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zarepath
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On March 16 2013 16:46 Coagulation wrote: im town thank god In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. On March 16 2013 16:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi I'm town yadda yadda. BH you wanna try and get a read on me before I go to bed? VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. On March 16 2013 17:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Maybe next time sport. Tell me, what do you make of geript and his RNG shenanigans? It's said that he RNG'd before the game started and that rather than using the name he drew, he RNG'd AGAIN when the game started! How exciting is that?! Now, as we know, scum aren't likely to put their scumbuddy up for lynch so easily, so the supposition is that geript and zarepath are scumbuddies, and geript didn't want to put his buddy up for lynch! What do you say to THAT?! Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome  | ||
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zarepath
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Now that I think about it, VE's talk about tarot cards seems especially useless. Another addendum to Coagulation's instant role claim : the very first thing he did after that was apply to the SAST, which is going to look pro-town without actually being pro-town. An addendum to my problems with the SAST: I am not certain as to whether or not VE seriously thought people would like his SAST idea. And one final thought: sciberbia was quick to point out that VE's tarot cards and Peashooter's speculation aren't that scummy (but I disagree and say they are more scummy than anything else so far, btw), and VE makes a good point in response: On March 16 2013 18:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Interesting. Out of everyone who has posted, you are by far the most verbose. I expect you will be equally verbose when describing things you DO find scummy. So in the end, I currently have my eyes on Coagulation, Peashooter, VE, and sciberbia. I will take a more serious look at geript later. And with those reactions, I am now off for the afternoon to help somebody move. | ||
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On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power? And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game: BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds. Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX. I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out. Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused. This opening post seems kind of scummy to me. It begins with setup speculation that seems based in ignorance and not in a desire to hunt scum, continues to say that two players are consistent with their meta and he's not sure if he likes that or not, he decides he doesn't like SAST but then turns that into speculation as to a 3rd party wincon (????). Also notice the line thrown in the middle: I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out. It's an excuse for not hunting scum while saying to trust him, he's hunting scum. I would like to see more input from WoS on who he is suspicious of, and why. | ||
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zarepath
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On March 17 2013 04:50 Coagulation wrote: peashooter would be my best bet for a scum lynch at this point. I hardly ever have good reads day 1. This quote suggests you don't actually think he's scum: On March 17 2013 04:30 Coagulation wrote: You want me to fabricate shit? cause if im gonna make shit up to get someone lynched it might as well be peashooter since hes kind of an ass. So, why is he scum other than the fact he voted for you? Because that's not a reason, at least not one that I've seen articulated well from you. | ||
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zarepath
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On March 17 2013 06:19 geript wrote: First off, I dislike the fact that you mix up my tarot card thoughts and place them on VE. The thing that doesn't make sense to me whatsoever is how this post flows. I'm not seeing the jump in logic between either the setup speculation being scummy Or how VE's post leads directly from that. It's a subtle transition from X+Y are scummy into it's useless. Then yoy transfer into: I'm not getting the logic jump here either. There isn't any real reason listed. There's no reason to expect to be able to jump straight to fucking without a little foreplay. How do you explain this Zare? Why make a nothing post? I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1. I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. | ||
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On March 17 2013 08:01 geript wrote: So then what did you think of his points against me? You put me on null. He put me on scum. Besides, if you liked his points then why would you be: The only thing I'm seeing from you is: null here, null there, scum for a bad reason here, scum for a bad reason there, null, null. Why so lazy and unconcerned? It's a step above asking people to pick between two large numbers and then not having a read on literally anyone thus far. I made my own decision about you and I mentioned it earlier; nothing VE said changed my mind or informed that opinion. I liked his point on sciberbia, but only because I agreed with the thought on sciberbia, not because I no longer thought anything else he'd done was suspicious. | ||
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zarepath
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On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote: You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly? ##Vote: DarthPunk At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. | ||
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On March 17 2013 09:05 cosmicomics wrote: Laying down votes is alignment null, and him actually trying to push a lynch or not doesn't matter. He misinterpreted geript as still doing his RNG stuff when it was clear he wasn't. How is misinterpreting, ie, being wrong, a scumtell? What's the implication there? | ||
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zarepath
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It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. | ||
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Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum. The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive. I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him. I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk. ##Vote: DarthPunk | ||
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zarepath
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On March 16 2013 23:43 GreYMisT wrote: I agree with this look at Zarepath. It appears to me that he is trying to find things to say. GreYMist, whatever happened to this? You haven't mentioned me once since. | ||
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Unvote: DarthPunk Vote: GreYMisT | ||
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 I don't know what to tell you about tone. I've honestly felt pretty uncertain on Day 1 of every game I play, but I think that I have possibly been a little more scared off because of the large player pool (the biggest game I've been in was 15 players, I think). Picking particular candidates out of a pool of so many on Day 1 with so little info when I can barely remember who is who has been difficult, especially considering my inability to participate all weekend. To be fair, I think you can throw out my mafia game because it was from so long ago and I like to think that I would play it very differently now. | ||
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zarepath
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This is a good point. It wasn't a soft defense so much as something that needed to be considered and answered if you were to make a case on him. He'd been on my radar at the time. Tonight, when I started trying to catch up, I saw DP's defenses which seemed really OMGUSy and a total lack of pro-town argument (other than prevent his own mislynch), and figured it was a good vote -- for some reaosn I thought the lynch deadline was going to be quite soon, and was actually worried that I'd already missed it when I came into the thread and just tried to get a vote down asaply. Now I'm on greymist because I think it's coming down between me and him, and I don't like his pattern of seeding suspicion onto players and then acting unsure, or letting others do the work. | ||
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On March 16 2013 16:22 ThePeashooter wrote: I have no idea how the quoting got messed up, but Devil and Nightmare should both be red. I imagine Devil would be some type of Godfather-ish role. I am re-reading through the thread right now, but this makes me think that TPS is town. | ||
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On March 18 2013 23:35 WaveofShadow wrote: What? Why? Zare you REALLY have to start giving more than that to alleviate suspicion. I don't see how mis-speculating on roles is anything but null. I don't think scum would speculate wrong on purpose on something as dumb and useless as that. To Vivax, I have several issues with your argument. First of all, I find it pretty dumb to be 100% confident of three people all being on a scum team; that's association before flip. Secondly, your only real problem with my statement is that you say I am clearly a scum defending a scum player, which requires both of us to be scum for your argument to work on any level, and And thirdly, you're right, if I thought I had nothing to add, I wouldn't do it -- and I didn't, until people called me out to specifically comment on both wagons. I gave my impressions while acknowledging that others have felt the same way, and they're not unique thoughts. I think that if you are suspicious of a group of three players, you should look at them individually and not based on their interactions with each other until one of them flip. And i especially don't see why you would want to lynch me if you're confident that all three are scum, since the entirety of your argument against me assumes that GK is scum, and you have made no argument as to why I am scum based off of my own actions. (Note that others have, but you haven't.) I am going back to re-reading the thread now. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote: 454471 Very pro-town here On March 16 2013 23:38 Hopeless1der wrote: The use of anecdotal evidence to push a non-existent policy is pretty scummy here. Unless lynching townclaims has become a thing. Is this what the kenpachi rule is for, or is that only for kenpachi? So uh, how about the part where he directly acknowledges that VE always opens up with a "hai I'm town" to some degree, and in spite of this, the townclaim is scummy? It should be read as null, every time, unless there's some meta "tone" read that I can't pick up on. Overall, I read through this post and zarepath keeps playing devil's advocate with himself and answering his own questions. There is no mindset of wanting to solve the game to me. I think he's scum. I think that he assumes a LOT out of my post, and twists my words and tone quite a bit. I'm aware that this piece of evidence borders on OMGUS, but I objectively think that it's odd he jumps on my first post, but not other first posts that seem much more headscratchworthy. What bugs me is that he is certain I am scum because I am uncertain. I think the only certain people that early on Day 1 are scum. On March 18 2013 01:38 Hopeless1der wrote: I dun got sniped =\ Zarepath I'm voting to lynch zarepath as supported by DYH and sciberbia , in addition to my initial reaction to zare. There's enough in the thread on him without me rehashing it. ##Vote: Zarepath GK BH's meta argument about GK being town just doesnt do it for me. GK has done some scummy shit, like tearing into the SAST idea with malicious intent. Generally disruptive tactic, especially as it doesn't lead to VE being scum or town or anything. There is also his change in stance from sandroba is being reasonable in his assessment (@Ryu at the end) to sandroba lurks like a bawse as scum, so i'll vote him for being lurkerish In that last read post, he's wishy washy on TPS, who seems to have a decent mob following his lynch, and who I also wouldn't mind seeing flip. TPS Mostly, I dislike TPS' tunnel into coagulation and assuming anti-town = scum, when multiple people can vouch for the fact that coag is just like this when he plays. If TPS is in fact Yamato he should know this. Again, see Fruity Mafia If its not yamato, then TPS is still refusing to consider an established meta that suggests his initial reasons for calling coag are wrong. There is some merit in his followup, but if coag had reacted with less indignation, I feel he'd have nothing to continue his tunnel with. Also, quoting BH 100 times and then neglecting to want to lynch him is faking the rage to me. Would lynch. This is his biggest post, and he spends much more time on the people he's NOT voting for (but others are talking about), and mentioning that he wouldn't mind seeing them flip -- but his entire case on the person he IS voting for, zarepath, is "supported by X and Y." Why isn't it supported by arguments? Why is this constructed in terms of people supporting his read, and not on his read being confirmed by specific actions of mine? On March 18 2013 02:03 Hopeless1der wrote: I personally think you are wrong about cosmic. Or were you specifically asking the three you noted? He doesn't say why he thinks he's wrong. Just giving a town read without backing it up, and then doesn't go into the other two at all. On March 18 2013 02:22 Hopeless1der wrote: The thread is all "sandroba lurk = scum". GreYMisT is all "not enough to lynch, what else u got?". This isn't an argument, this is pitting GreyMist against "the thread." He's not thinking in terms of arguments; he's thinking in terms of The Thread. On March 18 2013 03:08 Hopeless1der wrote: But why? for "scumslip"? what else you got bro? Also, any thoughts on zarepath? He wants more on zarepath without offering anything else on zarepath. He cuts down an argument but doesn't break it apart or address it rationally; that's a little more null, though. On March 18 2013 03:53 Hopeless1der wrote: On the basis of the failed pressure vote, I don't find sufficient reason to call him scum. However, people need to learn that if you aren't willing to follow through, pressure voting is the same as typing "fuck you too" and calling it a day. On the basis of OMGUS'ing cosmic, DP will do that as either alignment. I also missed where he "goes after lurkers" as you accuse him of. He goes after geript for RNG bullshit and cosmic for "misinterpretations" His lack of real scum reads to date is the only thing that really concerns me. His argument with BH is that he found the reasons for defending GK wrong. Even if he town-read GK, I don't think this is a scummy or contradictory action. He also didn't really defend GK, he primarily wanted to defer lynching him because GK can be useful and DP says he can figure GK out. I'm not inclined to vote DP today. Hopeless has spent more energy on why people aren't scum than why they are. DP isn't scum, cosmic isn't scum, Vivax absolutely didn't make a slip, by the way, what do you think about zarepath? Then see this: On March 18 2013 04:17 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay I'm seeing what's up with DP now. tbh I still want to lynch Zarepath, but I can consolidate onto DP if need be. To be fair he was modkilled after this, but it's odd how he's so incredibly consistent on his zarepath read, despite not adding to it or expanding upon it at all except for that one post at the beginning, but very inconsistent on his town read of DP -- based upon the need for consolidation, not upon the likeliness of scumminess. In the end I think the arc of his reads Day 1 was strange, and the framing of his arguments for the person he was most certain of voting for were very strange. I think that Hopeless1der is scum, and it's unfortunate that Ace, the person who literally wrote the book on playing TL scum, is replacing him. | ||
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On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote: Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. If by "dealt with" you mean where he said "I assumed he was trying to figure out if I was a smurf so I ignored it?" I'm not satisfied with that answer. If he can simply say "I'm not Yamato" then town stops thinking they share a QT. | ||
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Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument. Back to work now. | ||
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zarepath
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On March 19 2013 09:06 Vivax wrote: What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though? Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse. | ||
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On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote: Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him. First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more. | ||
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His final vote/read that he actually sticks to is one he only makes after sciberbia specifically asks him what he thinks about GM and GK, and he ends up picking GM, and his first reason why is "as I stated earlier in the thread;" ie, I was totally thinking he was scum the whole time even while I was voting for GK, the guy I no longer thing is scum. BTW, he really likes Ryu's case on him, and uses that in his argument. Then you have the post that Trance brought up. It looks a lot like he spent most of D1 criticizing arguments and not actually going after scum, and when he finally had to pick, he was apologetic for it and seems to be prepping himself for a town flip. I read him as scum until he provides some cases or reads, because so far he has only suspected two people, one of which he unvoted and the other one he was almost apologetic about voting for. | ||
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I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum. | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Except that GM DID look scummy, and I have yet to read into GK and see what the thoughts are regarding him. How exactly did he have no suspects of his own? He literally only voted for GM when sciberbia asked him what he thought about GM, at whcih point he was like "Oh, the things that I said at the beginning of the game, that's why he's scum, also what Ryu said. Vote:GM." Then later he says "Maybe GM is town but oh well he's playing so poorly, I don't have time to switch." | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:29 VisceraEyes wrote: This is the bullshit I'm talking about. The last game I saw you in as town there was like NO QUESTION that you were town. In this game, you snipe at people and appear to be trying to pick fights with people. It's like....scummy. And I know you're better than that as scum, so I'm left wondering what the fuck is going on. The last game that I played with Mocsta, he was scum and this was exactly how he started his play -- calling anything remotely scummy very scummy in quick, dramatic one-liners. When he was town he actively tried to promote discussion with thoughtful questions for literally everybody, and he had huge cases that I hated because they took forever to get to their good points, but clearly took a long time to make. I am waiting for more posts like that to have a town read on Mocsta. | ||
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I am still going through filters for a full list of reads. At first I consider BH's masoning of me to be really scummy but after reading the other convos he seems legit, so I'll be looking elsewhere. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:24 VisceraEyes wrote: No my role saved me. I'm Vet. What was the name of your role? | ||
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On March 19 2013 22:15 TranceStorm wrote: My opinion on DoYouHas has retracted somewhat. I don't think he's been 'attaching himself to arguments' as I had said earlier anymore. Which post of his changed your mind? | ||
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TOWN Vivax - Too much effort into too awful a case. Puts way too much attention onto himself. DarthPunk - Too confident to not be town, and when under pressure was still confident. Pretty clean and open with what he thinks about whom. geript - One of few players who think I’m scum who have actually looked at my filters of previous games, ie, done work for their read. Glurio - Checks metas, bothered to defend me when thread sentiment was against me, unique and genuine look at WoS beginning of Night 1. Not a lot of content yet but all his content seems pretty pro-town. DoYouHas - Of all the people going after me, he is the only one to pull up my meta and look at each of the filters for evidence. He’s been the one willing to do the most work for a zarepath lynch when it could be very easy to just bandwagon onto it. Coagulation - Doesn't contribute a lot, but his thought process is clearly pro-town sciberbia - Consistent with his reads, willing to look at and filter-dive on other cases, is thinking forward-motion NULL kenpachi - I don’t see him being really productive in general, just reacts to The Thread and not actively going after particular reads. WoS - opening post seemed pretty scummy, but spent effort at least discussing the popular reads, going into my meta, etc. Potential scum slip puts him back in null territory to me Wade Fell (BH) - I had a scum read on him until I read his other QTs, which showed consistency with his thread decisions that I had questioned. I think it’s safe to let him continue masoning -- if he’s scum, he’ll be in trouble trying to keep it up now that he has to answer for each person he masons, and if town, well, it can’t hurt. I thought it was odd that he picked me, one of the townies with the least amount of town cred, to help him lynch his top scum read. But oh well. Hopeless1der - He read me as scum real quick, didn’t push it at all, came back to agree with others who picked up what he dropped off, and spent the rest of Day 1 criticizing other people’s reads and arguments. I thought that was a scum tell, but I can see how that’s null on a second look and after others have criticized my case. What I am wondering now has more to do with Ace, namely: why hasn’t he shot last night? And why wasn’t he concerned about being shot last night? There was no night post for him with a list of reads. Mocsta and Keirathi have been talking about people, but Ace is talking more about arguments. I am still suspicious of Hopeless/Ace but I am not as certain of their scumminess; I want to see what Ace contributes when he is actually in the swing of things. cosmicomics - votes for DP only after layabout literally asks him what he thinks about him. First time he mentions him, and then votes for him. But his other reads are only to say he doesn’t think people are scum, and his switch onto GM seems somewhat out-of-the-blue. Low contributor and I need to see more. goodkarma - I disliked how he began the game, but he hasn’t really shied from the limelight. BH is a lot more confident about him than I am, but his general activity is enough to keep him from being as strong a scum read as my actual scum reads. VisceraEyes - His tone has seemed fairly off, but he has poked and prodded in the right directions within his big filter. I don’t have a solid read on him yet but no reason to think he’s scum. Vet claim possibly legit, but I’ma wait until N2 results to solidify this read. sandroba - Was so certain of his first town reads, which seemed impossible. Mocsta is being annoying, and the last time he was annoying like this in a game with me he was scum. I am very curious as to his reads and how he pushes them today. RyuSuzaku - First post was a sketchy association case that didn’t seem to have much heart, just lots of suspicion; and wanted GM dead. Everything post GM’s lynch was him justifying his vote for him, no forward motion -- except for his final post, where he says VE and Test are his new suspects, both of which were fairly new/unique reads. I will wait to see how he pushes those reads and reacts to other cases today. TPS - I’m not convinced of BH's argument against him. TPS seems assertive and active, but he doesn't scream town to me, either. NULL-SCUM TestSubject - Said very little, and only about people everyone else was already talking about. layabout - Was all about DP and WoS, mostly DP, but in the end switched from DP to me without having ever said anything about me all game. Then later, this: On March 19 2013 02:19 layabout wrote: vivax i really like your case on zarepath, particularly the way he calls greymist scum for not pushing him. Isn't that more or less what prom did last game? This is a softball toss for somebody else to be like “U R RIGHT HE IS SCUM.” SCUM TranceStorm On March 18 2013 00:38 TranceStorm wrote: I have no reservations on a zarepath lynch. I have nothing to contribute on him beyond what others have already said. I think that DoYouHas is a stronger candidate however. This is all pending an explanation of the Vivax 'scumslip' though. That was his justification. He also built no real case on DoYouHas despite going after him, possibly the most pro-town-looking player. Mr. Wiggles Seems deathly afraid of posting reads. His only contributions have been to disagree with other people’s scum reads or arguments. A very scummy and “helpful” “Will you two cut it out? It’s just a game” in his latest post. His GM vote came from being ASKED about him, but his justifrication is filled with “per my earlier post” and “as I stated earlier,” as if he is more concerned with looking like he’s always been for a GM lynch than he is actually justifying the GM lynch. He said he didn’t want to post reads but I see no reason why not? | ||
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I'm voting to lynch Mr. Wiggles until he gives us some reads. The only two scum reads he's presented ever are goodkarma and GreyMist, and I want an update. | ||
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On March 19 2013 23:44 Vivax wrote: Why do you post a list of all your reads when your only argument should be to get scum lynched if you are town. Bring the arguments against Wiggles and TranceStorm then. Bring other reads when you use them for association or to stop pressure on townreads. You also forgot to include previous arguments you used to say GK played scummy in your list, why do you forget your own arguments for saying people might be scum and instead say he's just scummy for activity now? Others are far less active. 1. Because there's a chance I'm lynched today, and I started this reads post for a N1 post but didn't have time to finish it. Also: I don't see why it's unhelpful. 2. What do you think about Wiggles and TranceStorm? I'll be looking into them more deeply as the day goes, but I think there's a good enough amount to suspect and pressure them right now already -- Wiggles refuses to give reads, and Trance did a weird dance for yesterday's lynch. Now Trance still thinks that Wiggles is "super scummy" but has actually voted instead for TPS based off of someone else's case. His opening post is a whole lot of nothing, and so are his next few posts. 3. If you're talking about the quote I pulled with goodkarma basically giving a resume of how townie he's been, yes, that's still a strike against him in my book. But his interaction with BH in the QT has evened my read out to Null. | ||
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On March 20 2013 00:04 TranceStorm wrote: I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be. I guess that's true; you didn't. It just looked a lot like "Sheep for hire! Any case will do!" | ||
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So it could just be BH and GK scum, but it seems like a pretty bad claim. | ||
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On March 20 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Hai I here guise. Zare this is more like it. I expect more of this from you during the day. Who is your top scumread of all of those you have listed? Also with regards to the BH 'scumslip,' Vivax, there is something I remember in the logs that bothered me a little, I have to go re-read and find it. I didn't originally bring it up because I was leaning town on BH but his tunneling of TPS (who is leaning town for me) and the recent evidence against him (waiting on yours too, geript) makes me want to go find it again. Mr. Wiggles. He refuses to present reads, and hasn't had a read on anyone since the GM flip. | ||
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Blazinghand 03-19-2013 03:31 AM ET (US) I'm heading to bed and will be back in thread in ~9-10 hours. So he should be around sometime soon to answer for this. I'll post our own chat logs if it becomes relevant, but so far there really hasn't been much said since he's been asleep since I got the QT link. | ||
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I just found it odd he didn't say it when the other blue claim did, and can't think of how revealing it would hurt town. | ||
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Yes, now with my knowledge of the name of VE's role, I shall be able to ascertain what his role is! I am so diabolical. I just don't understand how it hurts town to claim the name, and I CAN understand a mafia claimed vet but not wanting to say the role because they're worried somebody else has that name, especially in a game where we don't know exactly which role corresponds to which name. I don't suspect VE of that, but I don't see any reason why he shouldn't remove all potential suspicion alotgether and just claim the name, yo. | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. There is nothing wrong with defending town reads who are potential lynch candidates. To say that "all he's done" is defend goodkarma may be true, but this point doesn't take into full consideration the context of the action. Many people were discussing goodkarma and deciding whether he should be the lynch or not, he himself included. There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. Not only that, but a glance at Wade Fell's filter shows his interaction with TestSubject893 and ThePeashooter, which VisceraEyes totally ignores, even though earlier on in the day he acknowledges' one of Wade Fell's posts on ThePeashooter. You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. Additionally you can see in this post that VisceraEyes drops his initial case on goodkarma. The vote switch indicates that whatever point Wade Fell brought up was strong enough to pursue than his original case on goodkarma. Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. Let's explore that next. Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. Where in this post does VisceraEyes consider goodkarma as scum? He doesn't. Let me hash that out again. In the starting sections of my post I demonstrated that VisceraEyes considered goodkarma scum. Additionally he disparaged Wade Fell's play in defending goodkarma (another contradiction), but now he is trying to push Wade Fell as scum on the basis that he is masoning goodkarma, which is one of his town reads? How is Wade Fell masoning goodkarma supporting evidence that Wade Fell is a scum mason attempting to manipulate townies? It isn't. VisceraEyes is getting muddled up in his pile of lies. Either you think goodkarma is town and that Wade Fell's mason choice was to manipulate him, or you think goodkarma is scum and that Wade Fell fake masoned a scum partner. What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. So VisceraEyes admits himself that his case seems weak without the mason logs. However, once Wade Fell releases the mason logs, he doesn't talk about the content at all! If the strongest body of evidence comes from the mason logs, and they were released, wouldn't you go in and use that as evidence to convince people that Wade Fell is scum? Well VisceraEyes doesn't, because there is nothing that alignment telling in there. He himself says Wade Fell doesn't push his ideas in the QT but he himself presents very flimsy contributions himself. Where is his push of DarthPunk? He called him scummy all D1, left his vote on DarthPunk and checked out, and has picked up some new targets. No more comments on DarthPunk. No more comments on goodkarma. Just hopping along wagons when he can, and dropping them without explanation. His original case on DarthPunk was very shoddy. Additionally is the nonsense about him taking a hit. The majority of your case is actually just a defense of Wade Fell (BH). And most of your actual case on HIM, at the end, seems like confirmation bias/generalization. I'll watch him but I find it odd how vehemently you defend BH here. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:01 WaveofShadow wrote: If you don't suspect VE of that, does that mean you don't suspect BH either since he claimed the role name? I don't suspect him of fake-claiming, if that's what you mean, because I'm in a QT with him. He could be faking the color of his role, but that's not what I'm talking about. If we force everyone who blue-claims to state the name of their role, we can essentially shut down all fake roleclaims from scum because there will either be someone with the power they're claiming (a DT or medic or vet or what have you), or someone who has the name that they're claiming, but it goes to a different power. I think your speculation as to a power involving the names of roles is coming more from your distrust of me than it is from any logical perspective. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:05 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are ignoring the obvious explanation for the supposed slip you are trying to nail BH with. "Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT(So BH made one himself) so I'll drop some stuff in here(here being the QT BH just made) since I have to step out for a moment." It is far more probable than your theory that BH made a QT, the hosts were made aware of it, and they just stuck with that QT for the BH-GK masoning. The slip you found simply isn't. The thing is that's a POSSIBLE explanation, but it's not the one that BH has offered. The Mafia QT slip seems completely possible as well. I had similar thoughts as you, that there could be an explanation like the one you mentioned, but I wanted to wait to see what his actual explanation was first, instead of handing the excuse to him like you just now did. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:13 WaveofShadow wrote: EBWOP: we all thought Nightmare was scum at the start of the game. You have also sort of flip-flopped on whether you find BH scummy or null-scum or what have you, so I'm trying to divine a true alignment read from you on him. On BH, I don't know. There's a lot about his play that I don't like, but the content of the QTs (not the one I'm in now; he has a single post in it from when he made it where he wants to know my reads and if I'll help him lynch TPS) seems to show active sleuthing. I was hoping to get a firmer read on him through the QT today. I think that the non-contributors are more suspect at this point, and have voted for Wiggles accordingly, for his refusal to present and promote any reads at all. It's tempting to react to and analyze only the active players in the thread, but there's been a lot of disappearance. For example, at what point do we expect Mocsta and Ace to lay their full suspciions down? I thought Ace would be like a Marvellosity type where he lays out confident reads on everybody and breaks apart everyone's bad logic, but he's had zero thread presence since replacing in. Mocsta has just been annoying and then disappeared, although I think he is asleep in Australia or something. Comic's case against VE which is actually just a hardcore defense of BH is a little odd, and I wonder what you think about it. | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:14 Vivax wrote: If BH could just make a qt for himself why did he wait for the hosts to make another one? I don't know if this means much, but the creator for the QT I'm in now is DRHEL. For some reason I doubt that the host would allow someone to make their own QT. I've played more newbie games than not; is it ever a practice for the players to make their own QT in a normal game? | ||
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On March 20 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: K glurio. GL buddy. I'll look into cosmic's VE case again, but in the end I think it just makes me assume that one of either VE or BH has to be scum. The super hard defense of GK by BH makes me think if he's scum then likely GK is too btu I don't know how likely that is, despite my conspiracy theory and the QT 'scumslip.' Speaking of which I remember harboring concerns about VE's town circle earlier on D1, but now we're on D2 and we haven't heard anything. Was it a joke or what? VE at one point said that the whole SAST thing was merely a tool and that he wasn't actually serious about it. I will have to go through his filter to find it but am about to leave work now. | ||
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One thing worth noting about his defensiveness is that in the other game I played with WoS, I made a fake case on him, and he was SUPER apologetic. Like, he just said "sorry guys, I must be playing this wrong" and pretty much rolled over. He was town. This game, he has been very emotional in his defensiveness, using poor logic (I'm always a mislynched townie, therefore I will always be a mislynch). He wasn't very defensive at ALL when he was a townie threatened by mislynch. And the Wiggle vote really cements the case; there were already a few votes on him before WoS went for it. I don't know why I'd forgotten about that scum slip; I think all of these pseduo-slips that keep getting dismissed made me intentionally dismiss all of them? I don't know. But the fact remains there are very few town reasons for him to mis-compose his sentence in the way that he did. ##Unvote ##Vote WaveofShadow | ||
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And I think the butthurt isn't strong enough yet, Mocsta needs to make an appearance and hurt some butts | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:30 Mocsta wrote: DP, This can be put to rest pretty easily. I apologise for jumping the gun and making thread comments without reading even 1/4 of Day 1. Thats pure laziness on my behalf, and there is no excuse for it. Mocsta, please tell me you've read the entire thread by now. This post was from a bit ago, and you've since spent a bunch of time reformatting logs, so surely you've read the thread by now? I just think you should stop posting so much if you haven't even read the entire thread. You've made some good points but you're also casting suspicion around a lot of places, which makes me uncomfortable if you haven't done due diligence yet. The 180 on Wiggles is definitely suspicious, and I think that WoS has to answer for that. I'll admit I was going to unvote when I saw his impassioned defenses to nearly every single attacker, but sciberbia's point about Wiggles being one of his top town reads makes the move look especially scummy -- not only was it the leading wagon at the time, but it's someone he had a town read on, and he did it only after people asked him to go after scum. I feel good keeping my vote where it is for now, and think we should lynch WoS today unless he can persuade otherwise. But I wanted to draw attention to an interesting post in the meantime: On March 20 2013 13:47 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, could you tone down on the swearing please? It can turn people off (including townies), which will in turn fuel this bandwagon against you, and the worst kind of wagon is one where it is town pushed. I think it would be most beneficial to everyone if you could consolidate your posting and present your defense against kita's main case. Or build a strong case of your own on somebody. Because right now it is getting more difficult to read you and you are giving scum / good intentioned townies more fuel. I'll be looking over your meta, the case and the posts in interest in the meantime. I don't like the nannying coming from a player who's been mostly inactive, showing up only recently to create a stance where he looks like a rational pro-town player and the guy everyone's already suspecting looks like an irrational scum player. This post comes after at least four different people have gone after WoS, and WoS has made responsive posts to each of them. I just think that there are a lot more useful things that cosmic could have chimed in on than the fact that WoS is swearing -- I mean, what does he think about the actual content of his defenses? The other thing about cosmicomics is that his most substantive post is a huge case against VE, who had just claimed Vet. Only once does he address that the person he's trying to lynch has claimed vet, and that's at the very end when he merely quotes Ace's hypothetical question as to why a townie would claim vet. There is no argumentative substance; the majority of it is actually just a defense of Wade Fell (BH). I find it odd that he completely dismisses the most obvious and powerful town tell for VE within his case, except for quoting a single line from the most veteran player in the game and using that as the argument. | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Meta aside, you guys are forcing me so I give up this time. Looking way too much into shit that isn't there and I can't go through 2 pages of posts and try to turn you off of all of it. I was going to wait until later tonight but I guess it doesn't matter now. Maybe one of these mafia games I'll actually learn how to play. It's up to you guys, but I'm dead by the end of N2 anyway. If you don't kill me mafia will now. It's not "up to you guys," it's up to you to not look scummy and help us find scum. Whatever you have to do in order to accomplish that, go ahead, but it's your job, not ours. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:19 Mocsta wrote: Well before WoS made his post, iw as reading in peace so p14. Cos ppl keep talking to me, its now only p15 perhaps i should jsut stop refereshing and read the whole night.. actually i will jsut do that. im sick of not knowing the status quo. Yes, NOW go read the thread, now that Ace has called you scum. But you feel okay actually voting for people and calling people scum without having actually read the thread? That is horrible. What really makes me mad about this is the fact that you spent time reformatting those logs so that other people could analyze them, but you've only read 15 pages of content. Yet you still feel confident enough to call multiple people scum, case suspicions on several other people, and then bounce as soon as someone calls you scum. | ||
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On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power? You only ask this question if your own role is one with power. At the time I wondered if it was just scum blue-hunting, but this comment leads me to believe that WoS is telling the truth. I want to know why Ace thought WoS was town. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:33 Mocsta wrote: its because i realised im not helping town by making comments without reading the whole thread. If WoS claim is legit, i need to figure out who i want to push for lynch as an alternative. that means I have to re-read the whole thread, and build a full case on whoever. At this stage, most likely BH, but i dunno whats gonna happen when i read pages 20-40 for the first time. Hence why im disappearing. See ya Wow, I am such a dick for calling you out for this when you 100% agree with me, I was obviously way out of line | ||
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And there's always a chance you get medic-saved, so no reason to quit trying because you assume mafia will kill you tonight anyway. Play to your wincon WoS | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:51 Vivax wrote: Zarepath why do you keep asking people scummy questions about their rolenames and roles they don't concern you AT ALL, if you are town. It concerns me if a red Eye can get away with pretending to be blue. He's been incredibly vague his entire role claim, and his breadcrumb isn't actually a breadcrumb. He could have taken any sentence he said about TPS on N1 and said "I was going to say this phrase every time I checked someone." It's true his read on him changed, but his read changed on a lot of people (Wiggles) for seemingly no reason. | ||
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You were slow in actually claiming, in presenting your breadcrumbs, and have only been antagonistic the entire process. It's almost as if you were deliberately delaying while you found something you could present as a breadcrumb. I thought that breadcrumbs in non-newbie games were supposed to be really obvious things in retrospect, like using certain capitals or a cipher or whatever. I don't see what town loses if you claim the name of TPS's role (you don't have to say its power or anything, if it has one or not), and he can say "Yes, that's right." Your breadcrumb wasn't convincing and you still haven't explained your switch on Mr. Wiggles, even though he was one of your strongest town reads. I think it's fine to require more proof. | ||
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As far as the mason chat, it's going pretty awful: + Show Spoiler + zarepath 03-19-2013 10:17 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE I like the case on WoS a lot right now. His slip is pretty similar to TPS's slip, actually. I wonder if there's something there. 11 zarepath 03-19-2013 10:16 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Honestly, I think even if you're onto something, nobody will listen to you because it looks like you are tunneling him and you've been fairly abrasive with VE and TPS. I think it would go a long way if you were to list some other people you also thought to be scum, and mentioned why, and then explained why your scum read on TPS is still the best read. 10 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 09:36 PM ET (US) so that slip from TPS about coag's alignment imo seals it for me. his last post or so has been more reasonable, but there's no good explanation for that slip other than "TPS is scum and knows coag is town". I'll be continuing to push him. I'm pretty sure I can convince people at this point 9 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 09:34 PM ET (US) On March 20 2013 10:33 Coagulation wrote: the butt hurt in this thread is getting thick. I can hardly walk in it. assholes and elbows deep in butt hurt rofl 8 zarepath 03-19-2013 07:17 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Yeah, no problem. I'm down with talking more except you were busy at the same time that I was free, so we couldn't really discuss things. I'm open to talk more later but nwo I have to go do some stuff. Ask me any private Q's you want in the meantime if you want. 7 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 05:06 PM ET (US) Also zare you don't seem to get the idea behind this QT. I'm probably one of the best scumhunters on TL. Although if I agree on reads I would appreciate your help, the purpose of this QT is to see what your thought process is like, and to get better insight into what you think. You are not my top town-read, you are just a townread I have that a lot of people think are scum. Since I'm already outed to the thread, it makes the most sense to mason you and try to learn more about your thought process. 6 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 05:00 PM ET (US) DrH was being a slow piece of crap and not setting up the QT between me and GK very quickly. He PMed me and told me to set it up myself and send him the link. I did so, but I he didn't reply (and neither did Oats) and GK didn't post in the thread, so I wrote up a post and stepped out. Later, DrH PMed the link to GK and we used the QT I set up. 5 zarepath 03-19-2013 12:49 PM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Are you following the thread at all? They're pulling a quote from your logs that makes it look like the first line wasn't written in the Messenger QT. How did that happen? 4 zarepath 03-19-2013 10:44 AM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Yeah, I'm just not seeing TPS as scum. He's too assertive and active. There are plenty of other people who look way more suspect, like TestSubject, layabout, Mr. Wiggles, and Trance. 3 zarepath 03-19-2013 09:06 AM ET (US) EDIT DELETE Honestly, you were one of my scum reads until I read all this Messenger stuff, and after reading this QT and before reading the other ones, I thought this was highly suspect -- if you want help lynching your top scum read, why do you pick the townie with the least amount of credibility? Right now I'm going through all the filters to group my reads and present them to the thread, to hopefully get myself some more town cred. Hopefully I'll see something about TPS that makes me agree with you and we can work it out. I'll tell you my reads before I post them up there if you want. 2 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 03:31 AM ET (US) I'm heading to bed and will be back in thread in ~9-10 hours. 1 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 03:16 AM ET (US) I'll keep it short and simple: this QT lasts until the end of the day. I think you're town, but there is a strong current of lynch against you. If you die, it happens, but the most important thing is to use your time alive as best you can. I won't be posting the logs of this QT except with your permission, or to save one of us from a lynch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18055501 I like how you're thinking here- I like how you think in general, fearlessly and townie. I've updated my case against TPS, and I'd like to know who your top scumreads are, if TPS is among them and whether you'd be interested in collaborating with me to get him lynched. If we both share our though processes with each other, we can get better reads on each other. Do not claim your role to me. | ||
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The issue I have with this is that his breadcrumb frankly sucked and could eaisly have been completely dug-up to "prove" himself blue, and while others are okay with this, there is no way that it's proof. Either he says the name of the role now and we can move on and look at other people, or he has to report each day what he looked at and did. You have a point, Mocsta, about the name of the role possibly being a power tell -- but how are we supposed to keep our scum targets from fake claiming like this every time we're about to lynch them? This whole claim has been done slowly, bitterly, and with vague details. | ||
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layabout, Sandroba, VE, BH Mr. Orange ... does that refer to Fruity Mafia? hopeless1der, layabout, sandroba, yamato, Vivax Layabout is the mirror, isn't he? | ||
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We'll always know who the 3rd party player is, but if we refuse to look for scum today we lose a lot of ground. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote: You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch. I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town. | ||
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On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote: I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol TestSubject has been completely AFK ever since he voted for GreyMist, save for this post, so look for his contributions soon: On March 20 2013 11:28 TestSubject893 wrote: Hey guys, sorry I've been really inactive. I had a couple of things come up that have been taking up a lot of my time. I'm like 20 pages behind but am going to catch up right now. glurio's last post is calling WoS scum, and since the Eye claim, glurio's said nothing. I want to know if he believes WoS's claim and who his scum reads are now. Cosmicomics' last post looked pretty scummy, and his VE case seemed absurd to me: On March 20 2013 13:47 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, could you tone down on the swearing please? It can turn people off (including townies), which will in turn fuel this bandwagon against you, and the worst kind of wagon is one where it is town pushed. I think it would be most beneficial to everyone if you could consolidate your posting and present your defense against kita's main case. Or build a strong case of your own on somebody. Because right now it is getting more difficult to read you and you are giving scum / good intentioned townies more fuel. I'll be looking over your meta, the case and the posts in interest in the meantime. Mr. Wiggles still has no new reads except for WoS, and he hasn't reacted at all to WoS's blue claim. RyuSuzaku hasn't done anything since his N1 reads on VE, TranceStorm, and glurio. Of all of these, I like cosmicomics the most as a lynch. He hasn't done much, and the things he's done lack follow-through -- he made the poor VE case and never spoke of it again, he showed up to tell WoS to quit being a baby after everyone else was already on WoS, and hasn't said anything about WoS again after that. He looks like scum to me. | ||
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Honestly, I was defending you until you literally joined an anti-town team. I don't understand your outrage here. | ||
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@ Vivax: TranceStorm began defending himself after my read on him, and Mr. Wiggles did not, so I pushed Wiggles. I'll be taking another look at Trance today. @ Mocsta: I can't even remember what geript was like except that I think he was inactive lyncyhbait, but I might be mixing him up with glurio. I honestly don't recall. You brought up a good point and I'll check it out today | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:45 sciberbia wrote: cosmicomics But what do you guys think about making this a cosmicomics lynch? I think we can all agree he is: - reasonably likely to be scum - lurky - does not show any indication of ever contributing more I would be happy to write up a case and vote cosmicomics if you guys would be receptive. I don't know how to feel about this, as I would have been plenty happy with a CC lynch if I weren't AFK at the time, but that last line reads incredibly scummy. He only wants to make a case if people will agree with it? If you're convinced about a CC lynch, shouldn't you make the case and push it, not ask people if they WANT you to make the case and push it? | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote: ##Vote: goodkarma SHEEP ME I noticed that right at the time when everyone is asking for consolidation, Mocsta busted out a completely different wagon. Also notice that Mocsta has been getting a LOT of mileage out of criticizing people for jumping onto the Ace case. He was pretty critical of those on the Ace case, but not really pushing his own case that much. It's not that he had a town read on ACe; he just wanted to criticize those voting for him for some reaosn. And right after the flip, he re-quotes himself saying that. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:42 DoYouHas wrote: I like your case on Ace, MrWiggles, I like it a lot. It also doesn't hurt that you happen to agree with me on the scum mason thing. Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: Ace This is what Mocsta was criticizing, about having a scum read on Wiggles and then immediately voting for whoever Wiggles builds a case on. On March 21 2013 13:32 TranceStorm wrote: Holy hell. Where were you to post that case a few hours ago Wiggles? Its certainly the best case I've seen yet for this lynch -> Ace has done next to nothing this game besides post a few vague suspicions and jump onto the VE lynch. The most damning evidence I've seen yet, as Wiggles points out, is the fact that Ace says "We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.", but does no analysis or anything else during the entire day! Voting for VE certainly cannot have been too taxing on his part, why not help the town out? This is what Mocsta was criticizing in a nutshell. Looks way scummimer than DYH's slip imo, because it adds so much less to the case. And personally I just hate his use of exclamation points, so there's that, too. | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:19 TestSubject893 wrote: I liked it. He makes some good points Zare and GK aren't looking great in my eyes. Geript was on there at one point but has moved back toward null since. Yes, but there's some a possibility that they are both anti-town but on different factions, so its not the end of the world. I'll reevaluate as new information becomes available, no need to blindly speculate now. I didn't like how Testsubject's opinion on cosmic's case is almost as null of an opinion as he can give; very few details, and if he liked it so much, where was he pushing it? I also want to know why I'm not looking great in his eyes. Testsubject, what is scummy about me? He just reads as being very unconcerned, and possibly trying to avoid suspicion. | ||
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BH, from what i can tell, is genuinely trying to figure the game out, albeit he spent the first two days in a tunnel. CC I maintain looks very scummy. His filter didn't change much over the past 20 pages that I had to catch up on, and I think a CC lynch would be grand. DYH I read as town early but when I look at all of his towniest moments they are all simply him adding on to other people's cases. He picked up the zarepath case, he picked up the VE case, he picked up the Ace case. I don't see a lot of unique reads from him and I will be paying better attention to him going forward. For some reason I thought DYH would mayor this game after D1, but he's kind of disappointed since. It doesn't help that we lynched another player who could easily have formed a mayor role. | ||
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Another thing worth doing is probably analyzing the votes from D1 and D2, now that we have two sets of data points. | ||
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Vigis should focus on scum, imo. Coag's posts are pretty easy to read for me; they push thoughts and discussion forward, even though they're short and coarse. | ||
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On March 22 2013 01:48 Vivax wrote: Ok I didn't know that idiom. Anyway, there's something I find odd, you agree that TS is scummy here for his switch from Wiggles to Ace. + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:06 zarepath wrote: I had a strong town read on DYH because of how he attacked me D1 with more effort than anybody else, but his D2 he was just flipping from town sentiment to town sentiment. He's usually one of the first on the wagon, but not THE first: This is what Mocsta was criticizing, about having a scum read on Wiggles and then immediately voting for whoever Wiggles builds a case on. This is what Mocsta was criticizing in a nutshell. Looks way scummimer than DYH's slip imo, because it adds so much less to the case. And personally I just hate his use of exclamation points, so there's that, too. But even after I pointed out that DYH and GK did the same, you don't say they're scummy for what TS did as well + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:24 zarepath wrote: GK I have ignored ever since BH's logs with him. They both seemed town and what they said in there was consistent with how they behaved in the thread. DYH I read as town early but when I look at all of his towniest moments they are all simply him adding on to other people's cases. He picked up the zarepath case, he picked up the VE case, he picked up the Ace case. I don't see a lot of unique reads from him and I will be paying better attention to him going forward. For some reason I thought DYH would mayor this game after D1, but he's kind of disappointed since. It doesn't help that we lynched another player who could easily have formed a mayor role. You abstained from giving a DYH read and said you will look forward. How does this change your read on him? I think DYH deserves a look because, as I've said, he is usually on somebody else's bandwagon. The reason I suspect TS more is because DYH did a lot on day 1 to make himself read town to me. He didn't need to dredge up my filters from old games and do a meta read on me if he's scum; the wagon was already rolling. TS has been consistently a low contributor, flying under the radar. I really want to focus my analysis on those four players because they're the ones whose contributions are low in both substance and quantity, and I don't want them nagging me in the back of my mind all game. I want to punish the inactive players, whether they be scum or town, until they read clearly enough to me of whichever alignment they are. | ||
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On March 22 2013 01:52 TestSubject893 wrote: I wasn't pushing that case because I wasn't reading the thread at that point... Honestly I didn't focus on it much because I was trying to get caught up. You've been scummy mostly because of the tone and perceived motivation of some of your posts. I'm not feeling as strongly about it anymore though to be honest. If you are scum you're at the back of line right now, we'll focus on you more when we need to. Why aren't you feeling it as much now? You read me as scum and you don't as much now, and I'd like justification for that. Also it will make me feel better about myself hopefully. | ||
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Most honest reads that people provide will have both scum and town points in them, because no scum or town player looks 100% that way or the other; many things can be construed either way. | ||
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I assume that GoodKarma protected WoS before dying, in which case I don't think we can rely on another night out of WoS, especially if mafia/3rd parties have 3 KP now instead of 2. I am probably going to sheep you on cosmicomics, glurio, but let me give him another read this morning first. | ||
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Also, too bad about Mocsta. | ||
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##Vote: cosmicomics | ||
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On March 22 2013 08:29 Kenpachi wrote: ... wtf Ace lynch are you guys 4 rela like really what i wanted to cringe when i read through the last 20 pages honestly. That just was not even fair and more importantly, easy as fuck for mafia to manipulate. Where is the justice in lynching somebody without a fair trial? are you fucking kidding me? We have numerous veterans in this game and this game is for experienced players and you guys go ahead and lynch Ace, not even there to defend himself. Honestly forget Vivax, the dude isn't as blatantly obvious as DP and Wiggles if he were scum because they literally just walked into the vote with 4 hours left and screamed LYNCH GOODKARMA/LYNCH ACE. Not only that, Wiggles wagon was about to catch fire and VE is going to be easy to kill for the next night regardless of his alignment, making it even easier for scum to manipulate our lynch. Fucking unbelievable. Ace was barely in this game too, I thought we might have learned something with that GreYMisT lynch. SERIOUSLY. Also, VisceraEyes is a clown. BH is town, GK is town, Coagulation is town. Get off their dicks, and actually think for once. This what you are looking for WoS? | ||
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On March 23 2013 06:06 Kenpachi wrote: I think i should organize myself for once. None of these should be surprising, they're pretty agreeable. Town testsubject### Teepeeshooter waveofshadow coagulation Mafia Wiggles DarthPunk zarepath (intuitive) My lynch vote for today is Mr. Wiggles. Why? simple, he feigned usefulness here and there and here some more. I posted about his chainlink of questions and in general, he is playing like mafioso wiggles. Is there anything else for me to say WAVEOFSHADOW? Why no opinion about cosmicomics? He hard-defended Wade Fell while attacking VE, who has claimed vet and we have no reason to doubt him. He is a low contributor and the tone of his posts seems very incongruous to his actual standing in the thread. He seems unwilling to recognize his low standing in the town, and thus the very tone of his posts is a sham. I understand a Wiggles lynch but I really think cosmicomics looks scummier. | ||
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 I know I was voting for cosmicomics, but after reading Wiggles' filter I'd thought he wouldn't be that bad of a lynch, either. Honestly, that guy needs to flip soon. It seems as though nobody is really willing to talk about him. Does anybody have a town read on him, and why? | ||
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On March 25 2013 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: These kind of posts are super weird after we mislynched again. When I mislynch three times in a row my confidence is shot. I double and triple think every read because I am worried about mis-lynching again. So when people come straight out after a mislynch like that fearlessly wanting to lynch into lynch bait. It worries me immensely. What about cosmicomics makes him lynch bait? I mean, people are simply ignoring him or refusing to talk about him, and I don't understand why town is so eager to ignore him. I've felt like he's looked scummy every single day, and while some have agreed and others have simply ignored him, I haven't heard anybody read him as town. You call him "lynch bait" but don't say how or why he looks scummy enough to be lynch bait, or what about him makes him town that just looks scummy. | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:28 Wade Fell wrote: You know what geript? I'm tired of you flinging shit like a monkey in a zoo from the sidelines. If you had something to say, you'd have said it during D1. Everything you've done this game has been with the purpose of hurting town, and you're just mad I've attacked you and other people who didn't like VE's idea for forming a town circle. Your so-called evidence regarding how I began this night is bullshit, like everything else you spew. of COURSE I look into the filters of dead townies. of COURSE I'll take his reads into account. we were literally talking about this over the course of the mafia podcast, but you didn't absorb any of that because you're just another grush, just another player who is worthless as a townie, so worthless scum keeps him alive until lylo because he never does anything remotely useful, the perfect scum player. VE told me to hold back on attacking you tonight, he said that he'd try to coax something useful out of you, but what's this? You're flinging shit at everything useful town has tried to do this game, because the very idea of veterans, of skilled players, trying to hunt scum is offensive to you. You're just a fly, geript, a fly on the wall that I will crush like all the other players who stand against me this game. I'm tired of listening to your garbage. tomorrow try to start a wagon on me, I fucking dare you. I'll lynch you first. I really doubt that geript is scum considering how hard WF worked to go after him. Geript was WF's back-up for his TPC obsession. | ||
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He also didn't have much to say about kenpachi, layabout, or kitaman. Layabout is another player who has really escaped attention despite posting almost nothing and I'll be reading his filter. | ||
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On March 18 2013 09:21 layabout wrote: What do you think of zarepath or WoS? On March 18 2013 10:26 layabout wrote: Right now the 3 wagons are zarepath darthpunk and greymist. I wouldn't want to encourage ppl to do this but the way he calls everyone suspicious of him scum is remarkably town-like. Grey's looks fine to me so ## votezarepath night all On March 19 2013 02:19 layabout wrote: vivax i really like your case on zarepath, particularly the way he calls greymist scum for not pushing him. Isn't that more or less what prom did last game? On March 20 2013 00:26 layabout wrote: What do you make of keirathi's take on zarepath? Layabout has a short filter (5 pages or so) and I recommend that everybody read it. I'm at a point where I'm worried that I can open anybody's filter and become convinced their scum, and so second/third opinions would be very helpful here. The quotes above are everything that layabout saying on Day 1 about me. Note that the only time he mentioned me before actually voting for me was in asking someone ELSE about me, and his vote is more giving town reads on two other wagons than it is actually thinking critically. I think his day 1 lacked any critical thought and was motivated by a desire to be with town. On Day 2, he was very erratic and back-and-forth, seemingly dependent on thread sentiment. He agreed with Ace that VE needed to be lynched (note that WF was as well). Note also this very confusing non-statement about BH's likely scumminess: On March 20 2013 08:27 layabout wrote: It's normal so we have a rough idea, i think in the mafia podcast drh mentioned wanting to use hidden communication roles, if BH is the scum mason and can mason people all the time why would town's only mason be grey's role? Keir was saying that he thinks they will be balanced am i am inclined to agree. So i think it's more likely that his role belongs to town. BH's defense of GK was scummy. His filter looks quite normal for him, i tend to skim his posts. When called out for this whishy-washiness, his response is the least critical way to think about someone whom he seems to be saying quite a bit (without actually saying anything): On March 20 2013 08:39 layabout wrote: Maybe i am not saying this right. I think that there are likely quite a few mason roles in this game because of greymists role, he is a sudo-mason/vig. It would be really weird if that was the only mason role that belongs to town. BH claims mason but a more powerful mason than grey. Either there are no more masons and since grey's mason is so weak i think that would leave BH town. Or there a more masons and one of the masons is scum. I don't like how his scum read of BH, which can only be a scum read when pressed to it by others, is based entirely on town blue-claiming. In fact, he asks for yet another blue claim in the following post: On March 20 2013 10:08 layabout wrote: Haven't filtered WoS since day1, his attitude didn't look good and grey thought he was scum. I want to resolve stuff to do with BH though. If you are a town aligned mason i strongly suggest claiming. night. Why demand a blue claim just to make BH suspicious? Why is this scum read based entirely upon the possible number of masons, and nothing actually within the content of BH? Then in his reads post, he puts BH under a "reasonable to be mafia" section but he is the only one with a caveat: On March 22 2013 10:02 layabout wrote: Players that stand a reasonable chance of being mafia@ Glurio Wade Fell (depending on other roles) TestSubject893 Mr. Wiggles Players that admited to being 3rd party and are currently advocating their own lynch: VisceraEyes So he spends all this time talking about the various ways that BH might be mafia depending upon blue roles, but he actively defends BH from actual content-based arguments: On March 20 2013 00:42 layabout wrote: Vivax that is literally the worst reason to lynch BH i have ever seen or thought of. But for all this talk and discussion about BH, he doesn't actually want any attention on BH: On March 20 2013 08:15 layabout wrote: I don't want to look at BH until we have more masons out or flipped, it's really unlikely that grey would be the only one since he was supposed to be the vig. So for someone who so very much doesn't want BH to be talked about (but is doing it anyway), who is the main object of his pressure? VE, the vet claim who layabout never calls mafia. It's the simple thing to do, he says, etc. Which I find odd, because just before this, he said: On March 20 2013 06:13 layabout wrote: Why the hell is there a push on VE? dude is supertown. But when he caught up and realized that VE may have joined 3P, or at least that others suspected it, he piled on the pressure with the rest of the thread. Why is a townie so carefree with terms like "supertown" if they can so easily toss them aside in favor of joining thread sentiment? What made VE so "supertown" and yet is entirely worthless evidence in the face of VE outing a 3P player and posting the logs? Why does this "supertown" read not give layabout a MINUTE of reconsidering that perhaps VE didn't actually join the 3P, as he obviously posted the entire log (but took time to remove the time stamps)? We don't see evidence of that read actually being a read anywhere in the thread. I posit that only mafia would have the confidence to waltz into a thread where there is a serious push to lynch someone, and before actually catching up on those arguments say "why are we trying to lynch mr. supertown himself?" and then join the thread in trying to lynch that person -- not even on the basis of their scumminess. There is zero consistency with his reads and votes, most of his filter is him asking other people what they think about various people that he hasn't present his own read on yet, and the few times he's forced into making statements one way or the other, as in with BH, he states it both ways and then tries to back out of it awkwardly. His final post is an admission that he doesn't have much time right now, which is the only point that I will give him in his favor right now. But even before then his contributions were lightweight and compromised, and incredibly awkward in anything and everything having to do with BH. | ||
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On March 20 2013 08:27 layabout wrote: It's normal so we have a rough idea, i think in the mafia podcast drh mentioned wanting to use hidden communication roles Okay, so this is a setup speculation-based argument, not exactly the greatest for forming reads to begin with. if BH is the scum mason and can mason people all the time why would town's only mason be grey's role? Things get confusing here. He enters the hypothetical, essentially stating that BH can only be the scum mason if there is another town mason. Think about that argument for a second, and the number of assumptions that it's based on, and remember that layabout is going out of his way to say this IMMEDIATELY after stating that he doesn't want to look at BH right now. Keir was saying that he thinks they will be balanced am i am inclined to agree. So i think it's more likely that his role belongs to town. The very beginning of this sentence has a minor tell -- he doesn't just say that he thinks mason roles will be balanced, he has to frame it within what someone else has already said -- someone who has already flipped town. But what he's actually saying doesn't make a lot of sense, either. He's assuming that there will be a balanced number of mason roles, and that therefore his role is more likely to belong to town. But if mason roles were balanced, wouldn't that mean that there must be another mafia mason role somewhere that layabout must know about in order for BH to more likely be town? His conclusion seems to be the opposite of the logic he just presented us. Now, you can say, "oh, he just miscommunicated, or made a mistake." If you make a mistake, it is much more likely to be on the logical side of your argument than it is on the actual conclusion side. You don't say that BH is more likely to be town as an accident -- there must be a reason for that, and that reason is not anywhere in this post. I think the reason could be found more in the motivations that drive layabout than in any argument that he's presented. BH's defense of GK was scummy. His filter looks quite normal for him, i tend to skim his posts. So if BH is more likely to be town, why is this statement here? It seems that he still feels like he hasn't produced enough of a read for whoever asked him whether he thought BH was scummy or not, and so he feels compelled to say something more. But this statement reveals that layabout's read of BH has exactly no bearing on his argument that BH is town -- he admits something scummy about BH that I don't think anybody actually cares about, but then tempers that with the statement that BH's filter looks NORMAL, ie, indescript, not worth looking into. And then the final statement he makes, the fact that layabout hasn't actually thoroughly read BH's filter, makes this entire post looks like the most awkward possible dance to avoid saying anything concrete about BH at all. It looks fueled by a motivation to clear himself of any statement about BH's actual scumminess or towniness, an admission that he hasn't given serious thought to a person he is spending a serious amount of time and effort talking about, and an attempt to drive the discussion towards setup and role speculation and away from filter content and rational argument. I think this is an incredibly scummy post, and I think he knew it, too, which is why he posted a follow-up which clarified his statement into "BH might be scum if there is another town mason." But whether that's what layabout meant to say in the first place or not doesn't matter; the confusion and mistakes in this post I've dissected above reveal the motivations and priorities of layabout, and those motivations and priorities are SCUM. ##vote: layabout | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Apparently so? There is a circumstance where I think this may not be true since again, my PM says nothing about alignment, but my rolecheck result surprised me. What was surprising about your N1 rolecheck, WoS? This was never clear to me. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:40 WaveofShadow wrote: DP I already linked it. You quoted it. Had I gone longer without having to reveal, before every nightcheck I would refer to someone being 'particularly interesting.' Also, where are your breadcrumbs for each of your other nightchecks? You never gave any breadcrumb that you would check who you actually alleged to check, and convenientely both times those people ended up as dead, and you only claimed to have checked them after they were dead. Another question is this: if you have been roleblocked the past two nights, why did literally nobody claim that they were roleblocked on N1? | ||
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WoS is now on my radar again and I intend to look more into geript's case on him. If I don't have time to give myself a serious look at him, it'll be between cosmic and layabout for me. I've been wanting a cosmic lynch for days now so I can easily join a cosmic wagon if town wants to consolidate there, but I'd really like more opinions on my layabout case. So far I've heard "good case" from a few people. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:45 zarepath wrote: From Bureaucracy mafia: layabout, Sandroba, VE, BH Mr. Orange ... does that refer to Fruity Mafia? hopeless1der, layabout, sandroba, yamato, Vivax Layabout is the mirror, isn't he? I'm beginning to wonder if layabout is the mirror and thus a third party. BH, Sandroba, and VE are all dead, and since he explicitly refers to Bureaucracy mafia, the only person left is layabout. I wonder if this explains some of his scummy play -- unwilling to make cases, quick to claim that BH is the mirror and should be lynched, etc. It's also possible, however, that someone else put that there so as to make VE think it was someone else recruiting him, so this is mostly speculation without a real case. The main thing that makes me question my layabout read is the fact that he called for a BH lynch based on the fact that BH was the mirror (he was masoning). That turned out to be a dumb thing that he retracted, though, because logs were posted and we got BH's role name, and it wasn't the Eye. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Is this a good enough reason to consider layabout town, or a good enough reason to not lynch him today even in the face of his super weird comments about BH? | ||
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I am no longer advocating a layabout lynch for today. On another review of his filter, his push to lynch BH does not seem to be scum-motivated, even though it is almost immediately withdrawn -- I can see scum maybe doing it knowing that they are going to withdraw the case because it was based off of misinformation, but that's not my read of what happened. That leaves to me WoS and cosmicomics. On Day 3 I posted this, adding in Wiggles in a subsequent post: On March 22 2013 01:26 zarepath wrote: Vivax, right now I'm convinced there's scum in one of these three players: TestSubject, Trance, and CC. I'm more convinced of CC than the others, but I haven't studied their filters in full since the beginning of D2. In the end, Wiggles got lynched, and at this point the only person left on my list is CC. I've suspected him since Day 2 and he hasn't done anything to look pro-town that I can tell. BH said literally nothing about him, many people have mentioned he looks scummy for the same reasons that Wiggles was scummy and yet Wiggles is the one who got the votes, not CC. His votes have all been scummy, his justifications for his votes have been scummy, and his cases and reads are insubstantial. I think CC is our most surefire lynch, and while WoS' blue claim looks sketchier by the day and layabout looks anti-town, I am most sure of CC being scum of the three. At this time I think that if you are okay with CC being lynched (ie, top 3 scumreads okay) you need to put the vote down on him now before mafia control the lynch as they did the last 3 days. I am not convinced that I can be around for any significant participation leading up to the lynch tonight, and I don't want another Ace lynch on our hands. ##unvote layabout ##vote: cosmicomics | ||
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On March 27 2013 04:47 geript wrote: Umm there's what 14 people left... Why do you think this is LYLO? What you hiding bro? Someone said for a 24 person game, there can be 5-8 scum. We don't know if 3P has KP that it hasn't used yet. We mislynch, we're at 13 people, scum kill 2, we're at 11. If there are 7 scum in this game and none of them were modkilled, we've lost if we mislynch today. If there are 6 scum in this game and none of them were modkilled, then we're at 6-5 after the night, but 5-5 if 3P kills someone or we screw up another vigi shot. I think we should treat today as our last chance to not lose. | ||
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geript kenpachi WoS glurio zarepath DoYouHas layabout kitaman27 RyuSuzaku ThePeashooter Ten of us, and 4 or fewer scum. (I think I'm correct in assuming that if there were 5 scum left we would have already lost.) Since their KP is apparently still 2 but we haven't lost, we have to lynch scum today, making it 6 to 3, at which point I don't know if they will still have 2 KP or not (I think we can still win either way at that point). I don't think there's any excuse for any townies left to NOT read the full filter of everyone left on this list. I have some suspicions but I won't be posting anything until I've given every single player a full read and then laid out how I think things fall. | ||
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TOWN geript + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 20:21 geript wrote: I went to bed before I saw this, but this is absolute bullshit. First, BH does value going back through dead players filters to look at their points; hell he even said he'd read mine even after I martyred myself. The real BH is no newb who sheeps other dead vets. This isn't the tone of the "Fuck Yah, I'm king of the world" BH we got last game; this isn't cold, rational aggressive BH. This is scum. Never once that I can think of last game did BH so instantly attack players after a flip especially so worthlessly. There's literally no point to this post whatsoever other than trying to direct traffic. I was at work and got lost in the DP VE slugfest and didn't catch this point at the time: Dude's scum and I intend on giving Zare an extra day. DoYouHas + Show Spoiler + Posts well, I just wish he would post more today. Not as certain about DYH as I am about geript, because I think DYH could be doing more and he isn't. Maybe Scum WoS + Show Spoiler + I don't fully trust my read on WoS either way -- there's been no real counterclaim to his DT power, and he's pressured BH somewhat, but that could also read as throwing softballs for BH to participate with. He's had multiple instances of possible scum slips (calling himself a newbie scum, knowing the number of scum remaining), and his claim was the most painful, laborious, awkward claim that I've ever seen. But someone mentioned that such a horrible claim couldn't have been scummy because scum would do it more carefully so as to look more legit -- but perhaps he was buying time so as to find a breadcrumb? I don't know about this guy, but I just don't like lynching an uncontested blue claim at MYLO/LYLO, whichever we're at. glurio + Show Spoiler + Super low contribution level -- couldn't see how anybody could see BH as scum, had a really abrupt unvote of WoS after WoS claimed without any real qualms at all (this after putting a case on WoS), voted Mocsta out of nowhere when everyone else was on Ace, pushed for both Wiggles and cosmicomics -- I could see him being scum, but I don't think there's a strong enough case for it on MYLO/LYLO day. layabout + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 00:53 layabout wrote: Today we should kill BH(Wade Fell). It's extremely likely that the mirror exists and it likely one of the mirror and BH is scum. Given his unusual defense of GK I think it's quite likely that BH is scum! ##Vote Wade Fell This is what makes me less sure about a layabout scum -- he actually pushed for a BH lynch, but it was out of nowhere and I don't quite follow the logic. What IS interesting here, though, is the fact that this is the first time that the mirror is mentioned. We now know that layabout was hooked with the mirror at this point, but the question becomes: why does layabout want others to think that BH is the mirror? Did layabout know somehow that VE was going to take the Mirror thing into the thread, thus giving layabout a chance to nullify his read of BH while still disassociating himself from him? A lot of WIFOM here. However, here's a question: how did layabout actually get converted (as was alleged by CC) if he was in a QT with VE on Day 2? It takes two full cycles to convert someone, and you can't be masoned to more than one person at once. So layabout could NOT have been converted, but why act as if he were? I don't understand the motivation for this behavior from any perspective. ThePeashooter + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:33 ThePeashooter wrote: You know I'm beginning to see why Greymist let himself get lynched. If we have townies like you we don't even need scum. On March 17 2013 15:51 Wade Fell wrote: On March 17 2013 15:50 ThePeashooter wrote: Wadefall, consolidate your shit. I played one game of dota and somehow 80 fucking posts popped up and you are nearly a quarter of them. Nothing demotivates me more than a game that gets spammed to shit. I was really happy we weren't heading for a 100 page Day 1. please stop you're so helpful stop being so helpful On March 17 2013 15:56 ThePeashooter wrote: Shut the fuck up. Is this a show? Seems like quite the escalation and then they both just drop it out of nowhere: On March 17 2013 15:58 Blazinghand wrote: TPS, I think we want the same thing here. We want you to post more and explain your thought process, and me to post less trying to prod you into doing so. Let's do that. Also, I don't know why he let Vivax go on for so long looking like he scum-slipped by calling him Yamato. He could have easily solved that crap by just saying "it wasn't a slip, because I'm not Yamato, but I'm not going to entertain any further guesses." Instead he let town spit its wheels forever before finally answering. One of his biggest posts is a bad argument full of WIFOM for why Ace needed to be lynched. The reason he's not on the bottom rung is because WoS has called him a Fool, and that's enough for me to not want to lynch him today. SCUM kenpachi + Show Spoiler + Disproportionate response to BH pushing a lynch (ie, false distancing from other scum): On March 17 2013 09:15 Kenpachi wrote: K BH. you know as well as i do that we dont deviate and form 2 wagons. fuck off? Buddying: On March 17 2013 07:54 Kenpachi wrote: Thats not all, You're critique of geript SUCKS. ITS TERRIBLE. People including DoYouHas and myself will wonder, what the fuck are you talking about? He does not look scum at all. Sheeps BH after fake distancing, two targets are both town flips: On March 17 2013 09:35 Kenpachi wrote: ok your bandwagon is pretty legit. I'd call for a lynch on Peashooter or goodkarma and a vig shot the next night. No questions that is done. Crappy reason to vote for GM: On March 18 2013 12:07 Kenpachi wrote: So i guess the goodkarma wagon is no more. In that case, i will vote for Greymist instead of zarepeth. Responds with: On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote: I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol ill bear with it though, I'd like to claim a medic protect on me, just cause. I have a feeling mafia will gun me down first night. GreYMisT not being scum is disappointing but it is honestly not surprising, though im having a hard time piecing information on his wagon together. Its safe to assume we will find majority of mafia, maybe even all of them, in the bunch that voted him because 1. easy as hell to sheep, 2. he is a forum veteran. 12 people voted for him, including me RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, Vivax, geript, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, zarepath, kitaman27, TestSubject893, WaveofShadow Honestly, a hard group to figure out. I'd like to assume that me and Ryu are not mafia lol. kitaman is just not contributing as much as we'd like to did we not realize? He's as invisible as I am. So he switches to a vote where he's not surprised he flipped town? Also note that he's not very comfortable NOT getting the limelight, and yet he's completely disappeared. Also note that this post is full of crap -- "mafia MUST be in here, but it's a hard group to figure out; btw, neither me or Ryu are mafia. But I'm having a hard time piecing information together. ALSO, I want to claim a medic protect because I am super town and scum know it." No drive to figure anything out, just to contribute without actually contributing anything. There is more energy spent trying to look like town, while also an awareness of HOW he looks TO town -- note the self-effacing "he's as invisible as I am." Why is he letting us all know how aware he is of his participation? Is it a proactive defense? On March 20 2013 10:48 Kenpachi wrote: we're all kidding here, goodkarma is still scum. Pretty much, his defense relies on the fact that he's playing like his meta. .. okay .. Day 1, its massively easy for you to fill in as yourself (somebody said this and i can testify but then, my testimonial isn't reliable.) It only makes too much sense to me for him to be scum. if he isn't we figure out a lot about the alignments of all the players because right now, it's all over the place. The last 15 pages was just 1 large pressure fest and i believe we should boldly lynch goodkarma. Goodkarma was a hot topic and was taken seriously as a lynch candidate and was seriously defended by a good amount of players. His case on goodkarma, who flipped blue, is based entirely on the fact that he was a hot topic and that many players talked about him. There is literally no comment on GK's actual content, just on the fact that he was talked about by the town. It's like a sheep trying to re-start the herd so he can have something to follow again. And what's with this "boldly" crap? How about "intelligently" or "carefully" or "rationally?" It's a bad argument without substance trying to get people to lynch emotionally. On March 21 2013 10:01 Kenpachi wrote: if someone wants to look into Vivax for me, go for it. I do not have a solid read on BH and VE cause they are incredibly difficult to read (they sway in persona every game from my experiences). However, VE is a better lynchbet cause he does offer a bit of information i'd say. unvote: goodkarma vote: Vivax ps: zarepath, you dont look all too hot with that post you mentioned me ^^ [spoiler=i bolded this load of crap by mistake and im too lazy to change that] On March 21 2013 02:23 zarepath wrote: [/spoiler]Kenpachi has completely disappeared, which is odd considering this: On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote: I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol TestSubject has been completely AFK ever since he voted for GreyMist, save for this post, so look for his contributions soon: On March 20 2013 11:28 TestSubject893 wrote: Hey guys, sorry I've been really inactive. I had a couple of things come up that have been taking up a lot of my time. I'm like 20 pages behind but am going to catch up right now. glurio's last post is calling WoS scum, and since the Eye claim, glurio's said nothing. I want to know if he believes WoS's claim and who his scum reads are now. Cosmicomics' last post looked pretty scummy, and his VE case seemed absurd to me: On March 20 2013 13:47 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, could you tone down on the swearing please? It can turn people off (including townies), which will in turn fuel this bandwagon against you, and the worst kind of wagon is one where it is town pushed. I think it would be most beneficial to everyone if you could consolidate your posting and present your defense against kita's main case. Or build a strong case of your own on somebody. Because right now it is getting more difficult to read you and you are giving scum / good intentioned townies more fuel. I'll be looking over your meta, the case and the posts in interest in the meantime. Mr. Wiggles still has no new reads except for WoS, and he hasn't reacted at all to WoS's blue claim. RyuSuzaku hasn't done anything since his N1 reads on VE, TranceStorm, and glurio. Of all of these, I like cosmicomics the most as a lynch. He hasn't done much, and the things he's done lack follow-through -- he made the poor VE case and never spoke of it again, he showed up to tell WoS to quit being a baby after everyone else was already on WoS, and hasn't said anything about WoS again after that. He looks like scum to me. I am voting Vivax but I want other people to check into his filter FOR me? What the heck is this? On March 21 2013 10:07 Kenpachi wrote: ill admit, i got a general gist of it to stay up to topic so briefly read it but didn't go too much into anything. Oh ya, wiggles was another hot topic for good reason. He's also a tricky dude to understand when he's scum because he very illusive as an experienced mafia player (Hes mafia every game) and I don't get a particularly good vibe of him. I have very limited experience with him being town so I have nothing to compare my vibe to. However, I don't like that in our conversation, all he proposed was a questionnaire so think about it. I generally think a barrage of questions is a shitty attempt to enter into the townie blend so FoS on him too. "wiggles was another hot topic for good reason." Why is he framing his reads in terms of how popular it was to talk about them? Also "Hes mafia every game." Isn't that just calling him mafia? Because the rest of this post doesn't look like he's calling him mafia, just warning town to pay attention to him. On March 21 2013 10:12 Kenpachi wrote: also his questions feigned usefulness. They didnt actually provide anything useful despite their objective tone. Also, he revealed halfheartedness when he just strayed away from the questionnaire after my last response so theres a lack of concern in Wiggles which makes me inclined to believe he is suspicious "lack of concern in Wiggles which makes me inclined to believe he is suspicious" that is a long train of mitigating phrases, leading to what is literally almost not a read at all. On March 22 2013 08:29 Kenpachi wrote: ... wtf Ace lynch are you guys 4 rela like really what i wanted to cringe when i read through the last 20 pages honestly. That just was not even fair and more importantly, easy as fuck for mafia to manipulate. Where is the justice in lynching somebody without a fair trial? are you fucking kidding me? We have numerous veterans in this game and this game is for experienced players and you guys go ahead and lynch Ace, not even there to defend himself. Honestly forget Vivax, the dude isn't as blatantly obvious as DP and Wiggles if he were scum because they literally just walked into the vote with 4 hours left and screamed LYNCH GOODKARMA/LYNCH ACE. Not only that, Wiggles wagon was about to catch fire and VE is going to be easy to kill for the next night regardless of his alignment, making it even easier for scum to manipulate our lynch. Fucking unbelievable. Ace was barely in this game too, I thought we might have learned something with that GreYMisT lynch. SERIOUSLY. Also, VisceraEyes is a clown. BH is town, GK is town, Coagulation is town. Get off their dicks, and actually think for once. This is so fake. He called BH town and GK town (after pushing for a "bold" lynch of GK), but the majority of this post is simply trying to look pro-town WAY after the Ace lynch was old news. Fake outrage. The timing of this post is so off for what its content actually is, which is outrage at the town, when the town is already moving onto something else at this point. On March 23 2013 05:44 Kenpachi wrote: BH mason'ed me but nothing important was said in it. I don't want to post it cause I did vent my rage at town last night but here it is. [spoiler=Logs]Blazinghand 03-21-2013 08:00 PM ET (US) Oh there it is. He thinks I'm pushing a scum agenda (unspecified) and that setup-wise it's unlikely town has 2 masons. 11 Blazinghand 03-21-2013 07:55 PM ET (US) Well he eventually realized the timestamps weren't adjusted for time zones so he retracted that argument. He said I'm a "wild card" for whether or not I'm scum now. I'll ask him. 10 K 03-21-2013 07:43 PM ET (US) or is it just because of the timestamps 9 K 03-21-2013 07:43 PM ET (US) Vivax thinks you're scum and I'm not entirely sure. can you fill me in on his reasons? 8 Blazinghand 03-21-2013 07:33 PM ET (US) This only lasts until daybreak So i had vivax down as scum until he made this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18089009 Basically he thought my mason logs were faked due to timestamps, and he called me out on it. He hadn't corrected for timezones so it looked like I posted a huge post in the QT at the same time as I did in the thread (within like a minute). I don't think scum would be trying to prove my logs were fake via timestamp since scum would know (or at least have no reason to doubt) my mason claim. Aside from that, he's played pretty scummy, but pushing a line of inquiry like that really relies on _believing_ your target is lying. It would have been a waste of time if he was scum, and he'd know that. GK, yeah not scum. Ace lynch was pretty shit but honestly it's just kicking a dead horse at this point. I don't even know what VE is doing any more, but this isn't the town VE I'm used to. I'll be pushing him more and voting him if I'm alive tomorrow. 7 K 03-21-2013 07:19 PM ET (US) Goodkarma, hes not scum. I believe Vivax could be mafia still but i am not sure at all 6 K 03-21-2013 07:18 PM ET (US) Mocsta is also a chaotic little fellow and he called me a troll so i dont like him by default 5 K 03-21-2013 07:18 PM ET (US) Reading the thread made me forget that you mentioned coag. i dont care! He's not interesting 4 K 03-21-2013 07:17 PM ET (US) how long does this mason last? If its only for the night cycle, poor choice cause I have an exam tomorrow lol. im annoyed how ace got lynched for no good reason. honestly, im really mad at this town. i think this town is a big pile of dogshit. im not allowed to say that in the thread though but seriously, ACE LYNCH? also, why were people taking DP seriously for the gk lynch? why didnt they counterattack DP? He's obviously fucking scum. So is Wiggles. Forget Vivax, these guys make it so obvious that theyre scum. Like, wtf? Also, i dont understand the craze about sciberbia. He has a good rep but honestly, i don't get good vibes from him at all. Although VE is a nulltell, i think a lynch on him would be much more crucial than some random lynch on Ace. He has barely played so far and he gets lynched without even being able to defend himself. WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN THIS TOWN??? 3 Blazinghand 03-21-2013 06:59 PM ET (US) Coag is almost certainly town. He's doing his best to pry apart bad arguments and pressure people for answers, even in his coag-ey way. 2 Blazinghand 03-21-2013 04:12 PM ET (US) so what's up you around or are we just being afk 1 Blazinghand 03-21-2013 01:20 PM ET (US) hello my gentle friend[/spoiler] This log is full of nothing but them pretty much saying to each other exactly what they say in the thread. Note that they don't ask each other any questions or interact at all. It strikes me as being very staged. On March 23 2013 06:06 Kenpachi wrote: I think i should organize myself for once. None of these should be surprising, they're pretty agreeable. Town testsubject### Teepeeshooter waveofshadow coagulation Mafia Wiggles DarthPunk zarepath (intuitive) My lynch vote for today is Mr. Wiggles. Why? simple, he feigned usefulness here and there and here some more. I posted about his chainlink of questions and in general, he is playing like mafioso wiggles. Is there anything else for me to say WAVEOFSHADOW? Notice how he put "Town" in red. Subconscious slip. Also, notice how all of his mafia are town (I have the benefit of knowing this for 100 percent, but hopefully I am an easy enough town read at this point for the rest of you for this to be as substantial a point from your perspective). [B]On March 23 2013 22:26 Kenpachi wrote: I fell asleep on you guys lol. I merely thought DarthPunk was scummy for his push on Goodkarma when goodkarma is one of the least scummiest players in the game at that point tbh. But since BH flipped scum and VE is likely town so I'm inclined to retract my claim off of him. Wasn't Kenpachi the one trying to boldly lynch GK? The rest of his filter is complaining about the town being so awful, and him mentioning how awful he is (I haven't read his filter at all lol, I was way off on that guy lol, etc.). This guy looks SCUM. Kitaman + Show Spoiler + Has been wrong on literally everyone he's wanted lynched. Not as certain here as I am about Kenpachi. Called CC both 3P and scum, and has framed today's discussion between glurio and layabout when both of them have gone after BH. DP called him scum and then immediately died. RyuSuzaku + Show Spoiler + [B]On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: well, that sucks. I was pretty convinced GM was scum given how suspicious he was acting. Pretty disappointing play from him, especially given his incredibly strong role. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. Town thinks, "darn, how did I misread that? Let me go check." Scum goes, "it was his own fault for playing so poorly. BTW, I'm town, and my reasons for lynching him were AWESOME." DP calls Ryu scum, gets killed. Has not been trying to find scum. Spends tons of times justifying his votes and zero time trying to find scum. I feel more certain about Ryu than I do Kitaman, but not as strongly as I do about Kenpachi. | ||
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And what do you think of my scum/town breakdown? Agreements/disagreements/people you're not as sure about? Other people not posting isn't a reason to not post yourself. | ||
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I'm the only person so far to post reads and this is town's last chance. | ||
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On March 29 2013 05:25 RyuSuzaku wrote: Well we can cross off Test, he's confirmed. I'm town too, that leaves 8 players. So the last scum are in these players IMO: TPS glurio geript Zarepath Given layabout's early posting, and the way both WoS and Kita post, I'm not convinced they are scum. They've all been relatively decent town reads for me. Your effort now redeems you a bit but given that it's only coming out when scum most probably will just win with a mislynch, I am not convinced you are town. So you think WoS isn't scum, but that the only fruit of his being a DT, a town read on TPS, is scum? In fact, at the top of your list? Can you explain that please, because that's a big token of evidence on his side. Also, geript really got into it with BH; geript was one of the first (if not the first) people to call BH scum. Why do you think a scummy geript would do that? | ||
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geript, when I talked about the Kitaman case, I meant CC's case on Kitaman. | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:12 zarepath wrote: SCUM kenpachi Disproportionate response to BH pushing a lynch (ie, false distancing from other scum): Buddying: Sheeps BH after fake distancing, two targets are both town flips: Crappy reason to vote for GM: Responds with: So he switches to a vote where he's not surprised he flipped town? Also note that he's not very comfortable NOT getting the limelight, and yet he's completely disappeared. Also note that this post is full of crap -- "mafia MUST be in here, but it's a hard group to figure out; btw, neither me or Ryu are mafia. But I'm having a hard time piecing information together. ALSO, I want to claim a medic protect because I am super town and scum know it." No drive to figure anything out, just to contribute without actually contributing anything. There is more energy spent trying to look like town, while also an awareness of HOW he looks TO town -- note the self-effacing "he's as invisible as I am." Why is he letting us all know how aware he is of his participation? Is it a proactive defense? His case on goodkarma, who flipped blue, is based entirely on the fact that he was a hot topic and that many players talked about him. There is literally no comment on GK's actual content, just on the fact that he was talked about by the town. It's like a sheep trying to re-start the herd so he can have something to follow again. And what's with this "boldly" crap? How about "intelligently" or "carefully" or "rationally?" It's a bad argument without substance trying to get people to lynch emotionally. I am voting Vivax but I want other people to check into his filter FOR me? What the heck is this? "wiggles was another hot topic for good reason." Why is he framing his reads in terms of how popular it was to talk about them? Also "Hes mafia every game." Isn't that just calling him mafia? Because the rest of this post doesn't look like he's calling him mafia, just warning town to pay attention to him. "lack of concern in Wiggles which makes me inclined to believe he is suspicious" that is a long train of mitigating phrases, leading to what is literally almost not a read at all. This is so fake. He called BH town and GK town (after pushing for a "bold" lynch of GK), but the majority of this post is simply trying to look pro-town WAY after the Ace lynch was old news. Fake outrage. The timing of this post is so off for what its content actually is, which is outrage at the town, when the town is already moving onto something else at this point. This log is full of nothing but them pretty much saying to each other exactly what they say in the thread. Note that they don't ask each other any questions or interact at all. It strikes me as being very staged. Notice how he put "Town" in red. Subconscious slip. Also, notice how all of his mafia are town (I have the benefit of knowing this for 100 percent, but hopefully I am an easy enough town read at this point for the rest of you for this to be as substantial a point from your perspective). Wasn't Kenpachi the one trying to boldly lynch GK? The rest of his filter is complaining about the town being so awful, and him mentioning how awful he is (I haven't read his filter at all lol, I was way off on that guy lol, etc.). This guy looks SCUM. | ||
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On March 29 2013 15:26 RyuSuzaku wrote: gonna vote zarepath. ##vote zarepath Why exactly? Because I think it's suspicious that the person calling you scum died? That's hardly a good enough reason to vote to lynch someone at LYLO, right? See, WoS made a big ol' case on me but is still at least trying to consider other evidence, such as my posting quality. You have just kind of OMGUSd me on the most important vote of the entire game without any evidence. | ||
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I am voting for glurio for the sake of consolidation -- he is the candidate my two biggest scum reads (kenpachi and ryu) aren't voting for and my biggest town reads (TPS and geript) are voting for. | ||
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I'm also concerned with how vehemently everyone went after me for being scum on day 1. I feel like that happens to me every game and I have to fight against the mislynch for the first two days and then most people have a town read on me. I just don't know what to talk about on day 1 -- all these vets are calling people scum willy-nilly based on stupid meta crap or one-liners that actually don't reveal anything, but I'm not allowed to look cautious or else people think I'm scum. It almost feels like I should just be a lurker on Day 1, because I am more of an analysis-type player than a pushing-type player, and I can't just push for the sake of pushing. I don't know. Looking forward to reading the Obs QT. It is too bad that so many people were modkilled this game. I think with the extra day that would have given us we could have latched onto some scum. But in the end it was my own fault -- sucks to not be killed until the very end and then be on the side of game-losing mislynch | ||
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['/['p/ v;/l | ||
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I wish I knew better what to do Day 1 as town. I never seem to be able to look town enough on day 1. | ||
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