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On December 04 2012 15:11 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah sure I'll sit down with their filters. That and a couple of other things are on my to-do list. I see you're still parking your vote on me, a yellow-bellied choice if ever there was one. My vote will change before the deadline. I'm just not sure to whom yet.
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On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Answer time: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 09:53 Keirathi wrote: -snip- Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion? I am leaning town on him now, because of several things: -letting DYH survive -I was able to see where he was coming from, while reading the filter again, in regards to the way he played it out. -BH's post n1/d2 have all been much more helpful than d1 and also more helpful than you are. Point 1: Fine. Point 2: Huh? Point 3: And here's the kind of thing about you that I have a problem again. This is a bullshit line that doesn't MEAN anything. What about him has been helpful? What about me has been unhelpful? Fucking use some posts to back yourself up.
On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote: I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that.
Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak.
Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak.
Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him.
Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm.
You are totally in gaga-land right? Judging from your post it seems as nothing I say will make you stop this stupid tunnel. Not even looking into Keir at this point is just utterly incomprehensible to me. Take a look at his filter and at Ace's, now first off Ace, he has been entirely unhelpful for d1, just sniping in comments without much reasoning (oh and he was a dick anyway), now look at Keirathis entrance, it totally derails the thread into the discussion at the end of d1 with his insane tunnel on BH, also his unwillingness to do anything besides tunneling is irking me out, but since you are doing the same with me, I guess that did not matter much to you. screw you, done talking with you. Yet more pointless bullshit with nothing to back it up. My unwillingness to do anything but tunnel BH? I've literally commented on more people/things since I joined the game than you have since the start of day 1.
On December 04 2012 20:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Now moving on: I do not like the way bugs reacted to the pressure at all, he is doing nothing to confront the case, just repeatedly saying that it is bad, while being totally unhelpful on why exactly I should be lynched. I mean even Kei has started to slowly look somewhere else than BH and is by now more useful than bugs.... Also this: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:03 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 10:59 Blazinghand wrote:Well, I must say the case on ShiaoPi DOES exist, but I don't see him as a good lynch today, for a couple of reasons. Although VE's interactions towards ShiaoPi don't paint ShiaoPi as town, I don't find ShiaoPi's interactions towards Marv or VE to indicate he was acting with scum motive. Typically ShiaoPi is a player who is analytical, thinks a lot, and doesn't write lots of big cases. When he does, though, they're logically consistent and show his mindset. I don't like that he backs of Xalatos in his big post on page 59. I don't think Xalatos is any townier now than he was yesterday. He says he has a "clear scumtell" from Xatalos but the voting pattern doesn't line up. I disagree with this, and I think ShiaoPi would realize that scum would much rather shoot than push Marv, who is a dangerous player as town. In fact, Marv is known for getting shot N1. I just don't think that ShiaoPi would reread Xalatos filter, and find him scummy but say that Xalatos' saving grace is that he didn't vote Marv. Scum shot marv-- they always had the ability to do so. I like that he voted Keirathi, because Keirathi is scum. But ShaioPi's thoughts on Xalatos are not consistent with someone who is thinking critically about Xatalos' play and finding him scummy but with exceptions. I'd be willing to consider a ShiaoPi lynch today if people aren't willing to get on board with Keirathi. As it stands, though Keirathi is a better lynch. The fact that this is his chief contribution aside from defending himself and tunnelling me is apalling. On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote: Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. pure waffling. Where are your reads? where's your pressure, Keirathi? You are scum trying to wriggle out of the spotlight now that you've realized your case on me is revealed for what it is! more bad meta usage. gtfo, you don't know what you're talking about. This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:01 wherebugsgo wrote:your argument falls down to basically "you're not scum because you didn't wreck the thread by arguing with me like you did with Erandorr." If you can't see where that logic falls on its face then yes, you are indeed so biased that I was correct in ignoring you. Why would I make the same mistake twice? On December 04 2012 06:59 debears wrote: EBWOP
and it hasn't made u look terrible. Everyone has town reads on you o.O you say that as if it was foreseeable. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote: WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote: WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky) WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote: cool, I was right. You're biased and bad. Let's move on. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote: also I find it ironic that you are trying to discredit me now when you tried to use past results to justify that your trash case on DP.
When he could be making more posts like this: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 02 2012 09:51 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Go back and look at how BH switches his votes and how he reasons them. Look at how he attacks DP. I made by far the best case against DP, a solid (though as it turns out, ultimately incorrect) meta case. I sat down and did the homework on it. I'm gonna admit the reasoning on the MrZ vote was bad, but if your critique of my play is "BH swaps around a lot" then yeah okay I swap around a lot, but that's just how I roll. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Firstly, one could argue that voteswitching doesn't really tell us anything about how BH is scum or not. Sure, one could argue that, but then consider that BH doesn't do any work in pushing his targets either. He switches really often, usually with no attached reason, and he's so erratic that no one really knows what he's going to do or why he's going to do it.
ALWAYS with an attached reason, usually because unlike you I actually try to interact with people in this thread and listen to what they have to say. I don't think people here are retarded. I don't like getting talked out of things, but if someone genuinely convinces me that a read is wrong, then yes I will unvote and vote someone else because my goal is to lynch scum. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: As town I feel like BH usually at least gives reasons for attacking people. It looks as if he feigned contribution on DP/Zentor,
Zentor was a mistake, but I DID put in lots of work on both him and DP. just because I use links instead of quotes to make my meta cases more legible doesn't mean they're bad. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote:and stuff like this: On December 02 2012 07:01 Blazinghand wrote: Wow all these people agreeing with me to lynch DP and I'm the only one with a good reason. Don't look gift horses in the mouth I guess suggests that he's more concerned with his appearance than actually finding scum. What? It suggests that I'm dubious of people on my wagon but I'm still confident in my read. On December 02 2012 09:40 wherebugsgo wrote: What's especially weird is his vote switches between DP and DYH. These are just done for no reason at all and he never states why his suspicion of either changes as he does it.
Lastly, I haven't heard anyone yet say that they find BH to be townie. Notice how people consistently call him scum (even marv did) and no one really considers him town, but there's always a different target with the attention on them. I trust MrZ's read and I thought it was reasonable. I still think it's reasonable and DYH is scummy, and I swapped back to DP because I don't lynch blues D1. the "best case" on DP was still garbage, and despite the fact that I pointed that out repeatedly you managed (along with derpellosity over here) to still tunnel him to death. So, BH, if you are town, who is scum then? which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town. is some damn fine analysis ( and to Kei it is also one of the reasons why BH is town to me.), austin also mentioned movie mini mafia, which I think was a pretty good educated guess. Add that to the fact that I am still getting lynched as of now and my Kei votes does not seem to get traction, I am switching now. ##unvote: Keirathi ##vote: Wherebugsgo Rofl at the bolded party. That post came 10 hours after you already said you thought he was town.
But good lord, could you possibly sheep BH any harder? Of course not, because you're scum who just keeps jumping on the popular bandwagon whenever you possibly can.
##Unvote: BlazingHand ##Vote: ShiaoPi
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On December 04 2012 22:06 ShiaoPi wrote: @Kei: I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy. And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that? So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?)
Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2?
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On December 04 2012 22:34 Xatalos wrote: On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all. Don't worry, he's not going to flip town.
I've played with town ShiaoPi and scum ShiaoPi. This ShiaoPi is the latter.
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On December 04 2012 22:52 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:29 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 22:06 ShiaoPi wrote: @Kei: I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy. And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol
Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that? So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?) Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2? Stop twisting my words, I said you have now been starting to look at other people, which is one of the reasons I am more willing to off bugs now. You cannot deny the fact that for a good part of d2 you have been in tunnelvisionland. I am just stating the chronology of your play. Yes, BH's usefulness was limited in d1 but still go reread his filter with the possibility in mind that he is town. But I would assume you arrived at at least a null read on BH by now, which is good for your own sanity methinks. What constitutes a "good part of d2"?
I made my meta case on him ~2 hours before the deadline, then pushed it for ~8 hours after the deadline, then dropped it. That's a pretty small portion of the day, IMO.
I may have had a lot of posts in dialog with BH during that time, but it wasn't really that much time.
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On December 04 2012 23:37 ShiaoPi wrote: So you seriously want to lynch me off a single mention by VE sandroba? What the fuck is wrong with all of you? What...?
That's not what sandroba said, nor was it my case against you.
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On December 05 2012 00:04 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 23:51 sandroba wrote: @shiaopi I'm voting for you because i think you are scum. Doesn't matter if you say "but, but, but, i didn't do anything, it's ve's fault" or w/e. To find scum you need to define a pattern in which you believe they will behave given a specific situation. Unfortunatelly for you, you fit the pattern I arbitrarily defined that scum would behave day 1 in a 2 townie wagon and then day 2 after being acused. Ve's comment is just icing on the cake and serves to strenghen my belief and make everything fit toghether even more nicely. Fucking ridiculous is all I can say to that, you do not even define what that "pattern" of yours is.So anyone else that fits that pattern?
On December 04 2012 23:08 sandroba wrote: Now let's look at ShiaoPi. This dude is desperetely trying to survive. Compare his posts d1, when he wasn't in any danger, to his posts today. He is trying really hard to justify any bandwagons he can hop on to save his own ass. Also look at how this retard wagon on bugs gained traction out of the blue. Even more reason to suspect we were right about ShiaoPi. Use your heads please.
I believe that is the pattern he is talking about.
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On December 05 2012 01:17 debears wrote: ^^^
add 5) you had a strong town read on the leading lynch candidate He wasn't the "leading lynch candidate" though. DYH was. DP only got lynch at the very last second because of DYH's claim.
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You're wildly misrepresenting how it went down.
Bugs was pushing for marv to get lynched. Marv was leading the vote, and claimed cop. People switched off of marv to DP. Bugs said "what the fuck kind of cop claims day 1. lynch marv!" More people voted DP. People started switching DYH, until DYH was set to get lynched. Then DYH claimed vig, and two people unvoted him at the last second.
Now, what do you expect a townie to do in that situation? Maybe you can think he's not townie because he didn't stick around for another 20 minutes and hope for another vote swing, but leaving in frustration is equally plausible.
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On December 05 2012 02:30 debears wrote: After his whole day 1, and him flipping out on town, you're going to defend him saying he was frustrated?
He leaves 20 minutes before lynch when a strong town read of his was up for lynch and comes back calling everyone retards?
There is no town motivation for that.
He was not there, he decided for some reason to play dota durjng the lynch out of any time of the day. He couldnt wait 20 minutes? I call bs
Of course you call bs because you have your confirmation bias goggles on. Just like I have mine on for BH, and no amount of people yelling otherwise can convince me that one thing makes up for him not playing to his town meta at all.
But think about it for yourself. You're convinced WBG is scum. Imagine he's leading the votes with an hour left, and then everyone starts switching off of him to BH (whom you have a town read on, correct?).
How would you feel in that situation? I know I would be pissed.
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On December 05 2012 02:55 debears wrote: Also keir. I did the same shit he's pulling when I was scum. It feels so scum motivated to me
If he was town, he wouldnt bitch at us for lynching dp. He would have bitched at himself for leaving amd not saving dp I could almost agree with that second part if it wasn't for the fact that the counterwagon was on the vig.
I know bugs has an ego though, and I dunno, it just doesn't seem unlikely for a town bugs to say "fuck you guys" before and after the flip.
I'm not even a highly regarded player and I've gotten so frustrated at times that I had to take a break from the thread. So I can definitely see someone like bugs doing it.
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On December 05 2012 03:05 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:03 Keirathi wrote:On December 05 2012 02:55 debears wrote: Also keir. I did the same shit he's pulling when I was scum. It feels so scum motivated to me
If he was town, he wouldnt bitch at us for lynching dp. He would have bitched at himself for leaving amd not saving dp I could almost agree with that second part if it wasn't for the fact that the counterwagon was on the vig. I know bugs has an ego though, and I dunno, it just doesn't seem unlikely for a town bugs to say "fuck you guys" before and after the flip. I'm not even a highly regarded player and I've gotten so frustrated at times that I had to take a break from the thread. So I can definitely see someone like bugs doing it. He didn't know it was the vig for sure at that point. If he was so willing to lynch marv for a bad claim. Why not dyh? Dyh claimed with 30 seconds left to lynch. He barely survived cuz of it. Think about it. Herp derp.
He was convinced Marv was scum, so he didn't believe the claim. He had no real opinion towards DYH, so it was easier to believe.
How does that not make sense :o
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On December 05 2012 03:06 debears wrote: Hmmm just thought of something Do share.
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I certainly don't have a town read on him. I'm in the same boat; I have no idea how to read him. I don't like the fact hat he refused to give reads and things to be held accountable for earlier, then voted ShiaoPi for no reasoning, then hopped around to WBG because "Oh he was on my list too!" or whatever.
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@austin:
You seem to be hung up on WBG fighting with marv. Did you go read Rockband?
I believe I know marv as well as probably almost anyone on TL. If he gets in a fight in thread with someone, and thinks they are scum, he would be yelling about it up and down. The fact that he didn't call WBG scum even once says that marv thought WBG was town, and that they were just bashing egos against each other.
Now, I certainly don't think marv's reads are infallible, but at the very least it gives me pause to voting WBG. Marv is quick to call someone scum who does something he thinks is scum motivated, even if he changes his mind later. Do you think, as an outside observer of the fight, you have better insight into WBG's motives than who he was fighting with?
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On December 05 2012 06:23 MrZentor wrote:Yeah, Marv NEVER thought WBG was scum. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:15 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote: wait, wtf? My last post didn't go through.
I don't remember the last votecount but from my mental image of the game it seems like we're moving toward lynching Xatalos. I'm fine with that; I have some small doubts that he might not be scum (i.e. his activity, for one) but I've seen him play active scum (Newbie XV for example) so perhaps it doesn't mean anything.
However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey why so scummy, bugs NEVERRRRR I was obviously talking about when they were actually fighting with each other.
Marv did call WBG scum that time in the middle of d1, but he changed his mind pretty quickly. When they started fighting, if marv thought WBG was scum, he 100% WOULD have been yelling about it.
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On December 05 2012 06:27 MrZentor wrote: I like how Keirathi is just blindly defending WBG.
Scum buddies? I'm hard defending a town read to make sure he doesn't get lynched, and ShiaoPi does. If that makes me scum, then why are people jumping on WBG for not defending his townread more and just letting him die :o
Can't have it both ways.
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On December 05 2012 06:34 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 06:27 Keirathi wrote:On December 05 2012 06:23 MrZentor wrote:Yeah, Marv NEVER thought WBG was scum. On December 01 2012 10:15 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote: wait, wtf? My last post didn't go through.
I don't remember the last votecount but from my mental image of the game it seems like we're moving toward lynching Xatalos. I'm fine with that; I have some small doubts that he might not be scum (i.e. his activity, for one) but I've seen him play active scum (Newbie XV for example) so perhaps it doesn't mean anything.
However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey why so scummy, bugs NEVERRRRR On December 01 2012 10:18 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote ##vote: wherebugsgo I was obviously talking about when they were actually fighting with each other. Marv did call WBG scum that time in the middle of d1, but he changed his mind pretty quickly. When they started fighting, if marv thought WBG was scum, he 100% WOULD have been yelling about it. Then perhaps you should have said something like "Marv called WBG scum several times, but I'm going to disregard this, because I like to think Marv was extremely confident that WBG was town." Rather than Show nested quote +The fact that he didn't call WBG scum even once says that marv thought WBG was town It's much less misleading. I agree that I worded it a bit poorly, but you're missing the point. What I SHOULD have said was:
The fact that he didn't call WBG scum even once [while they were fighting] says that marv thought WBG was town [during night 1]
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On December 05 2012 06:38 MrZentor wrote: And no, it doesn't.
It means he wasn't sure either way, considering his recent attack on WBG. Then you don't know marv very well.
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On December 05 2012 06:44 austinmcc wrote: To some extent here Keirathi, you're ... not backing up far enough.
Part of your argument here is that you know Marv well enough to know that he didn't think WBG was scum during N1. Yes, you've got some reason to think that, but you've also got to understand you're two generations removed.
You're relying on yourself being able to interpret marv's actions/thoughts. You're also relying on marv's thoughts being correct. Doesn't mean that your arguments shouldn't be given weight, but you need to recognize that you're stringing two possibilities together here in order to get to your argument, and we can't be certain about either. I'm not relying on marv's thoughts being correct, I'm relying on them giving reasonable doubt to a WBG lynch to push the person that I actually think is scum: ShiaoPi.
Do you not agree with me (or sandroba for that matter), that ShiaoPi has basically blended in for as long as he could, sheeping onto all of the major bandwagons?
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