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On November 19 2012 10:36 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:On November 19 2012 10:28 Promethelax wrote:On November 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in you scare me sometimes. in a good way? is creepy good :p ah, a good way. I'm glad. After I died in acme I had a dream where Marv kicked me in the knee and ran away screaming Juuuuuuuuuubjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub. Mafia is taking over my brain.
I do do this irl.
/in
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thanks man, appreciate it.
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On November 19 2012 23:47 Acrofales wrote: /in
A greymist themed game! So much /in. Even though I barely played chrono trigger (and I know that is one of the shortcomings of my youth).
Don't remind me of youth t.t
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On November 19 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote: Check marvel's bday because of that comment, mysteriously absent.
for i am timeless
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On November 20 2012 00:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 12:06 Promethelax wrote:On November 19 2012 12:05 marvellosity wrote:On November 19 2012 10:36 Promethelax wrote:On November 19 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:On November 19 2012 10:28 Promethelax wrote:On November 19 2012 10:27 iamperfection wrote:On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: I'm as in as in can be and I'm glad to see that incontrol isn't the only other guy playing.
/in you scare me sometimes. in a good way? is creepy good :p ah, a good way. I'm glad. After I died in acme I had a dream where Marv kicked me in the knee and ran away screaming Juuuuuuuuuubjuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub. Mafia is taking over my brain. I do do this irl. /in I bet you do buddy. Glad to have you here so you can yell at me in game instead of postgame. I look forward to this and I promise: as scum I'll shoot you d1 to keep your streak going. You heard it here first! If Marv gets shot N1, then Prom is scum!
setting up mislynches already? ^_^
I imagine I'll be quite useless this game, so hopefully I'll be safe >.> <.<
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On November 20 2012 13:03 BioSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 12:59 Oatsmaster wrote:On November 20 2012 12:40 GreYMisT wrote: Observers will need the extra time.
What is this supposed to mean? lol excited!! PLEASE HURRY UP GREYMIST. I think it means I signed up for the right game =D
lmao, touché sir, touché.
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you know very well I use the word shenannies.
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My posting is clearly pro-town already and so you won't be getting my vote, kita.
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Probably some mix of town reads and probable utility (if someone is clever, derp) is the right way of choosing teams.
Like if someone is clearly town but an idiot then I wouldn't invite them into my hypothetical party.
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Another reason I shan't be voting you then, dear.
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On November 21 2012 11:17 sandroba wrote: I hereby declare I want to lead you simpletons to victory. My party selection will be as following: I will choose 3 of the less known players who I read as town at the end of the day to compose the party. The reasoning is that this mechanic will greatly favor town in attempting to confirm players. This is better done for players less likely to get shot for 2 reasons: 1) They have less meta information available on them therefore harder to read. 2) Vets/Well known players are likely to get killed n1 if they are town, even more so given a successful mission, mitigating some of the advantage town might get. This serves to both preserve the good/known players and to keep the confirmed/likely town around longer. I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject of party selection and help come to the optimum way of doing things.
none of this makes any sense to me.
People are harder to read and less likely to be shot, why does that make them a good party?
You think scum will shoot people who aren't town/good/whatever just because they were or were not in a party??
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On November 21 2012 11:29 sandroba wrote: Well I can tell people are town pretty consistently (even more so than finding who is scum), so I will select less likely to get shot players who I have a town read on to take on the mission .I don't see what's confusing about that. I think scum will shoot certain players, regardless if they are considered town or not by the majority, if they are town quite early. That makes them not so good targets to be "confirmed" early on because it's a waste. If scum chooses to shoot the "likely town" group assuming I succeed in the mission, it preserves the town vets. If they choose to shoot the town vets it preserves the "likely town" group. I hope this helps clear it up.
Unless I missed something setup-wise, I'm not getting your linking who gets shot and who is in the party together. If for instance syllogism is town, what difference does it make whether he is in a party or not? Doesn't he just get shot anyway?
How does people being in a party, mission successful or otherwise, 'confirm' anything?
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hmm, just read the events bit in the OP and it doesn't seem like the party does much, it's just the hidden assigned values. i hadn't really grasped that.
So I guess voting for a town-read who you have confidence in making other town reads is the best bet after all. Kinda what sandroba is sort of saying I guess, in a really convoluted way.
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i think hapa was labouring under the same misapprehension as me, that the party actually has to do stuff for the event.
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I would quite like to know what people were "expecting" from a town hapa as well.
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in that situation i wouldn't particularly expect anything different from town hapa than I would from a scum hapa.
he can be pretty prickly as both alignments.
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On November 21 2012 12:29 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:27 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. What in the actual fuck. Sure it's information but it's information impossible to decipher. Odds are you'll hit a scum somewhere in your massive pit of chaos but how will you tell the difference between him and the townie who just happened to get it wrong. Scum will have to choose another person or risk showing their hand and causing the event to fail. Town can freely choose themselves since they know they'll only help with the event. Doesn't seem chaotic to me. Why is it seeming chaotic to you?
brilliant, town will choose themselves and scum will choose someone else in case the event fails.
oops, scum just outed himself. scum will obviously just choose himself then, won't he.
then town will be in a situation where one or more of the party are scum. But then they would be just as aware of that with any composition, and with a lot more control over who they put in in the first place.
Silly.
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you won't get any information, see above
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i wonder how long we can discuss this infinitely awful idea for.
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On November 21 2012 12:42 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:41 marvellosity wrote: i wonder how long we can discuss this infinitely awful idea for. Respond to my modified version?
if i'm leader and i choose my strongest 3 townreads, why the fuck do I want people who aren't strong reads on my team? I chose those 3 people for a reason.
People will be discussing who should potentially be in any party anyway. No-one is prevented from doing this, so giving them some arbitrary power to choose doesn't add anything.
When it comes down to it, you want the 4 people likeliest to be townie in the party.
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TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.
It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad.
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then we make sure we don't elect a scum person.
can't be that hard to make just one or two very likely town reads, no? ^^
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On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote: There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough.
I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it.
Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing.
Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet.
There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game.
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syllo, will you throw your support behind sandroba if you are fairly sure he is town, or will you actually be running yourself?
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I'm most interested in you as party leader at the moment.
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syllo srs contestant
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On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.
what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion?
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sounds reasonable. his play feels very similar to when i played with him last in Bureaucracy.
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On November 21 2012 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote: The comments are above the quotes :D
maybe clarity is scum, maybe he isn't, but all your case was was providing a commentary without showing why it applied to one alignment over another.
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On November 21 2012 23:29 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 23:27 iamperfection wrote:also its a null tell because he is well aware of it now. Aren't we clarity? I like my day 1 play, I see no reason to change it. Marv and zbo both had town reads on me last game.
Indeed, you were pretty clearly town. For my read on you I'm waiting to see how constructive you are this cycle. So far, not so much.
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On November 21 2012 23:34 iamperfection wrote: @ marv
i should be on the team right.
you sure do love fishing for people's opinions on your alignment I'd say you were probably town at the moment, but I'm not certain yet.
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On November 21 2012 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyone want to say how Clarity acts when he is scum? Djo/iamp/marv?
he hasn't really played enough games (hardly any) to make a particularly solid meta read. He played remarkably more constructively as town than he did as scum. And I would agree that he hasn't been particularly constructive so far, but it's too early for me to want to make a call on it.
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I can assure you I will perform no pants-crapping.
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On November 22 2012 00:34 iamperfection wrote: look at you guys with your contributing
gsl II bad one to use he replaced in and got expert coaching
agreed, it's why i didn't link it
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lol Toad has a reputation for being imba? gosh, someone should've told me.
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##Vote: syllogism
momentum gooooo
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On November 22 2012 00:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Hmm.. Currently, after reading through his filter, I have a null read on Syllo. What did you guys see that gave you a town read on Syllo?
sandroba said why well enough
On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah.
and like i said before, his play feels the same as last time i played with him and he was town
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What information do you think he is fishing for?
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On November 22 2012 01:11 kushm4sta wrote: I actually don't care at all who is elected leader. I just said that shit before about making the scummiest leader because I wanted to contribute something unique.
Also to the people looking for scum meta: good luck with that. I haven't been scum for so long that I doubt looking at scum games is going to be helpful. If you really want to do meta research on me (which I don't recommend because reading my filters is something I would not wish on my worst enemy) I would look at my town filters and see if I'm matching those.
Right now I do not have a clue about scum reads or town reads. I have given this thread, at best, a skim, The problem is there is entirely too much spam about topics I think are irrelevant.
I wish we could just play this game like it was vanilla!
So you signed up for a *heavily* themed game where it was 100% obvious electing party leaders was a core component, yet you don't care about this and wish it was vanilla?
Why are you here?
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On November 22 2012 01:16 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 00:42 marvellosity wrote: ##Vote: syllogism
momentum gooooo Getting your sheeples in line? ##vote Sandroba
Of course. Why sandroba over syllo then, darling?
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On November 22 2012 01:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 01:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 01:16 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:42 marvellosity wrote: ##Vote: syllogism
momentum gooooo Getting your sheeples in line? ##vote Sandroba Of course. Why sandroba over syllo then, darling? No reason. Call me the black shh
Ok. Let it be known Acro is voting for sandroba basically because I'm voting for syllo.
A somewhat petulant way to play the game (even if you brush it aside jokingly)
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You dislike him, or he's scummy?
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On November 22 2012 02:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Can I have a legend for your color scheme?
orange is a scumread. Z-bo/Hapa were this colour end of day 1 in mario. Crossfire was in red when I died, for "i'm certain".
Cave comes in calling some fluffly nublet scum without actually calling him scum and for nebulous reasons. Supremely easy target. "his mafia team could have told him to do that" is nonsense too.
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On November 22 2012 02:28 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: *colours Cave in orange* Can I have a legend for your color scheme? orange is a scumread. Z-bo/Hapa were this colour end of day 1 in mario. Crossfire was in red when I died, for "i'm certain". Cave comes in calling some fluffly nublet scum without actually calling him scum and for nebulous reasons. Supremely easy target. "his mafia team could have told him to do that" is nonsense too. Does this scale move across to green/blue? What color are you and what color is syllo?
I'm in green for certain town, also reserved for people I'm totally sure on. Cyan for moderate townread, where syllo currently resides.
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On November 22 2012 02:32 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: *colours Cave in orange* Can I have a legend for your color scheme? orange is a scumread. Z-bo/Hapa were this colour end of day 1 in mario. Crossfire was in red when I died, for "i'm certain". Cave comes in calling some fluffly nublet scum without actually calling him scum and for nebulous reasons. Supremely easy target. "his mafia team could have told him to do that" is nonsense too. Easy target != wrong Kill the easy targets before end game or you lose its simple game logic. Trying to go around that on day 1 is idiotic and foolish and you should know better.
obviously you misunderstand what I say, but do carry on.
Easy target as in he's new and fluffy.
Technically you're an easy target too, but I still think you're scum.
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On November 22 2012 02:37 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:33 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:32 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: *colours Cave in orange* Can I have a legend for your color scheme? orange is a scumread. Z-bo/Hapa were this colour end of day 1 in mario. Crossfire was in red when I died, for "i'm certain". Cave comes in calling some fluffly nublet scum without actually calling him scum and for nebulous reasons. Supremely easy target. "his mafia team could have told him to do that" is nonsense too. Easy target != wrong Kill the easy targets before end game or you lose its simple game logic. Trying to go around that on day 1 is idiotic and foolish and you should know better. obviously you misunderstand what I say, but do carry on. Easy target as in he's new and fluffy. Technically you're an easy target too, but I still think you're scum. The new and fluffy will have to die as well. We don't need complications in the end game.
Excellent, more wanting to kill people for reasons that aren't that they are scum.
New and fluffy != scum (to use your construction) and we want to kill scum, dear.
Anything else?
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On November 22 2012 02:39 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:38 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:37 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:33 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:32 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 22 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: *colours Cave in orange* Can I have a legend for your color scheme? orange is a scumread. Z-bo/Hapa were this colour end of day 1 in mario. Crossfire was in red when I died, for "i'm certain". Cave comes in calling some fluffly nublet scum without actually calling him scum and for nebulous reasons. Supremely easy target. "his mafia team could have told him to do that" is nonsense too. Easy target != wrong Kill the easy targets before end game or you lose its simple game logic. Trying to go around that on day 1 is idiotic and foolish and you should know better. obviously you misunderstand what I say, but do carry on. Easy target as in he's new and fluffy. Technically you're an easy target too, but I still think you're scum. The new and fluffy will have to die as well. We don't need complications in the end game. Excellent, more wanting to kill people for reasons that aren't that they are scum. New and fluffy != scum (to use your construction) and we want to kill scum, dear. Anything else? No point killing scum if you can't kill Lavos
What's that got to do with being new and fluffy?
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On November 22 2012 02:47 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote: CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. Revealing my identity would be so destructive that I may as well have been a scum member. Its not happening. I'll explain the reasoning next cycle.
Right. In any case you have effectively made yourself completely useless and non-functional until you do so.
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On November 22 2012 02:53 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:49 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:47 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote: CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. Revealing my identity would be so destructive that I may as well have been a scum member. Its not happening. I'll explain the reasoning next cycle. Right. In any case you have effectively made yourself completely useless and non-functional until you do so. You know better than to ignore people as well. Colour me disappointed.
You are playing absolutely without a town agenda. In addition there is some promise for future explanation for your play.
The current, likely explanation is that you're scum playing with a scum agenda.
Until you start playing with the goal of killing scum and/or explain yourself, then yes you are effectively useless.
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On November 22 2012 03:00 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 02:56 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:53 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:49 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 02:47 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote: CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. Revealing my identity would be so destructive that I may as well have been a scum member. Its not happening. I'll explain the reasoning next cycle. Right. In any case you have effectively made yourself completely useless and non-functional until you do so. You know better than to ignore people as well. Colour me disappointed. You are playing absolutely without a town agenda. In addition there is some promise for future explanation for your play. The current, likely explanation is that you're scum playing with a scum agenda. Until you start playing with the goal of killing scum and/or explain yourself, then yes you are effectively useless. I play to win. You cannot win without an end game plan. I gave no promise of explanations for my play (Nor will I ever) but an explanation to my role. Perhaps you should read the conversation before you speak. Honestly you're moving up on the kill list rather quickly...
you're awfully patronising for someone who is clearly a weak player.
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On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by. I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot.
I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway.
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On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by. I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible
On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah.
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On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by. I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that.
On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote: Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread.
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risk, it says right there in the post.
Come on now.
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On November 22 2012 06:46 iamperfection wrote: @ Marv
What do you think of bios town read on you. I think it is bs and it seems like to me it was a pre calculated move to come into the thread with. I dont see how anyone can drop a strong town read and i can see you easily saying that quote in his post regardless of alignment
Bios post also doesn't say much at all just that he doesn't have a problem what is going on.
Im thinking scum
You've played way more games with me than Bio, though, who's played with me... once maybe? And certainly not for a long time.
The fashionable read on marvelbabe is that I'm hard to read day 1, and he didn't go with that so meh. I can see how if you're not familiar with my play that he could see what I said there as a towntell anyways.
I'd like Bio to say some shizzle on the more controversial topics, like his opinions on Cave/Denisore for example.
Clarity - Cave is still bad or scum or both, and the important thing is that he doesn't get invited on today's event.
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why are you telling me?
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I'm assuming there's a little more to it, but he can answer that himself.
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of course, i'm blates town.
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risk: you've kinda answered your own point.
It is possible to have a townread or otherwise on Denisore and you said yourself one of the controversial things about Cave there. I was prodding him to talk about something.
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no, iamp, you can wait for Bio to answer himself.
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Disturbs you in a "grr, that's scummy" way, or a "you shouldn't be doing this qtpie" way?
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On November 22 2012 07:24 phagga wrote: I have the feeling that your post is sincere, but I'm not sure. If this is indeed how you are feeling, then you shouldn't be doing this, qtpie. However, there is the possibility that you are just setting yourself up to make excuses later on. I doubt it, but I don't want to dismiss that thought yet.
what potential excuses do you think that post might lead to?
I will quite happily discuss it with you now so you can hold me accountable to it later.
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On November 22 2012 07:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote: Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all.
Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do.
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On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote:I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote: There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nukeBesides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbigHis opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4staI'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself.
Just catching up. This whole post is bad and lacking effort. You're away for a day and we get turkeys and "he said he'd host a newbie game"?
Most of your comments on players don't even point to the possibility of someone being scum. iamp's one-liners "annoy you", my post was a "cop out", risk is simply "probably scum" and you're "wary" of kush. That's rubbish.
Also, accusing syllogism of being a vegetarian is something I simply cannot abide. Unacceptable slander.
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On November 22 2012 12:45 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 12:36 Dienosore wrote: Cant believe you guys aren't even considering me for first party leader. Would it help if I made three towny reads and put them all under the scope with me? Fine. Give me a minute to whip something up. Well, you had scumreads on GK and me, which clearly shows that you are unable to properly assess players alignment. So nobody is going to vote for you. No harm feelings by the way... You should stop your campaign and focus your attention on something else. That would be my advice...
Why does this "clearly show" he is unable to properly assess players' alignments? Have you and GK done some fantastically townie things I've missed?
If you're taking the angle "I'm town, so you're wrong and bad" then that's completely useless to everyone else because scum would say they're town too. Anything else?
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Also kush is a moron and I hope, and will make my best efforts, to never play with him again.
If he's telling the truth he will die.
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On November 22 2012 20:28 sandroba wrote: @marv what are your top town reads right now amogst the newer players?
Oatsmaster and TheChronicler are two of my stronger townreads.
Dienosore is probably town as well but his tedious party leader platform annoys me.
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On November 22 2012 20:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv this is a suprise to you? So I guess you have more than 30 hp, ALTHOUGH KUSH could be lying about the hp amount he has.. Also with the issue brought up by some people with the lack of a contender to Syllo/Sand earlier, scum could be waiting to see what the event does to the party members before committing themselves to a course of action
oh sorry, I expected to have some stupid ability used on me by a useless player in the middle of the day. My bad
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Cave hasn't disappeared off my scumdar, dear. Nobody else I wish to talk to you about right now.
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gk, I don't remember you writing so... formally before.
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On November 22 2012 21:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I just caught up, there's actually not a lot in the last 10 pages. The most interesting thing was kush's "action", which could be real or false given the heavy flavor. People seemed to ignore it for a bit, djo pointed it out and people still ignored it. Marv finally ended up reacting to it quite violently as if he was really pissed and knew what was going to happen...? I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv?
where did you get "makes marv so sure it's an actual thing" from me saying "if he's telling the truth"?
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On November 22 2012 21:49 goodkarma wrote: Okay, I have finalized my team. It will be of an unusual composition (of the semi-lurker variety). Since mafia needs to influence party compositions in this game it is to their advantage to be proactive and not lurking. As such, I have chosen those I see as both pro-town and semi-lurking. These individuals I feel have been semi-lurking while contributing genuinely to the thread their own thoughts and opinions about the current game mechanics and other players. These are currently my strongest town reads.:
In no particular order: 1) Djo 2) phagga 3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...)
I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then.
Earlier Djo was your 'weakest' read and I can't find any particular mention of phagga.
Explain your choices please.
100% I would not vote for you based on these choices at the moment.
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I agree with your general sentiments, Acro. There's nothing that's pushed GK towards the town category for me.
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On November 22 2012 21:55 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 21:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I just caught up, there's actually not a lot in the last 10 pages. The most interesting thing was kush's "action", which could be real or false given the heavy flavor. People seemed to ignore it for a bit, djo pointed it out and people still ignored it. Marv finally ended up reacting to it quite violently as if he was really pissed and knew what was going to happen...? I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv? It's an ability that Cyrus has in Chrono Trigger (yes, I looked that shit up in the chronopedia). Kush claims Cyrus and Nirvana Strikes marv. I can see no reason for Kush, who is playing a lousy game (even lousier than usual), to jump out of nowhere, fakeclaim and fake-ability Marv. It just makes way more sense for this to be real. And given the way he did it, he is expecting to suicide with it. It is pathetic, but I see no reason to mistrust its authenticity.
Right, it could be fake, but the natural and probable assumption is that it isn't. There's not a lot else to say on the matter.
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Clarity, you know very well I have an extremely low tolerance threshold for stupidity.
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On November 22 2012 22:11 goodkarma wrote: I have already briefly discussed my reasoning for Djo. And since reassessing my reads I have seen no reason for removing him.
phagga - Again not a strong read. He fits my selection criteria of a semi-lurker who shows interest in scumhunting and has his own train of thought for how to go about selecting a candidate...
Indeed phagga does not have as much of a track record as I would consider ideal in making a read in a normal game, but for this particular setup he is not being as active as would be ideal for mafia. That was a part of my train of thought in choosing him. Presently the challenge has been differentiating town from scum and that has been harder with the "townhunting" system. This is the system I have devised to increase the chances of picking town this cycle. I am open to hearing other suggestions, but as it currently stands this would be an ideal team for my selection criteria.
So you think the benefits of you knowing (from your perspective) you are town but unable to make strong townreads outweighs the risk that another candidate is not town, but is capable of making strong townreads?
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Please answer me before you go
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On November 22 2012 22:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 22:25 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 22:11 goodkarma wrote: I have already briefly discussed my reasoning for Djo. And since reassessing my reads I have seen no reason for removing him.
phagga - Again not a strong read. He fits my selection criteria of a semi-lurker who shows interest in scumhunting and has his own train of thought for how to go about selecting a candidate...
Indeed phagga does not have as much of a track record as I would consider ideal in making a read in a normal game, but for this particular setup he is not being as active as would be ideal for mafia. That was a part of my train of thought in choosing him. Presently the challenge has been differentiating town from scum and that has been harder with the "townhunting" system. This is the system I have devised to increase the chances of picking town this cycle. I am open to hearing other suggestions, but as it currently stands this would be an ideal team for my selection criteria.
So you think the benefits of you knowing (from your perspective) you are town but unable to make strong townreads outweighs the risk that another candidate is not town, but is capable of making strong townreads? From what I've seen the other candidates have not made strong townreads. Okay, now I'm going to bed...
It doesn't mean they don't have them. At the moment I have a group of about 6 players I would be considering bringing and I'm fairly confident I could bring this down to 3 quite sure town. I would be surprised if this was not the case for syllo/sand/kita.
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On November 22 2012 22:49 syllogism wrote: Goodkarma your system relies on a very questionable assumption; in every single game it is beneficial for mafia to be proactive and not lurking, yet few ever do. Overall I would characterize as your play and posts as droning and overly explanatory. Unfortunately you appear to show similar characteristics as town and mafia, so I'm not sure if that means anything.
what do you make of Promethelax's play + votes so far?
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yes, I already pointed that out Acro. You're totes old news there.
iamp is on my likely town list, btw.
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On November 22 2012 23:07 Acrofales wrote: Ugh, I should probably consolidate my thoughts and questions for Kita. He is really puzzling me. Here is the next question:
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Kita: I really need more info if I am to consider you seriously. You are making a lot of sense. To decide between you three, I want all three of you to post your thoughts, answer questions and allow me to make up my mind.
Which is it?
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All my questions have a point, I'm always somewhat spammy, and I never get mislynched.
Why did you even say that?
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Clarity, I get the sense that you don't quite know where you stand in this game, or what you're trying to achieve.
You're latching on to minor points about things and pursuing them quite hard.
What do you think your primary goal of today is?
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On November 22 2012 23:26 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 23:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 23:07 Acrofales wrote: Ugh, I should probably consolidate my thoughts and questions for Kita. He is really puzzling me. Here is the next question:
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Kita: I really need more info if I am to consider you seriously. You are making a lot of sense. To decide between you three, I want all three of you to post your thoughts, answer questions and allow me to make up my mind.
Which is it? Both. His posts make a lot of sense, but his alignment is puzzling me.
You dissected his reads post well enough yourself. Presumably you do not characterise that post as "making a lot of sense", then. Was it just an anomaly?
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On November 22 2012 23:29 Clarity_nl wrote: I like questioning people, and I think it works best if it's like a conversation rather than me post a blurb of text followed by a single question, when that method of gets shut down as being called spammy or useless I guess it got me down.
My goal for today is to scumhunt. I think the election thing is important but I don't have to post much for it, just have to find my biggest townread who is running and look at their reads and see if I agree. If I do, that's great, back to scumhunting. I haven't been as succesful, or I guess felt as succesful, as I did last game. I'll definitely have some reads ready before resolution period though.
I'm just bitter that you get away with playing the way I want to play, but I don't, I guess.
You've played what, 3 games? I have built up credit and reputation that you cannot have, regardless of how good you might be. Plus it implies a mis-characterisation that all short posts/questions are the same, which they are not. Obviously I'm biased, but mine are more useful than yours
What worries me about the underlined is that you simply sheeped me on to syllo. This is fine in itself as my ego loves to have players sheeping me. But I see little interaction with syllogism after this to either cement or sway away your vote. Given you are voting for syllogism I would expect that you would be more proactive in getting information from him.
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On November 23 2012 00:01 Toadesstern wrote: goodkarma wasn't even "running" when I did my post earlier. Yeah could have voted him as well but Kita was posting around that time.
This is pretty much a supremely weak reason to vote for someone and you know it.
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Then why are you playing weakly on purpose?
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On November 23 2012 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Since everyone agrees that either Syllo/Sandro is scum AND they can 'mindread' each other, why dont we ask them what they read about each other? Syllo, what is your read on Sandro and why? Sandro, what is your read on Syllo and why?
Where does 'everyone' agree on this at all?
sandroba has already quite clearly given his read on syllogism, read his filter. Acro has asked syllo to expand on his possible scumread on sandroba.
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On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope
I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say?
Why do you want this, Toad?
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On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to?
Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing.
If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on.
Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why.
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On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Show nested quote +Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people.
Perhaps I don't remember your play too well, then. Sure you do illogical things, and half the time I don't understand what your posts are saying, but usually they are part of some big show. I don't think I'm wrong to think this. There's a lack of HypnoToad so far, don't you think?
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On November 23 2012 00:34 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:19 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
Kitaman27 (4): Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, Toadesstern
Goodkarma (2): djodref, goodkarma
Sandroba (4): risk.nuke, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, kushm4sta
Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (5): Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, TheChronicler
Players who have yet to vote (9): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, Adam4167, sandroba
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I forgot to unvote. ##unvote: Sandroba ##Vote: goodkarma
risk, what makes you feel so good about goodkarma?
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On November 23 2012 00:38 Dienosore wrote:I hope I haven't committed suicide with this post :X Alright, guys. I've been doing a lot of watching these past 30~ pages or so. I've come up with this aggregate system that isn't based around calling people towny or scum, but rather personal interactions. Using my extraordinary abilities to decipher what people mean rather than what they say, I've drawn out what I think is turning out to be a very interesting relationship map, and here it is: + Show Spoiler +
I wanted more arrows t.t
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I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so.
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On November 23 2012 00:58 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:55 marvellosity wrote: I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so. i would currently oppose this you have not looked super town yet in my eyes. sorry buddy.
just you wait, i'll shout at a bunch of people and then you'll love it.
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On November 23 2012 01:00 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:55 marvellosity wrote: I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so. I thought you were lazy, why the change of heart?
because now i feel i want to, whereas before i didn't. no particular reason other than i'm feeling it more.
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yes kita, i don't want you elected at all.
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On November 23 2012 01:06 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 01:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 01:00 phagga wrote:On November 23 2012 00:55 marvellosity wrote: I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so. I thought you were lazy, why the change of heart? because now i feel i want to, whereas before i didn't. no particular reason other than i'm feeling it more. And why are the following quoted points no longer an issue for you? Show nested quote +Marv once wrote: Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet.
There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. Do you think now that you know best of everyone playing? If so, why don't you run for leadership today?
I'm not suddenly going to think I'm better than everyone else when I didn't before, no But I feel quite integrated into this game by now and this helps a lot with how I feel vis-a-vis running for party leader.
sandroba has question marks over his head by syllo. kitaman has done nothing to make me think he's town, plus i disagree with a few of his reads. Doesn't make him scum necessarily, but I don't trust him. syllo would as it stands get my vote next cycle too, but it might be best if power isn't that concentrated.
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EBWOP: and I don't really wanna stand for party leader today having made it clear i wouldn't. doesn't seem right, plus i don't think i'd get the support anyways.
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you're certainly doing it tedious, darling.
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I just wanna be party leader, ok? It's not something that I had to explain to myself in my head so explaining it in text is meh.
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On November 23 2012 01:29 Toadesstern wrote: Marv I really want to know what's inside your head right now. Interested in sharing some thoughts? I've seen you post quite a bunch, I've seen you mainly ask a bunch of questions that mostly had their purpose and that's fine but what's lacking is some sort of conclusion.
I think you said you don't want to vote for Kita. That's as much as it goes. You've got all those fancy questions and reactions from people that are supposed to be very interesting. And yet you're not putting some thoughts together explaining what you think is going on at all.
Would you mind doing a little of putting your thoughts together for me?
I just said why I don't want kita elected. If you have any specific questions, shoot. Otherwise I don't feel the need to explain what I think about everything under the sun.
One example for you. I asked syllogism about to Prome to see if what he thought aligned with what I thought at all. I had thought Prome's votes and explanations were somewhat off, and syllo agrees (despite me not saying beforehand what I thought). On the other hand, Prome was one of the players kita was thinking of taking in his team. Hence that strengthens my resolve for liking syllo and not kita.
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On November 23 2012 01:35 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 01:17 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 01:06 Dienosore wrote:On November 23 2012 00:51 Acrofales wrote: Why do you have the Scum? by my name, yet I don't appear in your scumreads based on this? If you'll look closely, it says Scum? not Scum. I'm not going to flat out accuse anyone who I'm not entirely sure of. But know my eye is on you, Acro. Oh and I know you have some secret relation with CaveJohnson. Dude, that's way cool, you found out! CaveJohnson is secretly my daddy. He's not very nice, though, he only gives me lemons to play with. I wish my mommy was here. In all seriousness. Based on what do I have this secret connection. I seem to be missing CaveJohnson's name in all the squiggly lines flying all over the place. And yes, I am trying to take this seriously, but having a really hard time of it. You sure you're not BillMurray smurfing? Your deflection of my accusation only reaffirms it in my mind. Being linked to CaveJohnson isn't a good thing, as he is looking pretty scummy from more than a couple angles, so maybe it's time for you to lay low if you want to take the heat off yourself (and there is much heat right now).
Your accusation had nothing to respond to. You made a statement "you are linked" without explaining why. That is not an accusation, that is an unquantifiable statement, if you do not explain it further.
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On November 23 2012 01:37 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 01:29 marvellosity wrote: I just wanna be party leader, ok? It's not something that I had to explain to myself in my head so explaining it in text is meh. Your hunger for power is not a sufficient reason for me to vote you. Au contraire, it makes me wary of your motives.
Good job I'm not running right now then, eh? :D
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On November 23 2012 01:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 01:29 marvellosity wrote: I just wanna be party leader, ok? It's not something that I had to explain to myself in my head so explaining it in text is meh. Assuming you cannot take any of the other candidates (kita, sand, syllo) with you, what's your party?
don't really wanna answer this right now.
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On November 23 2012 01:39 kitaman27 wrote: Who wants to take the time to verify that Dienosore's arrows are legit and not just random scribbles to maliciously fool us?! :p
I had a good stare at my name, being obsessed with myself and all, and it looked reasonably legit from what I could make out.
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It should be quite clear from my filter that right now I would lynch Cave if I were given the chance.
I am somewhat suspicious of Prome for basically the reasons syllo gave. The fact I disagree with kita's reads and I don't find him as insightful as I know he can be as town makes me suspicious of him too. I am also suspicious of Clarity because he's snippy and I don't know where he's going, plus what I said to him earlier where he seems to be doing very little to work out whether his vote is placed on the right person, having sheeped me earlier. I can't quite tell right now whether his whining about being accused for his 'playstyle' is more likely to be townie or mafia.
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Dieno, could you please explain how this necessarily means there's a link, just because he mentioned him?
Just as a counter-example, I asked Bio to comment on Cave and yourself, would that have counted as a 'link' also? If not, why not?
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On November 23 2012 01:51 Dienosore wrote: It was just strange to me that he goes from seeing him as a random unknown smurf to a pretty sure 3rd party with basically no face to face interaction.
Not the best of evidence, I admit. That's why it's a lightly drawn loopy line rather than big, bold and angry line.
ok. I'm quite happy for you to have your chart, because I think it's cute :D
But generally if you think/have analysed things, you'll need to find a better way to put them across to town, or people won't listen.
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On November 23 2012 02:04 Toadesstern wrote:okay got it, you're a hyprocrite.
how am I a hypocrite? I have explained quite clearly why I am voting my preferred candidate for party leader. My main goal for today, having decided not to run for party leader, was to get my chosen candidate elected, which I am succeeding at.
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On November 23 2012 02:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Oh, kush modkilled. He completely read his ability wrong too. He basically suicided.
The one good thing is all town people now have two data points when it comes to HP.
This needs to be made clear, please read this.
The ability is on PERCENTAGE HEALTH.
Thus if kush has 600 max HP and I have 50 max HP, kush still dies as we both have 100% HP.
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just emphasising.
What 2 data points were you referring to, though?
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On November 23 2012 02:32 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:25 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Oh, kush modkilled. He completely read his ability wrong too. He basically suicided.
The one good thing is all town people now have two data points when it comes to HP. This needs to be made clear, please read this.The ability is on PERCENTAGE HEALTH. Thus if kush has 600 max HP and I have 50 max HP, kush still dies as we both have 100% HP. From a town perspective, I'd think you would want it the other way around. Why wouldn't you brush over this fact and let the mafia team think you have tons and tons of hp if you are worried about being hit?
I prefer truth over deception to keep myself alive
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On November 23 2012 02:39 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:34 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:32 kitaman27 wrote:On November 23 2012 02:25 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Oh, kush modkilled. He completely read his ability wrong too. He basically suicided.
The one good thing is all town people now have two data points when it comes to HP. This needs to be made clear, please read this.The ability is on PERCENTAGE HEALTH. Thus if kush has 600 max HP and I have 50 max HP, kush still dies as we both have 100% HP. From a town perspective, I'd think you would want it the other way around. Why wouldn't you brush over this fact and let the mafia team think you have tons and tons of hp if you are worried about being hit? I prefer truth over deception to keep myself alive How would you have taken any damage anyways? That post by Kira seems nonsensical.
lol, hello omguser
personally i originally misread the % stuff as just meaning total hp.
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TheChronicler, own up. Who are you?
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On November 23 2012 02:46 Hapahauli wrote: Happy turkey day folks!
Anywho, I'm liking syllo and sandro alignment-wise, but I'm not going to vote until I see some teams proposed. I'm probably leaning towards syllo at this point based on his reent posts. However, as much as I respect syllo as a player, I'm not going to put blind-faith in his analysis by casting a vote for him now.
syllo said he would not reveal his team...
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On November 23 2012 02:51 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:47 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:46 Hapahauli wrote: Happy turkey day folks!
Anywho, I'm liking syllo and sandro alignment-wise, but I'm not going to vote until I see some teams proposed. I'm probably leaning towards syllo at this point based on his reent posts. However, as much as I respect syllo as a player, I'm not going to put blind-faith in his analysis by casting a vote for him now.
syllo said he would not reveal his team... Which is why I haven't voted him yet. I was under the impression that he may reveal his team later on in the cycle, and based on that I'll cast my vote.
where did you get that impression from? I thought he had stated quite clearly he would not.
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On November 23 2012 02:52 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote: I don't see why you would know your success modifier and why do you think 4 is low? I assume that is a third party claim, what do you claim your win con to be? I'm town sadly
you didn't answer any of his questions.
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whose claims have we had?
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As usual Drazerk is just making shit up as he goes along.
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Toad: that was Keirathi, as I just checked myself. Kei said he had a low success modifier and used 3 as an example.
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all that implies is that you're going to help throw the game for town, thus cementing your position as an awful player and humiliating yourself.
go ahead.
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I think we're better off ignoring Cave for now. From the games I've seen him in he plays anti-town regardless of his alignment and he seems to be doing the same here.
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hey Kei baby, how are those scum vibes going?
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it means Drazerk is lying.
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On November 23 2012 03:15 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote: hey Kei baby, how are those scum vibes going? Ringing pretty steadily. Maybe third party rather than scum though.
oh, what fun
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On November 23 2012 03:16 Keirathi wrote: Care to reciprocate?
I'm getting town vibes from myself.
In all seriousness, I don't think that much of you because I haven't really noticed you, apart from the oddity with the success modifier. If you're scum then I don't see what agenda you're pushing at all.
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Dienosore, partly in Djo's defence, in every game Djodref has played town in people have gotten scumvibes off him due to his peculiar use of language.
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On November 23 2012 03:30 kitaman27 wrote: There are plenty of people who have stated that a player is likely third party. At this point of the game it is quite silly to come to this conclusion. Most of the time it is just a justification made by a mafia player who knows an anti-town player can't be scum.
Do you have any updates on who you might take along with you on the ride, dearest?
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no thanks, s&b.
Hapa, I don't really care for why you oppose people, but I have no idea whether you are town or scum or not, so I could not vote you.
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On November 23 2012 04:08 syllogism wrote: I guess if Sandroba is mafia, what I said about marvel's play not making strategical sense from mafia point of view is moot. In addition, he doesn't seem worried about dying in the near future, considering his hp related remark and him already announcing that he may run for an election in the future. Regardless, it's not relevant now and I am not going to go through his filter to determine whether it makes sense content-wise. That's not important right now though and a content based evaluation has to be made when it is.
I've a team ready. Not entirely satisfied with it as usually figuring out 3 virtually certain townies is easier; perhaps it's the format or the players complicating things or me just not being familiar with a lot of people here. Around 4 hours until deadline, is this correct?
I find this quite curious given you corrected drazerk on something in the op and apparently asked the host about it. Why not just check the deadline yourself?
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On November 23 2012 05:01 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 04:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 04:08 syllogism wrote: I guess if Sandroba is mafia, what I said about marvel's play not making strategical sense from mafia point of view is moot. In addition, he doesn't seem worried about dying in the near future, considering his hp related remark and him already announcing that he may run for an election in the future. Regardless, it's not relevant now and I am not going to go through his filter to determine whether it makes sense content-wise. That's not important right now though and a content based evaluation has to be made when it is.
I've a team ready. Not entirely satisfied with it as usually figuring out 3 virtually certain townies is easier; perhaps it's the format or the players complicating things or me just not being familiar with a lot of people here. Around 4 hours until deadline, is this correct? I find this quite curious given you corrected drazerk on something in the op and apparently asked the host about it. Why not just check the deadline yourself? I don't understand your point here, how is something like that alignment indicative at all?
Because a conversational question you could easily find yourself seems somewhat out of character. Do I really have to connect the dots on why that could be alignment indicative?
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Prome, why do you tell us that you're sending in your night actions? :s
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what matters? it matters that we know you're sending in your night actions?
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regarding phagga, I liked how he took issue with my post about not running for party leader. He took issue with it in a really bizarre way, such that I can't see the mafia angle at the moment.
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On November 23 2012 05:56 Promethelax wrote: Marv: why aren't you being Marv?
Clarity: I'm asking you why you see Phagga as more town than GK, I get having GK null (my read on him is greenish but base don his meta more than anything else), I don't get why you, as opposed to Marv, would have a town read on him.
anyone could possibly have a townread on phagga for the reason I mentioned.
I find you suspicious because you first voted Acro while dismissing sand and not mentioning syllo. When later pressed you said that syllo wasn't a main candidate at the time, but you then sidestepped once again addressing his candidacy with the explanation that "you didn't like how much the thread was into sand/syllo". Someone being a popular vote does not make them a bad candidate, and it doesn't chime with how you said syllogism wasn't a serious candidate before.
I admit that part of my 'off' read on you may be because you're trying to change up your style of posting; that gave me an erroneous read on Z-bo last game too.
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What apologetic bullshit? What are you talking about?
It's certainly possible sandroba could be mafia, but I doubt syllogism is. But why does one of them 'have to be'?
Also I take a somewhat perverse pleasure that people like you and Kei don't know how to read me accurately still. Although it'd be easier if you simply found me town, of course.
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I never said I was being obviously town.
Depends how you describe utility. Mine being "get my preferred candidate elected". There aren't that many who can claim to have succeeded in that.
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On November 23 2012 06:12 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: What apologetic bullshit? What are you talking about?
It's certainly possible sandroba could be mafia, but I doubt syllogism is. But why does one of them 'have to be'?
Also I take a somewhat perverse pleasure that people like you and Kei don't know how to read me accurately still. Although it'd be easier if you simply found me town, of course. the "oh maybe I'm reading you wrong because you are trying to post differently" you don't have confidence in your read there which is something I expect from you. one of them has to be mafia because if neither of them was the mafia play d1 was useless and without goal. I've said this before but assuming that mafia wanted to be in the party one of Syllo/Sand is 100% mafia. The only way this is not true is if mafia did not want to be in d1 party. Sorry bro, I read you as scum right now; we'll see if I'm still bad or if maybe I can read you now.
yes, you're still bad. If you expected confidence in a read of mine like that then you're just mistaken in how you view how I play. I explained to you my read on you and the possible factors in it. I won't dress it up for your viewing pleasure.
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On November 23 2012 06:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv how do you feel about hapa possibly getting elected? How do you feel about syllo not wanting to share party members despite there being no downside since we know the mission happens before night actions.
I prefer syllo as I think he's town and I'm null on hapa. I'm not bothered by how syllogism tells us about his party, I'm fairly confident I can read into his choices either way.
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On November 23 2012 06:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:10 marvellosity wrote: I never said I was being obviously town.
Depends how you describe utility. Mine being "get my preferred candidate elected". There aren't that many who can claim to have succeeded in that. You haven't really done anything to push people towards voting syllo though. You just dropped a vote on him early, and then argued with people about other less important things. Yea, you argued pretty heavily against kita, but he never really had much support. I feel like if you were really trying to "get your preferred candidate" elected, you would have been talking to people voting for sandro and asking them why and trying to convince them that syllo was a better choice.
*looks at votecount*
why?
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On November 23 2012 06:17 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 06:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv how do you feel about hapa possibly getting elected? How do you feel about syllo not wanting to share party members despite there being no downside since we know the mission happens before night actions. I prefer syllo as I think he's town and I'm null on hapa. I'm not bothered by how syllogism tells us about his party, I'm fairly confident I can read into his choices either way. You don't think that if syllo is scum it would be easier for him to explain his choices after he sees how the mission turned out? Obviously he'll say he had a townread on all three, but he might explain WHY differently.
maybe? if the mission turns up failed then I will probably think syllogism is mafia, because a player of his quality should be able to pick out 3 town reads.
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Actually it could be argued that my vote made syllogism into a realistic candidate where he wasn't so much before. I don't mind so much if people don't think that, though.
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Keirathi, what is your goal for Day 1?
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On November 23 2012 06:29 Keirathi wrote: To win the event, and come out of it with solid reads.
Mine too!
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On November 23 2012 06:33 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:17 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 23 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 06:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv how do you feel about hapa possibly getting elected? How do you feel about syllo not wanting to share party members despite there being no downside since we know the mission happens before night actions. I prefer syllo as I think he's town and I'm null on hapa. I'm not bothered by how syllogism tells us about his party, I'm fairly confident I can read into his choices either way. You don't think that if syllo is scum it would be easier for him to explain his choices after he sees how the mission turned out? Obviously he'll say he had a townread on all three, but he might explain WHY differently. If you think Syllo is scum, why are you voting for him? Also, this would be a fucking ballzy move from a scum Syllo to pull. Between that and calling Sandro scum on D1? Fuck me. And yes, I have a town read on Syllo. While I don't much like the secrecy, I understand his reasons and feel he has enough experience to pull town through on this first day. If he doesn't, well, then we will definitely discuss that tomorrow.
It's quite interesting that sandroba hasn't really fought against the accusation really either.
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On November 23 2012 06:36 Keirathi wrote: Also for another reference of why this doesn't feel like town marv:
I called him useless. I would expect town marv to come up with some witty retort or maybe get "angry" (something along the lines of "I'm not the one being useless, babe. You are."). Not to explain why he has, in fact, not been useless.
Christ that's awful. You do me a disservice.
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you've talked to me plenty enough that you should be, dear ^^
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i've been meta reading s&b as town
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i wouldn't mind hearing from him why he thinks i'm town, though.
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oh yes, i forgot that you said before. ok.
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On November 23 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Marv:
His "disinterest" seems pretty null, as his "I'm not comfortable in themed games and I'm hoping to be lazy" is fairly similar to what I was thinking toward the beginning of the game. I'm pretty sympathetic to it.
That being said, marv seems waaaaay too comfortable with sheeping syllo at this point, and knowing the control-freak that marv is in mafia games, I'm having trouble connecting the mentality. I'm leaning scum on marv at this point.
Regarding SnB:
I think he's falling into his less-careful town meta a bit, and his posting style seems more similar to his town games (i.e. Mario Mini) rather than the more careful scumgames (Mafia LVII, DeathNote Mini). I'm leaning town on him, but these things can be faked as well. Definitely not someone I'd be comfortable putting in a party right now though.
check out bureaucracy. I even PMed syllogism after that game to ask his advice on stuff. Me voting for syllogism is entirely unsurprising. your entire point makes no sense because me liking control is definitely not something that i only do as town.
I don't see how I'm 'sheeping' him by the way. Unless everyone who is voting for someone who is not themself is 'sheeping'.
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Blind faith? I've stated clearly and more than once why I'm voting for him over other candidates. Anyways, there's not a lot of point arguing with you.
hey s&b, cutiepie. turns out playing with me the longest does have its benefits! <33333
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you're totes staying up Clarity and you know it.
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On November 23 2012 08:00 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 08:00 marvellosity wrote: you're totes staying up Clarity and you know it. SHUT UP I like to sleep, howcome it never happens?
because you like mafia too much <3
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Success!
Although, I was roleblocked.
And took quite a hit of damage.
:<
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On November 23 2012 09:02 Clarity_nl wrote: I took a small amount of damage, for what it's worth.
so you got a number too? i swear i'd read we wouldn't know how much our HP got hit by, but maybe it's different.
I may as well say, I got hit for 200 damage.
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Interesting that syllogism took Keirathi, by the way.
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Screw you all taking piddling amounts of damage. If mine was town inflicted I'm gonna be an unhappy bunny.
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On November 23 2012 09:08 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:07 marvellosity wrote: Screw you all taking piddling amounts of damage. If mine was town inflicted I'm gonna be an unhappy bunny. Did you attack me?
I don't have an attacked and I was roleblocked, so no.
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On November 23 2012 09:08 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv, are you willing to share your max hp? I guess you'll have to trust me on this.
I'd rather not just give out how much damage mafia needs to knock me out, no.
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On November 23 2012 09:10 Keirathi wrote: @marv: why are you surprised that he took me?
you weren't on my list of townreads, the other 2 were
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On November 23 2012 09:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Clarity, I dont want to lynch lurkers THIS CYCLE, but it could change. BioSC is a weird absence for being very excited in pregame though :/
I agree
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On November 23 2012 09:37 Hopeless1der wrote: If it is possible to clarify, if kush wasn't modkilled, he still would have died due to his ability, correct?
he did both. it says so.
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On November 23 2012 09:58 Clarity_nl wrote: I recall him saying something like that, maybe not? Dieno when you're around please let us know. Yeah, I'm not saying anyone on the party is a good lynch whatsoever, merely trying to speculate a bit.
Since when do you like speculating? ^_^
Given we have hidden success modifiers, this could influence how many mafia are needed in a team for a failure. Perhaps on average one mafia would result in failure; but if the other 3 townies all had particularly high success modifiers because it was their timeline or whatever reason, maybe mafia would need 2, or one of their own with a particularly high... failure? modifier.
That's my bit of speculation for the day :D
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On November 23 2012 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: EWBOP: My post was directed at hopeless/clarity/marv. Not chronicler :D
given i said i had done my speculating for the day and it was all of 3 lines long, you may go and screw yourself, sir.
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On November 23 2012 10:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Speculating what hidden modifiers scum has in comparison to town is pointless CAUSE we dont actually know anything about those modifiers. Yes it makes sense that out of a 4 man team, 1 scum would fail the mission but that was already brought up last cycle. We should focus on scum hunting and leaving the party members out of the discussion is better as it narrows down the pool in which to find scum. Yes I am biased because I am in the party.
excellent, except now the conversation about it is twice as long because you're ranting about it.
well done there.
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On November 23 2012 10:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:16 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 09:13 TheChronicler wrote:On November 23 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote: Good job. I'm wondering a bit why Deinosaur but it worked out fine.
Lynching Sandroba should be the way to go for today. Maybe Marv. Lol, nice soft defense. How is that a soft defense? I basicly said that I would not have picked Deinosaur, as in I didn't consider him to be a clear townie at all. I said I want Sandroba and Marv lynch. What part of that post is defending someone? How could you NOT have a town read on this guy? I'm boggled. He's like a transparent BillMurray.
must... resist... obvious answer....
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i think toad is more likely to be bad than mafia in this game
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On November 23 2012 10:32 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 10:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Clarity, no I did not take damage. Your question to me was interesting. I may look into it at a later date Someone suggested to use the same party every time we have to send a party, and I was wondering if it was viable. Quite interested in why you think I asked.
the fact that the party did not take damage (if they all didn't) isn't necessarily an indicator that they cannot take damage
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On November 23 2012 10:41 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 10:35 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 10:13 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 09:16 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 09:13 TheChronicler wrote:On November 23 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote: Good job. I'm wondering a bit why Deinosaur but it worked out fine.
Lynching Sandroba should be the way to go for today. Maybe Marv. Lol, nice soft defense. How is that a soft defense? I basicly said that I would not have picked Deinosaur, as in I didn't consider him to be a clear townie at all. I said I want Sandroba and Marv lynch. What part of that post is defending someone? How could you NOT have a town read on this guy? I'm boggled. He's like a transparent BillMurray. The BillMurray who's playing like and idiot from time to times (I'm trying to be nice), keeps on blackmailing people as a mad hatter so that noone lynches him and actually succeeds in doing so because people think there's no way he'd be that stupid as mafia so they think he's just really a stupid Drazerk-like townie. I have never ever figured out BillMurray in my life in a game of mafia with confidence and I played some games with him. Does that answer your question? Yes I'd agree the comparison you did isn't complete bullshit, hence my astonishment because I'd neither label any of those 2 transparent. Never ever. BM takes some figuring out, but I am fairly certain I can read him accurately now. This is like a completely transparent version of the same. I mean.. the notepad? That was just so... I dunno. I just cannot see a scum doing that ever in a million years. Add to that the clueless campaign and the nameclaim and I was pretty certain he was town. As my BM example was supposed to show, or any town-Drazerk game where he clames bulletproof, not roleblockable medic that is going to protect town-Vet-A so no other town medic has to protect him as a townie himself and thinks it's a good idea... there's plently of people I could see doing that, no matter of alignment. BM being the example for mafias doing that and Drazerk being the example for townies doing that kind of stuff with the 2 games I'm pointing at right now.
The fact that you cannot tell the difference between these examples and Denisore's play is telling enough in your ability to read alignments.
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On November 23 2012 10:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv is scum. He has 6666 posts at this time. lynch him.
shit. saved!
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Dinesore, no PMs means no communicating outside of the thread.
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On November 23 2012 11:13 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 11:07 Keirathi wrote:On November 23 2012 11:04 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 11:01 Keirathi wrote:On November 23 2012 10:53 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 10:41 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 10:35 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 10:13 Acrofales wrote: [quote] How could you NOT have a town read on this guy? I'm boggled. He's like a transparent BillMurray. The BillMurray who's playing like and idiot from time to times (I'm trying to be nice), keeps on blackmailing people as a mad hatter so that noone lynches him and actually succeeds in doing so because people think there's no way he'd be that stupid as mafia so they think he's just really a stupid Drazerk-like townie. I have never ever figured out BillMurray in my life in a game of mafia with confidence and I played some games with him. Does that answer your question? Yes I'd agree the comparison you did isn't complete bullshit, hence my astonishment because I'd neither label any of those 2 transparent. Never ever. BM takes some figuring out, but I am fairly certain I can read him accurately now. This is like a completely transparent version of the same. I mean.. the notepad? That was just so... I dunno. I just cannot see a scum doing that ever in a million years. Add to that the clueless campaign and the nameclaim and I was pretty certain he was town. As my BM example was supposed to show, or any town-Drazerk game where he clames bulletproof, not roleblockable medic that is going to protect town-Vet-A so no other town medic has to protect him as a townie himself and thinks it's a good idea... there's plently of people I could see doing that, no matter of alignment. BM being the example for mafias doing that and Drazerk being the example for townies doing that kind of stuff with the 2 games I'm pointing at right now. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between these examples and Denisore's play is telling enough in your ability to read alignments. thx, said the guy who wasn't able to make an educated guess about wether Keirathi outright claimed mafia in the thread or wether he was really concerned about leading the mission to failure with his (supposed to be) low hidden value. Did YOU give an opinion on if I was claiming scum in the thread or not? I don't remember you doing so. well I would have if I had considered it to be a mafiaclaim. I don't talk about townreads... So, you had a scum read on me, then i claimed something weird in the thread and that moved me to a town read? No, you said something I considered to be a weak mafiatreat early in the game. I mentioned it telling people you're scum trying to get people talking about stuff like that rather than having people talk about the set-up or townreads. Like I explained (go check my filter, I don't feel like searching that post because it's REALLY long time ago). You then proceeded to keep on playing agressive unlike the vast majority of people which made me go back to null-read (again, the first one was an ever so slight read I exaggerated on purpose, nothing I'd consider a read at all in general), maybe slightly leaning town. You then proceeded to either straight up claim third-party, mafia or incredibly concerned townie.
which?
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On November 23 2012 11:17 Dienosore wrote: Ah, well then I don't know what we should do... any ideas on how to make this work?
make what work dear? some town circle is impossible as all communication is in-thread only. Was there something else in particular you are trying to make work?
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I'd really like to hear more from kita and syllo in particular on sandroba.
sandroba is on the borderline for me, I've seen him less interested than this by far as scum and way more interested as town.
Apart from that, Bio's done nothing to make me think him town.
goodkarma's posts seem really constructed and to me he feels really detached, despite his long posts. But he does have quite a bit of content. Anyone have any thoughts on him?
Djo, I'll have to re-read your case to see if there's any merit in it, I've been feeling TheChronicler as town for most of the game.
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Yeah, TheChronicler's bad plan still seems more likely it would have come from a townie to me.
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On November 23 2012 22:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:23 marvellosity wrote: Yeah, TheChronicler's bad plan still seems more likely it would have come from a townie to me. @marvWhat do you make on his stances on "information" ? He promotes a plan to produce more information (that was the main goal of his plan) He doesn't want iamp to publicly state his town read on Dieno He votes syllo which plan wasn't really "information producing"-like at first glance This made me think that he didn't really think about his first plan, didn't really believe in it, so I took it as a fake plan. @TheChronicler: Are you a player named ghost rider ? What is your global experience on playing mafia on forums ?
I think at the time he was a well meaning but wrong townie. He pushed his idea for quite a while but eventually backed down from it when I framed it to him in a certain way.
I don't really understand what he was trying to achieve as scum. He is a name no-one recognises, and if he knew how things were likely to go down or had a scumteam that did, then the plan is obviously bad, because he was never going to be listened to.
I take your point that it could be "contributing to look townie", but why like that? It was so weird. I mean, maybe it's a massive double bluff and he's a super strong player playing the naive card or whatever, but I don't think so right now. I prefer the option of concerned but misguided townie who hasn't continued to shit up the thread with it for too long.
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On November 23 2012 22:51 Acrofales wrote: I was going to put some examples here, but I have a better idea that will let me figure out more about the unique capabilities of our squiggly line drawer :D
@Dienosore: I am starting to agree with you on the strangeness of some of GK's posts. However, I want you to explain a bit better what in GK's posts reads as contrived. We can compare notes afterwards. We will then use our combined powers to ascertain whether he is scum or not!
@everybody else: go ahead and do the same, but please let Dieno answer the question first. It was him who first mentioned this stuff.
Ok, but for what it's worth (something Dino won't know) BC and DrH pegged goodkarma as scum in... Palmar's normal (LVII?) for making a post that looked way too constructed.
I had a look at gk's filter in his town game in newbie XXIV before I made my post earlier, and I didn't feel quite so certainly about it as I thought I would have. XXIV is on the front page if you wanna have a look yourself.
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On November 23 2012 22:57 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 Djodref wrote:On November 23 2012 22:23 marvellosity wrote: Yeah, TheChronicler's bad plan still seems more likely it would have come from a townie to me. @marvWhat do you make on his stances on "information" ? He promotes a plan to produce more information (that was the main goal of his plan) He doesn't want iamp to publicly state his town read on Dieno He votes syllo which plan wasn't really "information producing"-like at first glance This made me think that he didn't really think about his first plan, didn't really believe in it, so I took it as a fake plan. @TheChronicler: Are you a player named ghost rider ? What is your global experience on playing mafia on forums ? I think at the time he was a well meaning but wrong townie. He pushed his idea for quite a while but eventually backed down from it when I framed it to him in a certain way. I don't really understand what he was trying to achieve as scum. He is a name no-one recognises, and if he knew how things were likely to go down or had a scumteam that did, then the plan is obviously bad, because he was never going to be listened to. I take your point that it could be "contributing to look townie", but why like that? It was so weird. I mean, maybe it's a massive double bluff and he's a super strong player playing the naive card or whatever, but I don't think so right now. I prefer the option of concerned but misguided townie who hasn't continued to shit up the thread with it for too long. @marvI'll see how he addresses my case then. As scum, I like to have bad ideas and to push them a lot. I don't really care if people tell me that's bad and that I should stop to shit up the thread with it and so on What do you think about his vote on syllo ? I didn't like the lack of explanations for it. Regarding GK, I found that his thought process was easy to follow and I like how his campaign posts were structured. His ticket for his party was reasonable and he withdraw his candidature at a good timing. I have a town read on him so far.
Yes, agreed, but compare Mario to what went down here. TheChronicler pushed his idea, a lot of people shat on it, he pushed it some more, I basically told him to stop, and then he actually did. Whereas you went on in Mario for literally days with your setup stuff, he didn't keep going on about it forever after. See what I mean?
Actually I agree with you his vote on syllo was weird. Especially given syllo was effectively pushing the opposite campaign platform to what Chronicler was suggesting (information/openness vs total secrecy), and that he was voting him almost out of spite to Cave. I'd like to hear more from TheChronicler why he decided to vote syllo in the end.
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Just to segue back to sandroba quickly, I think what I wanna see out of him today is how/why he decides to push whoever he does. As the most popular wagon right now he doesn't have the luxury of pushing himself ;p
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On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:06 Adam4167 wrote: In regards to my post to kita, I think it stands fine as it is. I am trying to figure out what the hell he is doing, because he claims to want to be taken seriously, but then posts a page of 'joke' reads and then campaigns as if they're perfectly acceptable. I am trying to ascertain if he is just goofing around, and I should ignore him, or if hes intentionally posting more garbage into this thread, something I think we can do without. I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns)Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3)
kita, I'd like you to expand on some things here. As you seem to know, Drazerk lies/trolls/does dumb stuff as either alignment, seemingly for his own amusement.
Nothing you've written here about him seems particularly alignment indicative for him, so why do you think he makes a good lynch? What makes him particularly scum rather than deranged townie?
Also, you say you "are still in favour of a sandroba lynch". I cannot find elsewhere you saying that you were in favour of a sandroba lynch, this looks like the first mention of it. As an oldschool player you should have some significant insight into his play, but there's none here. Explain yourself, please. Your whole post is very lazy indeed.
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On November 23 2012 23:29 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:28 strongandbig wrote: I'm voting Sandra I don't Luke his ignoring Sylvia case yestersay So you get to not be present in this game but not sandro ?? What the fuck with the double standards ?
it just means we'll hold him to a higher standard when he gets back.
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On November 23 2012 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont see a strong reasoning other than your own bias.. Sandro has quite a filter that we can analyse and is not a coin flip whether mafia/town. For example if BioSC was lynched right now, if he is town, we killed a town. If he is mafia , we got lucky.
From what Bio has posted, does anything give you indications he's town? Any thought process or stance?
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On November 24 2012 00:18 iamperfection wrote: So i went through biosc games and i have noticed that he tends not be an activity fiend to begin with in really all of his games so i dont know what to think of him anymore. I want to hear more from him before i pass judgement. Also he has disappeared completely once before (with justification) so couple that with thanksgiving today i don't really make that big a deal of him disappearing.
@MarvI on scale of 1 to 10 How important are you to town (this is a seerious question deall with it)
I'm always important to town, dear. Your question has a bunch of hidden implications that I'd much rather you came straight out with
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On November 24 2012 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote: marv is there anything in your colouring book that's significantly different than the general consensus?
On who would you say there's a "general consensus"? I don't really get this question.
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On November 24 2012 01:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 01:50 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote: marv is there anything in your colouring book that's significantly different than the general consensus? On who would you say there's a "general consensus"? I don't really get this question. I'd say sand is under the spotlight for being scummy, and all the party members and some others are considered townie. I'm just asking if you think you've noticed something that others might have not.
Well, I've mentioned my views on all of these people this cycle.
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On November 24 2012 02:55 Dienosore wrote: Okok, Im awake again.
I'd like to hear everyone's stance on a Robo roleclaim before the next party selection. Should Robo claim? When would be the best time for him to expose himself? Who should he replace on the team? Is it really worth exposing a strong member for the sake of him being there during the proper time period?
well?
not thinking about it right now, because it's totally irrelevant. Today we lynch scum. I suggest this is where you focus your energies.
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On November 24 2012 02:57 Dienosore wrote: One thing at a time, I guess.
you have open questions directed at yourself regarding goodkarma. Hoppity hop ^_^
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On November 24 2012 02:58 TheChronicler wrote: Wait what did I miss why does robo need to claim?
he doesn't, we're not discussing that today.
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On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote: Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count.
Haha. I've literally not been able to help myself considering sand/syllo/kita as some sort of superblock and I know that when I've found one of them scummier I've moved another down as less scummy for no reason.
One of the reasons I trusted in my vote in syllo was that sandroba called him definitely townie. Of all the possible alignments of the two of them, the only situation that would be worrying in is a sand/syllo scumteam, which I dismissed internally, for no particularly good reason... yeah.
Acro, syllo was town and sandroba was scum in Liar Game mafia, but it was a PM game so take what you will.
I am disquieted by syllo's lack of thread presence today, and I want kita to show up and answer for himself. sandroba we just gotta wait for atm.
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On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote: random fluff post, Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote: I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
I want an answer to this in particular. Stating you don't like giving out townreads as it gives scum targets when your plan was for people to give townreads to other people to give townreads for yet more people doesn't make sense. Explain, TheChronicler.
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Saying I look like that is worse than calling me scum.
:<
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On November 24 2012 04:20 Dienosore wrote: IDK if I'm town, but I win with town.
As for GK, he's popped up a couple times on my map, but the squigglies protruding and intruding his bubble are too varied for any reliable read right now. I havn't specifically examined him yet, so idk. My earlier leanings was scum, mostly because he attacked my credibility a few times for no real reason. Also, his demeanor was setting off some flags, but as many of you kindly have pointed out english isnt his first language.
No, that was Djodref. Get yourself together and make a proper analysis on GK.
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On November 24 2012 05:00 syllogism wrote: I'm usually vary of interpreting contradictions as an indication of someone being mafia as that depends a lot on the person question, but that one seems pretty bad. He hasn't really done anything other than propose his bad plan. A lot of posts and no useful content at all.
so you now think he could be scum, having agreed with me earlier he was more likely town?
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On November 24 2012 05:40 syllogism wrote: I was going to wait until tomorrow so I could see who people are pushing today without me, to an extent, locking down discussion. I don't think it's particularly working though and kita can't wait (whether he is town remains to be seen, but I don't think it's worth the gamble).
I'm fairly certain that sandroba is mafia. He hasn't done anything useful whole game long and he definitely could have. Everything that I've said about him before is still applicable. Even if he has been busy, it was by choice. No one forced him to run for election and he could have at any time dropped out and supported me. If he was town, I think he would have as soon as he figured out that I'm town.
Moreover, his attitude when he came back is still wrong. Instead of attempting to convince me or even address me, he just addresses everyone generally. He claims that I have been paranoid about his alignment in merc mini and that 80+ player game, but that is false or an exaggeration. In the huge game I was, in fact, pushing him for mayor on day 1 (we were both town). In merc mini I was only slightly suspicious because his ability completely broke the game, but I never wanted to lynch him at any point; the only suspicions were voiced over PM.
If he was town, he would be attempting to convince me, not play down my ability to read him accurately. To those who believe sandroba is town, what do you think mafia did on day 1? Who is mafia? Did they really have no one who could have ran and won? Do you think it's kita or acro were the mafia candidates then?
kita could be mafia, so yeah.
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On November 24 2012 05:45 syllogism wrote: None of the people who are pushing the idea that sandro is town are pushing kita lynch though (doesn't necessarily make them mafia, they could just be overlooking the fact).
Marvel do you think sandro is mafia?
I think kita for whatever reason isn't an easy target for this town to push. kita has had disproportionately little attention compared to sandroba. I find kita's play objectively considerably worse, for example his alternative lynch Cave and him giving his support to the sandroba lynch with no reasoning at all attached, plus his reads post from first cycle was ludicrous.
I'm not confident at all that sandroba is mafia. Obviously he's clever enough to fake things, but little bits like when he asked me who my top town reads amongst the newer players were - it's quite a random question and one that makes sense more from a town perspective than a mafia perspective. I dislike how he's not been here recently, real life or no, to push any reads. That's the most worrying.
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On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those.
what do you think of kita's play so far?
his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through?
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On November 24 2012 06:05 Dienosore wrote: I think it's time to finalize our scumbag picks.
Syllo, since you are running the show right now, can you give us 4 people to concentrate on?
no, it isn't
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On November 24 2012 06:07 Keirathi wrote:Why no one comment on Prom
I am still pretty concerned at Prome's alignment and your post makes sense.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on kita out of syllo though ;p
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On November 24 2012 06:09 Dienosore wrote: Oh and I gave up on my case for sand. I don't see anything extraordinarily alarming about him other than not being very active. This by itself is still VERY SUSPICIOUS behavior, but I think we have some other targets right now that are clearer.
who do you want to lynch, then?
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On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=1698416350 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke
do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play?
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On November 24 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote:On November 24 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote: A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those. what do you think of kita's play so far? his proposal of cave as a lynch candidate, his support with no reasoning for sandroba? some of his earlier reads that felt weakly thought through? I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely. Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question. Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=1698416350 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke do you think he has a decent chance of being mafia then? is sandroba more likely mafia to you simply because you are more intimate with his play? I wouldn't lynch kita today even if Sandro wasn't an option. I don't think the second question makes sense, but yes I can more accurately identify alignment of a player who I know extremely well.
uh, what I was getting at is this: I find kita's play scummier than sandroba's, but as you know sandroba so well you find it easier to discern sand's alignment.
I'm curious what you think kita has done to deserve NOT being lynched.
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kita has seemed awfully non-urgent about finding scum given he has until like now to try to guess the right lynch for today :/
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Acro darling, kita me up please.
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I didn't think much of it kita, Cave asked if I'd attacked him and I just replied that I couldn't.
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yes, sandroba definitely claimed taking damage and a roleblock.
syllogism claimed taking 50 damage.
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Your whole piece on Cave brings up valid points but boils down to: lynch the trolly guy if he continues to troll, even though it's still pretty much a coinflip at this stage.
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On November 24 2012 09:17 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 09:12 marvellosity wrote: Your whole piece on Cave brings up valid points but boils down to: lynch the trolly guy if he continues to troll, even though it's still pretty much a coinflip at this stage. Are you in favor of a truthful role claim from him, with the implication that we lynch him if things don't add up? We wouldn't be able to verify his claim, but it gives us a more informed decision, which outweighs the drawback in my opinion.
Of course I'd rather he told the truth fully, and it's tempting to lynch him just to get rid of him, but do you really think of all the players in the game he's the best chance of flipping scum in the 2nd cycle??
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On November 24 2012 20:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 20:34 Acrofales wrote: @Sandroba: a lot of the case against you is inspired by the idea that scum must have had someone in the running for party leader yesterday. Do you agree with this? And if it's not you, then who was it? I answered that already: kita. He got overshadowed by his lack of activity and the fact that everyone was supporting me or syllo right off the bat.
I've not seen any reasoning from you on why kita (or anyone else for that matter). What gives? You're not pushing anyone. Probably you only have to convince syllo, but this influential punter wants to know why you're not pushing your reads either?
Regarding Prome's interactions with me: I'm ok backing up Prome on this aspect of his play. As the target I didn't feel anything unnatural about it. I tend to have quite specific and different interactions with people.
I saw iamp mentioned, and I agree with keir/hapa. Was a townread early but waning.
Regarding my own play - I seem more interested on a lynch day than some party leader n stuff day? Go figure if that makes sense from what you know about me as a mafia (the game) player.
Today I need to research kita quite a bit to see if I'm being unfair with the standards I'm holding him to. I can't really get over right now how he said he supported a sandroba lynch (as if he always had) but had never mentioned it before and has never mentioned it again. syllogism's assertion that kita goes after easy targets hasn't helped.
On TheChronicler - just totally uninterested. I still don't really think he's scum and it's all a bit tedious.
From the way the game has progressed I get the impression that sandroba and kitaman aren't both town. And there are reasons for both to be scum. Now to find out which is the best lynch.
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sandroba, as you are here, please push your read(s).
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On November 24 2012 20:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyone else think that this is a setup by Sandro and Prome to 'verify' both their alignments? Lets go through the sequence of events, 1. Sandro posts that he is roleblocked. 2. Prome imply's that he did the roleblock and it had a special ability showing who the target attacked that cycle. 3. Sandro then claims the ability, Shadow and says he targeted Syllo, which basically again, imply's that Sandro is town.
Some scenarios with these two players did cross my mind, but I don't want to speculate too much right now.
Suffice to say if we lynched sandroba and he flipped scum, this would not make Prome necessarily town.
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On November 24 2012 21:39 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 20:57 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 20:38 sandroba wrote:On November 24 2012 20:34 Acrofales wrote: @Sandroba: a lot of the case against you is inspired by the idea that scum must have had someone in the running for party leader yesterday. Do you agree with this? And if it's not you, then who was it? I answered that already: kita. He got overshadowed by his lack of activity and the fact that everyone was supporting me or syllo right off the bat. I've not seen any reasoning from you on why kita (or anyone else for that matter). What gives? You're not pushing anyone. Probably you only have to convince syllo, but this influential punter wants to know why you're not pushing your reads either? Is not pushing reads a scumtell? Especially if so blatantly obvious about it?
if i ask myself what town sand and scum sand would be doing in this situation, yeah, it's a scumtell.
I understand far less why town sandroba isn't pushing anyone.
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On November 24 2012 21:52 syllogism wrote: Stop distorting the case against him Acro. I seem to be trying to read sandro as if I'm skyping with him? That's completely nonsensical.
You don't feel sandro is not playing any different? How about the fact he has done or said nothing useful at all whole game long. Not a single read; just throwing a name out there with no reasoning is not a read. Failure to construct reads is fairly in line with what? Is the sandro you know completely useless? The little time he has devoted to the game has centered around him defending himself rather than doing something actually useful.
Despite the amount of seeming effort you are putting into the game, your defense of Sandro is starting to feel quite suspicious.
what do you make of sand's point about his party selection?
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On November 24 2012 21:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 21:44 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 21:39 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 20:57 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 20:38 sandroba wrote:On November 24 2012 20:34 Acrofales wrote: @Sandroba: a lot of the case against you is inspired by the idea that scum must have had someone in the running for party leader yesterday. Do you agree with this? And if it's not you, then who was it? I answered that already: kita. He got overshadowed by his lack of activity and the fact that everyone was supporting me or syllo right off the bat. I've not seen any reasoning from you on why kita (or anyone else for that matter). What gives? You're not pushing anyone. Probably you only have to convince syllo, but this influential punter wants to know why you're not pushing your reads either? Is not pushing reads a scumtell? Especially if so blatantly obvious about it? if i ask myself what town sand and scum sand would be doing in this situation, yeah, it's a scumtell. I understand far less why town sandroba isn't pushing anyone. Are you pushing anyone? You're pressuring people, but I don't get the opinion that you have made up your mind on anybody you think is scum. You are not pushing your reads much either. Is that a scumtell for you? How about Kita? Toad? Why single Sandroba out of the veterans who are not currently pushing their scum reads?
Don't be dense, I've been pursuing kita for some time now even if I haven't made a formal case/vote.
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On November 24 2012 21:59 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 21:54 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 21:52 syllogism wrote: Stop distorting the case against him Acro. I seem to be trying to read sandro as if I'm skyping with him? That's completely nonsensical.
You don't feel sandro is not playing any different? How about the fact he has done or said nothing useful at all whole game long. Not a single read; just throwing a name out there with no reasoning is not a read. Failure to construct reads is fairly in line with what? Is the sandro you know completely useless? The little time he has devoted to the game has centered around him defending himself rather than doing something actually useful.
Despite the amount of seeming effort you are putting into the game, your defense of Sandro is starting to feel quite suspicious. what do you make of sand's point about his party selection? I think town sandro would realize that it is completely meaningless as he never had to select a party and it's quite likely that just one mafia is under normal circumstances enough to cause the mission to fail, and therefore he wouldn't attempt to use something like to defend himself.
yes, that's kinda obvious now you say it.
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On November 24 2012 22:11 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 21:50 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 21:44 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 21:39 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 20:57 marvellosity wrote:On November 24 2012 20:38 sandroba wrote:On November 24 2012 20:34 Acrofales wrote: @Sandroba: a lot of the case against you is inspired by the idea that scum must have had someone in the running for party leader yesterday. Do you agree with this? And if it's not you, then who was it? I answered that already: kita. He got overshadowed by his lack of activity and the fact that everyone was supporting me or syllo right off the bat. I've not seen any reasoning from you on why kita (or anyone else for that matter). What gives? You're not pushing anyone. Probably you only have to convince syllo, but this influential punter wants to know why you're not pushing your reads either? Is not pushing reads a scumtell? Especially if so blatantly obvious about it? if i ask myself what town sand and scum sand would be doing in this situation, yeah, it's a scumtell. I understand far less why town sandroba isn't pushing anyone. Are you pushing anyone? You're pressuring people, but I don't get the opinion that you have made up your mind on anybody you think is scum. You are not pushing your reads much either. Is that a scumtell for you? How about Kita? Toad? Why single Sandroba out of the veterans who are not currently pushing their scum reads? Don't be dense, I've been pursuing kita for some time now even if I haven't made a formal case/vote. Yeah. You've been pressuring him. I have not gotten the feeling ever that you have made up your mind yet. That's okay, I haven't made up my mind yet either. But calling Sandroba out for not having made up his mind and pushing his read is hypocritical. I do find his lack of thread presence disconcerting. In all games I have played with him, his thread presence (or PM presence in SSM) has been commanding. However, RL issues are a good reason for lack of thread presence.
ok, fair enough, it is somewhat hypocritical. But I've clearly been pursuing targets harder than sand whichever way you look at it, plus he's up for the lynch and I'm not.
I don't understand the lack of urgency at all.
Real life issues or not, sandroba has not been impactful when he HAS been here.
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Toad, it's funny how you've called me scum like 50 times, but the only explanation you've given at all is that me/my posting seems "off".
Sincerely, Someone-not-terrible.
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On November 24 2012 23:14 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 23:03 marvellosity wrote: Toad, it's funny how you've called me scum like 50 times, but the only explanation you've given at all is that me/my posting seems "off".
Sincerely, Someone-not-terrible. I wouldn't say 50 times. And no the explanation I've given is that you're usually better than what you're showing. I really disliked your d1 performance. I really disliked the points you were pointing out d1, like when I was voting Kita and you kept on harping about it like you're some guy in his 2nd game who never had a game with me. I really dislike the fact that you're not so much involved early on, like you did in whatever-the-name-was-the-one-were-I-was-mason and turned out to be mafia as well. Can't say much about your d2 performace right now because again, I'm still catching up.
I didn't want to go there, because it didn't seem worth it, but you've been straight out lying about LV all game. Mainly to make yourself look better.
You excuse yourself in LV for inviting me into your mason chat as either "you were trolling" or there were 2 kenpachi-like people left to invite.
This is simple false. You invited me BEFORE confirmed town EchelonTee, because I appeared so town to you, and BEFORE extremely townie newbie austinmcc. You invited me because your read on me was wrong and you thought it was the useful thing to do.
Given I replaced in night 1 LV, and pushed a scum straight away who got modkilled, I was viewed as town from very early and that remained the case throughout the game. So saying "I wasn't so much involved early on" is once again a flat out lie.
Just to dig the boot in, mafia (me/wiggles) left you alive that game, despite you were confirmed town, for many many cycles because you were so completely and utterly useless.
Stop referring to games where you've managed to talk yourself into having a really rosy view of the outcome when in reality your read on me was 100% wrong and you got completely outplayed, and left alive by scum for being an irrelevance. And stop lying about it now.
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Also I found this and it made me lol in relation to this game.
On January 06 2012 15:13 kitaman27 wrote:
As maifa, I also have a habbit of trolling because it is so easy to do.
On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 07:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote: Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all. Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do. THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba!I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks PartyMore to come. Stay tuned!
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find me proof of saying that because again i think you're making shit up.
in the postgame i just basked in everyone saying how awesome I was, as far as i recall.
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On November 24 2012 23:34 Clarity_nl wrote: How is this relevant to the current game? Toad are you trying to make a meta read on marv without making an actual read?
it's relevant because Toad just says random shit without basis and I've decided to completely discredit him for it.
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Anyway, back on topic.
From looking at past-games, my suspicions on kita are confirmed to what I thought before - he's much more useful and insightful as town than as scum (as well as that little nugget up there ).
I will try to draw that into a logical case containing shit from this game after lunch.
I also need to work out if I'm actually opposed to sandroba's lynch, or if I'm just more in favour of a kita lynch.
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On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, still frustratingly null on Kita too. The most damning things about him are that he ran for leader and wants to lynch Drazerk. It is just so... circumstantial. He *should* know better about Drazerk, who trolls, fakeclaims and makes himself as useless as possible in every game he's in, regardless of alignment.
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. Other than that I am unsurprised about Kita running.
His stance on Sandroba seems sensible, and he voiced many of the suspicions I have of risk.nuke.
you can't be serious. He hasn't taken a stance other than to say he doesn't mind lynching him, which is incredibly weak.
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On November 25 2012 00:09 Acrofales wrote:
The bolded statement feels INCREDIBLY forced. As if he is intentionally playing down Sandro's skill at playing scum to make it fit in with his case. Given that everybody and their brother is looking at Sandro to push his reads, don't you think a scum Sandro would have done so by now?
Don't you think a town sandro would too?
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On November 25 2012 00:41 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 00:34 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 00:09 Acrofales wrote:
The bolded statement feels INCREDIBLY forced. As if he is intentionally playing down Sandro's skill at playing scum to make it fit in with his case. Given that everybody and their brother is looking at Sandro to push his reads, don't you think a scum Sandro would have done so by now? Don't you think a town sandro would too? Yes. That means it is not indicative of alignment and thus implying that it is, is FORCED.
in my opinion a town sandroba would be far more interested in pushing his reads and leading town to the correct lynch than a scum sandroba, whether scum sandroba "should be" or not.
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kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch?
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On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote: kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits?
I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen.
As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment.
Does this not make it a policy lynch?
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On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote: kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke?
I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so
"Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays."
which at least indicates a read of some sort.
Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this).
It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all.
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On November 25 2012 01:46 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote: kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb.
I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago.
Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town.
Don't bullshit me, please.
On November 25 2012 01:11 kitaman27 wrote:
I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.
You are not voting for sandroba nor have you given indications that is where you vote will end up.
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kita obviously picked sandroba.
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On November 25 2012 01:57 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote:Don't bullshit me, please. On November 25 2012 01:11 kitaman27 wrote:
I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.
You are not voting for sandroba nor have you given indications that is where you vote will end up. lol that's not my post. It got copied into mine from a quote copy/paste -_- @Toad, no I haven't decided yet. I have one more group of people I want to look into first.
well, the part i was asking you not to bullshit me about was your play in Storm re: RoL compared to Cave here...
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On November 25 2012 01:58 Dienosore wrote: Just seems strange to me that Kita is gathering all this hate, yet no one is backing it up with their lynch vote.
are you going to sit there commentating like a useless buffoon, or actually contribute?
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what toad?
kita will have guessed the lynch, but he's putting on a show for us deciding who he wants to lynch with his vote...
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On November 25 2012 02:04 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:59 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:58 Dienosore wrote: Just seems strange to me that Kita is gathering all this hate, yet no one is backing it up with their lynch vote. are you going to sit there commentating like a useless buffoon, or actually contribute? If you're asking me to build a case on someone, I unfortunately don't have the time right now. All I'm trying to do is lay out the facts with my maps and try to catch someone contradicting themselves. Hopefully I can spur some discussion with my revelations, because right now everyone is kind of talking around circles. The same people are calling the same people scum, yet still voting for sandro anyway.
Except you're not providing insight into anything, you're just summarise. Why not give your viewpoint on the arguments going on? you're not laying out any facts except your own interpretations which we're not really party to.
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kitaman27
There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign.
On November 21 2012 10:57 kitaman27 wrote: I'd like to nominate myself as our heroic leader!
The success of these missions appear to carry significant weight and it's something I'd want direct control over. A successful day one will make each of the following days that much easier. I think these mechanics play to my strengths, which is identifying pro-town players early on. I promise to be active and open and not disappear once elected *shakes fist at wiggles*
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Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3
Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 07:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote: Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all. Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do. THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba!I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks PartyMore to come. Stay tuned!
So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature?
His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this.
Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote:I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote: There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nukeBesides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbigHis opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4staI'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself.
These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time.
His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum:
On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:06 Adam4167 wrote: In regards to my post to kita, I think it stands fine as it is. I am trying to figure out what the hell he is doing, because he claims to want to be taken seriously, but then posts a page of 'joke' reads and then campaigns as if they're perfectly acceptable. I am trying to ascertain if he is just goofing around, and I should ignore him, or if hes intentionally posting more garbage into this thread, something I think we can do without. I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3)
Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum?
+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by. I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote: [quote]
You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.
1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.
Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote: I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote: Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 04:58 Hapahauli wrote: yaaaaay another sheeper.
Well I hope that Syllo is town for our sake I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched.
He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here:
On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote: kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb. I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago. Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town. Don't bullshit me, please.
In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here.
For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has.
On November 24 2012 08:04 kitaman27 wrote:
Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come.
On November 24 2012 09:11 kitaman27 wrote:
My remarks on sandroba proved to be quite accurate. He disappears and here we have people screaming that it exactly matches his scum meta of being lazy, while we have other people that are convinced that his absence is something he would never do as scum. I'll be looking at him next most likely..
There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember:
On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:
I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns)
Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game.
To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum.
##Vote: kitaman27
Having said all this I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch.
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On November 25 2012 02:57 TheChronicler wrote: Lol djo so scummy. Finally got people to move off sand, better go for it bud!
All I see you doing is calling Z-bo scum repeatedly in an omgus fashion and now you're randomly calling Djo scum.
Shape up if you're town.
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look, can people leave the lecturing to me
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On November 25 2012 03:00 Djodref wrote: @marv
Let's assume that you are right and that kita is scum and nit lying about the guessing game. What do you make with the fact that he looks afraid of dealing with sandroba ?
Hint: check also VE post when he entered the thread
Hey Djo, spell it out for me please dear.
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On November 25 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote: @Marv: only half of your case is decent, which is disconcerting to me. Please explain the scum motivation for Kita treating his own campaign as a joke.
better than 0% of your face being decent. booooooooooooooom!
your point, I imagine, is that a scum kita would also want to win the election. The troll post I spoilered is basically an admission of defeat. But it serves him better to look although he's still staying in the running (indeed he has said on a few occasions that he hasn't trolled MUCH, that was the only real one, etc.). It's useful to have confusion in the thread, to have confusion in the votes, it's useful not to properly have to take stances on the other main candidates because you can go "i'm running, vote for me!". Effectively it's a sidestepping of taking responsibility for anything under the guise of running for party leader. Again, given the importance he stated of him having party leader for the good of town, his subsequent attemps to secure it do not match up (see "people he would not take" post I spoilered in my case as an example)
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On November 25 2012 03:10 VisceraEyes wrote: My daughter is having a princess tea party for her fifth birthday. This kita wagon popped up out of nowhere, and while I want to get to the bottom of it, I really have to go. :/
@Marv Your case is the most recent and it's making at least a little sense without me going to filter the guy. I looked at Kita early on because of his bullshit campaign post and found trolly kita - not really alignment indicative...but yeah, this Draz thing and the fact that he keeps dancing around Sandroba is especially damning if you subscribe to the sandScum theory.
My problem with it is this: if Sandroba is scum and Kitaman is scum too, then why would they run against each other for leader?
Why not? 2 people running means at any point you can pull out and lend your support to the other guy if it seems like that's the best course of action. That kinda bs happens in politics all the time.
Bear in mind at the beginning of the day syllogism and me are very real party leader options. Like, scum could choose one scum to run, but they could choose 2 as well. Why not?
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On November 25 2012 03:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes didnt get sniped by VE :D. Have fun :D
I totally agree with marv on kita at this point. Should we let Sandro slide on the basis of if he is town, he is brillant. or should we vote Sandro because he has done nothing that benefits town so far.
kita is very strong as town too.
Actually I failed to talk about this in my case and I should have, although I have mentioned it elsewhere this game. I usually find kita strong, insightful, and powerful as town - this was reaffirmed reading Storm and LV. Here his push on CJ, repeatedly, and other shit like that feels weaker.
You don't let anybody slide on the basis of how good they might be as town. Honestly they both have a decent chance of flipping scum at the moment, and you should vote for who you think is likeliest to flip scum.
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On November 25 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote: TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads. 2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either. 2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town. 3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right. 4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it. I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum.
He could be scum, but he could be town. I think kita and sand both have significantly higher chances of flipping scum. If TheChronicler continues to be useless in the coming days, I'll look at him again. I just don't think he's the best lynch for today.
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On November 25 2012 03:40 Dienosore wrote: I'm going to be rather afk from now until the vote. Going to go ahead an lock something in. As far as I can tell, the three big candidates for the gallows are looking like either Sandroba, Kitaman, or TheChronicler. I'll delay my afk-ness for as long as possible so these three can make one last case for me why they shouldn't get my vote.
Rather than proving someone else is scum, I'd like for them to prove their innocence.
Have it it, boys. I don't have much time left. If none of you reply to this, then im going to have my sister who has no idea what mafia is to randomly pick one of your names.
This is ludicrous. I am town and I have no idea how I would go about 'proving my innocence' to you if I wanted to try.
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On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote: I explained why Cave has to die, I explained why I am on the fence about sandroba, I explained why I have a scum read on nuke (which you don't even bring up).
You mention that I haven't been drawing on past games with my drazerk case. I read through pokemafia and aperture yesterday and steamship/one of the normal games today. I could bring up a bunch of examples of how he fake claims and posts nonsense, but that's common knowledge. I am well aware of the fact that he has a history of doing this as town. To me, the difference comes down to motivation. At the current point, I don't see how his post benefits town, rather than personal amusement. He has responded a couple times to my questions and completely dropped off the map.
Why do you ignore the 200 damage that I've been targeted with in your case. Do you think this is a town ability or that I'm lying about it?
Everyone wants Cave to die, what you didn't do is explain why he is scum. Do you actually get a sense from these other games that he ever posts to benefit town? If so, could you provide examples, because I've never been able to see it.
I ignored the 200 damage because I have no way of telling whether it's a town ability, you're lying about it, or you're town after all targeted by scum, so I see no point in speculating about it.
Same with sandroba's damage and roleblock. I have no way of verifying that either.
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Although, kita, I will agree with you on this - Prome's absence is completely disgraceful given his earlier revelation and the fact that sandroba is the main wagon. That's pretty much completely unacceptable, whatever real life excuses he'll give us.
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It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.
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The thing is, kita, we're like 4 hours from lynch and yet you've never actually pushed to get anyone lynched.
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On November 25 2012 04:03 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote: It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying. Giving yourself a way back onto sandroba?
I already gave myself a way back on to sandroba, quite openly, and said I would be happy to lynch him.
What is the point of these pathetic little snipes at everybody?
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On November 25 2012 04:02 Clarity_nl wrote: A lot of people haven't, why does this condemn him but not others? This is not a defense of him, just curious.
because most people are useless and kita is not
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TheChronicler, seriously, what drugs are you on?
Are you purposefully being a useless sack of crap? Just curious.
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On November 25 2012 04:11 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:08 marvellosity wrote: TheChronicler, seriously, what drugs are you on?
Are you purposefully being a useless sack of crap? Just curious. Probably just seeing something where there's nothing. Def don't trust clarity anymore.
All your play. You just snipe at people. You said I wanted outs to back off my kita case, when in the same post I made my kita case I said I would be happy to vote sandro too. If you have something worthwhile to say it, present it, otherwise stop sniping.
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On November 25 2012 04:12 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:01 marvellosity wrote: The thing is, kita, we're like 4 hours from lynch and yet you've never actually pushed to get anyone lynched. I think I've made it quite clear that I would be in favor of a cave, sandroba, or nuke lynch. This becomes only sandroba if prom ever returns to reveal his night interactions. Hope I'm leaning scum, but I don't think there is enough to go by yet.
there is a massive difference between being 'in favour' of a lynch and pushing a lynch candidate.
You are 'in favour' of a sandroba lynch yet you say you are on the fence.
You are 'in favour' of nuke yet you do not push him.
You are 'in favour' of a Cave lynch yet you have not in any way demonstrated how his play makes him scum rather than just a troll.
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On November 25 2012 04:17 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:12 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 04:11 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 04:08 marvellosity wrote: TheChronicler, seriously, what drugs are you on?
Are you purposefully being a useless sack of crap? Just curious. Probably just seeing something where there's nothing. Def don't trust clarity anymore. All your play. You just snipe at people. You said I wanted outs to back off my kita case, when in the same post I made my kita case I said I would be happy to vote sandro too. If you have something worthwhile to say it, present it, otherwise stop sniping. What else can I do. I'm on a phone.
Stop posting until you have coherent thoughts to present. I don't care if you're on the phone, you're not helping anyone or anything.
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On November 25 2012 04:27 kitaman27 wrote:Silly Brit spells favor wrong I am on the fence on sandroba. I don't see how you couldn't be considering how little content he has given us. However, due to my thoughts about the claimed kp and roleblock and his disinterest, yes I would be fine with seeing him lynched. I don't see how you can criticize me for my position, when you're in the exact same spot. I've brought up my case against nuke, explained why his response is inadequate, and asked you to take a look at my case. I considered voting for him, but there is still the prom thing I'd like to hear back on. Cave is getting a lot of push back, which shouldn't be happening when he goes incognito after gaining the spotlight. I shot him last night. I received no damage in return. His story about trying to bring out the chef is nonsense. Furthermore, he was protected last night. He received only half damage from my shot. Either he has a defensive role, which doesn't fit in with his reflective damage claim or another player is protecting him, which seems ludicrous unless he was scum.
Interesting. I will have to cogitate because my first inclination is to believe this.
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Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple?
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On November 25 2012 04:34 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:32 marvellosity wrote: Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple? Not saying.
I'll put it another way. If your only ability is a 1-shot 50HP shot, that would be a complete load of bullcrap :p
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I wonder where syllo is in all this.
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On November 25 2012 05:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 04:30 marvellosity wrote: Interesting. I will have to cogitate because my first inclination is to believe this. Where do you stand with Cave now. Do you still see him as null and someone who should be left alone?
I want Cave to answer for himself as he appears to be somewhat in the thread.
Cave, what say you to what kita claimed (a shot on you that went through at half HP).
Unlike Acro/others I'm perfectly happy sheeping syllogism if it comes down to that. I prefer a sandroba lynch to a Toad lynch.
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that he's useless and uncharacteristically quiet for either alignment.
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the fact that I can't see the motivation for either alignment doesn't lead me to believe necessarily that it's scum motivated like you Acro.
If sandroba didn't exist I would be considering it more strongly, especially as kita doesn't appear to be an option and after his revelation i'm not entirely sure I want kita to be an option.
##unvote anyways
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On November 25 2012 06:40 kitaman27 wrote: An option we have is to put the lynch on someone like cave, nuke, hopeless or thechronicler, switch back to sandroba if he shows up within the last hour, or nuke him tonight if the switch back is unsuccessful.
Are people willing to switch?
i'm not playing to modkill. in syllo i trust.
##vote: sandroba
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On November 25 2012 06:49 CatNzHat wrote: ## Vote: risk.nuke
...
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On November 25 2012 07:41 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 07:40 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 07:36 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:35 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 07:18 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:17 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 07:14 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:10 Djodref wrote:On November 25 2012 07:08 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:08 iamperfection wrote: [quote] almost as silly as pointing it out Pointing it out does nothing once its already out there Would you like to share something with wrt your abilities ? Something that we could confirm tomorrow ? Not without giving away which one I'm using and who I'm targeting with which I don't want to do right now. So I guess you'll have no problem with calling you full of shit tomorrow ^^ I'll probably be dead to be honest Drazerk just claimed scum. Please do tell me how I did that When you are scum you whine about how you will be shot by scum for having whatever outrageous role you claim (HRM springs to mind immediately). Town I have not seen you do this ever. What have I told you about applying meta to me BAD ACRO BAD
you're not beyond behavioural patterns, especially if you don't know they exist.
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I'm coming round to Cave being scum, I think. This heroic martyring act is ridiculous.
Not for today, though.
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On November 25 2012 07:48 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 07:46 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:46 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 25 2012 07:44 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 07:43 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 25 2012 07:42 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I'm saying I'll be killed by town not scum etc this time. Yet you never tried to talk anyone out of it. Ugh. I was dead as soon as I had to role claim to save acro / snb You think you saved acro and snb by roleclaiming? Saved them from what? They was drawing heat since they knew my identity due to my posting style. Better the life of 2 than 1 We were? Why was I not informed? You leaking info from your QT?
Acro, I'll tell you what it is and you'll laugh.
You were talking to Cave a few times and then you guessed Cave was Drazerk, and... Dinesore said you had a 'connection'.
That's the 'heat' he's talking about as there has been no other. ha.
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that was you just being an idiot. you bringing it up like you are now like you were oh so brave is what does it for me. probably.
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seriously, my role is totes shit.
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On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote:hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1? + Show Spoiler +sorry about my play sensei, I will do better
I'm basically a medic type role. I reduce incoming HP by half on the target player (or in 600 AD, 2 players).
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incidentally this is why I was fairly believing of kita earlier, because he claimed his shot on Drazerk only did half damage.
Obviously these actions were nothing to do with me, but the 50% resonated with my role.
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On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote:^_^ I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_- Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote:hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1? + Show Spoiler +sorry about my play sensei, I will do better I'm basically a medic type role. I reduce incoming HP by half on the target player (or in 600 AD, 2 players). So Cave trolls it up to attract kp, syllo is bussed with cave, and syllo takes my hit, while cave gets protected.
you mean tonight?
I was roleblocked night 1 remember.
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maybe Prome. But I didn't want to be party leader at the time and I can't exactly force my way on to the team in any other way.
Also Prome - yes the roleblocks. But that's actually a valid scum strat. If scum can bus, then a scum Draz attracting KP could be very dangerous for town.
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On November 25 2012 09:45 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 09:42 Promethelax wrote: the roleblocks buddy, the roleblocks. Neither of those things went through. Ah guess so. So there is a second 50% damage medic running around, possibly on the mafia team? Also, I guess it does make sense to reveal the mechanics for this cycle's game. If hapahauli, oatsmaster, or phagga vote for me, I have to choose between damaging them for a small amount or myself for a large amount.
lol, interesting. interesting.
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On November 25 2012 09:49 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 09:48 Promethelax wrote:On November 25 2012 09:46 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 25 2012 09:42 Promethelax wrote:On November 25 2012 09:37 marvellosity wrote: incidentally this is why I was fairly believing of kita earlier, because he claimed his shot on Drazerk only did half damage.
Obviously these actions were nothing to do with me, but the 50% resonated with my role. interesting. So I am the only RBing role in the game. Or the only one activated n1. I assume some people have multiple abilities and not all would necessarily use the rb, where is the glory in that? Marv, if you are a 600 character why didn't you try harder to get in the team d1? Didn't you feel that since your ability got a bonus your hidden modifier would too? On November 25 2012 09:40 kitaman27 wrote:^_^ I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_- Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence. On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote:hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1? + Show Spoiler +sorry about my play sensei, I will do better I'm basically a medic type role. I reduce incoming HP by half on the target player (or in 600 AD, 2 players). So Cave trolls it up to attract kp, syllo is bussed with cave, and syllo takes my hit, while cave gets protected. the roleblocks buddy, the roleblocks. Neither of those things went through. Draz: why are you thanking me for my ability? What did it do benefit you? If anyone was only targeting me surely they would of been roleblocked? or am I misunderstanding the role if anyone targets the player I used it on they are roleblocked. I didn't use it on you though. why do you think that I did? Oh I thought it was game wide
does that mean you got roleblocked at some stage?
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I'd like to hear who everyone in the previous party wants to take with them. I don't trust any of your reads like I trust syllo's ;p
Otherwise I'm open to being party leader, I would take 2 of the previous party with me plus some other awesome townie dude.
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On November 25 2012 10:33 TheChronicler wrote: Ebwop: that was my n1, btw. Not last night.
why did you choose those 2 players?
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On November 25 2012 15:37 Clarity_nl wrote: I took 30 damage, same as Djo. And we both took 20 damage last night. I'm willling to guess we'll take 40 damage tonight. Anyway, marv I'm guessing you only got notified of any damage you took?
Catching up on the thread atm. I took no damage last night, but I was healed.
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And to whoever asked, I targeted syllo last night.
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On November 25 2012 19:11 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 09:34 Promethelax wrote:hey Marv, baby, why did you target Syllo n1? + Show Spoiler +sorry about my play sensei, I will do better I'm basically a medic type role. I reduce incoming HP by half on the target player (or in 600 AD, 2 players). @marvIf I'm correct, we were in 600Ad during cycle 1,do you mind sharing with us who your other target was ?
I was roleblocked so it doesn't matter, but I actually targeted kita as my 2nd target.
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On November 25 2012 21:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv do you know anything about the countdown other than the fact that it decreases by a number every 10 hours, so far.
no idea, gonna just assume it's a Lavos countdown and stop thinking about it until anything more is revealed.
Could anyone around help me with this Prome/syllo business.
I know Prome said it was explained how syllogism took damage night 1, but how is it possible? What have I misread/missed?
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On November 25 2012 21:50 Djodref wrote: Factional KP is not blocked with Prome ability, according to him. Prome blocked the players who targeted syllo with their actions, factional KP is not player related, so it goes through. It also means that the mafia was planning to hit the player they were going to bus syllo with. what do you think of that ?
Ok. Does factional KP not being player related make sense... hmm. syllo took what, 50 damage? and a bunch of damage spread around a load of other players. I suppose I could believe that.
The question is what does the 'framed' bus driver mean in sandroba's role? What does the 'framed' bit mean?
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On November 25 2012 21:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Ahh, but do you think that damage taken by another player was meant to be taken by syllo? How does Prome know that there is factional KP? If it exists, it seems pretty low considering dieno got hit for 400+ and marv got hit by 200 but the factional KP is 125?
where are you getting 125 for factional KP?
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Acro, I've fostered some distrust on you because of your not wanting to be in the party. Just sayin'.
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On November 25 2012 22:00 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:54 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 21:50 Djodref wrote: Factional KP is not blocked with Prome ability, according to him. Prome blocked the players who targeted syllo with their actions, factional KP is not player related, so it goes through. It also means that the mafia was planning to hit the player they were going to bus syllo with. what do you think of that ? Ok. Does factional KP not being player related make sense... hmm. syllo took what, 50 damage? and a bunch of damage spread around a load of other players. I suppose I could believe that. The question is what does the 'framed' bus driver mean in sandroba's role? What does the 'framed' bit mean? I don't know, but I guess that the mafia was planning to bus syllo with CJ. It should have been the best move from their point of view. The fact that they directed some of the factional KP to syllo (i.e. in fact to CJ) makes me think that CJ is not in the scumteam but town or 3rd party. Do you agree ?
Perhaps, but I don't think that has to be true at all. Like, they could simply bus syllogism with another townie on the basis that syllogism is highly likely to be the target of protections. Maybe Dinesore's damage (or even mine) was supposed to be for syllogism on the basis that he was less likely to be protected (indeed, I protected syllo but not Dino)
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It doesn't even matter if sandroba was roleblocked.
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yeah, and i don't even agree it would have been the most likely scenario. so enough.
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On November 25 2012 22:44 syllogism wrote: Risk what do you think about Prom
what was it about his claimed ability that made you think it was mafia?
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On November 25 2012 23:34 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 22:49 risk.nuke wrote:On November 25 2012 22:44 syllogism wrote: Risk what do you think about Prom I'll look him over now. Regarding his claim. (If I understand correctly "everyone who targets his target is roleblocked") He immediately assumes Sandroba targeted Syllogism disregarding other reasons for why Sandroba could had been roleblocked. Seems fishy because Sandroba seemed like a very reasonable target for town roleblockers.
So was Prome also 'guessing' that I had targeted syllogism then?
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On November 26 2012 00:25 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 07:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv if something happens tonight other than you taking damage please do not share that fact, I might rely on it later. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:31 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 15:37 Clarity_nl wrote: I took 30 damage, same as Djo. And we both took 20 damage last night. I'm willling to guess we'll take 40 damage tonight. Anyway, marv I'm guessing you only got notified of any damage you took?
Catching up on the thread atm. I took no damage last night, but I was healed. Dicks.
:/ if you were trying to be sneaky, it went totally over my head. Sorry man :/
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I really really want to know why Acro doesn't want to be in the party.
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Djodref, it's likely with the way HP works that mafia would be able to go no kills near the start, and multiple kills as the game goes on.
I did have a townish read on Acro until his not wanting to be in the party shenannies.
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On November 26 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Sadly people never listen to me and always end up being scolded for it in the postgame. Especially setup speculation which along with actionbehaviour is my backyard.
I always listen to you, I just don't let anyone know. Shh!
On a serious matter, if you think Chronicledude is town and telling the truth, why don't you think Toad is necessarily scum?
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On November 26 2012 02:20 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:18 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 02:14 marvellosity wrote: Djodref, it's likely with the way HP works that mafia would be able to go no kills near the start, and multiple kills as the game goes on.
I did have a townish read on Acro until his not wanting to be in the party shenannies. @marvWhen I look as my table with the different damage claims for today, I could say that the mafia went for a Dieno kill. Could you help me to assess iamp alignment ? iamp isn't acting anything like his town meta, and I agree with you that no rational town player would have healed him. But its possible there are other explanations, so it doesn't damn him to being scum.
I'd say he was acting a bit closer to his town meta than scum meta, but I'm quite unsure.
If iamp is scum I'm not sure why he'd claim to being healed as it was surely bound to raise question marks over why anyone would heal him.
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Then explain TheChronicler's check?
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yeah, what Hopeless quoted. Unless it's a misunderstanding.
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On November 26 2012 02:55 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:52 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 02:51 Keirathi wrote:On November 26 2012 02:49 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 02:48 Keirathi wrote: My problem with Chronicler's claim is: Why the hell did he check Sandro and Toad against each other? Shouldn't he have picked one obvious townie, and one suspicious person? Picking two suspicious people doesn't make any sense, because until one of them flips, you don't know anything about either of them. He picked those two because one of them was going to flip. Thereby immediately confirming the other person's alignment (assuming no tampering) He picked them night 1. Before we even knew we were going to have a lynch day. My mistake. So many claimed night actions I should go make a list before I open my mouth again. I still don't think they're bad choices even for N1 though. Sandro was under scrutiny near the end of that cycle. Yea, but that's my point. He checked Sandro against TOAD? Why? What purpose did that serve? Why not against Dieno, the claimed Frog? Or against syllo, the person calling sandro scum and the direct counterwagon to sandro's leadership?
I agree with you absolutely that it's a weird check.
However, people often handle their roles in extremely weird, and blatantly suboptimal, ways.
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On November 26 2012 03:06 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 03:01 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 02:55 Keirathi wrote:On November 26 2012 02:52 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 02:51 Keirathi wrote:On November 26 2012 02:49 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 02:48 Keirathi wrote: My problem with Chronicler's claim is: Why the hell did he check Sandro and Toad against each other? Shouldn't he have picked one obvious townie, and one suspicious person? Picking two suspicious people doesn't make any sense, because until one of them flips, you don't know anything about either of them. He picked those two because one of them was going to flip. Thereby immediately confirming the other person's alignment (assuming no tampering) He picked them night 1. Before we even knew we were going to have a lynch day. My mistake. So many claimed night actions I should go make a list before I open my mouth again. I still don't think they're bad choices even for N1 though. Sandro was under scrutiny near the end of that cycle. Yea, but that's my point. He checked Sandro against TOAD? Why? What purpose did that serve? Why not against Dieno, the claimed Frog? Or against syllo, the person calling sandro scum and the direct counterwagon to sandro's leadership? I agree with you absolutely that it's a weird check. However, people often handle their roles in extremely weird, and blatantly suboptimal, ways. Let me be devils advocate for a minute. Is it possible he just had a feeling about Toad and since it looked like Sandro would be lynched the following day it would be an easy way to check out Toad? Yes, it's possible. But, imagine for a minute that you are a Parity Cop. You check two people, and your result tells you that they are the same alignment. Even for mildly suspicious people, its a stretch to believe that you investigated two scum. The most likely (probability wise) explanation is that you checked two townies.
Don't think like that. You don't check two people based on a probability approach. If you're investigating them because you find them both suspicious then you'd quite happily believe they were both scum.
Regardless, I don't see much point talking about it that much anymore because we're not inside TC's head.
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yeah, I have no idea about the Popcorn :/
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by the way, sand's bussing ability doesn't bus damage, only DT/tracker/watcher stuff.
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On November 26 2012 03:21 syllogism wrote: I think those may potentially affect mission success, but in the end best and most likely design is based primarily on mafia being included in the team. I do not think a mission can fail if there is no mafia included; that kind of hidden mechanics are simply not fun. The only possible, and still unfun, exception I can see would be some kind of one-shot mafia ability, but I think they would have used that on n1.
In fact, I think the speculation revolving around whether we should include claimed characters or players with matching time period flavor is also misguided (dienosore and oats should be included because they were on a successful day 1 mission, although the roles do not hurt).
So, in short, ignore hp/roles, unless the claims themselves make someone more likely to be town.
Out of interest, any reason you advocate those 2 rather than yourself?
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The probability of syllo picking 3 townies on day 1 is very high.
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i'm quite happy with an oats/dieno/me/clarity team
Apart from anything else I can't see Clarity playing silly buggers with me as mafia, it makes no sense.
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On November 26 2012 06:47 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 06:41 marvellosity wrote: i'm quite happy with an oats/dieno/me/clarity team
Apart from anything else I can't see Clarity playing silly buggers with me as mafia, it makes no sense. What's that mean? You silly british person.
It's my fucking language
in this case, just "playing silly games" would work fine too. As in, if you're scum and cryptically asking me things and healing me it would make zero sense at all.
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Prome, don't ask silly questions, I might have to start shouting at you.
Just tell me from your perspective, it's super easy.
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how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo
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On November 26 2012 07:02 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 06:59 marvellosity wrote: how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo I was guessing. What I knew was that anyone who targeted Syllo was roleblocked and I chose to present that educated guess as total truth to Sand which lead, i think, to us knowing what ability he was trying to use on Syllo last night since he didn't know how I 'knew' that he targeted Syllo and guessed I might know the ability name too.
What were you trying to achieve in asking me why I'd visited syllo?
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On November 26 2012 07:06 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 07:04 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 07:02 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 06:59 marvellosity wrote: how you knew / if you were guessing that i visited syllo I was guessing. What I knew was that anyone who targeted Syllo was roleblocked and I chose to present that educated guess as total truth to Sand which lead, i think, to us knowing what ability he was trying to use on Syllo last night since he didn't know how I 'knew' that he targeted Syllo and guessed I might know the ability name too. What were you trying to achieve in asking me why I'd visited syllo? I don't trust you. I want to learn more (though I don't think that you are scum right now). The more I know the better. Also wanted to make you realize that I was telling the truth about my role.
you thought your distrust of me was worth outing my role?
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On November 26 2012 07:20 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 10:21 marvellosity wrote: I'd like to hear who everyone in the previous party wants to take with them. I don't trust any of your reads like I trust syllo's ;p
Otherwise I'm open to being party leader, I would take 2 of the previous party with me plus some other awesome townie dude. Do you still think you would be a good choice as party leader? If so, why are you not pushing it harder?
I'd be fine as party leader, but there seems to be some sort of consensus emerging that I'm happy with so I don't need to push myself forward I don't think.
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On November 26 2012 08:00 Promethelax wrote: okay, every ten hours
If by '10' you mean '12', then yes
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that's because you don't know what you're talking about, kita <3
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so what do you think of Acro, kita? (the one today who said he didn't want to be in a party)
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On November 26 2012 08:08 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:00 Promethelax wrote: okay, every ten hours If by '10' you mean '12', then yes I'm pretty sure I mean 10. Kita: my role is not one use. There are some restrictions on when it can be used though. Why are you the only guy with a town read on me in this game? what is it you think you see?
9 was at 20:00 forum time for me (or at least, it was said it was supposed to be then) it's now 08:00 forum time.
??
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On November 26 2012 08:11 Promethelax wrote: but 10 was at 10:05 so 10->12->14?
naw i think it was just because daypost or whatever you want to call it was late.
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On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm
naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now.
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On November 26 2012 08:14 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:12 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:11 Promethelax wrote: but 10 was at 10:05 so 10->12->14? naw i think it was just because daypost or whatever you want to call it was late. okay. We'll leave it again for another half a day until the next one pops up. Care to comment on anything that isn't pointless right now?
not if you're going to be a dick, no
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On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now.
Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town.
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On November 26 2012 08:18 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote:So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far. IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1derAcrofales kushm4staZ-Boson Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig
Goodkarma (1): risknuke
Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl,
Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader: that is all. Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you. It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit. Well, I would not vote for the following reasons - The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
- The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
- The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
- The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread. Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him. Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him. @risk.nukeYou have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here) Ok, fair enough. Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho... What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town. TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... you think acro faked his copclaim as well? Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient. 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. Something to consider with the day one vote analysis is that there was a certain point where it seemed pretty likely that Sandroba and Syllo would select each other for their party. At this point, as mafia, I would want to throw my vote on syllo, since it would make it look like I would be voting for a town candidate, while supporting a mafia objective.
kita, I'm not sure how true this is. syllogism pretty much opened saying that he'd prefer to be lazy with standing for party leader and let sand do it.
But in practically his next post he starts having a go at sandroba for not wanting to scumhunt day 1. Also syllo never suggested sand would be in his party. I think actually from quite early on that the likelihood of syllo selecting sand in his party was actually pretty low.
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On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now. Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town. We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this.
I imagine there were mafia both on and off his wagon
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On November 26 2012 08:23 Hopeless1der wrote: marv, do you find z-bo's response to my post to be overly defensive? I called him scum by association due to his vote, and he basically tells me I'm lying.
well, if z-bo was actually voting syllo, you would be lying, whether you meant to or not
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On November 26 2012 08:25 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now. Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town. We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. Wait, I'm not saying Sand was not bussed generally, I just said I doubt that GK was scum bussing Sand.
why specifically GK? why couldn't he be bussing but others could? i feel like i'm missing something here
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On November 26 2012 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now. Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town. We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic.
yes, the logic is nonsense, because sand was probably going down pretty hard, so you could pretty much include your entire team as the other options if you wanted because it doesn't really matter
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on a sidenote, VE has done some serious disappearing.
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On November 26 2012 08:37 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote:@HopelessActually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no? Here: On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote:So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far. IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1derAcrofales kushm4staZ-Boson Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler +On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count
Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig
Goodkarma (1): risknuke
Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl,
Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader: that is all. Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you. It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit. Well, I would not vote for the following reasons - The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
- The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
- The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
- The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread. Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him. Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him. @risk.nukeYou have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here) Ok, fair enough. Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho... What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town. TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... you think acro faked his copclaim as well? Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient. 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum.
On November 26 2012 07:57 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 07:48 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 07:43 Dienosore wrote: haha, so does this mean toad is going to take 500 dmg bcz no is voting for him? He says that since Oats placed a vote at some point during day 1 he didn't take damage. The vote doesn't have to remain on him for it to negate the damage (from what Toad has said) do you believe Toad's role claim? I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum. Hopeless (as town or scum) should know that his play style makes him look scummy. What he has done should make us (as a town) look into him. So no, the logic is sound to include himself as possible scum there. If he is town he knows that all he did was play badly but that bad play probably doesn't excuse all the people who played that badly. Yeah, not sure what the deal is with VE. Marv, you know him better than I do, does vanishing fit either of his metas?
Not really. In the last couple of months he's had the habit of doing this more often. I know he's had TL issues at work, which makes it all the more surprising to me he's not making the most of a Sunday to contribute. He was very eager to join this game and now he's not playing it. I should add VE quite enjoys playing scum, so meh. It's just weird that he's not here to play at all.
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On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:15 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:13 Z-BosoN wrote: And so marv is gonna choose to ignore me. hm naw, i just missed it. i'll have a proper look now. Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town. We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum.... There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it. Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him. My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree.
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
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On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote: [quote]
Z-Bo, although I'm inclined to be lazy right now because we have our lynch for tomorrow (presuming we have one) I would say from the tone of his posts Hopeless is probably town. We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum.... There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it. Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him. My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree. yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually) Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction?
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
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On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote: [quote]
What does that mean, all people on sand are confirmed town? I don't see where you're going with this. There's no way to know, yeah some scum probably bussed him and some probably didn't No. If you read the last page or two, I said I feel that sand was most likely bussed (ergo, toad). Phagga is giving gk a town read based on the fact that he didn't want people to vote for anyone other than sand or toad, and I'm not sure I agree with this logic. Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum.... There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it. Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him. My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree. yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually) Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction? I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon. With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing? that is what I mean about Acro. Yes.
Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it.
Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation.
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On November 26 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 09:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 08:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote: [quote]
Scum most likely bussed Sand, therefore toad is scum....
There are a lot of reasons Toad is probably scum right now, but that is probably not one of them. As for Phagga's analysis on GK, he basically called him null by the end of it so.... don't read too much into it.
Clarity you are not understanding a thing I say. Sand was bussed. Evidence of this is the fact that Toad, who is almost confirmed scum, voted for him. My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree. yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually) Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction? I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon. With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing? that is what I mean about Acro. Yes. Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it. Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation. I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value.
That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission.
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On November 26 2012 09:09 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 09:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote: [quote]
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree. yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually) Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction? I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon. With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing? that is what I mean about Acro. Yes. Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it. Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation. I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value. That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission. Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit?
Not sure. Someone in my 'not really done anything to make me think he's town' list. There are people on borderline I'd have to filter to make a call too.
goodkarma/Adam/VE are in the not done anything to make me think he's town list. kita's in some space i'm not sure of. borderline players are people like hapa, Z-bo, iamp You're also in a special place as syllo thinks you're scum atm and I love me some syllo sheeping. I'd need to hear more from him on that though.
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On November 26 2012 09:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 09:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 26 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote: [quote]
My point is I don't see what you're getting at, like at all. You asked marv is sand was bussed and he said "probably by some" So what's your point? You are pissing me off. Read the last three pages, ffs. I'm having issues with phagga's town read on GK, in which he implies that it's unlikely scum bussed sand in the way that a scum gk would have done, to which I disagree. yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually) Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction? I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon. With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing? that is what I mean about Acro. Yes. Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it. Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation. I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value. That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission. The issue isn't whether it's reasonable to doubt my claim. You'll notice that I didn't jump on him for questioning me about it when he first asked the question. The issue is that TODAY, he's been saying it wouldn't be a good idea to take him to the party. The insinuation is that he, himself, has some kind of modifier to party success today. Which makes him questioning me about it on day 1 fishy as fuck.
you're making that insinuation, but it could be for other reasons. I've made it pretty clear I don't like it at all and I want an explanation, so you're preaching to the choir on that one.
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On November 26 2012 09:25 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 09:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:09 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:46 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote: [quote]
yeah generally you two need to stop arguing about it because you're probably on the same page really
the nub of it is that phagga is saying that given toad is very likely to be scum too, GK would be unlikely to be trying to make the vote between sand and toad, although I don't necessarily subscribe to this for the reason I said somewhat earlier (it was likely sandroba was going to die, so it's an easy opportunity just to bus other team-mates casually)
Do you agree with Hopeless about on of him/Zbo/Acro being scum and his reasoning and what do you think of Acro and his contradiction? I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon. With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing? that is what I mean about Acro. Yes. Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it. Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation. I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value. That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission. Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit? Not sure. Someone in my 'not really done anything to make me think he's town' list. There are people on borderline I'd have to filter to make a call too. goodkarma/Adam/VE are in the not done anything to make me think he's town list. kita's in some space i'm not sure of. borderline players are people like hapa, Z-bo, iamp You're also in a special place as syllo thinks you're scum atm and I love me some syllo sheeping. I'd need to hear more from him on that though. do you think Syllo has a valid point on why I am scum? My 'fake claim' . And out of Adam/VE/GK is there a reason you'd pick one over the others or just a shot into the player who have done nothing?
I don't understand his points on you very well and some of it is based on setup speculation that i don't think is necessarily true ("this looks like a mafia ability"). It could be a fake-claim, it could not, meh.
Out of those 3 I'd put Adam 3rd. Also I didn't say they'd done nothing, I said they hadn't done anything to make me think they were town, there's a difference. If I was a vigilante I'd probably shoot VE for his and Bio's combined lack of content, whereas at least GK is posting.
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On November 26 2012 09:29 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 09:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:25 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:09 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 09:04 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 09:02 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 08:53 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote: [quote]
I don't feel that strongly about Hopeless' point. At some point sandroba was 100% getting lynched and so it would have been easy to get on his wagon.
With Acro do you mean regarding being on the party / kei thing?
that is what I mean about Acro. Yes. Looking back at Acro's filter I saw him attack Kei for his knowledge about his hidden success number, but I can't find him directly criticising him for saying it wasn't a great idea he wouldn't come with the party. If he did so please quote it because I missed it. Presuming Toad is scum for the moment, for Acro to be scum we'd have to get around the fact that Acro was the first one to really heavily accuse Toad of being scum and attack him for it. There seems to be very little need for a bus of that sort in that situation. I think third party makes more sense, with a pro-town win con. maybe a survivor? Not that Acro was disagreeing with the conclusion he just seemed to have doubted the claim that Kier could know the lowness of his success value. That's a reasonable doubt imo, given the OP states the number is hidden, and my role PM says nothing about my hidden success number. Overall I think town makes the most sense but I really want to know why he's so eager not to be brought on the mission. Okay. Thanks for the read. Who do you think is the most likely scum after Toad (or instead of Toad); if you had a vig power who would you hit? Not sure. Someone in my 'not really done anything to make me think he's town' list. There are people on borderline I'd have to filter to make a call too. goodkarma/Adam/VE are in the not done anything to make me think he's town list. kita's in some space i'm not sure of. borderline players are people like hapa, Z-bo, iamp You're also in a special place as syllo thinks you're scum atm and I love me some syllo sheeping. I'd need to hear more from him on that though. do you think Syllo has a valid point on why I am scum? My 'fake claim' . And out of Adam/VE/GK is there a reason you'd pick one over the others or just a shot into the player who have done nothing? I don't understand his points on you very well and some of it is based on setup speculation that i don't think is necessarily true ("this looks like a mafia ability"). It could be a fake-claim, it could not, meh. Out of those 3 I'd put Adam 3rd. Also I didn't say they'd done nothing, I said they hadn't done anything to make me think they were town, there's a difference. If I was a vigilante I'd probably shoot VE for his and Bio's combined lack of content, whereas at least GK is posting. thanks and thanks. Do you think a ~5 man mafia team makes sense? If so do you think that there is a third party? I'm assuming both are true but I'd like some input.
I'm assuming 3rd party because of the OP. 5 man mafia team would make the most sense numbers-wise (if this were a normal i'd absolutely expect 5), but because of the setup it could be skewed one way or another, it's pretty hard to tell.
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30 man game is typically 24-6, I've never seen it otherwise.
Palmar's normal was about 25 players with 5 mafia.
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i'm gonna vote for oats, with his roleclaim it seems to make sense too.
##vote: Oatsmaster
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now that's much more interesting.
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your case definitely pushes me over to the scum side for hopeless, hapa.
must be the way you tell 'em
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On November 26 2012 10:18 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 10:14 marvellosity wrote: your case definitely pushes me over to the scum side for hopeless, hapa.
must be the way you tell 'em Like honestly I'm not all too-convinced about Hopeless being scum yet. He is pretty damn lazy in his townie meta, and I'd be hesitant to lynch him just on "lack of scumhunting", because he has a lower standard than the rest of us. I'm also not sure if the mentality deviations he's showing are necessarily scummy deviations. Though I'm certainly leaning towards it. More waiting for Hopeless's response though.
i basically agree with all of this
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his self-pity is remarkably tedious, i will say that.
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On November 26 2012 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote: also: I read that post from Toad thought "oh cool so not voting Toad is like having a 500 HP vig shot on a vet that many people think is scummy; I'll vote elsewhere thanks" If you had kept your vote off him for a while we could have pressured him with his claimed role but no.
Why did you want the heal over Syllo/Dieno? Why did you think that you were more of a town asset than either of them? I'd say its probably worth another go, and I didn't really think about who could benefit more than me. I'm not a greater asset, now that you ask. And as for the 500hp vig shot, yes in hindsight probably not the best move if we could finish him off. @Hapa: + Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:05 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ HopelessWell first-off, while I'm interested in hearing your responses, I'm more interested in seeing you scumhunt. But that being said, there are some things I want to hear about: On November 26 2012 10:28 Hopeless1der wrote:I supported sandroba for party leader and I've failed to do anything in terms of scumhunting, I go on to defend sandroba from a lynch, and of course he flips scum. If you weren't getting scumvibes from me, you're giving me too much credit (or too little ) The townie motivation is...I thought I was right. I was clearly wrong as evidenced by sand's flip. This kind of thing can't be adequately defended against because I hadn't put any effort into the thread and it would come down to "because I said so" as my defense. Its a waste of time, and I'd rather acknowledge the fact that I look scummy and move on. P.S. This was not a ploy like the one I pulled day 1 in Looney, this is me being bad. The fact that I went after Z-Bo is because of the day 1 voting, he just happened to have the case against me at the time. The issue here is that you see "mafia motivation" in your own actions, which is really odd, given that a townie-Hopeless would have less doubts about his actions. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but it is a notable choice nonetheless. On November 26 2012 10:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this? For Toad, on the off chance that he was telling the truth, I didn't want him taking damage. Otherwise, redcheck = lynch, and he's dead regardless of the damage he may take. It might have made it happen sooner if we aimed damage at him, but that's like playing into modkills. Secure the lynch if you want scum. If a vig helps you along the way, cool, but play to lynch imo. TC - He was getting pushed by Acro and Z-Bo and I thought he came off looking scummy. I didn't want to lynch sandroba, and TC insisted he was never planning on giving townreads or even using townreads to make his party, and waffled whether or not his plan was bad a couple times. I found it scummy, and the post I voted off of was him saying he'd vote for reasons that are not necessarily connected to being scum (number of votes someone has). As to the damage, its not like its possible to confirm it, so why claim it? I didn't know what Toad would do, but he admitted to having a heal, and I would like one, so what the hell, might as well ask. Uhh... that bolded part makes no sense. You didn't believe TheChronicler's check on Toad, but you believed Acro's check on toad. This would be fine and dandy if Acro wasn't your top scumread right now. Please explain. Also, who's your top scumread atm? Toad claimed in response to TC's check: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:When did you check Sandroba and when did you check me? Sandroba just flipped frame busdriver, just asking because I'm not mafia. I'm Johnny the attention-whore robot. I'm leader of a gang and therefore got the biggest ego in town. If I don't get 1 vote per day I take lots and lots of dmg. I don't want to get too much into detail there but I would have taken 500 damage yesterday had noone voted for me. Not entirely sure because of my internet going out but I wasn't able to ask Greymist because of that so I just wanted to be safe because my role already got changed once... Besides being able to literally kill myself I can use one of my machines and charge them for healing powers. I can only charge or heal, not both per night. I hit myself n1 for 100dmg and I should have targeted Hapa this cycle for 100 dmg getting a 2nd charge. Not sure if I can actually copy & paste my role, so I just described it and the best way to play it probably would have been to outright claim it d1 but I wanted to play it out, therefore I tried to be somewhat okayish d1, getting at least 1 vote (thx oats :3 ) and lurked d2, hoping that would do the trick to get a vote on me. It didn't so I started to behave more and more retarded by the minute until I had people voting for me :p Things that I have posted before: Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 06:24 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 06:15 GreYMisT wrote: Vote Count
Kitaman27 (1): Kitaman27
Djodref (1): djodref
Sandroba (4): risk.nuke, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, kushm4sta
Dienosore (1): Dienosore
Toadesstern (1): Oatsmaster
Syllogism (4): Marvellosity, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, TheChronicler
Acrofales (1): Promethelax
Players who have yet to vote (12): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, goodkarma, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, phagga, Adam4167, sandroba, Toadesstern
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Does that mean you can actually vote for yourself? I figured that's not possible oO My role says I need to be voted at least once a day. That's why I said I assumed you can't vote yourself. Greymist told me to change it to "you need to be voted once per cycle by someone OTHER than yourself" Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:36 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it. That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? what do you mean I'm asking the wrong question? And what questions are you referring to? What the hell are you talking about? The fact that you asked about Goodkarma rather than why I'm voting Kita without reasoning. I would have thought the 2nd one should be the more interesting part. On November 23 2012 00:35 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Perhaps I don't remember your play too well, then. Sure you do illogical things, and half the time I don't understand what your posts are saying, but usually they are part of some big show. I don't think I'm wrong to think this. There's a lack of HypnoToad so far, don't you think? For all I know what you're criticising is "HypnoToad". Remember the game I was the phone booth mason in which you were mafia? I'd say that game was a characteristic "screw this I'm board, let's HypnoToad"-game to the extreme. I'm not planning on doing that again but that's what "HypnoToad" is about. Yeah there was no big fireworks this time around but it's still early in the game, isn't it? So I'm really having troubles with your judgement here. You're telling me there was little HypnoToad in this game so far and yet you're criticising me right now? That just not making sense and again, I feel like you should know better of all the people. On November 23 2012 00:33 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Oh god, is this Toad the drama queen feeling unloved because he didn't get elected party leader, so will now throw a temper tantrum by playing badly until the rest of town listens to him? Dude, if you knew :p I'm going to run to leader every single day from now on. I have to, it's my nature Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 23:11 Toadesstern wrote:and Chronicler, if you really think my mafia meta is to lurk or soft defende people (pretty much everything you said about me) you prooooobably should be voting me as well. I like people voting me, gives me some attention I'm craving for so much, it's in my blood... or well, whatever else :pIf you don't think so could you please stop the nonsensical "OMFG TOAD IS LURKING" or "OMFG TOAD IS SOFTDEFENDING" when I at least admitted the first one myself (the 2nd one was just bullshit) and when clearly neither of those is alignment indicating at all for me. You're a smurf right? You should know me and you should very well know that I'm Mr. HypnoToad, especially in the games I ended up playing as mafia.... LI, never forget oh and hi VE So do me a favor and actually ready my posts instead of what you're doing right now. Again, would have been best to outright claim it but I wanted to play it out. I had a bullshit postingrestriction last game as well and it freaked me the fuck out that I wasn't allowed to post for 48hours straight when I wanted to so badly. This time I just when chilling and thought I'll live with it instead of stressing me out how horrible this role is. So again: When did you check me and Sandro? And sorry for playing the way I did but I really had to. I don't assume you'll stop lynching me because I might as well make up some ridiculous bullshit and had this planned since the very first hour of the game I guess... Anyway don't listen to Kita, don't lynch Draz. I'm going to use my 200HP heal on someone tonight, I don't think I'll be able to gather another charge if the next cycle is a lynch again and we (somehow oO) got a red check on me after how I played :p He 'explains' how he doesn't need the vote to stick here: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 14:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:26 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:20 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:17 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:09 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 11:53 Toadesstern wrote: oh and obviously asking people yesterday about voting me please (I think I asked chronicler & acro) was as well because I still needed the one vote to dodge the 500dmg.
Oh and I'll run for leader, vote me please :3 So... you took 500 damage D1 then? nope. someone voted me. On November 25 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:57 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 12:24 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:22 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 25 2012 12:14 Acrofales wrote: [quote] You're an idiot. He's lying. Oh, you're his scumbuddy? Because that's really the only way I see that statement being both an insult and true. You seem to be forgetting a bunch of things regarding that claim. 1) Toad is scummy as shit. 2) The role isn't necessarily blue - it could be red 3) The role is much more powerful than the other town-alligned roles we've seen so far. except for the part where I take 500 fucking damage if I don't get a vote on me every cycle... Cool. So that changes things why exactly? Hell I have a hard time you're telling the truth about that ability. Secondly, you still have yet to explain this: On November 25 2012 11:55 Hapahauli wrote: Just to get this straight Toad - you targeted me with 100 damage despite never mentioning me as a scumread in your filter? Ok buddy. I'm redistributing HP a little +EV. I'm hitting people who aren't going to be protected above anything else. I even hit myself n1 to get that charge. Probably (?) would not have gotten the charge had I targeted Sandro because he was lynched. Zzzz, I'm tired of your lies. I have a 1-shot role+alignment check. Used it on you last night. You're Queen Zeal Well no I'm not. Okay, lets entertain the hypnotoad for a little bit, because I'm bored. You are hereby claiming that either TheChronicler and I are both scum and lying, or you were bussed/framed/whatever two nights in a row. I can understand N2, because I was ramping up the heat on you, but N1 as well? Lol. The other thing wrong with your claim is that there were no votes on you D1. At some point Oats voted for you, but at the end of the day there was nobody voting for you... unless you're saying you have a secret doublevoting scumbuddy of course. am I allowed to quote my pm? It says at any point during the day included in the party or get a vote. I asked Greymist about it d1 and he said a single vote on me is enough as long as it's someone elses. I don't need to be in the party and it doesn't have to be like that at the end of the cycle because of the "at any time during the day". Did Chronicle claim to check me n1 or was it n2 as well? I mean if it's n1 there's no point in talking and you'll lynch me either way and I'll just ask you to watch at him after I flip. I highly doubt you're going to stop lynching me even if he says / said n2. I just claimed to get you know, 4 days ahead of time (assuming lynches and events alternate) instead of the moment I flip and have huge chaos. Right now there's not much I can ruin because people will vote for a someone out of the d1-party anyways. It was more a matter of 'what if Toad is telling the truth' than whether or not I believed TC's claim (or Acro's). Very rarely is it a good idea to ignore a claimed redcheck (grush notwithstanding) but its a themed game, crazy shit happens. My scumreads on either Acro or Z-Bo are very dependent on Toad flipping town. If he flips Queen Zeal like Acro says, I eat my words and try to find scum elsewhere, but one thing at a time. I've yet to go through properly, but I remember Z-Bo being suspicious of Toad because his posting didn't match his LVII game where Toad was an assassin. If he was right, he called it really early and I'd call it an unlikely bus. Ok the bolded makes absolutely no sense with your previous posts. Show nested quote +I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader: that is all. Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought:+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you. It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit. Well, I would not vote for the following reasons - The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
- The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
- The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
- The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread. Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him. Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him. @risk.nukeYou have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here) Ok, fair enough. Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho... What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town. TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... you think acro faked his copclaim as well? Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient. 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. Your "scumread" on Acro isn't dependent at all on Toad flipping town. It's not even part of your analysis. Hell I'm looking through your filter and I'm seeing all sorts of strange regarding your attitude on Toad. I'll post that in a minute, but I do want to know why you're suggesting your suspicion on Z-Bo/Acro is conditional on Toad flipping town. Acro has a 1-shot role+alignment check on Toad. Its referencd in the post you quoted, through another quote via Draz, I neglected to emphasize it. I still ended with the conclusion that both Toad and I would flip town, and my hopes that our flips would be followed by pressure on Acro/Z-Bo.
so you think TheChronicler is lying too?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On November 26 2012 11:43 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:41 Promethelax wrote: OKay so, just making sure I have this right, Acro and Zbo are both scum Toad and TC are town, Toad was framed by Acro/Zbo and Acro claimed to know Toad's role name and alignment because...? Because I'm insane. Deal with it. When Toad flips scum, have a field day with me, this is no longer productive.
nor are you. if you're town, try doing something useful? you're planning for the 1% and it's a dumb use of your time
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On November 26 2012 12:19 Hapahauli wrote: Marv, can I hear your thoughts on all of this (re: Hopeless)?
your original case a couple pages ago is still the most persuasive thing. A lot of the contradictions that have been pointed out are actually consistent with his convoluted line of thinking, so i don't think they're as damning as they look outwardly.
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On November 26 2012 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote: Chrnoicler, the reason why you are not on the team is because there are 2 people more townie than you. ALTHOUGH after clarity was basically definately in the party, he disappeared. hmm.
his last post was at about 2am his time.
what do you expect?!
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On November 26 2012 12:31 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 12:24 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 12:19 Hapahauli wrote: Marv, can I hear your thoughts on all of this (re: Hopeless)? your original case a couple pages ago is still the most persuasive thing. A lot of the contradictions that have been pointed out are actually consistent with his convoluted line of thinking, so i don't think they're as damning as they look outwardly. While I agree that the "contradictions" can be explained if we accept that his read was indeed "conditional" (but unmentioned), I'm pretty convinced that the bolded (below) is a scumslip (re: toads alignment). In fact a lot of his recent actions seem to be setting up for Toad to flip non-mafia. I think it's a very legitimate possibility that Toad is a third party role or something. Though this would rely on mafia framing Toad both N1 (Chronicler check) and N2 (Acro check).Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote: also: I read that post from Toad thought "oh cool so not voting Toad is like having a 500 HP vig shot on a vet that many people think is scummy; I'll vote elsewhere thanks" If you had kept your vote off him for a while we could have pressured him with his claimed role but no.
Why did you want the heal over Syllo/Dieno? Why did you think that you were more of a town asset than either of them? I'd say its probably worth another go, and I didn't really think about who could benefit more than me. I'm not a greater asset, now that you ask. And as for the 500hp vig shot, yes in hindsight probably not the best move if we could finish him off. @Hapa: + Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:05 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ HopelessWell first-off, while I'm interested in hearing your responses, I'm more interested in seeing you scumhunt. But that being said, there are some things I want to hear about: On November 26 2012 10:28 Hopeless1der wrote:I supported sandroba for party leader and I've failed to do anything in terms of scumhunting, I go on to defend sandroba from a lynch, and of course he flips scum. If you weren't getting scumvibes from me, you're giving me too much credit (or too little ) The townie motivation is...I thought I was right. I was clearly wrong as evidenced by sand's flip. This kind of thing can't be adequately defended against because I hadn't put any effort into the thread and it would come down to "because I said so" as my defense. Its a waste of time, and I'd rather acknowledge the fact that I look scummy and move on. P.S. This was not a ploy like the one I pulled day 1 in Looney, this is me being bad. The fact that I went after Z-Bo is because of the day 1 voting, he just happened to have the case against me at the time. The issue here is that you see "mafia motivation" in your own actions, which is really odd, given that a townie-Hopeless would have less doubts about his actions. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but it is a notable choice nonetheless. On November 26 2012 10:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this? For Toad, on the off chance that he was telling the truth, I didn't want him taking damage. Otherwise, redcheck = lynch, and he's dead regardless of the damage he may take. It might have made it happen sooner if we aimed damage at him, but that's like playing into modkills. Secure the lynch if you want scum. If a vig helps you along the way, cool, but play to lynch imo. TC - He was getting pushed by Acro and Z-Bo and I thought he came off looking scummy. I didn't want to lynch sandroba, and TC insisted he was never planning on giving townreads or even using townreads to make his party, and waffled whether or not his plan was bad a couple times. I found it scummy, and the post I voted off of was him saying he'd vote for reasons that are not necessarily connected to being scum (number of votes someone has). As to the damage, its not like its possible to confirm it, so why claim it? I didn't know what Toad would do, but he admitted to having a heal, and I would like one, so what the hell, might as well ask. Uhh... that bolded part makes no sense. You didn't believe TheChronicler's check on Toad, but you believed Acro's check on toad. This would be fine and dandy if Acro wasn't your top scumread right now. Please explain. Also, who's your top scumread atm? Toad claimed in response to TC's check: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:When did you check Sandroba and when did you check me? Sandroba just flipped frame busdriver, just asking because I'm not mafia. I'm Johnny the attention-whore robot. I'm leader of a gang and therefore got the biggest ego in town. If I don't get 1 vote per day I take lots and lots of dmg. I don't want to get too much into detail there but I would have taken 500 damage yesterday had noone voted for me. Not entirely sure because of my internet going out but I wasn't able to ask Greymist because of that so I just wanted to be safe because my role already got changed once... Besides being able to literally kill myself I can use one of my machines and charge them for healing powers. I can only charge or heal, not both per night. I hit myself n1 for 100dmg and I should have targeted Hapa this cycle for 100 dmg getting a 2nd charge. Not sure if I can actually copy & paste my role, so I just described it and the best way to play it probably would have been to outright claim it d1 but I wanted to play it out, therefore I tried to be somewhat okayish d1, getting at least 1 vote (thx oats :3 ) and lurked d2, hoping that would do the trick to get a vote on me. It didn't so I started to behave more and more retarded by the minute until I had people voting for me :p Things that I have posted before: Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 06:24 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 06:15 GreYMisT wrote: Vote Count
Kitaman27 (1): Kitaman27
Djodref (1): djodref
Sandroba (4): risk.nuke, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, kushm4sta
Dienosore (1): Dienosore
Toadesstern (1): Oatsmaster
Syllogism (4): Marvellosity, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, TheChronicler
Acrofales (1): Promethelax
Players who have yet to vote (12): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, goodkarma, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, phagga, Adam4167, sandroba, Toadesstern
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Does that mean you can actually vote for yourself? I figured that's not possible oO My role says I need to be voted at least once a day. That's why I said I assumed you can't vote yourself. Greymist told me to change it to "you need to be voted once per cycle by someone OTHER than yourself" Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:36 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote: @both: Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it. That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? what do you mean I'm asking the wrong question? And what questions are you referring to? What the hell are you talking about? The fact that you asked about Goodkarma rather than why I'm voting Kita without reasoning. I would have thought the 2nd one should be the more interesting part. On November 23 2012 00:35 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Perhaps I don't remember your play too well, then. Sure you do illogical things, and half the time I don't understand what your posts are saying, but usually they are part of some big show. I don't think I'm wrong to think this. There's a lack of HypnoToad so far, don't you think? For all I know what you're criticising is "HypnoToad". Remember the game I was the phone booth mason in which you were mafia? I'd say that game was a characteristic "screw this I'm board, let's HypnoToad"-game to the extreme. I'm not planning on doing that again but that's what "HypnoToad" is about. Yeah there was no big fireworks this time around but it's still early in the game, isn't it? So I'm really having troubles with your judgement here. You're telling me there was little HypnoToad in this game so far and yet you're criticising me right now? That just not making sense and again, I feel like you should know better of all the people. On November 23 2012 00:33 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote: [quote] dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Oh god, is this Toad the drama queen feeling unloved because he didn't get elected party leader, so will now throw a temper tantrum by playing badly until the rest of town listens to him? Dude, if you knew :p I'm going to run to leader every single day from now on. I have to, it's my nature Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 23:11 Toadesstern wrote:and Chronicler, if you really think my mafia meta is to lurk or soft defende people (pretty much everything you said about me) you prooooobably should be voting me as well. I like people voting me, gives me some attention I'm craving for so much, it's in my blood... or well, whatever else :pIf you don't think so could you please stop the nonsensical "OMFG TOAD IS LURKING" or "OMFG TOAD IS SOFTDEFENDING" when I at least admitted the first one myself (the 2nd one was just bullshit) and when clearly neither of those is alignment indicating at all for me. You're a smurf right? You should know me and you should very well know that I'm Mr. HypnoToad, especially in the games I ended up playing as mafia.... LI, never forget oh and hi VE So do me a favor and actually ready my posts instead of what you're doing right now. Again, would have been best to outright claim it but I wanted to play it out. I had a bullshit postingrestriction last game as well and it freaked me the fuck out that I wasn't allowed to post for 48hours straight when I wanted to so badly. This time I just when chilling and thought I'll live with it instead of stressing me out how horrible this role is. So again: When did you check me and Sandro? And sorry for playing the way I did but I really had to. I don't assume you'll stop lynching me because I might as well make up some ridiculous bullshit and had this planned since the very first hour of the game I guess... Anyway don't listen to Kita, don't lynch Draz. I'm going to use my 200HP heal on someone tonight, I don't think I'll be able to gather another charge if the next cycle is a lynch again and we (somehow oO) got a red check on me after how I played :p He 'explains' how he doesn't need the vote to stick here: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 14:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:26 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:20 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:17 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:09 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 11:53 Toadesstern wrote: oh and obviously asking people yesterday about voting me please (I think I asked chronicler & acro) was as well because I still needed the one vote to dodge the 500dmg.
Oh and I'll run for leader, vote me please :3 So... you took 500 damage D1 then? nope. someone voted me. On November 25 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:57 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 12:24 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:22 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 25 2012 12:14 Acrofales wrote: [quote] You're an idiot. He's lying. Oh, you're his scumbuddy? Because that's really the only way I see that statement being both an insult and true. You seem to be forgetting a bunch of things regarding that claim. 1) Toad is scummy as shit. 2) The role isn't necessarily blue - it could be red 3) The role is much more powerful than the other town-alligned roles we've seen so far. except for the part where I take 500 fucking damage if I don't get a vote on me every cycle... Cool. So that changes things why exactly? Hell I have a hard time you're telling the truth about that ability. Secondly, you still have yet to explain this: On November 25 2012 11:55 Hapahauli wrote: Just to get this straight Toad - you targeted me with 100 damage despite never mentioning me as a scumread in your filter? Ok buddy. I'm redistributing HP a little +EV. I'm hitting people who aren't going to be protected above anything else. I even hit myself n1 to get that charge. Probably (?) would not have gotten the charge had I targeted Sandro because he was lynched. Zzzz, I'm tired of your lies. I have a 1-shot role+alignment check. Used it on you last night. You're Queen Zeal Well no I'm not. Okay, lets entertain the hypnotoad for a little bit, because I'm bored. You are hereby claiming that either TheChronicler and I are both scum and lying, or you were bussed/framed/whatever two nights in a row. I can understand N2, because I was ramping up the heat on you, but N1 as well? Lol. The other thing wrong with your claim is that there were no votes on you D1. At some point Oats voted for you, but at the end of the day there was nobody voting for you... unless you're saying you have a secret doublevoting scumbuddy of course. am I allowed to quote my pm? It says at any point during the day included in the party or get a vote. I asked Greymist about it d1 and he said a single vote on me is enough as long as it's someone elses. I don't need to be in the party and it doesn't have to be like that at the end of the cycle because of the "at any time during the day". Did Chronicle claim to check me n1 or was it n2 as well? I mean if it's n1 there's no point in talking and you'll lynch me either way and I'll just ask you to watch at him after I flip. I highly doubt you're going to stop lynching me even if he says / said n2. I just claimed to get you know, 4 days ahead of time (assuming lynches and events alternate) instead of the moment I flip and have huge chaos. Right now there's not much I can ruin because people will vote for a someone out of the d1-party anyways. It was more a matter of 'what if Toad is telling the truth' than whether or not I believed TC's claim (or Acro's). Very rarely is it a good idea to ignore a claimed redcheck (grush notwithstanding) but its a themed game, crazy shit happens. My scumreads on either Acro or Z-Bo are very dependent on Toad flipping town. If he flips Queen Zeal like Acro says, I eat my words and try to find scum elsewhere, but one thing at a time. I've yet to go through properly, but I remember Z-Bo being suspicious of Toad because his posting didn't match his LVII game where Toad was an assassin. If he was right, he called it really early and I'd call it an unlikely bus. Ok the bolded makes absolutely no sense with your previous posts. Show nested quote +I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader: that is all. Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought:+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you. It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit. Well, I would not vote for the following reasons - The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
- The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
- The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
- The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread. Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him. Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him. @risk.nukeYou have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here) Ok, fair enough. Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho... What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town. TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... you think acro faked his copclaim as well? Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient. 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. Your "scumread" on Acro isn't dependent at all on Toad flipping town. It's not even part of your analysis. Hell I'm looking through your filter and I'm seeing all sorts of strange regarding your attitude on Toad. I'll post that in a minute, but I do want to know why you're suggesting your suspicion on Z-Bo/Acro is conditional on Toad flipping town. Acro has a 1-shot role+alignment check on Toad. Its referencd in the post you quoted, through another quote via Draz, I neglected to emphasize it. I still ended with the conclusion that both Toad and I would flip town, and my hopes that our flips would be followed by pressure on Acro/Z-Bo.
ockam
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ockham's razor (he says correcting his spelling)
either toad is mafia or mafia framed him twice. him being mafia requires significantly fewer assumptions
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On November 26 2012 12:38 Hapahauli wrote: Bleh way to entertain my crazy conspiracy theories.
But yeah lynching Toad at the next opportunity is probably the more-sane option.
that's why i always bitch when I die.
I'm not around to poop on the crazy anymore
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On November 26 2012 12:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv its like 5am right? How are you able to be up at this time? :O
coming up to 4am, and yes i shall be going to sleep very shortly and i should already be asleep. Distracted by things, ya know.
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On November 26 2012 13:14 Acrofales wrote:Me. You derp. Start reading the thread.
don't pull an s&b
read the thread and then comment
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On November 26 2012 14:08 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 14:03 Promethelax wrote:On November 25 2012 09:30 GreYMisT wrote: Cycle 3
Event: Race across site 32
2300 AD
WILL INSERT FLAVOR LATER Sandroba (Spekkio) was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [role PM] +Welcome To Chrono Trigger Mafia! You are Spekkio!. You are the Master of War! You have control over all elements of magic. Your abilities are the following: Water Allows the use of 2 powers the next night. (does not accumulate) Lightning Full cycle roleblock on your target. Shadow Frame busses target with another target of your choice. Fire Burns target. Target takes 200 damage in 50 damage increments over 4 days. Only allowed 1 fire active at a time. You have 600 max HP. You will be voting on another party leader!
Only 1/2 of the party from cycle 1 may be in the party for this cycle, and syllogism, as the leader from the last event, is ineligible for the same position!!!! here Acro. Maybe you didn't read this. I read that shit. I fail to see your point. You have some knowledge about what a frame busser does that is before Marv's explanation, because I sure as fuck don't. Marv claims it only busses roles, not damage. Where does he get that info?
I'm sure you could work this out yourself, but I asked Greymist :>
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On November 26 2012 21:53 Promethelax wrote: because, though I had a town read on him at the time, the ability used on him by scum was a fram bus. Now I thought that was to try to frame him to come up red but it could be to frame him to come up green. Essentially one of the two guys targeted by that frame bus was scum and one was town.
In this little hypothetical, why would mafia frame the party leader who was unanimously considered townie (by the fact he was party leader, if nothing else)
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Acro, what I said earlier was correct about sand's shadow ability
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oh by the way, kita is totes 3rd party, I decided last night before I went to sleep.
His games he plays are an inherent part of his role, and he may get certain rewards for succeeding them Part of his wincon is to be included on a (successful) party
ta-da!
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On November 26 2012 22:16 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 22:09 Promethelax wrote: oh, no, you misunderstand. I get it now.
What I meant is that assuming I target a player whom mafia is targeting and who is town my ability is great but if, for instance I target scum player whom town is targeting with a bunch of abilities (like say I have super major town read on you and I protect you but everyone else in town thinks you are scum and is shooting/DTing/whatever'ing you but you are scum I prot you from all that and RB a bunch of townies). My ability functions the same no matter who I target. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't even think about the possibility of a dreamflower-esque ability. I've never been in a game with one. Okay, so your ability has no downsides. That makes it far more powerful than anything I have seen (or seen claimed) so far. I found Kush's ability pretty damned awesome: a PGO + dayvig? Sign me up! But at least it came with conditionals. I am not sure what to think about this claim. However, I am not making sense of it from a scum point of view either. Must've been a pretty stellar guess to know Marv was targeting Syllo. Either that, or scum has some kind of watcher, which doesn't make much sense at all.
I was the only RB claim other than sand, remember
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also, could everyone agree with me about kita, please.
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On November 26 2012 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 22:20 marvellosity wrote: also, could everyone agree with me about kita, please. Trying to put the pieces together, could you expand on your thoughts?
He fits the typical 3rd party profile. Kinda has town interests at heart, but only ish - for example his stuff on sandroba. But is posting less and is less incisive than I expect to see from town kita.
With regards to part of his wincon being in a party, successful or no, he ran for party leader day 1, and his only meaningful post this cycle was insisting he had demonstrated his townieness and should be included in the party, even though absolutely no-one else thinks that.
As regards to the games, they seem out of place as a method for anyone to deal damage. Then there is the fact that mysteriously he's had both games now and no-one else has. It makes much more sense that it's part of his role that he has to play these games than they were inflicted upon him.
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also this is awesome and makes sense.
Anyway, I don't want to dwell on it too much. I just wanted it out there that it's what I thought (and was worried it was getting buried by you guys arguing )
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On November 26 2012 22:31 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 22:26 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 26 2012 22:20 marvellosity wrote: also, could everyone agree with me about kita, please. Trying to put the pieces together, could you expand on your thoughts? He fits the typical 3rd party profile. Kinda has town interests at heart, but only ish - for example his stuff on sandroba. But is posting less and is less incisive than I expect to see from town kita. With regards to part of his wincon being in a party, successful or no, he ran for party leader day 1, and his only meaningful post this cycle was insisting he had demonstrated his townieness and should be included in the party, even though absolutely no-one else thinks that. As regards to the games, they seem out of place as a method for anyone to deal damage. Then there is the fact that mysteriously he's had both games now and no-one else has. It makes much more sense that it's part of his role that he has to play these games than they were inflicted upon him. Yeah, I can see that that is more likely 3rd party than town, but the thing that I'm certain of is that he's not scum at this point.... Meaning we can leave him alone, right?
I'm not certain he's not scum, but I like my explanation. Yes, we don't have to worry about him too much right now I think. Possibly. Just don't trust him.
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On November 26 2012 22:51 Promethelax wrote: Marv: why would scum put up their (presumably) three best players as candidates day 1? That is Sand, Toad and Kita.
oh yeah. that does sound kinda unlikely.
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On November 26 2012 22:57 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 22:51 Promethelax wrote: Marv: why would scum put up their (presumably) three best players as candidates day 1? That is Sand, Toad and Kita. oh yeah. that does sound kinda unlikely. On the other hand: why not?
I understand running 2, because you can try to consolidate behind the 1 who looks more likely. 3 seems like spreading yourself too thin.
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I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with.
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On November 26 2012 23:03 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with. so kita=/=scum, Kita=3p in your mind?
yeah, 3rd party is my best guess. And unlike some other people I don't throw it around lightly (too many 3rd party reads in this game). My last two 3rd party reads (rock band, liquid city) have been bang on.
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On November 26 2012 23:13 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 23:09 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 23:03 Promethelax wrote:On November 26 2012 23:02 marvellosity wrote: I can see it happening, but on the balance of probability I would presume not. And that's what I usually work with. so kita=/=scum, Kita=3p in your mind? yeah, 3rd party is my best guess. And unlike some other people I don't throw it around lightly (too many 3rd party reads in this game). My last two 3rd party reads (rock band, liquid city) have been bang on. you were scum in LC but you were magical town jailer of doom in Rockband so I'll accept that. Kita: name claim please?
I was indeed scum in LC, but after BC was protected night 1 (a perfectly natural protect) I still deduced during Day 2 that he was 3rd party from his play ^_^
Also, I like magical town jailer of doom.
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On November 26 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 23:00 Oatsmaster wrote:if 3 of them are scum, who credible is gonna push their cases for them? No one wins if no one votes for them beside themselves. Im just sad that my initial read on Toad was wrong Theoretically, the more of them that run the higher chances townies will pick one of them up to be elected. And Syllo. I can also write 4 names and point fingers while conveniently claiming that I can change any name anytime I want because I haven't read the thread. If you're going to show up then do it right or don't bother.
I actually agree with this. At the moment I trust my judgement over everyone else's including syllo, as he's gone all conspiracy on us.
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On November 26 2012 23:28 Djodref wrote:Ok guys, just a quick comment regarding the last developments of the thread, I find that Prome is getting way too much heat for the all the role-related stuff. Arguments like "your role is imb4 for town, you must be scum" are wrong, just plain wrong. Never trust Grey, right ? Moreover, the events corroborate the story. So I don't see why we should doubt this at this point. Regarding Acro, I personally think that he is taking too much heat, even if not wanting to be in the party seems suspicious at first sight. I would say it's role or ability related (his own ability or targeted by another player). And like, there are players whose behavior is not acceptable at all. For example, let's say that Toad, VE, Adam and S&B are the mafia players left. They would have nothing do to and could just watch the town atmosphere rotten. There are too many damn lurkers and I hate this because we have nothing for or against them ! Anyway, I have decided to step up and I'm going to officially announce that I'm going to inflict some damage tonight, and it's going to be one player among iamp, S&B, VE and Adam. I have not been using this since the beginning of this game so it's gonna hurt. Be warned. I would like anyone who is pissed off by their attitude (seriously Adam, you and your "I'm lurking and I assume" attitude, I hope that you are going to die tonight), to join me and to inflict some damage on these players. I'm on this for real and I would guess that some other players would have no problem to join me as well Any ability you have to pressure the fucking lurkers (ie not using against the mafia), just use it against them, for the future sake of the town and also to teach them how to play.Who is in ?
please don't hit s&b, I've metad him town for the moment.
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On November 26 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote: I've very strong reasons for considering Prom mafia, so how about directing your damage that way. Also you are just plain wrong in saying that whether his role seems ridiculous or not is irrelevant, just like you were yesterday when you were telling everyone how wrong they were about sandroba.
If you are town, how about not arguing against me every single day
syllo, perhaps you do, but you're not communicating them very effectively to the rest of us, which is kinda important.
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On November 26 2012 23:37 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 23:36 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote: I've very strong reasons for considering Prom mafia, so how about directing your damage that way. Also you are just plain wrong in saying that whether his role seems ridiculous or not is irrelevant, just like you were yesterday when you were telling everyone how wrong they were about sandroba.
If you are town, how about not arguing against me every single day syllo, perhaps you do, but you're not communicating them very effectively to the rest of us, which is kinda important. As a basically confirmed town with some deserved credibility and as someone who does not make strong statements lightly how about taking my word for it
No. You should know by now I do like sheeping you, having done so for practically the entirity of Bureaucracy, voted you first here for party leader, and finally voted sandroba on the basis I trusted you.
But if something doesn't make sense to me I'm not gonna blindly follow. You should understand this.
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On November 26 2012 23:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 23:30 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 23:28 Djodref wrote:Ok guys, just a quick comment regarding the last developments of the thread, I find that Prome is getting way too much heat for the all the role-related stuff. Arguments like "your role is imb4 for town, you must be scum" are wrong, just plain wrong. Never trust Grey, right ? Moreover, the events corroborate the story. So I don't see why we should doubt this at this point. Regarding Acro, I personally think that he is taking too much heat, even if not wanting to be in the party seems suspicious at first sight. I would say it's role or ability related (his own ability or targeted by another player). And like, there are players whose behavior is not acceptable at all. For example, let's say that Toad, VE, Adam and S&B are the mafia players left. They would have nothing do to and could just watch the town atmosphere rotten. There are too many damn lurkers and I hate this because we have nothing for or against them ! Anyway, I have decided to step up and I'm going to officially announce that I'm going to inflict some damage tonight, and it's going to be one player among iamp, S&B, VE and Adam. I have not been using this since the beginning of this game so it's gonna hurt. Be warned. I would like anyone who is pissed off by their attitude (seriously Adam, you and your "I'm lurking and I assume" attitude, I hope that you are going to die tonight), to join me and to inflict some damage on these players. I'm on this for real and I would guess that some other players would have no problem to join me as well Any ability you have to pressure the fucking lurkers (ie not using against the mafia), just use it against them, for the future sake of the town and also to teach them how to play.Who is in ? please don't hit s&b, I've metad him town for the moment. That's confusing. I'd like to think I know S&B about as well as the next guy, but he's still completely null to me. On the other hand, I have a slight meta town read on Adam.
it's not strong, but I'm definitely leaning town.
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On November 26 2012 23:42 syllogism wrote: What I've revealed in-thread makes perfect sense and I've reasons beyond what I've revealed. I will reveal those reasons when doing so is more beneficial than keeping the reasons secret.
As you wish, but in the meantime I'm not going along with what you say because I don't understand it. So we'll wait until you decide to tell us more / get it all together, I guess.
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On November 27 2012 00:01 Acrofales wrote: Imho Iamperfection is still by far the scummiest lurkers out of the lurking lot. Maybe Drazerk, but I'm biased because since HRM it is my mission in any mafia game to kill Drazerk.
yeah i don't agree
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On November 27 2012 00:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 00:30 Acrofales wrote:On November 27 2012 00:14 iamperfection wrote: I agree with you on VE he never is quiet from what i remember. It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. I especially like this post here: On November 26 2012 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm back!
It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers. From all I know, I was lurking as shit when we played scum together in the Looney Game when he replaced Hiro. I could hit VE, but I could aslo hit Adam or iamp or S&B. One of them is going to regret for not having contributed.
we want to hit scum, not non-contributing townies.
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On November 27 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote: keep it up djo and you wont be hitting anyone until later.
I do not take kindly to threats against my hp
iamp, stop being petulant and if you're town do something useful with your ability.
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On November 27 2012 00:43 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 00:39 marvellosity wrote:On November 27 2012 00:35 Djodref wrote:On November 27 2012 00:30 Acrofales wrote:On November 27 2012 00:14 iamperfection wrote: I agree with you on VE he never is quiet from what i remember. It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. I especially like this post here: On November 26 2012 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm back!
It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers. From all I know, I was lurking as shit when we played scum together in the Looney Game when he replaced Hiro. I could hit VE, but I could aslo hit Adam or iamp or S&B. One of them is going to regret for not having contributed. we want to hit scum, not non-contributing townies. I don't want to target Toad tonight for the reason that the mafia knows he is going to be targeted. Who should I hit according to you ? By the way, how do you know they are town ? And if you have a better idea to force them to contribute, I'm open to discuss about that problem, because it's going to be a problem on the long term. If you fail to do this, I'm shooting one of them.
Again, you shoot for scum, and if I find out you have not done so I will shout at you both in game and post-game and try to totally marginalise you as a player to be listened to. And I have the influence to do that.
See, I can make threats too.
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On November 27 2012 00:46 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 00:43 Djodref wrote:On November 27 2012 00:39 marvellosity wrote:On November 27 2012 00:35 Djodref wrote:On November 27 2012 00:30 Acrofales wrote:On November 27 2012 00:14 iamperfection wrote: I agree with you on VE he never is quiet from what i remember. It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. I especially like this post here: On November 26 2012 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm back!
It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers. From all I know, I was lurking as shit when we played scum together in the Looney Game when he replaced Hiro. I could hit VE, but I could aslo hit Adam or iamp or S&B. One of them is going to regret for not having contributed. we want to hit scum, not non-contributing townies. I don't want to target Toad tonight for the reason that the mafia knows he is going to be targeted. Who should I hit according to you ? By the way, how do you know they are town ? And if you have a better idea to force them to contribute, I'm open to discuss about that problem, because it's going to be a problem on the long term. If you fail to do this, I'm shooting one of them. I think he's trying to say that you should shoot a lurker who you think is probably scum, and not a lurker who you are just angry with for not participating in the game.
Right, this. Given we have to fight Lavos eventually and we have no idea what we will need, who we will need etc, someone blithely shooting into lurkers because he's pissed off at them is the epitome of retarded.
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On November 27 2012 00:54 Djodref wrote: @Acro and marv
Sorry for the fail post. Please also understand that I'm pissed off right now.
My wording was wrong, sorry for that. I didn't want to sound dumb like that. I really would like us to discuss another method for pressuring them and force them to contribute. This is my main goal here. But I'm seriously going to shoot one of them, and you can ostracize me for this later if you want. So why shouldn't we discuss who has the most chances to flip scum among them ?
I know precisely who I would shoot but I'm not sure how much you want me to give you one name.
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On November 27 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 00:56 marvellosity wrote:On November 27 2012 00:54 Djodref wrote: @Acro and marv
Sorry for the fail post. Please also understand that I'm pissed off right now.
My wording was wrong, sorry for that. I didn't want to sound dumb like that. I really would like us to discuss another method for pressuring them and force them to contribute. This is my main goal here. But I'm seriously going to shoot one of them, and you can ostracize me for this later if you want. So why shouldn't we discuss who has the most chances to flip scum among them ? I know precisely who I would shoot but I'm not sure how much you want me to give you one name. Ok, so let's discuss then. Let's make some charades If I was crazy and raging and about to use my full force against VE. What could you say to me to prevent me from committing this crime, assuming you are having a soft spot (ie town read or at least non-scum read) for him ?
I don't have a soft spot for him
Well, not in this game. Generally speaking I have a soft spot for VE ^^
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On November 27 2012 02:01 Adam4167 wrote:I don't know why I laughed out loud at this, but I did. Come on back now, ya hear. Talk to us.
Quoting this just because it's closest (and I agree :p).
I kinda like some of the things you have to say on Z-Boson, so I'll look into it in more detail later.
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The funny thing about that Z-bo case on s&b is that he rants about people having a townread on me, and then says he finds it especially unbelievably as s&b has played with me so many times.
Surely of all the people here, someone like s&b is most likely to have a read like that on me?
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On November 27 2012 02:15 Adam4167 wrote: Yes, it is completely devoid of logic.
I imagine s&b also picked up on my breadcrumb from earlier:
On November 22 2012 07:00 marvellosity wrote: of course, i'm blates town.
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I'm going to be away until around deadline, so if anyone has anything urgent to ask me, shout now
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On November 27 2012 03:05 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 12:50 Adam4167 wrote:
Clarity, as I stated previously, was obviously scum when he rolled scum in Newbie Mini XXX. Looks much closer to his Mario Mini play style, where he was town. Add on top of that, he was sandrobas' attempted mislynch.
These are my thoughts on Clarity from earlier. I wouldn't object to Djordref being in the team, either.
yes, plus his behaviour + night actions towards me make me pretty sure clarity is town (i understand this is reliant on me being town, but hey)
Djodref has been more townie for me today as well, there was something earlier in the cycle that made me specifically think that but i can't remember right now, will dig it up later if necessary.
for now, see you all later
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wait what, I dead? srsly?
glhf. KISS. keep it simple, stupid.
edit: PS. I hope you see how hilarious kush's suicide on me was now (suiciding himself against his king)
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yay, gg!
bussing in this setup seems kinda ridiculous, but there we go.
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yeah, well done GM/cohosts. epic.
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On December 13 2012 10:00 Risen wrote: Also my play day 1 was not intentionally bad. I just tried to come up with a plan that benefited scum but looked like it benefited town. You guys saw through it easily.
Thank you for hosting grey and mt, I personally loved the game.
that was a good play, imo.
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mm, I hadn't realised when I said that he was going to be revived.
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