Hi everyone, I'm HeloKnight, and I changed my name solely for the purpose of confusing you all.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII
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Hi everyone, I'm HeloKnight, and I changed my name solely for the purpose of confusing you all. | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: wow Marv. You need to edit your quoted passage there buddy. Don talk about ongoing games. You rule breaker. You need to edit YOUR quoted passage there, buddy. | ||
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Anyway, Mocsta: 1) I don't really want to discuss policy lynching since it defeats the purpose, but we as a town need to be hard on lurkers this game. Last game had some painful lurking (from my comfortable obs perspective) and that was a main reason that the town lost. You don't have to spam up the thread all day, but you do need to give your thoughts/reads/comments often. 2) Pretty sure it's 3 mafia. OP doesn't say anything but the other Newbie games with 13 players all had 3 and anything else is just unbalanced. 3) Not sure, shrimp are good though. | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:16 Mocsta wrote: @chromatically hi. Its 7.15 here. Im on bus to work :-) So. How do u think 3 mafia would go about infiltrating us? & Speaking of policies what is your take on lynch all liars? . *tips hat* Basically, townies should not lie and I have no problem lynching anyone who is lying; In a more advanced game, there might be times that lying is acceptable as town, but it is not needed in this game. Townies, don't lie. What do you mean by "how they would go about infiltrating us"? They're going to act as townie as possible without actually contributing. From experience (XXXI), I wouldn't expect them to offer any controversial opinions because it really is nerve-wracking to be put under suspicion as scum. IMO, end of day votecounts are the best form of evidence against scum. | ||
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My only game: Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI as Mafia Framer. I have an extensive amount of obs experience though, so I'm practically a vet by now. | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:42 threesr wrote: I like lurking because a lot of the time its hard to know what to say. Obviously it doesn't benefit the town but I don't think it hurts the town that much also. It benefits the scum because it makes it easier for them to blend in but good players should still be able to find the mafia even with lurkers. I can understand "not knowing what to say", but do you agree that providing your opinions on other players and justifying your vote are necessary? Also, what timezone are you in? | ||
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On December 19 2012 09:33 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm PST, my only other experience with Mafia is playing the SC2 mod so I guess we will see if any of those skills translate to this. Do you think that lurking is acceptable as town? Do you think that lying is acceptable as town? | ||
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Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? | ||
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With regards to vote counts, I meant more of just looking at the general votecount again, after knowing the lynched player's alignment. For instance, in XXXII, town lynched mafia d1 with only 2 people not voting for him (IIRC). Town should have been able to discern that one of those two was almost certainly scum and win the game from there. If someone ends up flipping town, we can look at who the competing wagon was, who was pushing one lynch over the other, who didn't seem to care about the lynch, etc. and get a lot of useful information. This is also why the d1 lynch is so hard, of course. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:09 Mocsta wrote: @Sylencia I appreciate that you are busy today. At some stage in the game, all of us will be in the same situation. For me personally though, this does not make you void from a vote. For the time being ##fos:Sylencia I will re-consider once I have read more comments from yourself. Is there a particular reason you find Syl more suspicious than others who have only posted once? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 10:43 Chromatically wrote: So are you saying that lurking is more acceptable towards the beginning of the game? Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:37 Chromatically wrote: Also, if anyone here has any past games on this forum or others, it would be appreciated if you could link those here now. My only game: Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI as Mafia Framer. I have an extensive amount of obs experience though, so I'm practically a vet by now. | ||
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First, he comes in to the thread without answering the questions that everyone else was answering. Corazon, why didn't you answer those questions or at least provide your opinions on policy? Then, after I ask him specifically some questions, he answered with: On December 19 2012 10:24 cDgCorazon wrote: I think it should be handled on a case to case basis when it comes to lurking. Sometimes it helps when someone just sits back and tries to figure things out instead of discussing every point. If it comes towards the end of the game, maybe the lurker needs to come out of the shadows. However, lying as town is basically team-killing, especially if it gets another townie lynched. However there can be certain circumstances where lying can get a mafia member to lose focus and say something stupid. Thanks for pressing me for an answer I guess, just curious as to why you needed an answer from me =/ His answers here are very noncommittal and he doesn't take a stand (ex: could argue later that he thinks a scumbuddy's lurking is fine). The bolded line what really struck me as odd, though. He gets pretty defensive over me asking him the same questions that everyone else was answering. After I keep asking him questions: On December 19 2012 12:17 cDgCorazon wrote: When I said "lose focus", I meant as in like trying to come out and saying something that would out them as mafia. I admit that it doesn't sound right when I say it, but of course this is my first time on TL Mafia, and it's all theorycrafting for me. He is clearly uncomfortable when I ask him to simply clarify what he meant in his earlier post. He also plays the noob card: "hey guys, I don't know anything, I'm just a noob, don't mind me." He seems generally uncomfortable in the thread with basic questions, something I would expect from a first-time scummer. ##Vote: cDgCorazon | ||
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You've said why shz's vote on you is weak, and I agree, but why does it make him scum? What is his scum motivation? | ||
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Comments on Corazon? | ||
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On Corazon, I'm focusing more on his defensiveness and excuse-making as reasons for why he is scum. Do you agree that the things I have highlighted in his posts are more likely coming from mafia? | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:22 Mocsta wrote: Im dead regardless. End of Night 1, I suspect I will be shot. Hopefully we have a medic that likes me *sigh* Is there a particular reason you posted this? | ||
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On December 20 2012 01:21 Mocsta wrote: Yeah, I thought it was pretty clean cut. Perhaps not. Based on the current status quo, I think its reasonable to assume I will be mafia killed Night 1, unless given some form of protection? I was not asking for a medic to step forward, and will not ask them to step forward. [If exists] Asking for protection this early is not town motivated. Blues can decide what to do by themselves. | ||
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Could you elaborate? Do you think my points against him are invalid? I don't like dragging answers out of you like this. | ||
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I also don't really feel scum from threesr either, for some of the same reasons. He's said things that draw attention to himself unnecessarily and is at least posting often (if not very helpfully). Possibility of scum, but not someone we should lynch today. | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:47 FatChunk wrote: [b]@threesr[b] In a game where opinion and discussion are encouraged, you seem to be quite reluctant to contribute. Your respones to questions are often dodged or ill-presented out of laziness, and I think this is not acceptable. You have to be able to develop your reasoning, and the type of posts you create paint a picture of someone trying to get the attention off himself. My attempt to be consistent is important because as town we need to structurally build arguments and if those compounding arguments contradict one another, we cannot make a logical FoS or lynch. Without consistency, why did we discuss policy on LAL and lurking? My opinion on corazon is the following: he's relatively new to the game and any form of aggression toward him will be met with a stiff upper lip. I know this because I am new to the game too. Thus my read on him is questionable at best. My read for threesr stands as per my previous posts and is only amlipified by his recent comments. Mocsta's decision to confirm threesr as scum was a little bit hasty and agressive in my eyes, yet also I don't think that mafia would come out so early as to present a confirmed scum. Thus I lean against the vote for Mocsta, and toward lurkers (Sylencia, aquanim, OrangeRemi?) and threesr as a possible lynch. Why is Corazon different from everyone else? You say that he's relatively new, but he's just as new as OrangeRemi or threesr (basically, modkills don't count). Yet you don't have any problem lynching those people, just you don't want to lynch Corazon. You also say that you want to lynch lurkers, but don't include Corazon in that list. Why? | ||
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You talk about head-hunting as if it's a bad thing. It's not. This is a game of head-hunting. If no one hunts, then we don't lynch mafia and we lose. Why does Aqua's vote on you make you think that he's mafia? Who do you think are the scummiest people right now? | ||
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On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote: Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. No need to get all angry and defensive (unless you're scum). Now that Corazon has posted more, how do you feel about him? And does anyone else think that the red wording is really weird? | ||
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Corazon Corazon's first post in the thread is odd in that it ignores the questions that everyone else is answering. As a townie, why would you completely ignore the discussion going on and the questions asked to all players? You wouldn't. As scum, however, you might do this to lie low or just because you are nervous as a first-time scum player. On December 19 2012 10:24 cDgCorazon wrote: I think it should be handled on a case to case basis when it comes to lurking. Sometimes it helps when someone just sits back and tries to figure things out instead of discussing every point. If it comes towards the end of the game, maybe the lurker needs to come out of the shadows. However, lying as town is basically team-killing, especially if it gets another townie lynched. However there can be certain circumstances where lying can get a mafia member to lose focus and say something stupid. Thanks for pressing me for an answer I guess, just curious as to why you needed an answer from me =/ After I ask him the questions specifically, he reacts like scum would- surprised and defensive. Town Corazon would realize that I'm simply asking the questions that everyone else had answered to him, but instead he wonders "why I needed an answer from him". This shows a mafia mindset: he views what I'm doing as 'pressure' and is surprised that I am 'pressuring' him out of all people because he knows that he is guilty. On December 19 2012 12:17 cDgCorazon wrote: When I said "lose focus", I meant as in like trying to come out and saying something that would out them as mafia. I admit that it doesn't sound right when I say it, but of course this is my first time on TL Mafia, and it's all theorycrafting for me. He also preemptively defends himself with "the newbie card". This again shows a mafia mindset. He knows that he's guilty, and he thinks that I suspect him, so he tries to defend himself by saying "I'm just a noob" before I even put any real pressure on him. On December 20 2012 05:18 cDgCorazon wrote: Good to know what I go to sleep and when I wake up and finish school my head is on the chopping block. Lovely. If you guys want a better answer to question number 2, you're not going to find it from me. This is my first game of Mafia on TL, and I'm still not sure of the strategies that scum would use to infiltrate the town. If I had to say anything, it would just be acting like the townies, but more cautious of accusations and trying to stay just enough out of the spotlight where they can be an influence on the game, but won't attract too much attention from the town. I've never been one to jump to conclusions, and to vote someone out on Day 1 just by character analysis sounds like a really silly idea to me. I was going to push for a no-lynch vote, but unfortunately when you're being head-hunted, you need to fight back. For this reason: Vote##: Aquanim He was the first one to start the campaign to lynch me, even when there are people who haven't posted at all. If he's already jumping on me, which one of you will be next if you lynch me? He started an environment of head-hunting that is just going to lead to more town lynches, and ultimately a scum victory. Sorry bud, it's self-defense. This post, his first one after his inital opening posts, is a blatant OMGUS. His "self-defense" justification is total BS. Voting someone does not defend you in any way at all. Corazon is looking for any way to park his vote on a lurker that he thinks is an easy mislynch. On December 20 2012 06:43 cDgCorazon wrote: Are you really going to try to use that as a basis of lynching me? It's a weak argument, you're just hoping to get a lucky lynch so the scum have one less person to worry about. Even if you aren't scum, you are toxic to this town and should be lynched. Soon after, Corazon of course switches over to another easy mislynch, threesr. A big component of his justification for voting threesr is simply that he's making sarcastic replies: not a scum trait. In this quote, he blatantly says that he is fine lynching a townie. Literally what is said: "Even if you aren't scum, you ... should be lynched." Townies do NOT want to lynch other townies. Ever. This shows yet again a scum mindset from Corazon; he looks for any excuse to justify his vote on threesr and push the wagon along. I'd also just like to point out how he starts off being strongly against "head-hunting" but then soon aggressively attacks threesr. He is now "head-hunting" of the same d1 posts that he was initially opposed to using. FatChunk All of FatChunk's posting is limited to two categories: either useless fluff about "atmospheres for scum to thrive" or responses to direct questions asked of him. He has long posts, but most of it is mindless drivel about nothing. Why? Because he wants to look like he's contributing without doing any actual scumhunting. On December 19 2012 22:44 FatChunk wrote: I see your point regarding the reason for lurking. Upon reflection, I agree that lurking should be discouraged and if apparent, you will be questioned and proded. I think its very simple, as Mocsta said: lurking is not a free pas to fly under the radar. I also agree with Kickstart regarding lynching scum leads of randomly lynching lurkers. This, I feel, is obvious. As far as I understand an environment where mafia thrive is that of uncertainty, confusion. An environment which contains people who have split views, people that are not confident in their stance and can be swayed by logic, reason, should the situation call for it. Threesr did a good job of contradicting views regarding lurking, diverting town chat paths, and the town seems to be talking a little bit but we are dancing around constructive discussion (not to mention the fact that Threesr has been quite inactive recently). Perhaps this is scum behaviour. I understand policies on LAL and lurking needs to be discussed, and most of the tough thinking will come when it`s time to vote by ultimately making a read. This makes it really important to present strong arguments when it comes to FoS because others will base their arguments upon the information you present. I think we should be asking ourselves a few questions (whether to find scum or to eliminate uselss town), who is contributing constructively to discussion and who is simply causing the town to get hung up on lesser-than-top-priority thoughts and ideas. Top priorities, to me, are: establishing a wagon using a strong argument, reading into feedback and responses after suspicion has been vocalized, and developing an opinion (certainties are non-existen in this game, right?). The town atmosphere seems to be good so far and this is good for finding scum: perhaps we should start prodding the lurkers and advocates of lurking. I say this because inactivity seems to be common, and as we have all agreed, uncontributing town is useless and detrimental to town goals, whether they are mafia or town. My read is currently for Threesr, but am open to discussion. Would liek to hear more from him regarding lurking and why HE thinks it can be benificial for town to allow. ##Vote: theesr His vote post, prefaced with a lot of fluff to hide the lack of content, provides no real justification for voting threesr. He's just looking for an excuse to park his vote on the least controversial player to lynch at that time. Mafia motivation is of course to push what I see as the easy mislynch of a generally not liked townie. On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote: Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. So I ask him a few questions about his reads, and he responds with this. Read that last paragraph. There is absolutely NO reason that a town FC should be taking my questions this personally. He responds to my reasonable questioning very sarcastically and defensively: something a town player would have no reason to do. As scum however, FC is getting nervous and tries to throw off my questioning aggressively. On December 20 2012 07:38 FatChunk wrote: You think my reasoning is weak? Let me fix this. Your answer to the question, "why should lurkers be allowed?" was: That doesn't seem to be a strong argument, yet you constantly refer to yourself as having answered all questions directed towards you. You agree that lurking obviously hurts the town, then you GUESS that it MAY help the town. In my opinion, it's not worth the risk, especially in a game of noobs where posting mafia will make mistakes. When you decide on lurking policy, you do it to pull lurking townies out of the shadows so they can contribute in any way they can, and mafia so they can make mistakes. Then you proceed to FoS Mocsta because he's trying to be "moderator" (your logic is that if town talks too much, they're mafia, and if lurkers lurk, they MAY be town?), Vote Mocsta, unvote mocsta, vote me, unvote me, vote corazon, unvote corazon, vote me, etc. What does this accomplish apart from chaos, confusion? And how can you educatedly possibly change your vote 3 times within... 2 hours (I may be exaggerating)? If theesr isnt mafia, then at least hes not helpful as a townie. These are a couple of reasons for my vote. I would be happy to reconsider if you give explanations to divert my suspicion. And of course, FatChunk is also fine lynching threesr as town. Even though there is still no reason for townies to want to lynch townies, FC will take any justification that he can get. As I said at the top, I'd like everyone's thoughts on these two. | ||
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I am curious as to why you believe that a town Corazon flip would mean that threesr is scum. | ||
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On December 20 2012 09:50 OmniEulogy wrote: Theesr has been pushing him the most, also already getting a scummy read from him but because I believe Corazon is scum without a doubt I'm forced to believe Theesr is just playing town with a really bad mindset of lurking and not contributing. If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town He's tried to vote for 3 people in quick succession without any real reasons. Or at least he didn't explain them because he doesn't like to... so if Corazon isn't scum I believe Theesr is trying to throw us in multiple directions at once and just hoping something sticks. Luckily for him something did and I'm willing to believe it's just bad town play. Here's where we disagree. I don't see a first time scum player doing as much crazy stuff as threesr has been doing. As scum threesr had no reason to say things like "I'm find with lurking" or to do something like switch his vote three times. Those things attract negative attention to him and don't help push a mafia agenda at all. People say things like "He's causing confusion", but there hasn't really been any confusion caused. I think it's far more likely that he's just a townie who doesn't really know what he's doing. | ||
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We should be lynching the player who is most likely to flip scum, not based on any information we might gain. We can look at association stuff after the flip, but we want to focus on lynching scum before. Based solely on who will flip scum, who do you want to lynch and can you move your vote there? | ||
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Our objective as town is to lynch mafia. What we should not be doing is lynching for information instead of lynching mafia. The information gained from a flip is not great enough that we should lynch a townier player. If you look at what shz's post actually says, there's very little actual conclusions that could be drawn. Most of it is just "x is possible scum". All of it is just worrying about the d2 lynch, which we should do on d2 instead of now. I dislike your post saying that we should "expect a town lynch". Good towns can find scum d1. Good players can be correct in their reads with over "40%" certainty. Your post reads like you're not going to even try to find scum. Who do you want to lynch right now? @Kickstart Come on, you have to do better than that. You're the most experienced player here and you haven't said anything for 24h. What do you think about my cases on Corazon/FC? | ||
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Basically, we lynch the most scummy player and then look at association d2. There's no benefit to looking at it now if we are trying to lynch mafia. | ||
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Comments on Corazon/FC after my cases? | ||
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If you want to lynch Corazon, can you move your vote to him? | ||
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Corazon's defense was okay. His reads felt manufactured to me, but I no longer think that he's the scummiest player above FC or Spag. Aqua, your points against Spag are really good. His refusal to pressure anyone at any point, while still "contributing", is something that scum would do. Add this to his total 180 on Corazon for bad reasons and I think there's a good chance that he'll flip scum. Also, it's super scummy how he starts pressuring someone right when the pressure is turned up on him. Why start contributing just now. I'm going to examine him more closely when I get home. Right now, I think I want to lynch FatChunk. He has: - posted tons of fluff about "environments for scum to thrive" - not posted unless he's under pressure - responded extremely sarcastically and defensively to some normal questions If y'all won't go for FatChunk, though, I'm willing to go for Spag. @Spag Would you lynch FatChunk? ##Unvote ##Vote: FatChunk | ||
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Please do build a case, your comments so far have been mostly useless. | ||
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I'll keep my vote on FC right now, but any of these three (Corazon/FC/Spag) has a good chance of flipping scum. | ||
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If threesr isn't getting enough votes, would you lynch FC or Spag? | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:03 FatChunk wrote: There has been a lot of curiosity as to why I defended Corazone and I would like to briefly address this. Early game consisted of corazone playing defensively due to a perceived slip, and thus everyone deciding the bandwagon behind a sheeping Aqua and Chromatically. Chrom then specifically asks my opinion on corazone, which I give although not very valuable, and I provide a read on threesr - a thought shared by others (Mocsta). I told myself when I started that logical, rational thought is what will benefit the town and will be the reason behind my voting. Call me bad i guess - I have pretty much no prior experience in mafia, so that is how I will play this game. Literally the only reason people are voting for me is because of coincidental association with corazone and being defensive, the former being a quality that, I imagine, is common in newbie games because hey, we all want to stay alive right? No, people (aka me) are voting for you because you've done nothing this game. You haven't pursued a scumread, you haven't taken any stances at all. The most bold thing you've done is placed a vote on threesr with almost no justification. If you actually think threesr is scum, you should actually analyze his posting and show why it comes from scum. You've said "he's useless"- that doesn't help @Chromatically You asked for a read on corazone, again. All I will say is that I think that the original suspicion behind corazone was never really fully justified. It is easy to pin two people together when their opinions happen to align, and thus you have created this me/corazone case. I'm not going to address everything in your post because I consider alot of your suspicions to be based on the fact that I know what I'm doing (lol, which I dont. it is either my ignorance or lack of experience in making reads and accusations as well as inability to present them accurately). When I was perceived as helping corazone, I simply meant to present an opinion, spark further discussion, and make a final decision on whether or not to lynch corazone tongiht. I will be careful when voicing who I agree with from now on. Also I am confused: scum hunting and expressing opinion is good for town, and when I try and provide the ONLY opinion I have at the time (threesr) I get labelled as not supporting evidence and trying to lynch anyone without reasoning. Chromatically suggests that I will vote anybody off (even though a vote is a tool to apply pressure), yet I am sticking to a read that is not the majority read at the moment. ... Okay, you don't respond to anything because you're a noob. Like everyone else in this game. It shouldn't be any harder for you to make a case on threesr if you're a noob. It shouldn't be any harder to take stances on things happening in the thread. If you want to lynch threesr, provide some real justification. Otherwise, pick Corazon or Spag, because one is getting lynched today. After looking it over, my order of preference for lynches is now: FatChunk -> Spag -> Corazon I don't think enough people have commented on FC. He's scummy for many of the same reasons as Spag: he hasn't pressured anyone, his only vote is on a player who was generally unsupported at the time. He's posted long posts that don't add anything to find scum. Spag has at least posted a case on someone, FC has not even provided justification for his vote, but insists that he's providing reasoning. I will consolidate on Spag if it's necessary (I agree with what has been said about his defense of Corazon), but I would much rather lynch Chunk today. Can everyone please look through his filter and tell me if they can see his posting coming from a townie? | ||
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FatChunk. Go. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:17 Aquanim wrote: This is gonna have to be brief. He certainly hasn't posted a whole lot. While that's a problem, and if he's town I want to see it rectified day two, it makes me less confident of a read on him. Spag's sheer quantity of posts without any pressure or committment is the elephant in the room. In what posts he has made, FC did justify his vote on Threesr a little bit: And he did proceed to pressure Threesr some more (insofar as that's possible with <10 posts). Threesr is a very easy target and FC hasn't done anything huge so far, but I can believe this from a newbie town. Which is not to say I have any confidence in his towniness, he just hasn't contributed enough. tl;dr: FC is more inexperienced, has posted less in general, but attemped to look for scum a little. Spag has more experience, has posted more and demonstrated a fair bit of knowledge, but has not looked for scum. I guess I can also believe that he's a new townie. Spag isn't really that experienced though (one game) compared to FC. I don't think that FC should have a problem truly justifying his vote with a legitimate case and analysis of threesr's posting. I also don't like that he only posts when pressured. This post too: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote: ... Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. But, despite all that, I could see him just being bad town. I do hope that he'll do a better job during d2 and actually justify his vote, otherwise I will have to be back to pushing him. I think that it will be easier to tell if he's scum or not by his actions d2, so I will ##Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus If someone wants me to justify this, I will, but it's all been said already. Has tried to blend in, hard defended another player, has told others to scumhunt without actually doing anything, etc. | ||
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I read through Spag's filter in his town game, and it is very different from his filter in this game. His defense of the player under suspicion could be either a way to get town cred after a green flip or to protect a scumbuddy; either does not look good for him. In addition, the wording of the beginning of his post indicates a scum mindset to me. As town, if you honestly believe someone is being mislynched, you might make a post saying "this is why I have a town read on him". You wouldn't make a blatant defense of that player, and preemptively justify it, all while actually having a scumread on that player. I'm going for Spag over Corazon or FatChunk because I hadn't really considered the bad town angle on them before. Their posting is super fishy, but the chance that they are just bad townies makes it so that Spag is a better lynch today. If neither of them shape up day 2, I'll keep on them. Spag, on the other hand, can't point to a noob explanation because he hasn't been playing like a noob. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:02 FatChunk wrote: Spag's rebuttle to Aqua's argument was in my opinion, satisfactory. Mocsta your post does not provide any evidence in my eyes, it is all speculation. Your first arguments that spag acuses corazon to be scum, then changes to town, is quite possible. People can probably change their minds in this game, thats the idea behind pressuring right? Thus, inconclusive Part 2. Thus part 3 is a little redundant if you dont value part 2. Also, RE: 3-(4) he does not manipulate town for survival, he manipulates town openly and in the right direction by sacrificing his own survival because he risks coming off as too agressive. Also, if he were mafia why would he openly protect his 2 other mafia mates. Anyway your argument does not sway me, neither did Aquas'. Everyone keeps mentioning that spag is appearing useful while not contributing. Spag has argued that he has been lighting fires under lurkers to gain information. Is this not considered scumhunting, whether direct or indirect? He seems to be contributing in ways that are very obviously pro-town. I do not really see conclusive evidence. But who knows, maybe thats what town's supposed to do on day1. Anyway, we would have stood much more benefit and less to lose by lynching theesr - we would have confirmed theesr as town/scum and in turn shed some light on spag's innocence. Now hes gone. I will do my best D2 to be more useful, as it seems nobody values my posts. ^ scum right here Comes in right before the flip and posts a defense of the person he knows to be town. What purpose is served for town by posting this when Spag is already dead? None; it's scum trying to gain town cred. | ||
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On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote: Hey guys, I just got home sorry for being so late. After reading through everything first and foremost ##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up. He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr. The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to. I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1. Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind. I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly. Votes Corazon almost solely on his rather unconvincing "slip", trying to avoid justifying his vote while saying that he is "100% scum". He also lines 'em up with the mislynches by setting up a Threesr lynch for d2. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:17 FatChunk wrote: i simply did that because mocsta questioned me earlier. it was just me typing it out coincidentally at this time. by the way it didnt matter when I posted this, votes were decided. I was just trying to explain my view. My god stop reading too much into the smallest things when they don't mean anything. I didn't see Mocsta's question, but I still find the post weird. You said: Anyway, we would have stood much more benefit and less to lose by lynching theesr - we would have confirmed theesr as town/scum and in turn shed some light on spag's innocence. Now hes gone. This is not related to Mocsta's question. The only purpose of this is to distance yourself from the lynch and make yourself look better. And seriously, there's no need for a townie to be as defensive as you've been. I'm not reading too much into your posts, I'm scumhunting. Hopefully you can do some of that d2. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:26 OmniEulogy wrote: @Chrom just because Spagh got his reads wrong and got lynched defending scum doesn't mean the rest of us have been wrong about that situation. It's unfortunate that we got taken off course because Aqua made a good point and Spagh couldn't defend himself properly but how does any of that change the fact that the logic behind Corazon/threesr/FC is still sound. I'm not saying that the logic is any different, but I am saying that your post looks bad if I remove my confirmation bias specs with regards to Corazon. | ||
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[QUOTE]On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Bugger tomorrow IDGAF While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. ... He just casually claims VT for no reason!? This isn't the action of a townie carefully thinking over his claim, this is something that a scum threw out because he wasn't thinking it over. A townie claiming VT would make it a big deal and let everyone know that he was claiming, but the way Omni does it looks more like a mafia just trying to add legitimacy to his post. | ||
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In fact... WTF is this: On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Bugger tomorrow IDGAF While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. ... He just casually claims VT for no reason!? This isn't the action of a townie carefully thinking over his claim, this is something that a scum threw out because he wasn't thinking it over. A townie claiming VT would make it a big deal and let everyone know that he was claiming, but the way Omni does it looks more like a mafia just trying to add legitimacy to his post. | ||
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-Kickstart -Orangeremi -Sylencia -threesr (during the second half of d1) - It's nearly impossible to get a read on you if you're all lurking. One day is excuseable, more than that is not. There were many chances to comment on things during the day that you didn't. I think it's very likely that at least one scum is hardcore lurking and it's working because multiple town are also lurking. Kickstart and Syl have said that they have time problems, I assume that you'll be able to post more going in to d2. Orangeremi I see as particularly suspicious out of this group for being lurky all day for no particular reason. tl,dr; don't lurk so that we can find the scum. | ||
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On December 21 2012 10:04 OmniEulogy wrote: why make a big deal over something that is obvious. I've been scum hunting, helping with reads and giving my input on matters. Yes I'm town. No I'm not Blue, Miller, or Mason. the VT claim was veiled so if I did get checked N1 it would come back exactly as I have said. Sorry Chrom I'm not trying to hide what I'm doing. To put it simply for you. I am VT. I scumhunt. I give my thoughts to the rest of you. If thats all you've got for a case that I claimed VT and then proceeded to play like a townie and continue to contribute to town... you caught me. Spaghetticus tried his hardest to find something in my filter and couldn't even come back with a FoS and I was voting for him. Don't get distracted on me, it will just waste time. Yes I'm being defensive - this is my defense after all. It's obvious that you're VT? There is no town benefit in you claiming VT on d1. What do you mean by the bolded? I assure you. I'll have a full case on you tomorrow. | ||
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On December 21 2012 10:09 threesr wrote: Didnt have much of an opportunity to post on the second half of day 1 because I was sleeping, then I knocked over the christmas tree and had to clean that shit up. Then had to pick up someone from the airport and just got home. That's fine, but it's necessary that everyone contributes d2. Have to make sure that you're not going to start lurking as the pressure on you is turned off. | ||
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Elaborate on Mocsta? | ||
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FatChunk and Corazon I'm still having doubts on noob vs scum, hopefully they contribute more during d2. I think shz and Orangeremi need to be looked at more, I'll definately write something on shz. I agree with what Kick said about it (sniped me) but shz is also hardcore blending in. He hasn't taken any positions on anything and is being mostly ignored by everyone, which just bothers me. He's also been basically active lurking all day. | ||
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Here are the posts that I'd like you to explain: On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote: Hey guys, I just got home sorry for being so late. After reading through everything first and foremost ##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up. He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr. The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to. I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1. Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind. I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly. You make it sound like your entire justification for voting Corazon is his "slip". Why did you find it convincing enough to call him "100% scum"? Do you really not see how a townie could have written that? Supposed slip in question: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 06:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Now you are just trying to play the victim card. I have made one voting decision in my time as mafia, and it was a vote to defend myself, not on who I liked or not. Make a useful post, not all of this silly questioning and stuff. The other post, which I brought up earlier: On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Bugger tomorrow IDGAF While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. Why did you claim VT? All claiming VT does is expose to the NK. You've answered this before , but it doesn't justify your claim. Do you just not understand why VTs shouldn't claim? | ||
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There's also just no town reason to do it. It doesn't benefit town at all. | ||
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Why did you think that someone would be coming after you after the lynch? | ||
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On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote: ... Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again. ... Read on shz? By now you should have had enough time to look through his filter. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote: Bugger tomorrow IDGAF While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia. + Show Spoiler + (points finger at Threesr and Corazon) Another safe play. These guys were destined to get it. I predicted the shitstorm (though admittedly I named Shz as well), if the info was available to me it was available to Omni. Targeting the weaker town is a move that a scum naturally does whether they are new or not. What would you do if you were scum? I'd play the same way I am right now but wouldn't have switched my vote from Corazon. Draws unneeded attention. As well as advise my team mates not to make any large plays until day 2 and if possible and there are 3 scum discuss throwing one under the bus themselves N2/D3 to establish one or both of the other scum as good townies. imo pretty basic stuff. + Show Spoiler + If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town See how if Corazon comes up innocent (which I think he will) then Omni has set the stage to move onto the next easiest player. Even if these players were scum they would pose very little threat. This is positioning for an incredibly strong day three for the mafia, leaving 2-3 strong players, a bunch of lurkers, and zero leads. I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. The information we get if he is innocent would still help town. I also like how you take a post from early on in the game and apply its rationale to a point after we have more information. + Show Spoiler + Also Chunk is the only one who has tried to defend Corazon but hasn't come completely out and said he thinks he's innocent, just that with ALL the evidence he still can't vote for him? I'm going to stick with Corazon as my #1 scum read but Chunk seems suspicious just based on that to me. More bagging on the lowest players. The big three are common knowledge and a safe sell at the point of writing the above quote. Omni continues to say absolutely nothing at all risky. He is waiting for things to be safe and then stating the obvious. He openly displays all the signs of posing bluster I resent to demonstrate myself. Why be risky when I am town. scumhunt and give my input is all I've been doing so far in D1. You caught me. doing my role as I intended. + Show Spoiler + If anybody can clearly give us a way to gain more information while at the same time getting rid of suspicion of Corazon I am all for it. I don't want to lynch somebody who could be town just because we all tunnel him. Let's try and get some information from other lurkers. What do they think of the current situation ect. See this? This is someone that has the gall to ask for someone to do the very thing I have been doing, then nails me for it (but only after someone else does... can't be too safe). Clear difference in somebody who scumhunts and somebody who has posted fluff all game, gets voted on for it, and for his defense posts more pointless fluff that doesn't answer anything. What information have you given us exactly? have you seen the results of all of your posts? Any information come out of them? nope. + Show Spoiler + This defense of his vote almost seems like he's committing to a lynch, until you realise he was just waiting for a better lynch for scum to present itself. Yes I believe I'm a bigger prize than Corazon's entirely compromised town play, because I have a better position, and because I play more like a blue role would (less aggression). I still believe he's scum. There is no better lynch than scum. Other scum =/= better. + Show Spoiler + I was ready to tunnel Corazon until your horrid defense to Aqua's case. 100% believe he is scum. Doesn't mean I'm not going to look for other scum though. My defense was not horrid. I take offense. You repeat everything that he is attacking you for. it's horrible. If it wasn't I wouldn't need to be typing right now. + Show Spoiler + and if by bandwagon you mean make the case and stick with it for 30~ hours while continuing to bring up new material that hasn't been said. Yup total bandwagon. I ignore the original vote on him as a way to gauge how he reacts and gets conversation started. He slips - argues with Threesr and then I make the 3rd vote on him (2nd with evidence) and push for others to also vote and put pressure on him. On a person which the zeitgeist favours as a bandwagon. I don't care how long you spent blustering at the obvious pickups of non-town behaviour. The guy's level of play was inadequate and the case made itself. Do you really think his door would not have been knocked down without you? He was in for pressure, from you or otherwise. You wasted your time while pretending to contribute. Scummy. pretending to contribute - putting out information nobody has stated yet and clearly YOU missed his slip. .+ Show Spoiler + I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. Why would I try to be more complex than that in my first game? I'd just confuse people and myself. "I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, so I will assume that I am and not try to improve my play, as playing dumb will convince people I'm town." I know I'm playing D1 1st mafia game ever, I also know I have absolutely no feedback on my play so far. I also know I've built a case based on Corazon both being scum and flipping VT for information (again you are more than welcome to see shz's post for that) I said it myself but it wasn't very clear. He made it make a lot more sense. + Show Spoiler + am actually genuinely impressed with your expression here, regardless of your alignment. The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. When you address me or speak of me in any way, please refrain from throwing emotional garbage about. It makes me like you more if you don't. Tell me what's wrong with what I said, not how wrong it is. Words without reason are meaningless fluff, or peripheral associative priming depending on who the listener is. A townie should have logic behind his claims. Or just not give any input at all and pretend to be helping I guess. Then get called out for it and still post the fluff you hate. I didn't get emotional stop getting so defensive because I called your defense trash. which it was. Horrid really. + Show Spoiler + Rebuke of Mocsta's Early Town Tells: He was potentially misleading town, and setting himself up to take control. I stopped him the same way I did SS, though I did not make a case out of it because there wasn't one. Theory of Town and Scum: I have not stated my thoughts but that does not mean I haven't devoted a lot of time developing them. I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me. I've determined that Chromatiacally, Aquinim, Cakepie, and Mocsta will need to be dealt with later rather than now if they happen to be scum. That's narrowed the list of lynchable candidates down to six for me, this is no small analysis! Your assertion that I have not developed any theory is BS. Rather than flaunt every thought that tickles my ol' brain I know my understanding will only get better with time, and voting now is pretentious or whimsical. Asking Kickstart for meta reads: You say this wasn’t useful. Surely you could see the potential of such a move? I am lighting a fire under a lurker, and attempting to mine a new vein of data. As far as post efficiency goes you can’t fault me on this. “So Spag thinks that the best way to get town back to scumhunting is to defend someone under pressure, not make a case himself? Words fail me.” In this particular instance this is exactly what I thought. I don’t have any really solid cases, I am still narrowing down suspects. Any case I would post at that point would likely fall on deaf ears and I really believed I could benefit town by taking pressure off of the obvious targets and spreading the suspicion around. "Spag's whole "I'm defending Corazon but still happy to vote for him" BS is a classic scum move too - keeping his options open for new developments so he doesn't have to contradict himself later. I'm not saying that town would never do this, but it's pretty damn scummy." I am no longer happy to vote for Corazon which I believe I expressed in the same post. Through writing the post I came to the conclusion that he is the towniest person here, and I will stand by that statement. I am sorry I did not go back through and edit for consistency, I was tired after doing a LOT of legwork for this game. You’re welcome. Where in that is anything not just smoke and mirrors? You don't answer a single thing. You still don't take a firm stance on anything other than ignoring other reads, that you have stayed consistent with, and you still don't offer any scum hunting but instead you say you still don't have enough information to even post on who you think might be scum. You were called out, I didn't think much of it, you returned with nothing, I voted. Aqua's case against you was much stronger than your defense of yourself. Here once again is the part of the post where OE claims VT. This happens before the Spag flip, and while OE's vote was still on Spag. In this very same post, he attacks Spag and does not change his mind about Spag at any point before the town flip. When I ask him why he claimed, here is his justification and clarification: On December 22 2012 01:52 OmniEulogy wrote: quick thing about claiming VT. You would have forced me to role claim about 20 minutes after I had made that original post. I saw it coming (not from you in particular but knew somebody was going to come after me after the lynch) so doing it 10 minutes before D1 ended or 10 minutes into N1 doesn't really make the largest difference. If I don't role claim early in that situation imo D2 I'm the easiest lynch at that point in time. Anyway on to Corazon, as I mentioned in the quote you posted his starting game was bad, as I was going to sleep and reading everything over he was already becoming scum in my mind, I woke up and read through 6~ more pages of him making bad posts, excuses and no real answers to anything and then posts that he's mafia. I honestly just had a hard time anybody would be so nervous that even while being careful they would post so many scummy things. as per what he means about the NK from what I take from it and the only thing that makes sense is that scum will avoid targeting me because they know I'm not blue. If that isn't what he meant about the NK then I don't know. On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. Also something I'm painfully aware of and I'm sure everybody else has noticed as well is that when I mapped out who should be town and why I don't actually have a place on that list. I had tried to help scum hunt and give my thoughts D1 but given that I didn't defend anybody I just need to use my consistent play and the fact that I am VT. Poor planning on my part but I think the information we got isn't the worst trade off. Hopefully everyone realizes that at the time all my scum reads and the one tell on Corazon made sense. However I wasn't about to let us waste 72 hours to get myself lynched and we end up with 3 dead townies going into N2. Let's examine Omni's claims: - he voted for Spag and had a scum read on him up until the lynch - he claimed VT before the flip, while he had a scumread on Spag - his justification for the claim was that he expected to come under pressure the next day - he clarified that he expected to come under pressure specifically as a result of Spag's case + because he expected Spag's case to put suspicion on him, he actually expected Spag to flip town (a case from flipped scum would practically confirm him as town instead) Why would a town Omni, who is voting for Spag and has a clear scumread on him, expect Spag to flip town? He wouldn't. Why would a scum Omni, trying to mislynch Spag, expect Spag to flip town? Because he knows that Spag is actually town. Other Reasons Why OmniEulogy is Scum On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote: Hey guys, I just got home sorry for being so late. After reading through everything first and foremost ##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up. He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr. The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to. I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1. Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind. I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly. Here's Omni's first real stance in the thread. The votes at this time were 2 on Corazon and 3 on threesr, and Omni puts suspicion on both of them in this post, a very safe position to take. He tries extra hard in this post to make it look like he's not sheeping by focusing on the scumslip, which really was not convincing at all. Note that he says: "Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind", not "Corazon's scummy actions". He avoids talking about the other reasons for voting Corazon almost completely, despite later saying that those were some of the reasons he voted for Cora. He's paranoid about being seen as suspicious, so he tries really hard to not look suspicious. Also starts lining up some mislynches of threesr for d2. His next real stance is his switch to Spag: On December 20 2012 21:51 OmniEulogy wrote: #Unvote ##Vote: Spaghetticus ##FoS: cDgCorazon Congrats Corazon. I still think you are scum but I'm going to hunt your buddies for the rest of the day. This post reads to me "I'm playing my game and I don't care what yours is, I'll just sit in the middle of the room so you know I'm here" And I must have missed the part where you were ever happy to vote for somebody instead of defend them without giving us any other leads. For such a big post it doesn't say very much. Please stop coaching and ask one of the real ones for help because if you are town you've just dragged me away from my top scum reads for a moment. Personally I read Mocsta as town and don't mind him trying to lead conversation for the next day and night. If he is scum the amount of talking he'll have to do will eventually make him slip up. I'll also ask you how Corazon is the towniest person here when as soon as he received a few more votes + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 13:27 cDgCorazon wrote: Sigh, I thought this was newbie Mafia, and all of you seem to be using strategies that newbie Mafia players shouldn't know. TL Mafia surfs, maybe? and On December 20 2012 13:28 cDgCorazon wrote: GG were the first things he said. Even if he is being sarcastic it's still just another scum tell in my eyes. You don't post a bunch of potentially scummy things, get told people think you are scum for doing it, and then do it even more. If you are town you try to convince other people that it was a mistake and give them feedback and correct your actions. That taken into account I can explain this massive post as "please don't lynch my scummate" and it all sounds pretty reasonable. Wait, what? His earlier post said that Corazon was "100% scum" in his mind. In fact, this post strongly implies that his view of Corazon hasn't changed at all. But he's fine switching from his 100% scum read to Spag? He actually says, flat out, that he was "dragged away from his top scum reads", meaning that he's voting Spag over his top scum reads. Notice the zero justification given for voting Spag. Here's the votecount at the time of his switch: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 20:50 Dandel Ion wrote: Votecount: cDgCorazon (5): Chromatically, OmniEulogy, threesr, shz, Sylencia threesr (3): FatChunk, Mocsta, cDgCorazon Orangeremi (1): cakepie Spaghetticus (1): Aquanim Not voting (3): Kickstart, Orangeremi, Spaghetticus Currently, cDgCorazon is set to be lynched! ~12 hours remaining in day 1. Please PM any of your friendly neighborhood hosts if your vote is counted incorrectly. Please also "##unvote" when your vote is already on somebody, makes it easier on the votecount bitches. Remember: If you don't vote at all, you will be smitten by divine wrath. Full version: + Show Spoiler + cDgCorazon (5): threesr (3): FatChunk, Mocsta, Corazon Orangeremi (1): cakepie Spaghetticus (1): Aquanim Mocsta (0): FatChunk (0): Aquanim (0): shz (0): Not voting (4): Kickstart, Orangeremi, Spaghetticus At this point, it was looking pretty likely that either Corazon or threesr would get lynched. So Omni switches off of his top scumread onto a person with only one vote. This really demonstrates that he didn't care about who was lynched, By switching, he made the vote closely divided between Corazon, threesr, and Spag, allowing any one of them to be lynched by a few votes. Apart from that, Omni has done nothing. He hasn't had any original scumreads at all. Look at his latest reads post: On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Alright, so to get more conversation going I'm going to go over pretty much everything I believe we've learned from D1. Reads I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie. I believe strong town reads are Mocsta, Chromatically, and Aquanim. If Aquanim were scum, he didn't need to try to get Spag lynched to save Corazon, as Corazon defended Spag and imo proved his innocence. If Aqua were scum he could have sat back and let us lynch Cora. - same thing happens N1 but his name isn't out there for starting the lynch. For this I believe Aqua is town. FC's actions at the end of D1 still throw me off a little bit. On one hand he's defending him (much too late) and if he were scum and knew Spag would turn up town it would make it easy for him to try and give a last minute case about why he thinks he's innocent. Hard to tell as he makes a few good points as well. He also tried to defend Corazon when nobody else would. Makes it much harder for me to call him scum now. Theesr moves to my #1 scum read as even during the lynch of Spag he really doesn't seem to care. I believe he even says at one point he doesn't care. Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK. Shz fits into a middle ground for me. I am neutral about him for the time being. I'll need to look through the filter again. with them gone the people I really have trouble marking come out. Orange, Kick, Cakepie, and Sylencia. I'll enjoy having Sylencia around more often now and it should bring some more insight on him but I find it incredibly hard to read the other three and can't tell if they represent town or scum at all. TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc Aqua I think you should look this over and see if it makes sense to you. Moc/Chrom/shz/cora as well. I believe if we use D1 as any indicator we can assume this to be correct. I admit I was wrong about Corazon after reading through everything again and thinking about it for awhile. Hopefully we can move on and get some of these lurkers out in the open He conveniently moves off of Corazon after I stop pushing it and the momentum on that wagon has run out. He doesn't provide any reasons for switching off, he just says that he "read through everything again". How do you go from "100% scum" to a town read by just "thinking about it for a while"? This is just an excuse to drop his scum read on Cora. The rest of his reads are super safe. Town reads on the accepted townies, no read on shz, and a scum read on threesr because he knows that FatChunk and Corazon will still go for that. He's not invested in finding scum, he's sheeped all the cases, he's playing the safest game possible, and he slipped pretty hard. Thoughts? | ||
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On December 22 2012 07:49 cDgCorazon wrote: I would also like to see your thoughts on Aqua's accusations on Omni. Right now it seems like you are not looking at the big picture, and are only seeing possible cases about people who are accusing you. Don't I get any credit? On December 22 2012 07:51 threesr wrote: Too lazy to do that atm, i dont care about your opinion of me at all just fyi. Please never play this game again if you're going to play this way. If anyone has any questions about the case, do say them now. | ||
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I haven't read your whole case yet but.. wow | ||
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Lynch OmniEulogy unless he provides a very good defense to my case AND a good explanation for his slip. Probable lynch of shz. If OE flips red, there's lots of association to be made between him and shz. | ||
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Well, let's hear it. | ||
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On December 22 2012 09:12 cDgCorazon wrote: Trying to distance yourself from Omni? Why are you in such a panic to do so? Trying to distance myself...? I wrote a giant case against him... | ||
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I posted my case before Mocsta posted his, there would be no reason to try and bus Omni... | ||
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From experience, it is extremely awkward to talk about your scumbuddies. In XXXI, I never mentioned Kickstart unless I practically had to. Apart from the supposed association with Omni, he accuses me of bandwagoning you (Corazon), except I actually wrote the original case. Pushing scumreads =/= bandwagoning. He says I'm aggressive.. which is not a scum trait. If there's a specific point you want to draw my attention to, that's fine, but his case barely analyses me at all. | ||
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If you're not voting for OE, you should have a very good explanation why. | ||
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On December 22 2012 20:27 OmniEulogy wrote: ... The only thing that even slightly incriminates Chrom is that he asked me why I thought Mocsta was town, I gave my reason and I turned out to be right. Mocsta gets lynched while trying to investigate me. I sure as hell would not lynch somebody as they are forming my investigation. I haven't lied once all game, From the information we had and the fact that Cora claimed scum I assumed he couldn't be making that many bad decisions and was just scum under pressure. I was wrong. I've already gone over that. My vote on Spag I have already also gone over. The vote was pressure that I had meant to remove after clearing up his case and he poorly handled it and it led to his lynching. USE the information it gave us instead of continuing to go after people. ... If this is your defense, it's not very convincing. You gave no reaoning from upgrading Corazon from "100% scum" to town other than "I looked it over". Your Spag vote justification doesn't help cover up your slip. Spag had already posted his defense and you were convinced that he was scum, when you claimed VT. If you really thought Spag was scum, you wouldn't have expected to come under pressure and you wouldn't have claimed. | ||
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On December 22 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: As for Spags case and me claiming VT 1) I voted as pressure, not intending to keep my vote on him (said this like three times now) 2) + Show Spoiler + I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. 3) So I claimed knowing that if I didn't I would be doing it in 20 minutes anyway, and look at that I was right. As I've said before I saw it coming and reacted before hand. As I've already said + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. To point 1): It doesn't matter if you voted as pressure or intended to keep your vote on him. You did keep your vote on him until the end of the day. Did you think that Spag was scum up until the flip? | ||
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On December 22 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote: ... As for Spags case and me claiming VT 1) I voted as pressure, not intending to keep my vote on him (said this like three times now) 2) + Show Spoiler + I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. 3) So I claimed knowing that if I didn't I would be doing it in 20 minutes anyway, and look at that I was right. As I've said before I saw it coming and reacted before hand. As I've already said + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 02:21 OmniEulogy wrote: because Spag made it his last case to try and convince somebody I was scum. He was town its not hard to assume I'll become a target. So you preemptively claimed VT to defend yourself against a case that would only hold any weight if he flipped town? Think about this thought process for a minute: - "I think Spag will flip scum, I'm voting for him" - "If he flips town, I'll be under suspicion" - "Even though I don't think he'll flip town, I should claim VT to defend myself on the off chance that he does" That makes no sense. Also, why did you know that you would be claiming after the flip? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 01:52 OmniEulogy wrote: quick thing about claiming VT. You would have forced me to role claim about 20 minutes after I had made that original post. I saw it coming (not from you in particular but knew somebody was going to come after me after the lynch) so doing it 10 minutes before D1 ended or 10 minutes into N1 doesn't really make the largest difference. If I don't role claim early in that situation imo D2 I'm the easiest lynch at that point in time. Anyway on to Corazon, as I mentioned in the quote you posted his starting game was bad, as I was going to sleep and reading everything over he was already becoming scum in my mind, I woke up and read through 6~ more pages of him making bad posts, excuses and no real answers to anything and then posts that he's mafia. I honestly just had a hard time anybody would be so nervous that even while being careful they would post so many scummy things. as per what he means about the NK from what I take from it and the only thing that makes sense is that scum will avoid targeting me because they know I'm not blue. If that isn't what he meant about the NK then I don't know. You never mention in there any other reason for your claim other than "people would force me to". That's the only reason you've presented so far for your claim, and now you're trying to justify it a different way. You're changing your story as you go. And several times now, you've said that you "knew someone would come after you" or that you "knew you'd be forced to claim". If Spag flipped town, people come after you. If Spag flipped scum, no one comes after you. If you knew that you'd be forced to claim after the flip, then you knew that Spag would flip town. | ||
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On December 23 2012 01:46 OmniEulogy wrote: you are misunderstanding pretty badly. Or intentionally trying to twist what I am saying. I did not say that I claimed to give more information. I said that it makes sense to claim VT even if I thought he was scum because if he isn't I would be put into this position one way or the other. You argued how I'd know he is town, I replied by saying I didn't, I was pretty confident AND when he flipped scum the information we would gain would be far greater than scum learning my role. I'm not changing any story I'm just giving you more information behind my thought process because you've asked the same question in different ways about 3 times. I have to go into more detail. Nowhere in there do I say I claim to give town information. ##FoS: Chromatically This is twice you've tried to either twist my words or intentionally misunderstand to try and get your own agenda out. In the first sentence again no less. You've said that your reasoning for claiming, if Spag was town, is to defend yourself. This is your reasoning for claiming, if he was scum: "he flips scum I've claimed VT, we have a ton of information from a successful hit on D1". I assumed that the reason it was good to claim even in the instance of Spag flipping scum was to give town information. Is this incorrect? If so, why would you claim when you think he'll flip scum? I know I've asked this before but I still don't see your reasoning for doing so. Why would you be put into this position one way or another? If he flips scum you're in no way forced to claim, because no one is suspicious of you. I'm sorry to ask these questions over and over but I'm not getting answers. | ||
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I get that townies do things that don't make sense to me sometimes, and your reaction feels very genuinely townie to me. Plus you're at least an active poster. Threesr is basically completely unreadable. When he was posting actively, it didn't feel like scum because he wasn't careful enough. I still don't really think he's scum, a bored townie is more likely. I would only lynch him as a last resort, if no one else looked good. I really don't like the feel of shz, and I hate that he completely dropped off the radar. Maybe this will summon him? ##Vote: shz Probably will write a case today. I'm also not liking Orange either. | ||
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shz has been playing like classic scum. Real stances are nonexistant, real contribution is nonexistant, yet he manages to blend in and look like a contributor very well. On December 19 2012 18:19 shz wrote: Could not sleep, so I can be at least productive here. I think we pretty much made it clear that we don't accept lurking as a playstyle for Town, so I don't think this will be much of a problem. If it is, we also made the consequences clear for everyone. Our focus should be to find null- & unconstructive posts which don't help us at all. That would be a pretty good starting point to pressure and get some more information. Corazon did indeed more or less only reacted to direct questions and was not that talkative in general. I don't think that is a huge tell, but why not investigate further? The interesting thing is that he/she kinda defended lurking and lying. I don't agree with the arguments at all, as they seem a bit weak and pointless. His first "contribution" is here. This looks like a good post at first: it's fairly long, it covers a lot of topics. However, all this is is a summary of what's happened so far. He doesn't take any stances on any of the issues of the time: look at the wishy-washiness on Corazon. He's afraid to take an actual stand, so he says things like "they seem a bit weak" instead of taking a position on it himself. This is merely the first in a long line of posts of this type, taking no stances while writing long posts anyway: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 02:57 shz wrote: As I did not get any sleep tonight, I caught some of it up until now. This is getting somewhere. So I'll start with answering my questions and then stating my thoughts. Your analysis is quite thought out and you point out three POIs and try to get something out of it by pressuring them. This is good. At the same time you still trying to get reads on most of the others by asking questions. I don't think these three are your only suspects. All in all I tend towards town as I don't see much evidence which would support you scumminess. I don't agree with your vote for Orangeremi at the moment though. Yes, he did not contribute until now, but I would give him some more hours before lynching him for that. @Mocsta So I'm scum because I said that my case against you wasn't waterproof? What would have happened if I acted so sure about you, as you act about everyone who attacks you? You getting quite defensive and jumping to, rather fast, conclusions about who is mafia and who is not. You changed your vote from me to threesr immediatly to countervote him and then spam a couple of posts saying "how easy it was", "he slipped", in big red bold latter. This is way over dramatized. To top that of you trying to martyr your way into town. I don't like that at all. I'm still not 100% conviced, but this is not helping you. For now my vote stands. And I think threesr, however fishy and rare his posts are at the moment, has a point. You seem quite conviced and at the same you are saying you are not. I don't have an opinion on FatChunk yet, as he did not contribute enough. If we don't find a conses by the lynch-deadline, we should lynch one of the lesser active players, for sure. Answers a question directed to him, defends himself a little against Mocsta, and still takes no stands. Noncommittal reads on Mocsta ("For now my vote stands"), threesr (leaving his options open by throwing a little suspicion his way), and FatChunk (doesn't have an opinion). On December 20 2012 08:45 shz wrote: Mocsta did contribute more than FatChunk before I voted him. It seems some of the players have awaken and contributed to the discussion, but some are lurking too much. 1. I'm really getting tired of threesr. Even if he/she isn't mafia he/she is creating so much chaos, only commentates snarky and very brief. He/She is dangerous whethere scum or not. 2. Kickstarter stated that he/she thinks lurking is bad, but lurks him/herself. 3. Orangerem is lurking too much. 4. Sylencia too, but that was announced, so we have to see how the next couple of play-days go. More noncommittal reads. Wants to lynch threesr even if he's not mafia and attacks Kickstart, Orange, and Sylencia for lurking (very easy for scum to do). On December 22 2012 01:58 shz wrote: "Whatever bandwagon is popular right now" is not true. My mocsta vote was to push for an discussion and I did explain my Corazone vote before. If you want to quote, don quote out of context. + Show Spoiler [Corazone reasons] + On December 20 2012 11:19 shz wrote: The question is, what information do we get if we lynch one of the current suspects. Corazon If Mafia: - threesr most likely not scum. - FatChunk unknown, but showing scummy tendencies as he/she did kinda defend Corazon and plans on voting to lynch threesr. If Town: - threesr not off the hook, but still not confirmed either. - FatChunk unknown, but leaning towards town, for the same reason as stated before. FatChunk If Mafia: - Corazone possible mafia, but not confirmed. - threesr most likely not scum. If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - threesr still possbile mafia. threesr If Mafia: - Likely town: Mocsta, Corazon (Very likely town), and FatChunk If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - FatChunk still possible mafia. I'm starting to think that Corazon is indeed the best vote at the moment. On December 20 2012 12:53 shz wrote: We we will never be able to be sure, so we have to single some guys out, discuss, search for tells, and lynch one. And I think it is to our benifit to also include possible information we can get from it in our decisions. We will most certainly lynch town too, so better make it worthwhile in terms of information. This is not me saying we should lynch town for information, it is saying we should always keep in mind that our lynch can flip as town, so better take the safe bet and at least get some information out of, if the worst case will happen. I think all three are good (for the amount of information we have) picks. Excactly. But after I read the reasons to vote for Spaghetti, it made sense. Of course it didn't matter anyway because he was dead at that point, but whatever. At the moment I'm leaning forwards FatChunk. But not sure at all at the moment, and I'm busy as fuck so I don't think I can contribute more tonight, I am working on a post with my thoughs on anyone but I have to go now~~. Sorry for the lack of contributions. I will look into FatChunk and see if my suspicion holds true. And I still have the feeling that out of the big mass contributors, there is a scum somewhere.Chroma, Mocsta, etc. Do whatever you think of it. Leans toward FatChunk, but is not sure. Also points the finger at "the big mass contributors", which says nothing at all. Next, let's examine his voting patterns: On December 19 2012 18:33 shz wrote: So if we need another wagon to jump, or not, to jump on: ##Vote: Mocsta Why? He/She did start a discussion, but I don't think that was all that useful, other than proving him being active and establish an alibi. Questions like the seafood one waste time and distract from substantial discussion. Also he/she is quite fast on "reading" someone as Town. Additionally he/she asked repeatedly about Mafia strategies. This is no way a waterproof case, but I think its a start and something we could work with. The first vote on Mocsta for some fairly lackluster reasons. I'm not going to say much about this, it could have town or scum motivation behind it, really no way to tell. I could see the scum motivation of discrediting an active townie and possibly pushing that as their mislynch if a mafia was in danger. On December 20 2012 11:19 shz wrote: The question is, what information do we get if we lynch one of the current suspects. Corazon If Mafia: - threesr most likely not scum. - FatChunk unknown, but showing scummy tendencies as he/she did kinda defend Corazon and plans on voting to lynch threesr. If Town: - threesr not off the hook, but still not confirmed either. - FatChunk unknown, but leaning towards town, for the same reason as stated before. FatChunk If Mafia: - Corazone possible mafia, but not confirmed. - threesr most likely not scum. If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - threesr still possbile mafia. threesr If Mafia: - Likely town: Mocsta, Corazon (Very likely town), and FatChunk If Town: - Corazone still possible mafia. - FatChunk still possible mafia. I'm starting to think that Corazon is indeed the best vote at the moment. He votes Corazon shortly after this post, but with no other justification. He's blatantly lynching for information and is not even paying remote attention to whether Corazon is actually scummy or not. This is the first time he's actually mentioned Corazon since his first (non)read. This was also during the phase of the competing threesr/Corazon wagons, so this is obviously an extremely safe vote. On December 21 2012 01:57 shz wrote: Before I'm on the road for most of the day before the lynch: 1. We should not assume someone is playing bad or good because of information from sources outside this game. I don't think this is very worthy of discussion. For all we know everybody could be a smurf, played with a smurf before, or just played somewhere else. Don't assume anything, look at their actions in this game. 2. It is too early to discuss possible SK. We don't know if this role is even in this game. We should stick to looking for scum for now. 3. New development! - So, Carazon is on the verge of getting lynched today and Spaghetticus comes out of nowhere to help. What does that mean? Either Carazon is Scum, Spaghetti is not, both are or neither is. If Spaghetti is scum, Carazon is too. Otherwise it does not make sense to help him/her out. But this does not help us very much. So the question is if we should change from Carazon to someone else? What are the argument for not voting Corazon Spaghetti provided: - Statistics: This does not matter at all. If there is a 75% propability for the wrong lynch in day it stays the same whether we Lynch Cora or anyonw else. - Votes arent locked, wie can always change Thema before the deadline. - There is still discussion going on. Cora defended, people analyized. We are not just stopping to post just because Cora is the target at the moment. I'm not convinced by Spaghettis arguments. Art the Moment I can see him as scum too. I'm not ruling out voting him out. - Aquanim changes his vote from Corazon to make a case against Spaghetti. While I agree that Spaghetti is possible scum, the argument that rational posts = scum is dumb. If anything overly emotional argumemts are Moore scum. Here's his next big post, as the Spag case has been made, but before the wagon has really taken off. This is another post which looks informative at first, but actually has no content. There's literally no positions taken in this post at all. He has a paragraph about Corazon/Spag associations, but doesn't reach a conclusion. He shoots down a little of Spag's defense, but that's very easy for scum to do. Note that he doesn't actually vote Spag at this time, even though the case was posted already. On December 21 2012 07:25 shz wrote: It seems like we have the strongest case against Spag at the moment. I will still keepmy eye on Cora, but for now: ##unvote ##Vote Spaghetticus @Aqua: If you did not argue that, then its all good. Of course rational not equals town, but its not equal mafia either. Its neutral. Blatant sheep onto the wagon when it's finally clear that Spag is the lynch for today (6 on Spag v 3 on Cora). Zero justification is given at all for this vote, ever. Note that he only votes Spag after the wagon has taken off and it's clearly a safe vote. Apart from that, that's it. shz has: - sheeped onto Cora and Spag with no reasoning when the wagons took off - posted long posts that look good, but take no stances at all - lynched solely for information - done nothing else | ||
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Here's what I think happened: Scum omni knows spag will turn town, and pre-claims VT innocent in an attempt to avoid defending against spag's challenges. Otherwise, town omni would genuinely expect spag to turn scum, and then would have no reason to claim VT. This is because scum spag's scum read on omni would be discarded immediately upon spag turning red. This is pretty much what I was thinking with Omni, but his explanation is passable and townies do silly things some times. So I'm letting it slide for now. | ||
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However, the problem is that you've provided no new information. Summary posts are an easy way to look like a contributor without saying anything new. Throughout your entire filter, there's no actual analysis or contribution at all. The problem isn't that you've sheeped, it's that you've only sheeped, and nothing else. | ||
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I think Orange might be a good lynch later, but I am not nearly as confident in that as I am in shz. | ||
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I'll try to stop spamming now with my "lynch shz" stuff, but seriously: lynch shz | ||
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I highly doubt it'll be shz. | ||
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Both Omni and shz were by far my top two scumreads d2, with Omni ahead mainly because of his slip. He still hasn't cleared that up completely, but his defense felt genuine enough to warrant bumping shz up to my top read. shz's posting in general looks worse than Omni's. | ||
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On December 23 2012 14:18 shz wrote: You, sir did not understand my post at all. Maybe it was strangely worded so Ill try again: If Omni were scum, he could have just voted for you instead of going for Spaghetti, because at that time you were bout to get lynched. Except if you were scum too, than he had to rescue you from your demise. But if you were scum, and he were scum, we would not made his case againt you in the first place. This is why I don't think there is a reasom to believe Omni is scum. If Omni was scum, he could have switched off to avoid suspicion at being on the major wagon, or maybe he switched off because he doesn't care who is lynched. I talked about this in my case, perhaps you should read it again. I do not understand how we are considering lynching lurkers (threesr/Orange) over the very scummy players in this game. Read the cases I've posted (Omni, shz) and ask yourself for the town and scum motivation. The scum motivation is rampant. Read the case on Orange and ask yourself for motivation. There is no scum motivation. Why would we lynch lurkers over scum? | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:38 Chromatically wrote: If Omni was scum, he could have switched off to avoid suspicion at being on the major wagon, or maybe he switched off because he doesn't care who is lynched. I talked about this in my case, perhaps you should read it again. I do not understand how we are considering lynching lurkers (threesr/Orange) over the very scummy players in this game. Read the cases I've posted (Omni, shz) and ask yourself for the town and scum motivation. The scum motivation is rampant. Read the case on Orange and ask yourself for motivation. There is no scum motivation. Why would we lynch lurkers over scum? You're right, I've only talked about your "arguments" twice so far. You ignore his whole scummy filter so that you can give him a contrived town read because you don't want to vote your scumbuddy, Of course he should vote you to survive. There's no way that you don't understand that. shz and OmniEulogy scumteam 100% | ||
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On December 24 2012 05:50 OmniEulogy wrote: I know Chrom I was looking at that as well but I don't have a scum read on Shz at all. The only way I could see Shz as being mafia atm would be if he lied about getting rb'd and tried to defend me because he knows I'm about to flip town. The case he made though was pretty well thought out in my defense and I don't think mafia would really care if I get lynched D2 anyway. It gives them a good lead. Corazon READ THE POSTS for god's sake. I am not calling Aqua scum. You had better be joking and I'm just not getting it or it's getting seriously sad. The only way you're not getting lynched is if you vote shz. Do you agree? | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:01 OmniEulogy wrote: hmm I think even if I vote Shz I'll still get lynched but I'm not going to vote for somebody I don't have a scum read on. Let's examine the possibilities: Omni and shz: Omni knows for certain that he is town. He thinks shz is town, but is not sure. Obviously, he would rather lynch shz over himself, because shz at least has a chance of flipping scum. Omni would vote for shz. Omni and shz Omni knows for certain that shz is town. Obviously, he would rather get shz mislynched than have himself lynched. Omni would vote for shz. Omni and shz Omni knows for certain that shz and himself are both scum. He doesn't want either of them lynched. He might vote for shz over himself, but only if shz is under more suspicion (which he's not). Omni probably wouldn't vote for shz. Scumteam 100%. | ||
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Seriously, the only other reason that he might not vote for you in that circumstance is because he's WIFOM bombing us hardcore. That's a terrible move strategically though, and it's unlikely in the face of the other associations. Looks like shz's not getting lynched today, might as well consolidate to prevent any shenanigainry: ##Unvote ##Vote: OmniEulogy | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:29 Aquanim wrote: Unfortunately, I think you're right. Still can't chase anyone else at this point today (too much WIFOM, and besides I doubt there's enough people here). At this rate Threesr will be modkilled - if he flips green (or blue :/ ) we will be in very deep s***. What? You don't think that Omni is scum? | ||
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Mainly I just feel like an idiot right now. | ||
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I think that shz is scum. However, I was also very confident that Spag and Omni were scum, and they weren't. In addition, by lynching them, we've lost 2 potentially helpful townies. I don't like the possibility of having another mislynch on another semiactive townie, leaving us with a higher and higher lurker:active ratio. If shz is a mislynch, we are left with a 7 person town with at least 3 total lurkers, an extremely bad situation. Given that there's almost certainly some lurking scum, I feel like the scummiest lurker (Kickstart/FatChunk/Syl) might be a better lynch. On the other hand, I think that shz has the highest chance of flipping scum. I really need to evaluate the risk:reward of lynching a lurker vs shz, I'm not decided yet. | ||
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silly smilies | ||
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You have the benefit of hindsight looking at Spag's lynch. The case made on him was good, a lot of people sheeped it. I also disagree with you on shz; he is playing scummy right now. Just because you have different reads from Kick doesn't make him scum. I'm not opposed to lynching him like any other lurker, but I don't think a strong scum read is justified. | ||
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- kickstart - orangeremi - fatchunk - sylencia By looking at their filters, fatchunk and Orangeremi look the worst. I agree with things that have been said about Orange, he's been a useless lurker this whole game, hasn't taken any difficult positions. FatChunk said that he'll be more useful d2, but hasn't done anything. He also jumped onto Omni right when his death was looking certain, specifically citing his reasoning as "giving the most information". I'm inclined to go for Orange tomorrow. | ||
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On December 25 2012 00:33 yamato77 wrote: Shz should not be your strongest scum read. My read on kick is a lot of meta. He is playing the complete opposite of his last game. He looks more like the kick from NMM XXXI where he was scum with you. He lurked a lot and made easy to justify scum reads on people already under suspicion. He kept out of the spotlight as much as possible. His town meta is aggressive and accusatory. He is like me. Paranoid and suspicious. This is not the same kick. Not to mention him being a lurker. Believe me, this is not a lurker lynch. We get some red blood when kick's head rolls. In XXXI, he wasn't lurking nearly to the extent of this game, though. (In fact, 7 pg filter in XXXI vs 10pg filter in XXXII vs 2 pg filter here). I'm inclined to believe that he has real life issues involved. It's possible that he's just trying to change his scum meta, but I doubt he would have posted "DON'T LURK LURKING BAD" if he was planning on lurking. On aggressiveness, he was very aggressive in XXXI as well. I think that this game is just very different from both of his metas overall and that we can't discern much from it. Why do you disagree on shz? | ||
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I've tried to give the three candidates for today an unbiased look to clear my head. I'm going to start with Kick (ha). I still think that his activity in and of itself is null. He doesn't lurk this hard as either alignment, which makes me think that there are IRL things involving him. There are two posts that really bothered me (other than his total sheep onto Spag, which looks pretty bad): On December 22 2012 15:37 Kickstart wrote: Cakepie being pretty ridiculous right now. First he basically claims blue. Then he spouts off a bunch of crap about who he thinks might be scum yet puts a vote on me who he gives a null read on (lol?) and he says I do nothing while saying a case can be made on shz, when I have already made a case and was the first to state suspicion of shz with this post: + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 00:04 Kickstart wrote: So I took a look through some filters and the person who stuck out most to me was SHZ. Just a quick lookthrough of his posts shows you that he been very wishy-washy on everything and committed to absolutely nothing. In my mind there are only 2 options for this sort of play, 1 is a timid towny who is unsure of themselves, 2 is scum trying to leave themselves options to try and work their way out of bad commitments. Since I believe this is SHZ's first game I am somewhat inclined to think that he is just a timid towny, but then I look at his voting and his justification behind them (read: NONE) and it seems he doesn't care at all about who gets lynched. Townys should worry very much about who gets lynched because they do not want to lynch town, even first time players know this and typically show that they care about who gets lynched. His votes are a big issue with me and I read them as scummy right now because to me it seems SHZ does not care who gets lynched (it is typical of mafia to not care who gets lynched, as long as it is town getting lynched), look at his vote posts: He takes every chance to hop on whatever bandwagon is popular at the moment, providing no reason for being on any of them. Given this I think he is the person I am most suspicious of at the moment and want to see some real reads and commitment, not wishy-washy posts that don't commit himself to anything. @SHZ Why did you jump on every bandwagon without giving any reasons at all for why you think those players are scummy? Do you have any current scum reads that you would be willing to push instead of sheeping? I also reiterated this read and stated that I felt I would be kept around because I am easy lurker lynch-bait here: And here cakepie is, saying he has a null read on me, listing tons of other slight scum reads, and throwing a vote on me. Not sure what he is doing, but the fact that he is voting me instead of one of his listed scum reads is suspicious. This really reminds me of when he tried to push an Oats mislynch in XXXI, and I'm not even entirely sure why. He's almost throwing suspicion onto cakepie for being 'bad' (even though he actually misunderstood the rules), something that he did to Oats. It's especially odd that he takes the time to put suspicion onto cake instead of looking at other people, like Corazon, who he just earlier was attacking Spag for having a town read on. This post feels similar to this post from XXXI: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 21:27 Kickstart wrote: First off your format for your vote is wrong, secondly saying you are "intensely serious" is not a case on cheesecake. Frankly this is ridiculous and so anti-town so far that if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play. The beginning of your filter is all fluff, which isn't that big of a deal since it is the start of the game and I don't really expect anything amazing from anyone, but then you post: I already told you before, if you are suspicious of someone you need to make a better post than that, you need to make a case against the person providing reasons for why they are suspicious. Then there is this: Why would you bring up "think about if I was scum", that is not a town mindset. Scum are the ones who would say something like that, all town needs to do is let their actions show that they are being pro-town, and so far you arent. And then the final straw for me so far is this: So you say yeah ok me saying cheese is scum without providing any reasoning is a bit extreme, THEN YOU DO IT ANYWAYS????? This is unacceptable. I suggest you start making some real cases, untill then: ##vote: Oatsmaster On December 24 2012 05:02 Kickstart wrote: Why the list post ;/. And why do that and say you are convinced we will find connections when you could look for them yourself and then post those? I was waiting for you to do something to convince me that you might be town but that post wasn't it. I'm not even sure what it is about this post that bothers me. The tone of this or something just feels weird. The last sentence feels more like scum justifying his artificial read than town honestly scum hunting, maybe? "Why the list post :/" also just feels like reaching for easy justification of his read by pointing and shouting "list! list!". Maybe someone else sees why this post bothers me, I don't know if I've quite put my finger on it. I don't like how fast this wagon is taking off, and I think all 3 lurkers need to be posting today, so I'd like to hear from FatChunk on who he thinks we should lynch: ##Vote: FatChunk | ||
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My lynch candidate will depend a lot on how they act today. This is why I don't think that we should form a consensus on Kick too early, FC and Orange need to post too. Right now my ordering is Kick ==> FC ==> Orange, but that will change. What I see in FatChunk: He's disappeared when the pressure is off of him, which is troubling. He posted a lot of fluff that didn't really help at the beginning of the game, but hasn't done anything since then. He resisted the Spag lynch hardcore, possibly trying to look good after the flip, and jumped on the Omni wagon, specifically lynching for information. This specific post feels weird: On December 23 2012 06:15 FatChunk wrote: I'm just curious, why would you assume it's scum RB? ... The way that he prefaces his question with "I'm just curious" makes it sound like he's trying hard to distance himself from the scum rb. If he is the scum rb, he would be nervous about being too curious about the roleblocks. I know that I (and several other players) would just directly ask him the question, using curiosity as an excuse feels bad. Like the Kickstart posts, not a dealbreaker, just something that felt weird. I'm really waiting for the lurkers to start posting. | ||
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On December 27 2012 01:25 cDgCorazon wrote: To me, their activity levels (Kick, Orange, and Shz) are all kind of at the same point. However, Shz has shown slightly more promise with some of his recent posts. You guys have said it: kick's lack of activity is not a trademark of his town play. If he was only inactive for a couple of days around Christmas, that would be ok. However, he has basically been a non-factor in the scumhunt since D1. In my mind, it is Orange or Kick. I would be happy with lynching either of them today, and the other one next. They both have not stepped up enough to the scumhunt to be a part of this town. I've already said this: Kick's lack of activity is not a trademark of any of his play. His meta does not support this play from either alignment, it's a null point. Why not FatChunk? | ||
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Orange: On December 24 2012 02:37 Orangeremi wrote: I'd like to argue that I haven't made a case in over 100. All game, even. Why did you post this? Still waiting for our lurkers to come out with who they want to lynch... | ||
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On December 27 2012 08:08 Aquanim wrote: So, Orange, shz, Kickstart, and FatChunk, who do you think we should be lynching today? FTFY | ||
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On December 27 2012 13:42 shz wrote: ... This is really hard to get a grip on and in no way I am confidend in this days lynch. Fuck. Were you more confident in the other lynches? Seriously, this is the definition of the "hand-wringy scum thing" that marv talked about with Kickstart in XXXI. It's a lot easier to take a stand as scum if you act really uncertain about it, and that's exactly what he's doing when he's pressed for reads. Shz hasn't been confident in a single lynch all game. He nearly completely ignored the lynches d1 and 2, and didn't even vote for someone d2. Not only is this the scum trait of being uninvolved in lynches, it shows how the above quote is bs. There's no reason for shz to act all uncertain about todays lynch when he hasn't participated in any other lynch. By doing this, he also excuses himself from giving any confident scumreads, like he's been avoiding all game. He's being pressed for reads so he chooses the easy one but acts nervous to make himself look better when he flips town. I would be up for a shz lynch. At the very least, I'd have a very hard time voting Kickstart because of this. | ||
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On December 27 2012 08:01 Orangeremi wrote: I found it difficult to knock any holes in the case. As town, starting the game with a vote for someone is a great way to trigger discussion and get things off in the right direction. Very possibly his intention. I see no townie explanation for the way he voted Corazon, possibly laziness. With Spag, he just hopped on the wagon. Nothing special for scum or town. And I think his vote for Chrom is justified to throw another opinion/point of view on the table (although rather poorly, not that I'm one to talk.) I don't understand why he would give up on defending Omni. His defense was perfectly sound, especially when Omni flipped town. Overall, I'd suppose a scum vibe. Although looking over his posts it wasn't at all my initial thought. His post voting for Chrom seemed townie to me, and his more recent advocation to go after lurkers seems so as well. ... Why is shz a scum vibe if you see all these townie things in his filter? | ||
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On December 27 2012 08:08 Aquanim wrote: So, Orange, who do you think we should be lynching today? | ||
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On December 28 2012 02:14 shz wrote: I explained why I'm not confidend. But being not confidend seems to be scummy, so if I just pull something out of my ass you will be satisfied? I don't think so, thats why I will not do it. I see the points on all the candidates, but I don't feel overly strong towards anyone. FC still didn't contribute anything. I would lynch kick and FC at least for t he lurking and on top of them for leaning towards scum. But I'm not vonfident that they will flip scum, but at least flip lurker. I will not spam two pages of player X IS 100% SCUM. That seems like your approach to his game. Uh, two posts. I said that in two posts. Not spam. The problem is that you haven't been confident in anything all game long. You have not taken a single stance all game. You didn't even vote on d2. D2 you blamed lurkers to excuse yourself for not having a a single strong scumread. There is NO reason for a townie to not even try to push their preferred candidate to lynch, but you didn't even vote. And now, you excuse yourself from having a scumread by talking about how unconfident you are. I would rather you spam "100% scum" than do what you're doing now. | ||
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If we assume that all three scum are in this group (excluding myself, Aqua, Cora, and cake): Kickstart FatChunk Orangeremi Syl shz and we assume that certain people are not in a scumteam: shz + Kick (Kick's top scumread was shz, pushed shz a little, shz will probably vote for Kick) Syl + Kick (Syl was one of the first to vote for Kick, still voting for Kick) Orange + FC (Orange is voting FC, has also voted him in d1) The only possible scumteam left is: shz + Syl + (Orange/FC) I don't see any scumteam that doesn't include shz and Syl, and I see no scumteam that includes Kick. | ||
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In fact, I think that this, along with his other scummy posting, is enough to warrant a shz lynch today: ##Unvote ##Vote: shz | ||
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I'm on my phone, so I can't quote posts, but he's just very uninterested in who is lynched. | ||
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Voteswitch time, everyone. | ||
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On December 28 2012 08:47 Aquanim wrote: Well... it's slightly more town than parking your vote on someone with no explanation who flips town, and then leaving without trying to learn anything or generate any new information. Which is what FC and Orange did, I believe. Same for Kick, with the exception that his vote was for Shz (who hasn't flipped). I disagree that it's more town than that, first of all. Townies can be bad at explaining themselves or pressuring, scum are the ones who have a hard time finding scumreads. Also, Kick didn't do that, and he's the one that we're lynching. | ||
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So this basically clears shz. Orange and FC look very bad from how they tried to switch onto shz at the lat moment. They're really the only scummy players left in the game. | ||
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Omni flips town after I was super confident in his scumminess. I was still suspicious of shz, but I was far less confident and think that a lurker lynch is better at this point. You can see that I was still suspicious of shz, I was posting things about that. I vote FatChunk as pressure. The Kick wagon was taking off really fast and I wanted to hear from all lurkers today, so I put some pressure on him. shz posts something that I find very scummy, I write a post about it and say that "I would be up for a shz lynch today". I start pushing shz more and become more confident in my read on him, far more confident than what I think about the lurkers. I then come up with my amazing pre-flip association theory that I pretty quickly realize is a bad idea and start pushing shz hard until the lynch. So basically: 1. Tell people not to lurker lynch because of confidence in Omni 2. After Omni flip, think lurker lynch is good. 3. Not convinced on any lurker, see shz as way scummier. 4. Start pushing shz. Why I changed from lurker lynch to shz: unconfident in any lurker reads, confident in shz scum. | ||
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On December 28 2012 09:45 Sylencia wrote: Having a framer in play suggests there's a Cop in play, right? No, XXXI had a framer and no cop. Also: On December 28 2012 07:10 Aquanim wrote: If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today. Don't know why scum would bus if this wasn't the case. | ||
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Also, I wrote a case on FC d1 and pressured him all day. | ||
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It's an irrelevant question? I think that both are scum. Both of their vote posts are bad, both of them were scummy anyway. If I absolutely had to choose one, it would probably be FC because I think that he's scummier and his post is more contrived. | ||
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On December 28 2012 08:58 FatChunk wrote: okay well I think that either of the two people are scum: sHz and kickstart, and to be honest the last post of shz on the 27th was really scummy to me. I hope we're right. ##unvote ##Vote: sHz On December 27 2012 14:30 shz wrote: Ome thing to note though, which seems very odd to me. If we misslynch today, we pretty much fucked, so it should be in scums interest to direct us towards a misslynch, to nearly lock that game down. But there seems to be no oposition towards lynching Kick. Could this mean that mafia is fine with that lynch? Which would mean we are wrong. Really? This was shz's last post on the 27th by forum time. By what reasoning did you somehow decide that this post, made a while ago, somehow suddenly made shz scummier that Kickstart? | ||
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On December 29 2012 09:12 cDgCorazon wrote: GG Aqua. So you're basically saying that Orange and FC are both scum, and that you switching was not part of this scum move? ... I'm addressing cakepie's point that the whole scumteam switching is too good to be true. I'm demonstrating why it would have been a good idea for the whole scumteam to switch. | ||
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##Vote: Orangeremi No scumread on shz all game, had a scumread on Kick all game, but switches to shz anyway with no reasoning. Also useless all game, etc, etc. | ||
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You keep quoting that like it's something super scummy, it's not. I agreed with what Aqua was saying, and I didn't have time to post something. So, half joking, I said to sheep Aqua if I died. You also act like people voting Orange is my fault..? I've been one of the biggest contributors to this game since D1. If you think that I'm scum, make a case. Otherwise, get your vote somewhere useful. I will admit that I thought we were in a better position than we actually are. shz's post, especially the point about Orange voting FC when the votes were close, make me doubt that it's both of them. FC needs to explain himself more than Orange does, and I agree that a big vote lead for Orange won't make that happen: ##Unvote ##Vote: FatChunk I particularly don't like how he downgraded his read on Kick after the lynch. He first said that Kick was his top scumread, but then said that "he was a lurker more than anything" after. I also still don't like the agressive last line of this old post, + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote: Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. I would also like to point out that FC completely ignores Kickstart until D3, at which point he makes him his top read. Could be a coincidence, or could just be good timing to say that because they were planning a bus. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 28 2012 13:30 Chromatically wrote: @FatChunk Really? This was shz's last post on the 27th by forum time. By what reasoning did you somehow decide that this post, made a while ago, somehow suddenly made shz scummier that Kickstart? On December 29 2012 23:58 Chromatically wrote: ... I will admit that I thought we were in a better position than we actually are. shz's post, especially the point about Orange voting FC when the votes were close, make me doubt that it's both of them. FC needs to explain himself more than Orange does, and I agree that a big vote lead for Orange won't make that happen: ##Unvote ##Vote: FatChunk I particularly don't like how he downgraded his read on Kick after the lynch. He first said that Kick was his top scumread, but then said that "he was a lurker more than anything" after. I also still don't like the agressive last line of this old post, + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote: Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. I would also like to point out that FC completely ignores Kickstart until D3, at which point he makes him his top read. Could be a coincidence, or could just be good timing to say that because they were planning a bus. | ||
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On December 24 2012 01:04 cDgCorazon wrote: This satisfies me as well. I feel like it explains the things you were accused of. Good job defending yourself, just keep up the scum hunting. ##unvote Is there a particular reason that you ignored this post, Corazon? After you presented your first case, you said that it had satisfied your accusations. | ||
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On December 30 2012 04:32 FatChunk wrote: Okay first off I'd like to say that I was roleblocked last night. I went back and read the comments from ~page 63 on and will address comments made regarding my play: @Chrom regarding shz's post on 27th the post i referred to regarding shz was a different one. Dec 27 13:42. Scummy to me because he is lynching for information, and and declares kick the scummiest and decided that he will probably vote for him. no confidence, no assertion. No confidence in lynch at this point in the game - what does this mean? can we never trust shz's sheeping vote for his own opinion? Note that this is pre-lynch. @cake, all My vote for shz was prompted by chromatically. Quite simply, I thought that sHz would be a better lynch and the decision was not based solely on shz's post I am referring to. I wanted to stand by my read at that point in time. 5-3 to 4-4 would result in kick being lynched anyway, and it was clear that only one of the two were scum. My read changed based on posts from chrom, kick, and so my vote changed. i.e. to sHz. I didn't think about the repercussions of voting so late, and to be honest, I probably would have still made the same decision. I sheeped to Chrom on the premise that scum reads come before lurker reads. On December 24 2012 03:03 FatChunk wrote: Well so far I'm going to have to vote for Omni tonight because lynching omni gives us the most amount of information. Also I pin him as someone trying to cover up a slip, especially because he puts the FoS on me when it was not only me who shares suspicion on him and chrom. I guess I am an easy lynch-target? Then he proceeds to vote orangeremi because he is the only alternative, and then posts 1 sentence on his justification for his vote. ... ##Vote:OmniEulogy ? Also, what posts of mine changed your mind from Kick to shz? If scum reads come before lurker reads, why was Kick your top read for D3? | ||
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That being said, I'm not sure what else there is to say without FC responding to things. I'm pretty convinced on FC, much more so than Orange. Syl lynch is a bad idea for today, FC and Orange look worse. | ||
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On December 30 2012 15:41 FatChunk wrote: @Chrom There were numerous posts by you before i changed my vote to sHz: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2012 07:25 Chromatically wrote: That's a good point. I think it's less likely though, given that Orange has voted FC before. Also, I think that Kickstart would have been a better bus candidate, given that he has 0 influence with the town. In fact, I think that this, along with his other scummy posting, is enough to warrant a shz lynch today: ##Unvote ##Vote: shz On December 28 2012 07:40 Chromatically wrote: He hasn't been scumhunting or even caring about the lynch. d1 he sheeped some cases, d2 he defended Omni and didn't even vote. Especially during d2, there's no way that he's honestly scumhunting but is unable to find a scumread to vote on d2. I'm on my phone, so I can't quote posts, but he's just very uninterested in who is lynched. On December 28 2012 08:18 Chromatically wrote: In fact, you can ignore the thing I posted. There's no reason for a townie to not care at all about the d2 lynch. No pushing, no voting, nothing at all. Not town behavior. Voteswitch time, everyone. You influenced my vote to be moved to shz. sHz was not caring about the lynch, he sheeps, and votes null. I was sheeping kick. They were both top scum reads to me and so I thought either would be a fine lynch to get either, especially with you backing that switch too. cake i can do that, sure. ##Vote: Orangeremi Regarding who my reads besides orange and syl? the rest are probably town then. Am I missing something? I am still a little suspicious of shz, kick could have easily attacked shz early to get shz far after he [kick] gets lynched for lurking. Will post once more with lots of time before the lynch, but it looks like its me or orangeremi. thus i will save my post on sylencia, shz, for the next days' discussion. That was almost all stuff that I had said before, on N1. The sheeping stuff has been out there, not caring about the lynch has too. The only new thing that I presented was his lack of a vote on d2. You still haven't explained why you think that shz's post promoting lynching for information is scummy after you proposed lynching Omni for information. This feels too much to me like scum searching for justification to justify his artificial voteswitch. | ||
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Your stuff on Syl is hypocritical. You accuse Syl of pushing the easy lynch of threesr, which was something that you did early game. You say that he is altering his reads based on the direction that the town is moving in, which is exactly what you do (Omni, shz switch, Orange). You accuse him of having no original scumreads, something that holds true for you as well. You say that he only comes forward when lurkers are targeted, but you only come forward when you are targeted. Then you say that he is a hypocrite, but don't point out anything hypocritical? I'm saying this not to invalidate your case against Syl, but to point out that your own points about why Syl is scummy apply to you as well. On December 31 2012 04:46 FatChunk wrote: ... Aside from corazon, has voted for each lynched player. The Corazon lynch wasn't taking off yet he decided not to switch his vote. Spag, most likely one of sylencia's town reads, was lynched. ... What does this mean? | ||
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You had a town read on Spag, but you didn't defend him either. Why does it make him scum if you, a townie, also did it? | ||
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On December 31 2012 07:22 cDgCorazon wrote: At least FatChunk is giving us something. Even though he's under pressure, he's still coming out with his scum reads, whether they may be good or not. Orange hasn't even voted yet. What do we do if he gets modkilled (or if it looks like he will get modkilled)? Yes, he's giving us something, under pressure, in the hopes that we won't lynch him. That's not alignment indicative. The only reason that you've given for lynching Orange over FC is that Orange doesn't defend himself, something that is not beneficial for either alignment. Do you have any other reasons? Do you think that FC is scum? | ||
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It seems that you really think that Orange is far more scummy than FC, but your only reason is that Orange hasn't defended himself. We're not voting FC because he has a bad argument, we're voting him because he's scummier and his argument doesn't convince us. Just the fact that FC voted shz right after Orange should make him scummier than Orange. | ||
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FC's voteswitch is worse. FC first had a better read on Kick, but switched to shz based on stuff that I had already posted in N1. Orange switched because scum were fine with us voting Kick (which they were), which is consistent with what he's said during the day. FC's vote also came just after Orange's, meaning that he saw the opportunity to save his buddy and took it. The lack of defense from Orange, on the other hand, doesn't support either alignment. In fact, it supports the bad bored townie hypothesis better than it does the scum one. Scum would be out here doing everything they can to avoid being lynched. | ||
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The 1-1 theory is probably true. Orange and FC were roleblocked on consecutive nights, but there was a second roleblock on both nights. This means that neither of them are the scum RB, so someone else must be. This of course assumes no fakeclaims, so it's not foolproof, but I think that it's probable. If FC flips scum, I'll look at you. If Orange is scum, I'll look at Syl. | ||
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On December 21 2012 10:08 Chromatically wrote: Theses are the people that need to post more: -Kickstart -Orangeremi -Sylencia -threesr (during the second half of d1) - It's nearly impossible to get a read on you if you're all lurking. One day is excuseable, more than that is not. There were many chances to comment on things during the day that you didn't. I think it's very likely that at least one scum is hardcore lurking and it's working because multiple town are also lurking. Kickstart and Syl have said that they have time problems, I assume that you'll be able to post more going in to d2. Orangeremi I see as particularly suspicious out of this group for being lurky all day for no particular reason. tl,dr; don't lurk so that we can find the scum. The first word is not a typo, along with the extra list space. The first sentence has 9 words, the list has 5 spaces. It's a reference to Martin Luther's book "95 Theses". My RB crumbs are all night posts where I reference a person with two sentences starting with "R" and "B". First night was Omni, then Orange, then FC. On December 22 2012 04:52 Chromatically wrote: @OmniEulogy Read on shz? By now you should have had enough time to look through his filter. On December 25 2012 00:38 Chromatically wrote: Right now, I think our choices for today (tomorrow) are: - kickstart - orangeremi - fatchunk - sylencia By looking at their filters, fatchunk and Orangeremi look the worst. I agree with things that have been said about Orange, he's been a useless lurker this whole game, hasn't taken any difficult positions. FatChunk said that he'll be more useful d2, but hasn't done anything. He also jumped onto Omni right when his death was looking certain, specifically citing his reasoning as "giving the most information". I'm inclined to go for Orange tomorrow. This one, Orange's name was the only one I capitalized in the first part, to emphasize his significance. On December 28 2012 13:30 Chromatically wrote: @FatChunk Really? This was shz's last post on the 27th by forum time. By what reasoning did you somehow decide that this post, made a while ago, somehow suddenly made shz scummier that Kickstart? | ||
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I roleblocked Omni, Orange, and FC, it says so in my roleclaim post. These are consistant with my scumreads at that time. Why wouldn't you crumb your night actions? | ||
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To think that I had 2 scum caught on D1... | ||
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TIL that preflip association cases are a pretty bad idea. | ||
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Also, my comment about me being "practically a vet" was a total joke, I think some people in the obs QT missed that... | ||
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On December 31 2012 13:28 Dandel Ion wrote: I know I just said what Hapa said, but YOLO. <3 | ||
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