Parallel World Mafia: iGrok's Strange Land - Page 25

On December 16 2012 05:16 Blazinghand wrote:
I really really don't think we should lynch Risen today. I know some people don't like his posting but in my opinion he's got a town mindset. Follow me on a journey through his filter!

First, he immediately starts off with reads.(link). Poorly supported reads, but reads. He's not afraid to speak his mind. He calls out Yamato's plan for what it is, also (link) which scum Risen doesn't really have a motivation to do. His attack on me (link), misguided though it is, wouldn't be done by scum D1 when giving scumreads on people in this thread was uncommon. Why stick your neck out for no reason?

The biggest reason people dislike him right now is he had a scumread on Sandro. Although the reasoning for his scumread on Sandro and his scumread on me (that I changed my mind a lot) was bad, he was discussing it with the thread and actively changed his read on sandro and mementoss when he encountered new arguments and evidence.

In fact, it's more evidence for being town.

We're not lynching Risen today, whether he likes me or not, because he's been playing like a damn townie.






Although we can't assume Sandro's reads are correct, we CAN assume they're town-motivated, and reasonably well thought out, since it's Sandro. As a general rule I don't speculate about night kills because it's very WIFOM-ey but it can be done right. Sandro doesn't stick out to me as an unusual NK though since besides Palmar or Marv he's the best player here. I'll sit down with his filter and go over his thoughts on other players and see if I agree.

On December 16 2012 05:37 Palmar wrote:
Someone tell me who's scum pls.

On December 16 2012 05:34 Keirathi wrote:

I basically agree with you. Scum Risen (at least from the limited experience I've had with him), is much less confrontational and much more appeasing. Town Risen loves to OMGUS everyone who attacks him, as well.

I'm curious, though, BH: why do those qualities count for Risen being townie, but not for Yamato? I feel like he's been pretty much the same with his reads, his willingness to argue with people, etc etc.

On December 13 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
And as for Sandroba, I am disappointed that's player with reputation as a really good town player would be so shitty day1. You are almost as bad as Risen with your negative language but at least you seem cooperative when I ask you questions. So, do you honestly think Risen's play right now is scum because I definitely see zero town motivation in throwing around this much suspicion this early in the game on the most active players-

On December 13 2012 03:53 Risen wrote:


I think it's scummy to change his mind without either

1) Defending his own point of view
or
2) Giving an explanation for why he changed his mind on something that seems pretty important to me (not being able to lynch the swapped person)

On December 13 2012 12:43 yamato77 wrote:
Now if you think that's just "scum hunting" by a town player, then I disgaree. If a town player makes obviously ignorant posts about someone else just to provoke a response and calls it scum hunting, I'm going to call him an idiot. If a scum player did an equally stupid thing and tried to pass it off as an attempt at scum hunting, I would call him an idiot.

You defending him in this situation looks really stupid. If you give him a free pass for calling me scum on a false basis, then why are you so intent on defending him when I call him scum for being an idiot?

Makes no sense.

On December 13 2012 12:46 yamato77 wrote:
Looking back, this was a gigantic waste of time.

I should have just ignored Mementoss.

On December 12 2012 08:30 iGrok wrote:
Mafia have 1 factional KP each night they may use on any player in any world. They do not have to choose a player to carry this KP out. As such this KP cannot be tracked or roleblocked.

On December 16 2012 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:


It's not just about sharing reads or arguing with people, it's reacting to new information and formulating a case intended to convince people. Both Risen and Yamato have reads and argue, but these facts aren't inherently townie or scummy-- it's how they do it that is. Risen's first post in the game attacks me and gives a solid reason to do so. He always backs up his claims with solid scumhunting and throws his reads around freely.

On December 12 2012 13:39 Risen wrote:
Scum reads thus far are bh and Sandro. BH is classic useless presence and sandro said he would be lurking then didnt lurk. I'll be voting for myself.

##vote: Risen

On December 16 2012 06:32 Blazinghand wrote:
Yamato, like Risen, mentions Sandro. Unlike Risen, he doesn't really attack Sandro. He asks obtuse questions and tries to apply pressure without comitting.

And they react differently to being attacked. Risen mostly focuses on shoring up his case and addressing specific complaints:




whereas Yamato is more interested in attacking those who criticize him:



and backs down when the pressure is on



rather than try to shore up his case. He's more interested in looking like a case-maker than in actually convincing people. The shitfest with Memen and subsequent "oh this is a waste of time" is a clever way to opt out of the town discourse.

On December 05 2012 04:37 yamato77 wrote:
The play doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. You'll just WIFOM me to death anyway.

On December 16 2012 07:44 Keirathi wrote:

He did?



I don't see any solid reasoning in there. I see a useless statement that means nothing.



You still haven't demonstrated why that isn't something a town yamato would do.

See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17130658

Start at that post, then read the next page and a half. He has a big argument with MrCheesecake, constantly pointing out how CC's opinions seem mafia-motivated, then ends it with:



Basically exactly the same thing he did here. In fact, read his entire filter from that game. The fact htat you still haven't done it and are pushing him as scum is just boggling to me. Why are you half-assing it so much? Hell, you could probably make a stronger case that I'm scum than this piece of shit about him that is so easily debunked if you just bothered to do any kind of research.

On December 16 2012 07:50 Blazinghand wrote:
It's not the length of a filter, but its quality that is important. Risen has given risenable explanations for his reads and has discussed them and attempted to refine them. He's been open-minded about his less clear reads and more strident with his solid reads. This is town play, even if it's town play that isn't crushing the thread under a thousand posts, and it's how Risen plays town, too, in my experience. We are not lynching Risen today.



I didn't say he wrote a 5-paragraph essay-- but his reasoning is fine. Him being wrong and him using the wrong processes are different things. Just because Risen didn't like Sandro and was brief about it does NOT make Risen scum. The way he developed his reads and interact with the thread tell me he's town, and they'd tell you that too if you read ANY of his games or hell, even read his filter. It's a town mindset.

I've learned from my most recent games that my ability to make meta cases on players who I haven't played with before is sharply limited. Take a look at my two most recent games and tell me with a straight face that my strength is in making meta cases.