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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 24 2013 17:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also I'm damn lucky Palmar wasn't on his game - apparently marv had me pegged as red on D1 and I have no doubt that in full dress Palmar would have too...Palmar knows my play the better than most.
There was a lot wrong with your play on Day 1. Actually you improved markedly after Day 1. This is purely personal, but your very first post was suspicious. Go back to the last game on omgus.net and compare your opening post there, and you'll see what I mean.
Your entire push on Palmar was *extremely* suspicious. I can't remember details, but basically you kept saying/pushing things that I know a town VE doesn't believe in. You also wilfully ignored evidence presented to you by town, like Palmar's filter in Death Note. It was all very un-VE like.
Anyway, yamato was brilliant, and what makes his brilliance more impressive in my eyes is how he was so wrong on things earlier in the game. Being able to get off the wrong path is at least as hard as being right, so 2/2... very nice.
Mafia misplayed and/or gave up towards the end, which was disappointing. yamato could have been crowded out! debears chose a blatantly bad strategy where he completely all-ined on saving VE, when thread sentiment suggested VE was getting lynched. There was no need to donate another mafia with VE. Cheesecake also failed in cementing the advantage he gained from the Snarfs lynch. Certainly after the prplhz lynch mafia were in a good spot, but they failed to come up with a strategy to ensure the survival of one of their members, which is what they needed to do. I dunno. As mafia, I feel I'd have been able to come up with a winning plan at that stage; one of my best strengths as mafia is assessing game-state and making plans.
I still feel the game overall was somewhat town-favoured. Mafia outplayed town for large parts of this game, but town ended up winning because of the analysis of one dude, and of course the mafia's inability to kill him off. Like others mentioned, and something I also said in the QT early, 72 hours for the even-day lynches is really much too long. That's only 40% of the game you're having your choice of lynch, as opposed to 67% in normal games. Too much.
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So... there's something really wrong with me because everyone wants to lynch me D1 in every game......
Advice plszz
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Dunno man you looked townie enough and mislynches happen on d1.
It's a lot worse to get mislynched on d3.
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I once got mislynched on D9 or so... but that was a Greymist game.
Regarding the setup, I would propose to make the nomination Days 24/24 instead of 24/48. Additionally, it might be worth a shot to shorten the regular lynch days to 24 hours after the third day.
like this:
D1 48 hours
D2 24/24
D3 48 hours
D4 24/24
D5 24
D6 24/24
D7 24
and so on. The 48 hours period is nice on the first two odd days, but I felt after the fourth day, with the nomination phase and everything, the odd days could be shortened to 24 hours as well.
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Marvey baby you're gonna have to explain the difference between
Mafia, I'm fucking coming for you bros.
For I. Am. TOWN.
and
Guys I'm town. Rejoice!
...because I'm not seeing what you apparently think I should see.
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Obviously you need to link the image in your profile instead.
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If I do that I lose GM points. I value those above all other forms of imaginary currency.
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Mafia could have easily won this game at the end. Problem was, we all and especially myself, were tired of the game length and lost focus the last day. my original plan was to get the lynch between phagga and jay, and i had a good post prepared to do such that. But by the time i got around to the thread, everyone was accusing VE of foul treachery. Debears was hard defending and i was like... eh... shit just blew up. oh woe is me, a sad panda.
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To be fair, when aren't people crying foul treachery regarding VE?
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On February 25 2013 02:17 ObviousOne wrote:
To be fair, when aren't people crying foul treachery regarding VE?
QFT
But seriously though, it was my own fault for not putting in the effort required. That late in the game, it's CRUCIAL that you keep up the appearance of caring about finding scum, and at that point in the game I had just lost my spark. It wouldn't have taken much to get it back (for example, if yamato had been lynched instead of slOosh D6 UGH) but everyone's points on my lack of scumhunting and general indifference to town's agenda were perfectly valid and I recognize and acknowledge that fact.
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Oh btw Sloosh, what exactly WAS the reason that you switched your vote to Snarfs on D3?
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I believe I smoked him. 
I think he never actually read my case and when he did he found he agreed with it. At least that was the perception.
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Don't remember too well. I just know I wanted to lynch VE but I also missed a big chunk of D1. CC seemed like he cared about the lynch, I had red reads on you and prplhz and VE is a player that I've mislynched before (cf Normal Mini II). Toss in the lack of confidence from missing D1 and not having played a town game in a very very long time, and things just fell into place that way.
I don't think I actually ever read the case (I actually agreed with Snarf's D1 case much more but I forget why I dropped that). It was more of what other players were doing (CC, phagga, prplhz) than anything VE did in particular. It's not really that hard to sway me, but when I spearhead a lynch and the people who follow me can't support me when I'm hesitant, I lose even more confidence, which was probably why sheeping CC was so alluring, since he seemed confident.
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United States22154 Posts
Post game analysis of this by Wednesday night, either in audio form or in text form.
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11589 Posts
So with the setup, I talked some about it during the game in relation to mafia's options with the Nomination mechanic, the likelihoods of these possibilities, and town's counter-play to each situation, which was only useful if town figured out what was going on while it went on.
What's good about this setup is that it forces mafia to play proactively, as GMarshal said, because if you sit back for even a minute and town develops some cohesion, you can quickly lose the game. This is what I feel happened at the end of the game, I managed to get my shit together for long enough to rally town around me, and had some decent reads to go along with it. This easily could have been Palmar or Sloosh had they had more time, but the fact remains that mafia had to be ahead of the curve so to speak, instead of reactionary.
Another good point about the setup is that it forces town to truly scumhunt. There's no real way of confirming town in this setup, and there's no mechanic to rely on but your own ability to analyse the play of others, and that is where I managed to do well in this game. This, I feel, is the essence of real town play, and what I loved about playing in the game. There was nothing for me to worry about except for getting people's alignments correct, which I did over the long course of this game.
The bad thing for mafia about the setup, as was mentioned, was how long the game really was. Phagga, for instance, was a REALLY EASY mislynch for most of the game, but there at the end he put in some more effort and I saw the town in him, which was a big thing in the game. Because of the length of the game, it is significantly more difficult to keep up appearances, and it does give scummy-looking townies time to shape up. Also, the wealth of information I had to draw from in MYLO was huge, because of how long the game had gone on.
The time also hurts town somewhat, as there are some townies like Oats who only looked worse as the game went on. The worst thing for town with the setup, though, was the dawn phase, as anything done there could ONLY have helped mafia. Shortening or eliminating it might have helped the game be slightly more active and solved some of those problems.
As for town's overall play, I would definitely say that I had a difficult time getting a solid town read on some of you. Without meta, I think I would never have been able to figure out Oats, Jay, or Prplhz. Phagga, as I said, shaped up a lot at the end, but for most of the game he was quite easily mislynched. Sloosh and Palmar apparently had real time constraints early on, so while that hurt my early game, I think if both of them had lived I would have put Palmar with Sloosh as town in my reads. Mocsta played well throughout the game, no complaints there, his lynch D4 was bad but it was a product of the bus that happened the day before, heh.
Mafia's overall play was quite good. Snarfs played alright day 1, and if he had continued to seem interested in hunting mafia, I probably would not have been able to read him correctly. Djo was bad from the start, but debears played very well when he replaced in aside from his hard-defense of VE. VE's overall game was quite good D2-4, but I caught him mainly on what he did day 1, which Marv commented on as the worst day of his play.
Cheesecake played a decent scum game, but what I felt lacking from his play is a certain amount loudness that I associate with town CC that tipped me off to him early D3. He might have been able to win the game for mafia had he not been so non-committal about VE at MYLO and just lynched him. It was that indecisiveness that really clued me in to his alignment and had me filter-diving him for the case I posted here earlier.
As for my own play, I feel like it was very average. D1, as mentioned, I was completely wrong, and I was feeling quite good about the game. JX's flip to me was a small surprise, but I see now that I was quite wrong and tunneled at the time, so I realize my mistake there. D2 I had to know Palmar's alignment, because it would have bothered me for a while. D3 was the worst day for me in the game, and I had a noticeable lack of effort for a while after I managed to convince town I wasn't mafia. I do think VE's decision to call me town and not reaffirm people's suspicions was something that was unnecessary, but it did fool me, so what do I know.
D4 I barely read. My case on Mocsta was bad, and full of conspiracy theories, but his flip made me rethink the game a Bit. D5 should not have happened, and after Prplhz flipped town I immediately realized my mistake, and that's really where I gained the motivation to finish out the game. From D6 onwards the game came really easily to me and I was able to pick apart the team due to the bad parts of their play, which was largely day 1.
Overall, I struggled finding time to play at some parts, and at others I really just didn't feel all that motivated. I feel like it was dumb luck that I managed to figure the game out, but I can't deny I truly had a rush of exhilaration when I made that case on VE. This was the most fun mafia game I've played to date, and also the one I feel like I did the best in. I will definitely be joining the next iteration of Nomination Mafia, and hopefully by then it won't take me six ingame days to figure the game out. heh.
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On the setup for future iterations:
1 ) Dawn phase should be a silent X - hour period (12 hours maybe?) where scum choose who to nominate. The 24 hour talking period is pointless, as in game we largely chose to not do anything. Mostly it was just clutter. A silent period is good because it gives town the opportunity to scumhunt and analyze the lynch on their own, and scum a chance to sit back (or fake scumhunt their own).
2) The nomination - lynch phase should be 24 hours. It's between three people, one of whom is usually unlynchable. (See: Mocsta D2, myself D6). I don't think town needs the entire 48 hours to decide, imo.
What this does:
- Minimizes clutter in the thread
- Aligns the amount of time town has to discuss with a normal game (48 hour day phase, 24 hour nomination phase)
On scum play this game:
The rest of the scumteam and I weren't really on the same page. Snarfs bus was the best out of a bad situation. Snarfs was being an asshole D1 just bussing his scumbuddy (read the QT, VE was getting pissed off). I honestly think this was bad play. I realize he was afk for legit reasons, but he was one-faced and his play was not dynamic enough to fool town. Djo didn't play terribly -- he just was afk for like 2 phases or something. Debears <3 once he came in. VE was doing well, imo, but somehow people were just screaming scum at him and idk how or why.
On my play this game:
I liked it pretty much up until the final day. I tried to acheive some form of a plan in the QT, but I didn't flesh it out quite well. I think I needed to buddy VE earlier (And get him pseudo-confirmed town because some people really trusted me). Oats wanted to lynch Jay early and I could have played on that. My confirmation that Jay was town, imo, made the cases VE and Debears made worse. I think I could have pushed him for a lynch. My original plan was to get the lynch between Phagga and Jay.. and I think I kind of counteracted that by being all "lol jay town, phagga confirmed scum". I should have built cases on both of them -- I could have played better, but the game was lengthy and I peetered out.
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EPT
