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I love it. I've been rereading and started with D1 of course, keeping in mind who really wants Snarfs dead and who is the pretender. Here are some bullet point notes I wrote down as I've been rereading (bolded are things you pointed out):
- VE calls out scum Snarfs but doesn't push the lynch over Palmar's
- Oats joins along Snarfs lynch
- jay notices phagga missing. wants more info on Snarfs
- VE's initial list is palmar, prplhz, snarfs, JX. pushes prplhz for lurking
- Phagga said he would talk on Snarfs. Didn't.
- Oats switched back onto Snarfs
And that's up to page 30. What I've gotten so far is that if anyone is to get "town cred" for pushing Snarfs, it would be Oats, not VE (aside from CC of course, look at his entry post calling out phagga Snarfs Djo he is baws).
I recall from D2 him completely dismissing my phagga case by misconstruing it as meta, and his most recent posts where he once again shirks any responsibility for scumhunting, and seems more concerned in lynching "the least contributory townie" instead of finding and lynching scum. Right now by process of elimination coupled with some posts of his (like his "I think prplhz might be town" post out of nowhere) lead me to think he is indeed mafia.
I'll be reading more and updating as I go along.
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Ok everybody.
Top 2 scum reads.
And quick summary on why they are scum
If you dont do it, its a scum tell.
For me
Jay:
Scum.
He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all.
he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating.
Djo/Debears
Scum
Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced.
Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads.
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11589 Posts
Oats, comment on my VE case.
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Yeah I dont agree with it.
The lynchpin seems to be that he is pushing prp over snarfs.
The problem with that is EVERYBODY wanted to lynch Prp after day 2.
It seems very subjective....
Also half the stuff you are saying isnt really a scumtell, and you arent saying that its a scumtell. So its useless and just makes your 'case' confusing.
I think we should lynch slOosh to be safe today.
I have stronger townreads on CC and yamato, still null on slOosh.
So Yamato, Who are your strongest 2 scumreads?
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11589 Posts
The problem is how he pushes his reads, really.
Or really, how he doesn't.
The fact that he chose prplhz over Snarfs is really just icing on the cake.
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Wait, so if someone pushes town over scum, it means he is scum?
Walk it through for me.
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11589 Posts
On February 20 2013 16:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Wait, so if someone pushes town over scum, it means he is scum?
Walk it through for me.
It's only partly about WHO he chooses, though that is part of it.
When you look at the big picture, VE doesn't seem to be picking anyone for any particular reason. He's not pushing his reads, and his one claim to a town alignment is that he "pushed snarfs" when I've shown that he never actually did that.
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That seems to be bad play.
Now answer my fucking question.
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11589 Posts
On February 20 2013 16:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
That seems to be bad play.
Now answer my fucking question.
What question, my top 2 reads?
Why does it even matter that I give them to you on demand when I've handed them out like candy the whole fucking game, explanation and all?
No, I want to talk about VE. Why are you suddenly against his scumminess today when not too long ago you were arguing with me about my town read on him?
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Well VE pushed a lurker lynch hard at the beginning, saying that it would hurt the game.
He has been pretty consistent with that.
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11589 Posts
On February 20 2013 16:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well VE pushed a lurker lynch hard at the beginning, saying that it would hurt the game.
He has been pretty consistent with that.
Think about what you're saying.
"He's pushing policy lynching, and that's a stance."
No, it isn't.
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Finished rereading.
On February 20 2013 06:50 jaybrundage wrote:
New improved scum team (with help from CC)
VE, Phagga, Debears, Snarfs
We lynch systematically into them. And win the game.
I fully endorse this position and will be willing to vote into any one of these 3 players.
So town team of me, CC, yamato, Oats & jay - so at this point it's just convincing you guys that we are town and have to consolidate on them. If me flipping town today helps Oats see better, than I'm fine with that.
Oats: I'm going to do this two ways. One is why I'm probably town, and one is why VE is probably scum.
D1: I am voted with Mocsta and Palmar. Mocsta is pretty much established town. Palmar has a great reputation as a town player. Why would I put myself up as scum? How could I have known that Palmar would be sick all day? Because if Palmar chose to start contributing, then I would surely be dead.
With yamato's case, the issue at hand is that VE is claiming that he is town because of his pushing Snarfs, when in reality, he wasn't really pushing Snarfs, but just pretending to do so. That is what yamato is pointing out. Pushing town over scum isn't the point - pushing town over scum while claiming to be pushing the scum the whole time as justification of his towniness is the issue.
If you consequently observe VE's filter, there are 3 things that categorize his play.
1) Setup talk, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing
2) Focus on lurkers, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing
3) Hunting the "least useful" townie on even days, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing
When does VE try to push a scum lynch? You may think Snarfs, but as yamato shows, he really doesn't. VE has been pushing lurkers and least useful townies and that is all that he is interested in. He isn't truly scumhunting.
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Wait so why is Phagga and debears scum, and jay town?
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EBWOP:
I see yamato's point now.
VE any response?
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Also if you haven't done so, really try to do a reread with the flip knowledge. I think much of our confusion stems from the natural thought that D2 wasn't split between 2 scum (Snarfs and VE). Things I caught were
- jay, phagga and CC build yamato case
- yamato serious lynch possibility. what are VE / phagga / Snarfs doing?
- p 58~61: who cares about the lynch, who doesn't?
- phagga acknowledges Snarfs case, keeps on yamato, and then soon after drops it when no one else is on it
- phagga unvotes, but not to move it!!! There is unusual delay in his followup vote.
I really think jay is town at this point. He has been consistently involved in trying to figure out scum. He was one of the first to support the VE lynch and his posts surrounding the deadline felt really genuine (like the one where he was really upset I moved my vote). The biggest thing is that he came to the same conclusion of a scum team that I did before I clearly said anything. It shows real consistency. I highly don't recommend lynching him.
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On February 20 2013 16:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Wait so why is Phagga and debears scum, and jay town?
Without looking at filters, who has been very involved and participating in odd day lynches? Who has been looking at scum outside the nomination pool on even day lynches?
I'll pull out some of the phagga cases that I saw rereading - gimme a min,
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So you think my defence of phagga is wrong?
Sloosh.
Make your own reason and case as to why those 2 dudes are scum and Jay is town.
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slOosh's case on phagga. I've pointed out multiple times that it is not a meta case, as VE misconstrued it to be.
CC's case on phagga. Notice how he looks at different things and also comes to the same conclusion. When town players with different styles agree on scum for different reasons, it is good indicator that they are scum.
Mocsta's perspective on phagga. Read the several following posts afterward too.
slOosh's case on his voteswitch
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On February 20 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok everybody.
Top 2 scum reads.
And quick summary on why they are scum
If you dont do it, its a scum tell.
For me
Jay:
Scum.
He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all.
he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating.
Djo/Debears
Scum
Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced.
Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads.
I do care who is scum. Thats is why I wanted to nail VE so bad my number 1 scum read at the time. Sheeping off Palmar is a town trait silly XD. Also I left Yamato lynch after he supplied some good responses and I wanted to consolidate on one lynch. And I thought SlOosh had a good case on VE.
Meh your meta is your meta. I want to improve hell I even said that in the first post in the game, I admit that sometimes I can come of scummy. And my thoughts are hard to track. But this game I must of done something right as I haven't been mislynched yet and we are starting to hone in on the scum.
Also I had a scum read on Djo from day 1. And I also want to lynch debears. Soooo how about we just kill debears together :D
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Also on the topic of lynching scum I think we should kill VE first.
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EPT
