key differences, but they're fairly subjective I think. There's a few divergent scenarios, but I think the most basic formula for our chain of lynches is such: Dammit. I made beautiful tree diagrams but the TL site doesn't support that kind of formatting. I'll write it out as direct chains then. Hopeless(town)->Yamato(town)->Palmar->BC Hopeless(town)->Yamato(scum)->(unsure, this chain I'm least sure if I'd lynch another person before Palmar/BC) Hopeless(scum)->giygas(scum)->gg Hopeless(scum)->giygas(town)->unsure(town)->Palmar->BC Just a basic idea of what I think we should do, I'm open for discussion on it, and it would obviously be reevaluated after the nks. | ||
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On May 06 2013 23:47 TheRavensName wrote: Quick question about this chain. Why is Hopeless first if your vote is on Yamato? I was in a rush to get ready. On May 07 2013 00:03 WaveofShadow wrote: I remember thinking right before I went to bed last night that I had the game solved but now I can't remember why. Fuck. I do know one thing: there are at least a couple people here sitting on vital information right now and while I partially know what's going on, I don't know if I know the whole story, so I won't say much other than personally I feel it's probably best if the people sitting on info reveal said info---it will really make the game a whole lot easier. Not to say we can't win without it, I just don't personally see the reason it's being held back. Now with that being said I'll reveal what I know for sure. TRN masoned me the night before. We are not masoned currently. I have absolutely no reason to believe he is scum, though I am unsure as to what he thinks of me and am not quite sure why he attempted to grill me before. People no loner discussing me lol. I was extremely active up until 2 days ago and people stopped discussing me LONG before that if you'd read. I was frustrated for reasons I'm not necessarily comfortable divulging, however there are things that have led me to believe that Palmar is scum. I am curious as to what leaving im alive actually accomplishes, and why Sharrant no longer appears to want to lynch him. I'm not sure where you get that I no longer want to lynch him. You'll notice that every scenario I posted that doesn't end in us killing scum in the next 2 lynches then goes on to lynching him, and if we kill scum in one of those two lynches, it only moves lynching Palmar back by one lynch. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that instead of just not reading the thread, you meant that it appears I no longer want to lynch him today. And yes, that is correct. If he's not scum, then scum now know that there's a very real possibility that he is an insane detective and will most likely be forced to shoot him. If he is scum, we've still got another person who is much less obvious to lynch than him and I'd rather go after them. If he's still around after two night cycles, and we haven't lynched a scum, then it's time to lynch Palmar. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Yamato | ||
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Yamato, that puts you at L-2 | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:25 yamato77 wrote: One more vote and I lose this game for town. You guys wanna lose? Let's do this. When you're going to act like this, you're only doing one of two things: A) Proving you're scum B) Convincing the rest of town you need to be lynched because even if you're a townie you'll sabotage the game. You couldn't make me happier with this lynch if you tried. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:32 yamato77 wrote: Hopeless and Palmar Their combined filter is smaller than mine, but I'm being lynched over the both of them. Fantastic. If you gave us Palmar, if you analyzed him so hard, how could you have never realized that his claim was wrong? Not once did you even hint that, if he is a cop, his sanity was not confirmed as what he said it was. I've been sitting on that since the moment he checked OO, I was sure it was how it would go down, and I haven't even been particularly interested in Palmar aside from that point. | ||
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Yamato, if either Hopeless or Palmar flips town, who do you think is next in line in scumminess? | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote: Maybe Artanis, maybe TRN. Honestly, all of those reads I'm apparently getting lynched over are real. Most of you seem town. I'm pretty convinced Palmar and Hopeless are mafia. I had similar thoughts about TRN potentially being mafia mason prior to being masoned with him. I have him as a very strong town read at this point. Artanis is someone I'm not particularly comfortable with, I can understand you on this one. What are your thoughts on GiygaS, and Stutters? I know you wrote little blurbs about them, I don't need much, just something a little more specific. Can you point me to a post or two you don't think scum stutters would have been able to make, or wouldn't thought of making. Can you point out a few things in GiygaS' filter that cemented the read as try hard townie for you? | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:50 getmoript wrote: If palmar is town why didn't he realize his sanity wasn't confirmed? Don't you worry, that hasn't been forgotten. I want him alive for a bit longer, and then either he'll be proven town, or we'll all realize he needs to be lynched, or I'll post all the other stuff and get him lynched. | ||
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I'm glad to see such zeal from you on this case, but he's going to die. This should be the time to ask him questions that you think you would help lead you to the remaining mafia (if he flips scum) or might shed light on other players (town). Now I severely doubt the last situation holds any weight for you, but the first certainly should. | ||
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On May 08 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: The two remaining scum are TRN and Palmar I have used deductive reasoning to come to this conclusion GiygaS, kush, and I were all voting shiao when the VE wagon was deterred... and I was attacking Kush for bandwagonning... Tube voted Stutters, trying to get him lynched, that same day, so I'm not looking to lynch Stutters Artanis has been very helpful, so I want to keep him around BC + Yamato argument felt like town on town Sharrant I'm a little on the fence on, but since I just played with him, and we were both scum... pretty sure he isn't. weak read. TRN + Palmar likely scumpair imo I'm super tired so I'm only making this one post right now. Doubtful TRN is scum. And seriously, this is the second time you've brought this up which is confusing. I have never played scum on Team Liquid. We played Boardwalk, you were scum, I was town. Palmar, you're checking WoS tonight, unless you can convince me that you have someone 100% pegged as scum, even then WoS is probably a better check. | ||
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