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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On December 04 2012 23:06 Bluelightz wrote: /in IM BACK BROS :D <3 /in | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:08 slOosh wrote: Ah, starting sooner than I had hoped  Can I be switched to replacement please? I don't want to play knowing I'll probably miss the whole first cycle entirely. fuck you sloosh :< | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 07 2012 03:55 HiroPro wrote: Signups are closed. Game will start sunday evening at the given deadline (US time). No third parties - all possible roles (and their alignments) are listed. Number of mafia will not be given. No model, the setup is of my own creation. VE /out-ed or rather /sit-outed or whatever | ||
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On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible well now you've been called out, why don't you be a good boy and go ahead and explain | ||
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marvellosity
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Already gonna take some catching. | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:46 VisceraEyes wrote: @ marv What do you think about thrawn? Your first post on the subject seemed to indicate suspicion, while your second seemed to elude to a more "stupid town" read. Which is it? And why are you playing like you don't give a shit? we're like an hour in -.- pretty likely to be dumb town, especially coming from thrawn who was super-lurky as scum in Mario and I don't particularly see him pulling a stunt like that as mafia. | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 10 2012 10:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Then I guess you don't care really about him explaining his motivations considering the town read and scum meta and such...except you did ask him to explain himself. SEHR INTERESSANT! ##Vote: marvellosity please tell me you're not going to be this exceptionally dull this game. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:14 grush57 wrote: Hi guys, I'm a chocolate townie. hallo cupcake. how do you like VE so far? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:03 thrawn2112 wrote: of all the responses to my claim wbg's has rubbed me as the scummiest, updating voting thread with my vote you're an idiot, wbg's response isn't alignment indicative, it's indicative of being tired of stupid fucking idiots doing stupid fucking things. | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 10 2012 12:05 wherebugsgo wrote: If I was going to assume you were dumb, that would mean that you would pretty much be unreadable. Assuming you're not dumb, you're more likely to be scum based on your reactions and the fact that you chose to claim miller over what you said in a previous game I hosted. You basically said yourself in Acme that you were not sure how to read miller claims. The #1 thing scum try to do is to remain unreadable. It's an incredibly selfish play, unlike what town want to do: establish themselves as town and help to find scum. Fake claiming is the antithesis to that goal. why are you rationalising your policy lynch? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:16 wherebugsgo wrote: who cares, he's dumb regardless of alignment. The point is that in a previous game, he claimed that millers claiming on d1 were hard to read. So, what to make of him claiming miller d1? He wants to be hard to read. The policy lynch is killing him over lying, the actual part that makes the lynch good is the fact that he clearly wants to be unreadable. the problem is you're taking a rational viewpoint to it. I get the policy lynch but I would bet two cigars that that isn't what he clearly wants. if for example you had thrawn and i making the same actions, you'd probably read different motivations behind it, right? | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 10 2012 12:17 wherebugsgo wrote: which, to note, is exacerbated by the fact that he dodged the question about why he would claim miller half a dozen times. that's because if he explained he couldn't catch scum in his awesome trap!! | ||
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I was musing to myself and wondered whether I should announce before every game I play that I would 100% LAL. It's annoying having to lynch for scum sometimes | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote: are you actually saying that I, as scum, in a game where millers aren't aware, because of my past experience in dealing with miller claims, fakeclaimed in order to get people to be extra confused about my alignment? I don't like that you're policy voting, but whatever sometimes emotions get in the way of logic. However I just can't understand the reasoning you're using to call me scum. @marv nobody said anything about traps, my ego is not that over-inflated. and yes, this conversation is getting a little annoying On December 10 2012 12:03 thrawn2112 wrote: of all the responses to my claim wbg's has rubbed me as the scummiest, updating voting thread with my vote well? isn't that what this is saying? | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 10 2012 12:45 Adam4167 wrote: He announced in thread to be voting for Thrawn, but the vote never made it into the voting thread, then he builds a case on me around not voting on someone that I had said I wasn't sure of the alignment of. Ill be watching him closely today. as opposed to the people you won't be watching closely? ... your whole summarising comment leaves ambiguity for either dumb or scum, care to commit on which way you're actually leaning? | ||
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"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them." "I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit." I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. | ||
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On December 10 2012 23:10 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol @ Palmar's post. It's basically a cop out for not doing anything for at least the first half of day 1. We know he's here. There isn't anything to read. So why the hell should he get a free 24 hours off? he *shouldn't*, but what you wanna do about it? do you want me to vote him for it like town killed him in Death Note? i don't see a satisfactory solution | ||
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On December 10 2012 23:19 wherebugsgo wrote: I haven't read that game, but certainly this type of play isn't what I expect from Palmar as town. In general I would use "laziness" as a one-word description of his scum play. 100% agree, anyway there's not a lot to read, he got lynched (as town) because he had like one or two troll posts and did nothing else. The point is that doing nothing is not the same as doing things lazily. So basically we have to wait for him to do something and then see how he does it. | ||
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marvellosity
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I wanna hear more from debears about his pushing of Adam. And VE's vote on me is weird given he usually buddies me for at least the first 24 hours. Those are the 2 main things I picked up so far, mostly waiting for all the inactives to show their faces. | ||
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marvellosity
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Is there a reason you're asking? | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:17 debears wrote: Maybe he wants to put a clear target on your guys' backs Marv hi! On December 10 2012 21:59 marvellosity wrote: debears, I don't really get whatever your thing on Adam is. You seem to have a problem with him not immediately denouncing thrawn as scum or declaring him town. What's actually wrong with it?? It seems like you're manufacturing something out of nothing. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:22 debears wrote: @Djo/Marv Here's the passage by Adam I am talking about with the implication of thrawn being scum Notice 1) Your town play is way different 2) Your town play says you wouldn't claim 3) I don't think your scummy despite the "stark contrast" He said he wasn't calling him scum right that instant, he was questioning him to try to find out what was going on. That doesn't mean he didn't find the play scummy. Presumably the reason he's questioning him is BECAUSE his play was different from his town play. No? | ||
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On December 10 2012 23:30 Djodref wrote: @ WBG We have now 4 people that have not contributed at all since the beginning of this game (Munk-E, Z-Boson, Vivax and Tunkeg). Palmar has made clear when he would be able to start to participate which is at least better than these 4 others. I don't know all the players in this game, and I don't why/if the host would have chosen Palmar to be in the scumteam for balance reason. So I am now under the impression that you are using Palmar as an excuse to not comment on the other players in this game. What about Bluelightz ? Are you familiar with him ? Any comment you would do on his entrance in the thread ? And what about you? You casually mention BL in a question about whether he and I are considered vets too, so you seem interested in him somehow. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote: This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old. Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough. as for WBG, the more i think about it, the more I think he's more likely to be town. If he was scum, this play would either be to bus palmer if he's scum, which would be stupid and unnecessary, or to try to start a bandwagon on him if he's town, which would most likely be futile. He could be trying to appear to be an aggressive scumhunter, attacking harmless enemies though, so he seems town, but then again, aggressive scumhunting seems town. I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers. this is confusing. You think him calling Palmar scum is aggressive scumhunting, or? | ||
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marvellosity
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why am I finding it so hard to engage you in conversation on your read of Adam?? | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:42 debears wrote: But marv that seems to contrast his statement saying "if I wanted to call you scum". It's possible that it's just me interpreting what he means wrongly. But saying "i'm not calling you scum" is the same thing as "i'm not calling you scummy" imo. It's not that he questioned thrawn. It's how he did it. Saying "your town meta is different' and "town you wouldn't say this" implies that he finds thrawn scummy. Then, he says he's not calling thrawn scum. Also, marv, what do you think of this? 1) Look at my "case". 4/5 sentences is a case by me? Yeah right.... 2) He takes my post out of context. Djo asked me me a question and I responded Then, he votes me after taking my post out of context, saying I should have voted him with my "case" Yeah.....I'm sorry marv that I don't follow up my extensive, 4 sentence cases with no quotes that are a response to a question with a vote This reaction is something that I don't see a townie mindset 1) Questioning someone and mentioning twice that they're playing way different from their town play. Then, saying that you don't think they are scum (ie scummy) 2) Taking someone else's posts out of context when he mentions you 3) Voting for said person when he didn't make a "case" against you because he didn't follow up his "case" with a vote The problem as I see it is that you're doing what you're accusing Adam of doing. Adam is questioning thrawn on his millershit or whatever. But he's not calling him scum or voting him, right? On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote: @Djo The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum. His reaction is feeling very forced Now this might not be a "case" as you would call one, but then what is it? You don't like his questioning, you don't like his lack of vote, you don't like that he didn't call him scummy, you felt his reaction was forced. All this in itself implies that he is either scum or scummy (if you say the two are the same...) and yet at the time you weren't voting him either. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:50 Vivax wrote: My analysis is the end of that post. Thrawn acts as if he had some kind of plan behind his actions, and VE defending him doesn't take that into consideration, but thinks of it as a joke. Clarity, may I know why you are so disinterested in thrawns claim? You were the first to point out his mistake and never gave a fuck about it. I don't feel like I can just let this matter go. Thrawn could have talked about it as a joke, instead he acts as if he did it on purpose. He's probably just realized that he's made a big mistake, and further talking about him will harm him no matter what. So what do you conclude? It seems like you're trying to make a point with this VE stuff but I'm not quite sure what it is. | ||
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On December 11 2012 03:05 debears wrote: If it's way different from their town selves, then it's hell of a lot more likely they are scum/third party, yes. Note DP in ACME Thrawn in Mario Mini You in GSL III* I don't have too many more off the top of my head lol Disregarding DP and his funny JK claim, these aren't really applicable. These are manners of playing - lurky or not-invested or whatever you want to call it. Going "lol i'm miller" is a pretty different thing. It's wacky and it's dumb and different in such a stupid/weird way that I don't get why you'd automatically think the departure from townattitude = scum. I don't like how you can't see the difference. | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts: Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this. I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips. I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or? Hi scum Thank you for 'skimming' the thread as your first action. Thank you for also saying a whole lot of nothing. You're telling us that his style resembles Student mafia...but you could be wrong? This smacks of laziness and wanting to back up your non-point with a non-meta read. Both your 'reads' rest on fluffy/wishywashy but this is exactly what you're doing. Of all the late enterers this dude is the worst (although Z-bo's concentration on # of mafia and bugs' stuff is desperately trying to run him close  )##Vote: Tunkeg | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:10 Z-BosoN wrote: @marv thoughts on munk-E? no particular thoughts other than he's playing noobily, no opinion on which side he's batting for yet. I agree his post you quoted was contradictory but I don't know why it has to be scummy contradictory atm. More posts etc. | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:38 Vivax wrote: So I've been scratching my balls while reading the thread for the last 20 minutes, and when I saw jaybrundages posts, they started to hurt. ##Vote jaybrundage So you are okay with this post? To me it looks like you didn't study the matter enough. This explanation sucks hard. He's basically leaving the defense of himself to everybody else. He never said explicitly that he joked, he only said explicitly that he had intentions, fuck knows which. That being said, I suggest you go back and read the stuff before you make the same mistake I made with clarity. um... where the fuck in here is your justification for voting jay, other than the fact you have some obsession with touching your own genitals? | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:44 grush57 wrote: Also Adam is reminding me of his scum play. pray tell? | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:53 grush57 wrote: I remember in LVI I was on scum with Adam, and it reminds me of how he is semi-active but not really doing anything. The thing I didn't like about Adam was that I had to press him to turn his commentary into a read on debears. Other than that he's actually posted a little more already than I was expecting him to, so meh. I'm slightly something on Adam but I'm not sure what yet :p Can I interest you fine people in a scum lynch, a la Tunkeg? Is there anyone out there who actually gets good vibes from how he came into the thread? | ||
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On December 11 2012 06:19 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Marv Yeah his opening post is a humongous waste of time, but it's just one post. To which I respond: exactly. | ||
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Vivax and Z-bo are coming up behind. I don't like how Vivax only justified his vote after being asked, and his whole ball-scratching thing screams "i'm trying to make this totes casual like" in conjunction with this. | ||
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On December 11 2012 06:33 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't understand why you're trying to rally people to sheep you right now, when we're still in the first half of D1. I'm glad you started making scumreads rather than soft defending a bunch of people though. Could you expand on Zbo? As a general rule I kinda like pushing my preferred candidate, dear. Z-Bo because he came into the thread late, and then spent a few posts nitpicking at both the 80% figure and the presumed number of scum. It's an irrelevant way to enter the thread and spend your time. His posts just aren't constructive. | ||
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Couple of things: I don't agree that vivax's thought on scum fakeclaiming miller is more likely to be a town mistake, it's not that important though so i'll only post more about it if it's really necessary I still don't particularly want to lynch jay right now, he could be scum but he could also be flailing town I need to rethink Adam/debears, Palmar talked about it a bunch, and I came away from it thinking I had the wrong end of the stick. Now to read le thread. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:48 debears wrote: Marvy baby. Thoughts on my recent posts on adam? I like it. I have very little else to add other than I agree that it makes no sense that he was talking to you that way when you were his scumread. I'd understand it more if this was the start of the interactions, but it's been going on a while. Tunkeg has done jack shit to make me think he's town which I love to lynch for on Day 1, but Adam has betrayed a scum mentality right there. ##Unvote ##Vote: Adamsomenumbers | ||
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also debears, Clarity is right. Your townread on Palmar is/was hilariously ludicrous. | ||
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On December 11 2012 11:30 debears wrote: I know marv. All in good fun :D well... alright. if you weren't serious then don't do it, because it wastes a whole bunch of thread where clarity rightly calls you a tool. If you were serious, then you are a tool. | ||
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The post debears highlighted is out of place with the rest of Adam's filter. He was aggressive both before and after that post, but in that particular post he was practically conciliatory. Why? | ||
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Seriously though, for Tunkeg it's the absence of towniness, for Adam it's the presence of a scum mindset (oops! treated you as town there for a minute... back to shouting at you again!) | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 11 2012 12:10 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't really understand adam's "scumslip" that debears pointed out. He was asked to clarify his read on debears so at the time he answered leaning scum. Why does everyone find it weird that when directly asked to make it more clear what his read is on debears he answers slightly scummy, and then quite a bit later explains that when he said "I'll call you scum when I think you're scum", which in my head means he's not confident in debears being scum.... hence the leaning part, no? Am I missing something? Unless I completely forgot what I read in the thread, the bolded was referring to Adam talking about thrawn, which is nothing to do with anything. | ||
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On December 11 2012 12:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Ehhh... re-reading.... Okay, so the post in question where adam treats debears as town is this: You're right, it's about thrawn my bad. But I still don't get it. If jay walked in and interpreted my post wrong I would clarify as well, why is it necessarily a scum mindset? Does his attitude in that post not seem out of sync with his other posts? | ||
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On December 11 2012 12:34 Clarity_nl wrote: Eh, sure it's a bit milder than his other posts, but note how his aggression is always reactionary to aggression...... I dunno, I just don't see how it's a scum thing. Saying he forgot who he was pressuring is like saying BH forgot who his mason partner was, so it was just him being... nicer than his other posts? Adam might be scum but I don't see how that "scumslip" suddenly condemns him, and like Thrawn am rather confused you "dropped" (yes I realize you said you didn't drop it) your vote on Tunkeg. What are you saying, that scum are incapable of misunderstanding anything? so i'm still awake. how are the two remotely similar? stop talking nonsense. BH was just a total moron for a while. Would you suggest that's what's going on here?? | ||
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Taking Adam out, do you prefer Jay over Tunkeg or vice versa? | ||
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How are you 'almost certain' Djo isn't scum? | ||
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Is there something you've seen from Tunkeg that suggests to you he is town? | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:42 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't think we can necessarily credit Palmar with the push on Adam, given that everyone so far in the game has found him scummy, but I agree with you. I like both pushes but I disagree with Palmar's other reads, which almost certainly means something is off. I'm curious, though. If you had to name 4 scum right now, who would you name? 4 is a pretty irritating number. Adam/Tunkeg/VE... Djodref?/BL? VE precisely because he's null. BL because ??? and I've seen Djo play an active scumgame (Looney lynching) so I don't grab the same towntells as you have from his play, plus I get the feeling the things he posts are a bit off timing-wise with the rest of the thread. Z-Bo was almost on there, but I kinda like his Djo case and how he sounded in his posts after. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:49 Clarity_nl wrote: I admit this has been a nagging doubt all game for me. The "wrong" people are on the wagon I started. Although I had the same feeling with Sandroba in Chrono and he flipped red just fine. marv could you explain why jay is such an easy mislynch? Did you mean in the context of this game? Because the way you said it you made it sound like that's his meta. I presume you mean bugs, I never said jay was an easy mislynch | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:55 Vivax wrote: I think you have to PM the host for questions, clarity. Non-standard rules. Marv, why do you have a townread on jay? I don't particularly have a townread, I just don't have a scumread. I don't particularly see why what he's done so far can't have come from either alignment. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:58 Adam4167 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 19:12 Palmar wrote: I don't understand what that "scumslip" is either. I think I explained in the video why I don't like Adam's first post: Basically, it's a legit question, but it's very easy to just click on someone's profile, go to posts and find recent games. Maybe Adam's just being lazy, but this post reeks of him trying to convey to the thread that he's going to be actively looking at people. Again, I'm working on the assumption Adam isn't dumb. It's pretty clear what thrawn is doing, and trying to wonder about it is dumb and pointless. Adam is lingering way too much on a silly stunt pulled by a random person, and asking all the wrong questions. Again, he's coming on with this idea that thrawn's actions require extensive analysis, it's very clear (to me at least) what thrawn is doing, and either it means he's scum and fucked up, or he's town and has a terrible plan-idea-thing. I concluded the latter to be the case, but adam seems really confused by something so elementary. Not putting shit in the voting thread is not scummy at all, and hardly worth talking about. I don't know why Adam keeps obsessing about irrelevant things this game. Also "I'll be watching him closely today." made me laugh. It's just how he's saying it that gets my lynchfinger all twitchy. --- In addition to this Adam calls debears out for not voting him, which is yet another thing I find fairly irrelevant, the action of voting adds or relieves no pressure at all in this game, it's the mind behind it that does. Everything Adam has done and said this game feels careful, calculated and often irrelevant and inconclusive. He should be the lynch for today. I've already defended mostly this same case from dabears, so I'm not going to go over it all again. How is playing carefully and calculated alignment indicative at all? You may have found my line of questioning irrelevant, but I didn't, hence why I did it. Vivax, can you expand on your thoughts on VE and Thrawn and why did you drop pursuit of them so suddenly? What did you hope to gain? Or, what did you gain and how? What would have been the sequence of events/responses that would have led you to a scumread on thrawn? | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:20 Palmar wrote: Shoot them. Honestly it's the only good way to deal with people trying to lose. But honestly, there's plenty of targets to go after right now. @Marv, do you really think bugsface is town? I have no idea what bugs is. On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote: Well you did do dumb shit twice now a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it. b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute. So don't act all surprised. These things are not scummy things (from bugs at least). | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote: alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant. Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game) | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:49 Djodref wrote: And I was having a crazy idea that I would like to share with everybody... Let's say that we cannot get a consensus on who to lynch among jay, adam and tunkeg. Would anyone mind to policy lynch grush following a "Lynch the Trolls" policy ? No, we're not doing that, that's stupid. Answer me something Djo - why is playing emotionally rather than rationally a scum trait? | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote: generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going?  | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:08 wherebugsgo wrote: Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so no, I don't agree with that. Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch. | ||
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Fucked that one up Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so is what I meant to say | ||
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Z-Bo, what's your opinion then between Tunkeg and Djodref? Which is more likely to be scum now if you think it's unlikely it's a bus? I don't see you write anything at all on Adam, what's your read on him? | ||
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On December 12 2012 02:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Why do you think he's a better lynch than tunkeg? i've talked about both a reasonable amount, read my filter. check my interaction with bugs today, for example. Reading is awesome. | ||
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we gots a majority yet? | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm starting to think marv scum. Marvy baby you scum? sure, why not. are you mentally demented? | ||
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On December 12 2012 05:12 Vivax wrote: MARV, do you have any other reason to vote Adam aside from sheeping Debears? You mostly talk about everyone else but have your vote on Adam. What do you think of Tunkegs presumed last post? Tunkeg's post makes it more likely he's town, partly because he showed non-routine thinking with bugs, and partly because i've seen him martyr like this as town before. I'm pretty happy with everything Palmar has had to say about Adam and a couple of the things that debears has said. Mostly Adam has been useless and I'm not used to him being habitually useless as town. Actually all this is in my filter if you care to read. This is your one indulgence. | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:31 thrawn2112 wrote: any thoughts on the conversation between tunkeg and wbg? which part, where? if you're asking me a dumb question i'm gonna be pissed off. | ||
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that was a dumb question. it's not even relevant to what's going on right now. The only thing it's going to be relevant for is assessing bugs' play and pushes after day 1. | ||
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VE, I don't know what you're smoking, those reads are unemotional as shit. | ||
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BL gonna be BL. He does all of that shit all the time. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:19 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you mean unemotional? What does that have to do with anything? Alright, what do you like and why? What gives you le town vibes from those reads? | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs doesn't fucking care dude - if he did, he'd be in here trying to swing a Tunkeg lynch. I share his view on Bugs, I share his view on Jay, along with Clarity's case, I'm coming around on Bluelightz too. I don't like that he has you at auto-town, but that's pretty much the ONLY thing I even close to disagree with in that whole post. I love the WHOLE THING marv. But the right play is lynching him....right? There's very little of substance in the whole shitting post. Why are you coming round on BL?? bugs is looking pretty shady at this point and that's the only thing i could say i 'liked'. Most of it is summarising | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:26 thrawn2112 wrote: djodref, jay is not the counter wagon you are looking for jay is not the counterwagon i'm looking for o.o | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote: Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch. ##VOTE Adam4167 lol yes, i'm sure you're so 'worried'. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Even with a crumb I don't buy it, actually. The timing is scummy as shit. this, it's a desperation play | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm sorry Adam, I thought you never crumbed, now you're changing your story to "why would I crumb now?!?!" Let me answer you, Adam, the earlier you make a crumb the more legitimate. adam is scum but your whole argument is retarded no-one crumbs vigi, vigis fucking shoot people and say they did. | ||
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there's a whole lotta dumb goin around this evening | ||
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brilliant | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:43 Palmar wrote: bitch please i request that you video yourself saying that for my pleasure | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Something I missed? Cause I would definitely not mind killing him check out his absence + vote | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote: but are you scum? so now it seems natural that among thrawn, boson, and djodref, each of them should be expecting to find at least 1 scum between the other two..... unless any of them think that all the scum were bussing adam, which thrawn doesn't I'd say the best place to look right now is the reluctant joiners when there was no other options than the people who didn't vote for him in the end. | ||
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debears: maybe. bugs is bugs and he made a valid point on VE but between them I'd guess only one is scum and that's a whole project in itself >.< I highly doubt Clarity is mafia. | ||
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On December 12 2012 11:32 Djodref wrote: No, I'm not scum. Are you high ? Why do you speak of yourself as a third person ? I'm still leaning town on you. It's natural for townies to feel unsecure about the lynch target (they don't know for sure that it is the right target or not). I would lean town on Z-Bo for the moment, but I would need to revise this read is he spends all his time tunneling me. this is a very passive-aggressive way of trying to get someone to stop attacking you. hmm. | ||
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On December 12 2012 21:26 Bluelightz wrote: Personally yes I am. His obsession with supposed chance on you seems to me like an easy reason to lynch someone. Hi BL. Is this really the main reason you'd be down for killing bugs? Also: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 21:34 Djodref wrote: @ thrawn I didn't know what the fuck you were trying to do at first when you said "not explaining why I did this at all". At first, I was expecting you to simply admit that you wanted to spark discussing with this obvious fakeclaim but I didn't understand why you went into that "not explaining anything at all mode". I pressure voted you because I was still not so sure I had made the right choice at that time (i.e. town move or lying scum) and I wanted you to explain yourself for the following reasons:
Then, I thought about the comment you made in the Looney Game... This is the kinda post I was talking about off-timing with the thread. | ||
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On December 12 2012 17:51 thrawn2112 wrote: I pretty much agree exactly with your town list except for one or two others I might ass to it. I disagree with the scum read on bl. You say his play looks like a buss.. I think it looks like he was sheeping palmar. He mentions palmer again when he votes. I also think the timing of his vote looks too early to be a buss. At the time he did it I was still pretty uncertain about who was actually going to be lynched and that's not a good time to buss if you don't need to. How would you expect a bus to look? | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:31 Palmar wrote: hey marv buddy, you wanna kill bugs? you're gonna have to bear with me, i need to check on some of the interactions you and him had on Day 1. There came a point where I thought you were pretty clearly town so I wanna see when he was doubting you. | ||
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bugs feels pretty easy at the moment, lots of people have given him a scumread with only maybe a sentence or two of explanation. so colour me purple. | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:45 Palmar wrote: Hell, as I explained in the video he made a very strange post that implied he knew your alignment, I can dig the interaction up if you don't remember that. no, I remember it because I had the same thoughts and then chuckled to myself that you commented on the same thing. Anyway your post just above reminded me from something from a previous game, I'm gonna go dig it up. | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote: no, I remember it because I had the same thoughts and then chuckled to myself that you commented on the same thing. Anyway your post just above reminded me from something from a previous game, I'm gonna go dig it up. stupid me not finishing my thought - but at that point it didn't necessarily mean he couldn't be town reading me as town either. | ||
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On December 12 2012 22:44 Palmar wrote: It's blatantly obvious, did you even read his big post "adam is my number 2 read BUT UNDER THE RUG WITH THAT, LET'S KILL TUNKEG". You're right of course. #2s are meaningless in reality. Here's what this post of yours reminded me of: On February 28 2012 07:33 kitaman27 wrote: 5.) wherebugsgo: lol you seriously didn't roll mafia yet again did you? First BH claims scum and now this? "gosh darnnit, I'd really love to vote for you RoL, but all these townies are just so easy to push" There's another interaction I don't particularly like: On December 12 2012 00:08 wherebugsgo wrote: no, I don't agree with that. Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch. So here I provide him with an example of Adam catching scum like a boss in WLIIA, and then On December 12 2012 00:20 wherebugsgo wrote: At the very least Adam has some sort of scumread. Tunkeg doesn't even have that. Basically in the first post bugs is saying "if you're right about Adam being useful, he's a better lynch". I provide an example of him being useful, which is then ignored with the deflection bolded there. Was I not right then?? Or?? Did he look? | ||
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On December 12 2012 23:04 Palmar wrote: I'm not sure what you're doing marv, convincing yourself we need to kill Bugs tomorrow? Cause that's exactly what I want to do. I agree with your points btw. pretty much dear. | ||
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On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote: If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3? we'll kill whoever is scummiest day by day, do some thinking for yourself for god's sakes. | ||
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On December 13 2012 00:26 Tunkeg wrote: You do know chances are high that Palmar gets killed tonight right? Any jailkeeper not protecting him is probably retarded. If Palmar do die we won't get his reads, why do you have a problem with me wanting to know who Palmar would lynch next? we know who he would lynch next. I'm happy with palmar giving his reads (duh) but asking who we should lynch on a particular day over 3 days away is just odd, to say the least. | ||
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On December 13 2012 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, what if Bugs is town and scum were going to shoot Bugs overnight, but in comes the cowboy!! That's a big hypothetical obviously, at this point I agree that Bugs is probably scum. But you see what I'm saying. Also, you two being all buddy buddy without me hurts my feelings. Maybe I'll just be buddy buddy with Hapa instead! HI HAPA! WELCOME TO THE GAME! I THINK YOU'RE WAAAAAAY BETTER THAN MARV AND PALMAR! AND SOOOO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE TOO! actually i have no idea what you're saying. but carry on. | ||
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On December 13 2012 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote: marv since you're around what do you think of BL's response to my case? well it's not really a response at all, is it. Or, it's a Bluelightz response. I don't know that I wouldn't expect that from EITHER a town or a scum BL. BL's sitting on the scummier side for me right now just through elimination. | ||
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On December 13 2012 02:23 Clarity_nl wrote: nvm, reading GSL open II now. Rock Band too | ||
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On December 13 2012 02:15 Vivax wrote: I've just read until page 49 before posting this, I just wanted to stay THANK YOU for posting a case against me at night, Z-Boson. Thank you sincerely. Yours faithfully, Vivax Yes, him posting at night is awful. You and Z-Boson are prime night-kill targets after all. | ||
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also, could you tell me when or if at all during Day 1 you got a townread on Palmar? | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:59 wherebugsgo wrote: I think VE is scum too. The most significant part of this post is the last line. Note how VE never comments on Adam in his posts except to say that he'd rather vote jay than Adam. The entire time, he's trying to derail. I recall calling out one of his posts as a derail, too. In addition he votes Adam without ever commenting on him. I find that especially strange given that town VE will comment on literally anything. He also seems concerned with my interactions with marv and finds marv scummy, which is either him just being dumb or trying to discredit him. No reason to find marv scummy ATM, so why would he say that? Anyway, I was unsure of VE before but the adam connection is fairly strong IMO. What would you say the difference was between VE's Adam interactions (not mentioning him, finally voting him) and yours - constantly saying he was your 2nd read but sticking on Tunkeg all the way through? | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:02 wherebugsgo wrote: Basically in the first post bugs is saying "if you're right about Adam being useful, he's a better lynch". I provide an example of him being useful, which is then ignored with the deflection bolded there. Was I not right then?? Or?? Did he look? I didn't have the time to look at what you linked, given that I was going to bed. I'm sure as hell not going to trust someone else on some assertion without checking it out myself. I've learned that after trusting other people's shitty meta reads. (and I encourage everyone else to do the same) My response about Adam having a scumread was just my opinion on the situation, it wasn't actually a direct response to what you linked. I was just clarifying one of my doubts.[/QUOTE] Given you admitted that if Adam was in fact generally more useful than Tunkeg he'd be a better lynch, don't you think it would have been a good idea to check for yourself? what the fuck is that?? | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:19 Z-BosoN wrote: @Clarity Regarding your BL case. I don't really think it was a bus from him. I feel scum would rather give reasons and over-explain in his situation rather than just saying "He's gonna get lynched anyway". It is suspicious how he posted a list then went Awol for a pretty long time though. I'm not familiar with his meta to say if that's common for him, but I don't view bl as scummy. What? He's suspicious for making a list and going AWOL, but you don't view him as scummy? Is this really purely based on the fact he voted Adam? | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:31 Clarity_nl wrote: I see you are more skillful with ms paint than marv. hey now, that wasn't called for | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:33 Z-BosoN wrote: ...Didn't I just say that I don't feel it was a bus from him? Hmm.. it seems I did. With regards to his lurkiness, and since he's a vet, I'm not gonna make that call. you don't wanna make the call that he's scummy, but he is 'suspicious' in your words. What would make him scummy to you? | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote: What kinda question is this? He'll be scummy when I see scum mentality from him. You have played with him before, right? Do you think he's scum? Do you think he bussed Adam? I'm just curious that you call him suspicious, but you won't call him scummy. What is suspicious if not scummy? Why call someone suspicious then? My views on BL are well documented enough. | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:49 Palmar wrote: No, I think you're more likely to be scum than him. lol really? | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:50 Palmar wrote: yeah of course. why of course? | ||
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Clarity isn't really known for being right | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:00 debears wrote: I agree with palmar on clarity for now I presume you're still going to give us the elaboration that you at least hinted at around lynch time? | ||
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Pretty sure Clarity is telling the truth anyways. Even him admonishing debears for lynching scum is what he did last game as town. | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:28 debears wrote: If palmar gets nked, and he is town. Then my read was epic. If not, we will see no, the read was retarded, whether you're right or not | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:39 Vivax wrote: Nevermind that huge wall of text, I just thought page 65 was looking a little empty. I promise to read it if you capitalise it properly | ||
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I got roleblocked so I'm guessing bugs jailed me. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:36 Tunkeg wrote: So WBG was a jk this game. So my entire scum or stupid analysis on him was wrong. He turened out to be just stupid. Also anyone doubting clarity's claim is stupid. There is no reason at all for a scum clarity to claim such a hit. He had alot of towncred allready, a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar. Scum don't have a vig, as they would have taken out Palmar with it, doublestacking. Or perhaps some other vet they view as dangerous. With no vig they went for the best safe option, taking out someone who by pushing Adam early was looking very townie, and who wasn't likely to be protected. Reading through the thread at the moment. But I'd love to lynch this guy for his fucking attitude alone. Fuck me. Is there a name for a policy to lynch players who seriously piss you off? Also, on a more serious note, why does Tunkeg never mention me, ever? Not even in his martrying reads post... it's like I'm not even there, which is ridiculous. | ||
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On December 13 2012 20:28 Palmar wrote: I'm just going to work backwards. List the people I don't want to lynch and why, then try to get a lynch into the remaining players. Players I don't think we should consider lynching Palmar: because I'm towny as fuck Clarity: he was active, critical and clearly reading the thread on day 1. He shot bugs, which seems like an unlikely mafia shot. I think he gets a pass for a while Marv: second guy on the Adam wagon, even if I'd like him to actually do something more, I don't think we can afford to lynch him just yet. Not to mention Bugs also had a town read on him. thrawn: his day 1 actions just don't make sense if he's scum. I need to look better into what he did later. ------ This leaves Tunkeg, Z-Bos, Hap, Vivax, VE, Djdrof, BL, grush and Jay This is where it gets kinda shady, there's probably at least 2, if not 3 mafia in this group. Bugs was pretty adamant that Jay is town. As I explained in my day 1 reads, while I thought at the time he was more scummy than Tunk, I still didn't think Jay was actually scum, even if clarity's case had some points in it. Bugs called Jay "the easiest mislynch in history of TL Mafia". I think I'm willing to take Jay from the pool of potential candidates. That leaves 8. I'm not quite sure whom to eliminate next from the race. I'm thinking maybe one of Hapa, grush or Z-bos. But I cannot know which one, or if I even want to take one of them out. Please, comment on this approach and help me figure things out. I wouldn't take Hapa out, mostly because of how Munk-E behaved and the respect I have for his play in general (day 1 hilarity in Mario not withstanding) I think Vivax is on the townside for his funny timings diagram, plus he's all over the place, confrontational, and it's hard to even guess at scum agenda in his posts. Z-Bo and grush I'm somewhat town on, although I don't particularly want to explain in grush's case | ||
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Hapa? I think was speculating on night actions. We get hit notifications in this game, and I didn't get one. So I was jailed but not hit. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I was not roleblocked and took no hits. Bugs flipping town is obviously a shock, but the good news is that we weren't left with nothing overnight. Remember when Adam claimed Vigilante? Pssssttt....there's emphasis in there. "...tonight." Adam's claim heavily implies the existence of a Scum Vigilante. That being said. This post is extremely suspicious to me for a couple of reasons. 1) That's possibly the most atrocious justification for shooting someone ever. If he was probably going to be lynched tomorrow, then WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD YOU SHOOT HIM? It doesn't make any sense, because if most everyone can agree that he looks scummy then we can lynch him. It just doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. From a scum perspective however, it removes Bugs' ability to defend himself and possibly avoid getting lynched. 2) The second part of the statement reads like scum trying to fit in. "...and who I agreed with looked like scum". If you're town, the assumption is that if you shoot someone, it's because you think they look like scum. It feels like over-justifying his shot. ##Vote: Clarity_nl The fact that there has been no counterclaim holds no relevance - if we have a town vig who didn't shoot, there'd be no incentive to claim because it's not a guaranteed trade as there could also be more than one town vig - and the implication of Adam's claim coupled with Clarity's A) shitty target and B) suspicious justification is more than enough to lynch Clarity today. I think he's scum. I wish Bugs had told us who he jailed. Any crumb-hunters out there wanna take a stroll through his filter? What drugs are you on?? If you take out the possible existence of a mafia vigi, Clarity's shot was clearly town - he shot the primary scumread of the thread. In addition, Clarity is prone to sheeping strong players in some situations, notably me - he sheeped my Z-Bo case in Mario, he sheeped my syllo vote in Chrono. The fact that a mafia vigi is now possible doesn't suddenly make him scum, Hapa said well enough that it didn't make sense. To the bold, given I'm the only one who's claimed roleblock (I think?) it's fairly obvious. Otherwise this would fit the bill: On December 13 2012 09:11 wherebugsgo wrote: if I actually got shot then I <3 marv. Just sayingas | ||
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On December 13 2012 22:57 Tunkeg wrote: Don't worry, I am town. You can have a go at WBG post-game all you want, he played like utter shit this game. Also there got to be a scum in either Jaybrundage or Bluelightz (or both). I don't think adam would post his "reads" without least including some of his scumbuddies as scum. Why not? | ||
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On December 14 2012 03:17 VisceraEyes wrote: [/big]JUST WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD I DO THAT?! ADAM CLAIMED VIGI DID YOU NOT FUCKING READ MARV?! WHY WOULD I DISCOUNT THE POSSIBLE EXISTENCE OF A MAFIA VIGI?! ADAM'S FUCKING CLAIM DIRECTLY...[bigDIRECTLY IMPLIES THE EXISTENCE OF A MAFIA VIGI IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW! Think about it, why would Adam claim Vigi? Why wouldn't he claim like...Jailkeeper? Why not claim VT? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE for Adam to claim Vigi AND THEN SAY HE CAN PROVE IT when he's a Goon unless the scum team HAS a Vigilante! Fuck marv, I expected this kind bullheadedness from Palmar, but et tu?!!? ET TU MARV?!?! who gives a flying shit if mafia have a vigilante? what part of someone i consider pretty townie anyway shooting at someone that Palmar and I were pushing at during the night is scummy? The townie explanation requires fewer assumptions, is more intuitive, and lines up with my read on Clarity anyway I have no idea what the fuck you're thinking but you need to get a grip. I can understand jay being an idiot but really you should know better. Although I find myself saying that a lot apparently. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:43 jaybrundage wrote: Hey guys Best Mislynch NA here. (Is it something to brag about? Nope. Do I give a fuck? Nope.) Hear me out. What if Clarity is scum. And Palmar is scum as well. Palmar followed up on his Adam read. Cause it made sense as he had posted the video and he would get town cred and try to get away with some mislynches afterwards if he could. Notice how he puts off making decisions today. And here after stating that bugs was scum a bajillion times cause hes so confident. When bugs is finally admitting to being scum. Palmar responds with stop trolling cause as scum he would know that bugs is town. Just something to think about guys. But regardless I think we should lynch Clarity today. Why some of you have such a great town read on him. For doing shit is surprising. Yes he has been logical. Yes he has pushed cases. But why cant good scum do that. You are acting like hes confirmed town for no reason. He was not part of the adam lynch. In fact he tried to derail it. *Sigh* Ok reading more up on it. Debears thought it was scummy that Clarity changed his vote to adam. When adam claimed Vig. However if Clarity was really a town vig he would have more reason to vote for adam. Because he knew that he was Vig already. However if Clarity is actually just a mafia Vig he could just shoot and claim it. Because he saw the threads direction. People can see WBG is an easy mislynch. But he is a very out spoken person. His lynch would of gave alot of great conversations. Im trying ot think outside of the box here. People give towncred so easily this game. Putting townie as virtually confirmed when its bullshit. Some stuff to think about. Will we lynch Palmar or Clarity today prolly not. As my case isn't as strong as I like. Yes is it a bit odd that I am giving a case and then saying its not strong sure ill be honest But these are my thoughts as convoluted, and twisted as they are. Regardless I want thoughts. Even if you think im crazy :3 none of this is even a case, it's a bunch of what ifs and wifom. | ||
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On December 14 2012 05:39 grush57 wrote: So much scummy play this game I'm not even considered a lynch. No one is paying attention to me :'(. :'( :'( Star...senses....faaaaaaaaadiiiiiiiiing NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COME BACK BABY I <3 YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Wait? What is this? Logic? What? Proper intelligence? What? 100 IQ? WHAT ANYWAYS VE is playing super illogical, but he seems like an honest townie. I don't know about Tunkeg he could either be bad town or scum. Clarity is town. Djordef never mentioned scumbuddy Adam and DIRECTLY tried to counterlynch bandwagon. That play is so bad as scum that is the only thing saving him. I am up for lynching him. I'm also for lynching Bluelightz because his play is extremely bad/scummy. Plus the fact that out of all the vets, I find him by far the most scummy and mafia usually has atleast 1 vet. ... I agree with most, if not almost all of this (barring how strongly I feel about BL) ... my world is collapsing around me... Looking into Djo, Tunkeg, BL tonight before I sleep. Stay tuned! | ||
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The 3 names there are the 3 I think are likeliest to flip scum at this stage. | ||
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About Bluelightz. I looked at his filter and... kinda found what I thought I'd find in his filter, which is a whole lot of nothing. I can't even give any particular reasons he might be town. The strongest reason would be his vote on Adam, but I can't feel that strongly about it. At the time Bluelightz voted, jay had 3 votes, Tunkeg had 4, and Adam had 3. It's possible either way that he put his vote on Adam and hoped he'd pull it together and not get lynched later. Even so, he voted scum and that should be at least a bit of a townie point in his books. There's a couple of things I don't like. Firstly his attitude on bugs - he was down to kill him... if that was the consensus. There was no reason of his own until pressed, and the reason given then was the percentage thing, which was really weak. That feels like going along with it and not bothering to give a reason because potentially as scum he didn't have a reason to give, knowing bugs was town. Again though, I could see town BL doing this :/ The thing I dislike most, which I probably shouldn't but I hate it, is: On December 13 2012 20:51 Bluelightz wrote: Because I haven't had the time? I think your town but how you push me is troubling. Discrediting your case is kinda a no-no since I responded and you haven't responded back. BL hasn't played a game in ages, seemed pleased to be back, but now he just doesn't have the time to even get a scumread? arghkfgjkdlfjlskjfdlkfsdkljfkldjfkj. Bleh, whatever. He's scummy but he's also BL and if I had to go for an alignment, uh... I'd guess town maybe? It just seems like he's not pushing an agenda... I still have not-so-fond memories of NMM2 where Bluelightz as scum made a good-looking case on some lynchbait during Day 1 when (scum) prplhz was receiving heavy heat for both his play and his blueclaim. There was an agenda there, he was deflecting suspicion; here he voted for the scum. Now there's Djodref. There are more things I find scummy in his filter than BL, but there's also some things I find townier too. His vote on thrawn | ||
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more to come | ||
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On December 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: definitely but i'm undecided between him and boson quick interlude. are you actually going to make any sort of case on either of them? you just keep mentioning them but not saying anything else, it's getting kinda boring. | ||
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On December 14 2012 11:30 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv I know you haven't finished your stuff on Djo, but this comment I think is pretty telling of his play. Players like this often are just attention whoring townies rather than scum. I think you're just making that heuristic up ;p | ||
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Now there's Djodref. There are more things I find scummy in his filter than BL, but there's also some things I find townier too. His vote on thrawn was bad and was kinda along the lines of falling into what Adam did. He questioned him repeatedly, and even when it should have been clear that thrawn was probably town, he still ended up chucking a vote on him. Tied into this is that he concentrated on wbg's random 80% number way more than seemed necessary. Generally Djo's whole handling of the Day 1 stuff with adam doesn't look good. On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote: So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. I mean, that's just an example, but similar stuff pops up enough. Djo also concentrates on wifom stuff quite a bit. Like when he was talking about Munk-E posting his stuff on bugs, or when discussing the night kills with regards to BL. That's reminiscent of his scumplay. I don't see his lynchtime shenannies as particularly townie either. They're just what they are, there's no reason scum or town can't make them. Repeatedly he makes passive-aggressive threats to Z-Bo about finding him scummy. Both Palmar and I picked up on this at different times in the thread. It's a really insidious way to try to get someone to stop attacking you. Actually I find this scummier than his actions around Adam during Day 1. Anyways, there's a few things that give me pause. Although I know he's capable of it as scum, Djo seems pretty invested. His analysis of the bugs night 1 stuff seems to come from a townie mindset. Also posts like this: On December 13 2012 18:47 Djodref wrote: This is not true at all. Adam flipped scum and his list post was saying that WBG was scum. It didn't change your opinion at all. Adam and Tunkeg lists look almost the same, it's just lists fitting the general consensus. What's up with your double standards ? He's willing to carry on attacking Palmar even when plenty of the thread is suspicious of him. Kinda puts himself out there. So anyways, Djo is pretty suspicious to me for several reasons, but just recently he's come across with a few more townie things. At any rate, I'm not interested in lynching him today, because I think Tunkeg has a far higher chance of flipping scum. Basically overall I agree with Hapa's assessment that Tunkeg hasn't done anything to make me think he's town. Or at least his small glimpses aren't enough to overturn the rest of his play. His Day 1 contained no scumhunting until he was finally forced to do something to save his ass. Spoilered for length: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote: So I will probably lynched tonight and really I am not that bothered by it, because it will give you some good pointers on who you can trust this game, and who should be scrutinized. Palmar is basicly confirmed town for me at this point. If he was scum he could have easily pushed me with the rest of you. As he stopped reading before he got to me in his video. If he did in fact read his PM after that video, and had flipped scum I think he would be going with the flow, and going for me. If there is a JK in this game he should definately jail Palmar to protect him from harm. He is the town that scum will be gunning for, 100%. Adam is very likely scum at this point. I think he plays exellent as town, at least he have the games I have played with him, but is easily figured out when scum. This game he have been very vague, and unconfrontational and filled up his post with mostly nonsense. He have put out his feelers on multiple players to see if he can get something started. The kicker though is his less than convincing last post where he says I have a high chance of flipping scum. When adam says stuff like this I know he is either scum, or fed up with the game, he is to good to just put an unreasoned vote on me like that. I believe he is scum. Clarity_nl have to be town. His play so far have been very pro-town in my eyes. All that he have done so far are screaming town to me. He asks the right kind of questions, he calls people out when he thinks they are scummy, and he have even made a little case. If he isn't town I will muchachoes surprised. thrawn212 I have a townread on. Yes, he made a stupid joke play in the beginning. Yes he is totally missreading me, to such a degree that I find it laughable. But I think he is a stupid (in lack of a better word) townie, and not a scum player. I feel his intentions are good, but that he isn't really thinking things through. A tip for you thrawn, find some townplayer to sheep, that is pretty much the best you can do for town. wherebugsgo is probably scum this game. You should look into him after killing adam on day 2. A part from his 80%preliminary scumread on Palmar, which is so very useless, he have basicly done nothing but trying to get me lynched while leaving numerous backdoors open which he can slide away into if his push on me fails, Adam, Munk-E. Adam being a choice he is pretty much forced to have on his list, as he is very obviously scummy. And even though wherebugsgo does anything to win an arguement, he is missrepresenting facts and twisting words to such a degree that it is ridculous. My favorite thus far is: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote: generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs... When someone goes after me like WBG have done in this game I usually ask myself: scummy or stupid? I think WBG's townplay is above avarage for sure, and I don't think he is as stupid as his posts in this game makes him out to be. So the conclusion is that he is scum. jaybrundage is scummy to me as I previously stated. He haven't posted much since, but I still find his posts very very fluffy and without content. He is unwilling to commit to any of his "reads" and he contradicts himself within the same posts, like: + Show Spoiler + On December 10 2012 12:27 jaybrundage wrote: I swear to god if thrawn doesnt explain him self. Hes the most anti town player i have seen in a while. Frustrating really. I am only hesitant to vote him because i dont like early bandwagons in general. It hurts the conversation and shit to read if we all are voting the same person. Regardless of how unlogical his claims maybe (for town). Thrawn can you please drop your sharade and just attempt to explain your reasoning. Or as i said before your gonna get lynched Djodref I am leaning scum on, for all the same reasons as before. He have made his fair share of posts, but all I see in them is .................. ....................... ........................... (nothingness). He also made a case on me that is less than weak. Vivax I am back to a neutral stance on. I am not sure wheather his questions have been made to look active, or if he is just lazy, stupid and reads bad enough to not see that his questions have allready been answered previously. Also a player that if town, should find a good townie to just sheep. The rest is pretty much under the radar for me. But I would be watching VE when he pops up again, he is quite easy to read when he starts posting. ##Vote Adam PS: I'll stick around for awhile, playing some Dota, and I might pop in and answer you if I feel the need to do so. If I don't it is either because your question is stupid, I find you stupid/annoying and are ignoring you or that I simply missed it. Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy. It's useful to look at this with the hindsight of a couple of flips. He's forced to call Adam scum else he'll look even worse on Adam's flip. He goes after wbg hard, and calls him later 100% scum, with somehow total certainty, and we know how that turned out. Apart from that we have a scumread on jay for being... "fluffy". Alright. At the time I got the feeling Tunkeg might be town because of the martyring feel of the post, but frankly I'm not really sure why I thought that at all :/ On December 12 2012 18:03 Tunkeg wrote: I am not attacking you for putting to much effort in. In fact what I question is the effort you have put into this. I find it strange that you can have read enough of me to have a meta-read on me at this point. What's the town motive for this attack? It's just spreading suspicion around for... effort? Insidious. He calls multiple people dumb, but basically can't explain it when pushed on it. Town motivation... what? Scum motivation, demoralisation, ez pz. His obsession with nightkills and jailkeeping and stacking and all such things betrays a scummy mindset too. In Liquid City, ShiaoPi made some such post and I instantly admonished him in scumQT because scum love to talk about that shit, and indeed BH pulled Shiao up on it shortly thereafter. Typical make-myself-look-good by calling actions by telling them to do obvious things. Tunkeg is easily the scummiest guy in the thread right now and we should kill what's in front of us. Palmar I think is totally blinded by his ego and his will to be proved right about bugs, which is just a dumb way to play and it's clouding his judgement. ##Vote: Tunkeg | ||
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On December 14 2012 12:17 Djodref wrote: VE going after Clarity reminds me of me going after BH in Mario. Plus his case boils down to few posts only and speculation. On top of that, I don't think that VE could be that misguided. lol you don't know VE at all | ||
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On December 14 2012 12:17 Djodref wrote: VE going after Clarity reminds me of me going after BH in Mario. Plus his case boils down to few posts only and speculation. On top of that, I don't think that VE could be that misguided. like seriously. Ask VE about that time in Liquid City when he was convinced kushm4sta was death-millered despite the fact there was no suggestion such a mechanic existed (it was classed as a Normal) and despite the fact everyone was telling him otherwise. He did it for fucking days, man. | ||
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He's acting similar to HIMSELF in LC. Himself trumps you I'm afraid bro | ||
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I made a pretty big meta case on Z-Bo in Mario Mafia about being passive and less involved than I remember him as town, and it was just completely wrong. | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:02 thrawn2112 wrote: the point is that i don't care at all about irl excuses either way but you seem to be making an issue over it for no reason he's not, you are. | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:07 Vivax wrote: We're cool then, I'm going through Z-Bosons filter now. Anyway, I had that tendency to lynch him for information when I saw jay react like that, since you were wondering why I suddenly had interest in Z. Other than that, I don't have any arguments at hand to call him scummy yet, I might follow up soon if I conclude he is. mafia makes me so sad sometimes :< | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:13 thrawn2112 wrote: sorry i do not comprehend what you're trying to say with this: "He answered himself pretty satisfactorily, and it rises my opinion of Djodref a bit... although he may just be scum with prior knowledge of alignments." I'm talking about Djo's reaction to the Z-Bo case + Z-Bo's response | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:48 Palmar wrote: But it's so dangerous, if he's a terrible lynch we have to lynch you tomorrow, which would suck Somehow you seem to have arrived at a terribly simplistic view of playing mafia. If we lynch Djodref and he's a terrible lynch we have to lynch you tomorrow? No, sense makes not it. | ||
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On December 14 2012 23:38 Bluelightz wrote: Vivax, I don't understand why the posts you pointed out are townie, I only see that you 'like' for no reason and agree with one of his posts. Don't try to understand, effectively Vivax said he liked Djodref's wifom defence, and he liked a post except he gave reasons he disliked it. I'm more interested in where his scumread is actually going to end up, or if he's really sticking with jay. | ||
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Palmar, I spent quite some time in Djo's filter yesterday and I just didn't feel as strongly about it as you seem to, nor do I think it is the correct 'solution'. I need to recheck this 'lie' bit though. | ||
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On December 13 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote: I forgot about these posts... Yeah, at that time, I was under the impression that debears was exaggerating in his analisys of Adam's posts. Right, found it, this. I don't understand at all a player from either alignment doing this. It's just horrible. Slightly different tack: Palmar, what makes you think Tunkeg ISN'T a good lynch? | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Really? How does him being pissed off at the world after doing nothing for 5 days make him more likely town in your eyes? It doesn't, I should probably have attached a smiley or something. I just laughed out loud at his post with the spoilered "nope". | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:19 Palmar wrote: I don't quite know. Not yet at least. This is as good time as any to tell you that if it comes down to the two, I'm going to support a Bluelightz lynch over a Tunkeg lynch... I think. But honestly I need to re-read Tunkeg, maybe bugs was onto something. Please get to it, it's kinda important. Especially his night action obsession, his first reads post in context of flips, and his swing of behaviour between calm and humble when he was being lynched and pointlessly aggressive when he wasn't. At least tell me why he could be town. | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:20 Clarity_nl wrote: Sarcasm gets lost on me, in text. I'm going to read through Tunkeg and BL again. I would much prefer a BL lynch, if Tunkeg couldn't get lynched would you consolidate on BL? I'd kill Djodref before BL | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:28 Vivax wrote: Wtf is up with you marv, can you find me one thing that could even suggest that BL is town? Not really, no. But Tunkeg is plain scummy and quite a bit of what Palmar has to say about Djodref is correct, so I'd prefer lynching him over BL. To recap from my post last night, the reason I'm not at all convinced by BL being scum is I fail to really see the agenda, when I played scum in NMM2 he tried to deflect the lynch OFF scum, here he contributed to it. It's not much but there are better options than BL. | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote: I mean.... yeah every post Tunkeg makes has been "scummy" but a lot of his posts scream "newbie" as well. Does anyone know if he's played much before this? Going through his profile real quick it's 3-4 games but they're fairly old. He's been around long enough that I'm certainly not giving him a newbie pass. | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:36 Clarity_nl wrote: It's posts like this that I can't get over: Are you telling me he's scum who forgot that town has to scumhunt? reverse the alignments and it's still nonsensical so it's basically null. | ||
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Matron marv at your service. | ||
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On December 15 2012 01:14 Palmar wrote: Right we need to talk about this tunkeg thing. I finally read his filter, and to be perfectly honest, I don't see myself getting behind a lynch on him. Can someone tell me what are the pillars of the case against him? Why don't you just read what I wrote? :/ Counterquestion for you: Is Vivax only in your shit-list because of how he attacked the Adam case? Is Tunkeg not in your shit-list because he didn't? | ||
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The second quote is just him being pissy. Taking on Clarity at that point would have been completely anti-productive from either a town or a scum perspective. Why are you seeing town in these?? | ||
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On December 15 2012 01:34 Palmar wrote: I don't know, they just don't fit how I'd expect scum to play. I'm also guilty of trying to understand what happened there on day 1. What the hell was the scum team doing? Did they try to counterwagon? if so tunkeg's hardly scum. Did they autobus adam? Why did they let adam get killed over tunkeg then? both were scum anyway. You're not the only one who thought about it. I didn't come to satisfactory conclusions on that exact same question. I speculated that jaybrundage was supposed to be the scum wagon (on a townie) that day but due to inactivity, or inability to push it properly, it fizzled out and ended up on Adam and Tunkeg. Then if Tunkeg is scum, it's obviously best play for him to crucify Adam in his martyr post. | ||
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Plus I think you're biased in his favour because he said he wanted bugs dead at the time | ||
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On December 15 2012 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote: marv how confident are you that Tunkeg will flip red if lynched? about as confident as I was with Adam pre-vig claim. That's to say, pretty confident, but still slightly worried. | ||
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Anyway I'm going to take a break for an hour or two, I'm still fuming 15 minutes on. | ||
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On December 15 2012 03:15 Tunkeg wrote: I don't give a shit what you do. You are still overrated as fuck, and you are still nothing but a punk ass kid, with a bigger mouth than sense... Overrated by who? What are you even basing this on? Are you basing this upon the nominations for most improved newbie, best town play, and best scum play in Mafia 2012 awards? Or just that I generally get along with people and they respect my opinions? Am I Palmar, or Foolishness, or syllogism, or sandroba? No. Did I ever claim to be? Does anyone ever say I am? No. | ||
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he has problems | ||
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Can we have a votecount, please? | ||
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On December 15 2012 07:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Heyo. What do you think of Zbo's reaction to my poking? His reaction seems fairly null, I see him posting that way as either alignment. I don't really agree with Hapa on his engagement, he certainly doesn't seem more disengaged with the thread than he did in Mario. | ||
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*backs away super slowly from Clarity* | ||
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On December 15 2012 07:46 Palmar wrote: It's so nice seeing everyone holding hands to lynch tunkeg. probability of him flipping scum: relatively small. whatever, I still can't push the djodref thing tonight. what were you expecting when we both agreed on a lynch? You think Tunkeg's responses today have been townie? | ||
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On December 15 2012 08:48 Vivax wrote: Yes, of course, what else. the complete lack of towniness in his filter? his lack of involvement other than bitching? his bussing of adam having never mentioned him before? his completely non-townie reaction to the votes today? And yeah, scum do talk about night action stuff, this is what I said to Shiao in LC: marvellosityPerson was signed in when posted 10-03-2012 10:59 AM ET (US) SHIAO: don't get bogged down in night actions and KP. It's a tell. Also imallinson outed himself (although no-one really noticed) in LVII by speculating heavily on them. | ||
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On December 15 2012 08:54 Vivax wrote: Lol marv, now it's you who didn't hear the tone of my letters. I would find it funny except you're not voting for him. | ||
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On December 15 2012 09:00 Vivax wrote: I'll vote for him if and when I see fit. Well, that's just dandy. | ||
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On December 15 2012 09:06 Clarity_nl wrote: kill me, marv *holds your hand* we can do this! | ||
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On December 15 2012 09:12 Bluelightz wrote: Lazy about scum hunting - People ignoring me and saying every post I make scum or is somehow scummy... (I post something other guy says "Thats why you should vote BL") you know you turn around those views by doing your best to scumhunt, right? Giving up making any effort isn't the way to go. | ||
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On December 15 2012 09:18 jaybrundage wrote: Sorry guys for not being here. I threw my vote for tunkeg as we already have 7 on it, and to stop a last minute vote change. Im like 250 posts behind catching up now. this is like the 2nd day out of 2 that your reasons for voting have basically been "to stop a last minute vote change". What gives? | ||
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On December 16 2012 04:14 Vivax wrote: dis silence at night yeah. Saturday near Christmas... hectic times. Clarity, who's your #1 for tomorrow? Palmar, when are you about? | ||
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On December 16 2012 05:49 Vivax wrote: It doesn't make sense for me that Clarity shot WBG when he was suspecting jay, BL and Tunkeg before, so I prefer to not take his townieness for granted. I told you why, Clarity tends to sheep players he considers to be strong (if my experience is anything to go by). Like, he's not just a sheep because he'll disagree on stuff all the time, but when Palmar and I were pushing on bugs through night 1 it makes perfect sense to me that Clarity would follow up on our read and shoot bugs. I gave examples of Clarity sheeping me before (z-bo in mario, syllo in chrono). I'm not revisiting this topic again, in Mario for some reason town ignored my town-read on Clarity and lynched him, and here matters are even clearer with the vigi shot. If you continue down this path I'll basically consider that you're purposefully shitting up the thread, and hit you violently over the head with a cricket bat, at the very least. | ||
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On December 16 2012 06:22 Clarity_nl wrote: Can we expect a big post of analysis/reads before the night ends from you, marv? you can expect some of my reads and feelings, yes. Its length is up for debate. | ||
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On December 16 2012 08:53 Palmar wrote: Alright. just a few notes for the future. Marv really wanted this Tunkeg lynch, which was quite bad yet he pushed it hard. Don't do anything about it yet but do NOT listen to any of his reads over what I have already stated should I die tonight. He is quite possibly scum, but there's not nearly enough evidence for it yet. If marv tries to push alternative lynches to what I have said, he might be scum. Vivix is extremely disruptive to the thread, he's annoying, loud and wrong a lot. he's basically blatantly pushing mafia agenda. I don't know him, so maybe he's just an overconfident asshole, but you should know that whatever he's doing right now seems to favor the mafia pretty heavily. Bluelightz seems pretty townie to may. Do not let him get lynched tomorrow, there is absolutely no reason he should be. I was right on the Tunkeg lynch, and this is another case of me just not seeing the scum everyone is yelling about in him. Z-boson's latest post looked fairly townie to me. Even if I haven't spent much time on him this game I would probably not consider lynching him any time soon. As I've stated multiple times, Clarity is almost certainly town. There is no reason to even consider lynching him in the near future. Grush is kinda on the edge, but given that you guys must flip djodref, maybe you can get a read on him from that. I'll post about the rest of the players later. You're a dick Palmar. Of course I pushed my lynch, and it was my lynch, because I strongly thought he was scum. Enough that I convinced you to join my lynch, if you think it was 'quite bad' then you're just shit for joining the wagon. But you're not shit, and the lynch wasn't bad in any way, he just flipped the wrong colour. Anyway I might as well start with the people you've written here, and move on. Everything you say about Vivax is true, but in my eyes I think he's town. If any of you care to spare the time, go take a look at I can't believe it's not themed mafia (one of bugs) where I opposed Vivax's lynch on Day 1 for a long time based on a general meta and feel read (although I moronically let Risen convince me to vote him in the end). His play is quite characteristic of his town play, actually. There's the silly white-board/times post which also makes me think town on Vivax. In his own way he cares, he just goes about it in an ass-backwards play too often. I'm... somewhat? confident Vivax is town. Bluelightz I pretty much agree with. His demeanor and mood fits with how I see him play town. There's a particular episode in Rock Band where I first attack him, but then try for many posts to get him to care and play. How he's played here feels so similar. He's done nothing but as Palmar and I noted before he was on Adam day 1 when he didn't have to, and that combined with my feel read pushes BL to a town read for me. Z-Boson I also agree with. I periodically have had nagging doubts about Z-Bo this game but when I look at his filter I think he cares, and he interacts like I'd expect a townie too. He seems to be thinking critically about the game. Clarity town, obviously. Not saying anymore on him. grush I think is town, partly (stupidly) because of his STARSENSES!!! thing and in his own bizarre way he does seem to be making and pushing his reads. Honestly I'm not entirely sure what he'd have to do (or not do) for me to want to lynch him. thrawn is almost certainly town, the miller thing, he seems paranoid about things, I like that. I liked his z-bo case too even though I didn't agree with it. Palmar's town too. Bite me. It gets a bit iffier now for me. Hapa - the play of Munk-E is a blot in his book which is hard to ignore. His absence and vote at the end of Day 1 was just horrid. Since Hapa came in, he's kinda played this generic "pro-town" game. I can't pick particular holes in his filter, but I also can't tell you why Hapa is totes town either. Between him and my next read I think there's a scum, but I don't know which right now. jaybrundage - for some reason I've spent the most time filtering this dude this evening. I've kinda had this 'default probably town' status on jay for quite a long time. But I'm increasingly insecure about this. Practically the last 2 pages of his filter or so are basically either apoligies for not contributing, or promises to contribute in the future. That's just scummy. VE - the posts he HAS made have consistently made me lean town on this guy. His out and out dumbness on various issues (adam reads post, clarity) are strongly reminiscent of his town play. The problem is what he HASN'T posted. I'd be ok with him if in between the pants-on-head there was VE trying to figure out play. It doesn't seem that way. He could be time-constrained or whatever, but actually I respect VE enough that i expect more of SOMETHING from him and I haven't had it, so I'm thinking scum right now. Djodref - This is probably the guy you gotta hang tomorrow. After jay I've spent the most time on him and it seems like I've been finding excuses to call him town, because I like the guy :/ Palmar has said quite enough on why Djo should be lynched, and I can't actually disagree with anything he says, except for finding reasons not to lynch him. there are simply too many facets of his play that point to a scum agenda, most notably his day 1 actions regarding the adam lynch, his passive-aggressive way of dealing with Z-Bo, and his flat-out lie about his adam-debears interactions. Anyway, my other half's been bugging me to watch Fringe for half an hour, so there you have it. Turns out it was fairly big, clarity | ||
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On December 16 2012 09:18 Vivax wrote: djo->jay->VE/clarity->win If I die before I beat into your head that Clarity isn't scum, I'm gonna be pissed. | ||
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On December 17 2012 01:15 Vivax wrote: Hasn't anyone else been wondering why the scum vigi didn't shoot during N1?And how marv got roleblocked? At work right now so can't post properly until later, but wherebugsgo was jailer. With a townread on me. And some "I love marv" post during the night that I dug up a couple days ago | ||
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On December 17 2012 01:27 Vivax wrote: I know , WBG crumbed it with that post. It's hard to tell if you told us you've been roleblocked cause you noticed that crumb or cause you're town. But the fact is, scum vigi didn't shoot that night. I also excluded the possibility of a VE team saving that shot to blame it on clarity, since clarity told about the shot after deadline. I don't understand what you're saying. I told you I was roleblocked because I was told I was roleblocked, unless you think bugs mysteriously jailed no-one? | ||
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On December 16 2012 21:46 thrawn2112 wrote: oh hi palmar, i'm glad you agree On December 16 2012 22:10 thrawn2112 wrote: boson bl and hapa not interested in a jay or vivax lynch, my feelings towards them are sorta similar to how I felt thinking about the tunkeg lynch Firstly thrawn, don't do this. You invoke Palmar to support the Djo lynch, and then in the next post you include two people Palmar thought were town. It's not too important but don't cherrypick to support the idea(s) you currently have. Really though, that's not the interesting thing for today. The two most interesting people today are Hapahauli and jaybrundage. On December 16 2012 10:09 Hapahauli wrote: Way to fight the good fight guys ##Vote VisceraEyes Hurray, let's kill VE! What's the buildup to this? Last time Hapa mentions VE, he was talking to me about it, and at the time we were both agreeing that we were leaning town on VE: On December 14 2012 12:38 Hapahauli wrote: Aw that was too quick =( Nah I thought you were doing the whole "VE is being VE" thing. But good to know we're on the same page. During the resolution period, Palmar and I were dumping our full reads like bosses. What was hapa doing? On December 16 2012 10:02 Hapahauli wrote: I'd read dump, but I don't have much to add to what Palmar had said. I'm still much more hesitant on Djo however. VE will probably be my lynch target of choice if I'm alive. Hapa's just too lazy to bother giving reads to town. And now miraculously VE is hapa's lynch target. So out of nowhere, VE goes from "leaning town" to "primary lynch target". What the fuck? Ask yourselves, what has Hapa been DOING these past few days? He's been townie on Djodref, somewhat town on VE, scummy on BL - and now we have this conjuring trick where VE is #1 lynch choice all of a sudden. Hapa has been coasting along and now he's conveniently changing targets. This dude be scum. On to jaybrundage. Let's have a look here. This guy has been getting along for ages on a pass from players like me and Palmar. As the game goes on, it's looking like a pretty convenient trick: On December 14 2012 06:43 jaybrundage wrote: Hey guys Best Mislynch NA here. (Is it something to brag about? Nope. Do I give a fuck? Nope.) -snip- Hi guys! I'm such an easy mislynch! I'm totally going to be sarcastic about it in brackets though! On December 14 2012 06:44 jaybrundage wrote: ^ These are the kinda posts that make people wanna mislynch me I'm totes an easy mislynch. Don't lynch me guys! <33333 On December 15 2012 09:18 jaybrundage wrote: Sorry guys for not being here. I threw my vote for tunkeg as we already have 7 on it, and to stop a last minute vote change. Im like 250 posts behind catching up now. The whole of day 2 goes by and he votes for Tunkeg... to avoid voting shenannies. We can extrapolate then that he basically doesn't have a firm opinion to give. that's pretty much the whole of day 2 we can wipe off his slate for actually doing something then. Of course jay appreciates that he's done jack shit, but he will definitely help going forwards: On December 15 2012 16:08 jaybrundage wrote: I understand that I didnt help town for yesterday. I had alot of stuff on my plate. I still have some catching up to do threadwise. But ill try to push my reads, and try to be more active. Sorry guys. I'm glad jay is finally making use of his status: On December 16 2012 08:06 jaybrundage wrote: I would be down for a djo lynch. On December 16 2012 14:17 jaybrundage wrote: I support a Djodref lynch. On December 16 2012 14:22 jaybrundage wrote: ##Vote Djodref Nice job there. jay managed to 'look town' to some of us here during day 1, and has basically ridden that all the way through the game. There's constant admissions that he's not doing anything, promises to do more... but we never actually get anything. Scum again. Right now then I'm looking at Djodref, Hapahauli. jaybrundage. Thoughts guys? | ||
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thrawn, can you comment on the relevant shit (i.e. the stuff I've written)? | ||
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Vivax, you're a fucking idiot. | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:17 Hapahauli wrote: Well marv, dunno what to say. I am pretty lazy right now. Final tomorrow, and most of my attention is going to another game. Are you not even going to attempt to explain yourself? | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:24 Hapahauli wrote: Oh, also you're not reading my filter apparently, because you're glossing over some of my posts on VE. You said my vote on VE came out of nowhere, but you missed this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=97#1925 That took me 15 seconds to find. What gives marv? You were planning to ask him a question. I'm supposed to extrapolate a read from this? Forgive me. It goes: VE leaning town - gonna ask him a question - primary lynch target. That's much better. ... | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:29 Hapahauli wrote: Leaning town on VE initially Asked him a question about something rather scummy in his filter Change my mind on VE when a) VE doesn't respond and b) Palmar (who knows his meta far more than I do) thinks he's "sure to be scum" Then I voted VE. Don't see what's wrong with that so you're sheeping and abandoning your previous scumread on day 3 based on an unanswered question? ok. | ||
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Other ppls? | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:36 Vivax wrote: Yeah, I still wonder why the scum vigi didn't hit N1 when you have been roleblocked, marv. so in your strange little world, given I'm scum vigi, I have 2 bullets then? | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:38 Hapahauli wrote: While I hate to use this defense (and it drives me nuts when people say it to me), I just have to here: Do you honestly think I'd be this blatantly sheepy as scum here? Given you've done it in a fashion that only I have picked up on, probably yes. you'd almost got away with it because this town isn't picking up on things. | ||
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Fuck me. | ||
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READ THIS: On December 16 2012 08:53 Palmar wrote: Vivix is extremely disruptive to the thread, he's annoying, loud and wrong a lot. he's basically blatantly pushing mafia agenda. I don't know him, so maybe he's just an overconfident asshole, but you should know that whatever he's doing right now seems to favor the mafia pretty heavily. This is HOW YOU PLAY MAFIA. Look at the assessment of the confirmed flipped town, one of the strongest players ever to grace TL Mafia. Then think about how you're playing this shitting game. | ||
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On December 17 2012 17:44 thrawn2112 wrote: marv, how much did you want to lynch hapa? were you considering it for this lynch? yes, I consider anyone for today's lynch, even Vivax (I jest). Limiting ourselves is silly. I do however need to reach some sort of conclusion in the next 6 hours or so, I have a birthday thing tonight so I don't know when I'll be back. I detest how Hapa is abdicating playing the game until far too close to deadline (I might actually have to disappear before he bothers showing his face). Apart from anything else that's just fucking shit. Not impressed mate, whichever alignment you are. Djodref is just throwing things out left and right and seeing what sticks. Bluelightz' filter being bad doesn't make him scum, for example. | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote: @ Marv I'm just trying to prepare the town for what's going to happen when I flip town. I need your comment on my latest case against Hapa. Honestly the more you try the less I want to lynch you. I can't really disagree with anything that you or thrawn have said about hapa. "why would i purposefully, blatantly, be so shit" is not a defence either. I'll cross fingers you're not doing some bus here, and join you on Hapa. ##Vote: Hapahauli | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:52 Hapahauli wrote: Marv, I refuse to believe that you're being this awful. You of all people should know that I'm psychotically active as both allignments. Yes, and when you're playing differently from either alignment you usually play, and the differences are scum traits, and not town traits, what then? | ||
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this is pathetic. play properly. | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:59 Hapahauli wrote: Let me answer your question with some more questions: 1) What do you make of my early-game? Apparently you and everyone else thought it was very townie. That's cause it is. 2) What about my play so far isn't explained by the fact that I have a final in an hour? The fact that this game is in a very important stage, and you're making 50 posts in Witchcraft for every one you bother making here? | ||
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The temptation for scum to drop-off in activity, or choose one game over another, on time constraints is obvious enough. | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:15 HiroPro wrote: Please stop bringing ongoing games into this thread. Talk about what is happening here. of course, sorry. Hapa do nothing here t.t | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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once and once only, my friend | ||
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We're carrying too many passengers right now. | ||
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On December 18 2012 00:34 Vivax wrote: I'll fully believe for a moment that you're town, marv . Who besides VE and hapa could be scum in your opinion? I think you mentioned jay before, anyone else? VEs filter is giving me day-nightmares. Seems like there should be the 3 scum in Djo/VE/Hapa/jay Djo tears me the most because his effort is really townie, but it's hard for me to let go of Palmar's opinion on him (Djo did flat out lie to the thread at one point remember). jay's 'push' on Djodref looks like he doesn't know how to push him at all, he's just clinging to him like he doesn't know what else to do. | ||
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On December 18 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote: I must resist.... Do you have any idea on which classic setup this game could be based off ? It's the first time for me to play in a 16 players game. Not really, just basic numbers. The closest I think was magic mini mafia some months ago that had 15 players and 4 mafia. Just numbers-wise 3 mafia is too few and 5 is too many. | ||
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Did anyone check / does anyone remember whether VE crumbed in Liquid City? | ||
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On October 11 2012 01:49 VisceraEyes wrote: This could be why I was roleblocked N1. I hardcrumbed Role which itself wouldn't really be enough unless scum were afraid I'd use whatever it is on either austin or Mattchew. Just throwing that out there. Mattchew looks worse because of this imo. this too, although I'm not sure I get it | ||
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i fucking hate this. none of his play is townie, but i hate lynching uncounterclaimed DTs. djfnsdk I think we have to lynch him and hope he doesn't flip DT or we feel very stupid | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:23 jaybrundage wrote: Hmm I dont think VE is scum. In fact i would say that im pretty dam postive VE isnt scum. Seeing how easily this lynch is going. And considering that my vote isnt on VE and they already hit 7. This isnt a bus. This is a Mislynch. Switch to Zboson plz. ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson why would I vote for Z-Boson exactly? None of this makes any sense. | ||
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what's going on?? | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:37 Vivax wrote: Ah fucking Archons. nothing he's posted would make any sense whatsoever if I posted it ... seriously man | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:39 jaybrundage wrote: Why the HELL WOULD I AS SCUM BE TRYING TO STOP A VE LYNCH. HES EITHER A TOWN AND IM THE DUMBEST MAFIA PLAYER EVER. OR HES SCUM IN WHICH CASE I WOULD JUST BUS HIS ASS. BUT if im town. And then that means that the fucking math makes perfect sense. VE ISNT SCUM Hapa, you've missed the point. it sets up perfectly jay is scum with VE. jay hard-opposes VE's lynch at VE's orders two results: 1) jay averts the VE lynch 2) jay doesn't avert the VE lynch but everyone goes "omg, scum would NEVER do that, it's SO blates!" winwin for scumjay | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:42 Hapahauli wrote: Problem: it looks like VE is going to get lynched. Good play for "scum"-Jay to hard-defend VE if scum-VE is going to get lynched in 20 minutes? I"m not buying it this is why it's good play you retard | ||
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and it'd be fucking VE orchestrating it. And it's the fact that intelligent people against you fight against the idea that make it good. | ||
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you're so shallow minded, it's irritating | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:53 jaybrundage wrote: lol nice job lynching scum marv. Oh wait nvm you have been useless fuck off, you moron. | ||
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yes, i'm mad at some irrelevant little shit who's never caught scum in his life lecturing one of the people who helped push through the day 1 scum lynch. | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote: Has VE come up with some grand plan like this in any previous games? I understand that it's possible, but I don't understand how it's likely. when you've played 15 games with VE, get back to me. | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:57 Vivax wrote: VE, congratz on your 7k posts  lol thanks vivax, i needed that. | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:01 Hapahauli wrote: No, I know next to nothing about his meta. That's why I'm asking. LI: never forget the game that was called off because Matt screwed up the hosting the game known for the greatest ever double mutual bus known on TL Mafia, orchestrated by VE himself VE and Toad shit up literally 100 pages of thread in this play | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:03 Hapahauli wrote: GG no RE marv what? | ||
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On December 18 2012 22:09 Djodref wrote: -snip- I also think that this game is over now ^^ I may prepare a case against jay. But I don't feel like I need too... Don't do this Djo, I've been burnt too many times thinking this. I agree with thrawn's assessment of Hapa's reaction to the claim, it's something I'd planned to bring up later myself. At the moment I still think jay is still the strongest lynch, his activity/interactions with VE around the time of the claim and his fail-push of Djo are damning. Just on Hapa, I've read some times this game that "this isn't town Hapa", which makes me feel uneasy without being demonstrated exactly what Hapa is. Hapa was (in my opinion) uncharacteristically passive in Chrono. | ||
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On December 18 2012 22:27 thrawn2112 wrote: marv, look at part 2 of my post for more reasons why "this isn't town hapa." it goes beyond post count and thread presence. what would you have expected from a town hapa instead of what you showed, thrawny? | ||
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On December 18 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote: Hapa doesn't have a weird meta of dieing n1 as town You and Vivax are both doing this, stop it. The reasons should be obvious. I can't do anything about being alive, and this just hurts more than it helps. If you really have to then lynch me at LYLO, but I don't think it will come to that. | ||
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-.- come on thrawn we're going to be lynching scum and/or I'm going to die. Obviously if I'm alive at lylo i wont be "lol lynch me it's ok!" it's just incredibly irritating for people to be going "eh marv scum, he's alive" when i'm pouring myself into this game and doing quite well for town if i say so myself. | ||
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On December 19 2012 00:20 Z-BosoN wrote: Actually, marv, there is one thing I'd like you to explain. Why did you vote VE, if you said your main suspects were jay, Djodref and Hapahauli? Mostly because my reads were kinda in flux the relationships between jay/djo/hapa seemed to make sense when I'd done some rooting around (hapa defending djo, jay fail-pushing djo, etc), so I thought I'd see what people thought about it (hence the lack of a vote at the time). Hapa persuaded me to unvote him on time issues, and I was losing confidence in a Djo lynch That left VE who still wasn't doing anything and really seemed the safest lynch of the lot after all. Which was right thankfully. | ||
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On December 19 2012 00:43 Z-BosoN wrote: I see. Do you agree with my meta read on Hapa? He hasn't OMGUSed like one single person this game and it's creeping me out. Well, this is all part of Hapa seeming more passive, or less attentive/less invested this game. The thing is if Mario is anything to go by, Hapa scum is quite happy to be ranting at people as scum too. Gotta be careful with these meta reads. I'll look into it more for deadline, but in my opinion if hapa is scum it'll be because of his attitude/actions this game, not some awesome meta-read. | ||
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I already explained at the time how I interpreted jay's actions around the lynch events. I could understand, sort of, it being a townie going full-on dumb mode, but combined the rest of his play the answer should be clear. Especially as I'm considering Djo as town now (I presume I'm right), jay basically just clung on to Palmar's read and didn't let it go. | ||
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Lynched Adam on Day 1, Tunkeg on Day 2, lynched VE on day 3? How is this 'mostly wrong'? get lost, Vivax. | ||
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how is 2/3 scum lynches "mostly wrong"? And yes, I'm better than any of you at reading people like grush or Bluelightz. That's your failure as a player and my ability. Sorry for being good bro If you're going to call me "mostly wrong" don't expect me to sit there and then start preaching at me for arguing with you. | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:48 Vivax wrote: There are a dozen of reasons on the previous pages on why grush could be what he might be, do you care commenting on them? Also, how did Jay behave differently from Djo @ the lynch, except that Djo lied to Palmar? Essentially, what I wrote up there. Look at the rest of the play. People's actions can, mostly, be scummy or townie in any context. How did Djodref play day 3? He spent fuckloads of time making scumreads and cases and being active and pushing people. I can't be 100% he's town for reasons you mention, but I'm somewhat confident he is at this point. How did jaybrundage play day 3? He kept pushing Djo without being able to come up properly with reasons he was scum and parrotting Palmar. These two things are not the same. With regards to grush, good luck trying to make sense of him from a rational perspective. Has he gone back on himself for seemingly no reason? Certainly. I'd be surprised if grush did NOT do that. grush, in his way, seems interested in town and where it's going, and at some points has bothered having thoughts of his own (I remember quoting one and saying I agreed with plenty it said). A scum grush doesn't bother doing any of these things. | ||
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Here is grush's scum filter in LVI: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514&user=165092 if you can't see the considerable difference, run around your house naked 3 times, then compare again. | ||
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"I can't believe you could be so bad" you say. That's because I'm not, that's because I'm better than you but you're too stupid to grasp it. I can't help this. | ||
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meta is about broad brush ideas, concepts, attitudes. Meta is not about whether someone came into a thread asking certain questions, he writes these words as mafia/town. Meta reads I give are usually "he is less invested" or "the tone of his posts are this" or in the case of grush here, like I already said, his attitude, approach and contributions towards the game all point towards him being town. It's very simple, do try to grasp it. | ||
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the question is why | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:38 thrawn2112 wrote: djo idk what you're smoking i was dead posting as scum? wat? This. We lynch our #1 scumread in all situations and we carry on. Playing games gets you burnt fingers | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:42 Djodref wrote: Do we need more cases against jay or not ? It's pretty clear for me that he is scum. I would say that he has 95% chances to flip scum. Or can we spend our time on finding the remaining one ? I agree of course that we don't have to just talk about jay, but we kill the scum we're most sure about. so ##Vote: jay | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:58 Hapahauli wrote: Clearly I'm not since I declared my own point invalid. Either way, I posted a response to your case. Care to comment? Declaring your own point invalid is irrelevant. The more interesting part is that you missed at least a couple of ppl comment on Delay already, why aren't you reading the thread | ||
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On December 19 2012 18:59 Bluelightz wrote: How I feel? I feel kinda discouraged from as I said, people shutting down me from speaking anything like what thrawn did (not that it's a scummy thing he did that cuz I guess it's normal trying to shut scum from squirming in the thread assuming I am hypothetically scum). Also, considering the likely chance I will live in LYLO, I just don't wanna get lynched AGAIN. (Can't tell you how many times I've been lynched during LYLO/fucked up during it). If you guys consider me scum - fine, it's not my responsibility to shoulder the blame for my mislynch. Come on Bluelightz, we went over this a couple of days ago. This thread has given you a lot of slack now, mainly from Palmar and I leaning town on you. This means you've had space to operate, and you're still not doing so. Imagine it's LYLO, you're fighting for your life, what do you do? On December 19 2012 11:49 Hapahauli wrote: Just lynch BL first, then me at LYLO. Can we agree on that? I don't want to play this longer than I have to. Hapa, what is this? You argue that you don't want to be lynched right now, but also that you want to play the game for as little time as possible. What gives? Djodref, where are you at with your #1 scumread? It's hard to tell at the moment with the little game you're playing with who we should be lynching when. | ||
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On December 19 2012 15:01 jaybrundage wrote: Im curious. What are you going to do when i flip town. come back from the parallel dimension I was visiting and lynch you here | ||
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On December 19 2012 18:59 Bluelightz wrote: How I feel? I feel kinda discouraged from as I said, people shutting down me from speaking anything like what thrawn did (not that it's a scummy thing he did that cuz I guess it's normal trying to shut scum from squirming in the thread assuming I am hypothetically scum). Also, considering the likely chance I will live in LYLO, I just don't wanna get lynched AGAIN. (Can't tell you how many times I've been lynched during LYLO/fucked up during it). If you guys consider me scum - fine, it's not my responsibility to shoulder the blame for my mislynch. Can't believe I missed this on first pass. It is absolutely your fault, if you are town, if you get mislynched at any point, LYLO or otherwise. Because it marks your complete failure to show yourself as town. Putting the blame on to others is horrible. | ||
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On December 20 2012 00:50 Bluelightz wrote: I feel good because my feelings on jay's defense of VE was like "No, this isn't what a townie would do" and yes I am confident. On the remaining scum? I think it's between Marv, grush, or Hapa. What was it about jay's defence that you didn't think a townie would do? | ||
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*prods you to work* | ||
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On December 20 2012 02:12 Bluelightz wrote: This post - It feels like a desperate attempt to switch the wagon on someone else, also, he seems very sure that VE is town (Why would a townie feel sure that this guy is town? There is no solid evidence - disregarding that jay is scum ofc) and, he doesn't explain why we shouldn't lynch VE because there is 2 scum on his wagon. This might be the best point you've made all game. ok for now. | ||
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Must be the irc mafia hangover. | ||
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On December 20 2012 09:57 Djodref wrote: @ Hapa I'm very interested in your opinion on Vivax is this a Hapa-specific question, Djo? | ||
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On July 14 2012 05:48 marvellosity wrote: From what I know of town Vivax: makes stupid connection cases, bad logical leaps, active and try hard From what I know of scum Vivax: lurky and summarises a lot of stuff. yes it's only one game that's what i got I'm seeing more of scenario 1 at the moment Vivax has done questionable things, but if he hadn't I'd ironically think he'd probably be scum. He's clearly pouring effort into this game even though it's horrendously unfocused, and there are many posts where he shows he's attentively read the thread or what people have said, mixed in with posts where it seems he hasn't read the thread at all. I don't see much point talking about Vivax when he's pretty clearly town. | ||
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Let's go through a couple of hypotheticals. If I'd died last night, would that have made it more or less likely that Hapa was scum (let's remove other behaviour for the moment). Or is it just the fact that Hapa has talked about the night actions a few times that are making you lean more heavily that Hapa is scum? If we take the base assumption that last night mostly town was thinking jay and probably Hapa, what do you think Hapa is gaining from doing what he's done and said about the night kills? If anything, it's made people think he's *more* likely to be scum, correct? I'm not getting my point across very clearly :/ What I'm trying to say is that you're actually yourself wifoming the night actions, and who knows if the night actions weren't made to incriminate Hapa further? It can be argued that Hapa *wouldn't* draw attention to the night-kills if it was a cunning plan. What I want from Hapa is for him to explain his play. I've pointed out two or three contradictions in things that he's said, and there's always been an explanation (that was dumb, dunno what I was thinking, whatever) and thrawn pointed out another further up on this page. The issue is not any single one contradiction but the fact they keep popping up indicates a longer-term pattern of not being able to keep a story straight. Z-bo - what's your opinion on Hapa right now? From your recent filter it seems like you're more suspicious of BL, but it's not totally explicit. On December 20 2012 19:25 Bluelightz wrote: Cant post too much today guys - flying soon and real life is a bitch. So BL, knowing you were flying and real life, yesterday's contributions were your best attempts? | ||
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Djodref, I just went over Hapa's post about night actions again. The issue I have with it from a scum-Hapa perspective is that he's almost painting himself as scum. He dismisses the option of a scum-marv witholding a shot, fine, but then gives two other options - himself doing so, or scum forgetting. He basically gave options where the likeliest option is that he did it. Having understood this I'm not willing to attribute a scumread to it. The problem I have are the incessant contradictions, and his attitude at the time of the VE claim really smacks of scum trying to find a way to not lynch VE right then. On a general note I worry at this stage of the game where things seem "preordained" that the final scum member is surprising and not what town is trending towards - like Z-Bo, grush, or BL. I've seen town lose too many games like this so we need to concentrate on the players who are probably town like this as well as Hapa. | ||
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Remember there was enough in your filter for the first couple of days to lynch the piss out of you, as well. That was until you started shitting townie rainbows in the thread. | ||
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I know you had a scumread on Z-Bo earlier in the game, is he now probably not scum through process of elimination, or has his play changed things around for you? | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:52 thrawn2112 wrote: lol what about my actual response to your question? not a lot to say really because I don't disagree really with any of it I was hoping to find bones on contention so we could discuss it and maybe achieve something but there wasn't anything | ||
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On December 21 2012 01:55 Djodref wrote: And at that moment, Adam was taking some fire from debears and Palmar jaybrundage was taking a lot of pressure So, if Z-Bo was scum, it would have been a bad timing to post his case against me, or maybe just to divert the attention... Looking at that votelist, I agree that Z-Bo-scum pushing another case there doesn't make much sense, given Vivax or Tunkeg were still possibilities at that stage. | ||
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Z-Bo, 3 blues is fine in a 16 player game. I mean, anywhere between like 2 to as many as 6 could be balanced depending on the roles themselves, and the roles the mafia have. From the lack of roleblock other than me from the JK, it seems like mafia don't have a roleblocker, which is normally the primary scum role, so I'd maybe expect a number towards the lower end, or at least not many strong roles. I don't know how to factor in mafia vigi as I'm unsure on my assessment of how strong it is. On Vivax, meh. I need something more than that to make me worry about him. | ||
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On December 21 2012 07:51 Vivax wrote: Scum can't stop this lynch from happening, I'm going to bed soon, so it's trolling time. ##Unvote ##Vote Vivax why would you even do that :/ | ||
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On December 22 2012 03:37 Vivax wrote: The weird thing about marv is that he's still being so bad at this game. So, you thought jay was town then? | ||
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On December 22 2012 04:12 thrawn2112 wrote: djo? idk yet. i'm still working through my read on hapa and atm that's my top priority. but I want to reference this post: the only way that one of djo/boson/thrawn isn't scum is if all the mafia bussed adam why is this either unlikely or likely? | ||
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On December 22 2012 04:24 thrawn2112 wrote: marv... you think it's more likely that all the scum bussed adam? I'd just been taking a walk through the vote-thread. I wouldn't say it was more likely, but not particularly less likely as well. For example, take a look at Acro's votecount on December 12, 09:02 Adam had 9 votes, so already the necessary majority. That was before Hapa/Munk-E had voted, but Clarity (vig), thrawn (almost confirmed town), wherebugsgo (JK), weren't voting Adam either. and then Z-Bo/Djodref. | ||
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On December 22 2012 04:36 thrawn2112 wrote: lol i still dont understand why i've been considered confirmed town by like everyone the whole game. is everyone just writing me off as confirmed dumb townie because of palmar's video? palmar's video was just him saying what was obvious, and the read i'd already given on you. your subsequent play showed effort and paranoia commensurate with a townie as well. if you were scum you'd have been playing not like you have been. Or you could say, you've not given any reason to doubt the original read on you given | ||
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On December 22 2012 07:56 Z-BosoN wrote: @marv since you are likely to die tonight, what are your thoughts on who's scum now that jay has flipped green? I haven't sat down to think about it today. Christmas shopping and gin & tonic have frazzled my brain. The main thing the jay flip tells us is that the two main counterwagons to adam on day 1, jay and Tunkeg, were town. And given how they both weren't pushed at all, mafia were disorganised/inactive/in a state of disarray. Vivax, I sincerely hope you are on some hard medication. | ||
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On December 22 2012 09:10 Vivax wrote: VE is obsessed with me regardless of alignment. We're broskis <3 | ||
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oh dear | ||
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well done vivax. | ||
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On December 22 2012 12:57 Z-BosoN wrote: Tomorrow is my last day on a computer, so yea be active dudes :D I hope to find scum until then with a winning post of GG. Marv is someone that needs to be looked at today. I'll be back this evening to play properly (grmbl christmas shopping). Bluelightz's modkill is amazing for us. Given I'm alive at LYLO (??) I'll give my best interpretation for why. I am another Veteran. I didn't crumb because I thought it would be obvious when I got shot. I am assuming however that the mafia must have a Rolecop and investigated me at some stage - so double stacking me at any point in the last few days would mean that mafia would have needed an extra mislynch to win the game. Bluelightz's flip inherently makes me more suspicious of Z-Boson and Djodref. grush... I still think is town. Certainly it seems at least one of the scummers has been playing very well despite the collapse of his team otherwise. | ||
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On December 23 2012 05:47 Djodref wrote: I agree that BL modkill is amazing for us. But, marv, you didn't even mention Hapa, so do you mean that you have him as scum ? Just got in from dinner. I didn't mention Hapa because I'm struggling to see a team without him in it, unless it's you and Z-Boson. | ||
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This is one of the primary reasons I'm so suspicious of Hapahauli. I've asked him more than once about Bluelightz and talked about the townread that me/Palmar gave on him, to try to find out why he's so keen to disagree with us. There's some history here too, in Rock Band (where hapa was town, BL was town) I again cleared BL as town through his play, while Hapa was sure of him being SK. This game could be Hapa being equally 'paranoid' of Bluelightz as town, but the explanation that's more likely is that he was using BL as a front and as the mislynch scum needed. | ||
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##Vote: Hapahauli | ||
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On December 23 2012 08:20 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv Shortly before the N2 deadline, you posted a response to Palmar detailing your reads on the entire playerbase. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=99#1976 Notable from this post: You were thinking scum on VE, and then one of your first posts on Day 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=103#2059 You then attack my rationale for defending VE... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=104#2070 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=104#2072 And then... So my questions to you: 1) Why did you vote VE, when you were looking at myself, Djo, and Jay as the scumteam? 2) Can you walk us through your thought process on N2/D3 in regards to your suspicions? On December 19 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote: Mostly because my reads were kinda in flux the relationships between jay/djo/hapa seemed to make sense when I'd done some rooting around (hapa defending djo, jay fail-pushing djo, etc), so I thought I'd see what people thought about it (hence the lack of a vote at the time). Hapa persuaded me to unvote him on time issues, and I was losing confidence in a Djo lynch That left VE who still wasn't doing anything and really seemed the safest lynch of the lot after all. Which was right thankfully. Effectively after the end of night 2 and when I'd made that post, I'd spent quite a lot of time filtering people and at that moment those 3 made sense as a package, which is why I presented it as such and asked for thoughts from the rest of town. Events after that post led me to fall away from Djo and you, leaving behind VE who was an independent scumread. | ||
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On December 23 2012 08:47 Hapahauli wrote: Moar @ Marv Around the time that VE claimed cop, you took a rather exasperated stance on things: In this post, it seems very clear that you're not thrilled about the idea of lynching VE and are pretty torn on things. 4 minutes later... What I found odd about this was both your explanation and the turn-around time. You go from uneasy to extremely convinced by the actions of a player that wasn't VE. More odd is what's missing in your analysis - nowhere do you describe why VE/Jay scumteam is more likely than the alternative (Jay = stupid town). You simply state that VE/Jay is scum because this grand plan could have happened. Bonus: This post is odd considering the context of the game. On Day 3, I was presumably one of your top scumreads (you had your vote on me earlier in the day), and yet the bolded statement seems to imply that I'm town. Not a lot to say other than I had a zing moment on jay where it all made sense to me. Usually these things aren't a gradual realisation but they come to you while you're in the thread seeing things. As to the comment on intelligence, it doesn't imply that you're town at all. You are intelligent, and whether town or scum the point is correct. | ||
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On December 23 2012 08:58 Hapahauli wrote: So as I'm looking through Marv's filter, one of the huge problems that I'm having is that there's very little analysis pertaining to people that have actually flipped scum, and tons of analysis on people that have flipped town. What of this? Mostly I sheeped Palmar day 1 on Adam, and I said enough about VE because there was not a lot to say about him. It's pretty easy to provide detailed analysis on scumbuddies because you know they're scum with unpure motives and if you're bussing them why not. This point is ass backwards. | ||
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On December 23 2012 16:36 Hapahauli wrote: HOLD THE FUCK ON A MINUTE. Marv is scum. Marv claimed veteran. He's the 4th blue claim. The chances that there are 5 blues in this setup balance wise are... not very high. Yet marv's post regarding VE: If marv is the veteran, he shouldn't show the slightest bit of doubt lynching VE here. VE would be the 5th blue claim in a 16 man game. ##Vote Marvellosity You do realise bugs' game had 5 or 6 blues in a 13 man game with 3 scum, right? We could have a gf/vigi/goon/rolecop setup, or whatever. I'm pretty sure I made a post earlier where I said anything between about 2-6 blues could be balanced depending on scum roles. I had no real reason to disclose my role earlier in the day, I wasn't under any particular amount of suspicion and I didn't need to make a play to 'save myself'. The simple fact is that it's lylo and I went for full disclosure. Djodref: what do you expect out of a veteran mentality? I'm motherfucking marvellosity. I post a shit-tonne, I help lynch scum on day 1, what more do I have to do to get shot? Historically I rarely crumb my roles; I did so in Rock Band because I felt insecure in my position near the start, but in games like LI or Dwarf Fortress I didn't breadcrumb my tracker role, I've never crumbed my vigi roles (again, because it would be obvious, like it should have been with my vet role). | ||
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It's easy as fuck to make a case against grush because he is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS going to show scum traits just because of his "trolly" playstyle. There's nothing in his play that suggests he's playing at all like his scum play. yuk. | ||
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On December 23 2012 14:06 Z-BosoN wrote: Looking at grush, I really can't see anything in his posts. I didn't see the big difference in his filter marv announced earlier, not even after running around my house naked three times. Djo is now a town read for him, despite him wanting to kill Djo badly earlier on. VE also manifested a town to scum transition in his filter. And he seriously thinks we are a scum team. I really can't make any of his posts. why is this outrageous? | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:21 Hapahauli wrote: One post before I hit the road... see y'alls tonight! Ok maybe this was less of a "EUREKA" moment than I had thought. However, Hapa policy-lynch rule #2 (lynch marv at lylo) is starting to make much more sense to me right now. Outside of sheeping Palmar/debears on the Adam vote early on Day 1, you've been largely pushing mafia objectives. D2) Tunkeg lynch D3) Push three non-VE targets (Jay, myself, and Djo... seems like a townie crowd) D4) Jay lynch And now I see you convinced of my guilt. I've seen no frustration, or even hesitation about you lynching me today, despite it being a non-contested bandwagon at lylo. Like honestly - not a single person in this game has defended me for the last ~120 hours. And you think that I'm scum? Doubt it. As a last point, I saw a lot of frustration out of you when you pushed two mislynches in GSL II Mafia. I don't get any sense of frustration, urgency, or even emotion from you right now when the game is on the line. I'm pretty confident that you're flipping red. Obviously you have to take this stance right now, Mr Flip Floppy. Even this cycle you called me 99% town at some stage, and now because of the veteran thing which you're now admitting was not a point at all, you're "convinced I'm flipping red". The fact is mafia were likely bussing you hard today because you were likely to be a liability. I love that you're trying to pin the jay lynch on me when everyone thought he was scum and Palmar joined me on the Tunkeg wagon. Why the fuck would mafia defend you? | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:28 Djodref wrote: Why not ? If you are a team, you can win today. I mean, it would not be strange for mafia or town to show an activity outburst towards the end. right, I was about to say this myself. | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:26 Djodref wrote: It's not sudden, but it's true that you didn't try to lead since Tunkeg's lynch. You didn't try to push any lynch when the choice was between VE and me. So in your world where you know you're town, how hard did I try to push your lynch on Day 3? Or did I in fact vote VE, then come back near deadline and after thinking things through made sure VE got lynched? | ||
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On December 23 2012 22:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Marv, why would i take all this effort to bus hapa? Dont be ridiculous. Grush has a meta thats easy to hide your intentions in, im not about to give him a town read based on your meta read on him. Plane is leaving but as it stands, hapa came looking much better after my interaction with him, and i really dont think they djo hapa are a scum team. Its a big risk to take to give a town read on a scumbuddy when being pressured. ##vote marv Ill post more and update my vote when i land, i rlly need to shut cell off. The fact you're even asking or phrasing the question this way heavily suggests mafia objectives. Why are you, indeed, 'taking all this effort' to bus hapa, and then voting me at the end of it? | ||
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On December 24 2012 03:21 Djodref wrote: My problem is that you gave it as an excuse for not being dead yet when the weird thing is that you didn't get shot at all. Would you have known it if you had been shot ? i would have been notified if I was hit, and I wasn't. To repeat, what was the benefit of me doing that as scum, it gains me nothing and I leave myself at risk of some other claim. I speculated mafia had a rolecop precisely because I hadn't been hit. I don't really have anything else i can say on the matter | ||
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On December 24 2012 03:49 Djodref wrote: Some of this posts look like he knows what is going on. Here are some examples: Maybe he knew that association case between VE and jay was wrong Here I find strange that he doesn't even mention BL, he seems like he was prescient of what the situation was going to be. I don't like his 180 on me so much, but it's true that I've been really trying to show that I was town D3. That's all I have regarding grush... what do you mean by the bolded? basically you don't have very much negative to say about grush. With "some of his posts look like he knows what's going on" - sure why not. grush isn't a total idiot, his intuitive reads can be pretty decent, so it's not right to be surprised when he says sensible things. | ||
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On December 24 2012 05:08 Djodref wrote: But I still think that lynching Hapa is the right move to do. But I'm really less sure than before jay's flip. obviously. jay flipped town rather than scum which he should have. your job, whether you're in france or not, is to convince me you're the townie and not z-bo. that's by far the less obvious thing for me right now. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:51 Djodref wrote: Mm. I disagree. Thrawn and Vivax would have gone after Z-Bo, and yeah, both of them are dead. Thrawn was convinced that one scum had to be among the people not voting Adam D1. This led him to write his Z-Bo case before, and he mentioned it again before being killed. Vivax has been tunneled but Z-Bo a lot this game, so I guess that he could have found him suspicious at some point. Replying to things as I found them. Just as a reminder, Vivax's last read on Z-Bo was "99% not mafia". Probably wrong, but don't use that as a basis of wifoming yourself on night kills. | ||
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marvellosity
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On December 24 2012 06:52 Hapahauli wrote: Also, you're missing the point about marv. Marv's not just any player. He's one of the best town players in the game. Actions speak louder than words. Marv has been pushing mafia objectives all game, other than an early bus of Adam (which btw, is really easy to do, since he'd know Adam was scum). More importantly, marv has not pushed a correct lynch once all game. Think about that. Marv hasn't pushed a correct lynch all game. Town marv lynches scum. Scum marv lynches townies. Town marv has never been alive at lylo in any recent games. Pretty easy lynch IMO. I've been pushing mafia objectives all game, other than the early bus on scum day 1 "which is really easy to do"? Brilliant, so as scum I just let myself get "swayed" by Palmar's video when there was no reason for me to do so. My position at the time was suspicious of debears. And I change my mind so easily because of some video as scum? Don't be fucking ridiculous. I changed my mind because I agreed with what Palmar had to say. I could have EASILY stuck with the course I was on, without being suspicious. Give me a fucking break. hello mr marv 99% town is now 100% scum. Get lost, scum. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
How much can you fucking flail. Give me a break. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
do i really need to requote my earlier post? or did I somehow envisage this moment would come??? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:17 Hapahauli wrote: Remember this marv? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=48#943 Oh the memories. because that is like this game how? you yourself have said this game is nothing like that game. hi scum. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:20 Hapahauli wrote: I don't have to rationalize anything to you. I love ya buddy, but you're scum <3 in other words, you can't answer the point, so you'll randomly call me scum. grats. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote: Don't you love how magically active grush is all of a sudden? It's pretty funny. hilarious. now why don't you go look at LVII when grush was way mroe active at LYLO as town as well. Or are we beyond researching things, and just randomly saying things to try to incriminate other people? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:32 Hapahauli wrote: Because he was a prime Jailkeeper target on N1. He was shot the second the JK died. Why wouldn't marv be shot? There was zero risk to kill him. *looks back at all the times I died N1* *thinks that marv isn't a prime n1 target* *REMEMBERS THAT THE FUCKING JAILKEEPER TARGETED ME NIGHT 1* | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:35 Hapahauli wrote: That makes you town how? So WBG JK'd scum by accident. Unfortunate, but we can fix this mistake tonight. it doesn't make me town however, you going "WHY NO MARV DIE" doesn't make me scum, either. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:36 grush57 wrote: Djo-and Marv we agree to vote Z-bo after Hapa dies right? this looks pretty likely. you might be dead by then though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:39 Hapahauli wrote: No, but your lack of killing scum is a pretty big tell. my sincerest apologies for only voting for scum 2 days out of 3 and then killing the guy that everyone thought was 100% scum afterwards. Seriously, hapa? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:48 Hapahauli wrote: Do you realize how well the kills line up with scum marv? Debears would be the CLEAR choice for marv (as scum) to kill on Night 1. Palmar is the clear choice for anyone on Night 2. No NK on Night 3. Similar to how marv saved KP in both DeathNote Mini (as mafia) and Normal Mini Mafia (as mafia) later in the game. Night 4. Marv's two top town-reads died. you're just making crap up about nightkills. are you really reduced to wifom tlike this? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 07:44 Djodref wrote: So, let's assume that marv is town. He is not killed N1 because of the fear of the JK He is not killed N2 because he has Djodref as main target for the lynch and VE as town He is not killed N3 because of scum holding the KP He is not killed N4 for the WIFOM, So, yeah, it's possible for marv to be town. MAFIA COULD HAVE A ROLECOP. Read. Djo. Read. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 08:20 Djodref wrote: The thing is, both Vivax and you were concerned about you being alive so long. But that's WIFOM... Tell me, Djo. I'm town and I'm alive. What can I say? What can I do? Apologise for being alive or something? I'm not gonna apologise for being alive. I am going to push hapa for giving me a 99% townread and then wifoming that I'm mafia. Seriously, go fucking look at his arguments. wifom central. it's fucking ridiculous. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 08:40 Hapahauli wrote: The problem is that you can't dismiss this. Once again, I refer you to the following - how does a Z-Boson + Hapa scumteam make sense? The strategy from us in this position is completely nonsensical. Z-Boson "bussed" me for the last 120 hours. Then all of a sudden we change plans at the last minute to lynch fucking "town" marv? That's the stupidest plan ever. Sorry bro, I'm not giving up on this game. You have to change your mind or we lose. remind me why i'm scum again, when you called me 99% town earlier? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
Congratulating me doesn't make you less scum, my friend. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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Tunkeg is shit. there's actually nothing mroe to that. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
ok dear. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:40 Hapahauli wrote: Completely controlled. Quite the crafted response for calling someone an arrogant shit. It's a shame this game will end in 2 hours. But of course we'll be friends after that again =) you're flailing buddy. and you've tried very hard, i'm impressed at your tenacity. in the end you're flipping red though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:54 Hapahauli wrote: Marvvvvv talk to me? How was your day? I'm bored and waiting for the flip. hey scumbo. i've had a nice day. christmas tree finally went up, and various other things that made me a bit emotional. plus you didn't get to weave your scum wiles over me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
thank you to the hosts, bar a questionable modkill decision this game exhausted me. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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naw, z-bo was a boss. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 25 2012 05:27 Vivax wrote: Well played, well played scum. VEs interactions with Z-Boson led me onto the wrong tracks regarding him. I shall thereby not be led by scum in my beliefs. I would like to know if marv could achieve the same results with a smurf account. I noticed that so many townies are afraid of pushing against him. He deviates arguments so effectively by either provoking or asking questions that make you think he's town when you try to answer them. Z-Boson was kinda lurky until the end. Still a really good play in terms of invisibility The only ones making cases on you were VE and thrawn I think. When I tried to join VE on the bandwagon against you he immediately called me out for scummy bandwagoning, I think that's indicative of it having been a fake case, in retrospect. He should have been glad to have people on his bandwagon, instead he did the opposite. Well, fuck me, I could have seen it and made the connection.. Hi Vivax. You could be a pretty decent player, because you're hard working, attentive, and you pick up things. These are all fine qualities for playing mafia. However, somewhere among all this is the tendency to go crazy (see scum thrawn theory, amongst others). This means that the little pearls you drag up are lost in the quagmire of crap that you bring up the rest of the time. To Djodref: next time it'll be different And yeah, I had to keep telling Z-Bo to not bus me, he'd been wanting to for days. I'm curious if I, as town, would have lynched jay day 4 like that. I'd like to think I wouldn't but it's hard to say. Especially as I was occupying one of the 2 scum slots at that stage, which wouldn't be the case if I were town. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On December 25 2012 08:55 Dandel Ion wrote: lol Your claim was quite obviously fake, town just didn't pick up on it at all. Which sounds exactly the same tbh. You can keep telling me how horrible I am, cause I am, but that claim was so obviously fake even I saw it first second, so yeah... you just have confirmation bias. but i'm not gonna argue, so that's the last i'll say on it. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote: IMO it's fine to vigi active people if it's your own read. If you vigi someone on someone else's read then you fucked up. The only time I have ever missed as a vig is when I'm using someone else's read. e: also I disagree with Palmar about the defending thing, if you genuinely believe the target is town and in danger of being mislynched then defend him. That's why I defended djo and jay so hard, because I thought they were free mislynch bait. I fell into the trap of "assume this guy is town until later" with marv since he was in the top 2-3 of people who weren't being completely retarded/inactive/not caring. My bad on that. He actually had decent things to say on d1 and that's why I considered him town over Palmar for the jail protect (Though there was no way I was going to guess the debears shot) this is very silly. regardless of alignment, probably i have more sensible things to say than most of the playerbase. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:00 Acrofales wrote: On my iPad for the next two weeks or so, if I remember you'll have more thoughts from me when i get back. Some brief points now: 1. Policy lynch Marv on D3, or at the very least put some serious pressure on him. His excuse for being alive was just really fucking convenient. Plausible, but really convenient. It worked because it came at lylo and town was really insecure. The kind of pressure needed to find Marv should have come earlier and harder. 2. Very well played by scum. Imho a Marv lynch should have happened, but even so I think Zbo would have gotten Hapa lynched before himself, securing the victory. 3. As I said in scumQT, there really was no alternative to the modkill. Waiting for BL to not vote would have been an option, butt would have fucked town over completely if they had opted for a no-lynch. Particularly as BL would not have been around the next day, at lylo, either, making it effectively a scum victory by default. To leave town with any chance, we had to modkill him at the start of the day. While slightly disadvantageous to scum, by taking out one of the dodgy looking inactives, it left you guys with plenty of opportunity to seal the deal... and you did. BL is a member of town, so that's exactly what should have happened. And he wouldn't be around the next day, because he'd have been modkilled. Town aren't going to no-lynch in a 2 scum situation, that's a really silly rationale for basing your decision on. Town still had the balance of votes even if BL was alive and not voting. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36158 Posts
On December 26 2012 15:31 Clarity_nl wrote: "kill me, marv" yep, had a good giggle to that one :p | ||
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