EPTWitchcraft Mini Mafia
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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I'm going to have to make some larger policy-post regarding game mechanics in a bit. But how y'all doing? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Also if you guys are town, being active and open is the best way to go about things. I'm not a fan of lurkers (especially in minis), so try to avoid being a party-pooper mmmkay? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Are you brand new to the game, or is this a smurf account of some sort? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 06:40 threesr wrote: I played on epicmafia.com a bunch of times, that is pretty much all my experience. Do you have any links to some past games of yours I could read over? Also a rundown of your playstyle would help - are you active/spammy/whatever? Do you advocate any policies or policy-lynches? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Talk to me about Draz's first post. The more I read it, the more it rubs me the wrong way: On December 15 2012 06:38 drazak wrote: Yeah I have no idea who the fuck those people are. Careful, if I don't like you I'll get aggressive and call you things like "jacket fuck", It seems very overly posturing for an opening post. In addition, the town-Draz I've seen (from GSL III Mini) is a lot more passive and cooperative than this. Thoughts? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 06:56 threesr wrote: I was banned from epic mafia so I cant link you to any of my games. My playstyle tends to be lurking and stuff mostly. Is there any way we can avoid the "lurkiness" this game? Post! We won't bite (atleast I won't. I think.). | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 07:30 threesr wrote: A vote for what to be lynched? A vote for himself to be lynched in ~47.5 hours when the D1 deadline hits | ||
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On December 15 2012 07:49 DoYouHas wrote: The setup is actually pretty straightforward. The only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that we really need to avoid giving out town reads. It is generally a bad idea to post town reads. But even more than that, town reads could point scum towards blues. Just don't do it. I'm interested in this. What policies are you looking to advocate? aside from the one I just mentioned above, I didn't see any kind of setup specific policies that make sense. Well I haven't come up with any that have made sense yet. I was originally thinking about some sort of blue-claiming/campaigning thing but then I read the 2-shot blue vigi role. It seems the best way to play this is to make things straightforward - keep all blue votes silent and don't talk about them much in the thread. If you do end up getting elected blue and survive the 72 hours, it may very well be worth it to claim after you're safe or something though. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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What do you make of MrZ's self-vote? | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 09:47 drazak wrote: Where is everyone. Come up with any new policies yet Hapa? Not that I could think of. Or at the very least, none worth disclosing at the moment. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Regarding not mentioning town reads... no way. Scumhunting involves discussion of town-reads by nature. Futhermore, town reads are fairly subjective and generally aren't shared by a playerbase. Living in fear of bluevigis to the point where we hamper our scumhunting is unacceptable policy. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote: Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can. I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive... The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it. In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored. | ||
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Hapahauli
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What does this even mean? [Quote]Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ? ##Unvote ##Vote Hapa[/Quote] I can also randomly speculate that you're the witchhunter given your obsession with the role, but that won't do me much good, nor serve any purpose for scumhunting. | ||
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Hapahauli
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+ Show Spoiler + You can only vote for one no-vote. What does this even mean? Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ? ##Unvote ##Vote Hapa I can also randomly speculate that you're the witchhunter given your obsession with the role, but that won't do me much good, nor serve any purpose for scumhunting. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Even though it may be against the spirit of the setup, I'm all for just never using the votes at all and playing a more normal town-favored setup. | ||
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Hapahauli
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##Vote Djodref There's no reason you should be this obsessed with blues and the witchhunter unless you're mafia yourself. On top of this, you've pushed a plan that's anti-scumhunting. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 11:06 Djodref wrote: @ Hapa I cannot believe you didn't read this... Yeah so what? That means that we can choose not to give the power to anyone. | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote: Wow your an idiot. ##Vote: Djodref. Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless. Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous. Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored. There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far. So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one. Well I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's super town favored, but 10-3 is a pretty good deal. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: I'm not retarded, I'm town, I'm interested into the way I should use my witchcraft votes, obviously you both don't So answer me this Djo: 1) Why are you so fearful of the witchhunter? 2) Why are you pushing a plan that compromises our scumhunting? 3) True or false: a 10-3 VT-Goon setup is town favored. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 11:12 Djodref wrote: Yeah, that means that your policy of not voting anyone is impossible. I don't think that a town Hapa would not care a bit about how he can use his votes. You couldn't have come up with this idea if you had read the OP, which was the first thing I did when I got my PM. The hell are you talking about? It explicitly states there that we can chose to vote for no one if we want to. | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:15 Djodref wrote: I have 3 witchcraft votes, why do you think you only have one ? This is how voting works according to the OP: Either we cast 3 votes on 3 separate people. Or we cast 1 vote saying we don't want to vote anyone. There's no middle ground (i.e. you can't vote for only 1-2 people, it's either 3 or nothing). | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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So ##Unvote | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 11:27 kushm4sta wrote: "in not retarded I'm town" -djo does that strike anyone else as an intensely scummy thing to say? not sure why but i read it and my scumsenses went off the charts. Actually kush, talk to me about that a bit. What about it would you see as scummy? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote: Wow your an idiot. ##Vote: Djodref. Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless. Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous. Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored. There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far. So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one. But as it turns out, Djo was right. And then DP turns around and completely forgets about it and tunnels him for the opposite. On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote: Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit. Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? But on top of all this, he has one vote on him, and he's already whining... On December 15 2012 11:55 DarthPunk wrote: Fuck I hate playing town. People always want to lynch me day one. Source: my last three town games. and this game. Lynch this sucker. He's scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Regarding your tunnel on Djo, do you actually believe he's scummy, or are you forcing yourself to tunnel him, or are you scum? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Let me type up the complete rendition of the case then. In the mean-time, on to your "defense" On December 15 2012 12:10 DarthPunk wrote: No. the vote wasn't for voting against your plan. It was for voting you when there was absolutely no reason for you to be scum. I didn't really care about the plan at all. It was also for being an idiot about not sharing town reads. I didn't change the reason Ivoted for him. The reason I voted him still stands regardless of the fate of your 'idea' he was voting you for absolutely no reason and was justifying it with something that was not alignment indicative. The thing I noted later was not the 'new' reason for my vote but an ADDITIONAL reason. Also whining is not alignment indicative. Which you should well know. I whined as town in Mario. Your case is a dog that needs to be put down. I actually can't see town hapa making a case this horrible. But I have seen scum hapa make shitty cases like this. ##unvote ##vote: hapa Whining itself isn't allignment indicative. Whining when there's no reason for you to do so (i.e. one vote on you) is. Secondly, your tunnel reads as incredibly forced. I'm pretty convinced at this point that Djo is townie. All his reactions have been very guenuine, even if his plan was bad. I find it inconceivable that you think Djo is scum at this point given the whole setup mechanic thing is now resolved. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Strange Tunnel on Djo On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote: Wow your an idiot. ##Vote: Djodref. Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless. Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous. Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored. There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far. So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one. Two things to note about the red/bolded passage: 1) DP does everything short of sucking my dick here. He buddies me just about as hard as you can in this passage. For example, I made no claims that a 10-3 setup is "super town favored." Nor is it actually "super town favored." Yet he goes and exhalts my idea as "really really good." 2) One of DP's main reasons for suspecting Djo at this point is that Djo disagrees with my assessment on the 10-3 setup thing. Part of the implication here is that DP agrees thtaThis is odd, considering his next post. On December 15 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote: 1- you are valuing blues to highly 2- That is a ridiculous proposition 3- So you were voting someone for a plan that was impossible. But you knew that. So you are essentially voting for someone for not reading the OP? Do you think town or scum are less likely to read the OP? Despite agreeing with my "10-3 setup" stuff earlier, DP all of a sudden is assuming that Djodref is correct in his setup theory without any clarification from the mod in the mean time. This doesn't make sense at all. How could you agree with my comments and speculation, then go and post something like this? Very simply, DP lost track of the reasons he was tunneling Djo. His tunneling doesn't have a townie thought-process behind it - he's just trying to heap as much suspicion on Djo as he can. This is pretty clear by his next post on the subject: On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote: Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit. Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? This sounds so desperate to me. It's very clear by now that the argument between me and Djo is simply a misunderstanding of the OP, yet DP twists the hell out of his words and flips a shit. Other Stuff: Firstly, DP's first post: On December 15 2012 08:48 DarthPunk wrote: sup kids. I hate policy talk. That is my policy. I am vanilla town. The only purpose of this post is to stifle discussion. There's zero reason you should be so against policy talk before it even starts. Secondly, when I vote him - mind you I'm the ONLY person to be suspicious of him so far - he whines about it: On December 15 2012 11:55 DarthPunk wrote: Fuck I hate playing town. People always want to lynch me day one. Source: my last three town games. and this game. The whining is completely disproportionate to the suspicion put on him. In addition, DP doesn't hate playing town. Fact. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Two things to note about the red/bolded passage: 1) DP does everything short of sucking my dick here. He buddies me just about as hard as you can in this passage. For example, I made no claims that a 10-3 setup is "super town favored." Nor is it actually "super town favored." Yet he goes and exhalts my idea as "really really good." 2) One of DP's main reasons for suspecting Djo at this point is that Djo disagrees with my assessment on the 10-3 setup thing. Part of the implication here is that DP agrees that my voting theory is possible. This is odd, considering his next post. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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One of the things rather offputting about your gameplay so far is your "anger." For example, you were rather peacable in the opening of Rockband Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=87209 You were asking questions to one of the newer players (drazak) and overall trying to keep a cooperative atmosphere. Here, it feels like you're tunneling Djo in the most forced manner possible. I find the "tunneling bad town" in such an aggressive manner rather hallmark of your scumplay. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 13:04 Hapahauli wrote: @ DP One of the things rather offputting about your gameplay so far is your "anger." For example, you were rather peacable in the opening of Rockband Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=87209 You were asking questions to one of the newer players (drazak) and overall trying to keep a cooperative atmosphere. Here, it feels like you're tunneling Djo in the most forced manner possible. I find the "tunneling bad town" in such an aggressive manner rather hallmark of your scumplay. | ||
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Hapahauli
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##Unvote | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Assume for the moment I am town. What do you think of the sheeple on my wagon. Thrawn in particular? Djo seems pretty townie so far. Didn't have much guilt when he was responding, and his early vote was basically due to a genuine misunderstanding. I don't think that Thrawn vote means much. I'll get a hang of his alignment throughout D1 based on how active/engaged he is. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 13:14 DarthPunk wrote: It is unfair to use IRC as info in this game. like. grievously unfair. Perhaps a bit unsportsmanlke, but it's allowed in the rules. I just like ribbing BH really. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 15 2012 13:18 DarthPunk wrote: Right. Why was your case so uncharacteristically bad originally? Well you're not going to get an objective answer to that... | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:23 DarthPunk wrote: It's a genuine question. I have never seen a case that poor from you as town. It set alarm bells ringing immediately. Well in my mind I had posted the "abridged" version. Probably a mix of laziness and that the "idea" I was pushing was rather hard to communicate in writing (involves tracking logic, assumptions, etc). | ||
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I went from point a) to point b) for a couple of reasons: 1) A lot of it is actually explainable by the fact that you were angry 2) Your responses seemed pretty townie. Instantaneous, no-guilt, etc. 3) I started to realize that I was pushing the most active player in the thread, which served very little purpose. 'Dat JieXian Post Daaaaaayum that's scummy. I'm going to have to read through his meta before I'm willing to jump on something like that though. | ||
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Hapahauli
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##Vote: JieXian | ||
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Totally not sarcasm | ||
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Hapahauli
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And kush, you have no right to be suspicious of me for an "overreaching" early D1 case when you've been as useful as a sack of used condoms so far. Your suspicions on Djo ring rather hollow (and pretty fucking scummy) when you quote a 1-liner of his and acknowledge your read as mostly based on gut feeling. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote: I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post. I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on) Based on MrZentor's "uselessness" as you guys termed it, my meta read on him shows that he's acting differently but most of all, if he were scum, he'd have nothing else to do but sit and watch because dp and hapa were in the spotlight and not take any blame. Meaning he doesn't need to participate and make/risk any reads. I mean take a look at everyone else that's posting, they are all reads (be it weak or strong or sheep reads) Saying that "you changed your mind" on a read is pretty easy to do in a post. Why didn't you simply say so? Also, if you changed your mind on a read, why would you even mention an outdated read in the first place? Also, you called us (myself, DP, perhaps some others) all town. That's a problem. | ||
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Hapahauli
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Btw, a handful of one-liner posts does not make you an "active" participant. You still are a lurker, just there are a billion other players who've been even worse. Btw, you mentioned that you would be aggressive this game, but I've seen none of it so far. What gives? | ||
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Hapahauli
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=22#437 My biggest scumread so far is djodref. I'm not going to make a big case because it's mostly a feel read at this point honestly. what's really going on in this post is he is making it clear that the reason he brought up the witchcraft votes in the first place was because he thought it was something town would do, and he brought it up not because he cared but because he thought it would make him look town. The other part of my suspicion is how he reacted under pressure. in the last game I played with him he was town. There was a similar early bandwagon and he seemed like he didn't really give a shit. This game he responded to the bandwagon very attentively. Making lists and responding to everyone. His vote on hapa looked like a panic vote. Hmmmm ok here's an arbitrary case on Djo that's "mostly a feel read." But he's still my biggest scumread. this game is full of lurkers, but I think most of them are going to get modkilled or replaced. I will vote for a lurker who is avoiding modkill, and right now this includes drazak and threesr. But fuck voting for my top scumread, I'm voting for lurkerzzzzzz! | ||
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Also the fact that you were too lazy to look that up adds to the laundry list of concerning things about your play. ##Unvote ##Vote kushm4sta | ||
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I mean never mind your "case" on Djo right? | ||
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Will you be active, or will I have to lynch you? | ||
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I haven't seen you play a game 'round these parts - what's your mafia experience? Are you all caught up to the thread? Any scum/town reads so far? | ||
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On December 16 2012 07:14 drazak wrote: I definitely don't think that that's true, if you're a lurker, you're not influencing the town decision at all. If all you're doing is lurking, town might not be able to get a scum read on on you, but at the same time you can't force a mislynch, or even have anything to do with a possible mislynch, also around these parts, it's a lot more likely you'll be lynched just for lurking if you're a lurker. Yeah sorry I haven't been more aggressive hapa, I want to be, but I'm also was holiday shopping all day, and I'm about to put an ssd in my pc and do a windows install, I should be back to post more around when SPL starts tonight. Also, most of my posts haven't been 1-liners, lol. Mind giving us some of your scumreads (or any reads really)? Haven't gotten much out of you. | ||
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What do you make of JieXian's first post that everyone jumped on? | ||
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I've been pressuring him in part to see his reactions and he's been remarkably calm and collected about things. I hadn't planned on dropping things this early, but he seems to be gone and all this has served it's purpose for now. ##Unvote ##Vote JieXian DYH's post is pretty solid | ||
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On December 16 2012 08:05 Morbidius wrote: ##Vote Jiexian We're already sheeping on him and he's the only one in this game with some real scummyness. The whole MrZ situation caused a lot of reactions but it didn't do anything for me other than raise very light suspicion. As for town reads i'd rather not disclose them at the moment. Well there are several other players that deserve commentary. Howabout Djodref or kush for example? | ||
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Hapahauli
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If y'all are around, we need to hear more from you. Popping in, dropping a vote, and popping out is unacceptable at this point given how inactive you all have been. I expect you all to provide meaningful content since you took the liberty to start the game as late as y'alls did. | ||
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Once. >> | ||
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So when you look at it, the lurker issue really isn't that bad this game. So thrawn, when you say lurkers are making this game "unplayable" that is kinda bs. Wait the fuck? You just got done talking to me about how you wanted to lynch an assortment of lurkers, we have 4-5 players under 5 posts, and lurking isn't a problem? @ CC Aww man - hope everything's atleast a bit better out there. Take your time getting back into things | ||
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On December 16 2012 11:30 thrawn2112 wrote: so I've been told by both dp and hapa that they disagree with my read on kush, but could you guys give reasons why you disagree? He's not all that whiny or angry. Some of his ideas though... good lord. | ||
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On December 16 2012 11:24 kushm4sta wrote: I don't want to lynch an assortment of lurkers. You misunderstand me. I want to lynch everyone I consider unreadable due to lurking, and I hope that is as few people as possible. Under 5 posts doesn't mean you are a lurker. Over 5 posts doesn't mean you aren't a lurker. It's all about the content of those posts. Like right now the only lurkers I really want to lynch is Mr Zentor and threesr. And that will change if they post more. Except threesr because i know he's not going to post more... he said he even said he was gonna do a lurker strat lol So why don't you want to lynch JieXian then? He's far more lurky than MrZ. | ||
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On December 16 2012 11:38 thrawn2112 wrote: ok here's what I probably mean about kush... you mention his terrible ideas... yes the things he's said he'll do this game have been crazy, but that's his meta right? this game however, it seems like they are intentionally dumb. scum kush says crazier things than town kush. he said he's not going to lynch me no matter what... is that a joke? an actual plan? the problem is I couldn't really tell.... it's so different from town oriented thinking I don't know what to make of it. the only reason I have to suspect that town kush could possibly have said that is because he's lynched me over and over for the same reasons and I keep flipping town. Yeah I get where you're coming from. The problem is that he's capable of those things as scum or town. I tend to read him more on emotion though, and him being more collected is more towards his town personality. | ||
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On December 16 2012 14:11 MrZentor wrote: Yeah, it might have but a bit of an exaggeration, but you get point. ' And you have an excellent read on me, knowing that I am purposefully not giving you my reasons as to why I think JieXan is scum. Would a scum take that risk? MrZ, you have to understand that while your "townieness" (if you're town) is self-evident to you, it's not evident to us with your current attitude. Just as easily as it is to argue your way ("scum wouldn't take the risk"), it's also easy to argue the other way ("scum don't want to provide analysis // scum wants to sheep non-confrontationally"). . | ||
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Hapahauli
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Your case against MrZ rings rather hollow. You claim differences in his meta as one of your main points, but you completely failed to address his town game in Paranoia Mini... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383489&user=137099 ... where he played in a very similar style to what he's doing now. Now I don't like his play, but I have no grounds to call him scum yet. It baffles my mind that you made a meta case on MrZ without including his most recent game! So if you believe he's scum, what's the difference between here and Paranoia? | ||
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On December 16 2012 16:50 JieXian wrote: i didn't include that game because I opened the filter and thought that it wasn't over Yes, he's a lot quieter than the other games I read through but you can't deny the existence of reads in the first page of his filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383489&user=137099 It seems pretty similar in content really. Any difference IMO is pretty easily explained by the seeming consensus lynch target in this game atm (you). Speaking of the lynch, at this point I'm less interested in seeing you go after MrZ, and more interested in you read-dumping. The reads you've provided so far are pretty... non-controversial. You have two town-reads on the most active players in the game, and a scum-read on a troll-type player. There are many other people I want to hear your opinions about: Djo, Drazak, Kush... that's the analysis I want to see you provide. | ||
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On December 16 2012 17:19 Morbidius wrote: JX does have a decent case against MrZ, but its not like i trust either of them. Can you give your own thoughts on MrZ? Or anyone other than JX for that matter. | ||
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Also, I'm particularly interested in hearing your reads on Drazak, kush, and Djodref. Though I won't read 'em until tomorrow since I'm going to bed. | ||
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Also I was wondering when someone would make a terrible case on me, and Eywa has delivered | ||
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On December 17 2012 04:42 Eywa- wrote: Civilian lynch: imminent. The hell is this? | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:03 kushm4sta wrote: But DYH hasn't showed up. He posted what he posted just enough to be not considered a lurker then proceeded to lurk. Also what do you like in there?? It's like I read it and I instantly forget what I've read because it's all just so shitty in such a boring an inconsequential way. If it comes down to lynching a random lurker, I don't mind DYH. However, I want to lynch the scummiest lurker. In one sense, I agree with you in that his play has been remarkably "clean." He hasn't posted much, and his one contribution is an "overkill" case against JieXian. However, I can only go and lynch those types of players (and reliably hit scum) when I have reasons not to lynch others. And I have plenty of reasons to lynch players like Erwa, threesr, etc. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:04 Eywa- wrote: Means you guys are going to lynch an acolyte... Also, you're reacting offensively to the fact I called you out, yet you expect it due to the nature of your posts. Your entire strategy seems to be around looking like a mafia member. It's disturbing that you know JX's alignment without having provided any analysis on him. ##Vote Eywa Also, I really don't understand much of your case on me. You accuse me of bandwaggon hopping, when I've been going around and actively getting people to post. My default strategy as town is to go around and pressure as many players as I can to get discussion going. It's on full display in any of my past town games, and I invite you to take a look through my game-history. In addition, you feel that I'm being the "friendly" mafia, when in fact I'm going around and being anything but. Voting and pressuring multiple players is not the way to be "friendly" in this game, and you're vastly twisting my motives with a generic "bandwagoning" term. | ||
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##Vote Eywa | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:14 MrZentor wrote: Eywa isn't scum. -.- Care to explain? | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:15 Eywa- wrote: 1) Nobody should care about your past games, trying to get people to base your play off of past games is pretty scum considering you can be applying the same strategy from either side. 2) You've accused 5-6 different people in today, how is that not band wagon hopping? 3) You expected people to call you out based on your senseless accusations thrown left and right, why act as though it's a surprise all of a sudden? I've accused 5-6 people today since they've all been shitty lurkers. The best way to get people to post is to accuse them of being mafia - then they come out of the woodworks and post. You act like I think all my targets now are mafia. I don't. In fact I'm leaning town on most of my previous targets. But please explain your read on JX, and how you pulled that out of your ass without EVER having posted on him in your filter. | ||
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My vote is on Eywa until he shows that this isn't a scumslip: On December 17 2012 05:04 Eywa- wrote: Means you guys are going to lynch an acolyte... Also, you're reacting offensively to the fact I called you out, yet you expect it due to the nature of your posts. Your entire strategy seems to be around looking like a mafia member. He's calling JX town without having ever posted any analysis on him. I call BS. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:22 threesr wrote: ##unvote jiexian ##vote morbidius Post you twat. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:29 Eywa- wrote: Finally, someone with some sense speaks... I didn't say who was going to get lynched, I simply said it would be a civilian (which is truth, there is no way any of the mafia is going down today, not with this town). Ohhhhhhhh that makes more sense. See this is why you're supposed to address my questions rather than let me get going. ##Unvote | ||
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[QUOTE]On December 17 2012 04:29 Morbidius wrote: [QUOTE]On December 17 2012 04:16 MrZentor wrote: Kush, I'd rather lynch scum than a lurker. We should kill Morbidius.[/QUOTE] Hmm i made some light accusations against you and now you're full on calling me scum? That's quite the overeaction,which certainly doesn't help your case. I already had in mind the fact that you're either very noob town or noobish mafia. Either way a flip is worth more than you. [b]##unvote ##vote MrZentor[/b[]/QUOTE] Justifying lynching a "noob town." I don't think these things are 100% allignment indicative, but it's certainly scummy and the best chance we have for a red flip IMO. | ||
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Just scanned Morbidius's filter. I wouldn't mind lynching him. There was the pre-emptive defensiveness that MrZ brought up earlier, as well as this: On December 17 2012 04:29 Morbidius wrote: Hmm i made some light accusations against you and now you're full on calling me scum? That's quite the overeaction,which certainly doesn't help your case. I already had in mind the fact that you're either very noob town or noobish mafia. Either way a flip is worth more than you. ##unvote ##vote MrZentor Justifying lynching a "noob town." I don't think these things are 100% allignment indicative, but it's certainly scummy and the best chance we have for a red flip IMO. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote: This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post... Q: Were they against lurkers? A: No Oh this is getting rediculous. 1) Everyone's a lurker in the beginning of the game. I pressured anyone who was around 'cause thats all I can do. How the hell do you pressure someone who hasn't posted yet in the first 3 hours? So I pressured DP and Djo. They are now my strongest townreads. You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed. This is a straight-up lie. I've voted kush (when he was a lurker, and the reason he's not is because of MY tunneling of him). I've voted JieXian (when he was lurky, and he still kinda is), I've pressured Draz, and I've voted for your lurky-ass. You're failing to account for the state of the game when I placed my votes. Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping. Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty" "Fact" 1) I haven't "jumped" on any bandwagon. In fact I've been a bandwagon starter. I tunnel people until they convince me they're town or scum. "Fact" 2) It's not a lie, you're just screaming it is "Fact" 3) Yes, what's your point? That's how scumhunting works. You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn. Well I'll probably be dead after N1, it's not going to last too long. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:41 Djodref wrote: Do we need to consolidate on Mondi ? Why is everybody ignoring my proposition to lynch theesr on a policy lynch ? He's playing like lynch-bait. From what kush has been saying, lynching him is literally flipping a coin and praying. Morbidius is both a lurker, and has a pretty decent chance to flip scum. | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:46 thrawn2112 wrote: and we already know that's his plan for the whole game, why should we allow it as a viable strat? Because Morbidius is a viable lynch candidate based on his own play. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=36#718 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=38#746 | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote: You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes. I'm taking more time to defend myself than your case deserves. Apparently you're ignoring it all and refusing to read my defense. So you accuse me of lying when you're simply misrepresenting my filter (a.k.a. "lying"). | ||
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Based on the votecount, the flip, and the dyanmics of the lynch (fairly last-minute), I'd expect scum to have their votes pretty spread out, and not giving a shit about the outcome. | ||
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On December 17 2012 06:12 thrawn2112 wrote: i thought the lynch was bad and was trying consolidate on any lurker lynches i agreed with Yeah, but doing so at the last minute is really really sketch. Starting a bandwagon on Mr. Cheesecake with 5 minutes to go is an absurd idea given how uncoordinated and inactive this town has been. The only thing that could end in is a no-lynch. | ||
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On December 17 2012 06:14 Eywa- wrote: Your last minute antics could have saved the townie... Care to explain yourself? I need to know this as well (since it's not blatantly obvious)... Let me answer this question with another question: Was it in town's best interest to no-lynch? | ||
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On December 17 2012 06:16 Eywa- wrote: Q: Lynching an acolyte is better than no-lynch? A: Is the goal of the game to lynch your own members? (well not yours, but ours) A: Lynching a guy who has a chance to be scum is 100000x better than a no-lynch. Also, you never got around to explaining why you were misrepresenting my filter earlier. Care to explain? | ||
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On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote: This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post... Q: Were they against lurkers? A: No You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed. Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping. Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty" You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn. All this post is lies. I've explained exactly why here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=38#760 Your response has been to ignore all of it: On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote: You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes. On December 17 2012 06:20 Eywa- wrote: 1) Given that the majority of the town (this is if we exclude mafia votes) voted for other people than the guy who got lynched, seems like there wasn't much chance at all that he was a legitimate lynch. 2) Just because you pull shit out of your ass doesn't mean someone misrepresented you. | ||
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Eywa- Introduction: One of my weaknesses as a player is catching more active mafia players. I tend to read into activity as genuinity a little too much. When I unvoted Eywa- earlier, it was partially because of that. While he came into the thread, he all of a sudden was actively pushing a case (against myself), and he looked to me like a confirmation-bias spewing townie. However, when you really examine his play from yesterday, that's just simply not the case. If there's one player that was pushing mafia objectives yesterday, it was Eywa-. Table of Contents: 1) Ewya's "Case" 2) Ewya "Addressing" My Defenses 3) Ewya "Pushing" His Case (or, why this is isn't simply him being stupid town) 4) Post-Lynch Anger ***This one is the most damning*** #1: Ewya's "Case" Against me First let's establish the context of Eywa's case. 1) He was absent for most of Day 1 2) When he arrived in the thread, he started bombing suspicion against a player who had no chance of getting lynched (myself). The second point is the most relevant. It's a very common mafia tactic to bomb a third party case to create chaos in the town. It's also very common for mafia to push a player who has no chance of getting lynched, as they can appear to be useful while not doing anything for the town. Now none of this makes him scum alone (yet), however, when you start to look at the content of his cases, it's very very lacking. Basically Eywa's entire point against me is that I've been "bandwagonning." The spoiler below is his compilation of posts on the subject: + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 23:30 Eywa- wrote: Hey guys, I haven't been lurking... I just haven't gotten around to reading up until now. After reading I see a lot of people saying weird shit that I couldn't really come into this game expecting to hear, but that is basically just written off as different cultural background or different lifestyles. I really can't make a judgement based on that. So, I will go by the very standard... Goal of the game. Generally speaking, the mafia or in this case, the church will want to be on everyone's good side... Thus jumping from band wagon to band wagon to please the crowd with his/her vote. For this reason, I shall vote for the king of band wagon hopping: ##vote hapahauli If you have any questions about me or anything game related to discuss with me concerning my character, please don't hesitate to ask. On December 17 2012 01:44 Eywa- wrote: Just read up, he's hopped onto about 4-5 different people for no other reason than it seemed to be a good idea based on one previous post or because someone said it was a good idea. On December 17 2012 05:27 Eywa- wrote: Are you done lying?.. How do you expect me not to accuse you especially after you make a case for yourself which is blatant lies. That's 1, 2, 3 non-lurkers (if you count myself which you've jumped on... I can find more, didn't feel like picking through the whole thread. You have yet to jump on a lurker. I don't know why you guys are standing for a townie that is supposedly "helping the town by bringing lurkers to post through accusing them" when that reason is a blatant lie. On December 17 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote: This has nothing to do with the timing, this has to do with your claim (which is a lie)... YOU said that you called out lurkers with votes so that they'd post... Q: Were they against lurkers? A: No You've never voted against a lurker and your entire I'm innocent because story has just fallen to shreds through your own ignorance of past actions you've committed. Fact: You've jumped from band wagon to band wagon Fact: You lied about a story that would justify the band wagon hopping. Fact: You've directly accused anyone who's ever accused you just because "they have yet to justify why they're not guilty" You're tracking on very thin ice here, you've been pointing fingers all game, I've kept my eye fixed on the game and I've come to one conclusion at every turn. One way for mafia to avoid making analysis is to be obsessed with irrelevant topics. In this case, Eywa- is obssessed with the idea of bandwagonning. Even though bandwagonning has no relevance to one's allignment, he uses it as a talking point over and over again. But more importantly, he's somehow 100% convinced that I'm scum based on this talking point, which is nonsensical. #2: Eywa- "Addressing" My Defense Initially thinking he was a confirmation-bais ladened townie, I took some time to address his accusations. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=38#760 Here for example, I made a fairly long and well laid out post for why his accusations were wrong. His replies: On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote: You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes. On December 17 2012 06:20 Eywa- wrote: 1) Given that the majority of the town (this is if we exclude mafia votes) voted for other people than the guy who got lynched, seems like there wasn't much chance at all that he was a legitimate lynch. 2) Just because you pull shit out of your ass doesn't mean someone misrepresented you. Eywa straight-up ignores me. He doesn't even read my defense. He doesn't attempt to analyze it. Instead, he keeps screaming "Hapa is scum" without any substance. A townie would atleast attempt to read my defense. Eywa doesn't - he keeps trying to push his suspicion while avoiding any attempts at analysis. #3: Eywa "Pushing" His Case The problem is that Eywa doesn't push his case against me. He's more concerned about justifying his own vote on me rather than convincing others to vote for his top scumread. For example: On December 17 2012 01:30 Eywa- wrote: While you make a decent case against Thrawn, I still think that there is more of a case against hapahauli, thus I will not change my vote. On December 17 2012 03:06 Eywa- wrote: It is not my first time playing mafia, it is my first time playing TL Mafia. Previous character profiles are a nuisance to the town, they generally bring people to quick and unfortunate assumptions, if someone plays a certain way 10 times and are a townie every time, why wouldn't they play the same way once they got mafia? It's common sense... Previous knowledge can be used for serious meta-games, stay away from it. Otherwise, it suffices to say that: I am not going to jump on someone else's band wagon just because it's a popular choice. I will remain with my vote on hapahauli. I don't believe him to be a town. On December 17 2012 05:16 Eywa- wrote: He's randomly hopped onto about 5-6 people willy nilly just because it sounds like a good idea at the time, I'd get rid of him (as I've said from my first post, my mind hasn't changed and there is nothing that has been posted that seems more accusation worthy than how he's hopped around). Look at all the above posts. He's not trying to get me lynched. He's trying tell everyone "Hey! I have a reason to vote this guy!" The ONLY time he ever attempts to get other people to lynch me is the following: On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote: You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes. Look at that weak-ass shit. "Please guys, sway your votes." This coming from the guy who is foaming at the mouth that I am scum. #4: Eywa's Post-Lynch Anger Eywa made this post a couple of hours before the deadline... On December 17 2012 04:42 Eywa- wrote: Civilian lynch: imminent. ... which struck me as really odd for it's pessimism. So what does town Eywa- do when he thinks townies are going to the gallows and he's convinced I'm scum? NOTHING! That's right! Nothing! While the town scrambles to put together a lynch at the last minute, this is what he does in the last 25 minutes: On December 17 2012 05:38 Eywa- wrote: I didn't intend to, if it happened, I apologize. On December 17 2012 05:53 Eywa- wrote: You're not helping yourself... Please guys, sway your votes. He apologizes, half-ass pushes his suspicions against me, and peaces out. Then after doing jack shit about preventing the mislynch, he goes and does this: On December 17 2012 06:09 Eywa- wrote: Q: Which townie predicted this? A: Eywa- I'd like to thank the other civilians for not realising that there are 3 scum and that the votes simply had a very low % chance of adding up to Morbidius being a mafia member. HERP DERP ALL YOU GUYS SUCK I AM AWESOME 'CAUSE I PREDICTED THIS AND DID NOTHING TO STOP IT. In conclusion, lynch Eywa- tomorrow. He's pushing mafia objectives, he has no case against me, he didn't push said case against me, and his post-lynch anger is the scummiest thing I've seen in this thread. | ||
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Way to fight the good fight | ||
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Wow GG no RE | ||
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Nah. Die Scum. | ||
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On December 17 2012 07:54 Eywa- wrote: You pretty much make up my point on your own, I don't see why people even consider keeping you around. Nah. Die scum. | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:04 Eywa- wrote: He's mafia, I'll be voting for him next day. That's cause he knows he will be alive tomorrow Die scum. | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:07 Eywa- wrote: Indeed, I can't be killed by mafia... They know that there is a great chance I'll be lynched next day, why would anyone go after me? So my case is legit then? Good to know. | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:35 kushm4sta wrote: @hapa you got a scum game for me to read? @thrawn are you still without a scum game? Mario Mini Mafia (Lynched D1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440 Newbie XXI (Survived, Scum Victory) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398 Liquid City Mafia (Mod-Confirmed Scum in 3 hours) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=47519 *Only the first page is relevant, I was trolling for most of the game. | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:48 kushm4sta wrote: i think it's shit. And i don't get why hapa is basically telling him to fuck off every time he responds I'm telling him to fuck off because he's scum. Eywa also called me town btw. | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:53 kushm4sta wrote: I think a lot of Ewya's play can be explained by the fact that he thinks something is a scum tell which isn't (pressure voting) That's not really the problem though. Read parts 2, 3, and 4 of my case please. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:19 kushm4sta wrote: ... You should keep in mind that the time during which this happened was a chaotic shitstorm spamfest. It was not an ideal environment to discuss things. Townies aren't scared of posting in a spamfest, since they have nothing to hide. Mafia however, are. The last 25 minutes were a time that we had no solid lynch candidate - a townie would push his top scumread to get lynched here. Instead he did nothing. He didn't push me, and he didn't even defend Morbidius. Yet after the lynch, he goes "oh welp I told you I was right." That's pretty fucking scummy. There was no way his scumpicks were goign to get lynched, so why would you bust his balls over not pushing something that was impossible? That pretty much covers 3 and 4 That's ridiculous. The guy was foaming at the mouth that I was scum, and didn't push his scumread. That makes no sense, regardless of how feasible me getting lynched was. Day 1 isn't it more likely that scum would just latch on to one of the more popular lynches? Stubbornly tunneling you does not make him scum necessarily. I see town do that all the time. Scum certainly can latch onto a popular choice, but scum don't always do that. In fact, making a huge case on a candidate who has no chance of getting lynched is another very popular choice amongst more active scum players. What better way to prevent a town from consolidating and create chaos in the thread than bringing up an entirely new suspicion at the 11th hour? It's not that there's nothing to the case, but it's not even close to 100% certainty, and it doesn't warrant NOPE YOUR SCUM every time he tries to talk to you. Why wouldn't you want more content from him to analyze? There is nothing else to analyze. He's scum. He also scumslipped, which you've ignored for like the billionth time. On December 17 2012 05:27 Eywa- wrote: ... Are you done lying?.. How do you expect me not to accuse you especially after you make a case for yourself which is blatant lies. That's 1, 2, 3 non-lurkers (if you count myself which you've jumped on... I can find more, didn't feel like picking through the whole thread. You have yet to jump on a lurker. I don't know why you guys are standing for a townie that is supposedly "helping the town by bringing lurkers to post through accusing them" when that reason is a blatant lie. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:42 kushm4sta wrote: Scumslip is kind of worrisome but it's not in any way definitive... I did the same thing earlier actually. I called you the strongest town. Yes, but you didn't call me town and then in the same sentence express a desire to lynch me. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:45 kushm4sta wrote: thrawn and hapa you two have your tongues so far up each others asses wtf is going on with that. Thrawn how are you so sure that hapa is town? Can I answer that for him? Because I'm the most active player here and I'm obv town. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:40 Eywa- wrote: I did post in the last 25 minutes and laid more effort to convince people than most. Persisting on something that is impossible is insanity. Your efforts in the last 25 minutes were "please sway your votes." If you think that's a contribution, then I can only shake my head. So what on earth were you trying to achieve yesterday? You were calling me scum for shits and giggles without the slightest intention to push for my lynch? That's exactly what you're saying right now. It was in the town's best interest to not consolidate, you lead them to consolidate on various townies rather than mafia members... How is that in any way noble? How on earth do you know that the people I voted for were townies? You really have no grounds to accuse anyone, you're guaranteed at this point to have AT least a 50% error rate (given how many people you've accused and you've already promoted the death of a towns person who had nothing on his record to make him look suspicious. And this makes you not scum how? The way I see it, there's a 99% chance you're scum, and a 1% chance you're an idiot. | ||
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First I'm a bandwagoner that follows votes around. Now I'm a shepard that leads lynches on people. | ||
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Discuss. | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:06 Eywa- wrote: I don't really understand where this is coming from nor why you think it's valid. On December 17 2012 05:27 Eywa- wrote: ... Are you done lying?.. How do you expect me not to accuse you especially after you make a case for yourself which is blatant lies. That's 1, 2, 3 non-lurkers (if you count myself which you've jumped on... I can find more, didn't feel like picking through the whole thread. You have yet to jump on a lurker. I don't know why you guys are standing for a townie that is supposedly "helping the town by bringing lurkers to post through accusing them" when that reason is a blatant lie. Translation: Hapa's townie, but you should lynch him anyway. | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:08 Eywa- wrote: Yeha, what is a better word to put in this sentence... Admittedly, I should have done "townie", but I mean, that's a detail. It's a rather scummy detail Mr. Scummers. | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:14 kushm4sta wrote: thrawn why is hapa town? Weren't you the guy calling me town earlier? | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:18 Hapahauli wrote: You could also elaborate on that scumread on Mr. Cheesecake of yours at your leisure. At your leisure Eywa | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hapa, Eywa is totes always right about everything. Shouldn't we listen to him? Yeah totally! We should vote for ourselves - we can discuss our plan together in the mafia QT =O | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:28 Eywa- wrote: I was asked who would be next if you were to go. That doesn't mean you can throw out a name, say that he's mafia, and not provide any reasoning for it. So why is Mr. CC mafia? Explain. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:54 Eywa- wrote: Next after hapa would be Mr. Cheesecake because he's mafia. These are some pretty strong, and still unjustified words towards CC | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote: so this is ewyas first forum gameright? and knowing that you actually still think he's scum? I looked at filter and he looks pretty obvtown to me. djo is scum...more tomorrow. hapa or thrawn one of those is prob scum. one of the more quiet lurker people, one of those is probably scum.. I'm thinking dhs maybe jx. Since you're apparently up and about, can you elaborate on this? Perhaps a sneak preview. | ||
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Off the top of my head... DYH's play has been very non-involved. He pops in, offers a consensus opinion, and pops out. I'm not sure if he's scum, but he's one to keep an eye out for. I still think JieXian is mafia. Despite his defense, his voting antics are really really strange. He ends up voting you (Thrawn) at the end of the day and I have no idea where his scumread came from. He was very suspicious of Mr. Cheesecake, had his vote parked on him, then out of nowhere does this: On December 17 2012 05:53 JieXian wrote: Ok join me #Vote thrawn2122 if MrZ was town he was playing noob enough for me to go nuts for him ... so he votes the candidate that one of his top scumreads is pushing? Errrrrrrrg. JieXian justifies his vote with this... On December 17 2012 06:13 JieXian wrote: I was challenging mr cc if he'd remove his vote as he seemed ready to vote for thrawn and he's getting more and more contradictory as he posts ... but it's pretty unconvincing. He voted thrawn to "dare" Mr. Cheesecake to vote him? I'm not really buying it - it reads a lot like JieXian doesn't give a shit about who dies. As for others, Mr. Zentor is quite the enigma to me, though I'm leaning town on him for his willingness to push the Morbidius lynch through. Even if it was wrong, he stepped up and prevented the no-lynch which is townie motivated. Drazak hasn't done much, but I think he's town. A mix of gut-feeling, as well as his passiveness/cooperative-ness is actually one of his town traits. Careful with him - he's an easy guy to lynch regardless of alignment. If for whatever reason Eywa doesn't flip mafia, kush is someone to look at pretty hard. | ||
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On December 17 2012 03:06 Eywa- wrote: It is not my first time playing mafia, it is my first time playing TL Mafia. Previous character profiles are a nuisance to the town, they generally bring people to quick and unfortunate assumptions, if someone plays a certain way 10 times and are a townie every time, why wouldn't they play the same way once they got mafia? It's common sense... Previous knowledge can be used for serious meta-games, stay away from it. Otherwise, it suffices to say that: I am not going to jump on someone else's band wagon just because it's a popular choice. I will remain with my vote on hapahauli. I don't believe him to be a town. | ||
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Exhibit C: On December 17 2012 03:06 Eywa- wrote: It is not my first time playing mafia, it is my first time playing TL Mafia. Previous character profiles are a nuisance to the town, they generally bring people to quick and unfortunate assumptions, if someone plays a certain way 10 times and are a townie every time, why wouldn't they play the same way once they got mafia? It's common sense... Previous knowledge can be used for serious meta-games, stay away from it. Otherwise, it suffices to say that: I am not going to jump on someone else's band wagon just because it's a popular choice. I will remain with my vote on hapahauli. I don't believe him to be a town. | ||
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On December 17 2012 06:09 Eywa- wrote: Q: Which townie predicted this? A: Eywa- I'd like to thank the other civilians for not realising that there are 3 scum and that the votes simply had a very low % chance of adding up to Morbidius being a mafia member. On December 17 2012 06:14 Eywa- wrote: Your last minute antics could have saved the townie... Care to explain yourself? I need to know this as well (since it's not blatantly obvious)... On December 17 2012 07:49 Eywa- wrote: It didn't make sense to push for people to lynch you because they don't want to. I just wanted to throw the idea out there and advice the townies that they'd be killing off another townie... If I had any possibility of describing why he was a civilian in a manner the population of this town could understand, I would. Quite simply, there was nothing I could do to sway their votes. ... And that's just on page 2 of his filter. There's even more on page 3 and 4. | ||
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On December 17 2012 14:42 kushm4sta wrote: w/e he's not scared enough, not "clean" (thanks for that word hapa) enough to be first time scum. Well he's not a first-time scum. Apparently he's pretty familiar with playing mafia in whatever setting he does. Also, not all first-time scum are clean or even passive for that matter. Scum can be active and crazy, but their motivations show while doing so. So he's been defending himself tonight "actively" but has absolutely nothing of substance to show for it. He's screamed that "hapa = bandwaggoning" several times, and made a couple of snide remarks. He's dropped a "Mr. CC is mafia" read and has been resistant to all attempts to get him to explain it. It's an active defense, but it's scummy as shit. | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote: so this is ewyas first forum gameright? and knowing that you actually still think he's scum? I looked at filter and he looks pretty obvtown to me. djo is scum...more tomorrow. hapa or thrawn one of those is prob scum. one of the more quiet lurker people, one of those is probably scum.. I'm thinking dhs maybe jx. | ||
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Please consider checking either Mr. Zentor, DoYouHas, or drazak. Check these guys and claim when you're safe. | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:28 JieXian wrote: ... I was pushing for a no-lynch over someone who I read as townie. Ever since that post below which started making me doubt you, your logic has been terrible and I gave you the BOTD while waiting for you to answer me and after pushing the morbidius lynch and your arguements with eywa you have been screaming schum Where in your filter do you read morbidius as townie? I haven't found it. Also, where in your filter do you even push against the morbidius lynch? I'll give you a hint - you dont. explain that[/QUOTE] It's pretty straightforward. You had a town read on myself and DP, which virtually everyone in the game at that point had a town read on. You also had a scumread on the town troll. | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:24 Eywa- wrote: Hmmm... Since most people seem to think hapa and cheeseboard are town, why don't we meet in the middle and kill djodref.. Who, if you two are both innocent has a very high probability of being scum. Backing down all of a sudden are we? | ||
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Where did you run off to? I asked you a question, and I expect responses for these things: Where in your filter do you read morbidius as townie? I haven't found it. @ Eywa You throwing around names without reasoning isn't doing town any good. Explain why you think Mr. CC and Djo are scum. You've given zero rationale for it. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=52#1029 (First part of this post) Firstly, he's been screaming that Eywa is town without having provided any rationale for it so far. Second, he's misrepresenting his actions regarding the Morbidius lynch yesterday. I'll admit that I missed some of his stuff regarding morbidius in his filter, however, he never talked about why the morbidius lynch was a bad idea (other than "he was consistent against MrZ). He just kept saying it was a bad idea. In addition, his suspicions make very little sense with his voting. His top scumread was MrZ for most of Day 1, yet his votes were on MrCC and Thrawn... wha? On December 17 2012 02:52 JieXian wrote: ... if you have to drop a vote for someone other than morbid, it should be mrz. I'll gladly join His suspicions just don't add up with his votes. He shifts his vote around willy-nilly and it reads like he doesn't give a shit about who dies. As long as it wasn't Morbidius of course, with whom he never explained his town read on. | ||
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On December 18 2012 01:44 JieXian wrote: I called him out on that too and asked him if it's his first game. He said that it was his first on tl mafia. I cannot know what was he thinking but it doesn't appear scummy to me at all, it appeared nooby since it was his first time. Scum would accuse people and latch on to anything they can find. He called him scum without any proper justification or quoting and sticked on to it. I don't see how is that scummy. I'm giving him the BOTD for now, thinking that he'll post something concrete soon. For now, I'm agreeing with him as long as he wants to lynch hapa and mrcc and based on the fact that he wanted to save morbid too. JX, you aren't giving him the "BOTD" - you're calling him "OBV TOWN" and that warrants much more of a justification than what you've been providing. On December 18 2012 01:52 JieXian wrote: He should defend himself I don't like making assumptions on how his thought process works beacuse I can only imagine part of it. I'll just say that there wasn't anything wrong with post lynch anger because it was based on his READ on morb. hapa's complainig that he (hapa) was ignored doesn't say anything because he's been ignoring my questions since yesterday Funny how hapa doesn't see how I was preventing the mislynch lol and was questioning me HAPA YOU made the "mislynch" address that You weren't preventing the mislynch. You never explained your town read on morbidius, you just kept saying it was a bad idea without any substance. Then WELP I'M TOWN SINCE I WAS RIGHT. And yes I was a part in the mislynch. Big deal - I thought he was scum and he didn't flip scum. Just because I wasn't right doesn't mean I wasn't scum. After all, 8 people voted Morbidius, and atleast 5 (probably 7-8) are town. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:00 MrZentor wrote: Yep. I'm not paranoid. Be useful please. Comments on JX and Eywa would be a nice place to start. | ||
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DP was pushing this idea that he wouldn't vote for good town players so that a player like me wouldn't get bluesniped. Seemingly a lot of people followed that idea. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:10 MrZentor wrote: What if we had everybody who voted Hapa claim? That way we can be more sure about his claim of not receiving blue powers. Then you're stupid, because as a blue I would lie here. If people claimed, I would get insta-shot if I was blue. | ||
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Twice, at any point during the game, day or night, you can fire your Silver Bullet by PMing the host. If it hits someone empowered with Witchcraft, they die on the spot, even if they are a Veteran. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:15 MrZentor wrote: No, if you were town, I'm confident the mafia would have already tried to shoot you. I don't discount the possibility, however unless the 3rd scumteam member is someone rather bright, I can see Eywa and JieXian doing just about anything with NK's. | ||
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Where was your justification for the Morbidius read? Secondly, I don't see where my "contradiction" is or whatever. You didn't get votes on you because of your reads - you got votes on you because people thought you scumslipped. The actual reads themselves were rather uncontroversial, as I've explained a bunch of times. | ||
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So I'm town. Lol. | ||
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Please explain your logic here. It seems like you just called me town dawg. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:23 MrZentor wrote: Why not? Hapa should be dead. He's not That means one of the following 1. He is town and didn't get blue a. This is one possibility, and if this is true, there's nothing wrong with us revealing who voted for him. 2. He is town and got blue, the the mafia haven't tried to shoot him. a. But this doesn't make sense, because it is more likely that Hap got blue than DP, so the mafia would naturally try to shoot him first. 3. He is mafia and got blue, but heis lying about it, so he doesn't get caught. a. This is another possibility, and we can see if this is true or not by everybody claiming if they voted for him or not. So basically, we can tell if he's scum or not by revealing our votes, and it's unlikely mafia can do anything about it. You're an idiot, because 2 townies died (of whom we don't know their votes, 3sr didn't vote), and mafia are going to fake-claim votes. There's no way claiming can be reliable under these circumstances. Too much room for error. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:27 JieXian wrote: because scum can't get shot by scum vigis............... ??????????????????? No see that doesn't make much sense. Why would me being alive explain how you know scum didn't take a second shot? | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:30 MrZentor wrote: Yeah, and if scum lie and say they voted for you, we kill you, and you're innocent, then the pool of suspects will have narrowed greatly. Sounds like a fantastic plan. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:35 JieXian wrote: OK I get you. No, I didn't provide a long written out case that he's townie. Nor do I have a long written out case for eywa showing that he's townie I have long written out cases for scum No I don't care about a case. I just care about a reason. Give me the reasons - why did you think Morbidius was town? Why do you think Eywa is town? | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote: beacuse it would have been for the next top witchcraft candidate ie you? And you're sure scum didn't use the shot on annnnyone else in the game huh? | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:39 JieXian wrote: tell me who's the next most towniest person you can tihnk of That would involve me giving you potential blue-shots, and I'm not interested. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The witchhunter can fucking save his shot for later, I don't see the reasons they wouldn't do it. It's sure as hell causing a ton of conflict right now. We cannot be sure Hapa was even shot. We know the witchhunter can have one shot left, or none. Then why the fuck do you want to lynch him? Because he's scum. Christ. Haven't we gone over this? | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:44 MrZentor wrote: I hope you don't honestly believe that. I could say the same. But clearly you do. On December 18 2012 02:44 JieXian wrote: people thought I scumslipped because I gave you and dp suspicion and then called you both townies my supposedly inconsistent read (it was just a train of thought thing) was the sole reason for my near lynch my "read" was intepreted as a scumslip oh my god out of respect for your intelligence you can't possibly be town You're not getting what I'm saying at all. Yes, people thought you scumslipped for your inconsistent read. However, I'm not talking about that when I say your reads are "non-controversial." At that point in the game, it was obvious that me and DP were town. Virtually everyone thought so. You also went after a lynch-bait type player in MrZ. Those are "non-controversial" reads in the sense that you didn't do anything useful. Your read on me and DP was unoriginal (since everyone thought we were town), and your top scumread was just the "troll" of the thread. | ||
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Calls me obvious townie. Says people must have voted for me. Didn't vote for me. Makes sense. On December 18 2012 03:39 thrawn2112 wrote: jiexian idk what you're doing. you aren't making a case against anyone, you're just calling them scum. and people you are accusing have made cases or explained their reads. you just quote random things from the thread and add wifom or snide remarks to them. so what are you doing? JieXian + Eywa scumteam. | ||
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On December 18 2012 03:43 thrawn2112 wrote: it's so obvious that i need to think more about it first JieXian's play is just that level beyond retarded that it has to be scum. You can't be sane or town and think like he's thinking. | ||
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On December 18 2012 04:10 MrZentor wrote: It's unlikely that he's town. It's unlikely, even if he's town, that scum has another bullet. Also, waiting two hours won't stop him from getting shot if he's blue. If the witch hunter has bullets, it can shoot at any time. So why exactly do you think I'm mafia? You haven't given a single reason to think that I am. Basically because I'm somehow not dead before night 1 has ended, I'm mafia? There are a lot of stupid things I've heard in this thread, and that's close to the worst. | ||
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On December 18 2012 05:38 MrZentor wrote: I'm saying it's possible you're mafia, and there would is no disadvantage to having everybody claim whether they voted for you or not. I'm also saying that there's no way such a vote would be reliable (dead townies + 3 fake scum votes). Your response has been "oh we'll just lynch him anyways and deal with it later" | ||
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I've posted mountains on this shit. Just read my filter, I'm not typing it up again JieXian - Kill him. Perhaps first. He's angry and loud, but nothing makes sense in his tunnel or even his filter. Reads as incredibly desperate. Eywa - Pressure him to justify reads. His play is incredibly anti-town, and he should die if he doesn't change his ways. My case + scumslip still stand. DoYouHas - Lurky lurker is lurky. Outside chance of Mr. CC being scum as well, but much less sure on that. His reaction to the MrZ "vote claim" plan was really weird, where he was seemingly very resistant to MrZ's plan and disclosed his votes anyway. MrZentor reads as retarded rather than malicious. Drazak reads as slightly town, but worth a DT check just in case (hard to tell with his meta) You can pretty much assume that I have a town read on everyone else here. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:01 kushm4sta wrote: so what this tells me is that there is at least one veteran (relative to all the newer people) on the scumteam. Sup djo? Also when should witch's claim? Not really up on all the mechanics stuff. K im gonna go take a final now. 69 percent chance of failure. They should claim when they're safe (i.e. after today is over). There also is a supposedly pretty high chance that scum attempted to silver-bullet me, so if a witch has a relevant DT check, it's probably worth revealing. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:04 kushm4sta wrote: @hapa it makes perfect sense to me why you are not dead. Why are you pretending it's a surprise? Scum almost never kill the most obv nk because they think he might be protected. Cause I'm really pissed off I have to spend 72 hours talking to some of these idiots. | ||
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Anyway, ##Vote JieXian | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:08 MrZentor wrote: That's irrelevant as to why it would be a surprise to you. Answer the question. It is relevant. I'm not surprised. I'm pretty fucking pissed that I have to deal with idiots like you. It's more time and sanity than its worth. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:17 MrZentor wrote: Do understand that when you answer with "Cause I'm really pissed off I have to spend 72 hours talking to some of these idiots.", that means you're surprised because "I'm really pissed off I have to spend 72 hours talking to some of these idiots." Try to say what you mean next time. Eh? This makes so much sense. They could make a discovery channel episode about your brilliance. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:20 MrZentor wrote: FINE, I'LL MAKE IT MAKE SENSE. Do you understand that when you answer with "Cause I'm really pissed off I have to spend 72 hours talking to some of these idiots.", that means you're surprised because you are "really pissed off I have to spend 72 hours talking to some of these idiots."? Try to say what you mean next time. Eh? That made even more sense. now you get a time magazine article. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:22 Eywa- wrote: Your cling to defend him suggests one thing, we have to kill him... and then you... or you and then him... Either way, rage on sir! I've posted why JieXian is scum. Several times. In my filter. JieXian wasn't voting for people he thought was scum. He voted the top scumread of his top scumread (thrawn, instead of voting CC). When I called him out for it, he flipped a shit and omgus'd me. He's scum dawg. | ||
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##Unvote ##vote Eywa- | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:31 Eywa- wrote: Hapa, I'm throwing you a bone to prove your innocence, take it or die. No, it's you're turn to die. You're not town. You're not playing to town objectives, and you've spent all of the last two days flinging random shit at players rather than looking for scum. I will make sure you hang. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:34 Eywa- wrote: I've only pointed at you and Cheesecake since the start as primary suspects, how is that flinging shit at "players"? I guess technically there are more than 1 of you. So what's the case on me? That I'm not voting a player that you think is mafia? That I'm not voting a player that you are lynching for the shits of it? On December 18 2012 06:08 Eywa- wrote: ... Let's just lynch him because we can! Who gives a flying #$%@ if he's town or not... Get ready to die. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:43 MrZentor wrote: I don't like how Eywa is playing, but I'm sure he is town. -.- Name one thing substantive in his filter. He's doing nothing but flinging shit around. | ||
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On December 18 2012 06:08 Eywa- wrote: ... Let's just lynch him because we can! Who gives a flying #$%@ if he's town or not... The other time he posted a case (against me), he called me town. It's easy to post and fling shit around and call everyone scum without substance. It's exactly what he's doing right now, and he's going to die for it. | ||
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When you end a case with this, I don't have to read it: On December 18 2012 06:08 Eywa- wrote: ... Let's just lynch him because we can! Who gives a flying #$%@ if he's town or not... | ||
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Still, him wanting to get someone lynched does not make him scum. A no-lynch is worse than lynching a townie. That is not my opinion: that is fact. A no-lynch deprives town of valuable information. Lynching someone that has a chance to flip scum is always the better play. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:50 Eywa- wrote: I'm just curious as to why hapahauli is vouching so hard for cheeseflake when no one else has ever vouched this hard for another person. Furthermore, I fail to see why we would listen to him given that hapahauli is the only one to change his character profile 4 times (next highest being 0) and he has a scumslip to his name claiming that he is scum... What more is needed? I'm not vouching for him. I'm stating that I don't have enough evidence to think he's scum. On December 18 2012 07:48 MrZentor wrote: I don't care whether somebody is pro town or not. I care whether they're town or scum. And Eywa is town. I need to calm down. I'll be back in a bit. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:51 Eywa- wrote: Your argument is silly, no-lynch means 1 dead, lynch means 2 dead... How is faster depleting the town in any way good? You claim to be good at this game, but are incapable of comprehending the most basic scenarios. It's not silly. It's the truth. A mislynch is better than a no-lynch. Think about this - you're drawing all your reads from today based on voting patterns based on Morbidius's town flip. You'd have none of that without the flip. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:53 Eywa- wrote: yet you have more evidence for Jie Xian? lol... you're obviously scum. Yes you piece of shit. I have plenty of evidence for JieXian if you ever bothered to read you dumbfuck. | ||
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So Regarding JieXian: He's simply not voting for people that he thinks is mafia. This post proves it: On December 17 2012 05:53 JieXian wrote: Ok join me #Vote thrawn2122 if MrZ was town he was playing noob enough for me to go nuts for him He doesn't have a scumread on thrawn. By his own admission, he voted thrawn to "dare" Mr. CC to vote thrawn. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=42#834 He NEVER has a scumread on thrawn in his filter. He straight up voted a guy who his top scumread was pushing. Where's the town motivation in that? There is none. Then we get to the "hapa's scum 'cause he's not dead" stuff. On December 18 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote: beacuse it would have been for the next top witchcraft candidate ie you? On December 18 2012 02:40 JieXian wrote: who's townier than you? no one He harps many times about how I'm the only other possible witchcraft candidate in the game. But... He didn't vote me. This makes no sense. Apparently there were other viable candidates (the ones he voted), yet he believes I was the only other possible one. JieXian is scum. His actions make no sense. | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:06 MrZentor wrote: Yet again, people are voting based on whether somebody is pro town or not. Whether somebody is actually scum seems totally irrelevant when deciding who to kill. Yeah, but I think he has a chance at flipping scum. Hell it's tempting to lynch him on the basis that the town would be better off without him. | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:12 Eywa- wrote: actually that's false as proven by my post about him, he clearly voted for someone he didn't think was scum last time since no one would vote for his suspect. Last post on JieXian or on CC? | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:16 Eywa- wrote: On CC, I don't think Jie Xian is scum... He's saved too many townspeople or attempted to. A half-assed attempt to save a townie is not grounds to believe someone is town. It's really easy (and common) for mafia to defend townies they know will hang. They know townies allignment - it's a riskless play for mafia since they know they'll be right. | ||
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Townies are often wrong. Townies don't know allignments. They push emotional mislynches, are easily maniuplated... etc. Scum on the other hand know exactly who's town and who's not. It's really fucking easy for them to defend a townie and claim town cred for it when the townie flips. It happens all the time. | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:20 Eywa- wrote: Wrong, You think that CC actually thought Morb was guilty, on the contrary, he publicly stated otherwise. Also wrong thinking I have a double standard, I don't mind killing jie xian given that there is a potential of him being scum, but I won't do so until I check my hypothesis about cheesegrater. All of your claims about me are proven false, yet you still make them... I don't understand where your logic spurs from. CC wanted to get someone lynched. I told you, a lynch is better than a no-lynch. That's how we play on TL. That's accepted optimal play on virtually every forum-mafia site. If you think otherwise, then you're wrong. Hell I just read your case on Cheesecake. You misread and twist a lot of his posts. For example: Mr.Cheesecake admits to knowing Thrawn is town with no indication that he ever thought otherwise - yet he was gunning for thrawn earlier Okay... I know he's innocent, but I pushed for him up till a second ago? Nice play. Cheeseboard wants to lynch people for the sake of lynching them regardless of alignment In this post, CC is talking in hypotheticals. He's saying "if I was scum, I'd know that Thrawn was town and push him." Yet you misread it and say that he thinks thrawn is town. Your entire case on him is based on misreadings, as well as misunderstandings of what's considered optimal play in Forum Mafia. | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:22 Eywa- wrote: It's more so reason to believe someone is town than a religious hold on proving that there isn't enough evidence to kill your friend while the same evidence is presented about someone else who becomes "obvious mafia"... How do you think this is a good play? It may fly, but that's only because the town has lost sense of the objective of the game. What does this even mean? Listen. I'm saying that it's really easy and common for mafia to defend townies that are certain to hang. It's very common in my experiences on TL. Mafia do it all the time because it requires no risk, and they can claim town-cred for being right. If JieXian had an actual reason to think that Morbidius was town, I would agree with you. However, he just arbitrarily states that Morbidius is town a bunch of times and doesn't do much to prevent his lynch at all. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=66#1306 If there's any contradiction in the thread regarding the whole "blue plan", it's JX. He says I'm the only other logical person to vote other than DP, then says he didn't vote me. This is wierd, because at the minimum, he'd have to vote DP and one other person he thinks is town. In his mind, the idea that "hapa is the only person who could be voted" shouldn't exist since he had to have voted another person. | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I do think we should just say exactly who we voted for. All three go right ahead. Kush Hapa DP there you go guys. I'm just saying --- we can't know 100% that the witchhunter shot him. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry. It's LIKELY, but not definite. It doesn't read like you're frustrated. Also, why would you reveal information that you've been adamant against revealing if you were frustrated? | ||
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On December 18 2012 02:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'll be honest Hapa, I voted for both you and DP. Kinda feel bad about DP... *sigh* Which was : a) before all your ranting on the subject (posted above) b) not very "frustrated" | ||
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##unvote ##Vote JieXian | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Hapa In a way Eywa reminds me of Axle, except Axle was much, much more intelligent. Hard to say my scumreads atm. I've got some townreads but I'd rather not go pants-on-head and reveal them. Gimme some time to catch up, I just had some finals + work Eywa reminds you of a townie from a newbie game and you're voting him? I mean I'm having lotsa reservations about Eywa. Like he's an asshole, he doesn't think, he doesn't read, and he doesn't analyze anything, but he is fearless, and does seem to think he's being pro-town in his own little world. I guess I"m having some trouble determining how easy it would be for him (as hypothetical mafia) to do what he's doing in the thread. Not much substance, but he fires off the responses almost instantly. | ||
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Get in here. Posting a case on MrZ and afk'ing is not acceptable play at this stage in the game. We need lotsa more posting from you. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:39 DoYouHas wrote: If MrZ was town he would have to at least acknowledge that his assumptions might be wrong. And if that possibility exists, then his actions only have a scum mindset. Any town making his assumptions could just as easily test them when hapa was out of danger. They would be no less convincing, even if we will be missing 2 more votes now. MrZ was rolefishing, plain and simple. Like this for example. I've played a bunch of games, coached a bunch of newbie games, and I have yet to see a mafia player "rolefishing." This is something that mafia are largely scared of doing as it draws attention to themselves. I can't see MrZ rolefishing this blatantly. | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Except Axle wasn't scummy at all, Hapa. Maybe I'm OMGUSing here, but I really don't see a situation in which he's town. I'll try to rethink the situation, but if he's actually town, lolwut. There's no question his play has been anti-town. It's just that I can connect a stubborn/obstinant town-mentality to it. More interested in hearing your other reads right now. Work on those plz. | ||
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Where did you go? You dropped this quote: On December 18 2012 07:05 kushm4sta wrote: This might be the scummiest thing you have said so far this game. And peaced out while a bunch of people threw shit at each other. | ||
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Looking through your filter, you had a rather large case on thrawn early. While you've explained why you didn't push him during the lynch, you never followed up on your case. You never mention your stance on thrawn after D1 - why is that? What was your stance on thrawn yesterday? | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Was too busy yesterday focusing on Eywa bullshit, etc. I believe I mentioned somewhere that he posted his list of scumreads --- which didn't include me. I wondered at this, because he thought I was scum / voted for me D1. If he hadn't died, I'd still have a scumread on his ass, and probably push him second to Eywa. Obviously that's not going to happen right now. Well you didn't do much yesterday other than address "Eywa bullshit" and hard defend me. The lack of scumhunting outside your D1 case on thrawn is rather disturbing. And tunneling Eywa really doesn't satisfy the "scumhunting" quota. | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You're such an idiot, please stop talking scum. Just ignore him. This conversation is between you and me right now, and I'm not interested in having Eywa shit up the thread again. | ||
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So right now, I'm interested in hearing about your scumreads. In your newbie games, you're generally really good about providing analysis and pushing reads. That's what I want to see you doing today, and I really want to know who other than Eywa you think is scum. As for Eywa, just ignore him for now. I want to see what else you've got. Eywa exists in his own little world right now. I made the mistake of acknowledging him - don't do the same. | ||
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I'm not sure if you're aware, but Cheesecake is from the area which the US elementary-school shootings took place. These aren't things that people lie about, and you are going to have to give him some space this game. Flaming someone hit with an RL is not conducive towards town goals at all, nor is it morally acceptable. On December 18 2012 11:12 Eywa- wrote: P.S. I'm too fucking busy for this game and your bullshit, stop asking me (The only question I've been asked all game) shit because I've had enough of this game! I'm going to shoot a Civilian and go back to helping out my School. Fuck you guys, I know how to count an 0/3 is definitely higher than 0%! FUCK So when I see something like the above, not only is this an issue with the game, but it's an issue with your attitude and gameplay. You're more than welcome to find him scummy. That's fine. But don't cross the line into antagonistic behavior. That does no one any good here. ~Hapa | ||
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On December 18 2012 11:29 Eywa- wrote: I didn't realise... I generally don't read news, so I don't know what goes on where... I still think he's scum in the game though and nothing's going to change that. Thanks for understanding. I get that your play is focused around riling-up players, calling them scum, and testing reactions, and I definitely misunderstood your motives for most of the game so far. It's something straight out of IRL mafia games, and I'm sure you've had much success with it. However, you have to back off with some players. The situation as I see it with you and Cheesecake is that he ragequit as a result of your pressure. This is pretty sub-optimal for both him personally as well as our efforts as a town. I don't know if he's scum or not, and we're going to have to be more patient with him to find out his alignment. Antagonizing him isn't the way to go here to get anything of value to the town. Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, but I do care about this game, and I want to make sure we can finish it with our respective sanities intact. | ||
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On December 18 2012 11:50 Eywa- wrote: Dr.Chessboard isn't going to be elected in the fall, I must push my vote to someone who might. Please please stop with the name-ribbing. We're not playing the "let's yell at each other game" anymore. We're playing the "let's be calm and rational people trying to find scum" game. Just call him CC, Cheesecake, or whatever - name mixups just aren't necessary. As for your vote, it seems like only two players (yourself and JieXian) would support such an idea right now. I wouldn't call it feasible. However, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about your other "Possible Scum" candidates. You have Draz, Kush, and Djo marked as possible scum, and I'd be interested to hear more on them. Also, you have DYH marked as "not scum", which I find odd considering his lurkiness so far. | ||
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As for his D1 play, I've seen many townies do exactly what he did in the past. I insist that voting for any lynch over a no-lynch is perfectly acceptable (and promoted) town play here. I'm feeling town from CC. I'll re-evaluate that read as I see him post more, everything so far points to a frustrated townie who has some holes in his activity/commitment due to RL troubles. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:39 DoYouHas wrote: If MrZ was town he would have to at least acknowledge that his assumptions might be wrong. And if that possibility exists, then his actions only have a scum mindset. Any town making his assumptions could just as easily test them when hapa was out of danger. They would be no less convincing, even if we will be missing 2 more votes now. MrZ was rolefishing, plain and simple. "Rolefishing" in not a tell. Mafia are often way too scared to rolefish out in the open, and MrZentor is doing it rather blatantly. I've never seen a mafia "rolefishing" in all the games I've played. And even if he is "rolefishing," DYH's case against MrZentor doesn't adequately address why MrZ's idea scummy rather than stupid. | ||
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On December 18 2012 12:11 Eywa- wrote: I think DoYouHas has taken a far too impersonal approach to the game so far... He hasn't really seemed to care what has gone on and generally has just sponged off other people, really doesn't make sense to call him mafia. Also, when attacked he hasn't fled Jie Xian is all over the place without having changed personalities, normally when a mafia member realizes that what he is doing is suspicious, he slowly adapts. The mistakes which you may think Jie Xian makes, he's been making all game, it's not from pressure or anything because while under pressure and not, he's the same. Kush's lurking is suspect because of how he approaches it, he'll take on scenarios up till he's the topic of conversation at which point he's gone till the conversation turns again. He's just awkward and doesn't feel quite right. Also, his first vote antics were odd to say the least If MrV is scum, he's ridiculously good, because I see no traces of scum whatsoever. He's been over the fire while still not changing at all similarly to Jie Xian, which in itself isn't definitive, however, when others have, it's hard to count these guys as real threats. CharlieChaplain is just scummy, he doesn't answer questions about himself and has only ever targeted civilians. Sure, he's under a lot of stress, but stress doesn't translate into not being able to answer one simple question. His slip ups are numerous. Draskal is that lurker which literally never posts anything insightful... There's no way to tell either way what he is, so it's best to leave him since if we get one wrong, we're in hot water. Djoref is just... Well let's just say he's given just about everyone a criminal case which proves their guilt... This does not add to his credibility... This does not make him look good, makes him look scum. He's been head hunting for a while. You've been my target from the start, ever since I read your first day posts, your slip ups have been many, I don't believe you to be innocent. Thanks for the reads. I think we're sharing much more common ground than we both realized. You're spot on with DYH. His play is indeed really impersonal, and this "emotional detatchment" from the game I find rather scummy. Townies are often really emotional, wild, and crazy. There are certainly exceptions (i.e., scum can be emotional), but complete emotional detachment in the manner exhibited by DYH is strongly suggestive of scum. Do you agree? Drazak is a rather interesting case, because he's normally very lurky as town and scum. I'm getting town vibes from him based his passivity, which strangely enough is indicative of his town play. MrZ is far too attention-seeking this game to be scum. I think we both agree about that. JieXian, I'm a bit torn on. I don't like his play, however, he has some guts to OMGUS me given how violent I've been most of Day 1. I'm willing to see that as townie for now, and hopefully we both can talk a bit more calmly tomorrow. ##Unvote Kush and Djodref are two players I have to look at in a lot of detail. With how this game is working out, I'm pretty sure they're scum. They're very uninvolved in the game, and for the most part have been sitting back and watching us fight. So here's my theory; everyone in the game that's been screaming at each other is town. The scum, DYH, Kush, and Djodref have been sitting in the shadows eating popcorn and watching ourselves tear each other apart. Whaddya think? | ||
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I want to see DYH hang. He's been detached, useless, and I think we both can agree that he has a good chance of flipping red. | ||
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I honestly haven't read enough into Kush or Djo to make an informed decision on which to lynch. I think they're scum, but I want to be sure. So I propose we park our votes on DYH while we each take some time to decide. If we can't find a satisfying candidate, we lynch DYH. At the very least, we'll give DYH a little kick in the ass to get in here and post more. | ||
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Also Eywa, you need to bold your votes (standard format) | ||
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On December 18 2012 12:38 MrZentor wrote: When we kill DYH and he flips red, can I get the credit for his lynch? I mean, I was the first to vote for him. Oh you were totes voting him. Right. | ||
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On December 18 2012 13:31 Djodref wrote: WTF ! Suddendly I'm scum ? I'm not here to participate into your shitfest and that makes me scum ? Let me be clear I live in South Korea, most of the discussion here happens at night for me I have another game going on wich requires much attention and time for me I don't want to participate into this kind of discussions I provided some good cases that almost everybody has dismissed or discarded If you think I'm scum, you have to write a case against me. Something I could answer to. I cannot accept to let you throw away 'Djodref is possible scum' or 'Djodref is scum' comments like this. But I'm glad that this shitfest is over, seriously... This is pretty funny actually. | ||
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On December 18 2012 13:35 Djodref wrote: I'm phone posting from work right now... What do you guys think about lynching Kush today ? I didn't get a single comment on my case against him. I'd rather lynch DoYouHas. I'm not a fan of Kush's play so far, but I can't quite connect the scumdots on him yet. He's detached and apparently he has finals. I will say that his latest comment really rubbed me the wrong way... On December 18 2012 07:05 kushm4sta wrote: This might be the scummiest thing you have said so far this game. ... which he drops right after the deadline and proceeds to peace-out from the thread. I'm trying to be a bit more mindful of the OMGUS stuff, but things like this ("fueling the fire" so-to-speak) I find as scummy. | ||
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On December 18 2012 13:48 DoYouHas wrote: Ok, I'm here and I've caught up. Working on a more extensive case against MrZ atm, but here is your chance to pick my brain before I go to bed. It better be good, because MrZ looks like really obv town. | ||
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On December 18 2012 13:48 DoYouHas wrote: Ok, I'm here and I've caught up. Working on a more extensive case against MrZ atm, but here is your chance to pick my brain before I go to bed. You were convinced that Eywa was scum. What do you make of the last few pages? | ||
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On December 18 2012 13:49 Djodref wrote: Honestly, regarding DYH, I can't remember exactly what he has done in this game. I could totally imagine him or drazak being mafia given their general lack of emotional involment during the shitfest. I need to look at them both, but I would prefer to do it from a computer. Not remembering a player's usually a good sign that they're blending in. Admittedly I haven't considered Drazak as much as I should though, but consider voting DYH. Regarding Kush, I don't remember him mentioning finals, but right now I could have him as scum for activity alone. He's really avoiding to answer some questions. He talked about it here, and mentioned he wasn't going to contribute until Tuesday or something due to schoolwork fo some sort. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=61#1215 I have personal concerns regarding him because he s keeping saying that I'm mafia without backing it up. I would gadly unvote Eywa for Kush if Eywa keeps on contributing like he started to do. Kush's detachment is quite uncharacteristic of him as either alignment, but there's not much I can say that's townie about his filter. He defended Eywa for quite some time, which I could interpret as either alignment. If there's a anything really scummy in his filter, it's probably him vote-swapping between threesr and Morbidius at the end of D1. He switches votes 5-6 times, and it reads like he doesn't care about who dies. | ||
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On December 18 2012 14:07 DoYouHas wrote: It is definitely a pretty drastic change from earlier. I don't really trust it until I see more. His most reasonable posts have been lists, while when he is actually pushing someone he seems entirely unreasonable. Not to mention he went from you being obvious scum, to you being likely scum, to you being probable scum, to taking cues from you on lynch targets in a very short space of time. That is a little fast. Who is your top scumread now - Eywa or MrZ? | ||
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Please catch up on recent thread events. I don't have my vote on you atm. In fact it's probably best just to go start at page 70 and work your way onwards. Less angry and whatnot. | ||
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On December 18 2012 23:35 Eywa- wrote: Given Recent Events, I'd like to give the following hypothesis: Djodref or Kush (either or is scum) Djodref and Kush don't appear to be on the same team, however, they both seem scummy. hapahauli and Mr.Cheesecake or DoYouHas and MrZentor Other Possible - drazak, Jie Xian Hapahauli has had many slips and has not always done well under pressure, I'm not sure if this is due to him being a scum bag, it's still something I consider very reasonable. He also has a very strong attachment to Mr.Cheesecake who is even more scummy than hapahauli... To sum up cheesecake's posting history... Not very well thought out. For a moment I thought that DoYouHas didn't look scummy at all... But then I was trying to put together the pieces on his obsession with MrZentor and I found that... Why would anyone push for that lynch? To prove innocent. In the scenario where DoYouHas would be scum, MrZentor is as well given that they've kind of been on with their little side show for quite some time. I mean there's no reasonable explanation as to why DoYouHas just went after MrZentor other than MrZentor is a guaranteed non-lynch. By this, he throws out a vote while not bothering the disputing players (me and hapahauli + CC). MrZentor then throws his vote at DoYouHas knowing that before the day is over, there will be enough proof going for DoYouHas to disprove him being a mafia member. Now this is highly advanced play, so I kind of doubt it's the reality. Jie Xian - This guy is all over the place, the biggest reason for me to think he is mafia is that there is always something that triggers people who swear they want him dead so bad to switch targets, people look at him and are like "yeah, he's definitely scum" (which I don't buy 100%)... but then one of the keen players always finds a reason to switch off of him... Is this due to some other attachment? I'm not sure. Drazak is thrown into the mix because I have no idea what is game play is... He's a lurker and typically there is a negative connotation given to lurkers. DYH + MrZ I don't think there's a link between DYH and MrZ. On the one hand yes, they're rather concerned with one another. Though I think that arises out of DYH's "cases" against MrZ and simply MrZ's replies. Based on their individual play, I'm more inclined to think that a scum DYH is pushing a MrZ (town) mislynch. That seems like the most logical and reasonable explanation behind the events. Djo + Kush Djo seems town. Other than his sleep-schedule not lining up with the rest of us, he's posting rather often, building cases... etc. It seems like he's genuinely trying to find mafia. Kush on the other hand hasn't done much to make me think he's town. His play is really lacking so far. One concern I have is that his scum-games in the past have been very whiny/emotional/etc. While this game is none of that, his uselessness so far speaks volumes. Scum #3 For me this is down between JieXian, Mr.CC, and Drazak. I'm not sure on this one yet. I need to get some answers from JieXian regarding some of his D1 actions. In addition, his OMGUS seems pretty uncharacteristic of the last town game I played with him (Newbie XX). He wasn't all this ragey, but I do see traces of his town play and mentality in this game. I'm leaning town on JieXian. Drazak... is... lurky. I have to sit down and go through his filter again. I think you guys are more right about Mr.CC than I first gave you credit for. It's not so much his voting actions that are scummy though - it's his lack of content in his filter. He just hasn't done much. When he's been in the thread, he's been fighting with Eywa as opposed to doing anything productive. I'm worried that this could just be a frustrated townie though. Now that things are calmer, I'll have to see what he's going to do scum-hunting wise. | ||
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There are a lot of things in his cases that read townie to me. For example, him really looking for specific Kush comments seems town motivated. Most scum aren't going to read into the game that carefully (no real motivation to do so beyond pushing the occasional mislynch). I also came away from his first argument with me (early D1) with him being town. We argued over a misunderstanding about the game-rules, and as soon as he understood that I misread something, he immediately backed off. That's something that strikes me as really townie - not taking an argument further than it needs to go. Regarding the Scumteam I'm convinced that DYH is scum. I'm leaning scum on Kush and Mr.CC, though I think Drazak could be subbed in for either of them. | ||
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On December 19 2012 04:36 kushm4sta wrote: hapa why are you flip flopping on ewya so hard. and I admit and appoligize for my uselessness . like I said irl issues I'm dealing which should be gone tonight. Read page 70 and onward. We buddied hardcore man. | ||
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On December 19 2012 04:51 kushm4sta wrote: k well I played with scum djo and it fooled everyone the entire game. Okay, but what about Djo is scummy this game? Like I'm scared of Djo's scumplay myself (he always sounds really genuine), but he's done quite a bit of scumhunting this game. It also sounds like you're calling his case on you shit without actually addressing it. | ||
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On December 19 2012 05:04 Eywa- wrote: #unvote Hapahauli, I see no scum on DoYouHas right now... I'm not sure (of course, I can't be sure... But I think I have a good idea of what's going on). Would you be willing to vote either CC or Djodref today? Not Djo, but maybe CC. What about DoYouHas is not scummy? All he's done since we called him out for his play is promise a case on MrZ, then getting lazy and going to bed. | ||
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On December 19 2012 05:40 Eywa- wrote: Because scum, due to the individual accomplishment, even detached scum don't forfeit... DoYouHas has shown no interest in winning an individual game. If you're willing to put your vote on CC, I'm okay with that. What do you mean "forfeit?" He said he said he'd write the case today rather than last night. This shows to me a huge lack of urgency in pursuing his top scumread (MrZ). Also, he hasn't given up, since he apparently is going to post his case sometime today. Until then, I have to take his play at face value: he's pushing two obvious townies to get lynched for very strange reasons. Also, scum are lazy and "forfeit" all the time. | ||
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On December 18 2012 12:38 MrZentor wrote: When we kill DYH and he flips red, can I get the credit for his lynch? I mean, I was the first to vote for him. MrZentor, you never voted for DYH when you made this comment. What gives? | ||
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On December 19 2012 05:52 MrZentor wrote: I thought I had my vote on DYH all day, but when you told me to switch my vote off you on to DYH, I realized it was on you.. I'm really bad at keeping track of my vote. :/ Yeah but dude... where are you even suspicious of DYH in your fiter? | ||
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So even if we take your comment as "I thought I had my vote on him the whole day" as true, these are your conversations with DYH in "the whole day": On December 18 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote: DYH, your case is bad. Scum would have tried to shoot Hapa before DP. And your whole case is based on that not being true. On December 18 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote: If Hapa was town, then Mafia wouldn't have any silver bullets left. It's pretty simple, and the reasoning behind it is solid. If he were truly a blue, then he would have nothing to fear from the witch hunter. Anyways, originally, my plan was going to reveal if Hapa were scum or not; I had a null read on him. And then Hapa started acting really scummy. Like REALLY scummy. So no, my read on Hapa isn't all based on that assumption being true. In fact, it isn't based on that assumption at all, as my plan didn't succeed, and we didn't gain any information from it. On December 18 2012 07:41 MrZentor wrote: The probability of scum having a bullet and Hapa being blue was minuscule. And I'm impatient. On December 18 2012 07:47 MrZentor wrote: No, there are a lot of things Hapa could be. The reason I was focused on elected scum is that that was a really easy way to catch him and prove he was scum. And he had a good chance of being elected, regardless of his alignment, so there would be a decent chance of him being elected scum. Nowhere in this conversation do you even imply suspicion on DYH. This is true of your D1 play as well. In fact, it looks like you're just defending yourself against someone you think is town. Nowhere here do you even question his motives. | ||
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On December 19 2012 06:07 MrZentor wrote: On the first day, I had a null read on him, so of course I wasn't going to imply suspicion. On the second day, I thought I had voted for DYH after he voted for me, just to show that I was tired of his ridiculous cases. I probably wrote the post and then forgot to post it. :/ So where in that conversation would you have voted for DYH? Also, you realize this looks terrible right? | ||
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On December 19 2012 06:10 MrZentor wrote: I would have voted somewhere between the time he voted for me and my first post after he voted for me. And I think you're over reacting to this situation. Overreacting? I found out that one of my previous town reads pulled a suspicion out of thin air and I can't make sense of how you would do it as town. The thing is, he voted you before the entire conversation above took place. Not once in your interaction do you call him scummy. Not once do you even question his motives. You just defend yourself. Rather earnestly at that. You claimed that you voted him because you were "tired of his ridiculous cases." What in the above conversation shows you are frustrated? Hell I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you supposedly forgot to vote him, but then you forgot to call him scum... ever? | ||
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DYH, read my stuff on page 75-76 on MrZ. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote MrZentor | ||
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On December 19 2012 06:29 DoYouHas wrote: I had been trying to keep MrZ's voting of me largely out of my case to try and make it more objective. But what you are saying makes sense. Well... MrZ never voted you. | ||
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On December 19 2012 06:32 kushm4sta wrote: help me out. who are the current possible bandwagons? I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? 1) I dont' know if I was shot. I wasn't notified anyway. 2) No claims. Claims after the lynch deadline ends (72 hour period lapses) | ||
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DYH + MrZ scumteam. I can prove it. | ||
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On December 19 2012 06:37 MrZentor wrote: And Hapa, don't you think I as scum would be more careful and actually try to make it look like I was suspicious of DYH before voting him? Look at any of my scum games and compare that play to my play this game. Can you post some of your scumgames then? I'd like to take a readthrough. | ||
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1) His "vote" on DYH On December 18 2012 12:38 MrZentor wrote: When we kill DYH and he flips red, can I get the credit for his lynch? I mean, I was the first to vote for him. After me and Eywa settled on lynching DYH, MrZentor pops in and expresses his desire to follow us on the lynch. He sais above that he was the first to vote him, however that's a lie. He never voted DYH in his filter. MrZ was never even suspicious of DYH in his filter. 2) MrZ's Explanation On December 19 2012 06:07 MrZentor wrote: ... On the first day, I had a null read on him, so of course I wasn't going to imply suspicion. On the second day, I thought I had voted for DYH after he voted for me, just to show that I was tired of his ridiculous cases. I probably wrote the post and then forgot to post it. :/ DYH's vote on MrZ: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=62#1232 So right after this post, MrZ supposedly "got tired of DYH's ridiculous cases" and would have voted him. However, look at the conversations that DYH and MrZ have with each other (click spoiler): + Show Spoiler + On December 18 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote: DYH, your case is bad. Scum would have tried to shoot Hapa before DP. And your whole case is based on that not being true. On December 18 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote: If Hapa was town, then Mafia wouldn't have any silver bullets left. It's pretty simple, and the reasoning behind it is solid. If he were truly a blue, then he would have nothing to fear from the witch hunter. Anyways, originally, my plan was going to reveal if Hapa were scum or not; I had a null read on him. And then Hapa started acting really scummy. Like REALLY scummy. So no, my read on Hapa isn't all based on that assumption being true. In fact, it isn't based on that assumption at all, as my plan didn't succeed, and we didn't gain any information from it. On December 18 2012 07:41 MrZentor wrote: The probability of scum having a bullet and Hapa being blue was minuscule. And I'm impatient. On December 18 2012 07:47 MrZentor wrote: No, there are a lot of things Hapa could be. The reason I was focused on elected scum is that that was a really easy way to catch him and prove he was scum. And he had a good chance of being elected, regardless of his alignment, so there would be a decent chance of him being elected scum. MrZ defends himself from DYH's questions four times. MrZ claims that is "tired of DYH's ridiculous cases," and supposedly had his vote on DYH (which he claims he forgot to post). In these posts... 1) He never calls DYH scummy 2) He never questions DYH's motives 3) He is remarkably patient with DYH and takes the time to answer all his questions 4) For all purposes, he treats the cases as if DYH is town MrZ's suspicions on DYH make no sense with his actions. MrZ claims he has a vote on DYH and tried to take credit for a possible lynch on DYH. While he states he "forgot" to vote for DYH when I called him out for it, his conversations with DYH treat DYH as if he's town. Admittedly I thought he was town because he was too "attention-seeking." However when mafia are active, it becomes harder for them to mask their actions. In this case, MrZ is active scum, and can't keep his story straight. So when we remove the "attention-seeking" read from MrZ's, what do we get? A guy talking about nonsense for 7-pages of filter. He pushed the Morbidius mislynch through, then spent 3-4 pages talking about how I must be scum since I'm not dead. | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:20 MrZentor wrote: Just read some of my scum games. Also, if DYH is innocent like you now seem to think, and I'm scum, why would I want to take credit for his lynch? Wouldn't I want to make it look like it was your fault we lynched a townie? That makes no sense from a scum perspective. You can say "oh I wouldn't do this and that as scum," but you still haven't explained how your actions make sense. Fact is, you claimed you made a vote you didn't make, and your explanation for it makes no sense. You want to have me believe that you were suspicious of DYH... and never said once that he was scummy. Never once said that he was suspicious. And never once questioned his motives. What gives? | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote: I was afraid of calling him scum after misreading him last game. Your case gave me confidence. I don't see what the problem is. There are many words I can use to describe your gameplay, but "afraid" isn't one of them. You were so afraid of misreading DYH that you... never called him scum... even once? It's the severity that's getting to me. I'd understand a degree of reluctance to push DYH, but your attitude towards him has been on another level. Also, what was the "last game" in regards to the mislynch? | ||
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You were apparently scared of mislynching DYH. But then why would you think of voting him? | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:18 MrZentor wrote: Also, what happened to your "Mafia wouldn't try rolefishing." idea. It's back. | ||
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On December 19 2012 08:33 Djodref wrote: How did you make this comment then ? I skimmed your case. Haven't really nitpicked it or anything. | ||
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Regarding Kush I think the "lurker obsession" thing is pretty good point. Looking at his past games, he really hasn't been all that concerned with lurkers until this game, and he has this really aggressive "I want to lynch lurkers over scumreads" policy (of course kush can say stupid things like that as town or scum). What makes him scummy/scum IMO are two things: 1) His voting actions near the lynch deadline 2) Two very odd hard defenses of players (Eywa and MrZ) Lynch Deadline Actions In chronological order... On December 17 2012 02:58 kushm4sta wrote: cheesey baby, will you lurker lynch with me? morbidus sound good? On December 17 2012 03:12 kushm4sta wrote: k ##unvote ##vote threesr On December 17 2012 04:38 kushm4sta wrote: so we are just going to assume threesr is town all game long? k ##unvote ##vote morbidus On December 17 2012 04:52 kushm4sta wrote: look! morbidus is posting. He's not going to be so unreadable going forward. Threesr is literally going to post 1 sentence a day, and we are never going to get a better read on him. On December 17 2012 04:53 kushm4sta wrote: ##unvote ##vote threesr On December 17 2012 04:56 kushm4sta wrote: I have a request for you hapa. Look at DYH filter real quick. In a way he is the scariest lurker of all. On December 17 2012 05:49 kushm4sta wrote: So we don't have much time but I want to switch over to Threesr. I read morbidus filter now and it looks nooby/scummy. But i think he will get easier to read as the game goes on. No one has a super strong read on him now... that is simply impossible. People don't want to vote Threesr because he has been so open about being a lurker and not reading, etc. But I am here to tell you THAT IS NOT A TOWN TELL. I know him really well. He is my best friend. I told him about TL forum mafia but I did not tell him to join this game because I played a game with him before on OMGUS.net and he lurked hard. Anyway, he really doesn't give a fuck about what he says. He is extremely capable of saying that shit as either scum or mafia, it's really not a tell either way. ##unvote ##vote threesr gogo On December 17 2012 05:57 kushm4sta wrote: w/e i can live with a morb lynch On December 17 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote: ##unvote ##vote morb Kush just does not give much of a shit about who we're going to lynch. His seemingly favorite scumread is threesr, he asks me about my opinion on the "scariest lurker" (DYH), then sheeps on morbidius. He waffles and changes his mind a bunch of times, and I can only read it as a general ambivalence towards the lynch. Hard Defenses (MrZ) While I largely agree with his defenses in retrospect, the way that Kush defended certain players is just really really weird. It seems rather forced. His most recent defense is the one of MrZ: On December 19 2012 06:32 kushm4sta wrote: help me out. who are the current possible bandwagons? I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? Zero rationale. Zero substance. Just "I really think Mr.Z is town, cause... uhhh...idunno" Hard Defenses (Eywa) His defense of Eywa also seems rather forced. He posts this right before the lynch deadline. On December 17 2012 05:19 kushm4sta wrote: @MZ why isn't eywa scum? i want a concise defense of him. Apparently he's rather open to the idea that Eywa could be scum and is a candidate for lynching. Then... On December 17 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote: so this is ewyas first forum gameright? and knowing that you actually still think he's scum? I looked at filter and he looks pretty obvtown to me. djo is scum...more tomorrow. hapa or thrawn one of those is prob scum. one of the more quiet lurker people, one of those is probably scum.. I'm thinking dhs maybe jx. "Btw, I just looked at his filter and he's obvtown!" Now I can sympathize with a town read (as that's probably how I should have viewed it at this point in the game), but 1) Kush doesn't provide any analysis, and 2) "obvtown" isn't the first thing that should come to mind so early in the game. The lack of explanation behind his read is also pretty concerning. The read just comes too easy to him. Lack of Scumhunting But what's most concerning about the "Hard defenses" overall is that Kush seems more concerned with hard-defending players rather than scumhunting. Like he's more than willing to come up with rediculous reasons to think someone is town... On December 17 2012 14:32 kushm4sta wrote: Exhibit A: Ewya's alleged scumslip Exhibit B: In which Ewya says im town This is just one of many examples of his use of the word citizen. Ewya says CITIZEN when he means town and TOWNIE when he means player. Remember this is his first forum mafia game. The only experience he has had is IRL mafia. ...But when it comes to hunting scum... On December 17 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote: so this is ewyas first forum gameright? and knowing that you actually still think he's scum? I looked at filter and he looks pretty obvtown to me. djo is scum...more tomorrow. hapa or thrawn one of those is prob scum. one of the more quiet lurker people, one of those is probably scum.. I'm thinking dhs maybe jx. On December 19 2012 04:06 kushm4sta wrote: I still think djofreff is scum. megaposts don't make you town. I played with him when he was scum once. I will not let him fool me again. His scumstrat is to drown out his scumminess with a sea of shit. ##vote djodreff I also suspect jx, dhs. Don't have time to poet more now. I will later. sorry. The crap is that? Absolutely nothing. He votes djo because djo's behavior "doesn't make him town", and not because djo is scummy. A quick look through his filter will reveal a lack of scumhunting. He's wanted to lynch a bunch of lurkers for being lurkers, voted Djo for wtf reasons... and that's it. | ||
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For me, lynching him would be lynching a null read. His play has been lackluster on face, but he has a legitimate excuse for playing the way he is. If there's something scummy in his filter, it's him not pushing his thrawn read as hard as he could at the lynch. However, this doesn't make him scum. There are plenty of players who haven't pushed a read. JieXian didn't push Mr.CC to get lynched. Neither did Eywa. And I think they're both town. The rest of CC's play can be very easily explained by being very angry at Eywa, just as it could be explained by him being scum. On December 18 2012 11:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Whatever. Tired of this " I didn't do anything D1" Bullshit. Neither did Eywa. I'm busy helping amend this fucking school shooting in CT, maybe you've heard of it? I don't have time to deal with you fucking retards (Eywa, not you Hapa) Go die if you don't understand it, because I honestly don't give a shit anymore. I'm just going to park my vote on Eywa, because he's scum. Join me if you want to. I just don't know what to say. If Eywa is town I have no faith in the intelligence of humanity. /endrage On December 18 2012 11:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm not posting for the rest of the day. I'll give some reads before lynch time. I apologize for flaming. Town: Good luck in the meantime. These read like really pissed-off raging town posts. I have no reason to think they aren't so. | ||
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I think he's scum. In GSL III Mini, I talked to him one-on-one a lot, and got town-vibes from his quick posting and genuinely. Sometimes he would even pop in and provide a scumread or two. His play on its face is super lurky. There's no scumhunting, as well as some really strange pockets of anger. Opposition to the "Claim Plan" On December 18 2012 03:53 drazak wrote: OK. This is ending now, Shut the fuck up about your witchcraft votes. If scum didn't waste their second shot, you're gonna give them ammo. I really want this wifom about hapa to stop, something let mafia on to people voting for DP, so he got shot, mafia(if it doesn't contain hapa) knows they have an almost sure kill on him tonight. We're gonna be at 6-3 after night phase as long as there isn't a vet or something. This sucks. On December 18 2012 05:38 drazak wrote: Other than fucking killing hapa if he has a blue power. Drazak is normally pretty quiet and passive throughout his filter. However he completely breaks character at random times. Here's two, where he's all up-in-arms about the blue-claim plan. It reads as so forced - "LOL YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS why are you attacking hapa?!?!?!" Lack of Scumhunting In his other town games, I Drazak is not good about posting reads, but he atleast posts them. This game... not so much. For example his wonderful Day 1 vote: On December 16 2012 08:14 drazak wrote: Wat. I don't think anyone is sheeping on him. I really don't like how you're sheeping on him and agreeing that you're sheeping. You don't seem to have a lot of real reason for your vote other than sheeping, and I really don't like taht. ##vote Morbidius Like what the fuck is this vote? There's also this gem on me: On December 19 2012 06:53 drazak wrote: Bleh, I don't like how defensive hapa was but I can't get anything else to stick on him no matter how hard I look. A half-hearted opinion on myself. Reads like "eh I tried to force a case on Hapa and I couldn't find anything." Other than that, there is literally no scumhunting in his filter. No reads, no nothing. | ||
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Lurky and detatched. Not much to say. Also, when you actually read his case on MrZ, it's pretty... lacking. MrZ is pretty dead-on about it's contents: On December 19 2012 08:27 MrZentor wrote: His whole case is That he agrees with me on a bunch of stuff But because I wanted to know if Hap was scum or not from witchcraft votes And because I didn't want to wait more than 48 hours to get the results I am scum. One thing DYH doesn't realize, which is extremely important, is that my plan wouldn't work if I waited for N2, because there would be at least 2 more dead people, and I would have no way to know those people's witchcraft votes. He says I am scum because I didn't wait for N2 to ask for everybody's votes, but he doesn't understand that my plan wouldn't work if I waited for N2. | ||
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DoYouHas, Kush, Drazak An outside chance of Mr.CC. Only other possible candidate would be JieXian, but his reactions/OMGUS read very townie. Very pissed townie, but townie. | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:51 Djodref wrote: yeah, I'm here ! Among these three, I would say that Kush is the most likely to flip scum. I'm totally up to lynch him today and I'm getting tired that Jx, MrZ and Eywa are dismissing my cases. I feel like DYH is the less likely to flip scum. I really want to hear more from him. And on somebody else than MrZ... Regarding drazark, I was null on him so far. I'll come back to you after reading his filter one more time. Eywa... not scum. Far too active to be scum at this point. He's been one of the most active players in a really lurky day, and I can't see scum motivation behind it. Also his recent play has been very productive for the town. JX... I'm leaning town on the basis of his violent behavior. It's too attention-seeking. It's incoherent yes, but I think it's town. One thing that puts me off from his filter is that his play seems to be more antagonistic than productive. However that's not necessarily scummy, and the people I listed above I'm convinced are scum. MrZ...fakewjhfaksdfamwebf. Does he make sense? No. But he's town on behavior alone. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:06 Djodref wrote: Bleh, there is absolutely no scumhunting in drazark's filter. Also I've asked him for reads that he never gave. I might have been fooled because he was trying to get people to shut the fuck up about the witchcraft votes and the "silver bullet" speculation. I liked this part, and he really looked genuine while doing it. But, yeah, that doesn't make you town. I need to reconsider CC as well now... In one sense, I'm hesitant on the basis that he's lynchbait. However his play has been scummy by itself, and the random "GAH I'M ANGRY" stuff strikes me as scummy. I know he promised "aggression", but he never delivered in the game. I disagree with you regarding Jx, I didn't like at all the fact that he brought up the witchcraft votes again. And I don't like his tunnels. And the fact that he totally dismissed to comment on my cases against Kush when I specifically asked him. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they're scum. I hate the "vote shit" too, but it's stupid, not scummy. Also, why would JX so willingly bring something like that up when it's a) a really stupid idea and b) a bunch of people would scream at him for it? It's not a scum mindset. Regarding MrZentor, I would like to lynch him for his behavior alone. This guy is seriously pissed me off. But we have to lynch scum, don't we ? I've read his past games and he looks like he could be town. The problem is that his play his easy to emulate. Yeah, but it's also a lot like his previous town games. He's also just too attention-whorey. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: I don't like so much these "too stupid to be scum" nor the "too attention-whorey" to be scum arguments but I would agree that at least they show some involvement in this game. And some passion too ^^ So yeah, they are less likely to be scum than Kush, Drazak, DYH and CC. Right now, my scum team would be Kush and Drazak and one other guy. But Kush is definitively scum  Well it's more of the player-profile. Certain scum-players love the spotlight. MrZ's scum games are generally fearful of attention. This game... exact opposite. I get similar vibes from JX's play. | ||
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Can't put together a team that doesn't include him. | ||
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On December 19 2012 14:44 drazak wrote: ... @hapa Sorry, I have ended up busier than I expected, mostly due to the holidays and then I decided to stream tonight instead of read the thread. Let me know if you have anything I can answer for you. Scumhunting. Gogogo. | ||
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If I'm one of your top scumreads, why on earth are you trying to defend yourself to me? On December 19 2012 14:44 drazak wrote: ... @hapa Sorry, I have ended up busier than I expected, mostly due to the holidays and then I decided to stream tonight instead of read the thread. Let me know if you have anything I can answer for you. | ||
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Where'd you go? We need to talk @ CC Can you elaborate on your MrZ/DYH thing? | ||
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On December 19 2012 15:30 Djodref wrote: By the way, Hapa, I still really prefer a Kush lynch to a DYH lynch. How can I convince you to switch your vote to Kush ? We have a day to go, and I want to see Kush get in here and give some responses. Even though I think Kush is scum, I can still see scenarios in which he flips town. This is not the case for DYH. | ||
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Beyond the early-game anger and whatnot, Eywa has been rather constructive today. There are many players lurking right now, and he's not one of them. He's been open with his reads, and I'm pretty sure he's town at this stage. Also, lynch DYH please. Mr.Z hasn't posted much useful, but it seems to line up with his town persona. He's like this in a lot of his other town games (trolly, jokey, etc). He's much more up-tight and afraid to post in his scum-games. | ||
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Well Kush can do unbelievably stupid things as town. Even though I think his behavior is scummy, there is a possibility that all the things in his filter came from a town Kush during finals week. I don't think it's likely given his behavior so far, but I think it's possible. As for DYH, I can't see him flipping town. He's incredibly emotionally detached from the game, and his case on MrZ was pretty bad. | ||
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On December 19 2012 15:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: DoYouHas Because Hapa told me. /hug also i just glanced at his filter and saw this and it made me lol Setting up my lynch if we lynch Eywa and he flips town. That would actually make sense. If DYH flips scum, Eywa is prolly town. Buddying is flattering, but I do need to be able to read you, so please don't make this a habit. Even though you seem rather demotivated, effort would be appreciated. Keep in mind that JieXian and Eywa are voting you, and it's not like I disagree with their assessment of your play so far. | ||
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On December 19 2012 16:05 Djodref wrote: I could support a DYH lynch if you need to consolidate, but in the meantime I'll try to push my lynch on Kush. He shouldn't have tried to go after me, I'm not an easy mislynch anymore, like in NMM XXIX ! I'm also peacing out I have RL stuff to do. I'll try to stay up tonight... By all means please do question him. I'm really really interested to hear his defense, and I might consider lynching him based on his responses. | ||
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Maybe JX, because his anger does seem really misplaced at this point. Ideally DYH | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? | ||
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On December 20 2012 01:06 kushm4sta wrote: ... Next I will do DYH. He looked scummy to me before but I haven't looked at him in forever. Your check rings really really hollow when you push suspicion on the guy you apparently know is town. | ||
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On December 20 2012 04:42 DoYouHas wrote: Eywa - town - Once he stopped his over the top crusade on hapa and started talking reasonably his townie-ness came through. Hapa - town - With his contributions day one and his willingness to go after anyone and back off just as quickly, hapa's play has just been too confident and productive to be scum. JX - townish - His willingness to go after the most influential townie and back up Eywa, even when Eywa was flinging crap does not strike me as the play of a noob scum, which JX would definitely be. His day1 play also fits his 1 game town meta better than his 1 game scum meta. kush - townishnull - kush certainly hasn't been helpful much this game, what struck me as town from him is when he asked if anyone had claimed witchcrafty yet. What scum would say that? (Aside from MrZ). MrZ - scum - Djo - scumish - Djo has been playing the reasonable middleground in this game far too much. This has been a game of extremes and votes jumping around. Djo always seems to be looking to come out on top regardless of which way things play out. MrCc - scumishnull - I didn't like the way MrCc buddied hapa during the Eywa push, and the points about his Thrawn case are decent. But I haven't looked into him thoroughly. Draz - null - I have paid almost no attention to draz this game. | ||
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HIs story checks out, Kush is town. However, I'm lynching DYH if he's going to afk peace out like this. | ||
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JX is doing jack shit other than insulting random people when he pops in the thread. | ||
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That's my problem with this game. I have to choose between a bunch of lurkers to lynch, and a bunch of idiots to lynch. Goddamnit. How the hell are you supposed to reliably find scum like this? /rantend | ||
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People I'm 95% sure are town: Kush - Witchcraft claim checks out waaaay too well from town mentality MrZ - Nothing like his scum games. Everything like his town games. People I'm leaning town on Mr.CC - School shooting card = not scum Eywa - too stupid to be scum? JieXian - too suicidal to be scum? Djo - cares too much to be scum? People I think are scum: DYH - lurker Drazak - useless lurker The problem of course, is that I'm wrong somewhere in the middle. I have to be. If DYH is scum, I'm wrong about two people in the middle. | ||
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I don't think I"m wrong on Mr.CC. I have faith in the guy that he wouldn't rage-quit on RL issues from the thread if he was scum. I hope I'm right or I'll be royally pissed. If there's anyone I'm wrong about in that list, it's probably JieXian for ranting incoherently at times. However, I stil can't see situations where Draz or DYH flip town. | ||
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8 after a lynch 7 after a modkill 6 after scum NK If we miss, and Draz gets modkilled, then we lose. Which sucks because 2 mislynches ---> GG is retarded. | ||
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On December 20 2012 06:23 kushm4sta wrote: Why lynch drazak when he's gonna get modkilled anyway prob? Because if we don't lynch scum and Draz gets modkilled, we likely lose the game. | ||
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We'll get an alternate DT check on DYH tomorrow (hopefully) and find out his allignment. | ||
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But I still think he's going to flip scum. Also MrZ, I need more from you than "Switch to XX?" "Switch to YY?" every so often. | ||
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On December 20 2012 06:30 MrZentor wrote: Switch to Hap? >> | ||
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JieXian, we have to lynch someone, and the check isn't 100% due to the possibility of a godfather role. Also, where have you been? | ||
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On December 20 2012 06:49 JieXian wrote: #unvote ##Vote MrZentor I had you as townish but I'm not sure of your alignment after all that crap but if djo hapa and mrcc have their votes on someone like that I can be sure it's town. hapa it's 5.49 am here where do you think I was Oh Malasya. Right. Excuse my American geographic ignorance. So why exactly do you think I'm scum btw? Besides the OMGUS of course. | ||
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See you on the other side | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:01 JieXian wrote: Why are you still bother info to play dumb when you've basically won Hi JieXian. Let's talk about how scummy you look right now. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:03 MrZentor wrote: The last blue should claim now. Unfortunately I think it was thrawn (and he got shot and stuffs) | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:05 MrZentor wrote: Oh, I thought it would have said that he had witchcraft powers when he died. Nah. I asked BH earlier about it, and he said empowered townies flip normally. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:07 JieXian wrote: Excuse my bad and laggy cellphone posting. Really need to sleep now . Have a good night <3 We will need to talk some in the night cycle though | ||
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Night 1, NOT Night 2 I voted for: Djodref, DarthPunk Thrawn | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:16 MrZentor wrote: Eywa, Mr. Cheesecake, and kushm4sta I basically didn't want Hap to get blue. Ugh and you tunneled me N1 despite that... | ||
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I mean it could be part of an "angry-at-the-world" scum meta, but like he's setting himself up to look like an absolute ass after the flip. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:33 MrZentor wrote: I want to talk with Drazark's replacement. Also, part of me is suspicious of kush. I'm probably just paranoid. Kush's claim checks out way too well for me. First of all, scum winning the witchcraft elections would have tried to roleblock someone. No one claimed that they were RB'd night 1. Secondly, DYH makes a lot of sense as his check given his suspicions at the D1 lynch. He's constantly suspicious of DYH as a "scary lurker." Not only that, but after N1 (when his actions supposedly resolve), he never mentions DYH again. This checks out pretty well with receiving a green check. On December 17 2012 04:56 kushm4sta wrote: I have a request for you hapa. Look at DYH filter real quick. In a way he is the scariest lurker of all. On December 17 2012 04:57 kushm4sta wrote: every please look at DYH filter. I think he is a lurker maybewe can agree on. On December 17 2012 05:03 kushm4sta wrote: But DYH hasn't showed up. He posted what he posted just enough to be not considered a lurker then proceeded to lurk. Also what do you like in there?? It's like I read it and I instantly forget what I've read because it's all just so shitty in such a boring an inconsequential way. Thirdly, he's been hinting that he won the elections all throughout D2: On December 19 2012 05:58 kushm4sta wrote: have people claimed witchcrafy yet? also hapa do you know that you were shot On December 19 2012 06:32 kushm4sta wrote: help me out. who are the current possible bandwagons? I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? So this isn't some random DT check by Kush. It's a claim that matches up really really well with the "story" that he's just an inactive townie who won the witchraft elections. I'm 99% sure he's town. | ||
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Oh yeah that's fair. However that doesn't change that the claim checks out with the rest of his story far too well. like waaaaay too well. | ||
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Drazak has to be scum. Like I cannot put together a two person scumteam out of the other players unless it's JX/Eywa. And that seems pretty unlikely. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I really think its between Eywa / JX / Drazak. CC, I need you to do more than throw some names around. Build cases pl0x. | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Ugh, that takes work man... jeeze. Fine I'll do some in a bit. Sorry bro, faith can't completely vindicate you. I need some substance, and you've had... 1 case this game... | ||
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On December 20 2012 07:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Thats more than JX / Eywa / Drazak combined? Yes, but it's still less than I'm used to seeing out of your newbie games. | ||
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Djo, CC, JX, and Eywa Try to get some updated scumreads and cases in before the end of the cycle. | ||
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Anywho Kush, it's not acceptable at this point for you to keep name-dropping possible scumteam members without any rationale. If you believe Djo is scum, build a case. | ||
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On December 20 2012 06:43 Keirathi wrote: Vote Count! DoYouHas (5) - Hapahauli, MrZentor, Mr. Cheesecake, Djodref, kush MrZentor (2) - DoYouHas, Eywa-, JieXian Mr. Cheesecake (1) - Not Voting (1) - Drazak With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Currently DoYouHas is set to be lynched! This is my scumteam at the moment. I don't think anyone on the DYH wagon was scum. It was very difficult to put together, and everyone consolidating at the end felt very townie and genuine. In addition, I can't see where mafia would have bussed DYH. The counterwagons were sufficiently strong where going on DYH was not a straightforward play. Drazak seems like a pretty straightforward scum candidate. Fairly useless, no scumhunting, etc. Hopefully he gets modkilled so we can see him flip. Between Eywa and JieXian, I'm leaning towards JieXian for a couple of reasons. 1) It feels like JieXian was just stuck in attack-mode all game for no reason. His play can only be described as purposefully antagonistic. Him switching between Mr.CC and MrZ shows lots of anti-town motive, and reads a lot like a guy going all-out to save DYH. 2) When I was attacking JieXian early in the game, he buddied Eywa and thought he was town for zero rationale. He was treating Eywa as if he knew Eywa would flip town. 3) DYH's suspicion on Eywa suggests that Eywa is town. DYH was very comfortable with the idea that "Eywa was scummy", and didn't back off until early D2 when Eywa was playing far more constructive. It reads a lot like DYH was fueling the fires of a mislynch. | ||
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Hi Ghost! I'd love to be friendly, but you're predecessor looked really really bad. Catch up when you can. | ||
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On December 21 2012 03:21 JieXian wrote: ... Hapa to answer that question I'm still suspecting you because of your ignored questions and your weak and forced points/cases against me, it was no OMGUS (take D1 for example) I don't see why the idea of bussing was totally ignored. I admit that I have to rethink things but as I said, the main scum I have in mind were hapa and cc, I only added djo in because he appeared to be a bff of hapa but I wasn't sure. I'll address everything tomorrow if I'm still around. I guess more of my issue with your "suspicion" on me that it looks more like trolling rather than actual suspicion. For example this: On December 19 2012 00:30 JieXian wrote: ok bye I'm done for the day. Glad to see things toning down. Even gladder to have seen this earlier Was about to post a huge lol and some gifs and youtube links but controled myself. I'll just have to settle with hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha There is zero reason to post this other than to deliberately antagonize a player. That's really fucking scummy. | ||
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On December 21 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: hapa open your mind ok? also day post is at 5 am i right? Open your mind... for what? | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:05 kushm4sta wrote: mostly because im still writing it lol Give me the cliffs. I need more than 15 minutes to pull a 180 on a town read dawg. And I really doubt that I'm going to change my mind. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:08 ghost_403 wrote: GF is coming over shortly, and I'm not convinced I'll get back before the end of the night, so I'll just throw that out there. Zentor and Hapa are confirmed town. There has been no attempt to discredit their status in thread, so I don't see any reason to disbelieve this. MrZ is probably dead tonight, which is unfortunate, but so it goes. I'm 90% sure that Djodref is town. I looked through his case on JX. I can't see him putting forward that much effort to try and get someone lynched as scum. Perhaps someone can enlighten me based on his past games, but I believe him to be town at this point. Kush is probably town and just bad. I'm positive I'm not dying tonight (no one NKs the new guy), so I'll spend the rest of tomorrow really examining this play to make sure that I'm reading him right. Currently, this is more of a gut feeling rather than anything else. JX looks scummy to me, simply based on what Djo pushed in his case. Given a bullet, I'd shoot him. If he flipped town, I would probably spend the next cycle pushing Djo as scum. That leaves Eywa and MrCC. MrCC seems abrasive and forward in the thread, but not terribly contributory. I can see him going either way. I would flip him later than Eywa. Eywa has been gone since I got into the thread. That makes him kind of hard to read, but by process of elimination, I'd lynch him. Bolded is some pretty sketchy stuff. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:10 kushm4sta wrote: PART 1 (more parts inc.) I'm going to make this meta comparison easy for you guys: here is a d1 megapost from town djo: So this a djo case as town. TOWM + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 14:07 Djodref wrote: I'm betting that you didn't really notice him because this guys is sure blending in First of all, I would like to say that Clarity is non-committal with his reads. Please have a look at the different posts in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is. The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town. It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town. My reads at this point in time: Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing. @ Obzy Do you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you. _ Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX. @ Rad Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend? _ Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said @ Alsn Why the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point? _ Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town. @ Cheese You did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both. _ Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages. @ Djodref If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else? _ Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again. @ Debears What's your ready on Obzy? _ Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games. @ Sylverfire You've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you? _ So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible. Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws. Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do. This post is full of null reads or slight reads, it speaks for itself. On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak. My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help. Weak scumreads on Alsn on me On November 04 2012 04:38 Clarity_nl wrote: <snip> I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something. Drops Alsn and is wishy washy about debears Then Clarity is also using double-standards, he has being reproaching Rad not to scumhunt but have you seen Clarity scumhunting ? You might argue that he has put pressure on daoud but he has conveniently done it while it was Saturday night in Hong Kong. And given daoud lurky habits, it's an easy target to attack. Clarity has been defensive when I was trying to give him advice after his post with his reads. The point I really don't like in his reaction is the fact that he said that he didn't make a list. Regarding the plurality lynch, we have individually to focus on our scum reads but town in general should not focus on only two players. By the way, you have failed to put pressure on me or Alsn, but we were your scum reads. In conclusion FoS Clarity Now this is this game's equivalent: SCUM + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote: JieXan First of all, I liked DYH latest case against him + Show Spoiler [for reference] + On December 16 2012 07:32 DoYouHas wrote: @DP - I think the optimal way to play is to do our best to get the witch hunter to miss. Losing 2 townies, good or bad, is always worse than losing 1. I don't think this is going to convince you, so I'm not going to bring it up again. I'm feeling more comfortable with my vote on JX right now. His initial post was rather scummy, the thing to note about it is that it looks constructed (the phrases used when talking about hapa and MrZ, "mindless babbling" & "relative non-chalance". What makes me think he is scum is the progression of his pushing MrZ. A behavior read. An unsupported meta read with some WIFOM. Finally providing support for his meta read. Not conclusive enough considering he is ignoring paranoia (MrZ's most recent town game). This reads like he is trying to justify his stance on MrZ after the fact. Instead of finding MrZ scummy and looking into him, the presenting good reasons to vote him, JX voted him, then went in search of the reasons when pressured. This strikes me as scummy. I already pointed out how his first post feels constructed, and if that is true and he spent time on that post, why didn't he spend time backing up his vote on MrZ right from the start? Here is how he entered the thread casually spreading suspicion over Hapa and DP. His point against Hapa is not so bad, but it's kind of nit picky. I'll pass him this one because I was really startled when Hapa brought it. On the other hand, his points against DP and Zentor are bad. Regarding DP, in the early game, you have to pressure people for some trivia, and pressuring people is more a townie behavior than a mafia behavior, even if it's not totally true for DP. The main point here is that he calls them townies in the same post. That's just a scumslip. because this refers to Hapa and DP. So he enters the thread by spreading suspicion on them but calling them townies when he votes finally MrZ. So either he has a townread on them, in this case the first suspicions and points against them are totally useless and unwarranted for, either he is a mafia player that knows their alignment. Let's take a look at the rest of his filter to decide what is more likely. He doesn't really comment on the fact that he called them townies. And now he said that they were saying weird things, and not scummy things. And then just proceeds to tunnel MrZ, which has not given us so much to work from. Right now, I think that JieXan has the most chances to flip scum. Hence my vote. ##Vote Jiexan READ BOTH there is a distinct difference. Even though he is incorrect in the town post, there is a lot more certainty in the tone of the case. Town djo thinks his cases are right. Scum djo knows they are wrong. Already I can tell you two problems with this: 1) You're comparing his second newbie game to this game, when his playstyle (and confidence) have evolved greatly 2) Also, you mention that "scum Djo knows his case is wrong"... where on earth are you getting that from? | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:15 kushm4sta wrote: when he's scum he knows his case is wrong. the town game was the last game he got town (not counting chrono because that game was fucked) Yes, but WHY? You can say he knows his case is wrong, but like what about his case indicates that? From his last scumgame (mario mini): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=284165 He does 99% less scumhunting than he's currently done. | ||
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Djo Kush might be right about this one. Don't dismiss his argument, there's some stuff that Djo needs to answer for. Eywa- On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? He needs to answer for this. It's very difficult to rationalize this for a town perspective. Behavior suggests he's town, however, him being absent from the thread this cycle is very concerning. Don't let him off the hook. JieXian Kush's case on Djo has really thrown a wrench into this. I'm not all that convinced he's scum. Ghost/Draz He's a replacement. Probably not a good idea to lynch him unless someone claims a red-check on him or if he's scummy on his own behavior. | ||
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On December 21 2012 06:58 MrZentor wrote: What? If you're blue you can just get that veteran power. Actually no. You need three people to "channel" a veteran for that to work (three witchcraft dudes have to vote for the same veteran). No longer possible I'm afraid. | ||
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##Vote Djodref | ||
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On December 21 2012 07:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Keep in mind, I'm still entertaining the fact of a JX/Eywa scumteam. Like, that would be my dreams come true. My ego would love it, unfortunately I don't think that's the case. | ||
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On December 21 2012 07:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Today, Silly goose. Yeah yeah yeah. Technicality. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:29 Djodref wrote: Come guys, Kush basically claimed scum in the thread with this post ! How come the mafia did not shot him at that point ? Djo, you need to answer Kush's case. Secondly, kush did not claim scum there. | ||
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I'm more interested in hearing you defend yourself rather than taking random quotes from kush's filter. Also, what happened to "We must lynch JieXian tomorrow"? | ||
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This makes it seem like you have extra intel: On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? | ||
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a) looks really really desperate b) Kush has a really really good case on you | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:55 Djodref wrote: I don't plan on defending myself. I'll devote myself to get Kush lynched. But I have at least 12 hours of flight then I have 10 hours more to get to my hometown. That's too bad then, 'cause I'll be lynching you. | ||
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On December 21 2012 09:56 Djodref wrote: It's scumslips. I know scum Kush, I know his meta and I know they are scumslips If you knew anything about Kush's meta, you'd realize that he "scumslips" as town every other post. | ||
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On December 21 2012 10:03 Djodref wrote: If you really knew Kush scum meta, you'd realize that he is scum... Then make a case and explain it to me instead of flinging around random quotes in the thread! | ||
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Enjoy your vacation, but I expect both a defense and a case (explaining why these are actually scumslips) when you get back. | ||
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On December 21 2012 10:06 Eywa- wrote: I'm torn right now... First thought is still obviously you because of your play in general... And the fact you're not dead. Otherwise, I have no scum reads, I can reason as to why each one of these players is scum which is not a good thing at this point, but you're the only one that I can honestly say, should be dead... lol. There are plenty of acceptable scumreads to have right now. I am not one of them. | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? | ||
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How do you know that I got shot? How could I be scum if I got shot? | ||
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On December 21 2012 13:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm really hesitant to vote Djo right now, simply because I cannot pair him with a scumbuddy. Nobody in this thread makes sense as his scumbuddy, unless you count me as scum, in which case then that makes sense. The only thing that is scummy about him is his indecision at lynch time, and nothing more. 3 others were reluctant to vote DYH at lynch time, not just him. Hapa, I really do think you're wrong with this one, and calling Kush 99% town simply because he is using good logic is kind of crap. Logic comes from both sides of the spectrum. I DO WAT I WANT! In all seriousness, I have legitimate reasons to lynch just about every player here. I also have reasons to think that every player here is town. Tomorrow I have a day off, so I'll go through filters deeply and see if I can peg a scumteam. Hopefully I'll be able to find something a little more convincing somewhere. | ||
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I think the general gist of me being "confirmed town" is that I have a 20-something page filter, and that I pushed the DYH lynch through despite a lot of opposition. Of course you can't discount the possibility of a bus (I mean why am I still alive... geez...), but the size of my filter and my engagement in the game should convince you that I'm town. | ||
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On December 22 2012 03:07 JieXian wrote: that was some trolling, yes. Aren't I allowed to have some fun after yelling the entire game? :D come on :D Yeah, that's probably my ego having an issue more than me actually finding it scummy. Though can you talk to me about your current scumreads? I want to see you do some analysis. | ||
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Well more on that in the next hour or so - I'm typing something up on Eywa at the moment. | ||
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Eywa- Introduction: In many ways, Eywa's play reminds me of Kush's mafia play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548&user=200457 In that game (Newbie XXVII), Kush is an insanely active scum-player whom many dismissed as "too fearless/crazy to be scum." As a result, townies avoided looking at his filter and analyzing just how much mafia-motivation there was behind his posts. A lot of the arguments for "town" Eywa have been that he's too active and fearless to be scum. I can sympathize with this because this is normally a pretty reliable tell for first-time forum players. However, Eywa is not a first time player. He's an outspoken individual who is very familiar with the mindset of playing mafia. "Fearlessness" is an excuse to dismiss a scum-slip or two. But when someone's filter is littered in mafia-motivation, it's no longer sufficient. As an additional note, I initially took a lot of townie vibes from Eywa's "mood-shift" in Day 2. However, when you look at his analysis over those days... it's pretty... not... convincing... 1) A votecount list calling a bunch of people "possible scum" (also calls DYH "not scum") http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=70#1397 2) A list putting suspicion on virtually every single player in the game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=71#1402 3) A "hypothesis" spreading suspicion on multiple players (also defends DYH) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=74#1462 Table of Contents: 1) Day 1 Play (Lynch + N1) 2) Stance on DYH 3) Stance on Mr.Cheesecake + MrZ ***This should seal the deal*** 4) The Scumslip to End All Slips 1) Day 1 Play My previously posted case talks about this. The analysis still stands, since it was dropped due to Eywa's "fearlessness" rather than him actually defending himself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=43#852 2) Stance on DYH The first time that Eywa mentions DYH is early in D2, where he calls DYH "not scum" for no reasoning, and then soft-defends him: + Show Spoiler + On December 18 2012 11:47 Eywa- wrote: Yeah, given the lack of posting I'd say people have lost their sanity already. Though, let's look at the situation as it stands: Hapahauli (Possible Scum) - 2 Votes Eywa- () - 2 Votes (one of which is impossible to change) Jie Xian - 1 vote (Not really Scummy, not likely to get majority vote) Kush - 0 votes (Possible Scum, mostly overlooked) MrV - 1 vote (Not Scum) Mr.Cheesecake - 0 votes (Scum) DoYouHas - 0 votes (Not Scum) Drakaz - 0 votes (Possible Scum) Djodref - 0 (Possible Scum) I think DoYouHas has taken a far too impersonal approach to the game so far... He hasn't really seemed to care what has gone on and generally has just sponged off other people, really doesn't make sense to call him mafia. Also, when attacked he hasn't fled ... Point taken, however, you must keep in mind that doyouhas will have no power to persuade anyone, so assume he is mafia, we're better off lynching his allies. I finally convince him to vote one of the "lurkers." He initially wants to lynch Kush and Djo, but he eventually slides on DYH: + Show Spoiler + On December 18 2012 12:29 Eywa- wrote: #unvote It's very possible that the scum in the town are all the quiet guys, while I was leaning away from DoYouHas, I wouldn't mind siding against him in the end, however not as a first lynch. I'd go for Kush or Djodref. On December 18 2012 12:34 Eywa- wrote: Sounds fine by me, Kush and Djoref should post why they should be kept before the day ends. #vote DYH Where things start to get strange is his unvote of DYH, where he offers some strange analysis, then magically "sees no scum" in DYH for absolutely no reasoning. On December 18 2012 23:35 Eywa- wrote: ... For a moment I thought that DoYouHas didn't look scummy at all... But then I was trying to put together the pieces on his obsession with MrZentor and I found that... Why would anyone push for that lynch? To prove innocent. In the scenario where DoYouHas would be scum, MrZentor is as well given that they've kind of been on with their little side show for quite some time. I mean there's no reasonable explanation as to why DoYouHas just went after MrZentor other than MrZentor is a guaranteed non-lynch. By this, he throws out a vote while not bothering the disputing players (me and hapahauli + CC). MrZentor then throws his vote at DoYouHas knowing that before the day is over, there will be enough proof going for DoYouHas to disprove him being a mafia member. Now this is highly advanced play, so I kind of doubt it's the reality. ... On December 19 2012 05:04 Eywa- wrote: #unvote Hapahauli, I see no scum on DoYouHas right now... I'm not sure (of course, I can't be sure... But I think I have a good idea of what's going on). Would you be willing to vote either CC or Djodref today? Then, Eywa moves into hard-defending DYH, and pushing the Mr. CC lynch. He does this for zero valid reasoning. + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 02:41 Eywa- wrote: Your entire investigation of DYH is reliant on him being a very strong and confident mafia member, which he doesn't seem to be... Mafia members find it hard to push targets unless they're the second to the story or it's an easy target... Your case was neither. Mr.CC is just that guy with no backbone who follows and tries to not be seen. Considering that added up with his countless mistakes, he's an obvious pick for the lynch. On December 20 2012 03:19 Eywa- wrote: If you're putting DYH up as scum, that means you're also putting up drazak and Kush, it's the only possible combo of 3 I can see working out... Which I would have to deem unlikely. 3) Mr. CC Lynch For most of D2, Eywa leads a bandwagon on Mr. Cheesecake. He's apparently convinced Mr. CC is scum and will not compromise: On December 20 2012 02:34 Eywa- wrote: Mr.Cheesecake is my lynch, I will not compromise. Page 11 of Eywa's filter should show just how convinced he is that Mr.CC is scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816&user=93681¤tpage=11 But right after DYH posts his case on MrZ... On December 20 2012 04:40 Eywa- wrote: #unvote #vote MrZentor This makes zero sense. Eywa provides zero analysis on MrZ and votes him. This makes even less sense considering that when I was pushing MrZ the night before, Eywa was defending MrZ. Hell Eywa's top town read in the game was MrZ only one hour before! On December 20 2012 03:30 Eywa- wrote: My witchcraft vote today went out on MrZentor and nobody. So Eywa turned down voting the guy he was convinced was scum (Mr.CC) in favor of voting his top town read an hour prior for zero rationale. The only motivation I can attach to his actions is that he wanted someone dead - anyone but his scumbuddy DYH. 4) The "Scumslip" This one is pretty simple. Eywa is convinced I'm a part of the scumteam has thought I'm scum all game. On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? But then, somehow he knows that I was shot by a witch-hunter bullet. Now alone, the second post is reasonable. After all, I'm the only other obvious witchcraft candidate after Day 1. However, the possibility of me getting shot should not even cross Eywa's mind if he actually thinks I'm scum. After all, scum can't be shot. I have made every attempt to rationalize this from a town perspective. I cannot. I have made every attempt to get Eywa to answer for this. He's only provided us with a non-answer: On December 21 2012 10:41 Eywa- wrote: There are still 2 scum which means, the names above aren't cleared by any means... Why else would they not have used it on Kush if they knew he was blue? In conclusion, Eywa's actions show far too much mafia-motivation for us not to lynch him. Maybe I could excuse one or two of the things above. However there's just too much of his behavior that lines up with a mafia mindset for me not to lynch him. | ||
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##Vote Eywa- | ||
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Part of me is still conflicted by this. Like the only way I can see him flipping town is if he's a player that posts completely random things that come to his mind. The problem is that this is entirely possible considering his player-type. But at the end of the day, either he's: a) Posting completely random things b) He's mafia Option "b" seems far more likely given just how scummy his play has been so far. | ||
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As for kush... maybe. Part of the reason I'm hesitant is that kusb seems far too level-headed for his scum play. Kush is a guy that wears his emotions on his sleeve, and his scum play is very angry and/or whiny as a result. When he's calim, Kush has always flipped town. | ||
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On December 22 2012 07:59 Eywa- wrote: Okay, so assume you're right about Kush... Then who's my scum partner? You tell me. I'm curious. | ||
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1) Why did you vote MrZ at the end of D2 when he was your top town-read, and you stated that you were unwilling to compromise on voting Mr.CC? 2) Explain your "slip" to me: On December 20 2012 03:35 Eywa- wrote: Djodref, Mr.Cheesecake, Hapahauli Who's assisting these guys? In particular: How do you know that I got shot? How could I be scum if I got shot? | ||
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3) What is your read on Mr.CC? | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. What do you mean my "targeting?" The way I'm reading this, is that you think scum was trying to get MrZ lynched. The only person who was trying to get MrZ lynched was DYH. So... you tried to force a no-lynch by getting your top town-read lynched, when the only guy "targeting" MrZ was the other guy on the chopping block? 2) Well, either you're scum or you were shot... I'm kind of confused as to how you're still alive either way. Yes I get that, but you were convinced I was scum for a while. How could you even consider the fact that I was shot, much less answer kush with as much certainty as you did (the 2nd quote)? 3) I don't think he's scum anymore... Though, I can't be sure. His argument seems to be based around not liking me, so that makes him seem not-scum, however, if he were scum, he'd know I'm town, thus might see me as an easy target and he knows that you won't look at him as a valid lynch. Why don't you think he's scum any more? What about his currently play has changed your opinion? | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You were targeting MrZ... Scum hope for no-lynches... Also, my argument is based on the fact that you're scum. I also don't like you. Stop it CC. I don't care if you don't like him - I want to get this lynch correct, and random antagonistic comments are not going to help that. | ||
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I still didn't get your answer to the most concerning bit. Can you please elaborate on this statement? On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. This doesn't make very much sense. The only person that was targeting MrZ was DoYouHas. DYH was also the other lynch option. If you thought scum was "targeting" MrZ, why would you object to lynching DYH, who was the only person targeting MrZ at the time? | ||
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Where you guys at? Need to here more from ya. | ||
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On December 22 2012 13:58 kushm4sta wrote: @hapa I get that you want to flex your mafia epeen or whatever, so you want to believe that your ewya case is better than my djo case, but it's not. cool you wrote some long shit with a table of contents. cool. The amount of effort you put into something doesn't make the person you decided was scum 5 days ago more scummy. Listen. If you can convince me to vote Djo, I will do so. However, can you rationale sections 3 and 4 in my case from a "town-Eway" perspective? (I actually want you to answer this) | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. The problem, is that this makes no sense... because... On December 22 2012 12:36 Hapahauli wrote: ... This doesn't make very much sense. The only person that was targeting MrZ was DoYouHas. DYH was also the other lynch option. If you thought scum was "targeting" MrZ, why would you object to lynching DYH, who was the only person targeting MrZ at the time? | ||
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Ewya: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=112#2232 Anyway, that's my last post for a while. I'll be busy the rest of the night. See y'alls tomorrow! | ||
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On December 23 2012 03:37 Eywa- wrote: ##unvote ##vote Djodref On December 23 2012 03:50 Eywa- wrote: I can make my posture be whatever I want it to... It's not difficult, you can't see my expression or read if I'm lying. If I tell you that I expect this game to end in scum victory and I tell you I think Hapahauli is scum and then I tell you I am only telling the truth in one... You can't tell which it is, you can't tell if the last statement is true either, there's no emotion put into any of these. Otherwise, the entirety of D3 he's been floundering around helpless to identify rationale a single one of his reads. | ||
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Can you please elaborate on this statement? On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. This doesn't make very much sense. The only person that was targeting MrZ was DoYouHas. DYH was also the other lynch option. If you thought scum was "targeting" MrZ, why would you object to lynching DYH, who was the only person targeting MrZ at the time? | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:30 Eywa- wrote: I haven't offered any scum reads this game... So D3 isn't special. What was that Mr.CC stuff then? Were you trying to lynch him for shits and giggles? | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:32 ghost_403 wrote: Eywa- is playing terribly, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. Djo is playing scummy because he's scum. I'm off, catch you guys on the flip side. ... you have read my Eywa case right? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=112#2232 Like I sympathize with you on "terrible", but I simply cannot rationalize his behavior from a town perspective. The guy voted his top town read (MrZ) to nolynch (preventing lynch of DYH) because he thought scum was targeting MrZ (who was being pushed by DYH). Describe how that's townie to me. | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:35 Eywa- wrote: I had no idea that doyouhas was scum, your assumption was that I knew dyh was scum despite the fact that it was clearly indicated otherwise. No no you don't understand the question. Broken down: 1) You thought scum was "targeting" MrZ 2) But... the only player that was "targeting" MrZ was DoYouHas 3) The only person you could have reasonably thought was scum was indeed DYH | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:14 ghost_403 wrote: @MrCC: At least Eywa talks to DYH in thread. Examining his filter for 30 secounds shows that he actually responds to the stuff that DYH lobs in his general direction. Typically, scumbuddies don't do that; they fear talking to each other too cordially in thread, and talk about serious stuff outside of the thread. I don't see his interactions with DYH implying that he's scum. You have a very unsophisticated view about how scumteams work. | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:48 JieXian wrote: Eywa I've been having a strong town read on you for reasons that can also be rationalised as scummy, though it'll be weaker. I just need you to help me answer the only question I have Are you looking for excuses to find that he's not scum, or are you looking for scum JX? In addition, that's not the only thing he needs to answer for. See section 3 of my case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=112#2232 On the Day 2 lynch, he voted for his top town read instead of DoYouHas. | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:30 Eywa- wrote: I haven't offered any scum reads this game... So D3 isn't special. "Yeah, ya know all those scumreads and stuff I was doing early the game? They were all lies, I never believed one of them and never had a scumread." | ||
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On December 23 2012 04:57 JieXian wrote: I already stated that I have a strong townie read on him and a scum read was weaker. That voting on mrz can be rationalised by my exact actions that day voting for mrz to sway the vote away from the target of one's top suspects at that time, hapa and mrcc. No no, see the problem is that MrZ was his top town read, and Eywa voted for him. Why would you vote for your top town read over someone you think has a chance of flipping scum? And don't forget, Eywa never had any scumreads this game: On December 23 2012 04:30 Eywa- wrote: I haven't offered any scum reads this game... So D3 isn't special. | ||
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So what was all that Mr.CC stuff then? He wanted to get Mr.CC lynched for shits and giggles. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:04 JieXian wrote: he's just saying who he voted for witchcraft, that's NOT a townie read. He could be lying too. He hasn't offered long posts with spoilers like you all do. That's true too. You case sucks. Still, I'm keeping my vote on eywa until he answers me with some simple logical explaination if he has one. ##Vote Eywa- Why would he lie about a witchcraft read unless he was mafia? Secondly, a witchcraft vote does imply that he thinks MrZ is town. You vote your townreads for witchcraft - it's the basic mechanic. Not only that, but he refuses to vote anyone other than MrZ, implying that MrZ is the ONLY strong town read he has. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:07 JieXian wrote: No, I made a mistake of voting my strong townie read on D1 and I didn't repeat it That was Thrawn right? | ||
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Think about it. Eywa doesn't have any scumreads right now. EYWA. That sure as hell isn't town. It's scum losing motivation to play the game. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:14 JieXian wrote: wth no, it was dp. I was thinking thrawn was mafia the whole of D1 remember Oh, well that's pretty inconsequential early-game pressure vote, as opposed to trying to get your top town read LYNCHED. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:19 JieXian wrote: I didn't state my town reads either and I've been getting a lot of shit from you with the morbid case. He just doesn't have to post every single townie read he has What does this have to do with the matter at hand JX? I'm not attacking him for not posting town reads. I'm attacking him because he went after the one town read he posted! | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:21 JieXian wrote: ? inconsequential early-game pressure vote? thrawn? how is this related to eywa Your vote on DP was an inconsequential early-game pressure vote. Whereas Eywas vote on MrZ was an attempt to ride a counterwagon against confirmed scum (DYH). | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:22 JieXian wrote: ok so we can agree that eywa voted his ONLY town read and not his TOP town read Yes we can. What's the difference? | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:23 Eywa- wrote: Though, DYH decided to vote MrZ rather than Mr.Cheesecake. Doesn't change the fact that you voted a town read to prevent DYH from getting lynched. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:25 Eywa- wrote: You're right, however, your stating of that fact has no value either. Sure it has value. Because it's scummy. You voted for someone you thought was town to prevent scum from getting lynched. Mafia do those sorts of things. | ||
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Can you please elaborate on this statement? On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. This doesn't make very much sense. The only person that was targeting MrZ was DoYouHas. DYH was also the other lynch option. If you thought scum was "targeting" MrZ, why would you object to lynching DYH, who was the only person targeting MrZ at the time? | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:30 JieXian wrote: the difference is that mrz may only to be a slight townish guy to him. My witchcraft votes went to slight townish guys last time When I was going after MrZ for a couple of hours on D2, Eywa was defending him. | ||
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On December 18 2012 11:47 Eywa- wrote: Yeah, given the lack of posting I'd say people have lost their sanity already. Though, let's look at the situation as it stands: Hapahauli (Possible Scum) - 2 Votes Eywa- () - 2 Votes (one of which is impossible to change) Jie Xian - 1 vote (Not really Scummy, not likely to get majority vote) Kush - 0 votes (Possible Scum, mostly overlooked) MrV - 1 vote (Not Scum) Mr.Cheesecake - 0 votes (Scum) DoYouHas - 0 votes (Not Scum) Drakaz - 0 votes (Possible Scum) Djodref - 0 (Possible Scum) He calls DYH not scum as well, but shortly after this post, I coaxed him into voting DYH (albeit temporarily). | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:33 JieXian wrote: Ok I'm going to stop defending eywa until he answers the only question I have of him, if he ever does Well good luck. I've been trying to get a straight answer from him for the last 48 hours. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:34 Eywa- wrote: I think you're either drunk or also incapable of thinking... Of course, I went after MrZ because I thought scum was targeting him which is also why I said "I THINK DYH IS TOWN"... Like, please, don't ask questions that have been answered, it's redundant. The only reason I voted DYH was because I knew I had time to switch my vote, at no point did I have any intention on staying there... Again, please read the dialog. Apparently you thought MrZ was being targeted by mafia. Who is that mafia then? No one? Because there wasn't a single other person going after MrZ. | ||
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On December 22 2012 08:26 Eywa- wrote: 1) I thought that scum were targeting MrZ and I was kind of just hoping for a no-lynch. Who was the mafia that was "targeting" MrZ then? The only person "Targeting" MrZ was DYH. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:48 Eywa- wrote: Huh... That was a typo... "I thought scum were targeting MrZ, therefore I was hoping for a no-lynch by voting MrZ"... If you read that without thinking it's a typo then you probably don't understand that the statement is impossible. substitute DYH for MrZ in that statement you quoted and it makes sense. Oh. Well christ you could have told me that earlier. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:02 JieXian wrote: it fits with what he has been doing all game Yes, but what he's been doing all game isn't townie. Well if there's someone on the DYH bandwagon that's scum, it's probably Djo. He was likely my target for tomorrow anyway. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:05 JieXian wrote: just so you know, a mrcc + djo scum team EXPLAINS why hapa isn't dead yet A JX + Eywa scumteam explains this as well. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:08 Djodref wrote: Am I seriously being lynched ? I cannot believe it... Like, I have good points made against me, but I've put a great effort to assert my townieness this game, and I feel really depressed to be mislynched right now, it's not like Eywa and JieXian were not obviously scum right now. Kush has been as stupid as usual and ghost didn't even read this game. And seriously, so much confirmation bias from Kush, I cannot believe it, like I've been fucking scumhunting this game. The worse thing is that I don't feel like I can do anything about it... Can you post some reads Djo? | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:12 JieXian wrote: Think about it, djo and mrcc are bffs with hapa The problem is, that would imply that two people are on the DYH wagon, and chose to vote DYH over an easy MrZ lynch. Strategically I can't see that happening. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:14 JieXian wrote: hapa I'm not sure if you're mafia right now but think about it, DYH didn't give a flying fuck about getting lynched Yeah, that's called scum-motivation and not "I know I'm going to get bussed." Think about it - scum could have secured the MrZ lynch EASY. Why didn't they do it? | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:15 kushm4sta wrote: hapa is cheesecake making sense? We both agree that Eywa is scum yes. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:18 JieXian wrote: You do notice you're questioning people for not doing it right now right? Not doing what now? | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:21 JieXian wrote: You're questioning their very alleigance for bussing or not bussing and you're asking me about the benefits of bussing? Don't you do realise how hypocritical it is? The very benefit of bussing was to have some townie cred like what you're doing with them now Where are you reading into that? I'm not questioning there's something to be gained from bussing. I'm questioning how bussing is even likely in this scenario, given that there was an easy mislynch available. I can see one teammate bussing (perhaps Djo). Two is a bit of a stretch. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:29 JieXian wrote: your last case on my sucked enough for me to consider you being scum Martyring = not a good way to play this situation out if you're town. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote: the only hting that is giving me pause here is cheesecake looks really town. Like it's just a feel read but if he is scum he is inhabiting the mind of a town really well. I mean even if you think Djo is scum... who's the scumbuddy? You think I'm town. CC seems REALLY town... the only person that makes sense is Eywa. Win-win. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:37 JieXian wrote: More proof that Djo's lying: Djo, explain this please. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Then we can lynch hapa / djo tomorrow and gg win? That was a quick 180. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:49 JieXian wrote: ##unvote ##Vote Hapahauli let's do this So is there a reason you think I"m scum other than "why am I not dead?" | ||
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I'll be posting my final thoughts sometime tomorrow morning or before the deadline (I'll be travelling tomorrow for a couple of hours, so I'm not sure if I'll be here around the deadline). | ||
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1) Djo is probably scum. If there are any players looking bad after last night's exchange, it's Djo. Now him voting Eywa isn't bad (since he had to in order to survive. However, the way he suddenly started pushing the idea that "oh there's no way that Eywa is going to flip town" near the lynch deadline is pretty bad. He's been convinced that three players were going to flip scum yesterday: Kush, JX, and finally Eywa. His early-martyring and detachment also read as pretty scummy. Finally, the way he pushed Kush's case is seems scummy rather than rage-phone posting in retrospect. 2) Second Scum By association, I don't think it's kush unless it was their plan just to throw shit at each other all game. Definitely possible, but I don't think it's likely. The most likely scum-team member seems to be Mr. CC. While his filter has quite a few pages, most of it is him screaming "Eywa is scum!" over and over again. Not that I haven't either, but there's remarkably little analysis in Mr.CC's filter, and unless he starts contributing in a big way tomorrow, I have no reason to change that opinion. Mr.CC/Djo scumteam also would explain why I'm alive right now - I've been their buddies for most of the game. I don't think JX is scum. Him setting himself up to look like an ass post-DYH flip makes it implausible. There's a huge difference between setting yourself up to look like a stupid townie by playing ignorant about the flip, and setting yourself to look like an asshole by being convinced that DYH isn't scum and doing everything to antagonize the other players on the wagon. | ||
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a) I'm the only person that has caught scum this game b) I'm by far the most active player in this thread c) The only reason this town is active is because of my posting on Day 1 and beyond. Sounds reasonable. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: In all seriousness if Eywa is town, I'd say hapa is scum tho. On December 23 2012 06:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Then we can lynch hapa / djo tomorrow and gg win? On December 23 2012 06:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If you flip town Eywa, I'll lynch Hapa tomorrow. On December 23 2012 06:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hey I'll lynch Djo or Hapa if you're town. There's zero reason Mr.CC should have been playing the speculating game in this manner. He was 100% balls-out convinced that Eywa is scum. This stuff shouldn't even cross his mind, much less his end-of-the-day filter being littered with it. | ||
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A CC/Djo scumteam has four NK options 1) Kill ghost. Not a good idea, since that would confirm my green check on him. 2) Kill me. Not a good idea, since they're pushing me for a mislynch + it would confirm ghost as town. 3) Kill JieXian. Not a good idea, since JX is trying to lynch me. 4) Kill kush. Best idea, since kush believes Djo is scum. If kush doesn't die, I either successfully roleblocked scum, or I blocked the NK of the scumteam. I'm convinced the latter is correct. Alternatively I could gamble on a roleblock, but it's 50/50. I could DT check, but I have a high risk of getting roleblocked tonight by scum. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:59 Hapahauli wrote: I won the witchcraft elections. I'm Jailkeeping Kush today for the following reasons: A CC/Djo scumteam has four NK options 1) Kill ghost. Not a good idea, since that would confirm my green check on him. 2) Kill me. Not a good idea, since they're pushing me for a mislynch + it would confirm ghost as town. 3) Kill JieXian. Not a good idea, since JX is trying to lynch me. 4) Kill kush. Best idea, since kush believes Djo is scum. If kush doesn't die, I either successfully roleblocked scum, or I blocked the NK of the scumteam. I'm convinced the latter is correct. Alternatively I could gamble on a roleblock, but it's 50/50. I could DT check, but I have a high risk of getting roleblocked tonight by scum. | ||
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Thoughts on this development? | ||
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##Vote Djodref | ||
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Firstly, we're going to no-lynch today at worst. Mr.CC, Kush, and JieXian vs. Hapa, Ghost, and Kush. We win the game today if Jiexian switches. If not, we no-lynch. Secondly, I can PROVE that I'm town tonight through the witchcraft elections. Mr.CC, Kush, and JieXian can vote for one candidate. Ghost, and Kush can vote for me. I will not vote, and I will still win the election. Therefore, I will be able to prove that I'm town, which will prove that ghost is town after this day-cycle is over. The jig is up Mr.CC/Djo. GG. | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:44 Hapahauli wrote: Why town wins: Firstly, we're going to no-lynch today at worst. Mr.CC, Djo, and JieXian vs. Hapa, Ghost, and Kush. We win the game today if Jiexian switches. If not, we no-lynch. Secondly, I can PROVE that I'm town tonight through the witchcraft elections. Mr.CC, Djo, and JieXian can vote for one candidate. Ghost, and Kush can vote for me. I will not vote, and I will still win the election. Therefore, I will be able to prove that I'm town, which will prove that ghost is town after this day-cycle is over. The jig is up Mr.CC/Djo. GG. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote: It seems pretty obvious that Mr.CC is scum at this point. He was setting up to lynch me all before Eywa's flip: There's zero reason Mr.CC should have been playing the speculating game in this manner. He was 100% balls-out convinced that Eywa is scum. This stuff shouldn't even cross his mind, much less his end-of-the-day filter being littered with it. | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:11 Djodref wrote: This is scummy, but that's not enough to get me sold on a scum CC. He was really convinced that Eywa was scum, and I don't think that he really consider the case where Eywa was going to flip town seriously. I really feel CC sincere and passionate in his interactions with Eywa... Passionately tunneling him. I'd understand if he sarcastically quipped once that he would lynch me if Eywa flipped town. This is not the case. He is far too concerned about Eywa flipping green for this to be legit. | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:17 kushm4sta wrote: wow hapa thanks for saving me from my first nk i guess? if i was jk would I have gotten a pm? cause I didn't get any pm Because you're the only logical NK target of a Mr.CC/Djodref scumteam (as I outlined previously) If you died, I'd be in a situation where JieXian, Mr.CC, and Djo could force a lynch on me. I'd like to think that JieXian would be open to changing his mind, but this is simply not the case. | ||
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If we no-lynch, we can solve this game. | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: How? Yo Djo, is Kush / JX possible? Anyone? I'll get to it tomorrow. It requires some thinking, but based on witch-craft vote results, I should be able to figure things out based on the game situation. In the mean time CC, please bus your scumbuddy (Djo). | ||
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Ok that's not productive discussion, so let's get to this: On December 23 2012 06:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: In all seriousness if Eywa is town, I'd say hapa is scum tho. On December 23 2012 06:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Then we can lynch hapa / djo tomorrow and gg win? On December 23 2012 06:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If you flip town Eywa, I'll lynch Hapa tomorrow. There's no way you should have seriously considered this as you have if you were "100% convinced" about Eywa's guilt. Explain. | ||
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On December 23 2012 06:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You're actually making sense right now. Should have started to do that from D1. On December 23 2012 07:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I won't even feel bad if you're town. | ||
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So let's move on to a more humorous subject - why do you think I'm scum? | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: because it's either yu + ghost or kush / JX. Don't think JX kush is that likely tho. Just because you've acted all townie and such -- which is why I buddied with you, because I typically buddy my top town read -- and pushed a scum lynch doesn't mean you're not scum. Hapa being hapa, totally possible for you to have organized that bus. Either way im not going to convince you either way. Show me one scum-game that I've bussed a teammate. Show me another where I've had a 27 page filter. | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also: Why did you "check" Ghost? Why not Eywa? Djo? These would make more sense considering they were your scumreads. Drazak was my scumread at that point in the game. Djo was not. Why are you lying? | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Why? He was a lurker being replaced. I don't understand why you'd check him over someone who was as scummy as Eywa. Cop checks are about eliminating possibilities, not checking top scumreads. Why would I check a guy that I thought was going to check red? Cop checks are for people you know nothing about. See Cop Guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232671 2.) Don't investigate scummy people that are almost surely going to be lynched The reason for this is that if there is a Vigilante in the game, chances are they will shoot them. Don't waste your night. Investigate other scummy people that are off the radar of the town. See Newbie XXIII Post-Game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=59#1164 | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It doesn't make much sense at all. That's why im trying to rationalize it, which i was doing most of D3 with everyone else. I dismissed kush/jx because it didn't make sense. Kush pushed a JX lynch, I don't see his motiv for doing that when he could have just bussed DYH hardcore. I still think its a very very slight possibility, but you and ghost seem to be the scumteam if I discount kush/jx So if I can prove that I'm town with ghost (which I can after the witchcraft elections tonight 100% guaranteed AT MINIMUM), who would be your scumteam? | ||
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No one votes except for me. I vote for (player X). Player X wins witchcraft. | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: My scumread on you is inexusable from a town perspective? JX thinks you're scummy too. JX was atleast consistent. Crazy, but consistent all game with it. You went from "hapa's my buddy 100% town" to "why you so good at scum?" | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I actually like that idea Hapa. Everybody vote for nobody. Hapa, vote for Kush or JX or someone you think is town. But the trick is to devise something even better! Until then, please bus Djo. | ||
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On December 24 2012 09:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Wait why do you need to prove Kush town? I thought you were trying to prove Ghost town. Because I need to make sure that I didn't block scum-kush taking the shot silly. | ||
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If you actually think I'm scum with 27 pages of filter and counting, you're tripping on something serious. Or you're scum. | ||
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On December 24 2012 10:34 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Content doesn't matter, but I'll grant you that it's odd. Although most of this 141 page thread has been spamming pointless crap. Myself included. Biggest non-answer ever. 28-page filter now. Longer than any scumgame in the history of TL by miles. So am I scum or not CC? Give me an answer. | ||
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On December 24 2012 10:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: How about nobody vote anybody. I'll vote you, Hapa. Then you'll realize I'm town? I can do that. So you trust me now then? | ||
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Honestly I'm back to thinking you're town at this point. 20 pages of filter mayne. Plus you've been the most responsive out of anyone here. I'd be down for checking kush's alignment with a vote of some sort. | ||
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On December 24 2012 11:36 kushm4sta wrote: This witchcraft manipulation thing: Can you summarize your proposal so I can just read it and understand wtf you are saying? Because right now it doesn't make sense to me at all. Cheesecake/djo does not feel right. Cheesecake's hard defense of djo definitely has scum motivation, but it's not a scum-like thing to do. This shit with you jking me and preventing a NK. It rubs me the wrong way. -If I were scum hands down I would kill ghost. Confirmed town at this stage of the game is huge. -You are wrong about ghost flipping green confirms you green. Hypothetically if you are red and ghost is green, what else would you do? You wouldn't call him red if he's green. The basic idea, is that we can confirm a townie with witchcraft votes. For example, let's say we wanted to confirm you as town/scum/whatever. I'd order you to vote for Player A first. Then I'd order another player to vote for Player B second. If Player A wins witchcraft, you are town. If player B wins witchcraft, you are scum. If no player wins witchcraft, you're both scum. And if I was red, I wouldn't call ghost anything. I'd just lead a mislynch on him. | ||
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Fortunately we have a 72 hour day. I'll let y'all know what I come up with. | ||
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On December 17 2012 06:05 Blazinghand wrote: Final Vote Count! Morbidius (8) - Drazak, MrZentor, DP, MrCheesecake, DoYouHas, threesr, Hapahauli, kushm4sta threesr (1) - Djodref Mr. Cheesecake (1) - thrawn MrZentor (1) - Morbidius Hapahauli (1) - Eywa- thrawn2112 (1) - Jiexian *Kush was a last-minute vote on morbidius (from threesr) On December 20 2012 06:43 Keirathi wrote: Vote Count! DoYouHas (5) - Hapahauli, MrZentor, Mr. Cheesecake, Djodref, kush MrZentor (2) - DoYouHas, Eywa-, JieXian Mr. Cheesecake (0) - Not Voting (1) - Drazak *JieXian was a last-minute vote on MrZ *Kush pushed a Djo lynch for most of D2 before settling on DYH On December 23 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote: Vote Count! Djodref (1) - ghost_403, Ewya- (4) - Hapahauli, Djodref, MrCheesecake, kushm4sta Hapahauli (2) - Eywa, JieXian | ||
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So we're at a 6-player mylo. The only sensible option here is to no-lynch. ##unvote ##Vote no-lynch So the secret to this game is to figure out whether Djo is scum or not. If Djo is scum, I'm not sure who the scum-buddy is, but we'll lynch Djo and find out later. However, if Djo is town, the scumteam is very likely Kush/JX. While I initially dismissed the idea of Kush/JX initially (due to Kush proposing a last-minute JX lynch on D2), it is plausible considering that Kush never really followed-through with the idea. So here's my proposed plan: 1) Djo will vote for 1 player in a witchcraft election. 2) For insurance purposes, I will vote for a 2nd player in the witchcraft elections (just so that if Djo is scum, someone will get elected) 3) No one else votes WC tonight We will be able to confirm if Djo is town or not. Thoughts? Also please propose a player that Djo and I will vote. | ||
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I have currently NOT sent my vote in. Also, both of you please vote no-lynch today. It's 6 player mylo. | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Though what if scum didnt shoot twice, and you're trying to bait a blue witchhunter kill and then NK for the win? Ahhhh if that's the plan you're awesome scum Hapa :p I find it funny that so many people are infinitely paranoid of my scum-play, when I've played a grand total of 2 games as scum, and got lynched D1 in my most recent scum-game >> | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: g Hapa, idk you're just awesome like that and stuff. I'm afraid of just getting completely roflstomped by your amazing scum play. but srsly the fact that we are agreeing to do this is pretty indicative that we're town and we know we can be assholes with this nolynch. The fact that Kush d oesnt want to manipulate this lynch is also saying something... Kush/jx... if you want to concede now thats cool so we don't have to wait forever. Kush seems... really scared of this based on his posts so far. JX and Djo haven't posted, so we'll see how they react. | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:38 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Im pretty sure djo will be all for it. No reason he shouldnt be if he's town. This will confirm him, ill get blue etc etc Well he kinda has to be "all for it" as scum or town. I'm honestly not that convinced he's town. Hopefully all this will prove me wrong, because JX/Kush does seem like the most "believable" scumteam combo. Hard to link a buddy to Djo. | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:49 kushm4sta wrote: huh? I never said I didn't want to manipulate the vote. I just don't get it. Won't cheesecake get witchcraft no matter what? Only if Djo is town will CC win the vote. If Djo is not town, Ghost will win the vote. If neither Djo nor I are town, no one will win the vote and GG you have your scumteam. (Not possible, since I'm town =O) | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Although hapa, i still wouldnt know if you're town or not... Well you wouldn't have proof, but you'd have my hypnotic 29 page filter to look at. | ||
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On December 24 2012 13:58 ghost_403 wrote: This is ridiculous. I don't understand why we can't just lynch scum. I'll be back to take a look at this proposal sometime tomorrow. Yes, but why take the risk if we don't need to? We can be 100% sure on a lynch tomorrow if we no-lynch today. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1m_o4PK-02M/S-xG3ixwh-I/AAAAAAAAAGg/gB45b4n2ZHY/s1600/cheesecake.jpg) | ||
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Post when you've entered your vote. | ||
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My vote has been officially casted for ghost_403. So if CC wins the election, you are confirmed town Djo. If ghost wins, you are confirmed scum. | ||
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On December 24 2012 15:49 Djodref wrote: Voting Cheese doesn't pose my any problem. I'm quite happy with this vote ^^ It's done ! Sorry, this is rather important and will decide who we lynch tomorrow with 100% certainty. | ||
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On December 25 2012 01:17 kushm4sta wrote: I dont think hapa should be considered as green as he is. I'm still wary about that nk shit. >>BIG FILTERS DO NOT MAKE YOU TOWN<< I played with scum hapa once in LC. The only reason he died was because of the weak medic role (medic who dies if they protect scum). He looked very town and was very active. And that was his FIRST scum game. So there is a good reason to fear scum hapa. And if djo flips green, how are you green by association? That's actually wrong. I played a scum-game in Newbie XXI: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398 Also, just because I was active for a total of 3-4 hours as scum in Liquid City doesn't mean that my activity as scum extrapolates into a 30-page filter in 3 cycles. | ||
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On December 25 2012 03:16 ghost_403 wrote: Alright, voted no one for witchcraft powers. ##vote no lynch Let it be recorded that I hate abusing game mechanics/blue roles in this way. MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE sorry super excited. It's scum's fault for seemingly using both their vigi shots. They could've prevented this, but they didn't. | ||
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I'd like to see you do it and prove me wrong if you're townie Nah. I really don't have any shot at changing your mind so I don't feel like it. If Djo is confirmed as scum, I'll answer for this (but keep in mind that my "scum-strategy" this game would have been to "bus" two of my "teammates"). . If he flips town, I'm lynching you next. What do you expect to gain after djo's confirmation? Is this a serious question? "What do I expect to gain from mod-confirming a player's alignment?" | ||
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On December 27 2012 04:45 JieXian wrote: Guys, think about it the outcome of the elections again, if hapa really is townie, and MrCC wins: 1) DJO and MrCC gets confirmed townie. 2) Since Kush couldn't possibly be RBed from performing the NK, he'd be confirmed townie since hapa must have saved kush from the NK 3) We are left with Ghost and Me, and since Ghost supposedly got the green DT check from Hapa, we're left with one unconfirmed townie = me ie If Hapa is townie, his election plan will lead to a conclusion that only 1 scum is left Oh that's wrong. Kush wouldn't be confirmed town. It would just mean that I blocked Kush from taking the mafia shot. | ||
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On December 27 2012 05:02 JieXian wrote: ... False, if it were a kush/jx team my shot would have went through Uh... rofl? | ||
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On December 27 2012 05:09 JieXian wrote: Meaning there's 2 left so you couldn't possibly have RBed a mafia from the NK good to know you are agreeing God why am I doing this? What are you smoking? This has to be deliberate at this point. There are two mafia left. I could have RB'd the one taking the shot. If kush took the shot, and I JK'd him, the should wouldn't have gone through. | ||
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On December 27 2012 05:55 kushm4sta wrote: @hapa activity = town true or false? Activity is non-alignment indicative to a degree. However, 20+ pages of filter however's pretty alignment indicative. | ||
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On December 27 2012 05:57 kushm4sta wrote: I can tell you from personal scum experience no it's really not. Name me one scum game that went over 20 pages. The only one I've seen was marv's in Hero. | ||
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On December 27 2012 06:01 kushm4sta wrote: k so i know how to win against you if i ever get scum thanks Yeah, you'll have to be slightly more active than this to win against me. You're scum brah. | ||
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On December 27 2012 06:05 kushm4sta wrote: So hapa let me get this straight: im scum if djo flips town. im also scum if djo flips scum. Yep. In the beginning of the game you said, and I paraphrase,"Im fucking awesome guys but my only weakness is I always think active people are town." Then you proceeded to use activity for every town read and also your own defense. And this makes you not-scum why? Anywho, I have family over so I'll be away until the deadline. Peace. | ||
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On December 27 2012 06:11 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Wait, Hapa, you would seriously lynch kush over me if djo flips scum? Wtf? Just twisting some titties. Again, if djo flips scum, I'm much less sure on the 2nd scum, but yes I'd lean to lynching Kush. That's if djo flips scum of course. Does that seem likely at this point? | ||
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On December 27 2012 06:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Like, that makes no sense at all. If Djo is scum, I'm fucking 100% guaranteed scummer scum. Uhhhh. That's a pretty odd path of analysis. | ||
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On December 27 2012 06:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: No it's not. Djo kush makes no sense, djo jx makes no sense. djo me makes much more sense. So you're going to vote yourself if Djo flips scum? >> On December 27 2012 06:18 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Kush + JX If you're both town and think Hapa is scum, vote for Djo right now for witchcraft. Both of you. If you guys are town, djo wins the election and I don't. Let's not get carried away here. You're introducing too many variables. All we need to do right now is confirm Djo's alignment. | ||
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On December 27 2012 07:17 ghost_403 wrote: Well, good news everyone! I guess scum really didn't have a silver bullet left. That's fantastic. I was like 90% sure I was going to die on the spot. Obviously, Djo is confirmed scum. Lynch him first and then worry about his partner. I've been thinking that MrCC is his scumbuddy based on everything that happened Day 3, but that's just me. When I get back to Ohio, I'll spend some more time poring through all of that for my final thoughts on the matter. As for right now, we have plenty of time to figure out what's going on. The important thing is don't rely too heavily on the blue roles. Scum hunting should be able to end this game for us no problem at all. And I've randomly selected my actions from make myself a veteran, RB'ing our dear friend Djo, and JK'ing whoever is left. GL guessing what I've done, scum <3 Nah. I was pretty comfortable with the plan given that I didn't die when I claimed your check. At that stage of the game, everyone saw me as town anyway. | ||
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On December 27 2012 07:26 JieXian wrote: wth I was expecting hapa and mrcc together. I find it funny how it's about how it's about voted for witchcraft and we have a player named ghost. You were convinced it was Me and CC pre-flip. Why is this impossible in your view now? Couldn't a hypothetical CC/Hapa scumteam just be lying about this? And btw, no one answer this for him. | ||
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On December 27 2012 14:10 JieXian wrote: If even you believe that, I can't help but to agree lol lol so are you going to do the honours and vote yourself tomorrow? I'm testing to see if you're thinking. You did not pass the test. A CC/Hapa scumteam is impossible based on how the witchcraft actions went down. I'll give you another chance to find out why. | ||
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Regarding JieXian As much as I'd love to lynch JX for being an idiot, he's probably not scum. Djo goes after JX with such persistance in his filter that JX pretty much must be town. Djo is pretty much trying to get JX lynched in every phase/day of the game. Unless this is the most persistant bussing-attempt ever, JX is town. It's my general feeling that JX is playing far too suicidal to be scum anyway. It seems to fit. Regarding Kush Djo bombs cases on Kush throughout the game, Kush is similar, and his contributions (only major contribution) are his cases on Djo. I can't dismiss a double-bussing possibility (Kush/Djo scumteam would be capable of this). Such a plan would be plausible, because Djo really never followed through with his cases on Kush in any meaningful ways, and Kush, given the opportunity to secure a Djo lynch at the end of D3, consolidated on Eywa- instead. Is this likely? I'll have to look into it some more, but I doubt it's the case. For one, Djo seemed to be very genuinely threatened by Kush's case and started spamming "scumslips" in an active attempt to discredit Kush: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816&user=284165¤tpage=12 The above doesn't seem like a scum vs. scum interaction. Regarding Mr. CC Mr. CC is really the only one that's left. He's been behaving really townie in my eyes, so I'll have to comb over a kush/djo double-bus possibility some more. Of the 3 players above though, it feels like he has the highest chance to flip scum, activity or not. | ||
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Hapahauli
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1) CC would have won the election if Djo was town. 2) The above has to be true - there is no combination of two other scumteam members that could account for Djo getting framed. "Possibilities" are explored below: Scumteams not involving Mr.CC Any scumteam not involving Mr.CC means that Mr.CC is telling the truth about not winning (after all, he would have no reason to lie as town). Therefore, no scumteams not involving Mr.CC make sense. Mr.CC/Hapa scumteam - Impossible Impossible. Ghost would be town here, and he would have no reason to lie about winning the elections. I (hapa) cannot be scum in this setup, since no one else voted for Ghost yesterday. Mr.CC/Kush - Impossible In this setup, myself and ghost are town. Ghost has no reason to lie about winning the elections, therefore Djo could not have voted for Mr.CC Mr.CC/JX - Impossible Same reasons as CC/Kush Mr.CC/Ghost - Impossible Impossible, since I am town in this setup again. I would have no reason to lie about my green check on Ghost. Also by similar logic, I am confirmed town. Wheeeee! Since Djo is guaranteed to flip scum (as discussed above), one of ghost and I have to be town. We cannot both be scum, since Djo is scum (and there's only 1 more scum) Ghost cannot individually be scum, since I DT checked him (I have no reason to lie about this as town). Hapa cannot be individually scum, since Ghost won the elections and no one else voted him (again, ghost has no reason to lie as town) | ||
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On December 27 2012 16:29 JieXian wrote: yes but that won't confirm your alignment at all because if scum won the elections, he could have claimed the DT check. If Ghost is confirmed town, I am confirmed town as well, due to the analysis below: Also by similar logic, I am confirmed town. Wheeeee! Since Djo is guaranteed to flip scum (as discussed above), one of ghost and I have to be town. We cannot both be scum, since Djo is scum (and there's only 1 more scum) Ghost cannot individually be scum, since I DT checked him (I have no reason to lie about this as town). Hapa cannot be individually scum, since Ghost won the elections and no one else voted him (again, ghost has no reason to lie as town) | ||
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On December 27 2012 18:05 JieXian wrote: Lol you do know that it's not in kush's advantage to publicly claim it because it'll damage the credibility of djo's read and his safety, since kush had a scum read on DJo. Furthermore kush won't have the power to convince Djo to not go along with the plan, because djo was expecting to be a confirmed townie , and ghost doesn't seem to be around at all. There are hints of his suspicion about you: What the hell are you talking about? Kush would claim if he went against my plan. He didn't do so, and I'm town. | ||
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On December 27 2012 18:06 JieXian wrote: And hapa you sure did call in the blazing cops really quick on my little chat =( Why the fuck do I care if you're speaking french? | ||
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On December 28 2012 03:04 JieXian wrote: you're saying if kush claims you're not town? If kush claims that he didn't follow my plan, than I'm not confirmed town. | ||
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It doesn't matter who voted for ghost. What matters is that if Djo actually voted for Mr.CC, Mr.CC would have won. Mr.CC did not win. Mr. CC can't be lying about his check, because ghost claimed he won (and you think ghost is confirmed town). Unless you think ghost is lying as town, then Djo is scum. | ||
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Unless of course Djo royally fucked things up, but this is not the case: On December 25 2012 02:28 Djodref wrote: So, as a reminder, I've sent my PM to Blazinghand the 24th of December at 15:46. I cast my Wichtcraft Vote for Cheese ^^ On December 25 2012 02:34 Hapahauli wrote: Sent at 15:59 on my end. Ghost promised to sheep me, so he should be complying. Kush and JX should comply, but I doubt they have witchcraft votes D= | ||
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Also, how do you explain djo going after JX all game if JX is scum? | ||
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On December 28 2012 06:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: But I'm lazy. So kush / JX... Prove each other is the last scum. Go. Well on voting actions, you have the highest chance to flip scum. Laziness really isn't an option now. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 28 2012 06:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Just do the same voting thing we did yesterday for tomorrow. We're lynching Djo in the meantime. That means we can just confirm one of the three of us town. I'm the logical choice to confirm since I look scummiest by association. Now I have to filter dive, eh? Both Kush or JX could be it at this point, nothing makes sense. That doesn't mean you get a free lazy pass today buddy. | ||
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On December 28 2012 07:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Lol ##Vote: Djodref I'll witchcraft vote for Ghost. No other townies vote (Hapa, you can vote someone for good measure if you'd like) I'll come up with a plan. Until then, don't vote quite yet. | ||
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Day 5 (Today), we're lynching Djodref. We'll be down to 5 players tonight, and we'll be able to confirm one player (probably Mr.CC). If CC checks as town (worst-case scenario), we'll have 2 unconfirmed players left (JieXian, Kush). During the night cycle, scum are forced to take a shot. Otherwise, we'll have 5 players on day 6 (1 mislynch availible), and we'll just lynch into both unconfirmed townies for the victory. So during Night 5, whoever wins witchcraft can simply roleblock one of kush/JX, and claim who they RB'd a minute before the deadline. If no death happens, we found scum. If death happens, the other player (not blocked) is scum. This is solved. So whoever's scum, please resign. K thx bai. | ||
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Hapahauli
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1) Mr.CC votes for Hapa in Witchcraft elections. Hapahauli votes for ghost_403 (insurance vote). If ghost wins, Mr.CC is confirmed scum, GG. If Hapa wins elections, proceed to #2. 2) Hapa roleblocks JieXian. If no kill occurs, we simply lynch JX, then Kush to win (5 players left, 2 lynches left, 2 unconfirmed players). If a kill occurs, kushm4sta is scum. 3) Lynch kush on D6. GG. | ||
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Hapahauli
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We cannot both be scum, since Djo is scum (and there's only 1 more scum) Ghost cannot individually be scum, since then I would be town and I DT checked him (I have no reason to lie about this as town). I cannot be individually scum, since Ghost won the elections and no one else but myself voted him (again, ghost has no reason to lie as town). | ||
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On December 28 2012 10:55 kushm4sta wrote: yay we won in the shittiest possibly way It's certainly anti-climactic, but scum could have prevented this if they didn't use both of their vigi shots Day 1. They fucked up, and these are the consequences. | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:00 kushm4sta wrote: and how the fuck was scum supposed to forsee this happening By thinking about the mechanics. Anywho, we can save that for the post-game. I take it you're town then? | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:01 kushm4sta wrote: how the fuck was scum supposed to realize that scum had to save both silver bullets All they needed to save was one. They probably took two shots and didn't think about the consequences. Also, the only reason we're winning in this manner is because scum's NK was blocked two nights running. | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:02 kushm4sta wrote: I'M SCUM guys gg Ahhhhh the double-bus. Well played kush. | ||
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Man that hurts kush | ||
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I would have liked to think that I would have found you as the last scum, but given my play this game, I probably would have found a way to lynch JieXian anyway =P Well atleast I acknowledged a double-bus as a possibility. Djo spamming your "scumslips" was fucking excellent though. Like that was awesome. | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:22 Keirathi wrote: While they were busy being mad at each other in scum QT, I was reading their posts like "Damn, they've distanced themselves so hard that even if one gets lynched, there's no way the other does." It was really, really good play. Also Hapa: you called kush town day 1 because he wasn't being whiny/angry. Its easy not to be whiny/angry when you have nothing to be mad about  He does those things when he's under pressure, not when things are smooth sailing. He adjusted his meta more than I realized. He came out with more anger in some of his previous scumgames, but perhaps they were too dated for me to rely on. Also, when I pressured him in the early-game/mid-game for lurking, he handled it much better than I expected him to. All and all, my expectations are now much adjusted. A little too overly-reliant on meta with him. | ||
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Also Kush, who would you have NK'd given the opportunity? | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:33 Dandel Ion wrote: Cause you were really damn scummy. Too long ago for me to be able to explain why though. Guess you said things and such. Also, I lol'd when I read this in the scum qt: Like how though? I was the most active player in the thread throughout the game. I was basically the reason the town wasn't a lurk-fest. | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:36 gonzaw wrote: To be honest when cheesecake said the "If Eywa is scum we lynch Hapa"....like I instantly thought "He can't be serious and post that if he's scum" so I kind of (very slightly) thought he was town because of that (of course with the plan talk I forgot about that later >_> ) I've seen scum do that before. My scumbuddy in Newbie XXI got lynched for "slipping" in the same way. | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 28 2012 11:39 kushm4sta wrote: I shouldnt have conceded. jx voting for ghost compeltly invalidated the check on djodref Nah. Still had to get around the fact that Mr.CC didn't win the elections. | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Oh hell, you guys were gonna shoot me? Dat hapa jailkeep. Dat JK for the completely wrong reasons >> | ||
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On December 28 2012 11:52 kushm4sta wrote: you guys dont realize it but jx actually won this game for you. so you were going to elect no one as witch, since no one had the majority vote. what you actually wanted was to abstain instead of vote no one. djo and I were counting on no one getting witchcraft. but jx made fixed that problem and fooled me into thinking the no one/abstain thijg didn't work No, someone would have won anyway. In the event of a tie, the person who got voted first wins witchcraft. BH mentioned it somewhere in-thread. | ||
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Mafia Play The Djo/Kush situation should illustrate just how potentially devastating independently minded scumplayers can be. The bus was very convincing and quite a nice play (even if somewhat "unintentional"). Unfortunately, I think it was too extreme, and a bit too fancy for the situation. For one, scum were screwed if Djo actually ended up getting lynched on Day 3. Secondly, fancy play was just not needed given this roster of players. Such busses are great for throwing off a star-studded roster of veteran townies, and not a relatively inexperienced lineup. If scum just killed me off early, mafia could have probably pushed mislynches without much effort. Good scum-play isn't always fancy, and the simplest/straightforward plays are often effective and best. Regarding my Play Ugh. Well I'm still pretty angry about how I played this game, but it was educational in a way. I was looking for excuses to think people were town rather than finding scum. In addition, I pretty much lynched Eywa because I was pissed at him rather than actually thinking he was scum. Anyway, as far as personal "lessons" go for future iterations of "town-Hapa" 1) Stop spamming outside of Day 1. 2) Stop defending other players if I'm not 99% sure they're town. 3) Do not talk to idiot townies (or just give less of a shit). The Setup The setup was quite ingenious, and I think preventing voting-abstentions will fix a lot of the "using votes as DT checks" problem. There will be situations where you can use the voting system to confirm a townie, but it'll be much more situational (and require far more town coordination). Overall, I thought scum played the better game, and scum could have won if not for some excessively fancy play and forgetting the N4 NK. Town scrapped it's way out through setup abuse, which I don't mind, but leaves me with a sour taste. Though those are the games you learn from the most. | ||
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So basically Scrying is the default check, and Blaspheme is the "proof-read" check. | ||
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Anyway, I'd actually support it being a global scum ability rather than tied to an individual player. It seems very key to scum surviving in the game. Or perhaps it could be toned down from an "any-time" thing to being "tagged" on the other 1-shot scum actions (RB, Mason, etc). | ||
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Hapahauli
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On December 29 2012 08:11 DoYouHas wrote: I think you should take out or alter the mason option. I can't see how you can balance it. This too. Mason seems remarkably underpowered compared to the other options. Honestly I don't think I'd ever use mason chat over something like a DT check. On December 29 2012 08:12 Djodref wrote: @ Hapa It was not fancy play, it was just Kush and me being stupid and really pissed off at each other. I really think that Cheese was the mislynch we should have pushed D2, and there was good potential for it. Did you realize that people had to abstain and not vote for ”nobody” so your plan could work properly ? If I have to look back at this game, I would say it's not possible to win at scum if you don't play as a team. Oh eh. Details details =P | ||
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Hapahauli
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I'm not sure why you want the "mason" ability in the game so bad. I think it's really flawed, and probably unfixable in this setup: 1) There's really no incentive to use a mason chat over a DT check. Both serve the same purpose, and a DT check is a more accurate scum-hunting option for 90% of the player-base. 2) There are huge incentives against using mason chat on scumreads! Especially early in the game (before witchhunter shots are used), why on earth would you ever mason chat your scumread? You risk outing yourself for a potential vigi shot. @ Djo On December 29 2012 09:04 Djodref wrote: I don't know about Hapa. It kept JieXian really focused on the fact that he was still alive. I think it could have won us the game if the CC kill would have gone through. And for my attitude, I was really exhausted and about to take my plane when kush finally posted his case against me ^^ Also I got less involved cause I'm in France now. I made a similar mistake in Newbie XXI (I was scum). A player (JingleHell) led a mislynch and generally seemed off of our trail. While he was the most active player in the game, I decided not to shoot him because I felt he was helping our cause. The next day, he led a last-minute lynch on my scumbuddy, and we shot him immediately. With the most active town-player in the game gone, it was so easy to push mislynches left and right. You should consider using NK's on active and/or veteran players in the future. One of scum's objectives is to have a safe platform to push their goals. Getting rid of obstructive townies is always a great thing for scum. Also, if you shoot all the active players early-on, you're usually left with a lurkish, easily manipulated town in the later stages of the game. | ||
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