EPTSwapping Oats for Gonzaw still wasn't a bad return @ all
Well done to everyone, GG Marv/Toad.
TL Mafia LIX - Page 212
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Swapping Oats for Gonzaw still wasn't a bad return @ all Well done to everyone, GG Marv/Toad. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Scum's day 1 was HORRIBLE. If we got gonzaw into sherrif, who knows how this game wouldve gone. Marv, why you be busting out the META and being 100% accurate? Except BKE that was hilarious. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You guys only needed 4 mislynches to win, and we needed to kill 3 scum before KP dropped. That basically meant that you could mislynch 4 times before we correctly lynched 3 times and you'd win, even though we needed 5 correct lynches to win. (unless you guys hit a hatter who bombed a scum ofc) Also it was possible for us to lose faster than that if you guys shot a hatter who had his bomb on a townie. Because we had no vigis and hatters aren't really that reliable we basically needed 5 correct lynches to win, so the lynches were a bit scum-favored. e: not to mention the THREE scum masons which you guys barely used, and the sole jack power that even town did not have. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
We had 2 guys that would just lurk and be confusing and thus have no town presence in Axle and Chezinu We had 2 guys that I thought would get caught early (because of their early posts and styles) in prplhz and Oats. And then we have me, someone who hasn't won a scum game in like a year. I'd say the scumteam was stacked for town in actuality  /G (I can't be arsed to change accounts, this is intentional) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 02 2013 11:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well, I'd say it wasn't "stacked" for scum regarding the scumteam itself. We had 2 guys that would just lurk and be confusing and thus have no town presence in Axle and Chezinu We had 2 guys that I thought would get caught early (because of their early posts and styles) in prplhz and Oats. And then we have me, someone who hasn't won a scum game in like a year. I'd say the scumteam was stacked for town in actuality /G (I can't be arsed to change accounts, this is intentional) uhh your argument doesn't make sense. You are lazy, therefore the scumteam wasn't stacked in terms of players? What? You had 3 vets and 2 newer players, and both newer players played far better as scum than most new scum play. In fact, they outlasted the 3 of you. Town didn't have any real power players aside from marv. Sandro was lazy as fuck and I'm terrible at town. Marv carried the game but you guys played so passively despite the cards being dealt in your favor. e: I had this convo with BC earlier, who was quite fond of saying you guys derped by playing so passively ^^ I think he wished he was in the game so that he could completely fuck over the d1 election and then ride the town to victory hahahaha | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
I assume something similar may have happened with Oats. As soon as I rolled scum, with the team I got, I concluded that bit from the above, thus knew we wouldn't last much. I was counting on Chezinu and Axle living until end-game, thus making them GFs, but oh well that didn't work. However it's not like you can say "Wow it was so easy for you guys to win wow you are such an idiots" or something. marv being a "power player" was the only thing town needed basically. Elect him mayor, and he lynches 2-4 scum by himself while everybody else shouts at his face. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
There are a lot of factors that if were ever so slightly different would have created a very different game. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
Just like maybe Bureaucracy wasn't in "town's favour" yet they stomped to a win anyways Why the hell does that have to happen only in games I'm scum in?  | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Now I need to match my town and scum styles together. But really well played Marv. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm sad to have been killed N1 | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
I played a silly game of mafia after a certain point because I figured the reason scum hadn't quit was because one of the elected was mafia, and therefor operated under the assumption that one or both may be. Hence my attack on Marv, and wanting Toad dead after I died. The fact that neither were is both a testament to the strength of town on Day 1 this game, and the overall weakness of mafia in the same time frame. What I also suspected was that one of the BGs must be mafia if neither had been shot, because there's no way mafia would give up both elected roles and both BGs and then not shoot any of them. I just happened to have them wrong when I was working on this piece of logic, because I thought Oats was town and debears the mafia. It's a weakness of my play, as town saw this game with my reads/opinions of Chez/Axle/Oats, that I give people who are playing unreadably too much credit. I must make more of an effort to get reads on them, despite the difficulty. Why I was wrong on Oats, I don't know. I thought I analysed some idiosyncrasies of his town play well, that he had tendencies that I thought wouldn't translate to his mafia play. I had a discussion with Marv on this while in mason chat, and what he brought up was something I didn't see in Oats' play this game but was definitely in his town game, which was that he is accusatory out of the gate as town, and not so this game. This is a town tell in general, but more importantly a tendency of Oats when he is town, which I should have seen stronger than I did. Overall, I think I'm still running into similar problems with my play. I'm getting caught up in conspiracy theories, and I'm playing highly emotional. For a good while after mid Day 1 and into mid Day 2, I had a run of playing some decent mafia. Everything else I did this game was pretty lackluster. My mason targets weren't bad, but I feel like I missed an opportunity to catch Chezinu day 1. What won town this game, aside from Marv's brilliance, was the fact that the mafia NKs were atrocious. JX and Djo were mislynches, not NKs. Me and Mocsta should have died N1, 100%, after both of us masoning Chezinu. The fact that we both communicated with Marv the next day, and gave our Chezinu logs allowed him, in part, to catch Chezinu. Killing us both before anyone in town knew who we were would have been perfect. Also, I think that mafia obviously derped in not getting anyone elected. The setup demanded such an action from the team, and while an obvious effort was made, the fact that it didn't happen was a huge blow to mafia's power this game. Furthermore, I think the decision to make Oats a BG was bad. While it helped stave off his lynch, it also made debears, and thus town's elected roles, unkillable targets if you didn't want to sacrifice Oats in the process. It would have been a better decision to gain intelligence on the BGs after N1 either through masoning or outright claiming, as happened this game, and then killing them N2 and getting to town's very strong elected positions in the following nights. As for town overall, I feel like players not named Bugs/Toad/Marv/Sandro need to look at how they played after D1 and reassess what their objective should be, myself included. There was a lot of nothing done this game by those players. A few of us managed to play pro-town enough to avoid mislynches, but there were enough question marks that a good mafia team could have taken advantage of and pulled out a win, even with both elected roles alive the whole game. Our claim to fame was realizing a good town leader when we saw one, which was enough to win this game, but isn't in most other non-mayor setups. I feel like I'm getting close to being a decent town player. I just need to get rid of my paranoia about town leaders. If someone has lynched mafia the whole game, there's no reason to doubt their towniness.  Sorry, Marv. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
Me and Mocsta should have died N1, 100% Huh, this is funny.... | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Why do you not kill them over 2 VTs that people wanted to lynch? Vivax, I can see. One of Bugs/Sandro, too, but to leave both of us alive for 2 whole cycles? Idk. Maybe it sounds a little self-centered to say I should have been shot, but come on. It's kind of ridiculous that we were alive for 3 cycles when we both masoned mafia D1. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
And also in the worst case scenario Oats was lynched, then we still can kill Five easier than if he had 2 town BGs. I knew I had more credibility than him, so I thought he'd get lynched before me in any scenario, so I'd get even more town cred for bussing him since D1. (although I guess you could read the QT for that lol) annul was supposedly D2's misslynch, but well when I woke up like 12 hours into D2 that was obviously not happening, nobody other than marv/wbg/etc gave a shit about leading the lynch, I was heavily suspected thus could not lead the annul lynch without basically confirming Oats as my scumbuddy, and the "town leaders" didn't really seem to care about annul and prefered either Oats or me, so the plan changed into killing Oats, then hopefully killing Five the next night, and then try to coast by with my town cred, with Axle and Chez lurking, and see what happens. Vivax kind of fucked that up Also if the kills were so attrocious I'd gladly hear recomendations on who other players we should have shot lol wbg? austin? Likely protected by both Toad and/or medics, so that's a no. yamato? Chez desperately wanted me to let yamato live since he was his "minion" and was doing his "bidding", which I thought meant he thought he could manipulate yamato in PMs or something to push our scum agenda. Mocsta? Well....that's the thing I won't explain from that post above ^ Vivax? Yes, I did initially plan killing him, until we saw he was like the 6th scum member, could have easily gotten misslynched just because he was pissing so many people off, and if he was a blue I thought he'd be a Vig or a Medic or Mad Hatter something so it wouldn't hurt us much keeping him alive So yeah, between all the remaining players, Jiexian and Djoref felt like the best choice. We thought of killing fuba because he seemed like a blue....but well he was not so whatever. | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
On February 02 2013 17:14 yamato77 wrote: It's confirmed blues only a mafia knew about, neither of which were very high on people's mafia lists. Why do you not kill them over 2 VTs that people wanted to lynch? Vivax, I can see. One of Bugs/Sandro, too, but to leave both of us alive for 2 whole cycles? Idk. Maybe it sounds a little self-centered to say I should have been shot, but come on. It's kind of ridiculous that we were alive for 3 cycles when we both masoned mafia D1. I can only speak for the N1 shot. Also, there were 3 reasons for not shooting you and/or Mocsta (I said so in the previous post but whatever): 1)Chezinu didn't want you dead. For that thing he was planning, which I assumed he could handle. 2)You were in contact with grush and we knew it. Had you leaked to grush you were masoned with Chez, then you+Mocsta dying and flipping mason would like confirm him as scum or something (I know because town would WIFOM themselves into thinking so, and grush would be like "yamato masoned Chez! Chez is mafia!" and town would derp and follow that WIFOM into lynching him). 3)That "unexplained" thing I mentioned before. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
If anything, he got Mocsta + Me to mason FT, which was partly his own undoing. Me masoning Marv was the best thing I did this game. During that time, for the most part, I played some decent mafia. Maybe he had some sort of plan, but after D1 I started ignoring his posts like I did Axle's. He was in a similar category to me at that time. Also, it should have been obvious from my N1 post that those 2 PMs were all I said to grush, lol. No one knew I was mason besides Chez until D2, and it didn't become common knowledge until D3. | ||
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