Town, please read this
Let me start with saying that if Marv is scum, he has played every dirty trick in the book. I said to Dandel at one point that I actually hoped we were wrong and that he was town, because I used to have respect for Marv and if he is scum playing this dirty, it is beyond reprehensible. However, Dandel replied that the same goes for either alignment and upon managing to get a little bit of sleep, I realize that Dandel is right: his personal attacks have been beyond reprehensible from either alignment. He has gone beyond the bounds of playing a fair game. He has pulled out every dirty trick in the debater's playbook: he is using appeals to emotion, ad hominem attacks and it feels more like an emotional war than a game.
So far, I had enjoyed playing mafia. Even when I put way too much time into a game, the attacks have not become personal. Even when I have stressed over the game, it has been stress of anticipation. It has remained a battle of wits and while sometimes arguments have gotten out of hand, I have never felt assaulted before. This game, I have not enjoyed. Marv's attacks on my personal playstyle have been unrelentless. He has not refuted the things I have said. He hasn't explained why the things he has done are explainable from a town point of view, he has simply claimed he's a better player and anything that would look like a scum argument for a lesser mortal is not a scumtell from the magical Marv. Therefore, anything Acro or Dandel says must be because they are stupid or bad (the attacks on Dandel have been even more personal and I am unsure how he coped with this). So, I decided that, rather than show that Marv is scum, I would show you my track record from the last two games I played as town (before that I played 2 scum games and before that, you could claim I was in fact bad, but now we're talking about my newbie game 6 months ago) and let you (particularly counting on Prom and H1 here) judge whether I am stupid or bad.
+ Show Spoiler [Acro not bad] +
Acme Mini Mafia:
D1: I pulled a silly stunt that got a townie lynched. Yet my read was that that townie was town. My preferred lynch was Promethelax, based 100% on prplhz's play and it was primarily a lurker lynch.
D2: Promethelax KNOWS what it is like to be on the bad side of a tunnel with me. Yet he argued his way out of it in two ways: first, he argued the points I had against him and showed why they were not scumtells. Second, he contributed actively as a town. Prom, I ask you, specifically, has Marv done either of these things this game? You are one of two players in this game who has played both of my previous games and should know me well enough that I can be argued out of a tunnel. I then argued back and forth a bit about who was scum, before pushing the lynch onto H1. H1 was scum that game.
D3: Drazak had essentially claimed scum on D2 and got lynched for it. Not my case, and everybody had noticed it, so not much chance of being on the wrong side of the lynch.
D4: I was killed by scum, but the case I made on risk.nuke at night got him lynched as the SK (I thought he was scum, but SK made sense too).
CT:
D1: election, so not much scumhunting.
D2: I tried to argue town out of lynching scum... and into lynching a different scum. In fact, I had tunnel view on a third scum for most of the day, but dropped it later in the game due to an utterly brilliant (crazy) claim.
D3,4,5: by now my D2 scumspect had a double red check on him (one by me), so easy lynch.
D6,7: argued for lynching another scum.
D8: lurker lynch on another scum (by now they were just lining up to be lynched).
D9: not my case, but sheeped syllo to another scum lynch.
D10: would have lynched another scum, but he derailed it onto a townie (while I was away for the weekend, I might add).
D11: argued actively to get D10 scum lynched.
D12: Lavos spawned, no more lynches.
Now both H1 and Prom were in this game. In fact, so was Marv. They should both be able to attest to me not being a bad player. I had my suspicions at one point or another of both Prom and H1 in this game. Yet a bit of arguing made me see the error: I am not beyond seeing reason if someone shows how his behaviour is townie and puts in a townie effort.
Now that may be the case, but maybe Acro is bad in this game! However: while Dandel and I are not the only ones to reach the conclusion that Xfire was scum on D1, we clearly did reach that conclusion. That puts us at 1/1 so far, which is clearly not a bad track record. Prom and Gonzaw, you may be right on your D1 scum too. However, for now I ask you to ALSO kill the scumspect of the guy with the track record of lynching scum. Even if he keeps getting derailed in flamewars and pointless arguments with that scumspect.
Which brings me back to this game. All I ask of you is that you sheep me on this one, single, case. It isn't even to the exclusion of Gonzaw's case: we can kill BOTH. Marv has not contributed this game. Below I will quote all the weird scum-motivated actions he has not answered to. I will not claim I am 100% certain, because that is stupid, but at this point I don't even have to be any more. All I need to convince you of is that there is a reasonable chance that Marv is scum. Today is our last chance of killing him. With 9 mana tomorrow, he can almost certainly cast Utopia Sprawl and similar land enchants to give him more mana, culminating in him discarding 8 or 9 cards, which will give him 24-27 more life than he has now. That puts him beyond the point where we can kill him, and this play is repeatable the day after. If your town read on him is wrong, he will not be killable.
If you believe Nova is scum, that is fine, you may be right. However, he is unkillable today. Unlike Suck, he can block one of the creatures attacking him, meaning that even if you were to have my Zombie support (which you do not), we cannot kill both Nova and Aperture today, unless Nova doesn't block (and if he doesn't block, then you already have your answer to whether he is scum or not). Same story for Rock. Please assist me in killing Suck today. I guarantee that if my tunnel has been wrong, we CAN kill both of them tomorrow. Just please kill Suck.
+ Show Spoiler [Suck is scum] +Marv's single most repeated defense is that when Marv is scummy he doesn't look scummy. To go back to burglars, when this was still all fun and games: this is like a burglar's fingerprints being all over a house. When he is brought in and confronted with the evidence, he says "but the fingerprints mean nothing, because when I burgle a house, I don't leave fingerprints". The fingerprints are there. Follow the evidence. Summary of the below: - SnB is playing to his scum meta. SnB replied that his scum meta is now also his town meta, because he doesn't care about mafia anymore. Fine. What we know for sure is that it's his scum meta.
- Marv ignores town tells of players. Now I understand that you all see red on Aperture, but that doesn't matter. It is a tell of Marv not caring about figuring out the game and only wanting to get players lynched.
- Marv aggrandizing stuff he has done to appear as if his contributions are bigger and more than they are.
- Marv claims we are scum pushing a mislynch (townies don't "push" mislynches) when there is one scum left. We are clearly trying our hardest to push one mislynch over a different mislynch?
- Marv thinks Rock is suspicious for not wanting to die for the town, but doesn't want to die for the town himself. Double standards? In fact, Marv had pretty much given up yesterday, until SnB came back and played a rather good hand. My guess is SnB came back and said "we can totally win this tomorrow". Suddenly Marv was back in the ring swinging
- Marv calling something suspicious, when it clearly cannot be suspicious.
Given that this is our last chance to stop Suck if he is scum, I hope you realize that this is enough evidence to warrant killing him, and not leaving him for tomorrow (when his deck explodes). On February 04 2013 21:19 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay. First this whole plan only has any chance of working if Xfire dies in the main phase, so lets make that happen. We currently just have Death Spark to help with that, but we'll use the Bazaar and if we draw something useful let you know. However, there is no reason not to blast Xfire with a healthy dose of 5 damage right now.
Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. Add this to the reasons he's scum: he is fairly active this game. Ask him a question about the mtg side of things and he will pop in and join the discussion. Ask him about mafia and he says nothing. He doesn't want to tell anybody about his reads and the two cases he made so far are both bad: one is on a confirmed town, the other on what looks to me to be very likely town. He is not pushing his cases or making new ones. In SSB I remember iGrok being very adamant about pushing his scum reads (and pushing his plan). They were completely wrong, but he was actively pushing them and appeared invested in the thread. This game iGrok's main contributions are that any time the thread goes seriously south, he's in the middle of it. Greymist I have nothing on. He came back from holiday and has, insofar as I can see, done nothing, except for his half of the stutters analysis. Why not advising Xfire doesn't make him town: if I were scum I would advise Xfire to blow shit up at the end of the attack phase (before damage resolution of course). This has 2 advantages: the first is that town might spend extra resources in killing you and the second is that you know exactly how much damage you need to prevent. The disadvantage is that town might blow up your creatures before you can blow shit up, meaning you might need to sac more lands.
Why Suck is scum You know what Suck's contribution to scumhunting has been this game? He has made a bad case against Nova. The combined forces of marv and snb have managed to do 1 thing: find a load of shit that is not indicative of alignment when looking at Nova. Marv has gone into full-on lurker mode. He is not pressuring anybody, despite actually being present for a lot of the game. SnB has done nothing. Even when absent, SnB as town phoneposts to say "dudes, I'm in England, don't lynch me because I don't have internet" and then gives a quick list of reads. As mafia, he straight up lurks (although he seems to have improved in WLIIA). Evidence: SSM and Caller - Remove Incognito. Now, would scum SnB have posted the plan for Xfire in the thread? Well, he told us: never assume your opponent is too stupid to not recognize the board possibilities. In this case a scum SnB expects town to already know what needed doing (blow up Xfire's shit and then just hope for the best). He didn't want to be forced to contribute to town by casting an enchant on Nova's land and thus told town the plan wouldn't work. This allowed him to follow his own plan and cast his own useful stuff. He also scored townie points for being the herald and noticing that shit. Marv flip flops on Xfire. He spends quite a bit of his time soft-defending Xfire. + Show Spoiler [Marv and Xfire] +Original stance on Xfire is to agree with the suspicions (my early D1 case and the followups). He doesn't add anything new, but says Xfire is "suspicious". Now, the rest: On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 04:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Yo S&B, what do you think of Xfire?
Do you still think CH is suspicious? Can you post a valid case instead of "he's too aggressive and self-centered, therefore is scum" ?
/G crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it.his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. At the time I just skipped over this post, and read it as being wrong. Now that we know xfire is scum, Marv is going on record here saying that xfire might be scum, but probably just wait to lynch him. Classic scum behaviour: wants the town credit when his mafia buddy flips, but wants to stall the lynch as long as possible. On January 31 2013 05:42 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 05:37 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well Suck, apparently this "lack of reasons" is explained by some IRL stuff.
I do want to wait to see what he pulls up, although I don't think it'll surprise me or anything.
Last game, he said "Kill Fulla, and maybe Zealos/Grey" on T1 and that's it regarding what he was pushing. I don't see much change in his "decisiveness" from there, can you point that out?
Also again, how does this change your read on Stutters and Crossfire?
/G Yeah, but here it's... Suck is scummy, maybe for this reason maybe not, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... In the last game he didn't have to promise future content, he was happy just to say "yeah kill these dudes". Here he feels the need to justify his absence and his read with future promises. My read on Stutters (slightly town) remains unchanged, and Crossfire seems less scummy for it. At least he made the effort to defend himself and make a case on someone, even though some of it was wrong, some of it was correct too - marvelbabe Huh? What does Stutters being town have to do with Xfire being town? Why randomly include the scumbuddy in this town read? On January 31 2013 06:18 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 31 2013 05:52 RockHydra wrote:On January 31 2013 05:33 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:@Rock: What do you think of Suck? You haven't mentioned them in that "thoughts" post of yours. Also again, if you had to choose, which one of Nova/Cross/Stutters is scum and why? Or if you think all 3 are town, explain to me why you think Cross is town On January 31 2013 05:06 Aperture Science wrote:
Basically there's two likely possible scumteams: hydra+maverick and hydra+hydra. in the previous sentence, which word appeared more, hydra or maverick? that what kind of player we should focus on to find scum. What's your "updated" read on Bin? What about the other hydras?
If you guys are going against Nova+Stutters/etc, remember: It's VERY unlikely 2 of them are scum. Thus, if you find Nova suspicious, you basically find Stutters and Crossfire like confirmed town. Same with the other 2. Thus, if you put suspicion on any of them, before spouting stuff in the thread (or rather before actively FoSing any of them), think about how that changes your read on Stutters/Crossfire, and see if it's consistent and you agree. If you think something is wrong, then better reconsider your initial push (unless you want to pressure the guy, which is fine I guess) I am suspicious of Crossfire, and I don't see any inconsistencies with my reads on Nova and Stutters, thus I'm slightly more confident in that read. A question! I'm going to ignore it first, because your statement that if nova is scummy that stutters/cross are almost confirmed town is of course non sense. If Nova is confirmed scum, then stutters and cross are just as likely as anyone else to be scum. It's obviously a figure of speech. Also if you think there is a scum between the hydra then what I said is true And why does that make you now answer my question about Suck? :/ Wut On January 31 2013 05:53 Stutters695 wrote:Back up. You guys post a lot. On January 31 2013 05:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Damn S&B, I don't know what to think of you
Marv gives me slight town feels with his attitude (attitude alone though, not his play, i.e lack of scumhunting and taking a strong position in town), but you gave me so many "bad" feelings dude.
Like you going against Nova up there, and having that "I don't give a fuck" attitude.
Let's start somewhere: Skim Nova's filter from the previous game. Do you still find him scummy? Do you agree with what I've said a few posts back?
/G So do you think that Marv is town based on that or do you think despite the attitude he is more scummy than town? Marv's "lazy" attitude gives me a slight town feeling, in the sense that he didn't seem to "push a scum agenda" and actively try to disrupt town and the like like I'd expect from scum marv. I'm not that sure about them to be honest, and I don't know if I should rely on that... On January 31 2013 05:57 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Where did I say he's "surely" scum? I think he has a pretty decent chance of being mafia, a higher chance than Crossfire indeed. Well, you made a gigantic case on him and concluded with "let's kill him". I'd think that's calling him surely scum. If you don't find multiple promises of future content without delivering to be scummy, given how close we are to the end of day 1, due to his 'irl' excuses, then there's not a lot i can do about that. You really believe him not following up with that "case" on yours is intentional? /G I take it from your attitude that you think Crossfire is 'surely' scum then, gonzaw? Town explanation: please clarify your stance. Scum explanation: mr. town leader, is it time to bus my scumbuddy? Would marv want that confirmation to make the decision? Finally something meta can help with. In Hero, Marv's stance on Adam is really non-committal. There's the "might be scum, but lets wait and see"... but then Palmar comes in, says Adam is scum and asks why Marv isn't voting for him. 2 pages later, he is (nothing of consequence happened in those 2 pages). Scum Marv does not just willy nilly bus his buddies, he needs to be sure he'll get town cred for doing so. On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness:
gonz/Prome - blates town
me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town
Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town
Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol)
Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested
Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum.
Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia
Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case
Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial.
Ta-da! Heading rather fast towards giving Xfire a town read AFTER the meta case. Is Marv really bad enough to not realize that the metas match 100%? On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 06:26 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 01 2013 06:25 Nova_Terra wrote:
Im here till main phase, if anyone needs me to answer something, shoot How bout you comment on the 2 cases that are currently dominating the game? I presume you are referring to the Aperture case and the Nova burgler case, yes? Discrediting the case on Xfire. Shortly after that Xfire claimed scum. No scumhunting. Stand-offish about Xfire. Fitting SnB's scum meta. There are still some things that I think point to a town Suck, but honestly, if we can kill both Aperture and Suck, I am 95% sure we'll hit at least 1 scum.
A quick blurb on why you should get your heads out of your asses regarding the CW-Xfire mutual bus thing. Xfire fucked up his sacrifice-defense. He screwed it up by taking out my Rootwalla and enchantment, instead of my Rootwalla and a Zombie. He took out what was probably the strongest card on the board FOR NO GOOD REASON (at least from a spot defense point of view). He was then forced to gimp himself even further to actually take out a zombie. This went WAY overboard on what was necessary to make it look like a two-way-bus and went straight into "I am doing as much damage as I possibly can to your board". I mean, Dandel and I talked it over in Skype and we reckoned a two-way-bus would have been a hilarious stunt, but it didn't actually happen. What happened was, we found scum and attacked him. Then he went nuts, claimed scum and fucked up the townie with the dangerous enchant. /Acro On February 05 2013 03:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Town Marv, in LIX, saw Stutters as town based on Stutters going along with a plan that would kill him. What would scum's reason be to go along with the plan? EXACTLY: to appear townie. Yet, he used Ockham's Razor and read Stutters as town. Correctly. Despite having him as a "possible scum" the whole game so far (until Toad pointed out that the voting was also strange for Stutters).
Town Marv, in LIX, saw Austin as town because he could have taken himself out of the mayoral election, yet didn't. What would scum's reason be to run against his scumbuddy? EXACTLY: to appear townie. Yet, he used Ockham's Razor and read Austin as town. Correctly. Despite Austin being (apparently) on the wrong side of lynches all game long.
Scum Marv is ignoring the same reasoning here in favour of saying Aperture is scum, because it will lynch a townie and probably prevent scum Marv from dying. Town Marv sees this kind of play and recognizes the townieness in it. Scum Marv doesn't want to admit that point, because he is next on the chopping block and needs more time.
Scum Marv must die for his sins. On February 05 2013 03:53 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 03:12 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
why does this feel like setting up mislynches :x Dat scumslip!There is 1 scum leftIf that scum is us, why push this lynch away from the easiest fucking mislynch in the world? If that scum is NOT US, we are clearly not (intentionally) setting up a mislynch. However, if that scum is scum Marv he would really really like you to think soKILL IT WITH FIRE. OR ZOMBIES. OR BEARS. IN FACT, ALL OF THOSE On February 05 2013 08:15 Clockwork Hydra wrote:We aren't town because we made a case on Xfire. We know he was acting super scummy and several people realized it. However, if you were to click on our filter and read a few of our posts, you would realize how much nonsense your allegation is. Also, we're not "milking the xfire case". We are trying to kill scum. PS. If you think "milking the xfire case" is scummy, we present scum Marv: Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 09:32 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On February 01 2013 09:28 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways, we can go hunting for the remaining scum
Who here thinks Aperture isn't the remaining scum?
Also, who thinks that CH/me/Rock/Bin could possibly be scum in any way possible (regarding what's happening with Xfire and previous interactions)? Please raise your hand.
/G Well Nova looks much better now, I'm happy to get off my Burgler tunnel, even if it was the best thing ever. CH obviously looks much better compared to my previous list because of the Crossfire stuff. This obviously leaves a really large line where CH has moved up a lot as well as Nova, and Crossfire moved down. The first thing I did in this game was agree that Crossfire was scummy and attack Aperture. I'm totes an MTG master. And he never even made a case on Xfire, just non-committally "agreed" to it. Taking credit for a scum lynch when you didn't do jack shit for it? Hell yeah, sign scum Marv up (this scumtell was brought to you by Dandel Ion, the best Ion). /Acro On February 05 2013 22:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Marv, what the hell do you want me to say to that: you look like scum, therefore you can't be? It's a non-sequitur. The case isn't based on meta, it's a case chaining together your scummy behaviour this game (the tiny bit of meta I invoked yesterday was to show that you're a good player, not to show you're scum). Your meta is not to look like scum as town either. You looked like town in CT. You looked like town in LIX. You don't look like town here. Saying that you're not playing anything like your scum meta is irrelevant when you're not playing anything like your town meta either.
/Acro On February 06 2013 07:13 Clockwork Hydra wrote:While you have calmed down today and seem resigned to your fate, you haven't done anything today to make me think you're town after playing like you have a mafia agenda all game (deliberately phrased carefully so as not to anger the rageMarv). You say it's because you were trolling and not trying, but that doesn't explain your hilariously bad case on Nova. It doesn't explain your refusal to give town credit to AS for accelerating Xfire's death when there was no reason to do it as scum. It doesn't explain why SnB is playing like his lurky scumself and not his insightful townself. Saying SnB is afk, when he is playing the game enough to drop by and play his enchantments, is not a valid reason. SnB dropped in once a day in SSM too (and flipped scum at the end of it). Saying you don't care about the game doesn't excuse you pushing targets for obviously bad reasons. /Acro On February 06 2013 08:06 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:10 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On February 06 2013 07:06 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Dude, in LIX the scum were like right in front of your eyes, and like half the townies were very apparent townies. You can't compare it to this game  Also of course it's not just not doing anything, it's all the shit that has been said about all of them. Not doing shit just prolongs that "null but want to kill him" read on them and doesn't convince anybody they are town. For instance, I'd say my Aperture case is valid, and you said it was strong, etc right? Well Aperture never defended himself against it, and (wait for it) he is not doing anything [dramatization]. That alone justifies my desire to just kill him. /G yeah, CH's defence of him was pretty bad. but there you go. i'm happy if you think CH is town and Stutters is town than town wins, that's what i've been wanting to hear from a non-looney for a while Here you express confidence in Gonzaw's belief that town will win. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:30 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Although I have to admit Rock's defensiveness about taking damage is odd Here you agree that wanting to live for the sake of living is not a particularly townie thing to do. Yet here: Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:54 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:
Because Prome/gonzaw explained we can kill other people today (people who could actually flip mafia) and I could still be killed off tomorrow if they're both town, which is just hunky dorey You express the desire to live despite earlier expressing confidence that town can do just fine without you. You know who wants to live for the sake of living? Scum does. If you are, in fact, town ( nobody should believe this), then you should rest in the happy knowledge that there is no way AS, Suck and Nova are all outlasting Stutters, Rock and me. Die like a happy townie, or as a fighting scum. What you SHOULD be doing as a townie is finding us the scum to kill instead of you. But no. You want to kill other people, regardless of their alignment. We kill scum Marv On February 06 2013 08:11 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 08:05 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Oh, how considerate of you, thanks
Anyways....ehm..
Clock, Nova used the exact same defense as Suck for ignoring my "case" against him, that he's "good as scum and sucks as town" (or whatever).
Does it mean Nova is as likely scum as Suck, more or less?
/G Suck is more scum. The defense is the same as marv's, but snb did his version of it, called "I'm bad as either alignment". So that makes him twice as scummy alone. Add to that that marv doesn't suck as town, so it's more lies. I dunno if nova is good as scum, if he's town this game, it doesn't look like a hard meta to copy tbh. Or he's delusional. Whatever. Not that that's even a big point. I prefer killing the scummy liar that suddenly has a weird interest in staying alive after doing a fake ragequit just yesterday. ~dandel On February 06 2013 09:01 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Marv, here's your lie. I myself wouldn't use the word lie, but you are definititely twisting the truth. Also thanks for making me go over the beginning of the game again, I found a GEMWhat you said: Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 09:32 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On February 01 2013 09:28 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways, we can go hunting for the remaining scum
Who here thinks Aperture isn't the remaining scum?
Also, who thinks that CH/me/Rock/Bin could possibly be scum in any way possible (regarding what's happening with Xfire and previous interactions)? Please raise your hand.
/G Well Nova looks much better now, I'm happy to get off my Burgler tunnel, even if it was the best thing ever. CH obviously looks much better compared to my previous list because of the Crossfire stuff. This obviously leaves a really large line where CH has moved up a lot as well as Nova, and Crossfire moved down. The first thing I did in this game was agree that Crossfire was scummy and attack Aperture. I'm totes an MTG master. What you did, in chronological order (and cutting out SnB's trolly savannah stuff). + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Thread entry. Note the bolded part. For the record, Dandel wasn't, he was stating the absolute fucking obvious. + Show Spoiler [Dandel's followup] +On January 29 2013 11:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Merely stating the truth. What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course. Also, you don't post much. What gives? ~dandel Irrelevant to the case On January 29 2013 11:49 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. Merely stating the truth. What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course. Also, you don't post much. What gives? ~dandel I haven't posted much because I literally found out the deck s&b submitted two hours ago. In case you aren't mafia, here's a pro-tip: don't tell mafia what to do to make you consider them as townies. It should be fucking obvious, but here I am saying it. On January 29 2013 11:58 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Clockwork, why are you so behemently trying to resist scumhunting? You berate me for "try-hard" at scumhunting...and you keep arguing about Mind Glow and how you want 20 2/2 skeletons and some shit. What the flying fuck? Where are you scumhunting? Specially when you just mention in your post that apparently "finding the scummy players" is a big issue against my plan. That was a bad post marv: On January 29 2013 11:38 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.
Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.
If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.
I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.
And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.
~dandel marv here. s&b has been hilariously absent of late and was supposed to teach me magic and hasn't. I plan to nag him though. In other news, why are you telling mafia how they might look more townie? I don't understand the motivation behind saying what I bolded at all. You're doing an awful lot of talking about what mafia should and will be doing. What does the bolded bit make you conclude? Does him saying how mafia would behave, but actually not behaving like it make him mafia or town? Neither perhaps? If so why did you decide to waste your post to point that out? It wasn't a bad post at all. It was a good post. It's not my fault if you're too stupid to comprehend this. The intentions behind my post were perfectly clear. I find it suspicious. Wait.. WHAT? Telling mafia what to do is suspicious? So telling mafia what to do makes you... mafia? Imagine that! Stop! Dandel! You are giving yourself ideas you would otherwise never have had! A badtell? Hell yes. If Dandel had actually been telling mafia a non-obvious thing they could do to make themselves look townie, this would be bad. But how is it suspicious? I'll tell you how: scum Marv didn't think this through, saw someone make a bad play and tried to cash in on it for some cheap scumhunting points. Now, on with what I was actually doing. The first thing you did in the thread was clearly not to "agree" with a crossfire case, because there wasn't even a crossfire case. The first thing you did was also not to attack Aperture, but rather to attack Clockwork. Lets continue. There's quite a bit more on the above little thing, and a load of fluff. Then come the second and third "things" he does in the thread: + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 12:15 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:07 RockHydra wrote:On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him. If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong. Perhaps, but at the moment he's the try-hardiest of us all. Are you suspicious of ThePoster marv, or just depressed about the level of play he's exhibiting? No, he seems to be posting too much to be mafia right now. I mean, he could be trying to take some weird control as mafia, but probably not. Second thing he does is give a town read on Poster. On January 30 2013 05:00 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 04:48 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 04:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.
@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?
/Acro Put it this way, Artanis didn't even really know we were hydraing until after the game started, and didn't know our hydra name (nor did I). Great, you're around. Find me some scum. All you've really done is make a really weak pressure post against us for "giving scum a recipe on looking townie" when you are better than that: it was blatantly obvious that going along with something that had gotten a "pro-town plan" stamp of approval could be used to gain town credit. Stating the obvious is not giving scum a recipe, it's stating the obvious. Your pressure was weaksauce and you spent like 5 posts arguing about it. You're better than that. Now stop playing LIX and pay attention here. Who's scum? /Acro well that attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, dear. what did you think of s&b's policy post? Ignores scumhunting in favour of deflection. Finally, the 4th thing he does is to agree with the Xfire case and "attack" AS (if this pressure can be called an attack): + Show Spoiler [post] +On January 30 2013 05:08 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:02 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
marv, do you agree with what I and CH posted about Crossfire?
I doubt keeping to discuss "policy posts" will do us any good, other than what has already been posted (for instance my commandments, you should read them).
/G Yeah, I can't add too much more to what's been said about Crossfire, I generally agree. I especially noted how Crossfire called himself a magic noob (like me) but then proceeded to wade in with some strange Magic waffle (unlike me). I'm also not sure whether iGrok is on menopause, or maybe mafia: Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote:On January 29 2013 10:10 BinOnFire wrote:On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote:
So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome.
Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. It's an investment for turn 3 - the details are on the last page, if you didn't catch them. What else would you be doing this turn, anyways? I'd be scumhunting.I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?) Given he said this, all he's done is shout at people. This post from Grey rubbed me the wrong way, although I'm not sure how warranted I am to think so: Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 03:47 Aperture Science wrote:
Still in Italy and can't post much. I'm trying to keep up and told iGrok to stop trolling. But that's kinda like telling cave Johnson to stop with the prerecord messages. Thats just how he usually starts.
I will be able to post normally again in about 3 days. It's good to finally play a themed game again.
-Grey Like, gosh guys, I'm so excited to be playing, except I can't play for another 3 days yet, so definitely keep me around till then guys, right? However, that thing he is so proud of? He recants the suspicion on his scumbuddy about 24 hours later: + Show Spoiler [xfire not scum] +On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 04:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Yo S&B, what do you think of Xfire?
Do you still think CH is suspicious? Can you post a valid case instead of "he's too aggressive and self-centered, therefore is scum" ?
/G crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. And THAT is his official opinion until Xfire claims scum. TLDR: claims he "agreed" with the Xfire case, whereas he actually spent the important part (attack phase, where we could actually do damage to scumspects) of T1 claiming Xfire was newbie town, not scum. Gem: telling mafia what to do is a badtell, not a scumtell. Marv is a veteran and knows that, yet he was suspicious of Dandel for "telling mafia what to do". That's because scum Marv wanted to quickly cash in on some bad play and discredit a townie in the process. Scum Marv must die/Acro Addendum to this last one: the post cited is by SnB, but Marv later in the day corroborates that he shares this opinion.
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