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[QUOTE]On December 05 2012 01:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
hmm.
I think he is pushing a scum agenda by implying that he wants to lynch a lurker which more often then not, are town so preparing for a mislynch. Then the way he votes yamato allows him to back out easily if he sees that its not gaining any support, again scum motivation because they dont want to be caught in contridictions and 180s[/QUOTE]
Opinion on lurker lynching is not alignment indicative. Lurkers can be scum, and can be town.
He didn't vote for Yamato. You don't have to back down from a FoS.
Your reasoning isn't that good for a vote on Kickstart, Imo.
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Not really, he FoS'd you - so what?
The only thing I see weird is that he kept saying "omg don't talk about policy lynching"
Yes, consider it a soft-defense.
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I'm criticizing Oats because the FoS wasn't alignment indicative. It could have easily come from either scum or town. I don't see how Kick is trying to push a scum agenda with it.
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I was more concerned about the part where Oats said he was scummy because of wanting to lynch a lurker. That's just not a valid point.
Either way, not really worth talking about.
I want syl and jiod to get in here. Still confused as fuck by axle's posting style.
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On December 05 2012 02:34 yamato77 wrote:
No, it is worth talking about because you have yet to adequately explain yourself.
Oats is voting for Kick to make him explain his shoddy reasoning behind throwing suspicion on me, something I agree with. Then you attack Oats based largely on the fact that you don't like the vote. Why would town CC attack Oats for pressuring kick unless he didn't agree with this logic?
Stop trying to change the subject.
Where was I attacking Oats? I just said I didn't like that line of reasoning.
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On December 05 2012 02:50 yamato77 wrote:
Stop dodging my question. If you don't agree with Oats' vote, as you claim, you need a better reason than your nitpick of kick's posting not being alignment indicative. It's a pressure play. Of course you can't indicate alignment from so little but you have to do something to draw more information out.
That's what questions are for. You get the information, then make a case, then vote. Questions are pressure. I'm only saying I didn't like the vote because the reasons are weak. I don't agree with Oat's logic because he just said that the vote was bad, that lurker lynching is a scum trait, and that he was looking for town support (which I can see). The first two points aren't "scummy" as he claims, the last point kind of is but it could go either way.
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*Sigh*
This is a pointless discussion.
The points Oats gives for voting are not good. The fact that he did vote for him is fine as a pressure play. I just pointed out that some of the points weren't that valid if he truly though Kickstart was scum.
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On December 05 2012 03:17 yamato77 wrote:
Yes, I know all that and I don't see the point in doing it if you are town. You are looking for scum, not criticising other players for their arguments. You admitted that kick could be seen as suspicious so why wouldn't you just let kick respond to Oats instead of harping on him pointlessly?
I do, however, see the scum motivation. Scum CC would see this as an opportunity to look like he's putting pressure on people while drawing little real attention to himself because he never offers his own opinion. It is pulling teeth to get you to give any information, why?
If you are town you would cooperate.
Pulling teeth? You don't want any information from me, just this useless fluff about why I thought Oat's reasons for the vote were invalid which I already gave you.
If I was town I would cooperate... cooperate with what? I put my opinion out there, and you're turning it into something that's not cooperating with town functionality. It's my opinion and I put it out there - deal with it.
So I should just sit back and agree that Kickstart is scummy because of these reasons? Does that really help town functionality? Sorry, I don't think he is that scummy. I'm not cooperating with the popular idea because I don't see a reason to. Cooperating with people who could be scum trying to push a mislynch, no less.
@Oats
On December 05 2012 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
No, I wasnt providing advice on how he could look more town,
I was giving a suggestion on more effective/accurate ways to win the game as town.
If he is scum, it doesnt matter.
I am concerned that he is scum. HOWEVER, it doesnt really affect much BECAUSE if you know that someone is scum, you just ignore them.
Currently I have a slight town read on yamato, however he seems to be acting differently as opposed to last game. Probably because he wants to improve like me, but you never know.
30 minutes later...
On December 05 2012 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:Im leaning town on CC, he seems his normal logical self. Im null on Axle, his questions are odd but maybe thats just his playstyle. Im leaning slightly scum on yamato and kickstart Kickstart goes into a discussion on whether lynching lurkers is good which is unnecessary at the start of the game because who knows, we might not have lurkers. Then he jokes around for a while and suddenly FoS yamato on badgering Axle. Like what kind of reasoning is that? Yamato + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 23:42 yamato77 wrote:
My strategy this game is far more aggressive than it was the previous game at the beginning. If I am town, my main objective day 1, especially early, is to provoke discussion and responses. The more information I can garner from people, the stronger my reads on them can become. Up to that point, only Axle had seemed to willingly ignore me so I went after him. People that don't want to give up information are either scum or blue, because they both have something to hide. I suppose I assumed that Axle was doing this intentionally but it seems like he was ignoring me rather absentmindedly.
What my focus now has become is why you have started to throw suspicion around on players who are looking into people's play early. A lot of your posting this game has been about "this looks suspicious" or something of that nature. Everything can "look suspicious" from a town POV, but you feel the need to say it a lot. Why? he only questioned axle then Unvoted him for unclear reasons..
Why?
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On December 05 2012 03:22 Arnarnion wrote:
CC, do YOU have any reads on Kick? Have you seen any behavior on his part that would suggest town over scum or vice versa? You attack Oat's opinion on Kick, but what is yours?
In general, his posting seems to be a bit clunky. His stance on the discussion of policy lynching is odd, but I don't see much scum motivation for it, as it just draws attention. Same goes for his FoS of Yamato. Probably just a pressure move -- I don't much care for Yamato badgering axle myself. Pretty null so far. And again, I'm not ATTACKING Oat's opinion, I'm just pointing out that those aren't generally scum traits...
On December 05 2012 03:23 yamato77 wrote:
Also funny is that you call this discussion pointless when your criticism of Oats was even more so.
How was it pointless? I pointed out that his scumread may have been false, because those reasons weren't that good... you on the other hand are just dragging it out like it's something big.
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Yamato - You seem to think that the vote is a town-favored play. Oats could easily be scum. I just pointed out that these aren't generally scumtells. I want to point Oats, if town, in the right direction. If he can make a case against Kick that isn't reliant on his opinion of lurker lynching / that the FoS was bad, that would be fine with me.
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I don't have much of an opinion on Kick until he can come back and discuss with us some more.
You're just digging for stuff that isn't there, Yamato, and you're facerolling over me for pointing out the fallacy in an argument. Town can do that, scum can do that too. Either way, it's my opinion, and Kick has (should) respond to it ANYWAY. Attacking me for pointing it out is useless. Can we stop crapping up the thread with this discussion?
I am pretty suspect of Oats because of that read flip in such a short period of time... Town don't change their reads that quickly or mess stuff like that up. Scum have to feign reads and can screw that up very easily.
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Have to agree with Kickstart on this one. Yamato, if you are town going for that aggressive style, you aren't heading in the right direction.
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Why has the discussion stagnated so?
@Everyone
What are your opinions of Kick/Yamato/Oats, those in the spotlight? What do you guys see about others as well? Just anything, lol. Some scummer reads etc. Interested in particularly hearing from Sylencia.
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On December 05 2012 09:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
I changed my read on yamato because at that time, I had the impression that he was null to slightly town, then when I looked through yamato's filter, I found some scummy stuff.
He starts out with the introductory post then has no content otherwise.
That gives me the impression that he is asking questions to look involved and notice, he asked so many questions to axle who looked ill-equipped to answer, so its not very effective in finding scum.
Why does this seem like complete BS? In a 30 minute period, where you were reading and had posted during that timeframe, you supposedly decided to search the depths of Yamato's filter. Your answer is basically "Oh I found some scummy stuff.".. you know, that intro post and little content otherwise. You were here for all of that. So did you really change your mind on Yamato based on that? Why did you read him as town when that's the exact same information you had before? Or was you calling him slight scum just a mistype?
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Axle, I have no friggen clue what the hell you're trying to say, ever. Seems like half of the stuff in your posts are randomly red for no reason.
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Random case inc:
On December 04 2012 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
bad town play is contridictions/180s everywhere.
Scum play is subtle 180s and weird logic/ cases
Oats does this exactly
Firstly, he's Paranoid:
On December 04 2012 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
And its a fucking stupid idea to lynch me for my play last game.
Now stop discussing it.
Why so serious all of a sudden?
On December 04 2012 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
LOL I am town, what do you mean pretend?
I am getting peoples opinions of issues like policy lynch, changing of meta and that helps me to define reads on players,
If people dont talk, then I cant read them .
Feels the need to tell us that he's totes town. "What do you mean pretend I'm town... Gawsh I am actually town!"
On December 04 2012 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
I would probably tell you to l2play or something?
Scum want to cause confusion and make sure the town cant function as well.
I really dont know what I will do if I was scum :/
He's implying that he's not scum, again. Notice the wording: Idk what I WILL do if I was scum. Seems odd.
180 on mindset, 180 on a read
On December 05 2012 00:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
I automatically assume everyone is town, then get scumreads.
Actually, that's how scum think. Because they know everyone is town, they work on getting false scumreads. Town are naturally suspicious of everybody. I know Oats sure was last game. Seems like a 180 on the mindset.
On December 05 2012 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
No, I wasnt providing advice on how he could look more town,
I was giving a suggestion on more effective/accurate ways to win the game as town.
If he is scum, it doesnt matter.
I am concerned that he is scum. HOWEVER, it doesnt really affect much BECAUSE if you know that someone is scum, you just ignore them.
Currently I have a slight town read on yamato, however he seems to be acting differently as opposed to last game. Probably because he wants to improve like me, but you never know.
Wait, what does that mean? Oh, so you have a town read on Yamato...
On December 05 2012 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:Im leaning town on CC, he seems his normal logical self. Im null on Axle, his questions are odd but maybe thats just his playstyle. Im leaning slightly scum on yamato and kickstart Kickstart goes into a discussion on whether lynching lurkers is good which is unnecessary at the start of the game because who knows, we might not have lurkers. Then he jokes around for a while and suddenly FoS yamato on badgering Axle. Like what kind of reasoning is that? Yamato + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 23:42 yamato77 wrote:
My strategy this game is far more aggressive than it was the previous game at the beginning. If I am town, my main objective day 1, especially early, is to provoke discussion and responses. The more information I can garner from people, the stronger my reads on them can become. Up to that point, only Axle had seemed to willingly ignore me so I went after him. People that don't want to give up information are either scum or blue, because they both have something to hide. I suppose I assumed that Axle was doing this intentionally but it seems like he was ignoring me rather absentmindedly.
What my focus now has become is why you have started to throw suspicion around on players who are looking into people's play early. A lot of your posting this game has been about "this looks suspicious" or something of that nature. Everything can "look suspicious" from a town POV, but you feel the need to say it a lot. Why? he only questioned axle then Unvoted him for unclear reasons..
30 minutes later, a 180 on Yamato. He explains this by simply "Oh, I was going through his filter and found some scummy stuff." I don't buy it. Looks like ya dun goofed right thar sonny boy.
Then there's the Kickstart case
I won't link it, but talk about using "weird logic / cases" Basically, to sum up the case, his vote hinges on the fact that Kickstart wants to lynch lurkers (null), his FoS on Yamato (null), and that he wants to get information from other people first...
But isn't that what he's been doing this entire game? All he's done is ask little questions here or there. The first 3 pages of his filter is a bunch of useless chit chat, a few questions about reads and some answers.
Idkgotboreddecidedtomakeacaseandthenpostedit
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On December 05 2012 10:56 AxleGreaser wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2012 09:17 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 07:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Why has the discussion stagnated so?
@Everyone
What are your opinions of Kick/Yamato/Oats, those in the spotlight?
What do you guys see about others as well?
Just anything, lol. Some scummer reads etc.
Interested in particularly hearing from Sylencia.
I had an idea last night before I went to bed. But as I was still not quite awake enough I slept on it to see if today it felt wrong. It still reads feels the same as it did last night. those in the spotlight? getting the game they deserve. Interested in particularly hearing from Sylencia. I have not checked but it might be hard to do that. So anyway i will poke around the thread, for a while I was going to suggest the auspicious time of 12:00 here in oz but I want until 1.00 here in oz which 1:45 from this post. It would be pleasant if at that time we had some kind of quorum. Either that or if no one is here at that time I will speak to thin air just the same. real soon now i will present a case that I believe solves the game it solves the game in the sense that it solves it for my win condition. In my win condition everybody who is on my team wins. btw that would be you, as in anyone and everyone who read this post. ----- I have strong technical hunch that some people cant as sometimes when I open multiple windows here the game looks different. I have not tried to verify that so I could be wrong. If thats wrong or you don't understand just ignore it.
Not sure if Stephen Hawking or homeless man atm. Interested to hear this solution >.>
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Oh and Yamato: I actually think you're town.
Scum wouldn't be going full retard mode, arms flailing and all. Too risky.
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On December 05 2012 11:31 Promethelax wrote:
All votes must be in the proper format to be counted that format is:
##Vote: Promethelax
I'll lynch this guy.
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EPT
