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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
And you comment on my town tell. Also I dont think the voteswitch is particularly scummy in its own right, I could imagine myself thinking like what if Im wrong, and snarfs is scum, low activity and all that jazz. What do you think about his explaination for it? Jay, why the fuck is Djo/debears and VE scum. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:02 Oatsmaster wrote: So you think my defence of phagga is wrong? Sloosh. Make your own reason and case as to why those 2 dudes are scum and Jay is town. Yes I disagree with your conclusions on phagga, as posted before. On February 20 2013 15:08 slOosh wrote: Without looking, can you tell me what phagga's town reads / scum reads are? The answer is, probably not (even if I check his filter it's kinda hard). @Oats - Snarfs also defended a Palmar lynch D1, - As scum you also fear going against the flow. Aka, his backing off of VE and yamato cases when they weren't getting support. - The posts you quote are almost a week old. What new content has he produced? Does it look like he has any scum reads, or does it look like he is making them as he goes along? In the process of a full reread (yes another one). Will post up huge thoughts hopefully within a couple hours time. The first point is that Snarfs (flipped scum) was also found defending Palmar. Why? Because it's an easy way to look good, and they were gonna get rid of him next cycle anyways. Pretend to contribute, pretend to look good especially when Palmar flips town. I think there are both town and scum motivations for defending Palmar, and therefore saying someone is town because they defended Palmar isn't that good (case in point Snarfs). I agree that as scum don't want to switch. But they also don't want to stick out like a sore thumb. Notice how phagga unvoted yamato when everyone else did, but how he didn't put any effort himself into figuring out if yamato was scum or not? You say "It doesnt look speculative like scum would just try to poke and prod, or sit on the scum read." concerning him going after yamato. Do you think he is giving valid reasons when he unvotes yamato or instead he is just going with the flow (since everyone else unvoted yamato and he doesn't want to stick out). As for the final post, just because scum don't take opportunities doesn't mean that they are scum. Not only that, it concerns an even day lynch, in which scum aren't nearly as scared since they aren't threatened. They can do whatever they want and pretend to look good, since it doesn't really matter which townie dies at the end. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Sloosh, those cases are like so old. And you comment on my town tell. Also I dont think the voteswitch is particularly scummy in its own right, I could imagine myself thinking like what if Im wrong, and snarfs is scum, low activity and all that jazz. What do you think about his explaination for it? Jay, why the fuck is Djo/debears and VE scum. Well just because the case is old doesn't make it invalid does it? Given that proper discussion of them weren't done due to other things coming up, I would think they are rehashing. Please comment on the cases and their contents if you could. The voteswitch is disturbing because it is clear from his filter that the decision should be really easy for him. If you open his filter and ctrl+f Snarfs, he mentions his name sure, but he rarely actually talks about what Snarfs' alignment may be. All I found was that Snarfs was a null tell. Contrast to his interaction and ultimate case. So phagga does an unnatural voteswitch off yamato. Why is it so hard for him to decide where to put his vote? There's no reason why he can't just park it on VE, who he built a giant case on and called scum, over Snarfs, who is just a mere null tell lurker. It's not like the vote is final. But he really hesitates. It's unnatural that a townie in his position would do that. You might say that it was because "what if Im wrong, and snarfs is scum, low activity and all that jazz" but his attitude and tone in his voteswitch indicates otherwise. On February 13 2013 07:55 phagga wrote: You know what, fuck it. ##unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Snarfs let's lynch the scummy lurker. If it still isn't clear, could you look into his filter and tally up questions vs. conclusions he makes concerning scum reads. How many scum reads does he have? Do you see someone who is honestly trying to figure out situations and reads, or someone who is just going along with the flow, asking questions to pretend to contribute, but never inputting his own original thoughts? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
OK Real quick 2 scum reads 2-3 line reasoning. OGOOGOGOGO | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Things might get busy so in case I can't later: ##Vote yamato. CC let me know how you feel about the situation. I'm considering voting myself today if it means helping Oats come aboard and assuming you guys can agree that jay isn't the lynch for tomorrow. Seriously, please don't lynch jay tomorrow. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:30 Oatsmaster wrote: I am concerned that you have confirmation bias sloosh. OK Real quick 2 scum reads 2-3 line reasoning. OGOOGOGOGO VE - actively misconstrued my case on phagga, doesn't scumhunt but instead worries more about lynching between townies, lies when he says he was on Snarfs and is trying to milk town cred from it. Also keeps pushing doubt on me saying "oh I see red flags in slOosh" while never actually making a real case. phagga - Doesn't scumhunt. End of story. Has backed out of every single scum read he has made. Keeps asking questions but never draws conclusions. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:34 slOosh wrote: Ok it's really late and time for bed. VE lynch and phagga lynch is what I'm looking at. debears is by process of elimination. Things might get busy so in case I can't later: ##Vote yamato. CC let me know how you feel about the situation. I'm considering voting myself today if it means helping Oats come aboard and assuming you guys can agree that jay isn't the lynch for tomorrow. Seriously, please don't lynch jay tomorrow. I want to take a hammer filled with your stupidity and beat you over the head with it. You haven't refuted any of my cases on jay, you haven't mentioned them, yet you totally disregard them and declare him town. How in the hell do you come to this conclusion? On February 20 2013 16:56 slOosh wrote: Also if you haven't done so, really try to do a reread with the flip knowledge. I think much of our confusion stems from the natural thought that D2 wasn't split between 2 scum (Snarfs and VE). Things I caught were - jay, phagga and CC build yamato case - yamato serious lynch possibility. what are VE / phagga / Snarfs doing? - p 58~61: who cares about the lynch, who doesn't? - phagga acknowledges Snarfs case, keeps on yamato, and then soon after drops it when no one else is on it - phagga unvotes, but not to move it!!! There is unusual delay in his followup vote. I really think jay is town at this point. He has been consistently involved in trying to figure out scum. He was one of the first to support the VE lynch and his posts surrounding the deadline felt really genuine (like the one where he was really upset I moved my vote). The biggest thing is that he came to the same conclusion of a scum team that I did before I clearly said anything. It shows real consistency. I highly don't recommend lynching him. This doesn't cut it. You can't just ignore everything that has been brought up about him. Also, how do my actions indicate I am scum? Do you believe like jay (who is scum btw), that I am scummy solely because of Djo? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Real quick 2 scum reads 2-3 line reasoning. GOGOGO | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On February 20 2013 09:18 jaybrundage wrote: I agree with your reads simply put. And I wouldnt even call it a real sheep dont forgot I was pushing Djo early on as scummy. Before anyone else even noticed him. I was actually on the VE wagon. And I reallllly wanted to lynch him. Also I been saying Phagga was scummy all game. Sooooo yea there's that. Anyway you say im likley town. And if we both agree on whos scum what's the problem You said that about 7 out of 13 people, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsP1hp8cIarUdGlZNGk4cF96Vll3QkdhVzVsT0ZNRFE&usp=sharing Also, you posted this list a few minutes before you posted the excel sheet, which also includes prplhz and Oats that are listed as town in your sheet. On February 12 2013 06:07 jaybrundage wrote: Ok here is my guess for the scum team :D first time doing this so be nice. VisceraEyes, Mr.Cheesecake, OatsMaster, Yamato77/prplhz So you called 9 out of 10 people scummy or scum on D3 in a timespan of 6 minutes (excluding Palmar and JX who had already flipped, and yourself). Good job. I guess you always have to keep your doors open as scum, right? I still want to lynch Jay. I feel confident about him being scum. I think that Cheese and Oats are town. I'm undecided about the rest. I think Yamato and debears are probably town, but that makes VE and sloosh scum with jay, which does not feel right. So I currently really wanna get rid of jay, and move on from there. Sloosh: Ok, VE and I are scum (according to your reads). Snarfs is scum. D3 there is a wagon on Snarfs and one on VE. According to you, I, as scum, switch from one wagon on a scum to another wagon on a scum in a completely unconvincing fashion after I had my vote on a townie. Are you really that dellusional to believe this? Hell, it was clear that I would get heat for that vote switch, are you seriously believing scum would take such a risk? For what gain? Reread how D3 ended, and imagine that VE and I are both scum. Does that behaviour make sense to you? I mean, it is obvious for everyone that I did not get town cred for that vote switch. So why would I do this if I, VE and snarfs are scum? Also, some stuff you bring up now against me is just plain ridicoulus. Want some examples? On February 20 2013 15:08 slOosh wrote: - As scum you also fear going against the flow. Aka, his backing off of VE and yamato cases when they weren't getting support. VE was one of the two major wagons D3, how is backing off of my case on him going against the flow? On February 20 2013 15:22 slOosh wrote: - jay notices phagga missing. wants more info on Snarfs That was in the middle of the night in my timezone (5.30 am if I translated it correctly). I had written a post about 6.5 hours earlier. Jay even did that a second time AGAIN when it was in the middle of the night in my timezone. If anything, that should tell you something about jay, not me. Most of the stuff you write by now is you looking for the scummiest interpretation of my action, ignoring that everything can be explained as town motivated as well. When I'm asking you questions or writing you back, you are mostly ignoring me. Unless someone else besides you wants my comments on the stuff you write about me, I'm done replying to it. Seeing how you are covering jay and ignoring debears request to debunk his case on jay too, you are the one who I see as the biggest liability for town. ##Vote Sloosh Sorry for the absence, lots of real life stuff came up this week. I will not be on too much today, but will hopefully find more time from tomorrow on again. I should be around for another hour or two. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:07 Oatsmaster wrote: So debears. Real quick 2 scum reads 2-3 line reasoning. GOGOGO Jay, of course, my reasoning in my filter You, Oats are second on my list. I found you town after your debate with Mocsta, but since then your play hasn't been such. stuff like this On February 20 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok everybody. Top 2 scum reads. And quick summary on why they are scum If you dont do it, its a scum tell. For me Jay: Scum. He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all. he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating. Djo/Debears Scum Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced. Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads. 1) You are using the play of a player who trolled with a RnG lynch, then afked after being worthless, when his scum meta is very active and invovled (Djo that is), as a scumread on me 2) "no convictions in his reads". That is a straight up lie + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 01:53 debears wrote: He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you.  not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIM If jay was town, he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". Oats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean On February 17 2013 02:01 debears wrote: If he was so sure VE was scum, why did he not provide analysis and reasoning that would persuade others that VE is scum? Why did he have to resort to screaming "OMG VE is scum!!!!!" Where is the logical, persuasive reasoning that a townie would provide to persuade people to his lynch? There wasn't any. There was just begging for people to not lynch scum (snarfs) and lynch VE instead On February 17 2013 02:16 debears wrote: Oats I have one more thing for you. I would also like input from others (not named Jay) on what I've wrote. What do you think about Jay's comments around the Palmar lynch? What does that post accomplish from each perspective by jay? Town - he is 99.999999% sure palmar is town. He wants to spread suspicion on everyone on the palmar wagon (even though not all the palmar wagon can be scum). He's pissed for people voting for a wagon that he was on for most of the day. He pissed because he came in with only 30 minutes left til lynch to suddenly argue for palmar What kind of town comes back 30 minutes before lynch, to suddenly switch his vote and then proceed to flame everyone about lynching a townie when he was on that townies wagon for most of the day before the flip? Scum - he knows palmar is town. He helps contribute to the palmar wagon. Then, with 30 minutes left he switches votes to act angry to look townie Bitching about a mislynch is in no way pro-town. Bitching about a mislynch when you do nothing to prevent that mislynch (coming in 30 minutes before and making two posts is not doing anything) is scummy as shit. On February 16 2013 15:00 debears wrote: Debears's fantastic snarf lynch vote analysis!!!!!!! Votecounts: + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 14:04 jaybrundage wrote: Vote Count Snarfs: Mr.Cheesecake, Yamato77, Yamato77: JayBrundage, Phagga, Mocsta, VisceraEyes: Snarfs, SlOosh Mr.Cheesecake: Prplhz, Prplhz: VisceraEyes, Oatsmaster Have not voted: Djodref, Oats did you vote CC today? On February 13 2013 07:08 jaybrundage wrote: Everybody has to die sometime Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (4): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (1): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, SlOosh, Mocsta, Jaybrundage Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have ~4h hours left until the end of the day. Phagga come to lynch VE with us scum is really trying to make this not happen. On February 13 2013 08:04 jaybrundage wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (5): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. SlOosh Has not voted You have ~3h hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 08:11 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (6): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have less than 3 hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 10:40 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (7): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (3): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have 20 minutes left until the end of the day. CheeseCake - Town Suspicious of snarfs since d1. Early vote on snarf - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17766828 Leaves open possibility of switching to Yamato ------> Never switches to Yamato Pushes the snarf lynch hard when VE lynch gains traction. Snarf was scum, CC risked everything, saying "lynch me if snarf is town". Yamato - Town The second vote on snarfs. Vote stayed on snarfs. Pushed snarfs very hard all day. VE - slight town VE switched onto Snarfs when he himself was at threat of getting lynched. So VE's vote is a null tell to me. However, Snarfs had been pushing VE since day 1. VE was snarf's only real scumread that he pursued aggressively. This tells me the VE is most likely town, unless they (if both town), planned on a double bus at the very beginning of the game. Also, his counter wagon gained a lot of traction fast over a snarfs wagon that had a lot more scum oriented content behind it. JayBrund - Scum+ Show Spoiler + Jay pushed Yamato at first, and then VE. The yamato push isn't scummy solely because he pushed yamato, it is also scummy because of the timing and the reasoning behind his push on yamato. Context: Here is jay's post on yamato + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Note that half his case is using palmar's words to justify his case, which isn't reasonable. Palmar himself said that his reads likely weren't great this game due to the fact he was behind on the game. Now, for the three or so parts where Jay actually writes something of his own. 1) Yamato's flip on Mocsta. Let's examine why Yamato flipped on his read on Mocsta Yamato's original case: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: QUOTE]On January 20 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote: It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22. I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad. Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate. Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently. This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote: @Sn0_Man I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote: Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph. You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote: Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh* Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet. zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity. [Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling] On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote: Oats, Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions. If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems. And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel. Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose? Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not. Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread. Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote: Wow. Thats it over the night shift. Oats u sound like sno_man. perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion. I think u should read what i posted to him. My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation. @oatsmaster Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote: VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released. My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult. I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices. I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know. Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game. I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. In this post, yamato essential states that Mocsta was fake contributing day 1, just calling out people for contribution and lurking, with tone similar to his scum meta. Also, he has a problem with Mocsta caring about his own appearance. However, why did yamato switch his read? + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote: I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me. With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch. Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution. I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me. I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. He realizes, "hey, mocsta has a scumread". The lack of mocsta's scumreads was a major basis of yamato's scum read on mocsta. Why wouldn't yamato switch his read upon realizing a major reason for mocsta being scum was wrong? 2) Being stubborn about a JX lynch d1 By the end of day1, yamato was stubborn on JX. However, Jay totally disregards the fact that yamato had commented with cases on yamato, phagga, and prplhz. Yamato had shown that he was actively trying to figure out the game, and had settled on JX for the lynch. 3) The case on snarfs He pretty much calls yamato's case on snarfs a pure lurker lynch. Yet he totally disregards what Yamato said, which imo was decent analysis of the situation Here are yamato's words on the snarfs vote: "Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today." This is in no way a pure lurker lynch suggestion. It's a vote based on the fact that someone didn't care about the lynch, which is usually a scumtell. 4) The timing of jay's case on yamato. Look at the timestamp of jay's case. Now look at the timestamp of when yamato voted snarfs. On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote: One heuristic that I find important to mention about the behavior of people around yesterday's lynch is simple activity. Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today. ##Vote Snarfs As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it. Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game. For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all. Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game. If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. 17 minutes after yamato votes snarfs, Jay magically has a case on him, based on palmar's reads and jay's bad/twisted reasoning. That, my friends, is scummy. Now, for Jay's vote on VE. Snarfs had pushed VE hard since the beginning of the game, and, not only did jay join the wagon, jay also freaked out when snarfs was getting lynched. But, the main problem was the timing of his voteswitch. After oats unvoted yamato, and yamato's lynch was losing steam, jay did not keep pushing yamato. Instead, Jay suddenly decides, "oh, i'll just join the VE wagon that suddenly popped up". What was his reasoning for VE being scum? On February 13 2013 06:58 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I love how divided the votes are It will make it so much easier to see scum movements later in the day. And actually the thing I wanted to talk to you about was changing the vote to VE today. But you did it earlier then I would of liked. I wanted to get more a read of VE and scum friends on if they would of killed Yamato instead of Snarfs instead. ##UnVote ##Vote VisceraEyes I looked thru the 3 pages before the VE vote, and guess what? Jay never made a case on VE, yet he saw him as "very likely scum". That's odd and scummy as shit, especially considering snarfs was scum and had pushed VE all game long. Suddenly, when snarfs is under heavy pressure, jay sees it fitting to vote yamato, who he made a big case on, and then unvote yamato for VE, whom he never made a case on. I have more i need to add in there. These are the clear reads I got from the day3 analysis I also find it curious how you still have a null read on sloosh On February 20 2013 16:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah I dont agree with it. The lynchpin seems to be that he is pushing prp over snarfs. The problem with that is EVERYBODY wanted to lynch Prp after day 2. It seems very subjective.... Also half the stuff you are saying isnt really a scumtell, and you arent saying that its a scumtell. So its useless and just makes your 'case' confusing. I think we should lynch slOosh to be safe today. I have stronger townreads on CC and yamato, still null on slOosh. So Yamato, Who are your strongest 2 scumreads? A null read at this point in the game is worthless. There is plenty of material to work off of. And, as the kicker, you want to lynch the strongest town player out of the 3 who are likely town | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Top 2 scumreads 2-3 lines. GOGOGOGO | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I strongly believe that CC and Yamato are town. And I dont think that about slOosh at all. At this point, looking at this game, I dont think that his reputation stands up. Which makes me think he is scum. On the other hand, he hasnt really done all the scummy stuff. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
1) You are using the play of a player who trolled with a RnG lynch, then afked after being worthless, when his scum meta is very active and invovled (Djo that is), as a scumread on me So his town meta is not active and involved? Meh, Im finding it difficult to find scum. Grr.. Ok Today I want to lynch slOosh. Tomorrow, I want to lynch Jay (In game days) After that, I will relook my reads in view of the flips. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: So his town meta is not active and involved? Meh, Im finding it difficult to find scum. Grr.. Ok Today I want to lynch slOosh. Tomorrow, I want to lynch Jay (In game days) After that, I will relook my reads in view of the flips. On February 20 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok everybody. Top 2 scum reads. And quick summary on why they are scum If you dont do it, its a scum tell. For me Jay: Scum. He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all. he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating. Djo/Debears Scum Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced. Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads. For someone who wants to lynch me for not having "conviction in my reads", you sure seem to be having trouble doing so. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I would lynch him before CC/Yamato/Phagga/Debears Actually I dont think you are scum now, I just got that feeling from reading through your filter. Apparently it is wrong. ##Vote: slOosh | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On February 21 2013 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Phagga Top 2 scumreads 2-3 lines. GOGOGOGO Jay: Not taking hard stances early on (into D3). Defending snarfs until the last moment. Awkward reaction after snarfs lynch. See debears case. Sloosh or VE. Currently it looks like Yamato is being lynched, and I'd guess he will flip town. Scum needs to set up a misslynch for tomorrow. Jay, Cheese, VE and Sloosh are all pushing me as possible misslynch. Jay is scum, Cheese is town, leaves either Sloosh or VE. VE: I don't like how he disappeared a few times in important moments (Check his activity around the prplhz lynch. goes of to improve his reads, promises feedback, never comes back. Or Mocsta: makes a case and votes Mocsta, disappears). His case on Mocsta was bad and felt scum motivated. Sloosh: His logic has been bad a few times as I pointed out, his recent "evidence" for me being scum is sometimes outright ridiculous, which he might try to use as a setup for a misslynch. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Oatsmaster, Jaybrundage, phagga Here's my theory. Check out jay's post regarding me. Notice how he's pushing this idea that I wasn't Nominated because I'm scum. It seems sound in theory, except that I haven't been at the pinnacle of my game this game - I defended phagga against slOosh, I defended Oatsmaster against Mocsta - I've been inadvertently playing for the scumteam all game. Why would they want to get rid of me? jaybrundage has been crying "best mislynch NA" all game, like he does every game these days...except, if that's the case, then why hasn't scum tried to mislynch him yet? Something to consider. He wanted me gone bad on D3, and like everyone, is (somehow) convinced that the D3 lynch was between 2 scum. You need only look around today at the state of town, two mislynches away from losing the game, to see that this CAN NOT have been the case. I think debears is onto something with his case on jaybrundage. I think jay is scum. Oatsmaster has been a little harder to read, mainly because I'm not familiar with his play. He's taking sheeping to a whole different level this game. Go read his filter - he has asked who he should lynch every cycle. I wrote him off as town early in the game based on his interactions with Mocsta, but if you look through his filter it's apparent that he hasn't done shit this game. And then out of nowhere today, I'm a scumread for him. I'm not buying it. This cycle was planned, and the plan was "discredit/setup VE for mislynch". phagga is the weakest of my reads after rereading - but after rereading I'm also of the opinion that the three Nominees are all town, leaving phagga in the "could be scum" demographic for me. I didn't like slOosh' case on him (for reasons I stated) but he's right in that phagga keeps backing down from his scumreads (though somehow I bet he's just fine with his read on me) and isn't doing any scumhunting. To me, tomorrow's lynch should be jaybrundage>Oatsmaster>phagga VE should not be lynched because VE is town. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
Plus, you're mafia. Hah. | ||
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