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On December 10 2012 11:41 Promethelax wrote:
Well you are an idiot for not trusting me. These things happen.
Austin: what role do you believe the last scum has? Do you think he has a kp role or that he is hiding his role behind the factional kp?
So here's what I'm working off at the moment: scum is someone we all trust. The scum team as a whole started pushing this person into a good position from the beginning. Maybe a bus or two, maybe scum team shooting this person and knowing that he'd get heals later on, something like that.
Whoever they chose for that, it's probably what they thought to be their strongest ability, or the one that would be most relevant lategame. I could see kp, as ... I haven't quite kept up with all the extra claims and half-claims the last day or two, but I don't THINK we have all our damage explained yet?
I think the most likely role is something like a mimic/morph sort of deal. Choose a player, get their ability for the cycle. Scum could be sure that no matter how the lavos fight works, their mimic player could get the most useful ability out of all the townies, as there would almost certainly be claims before endgame or when lavos starts. phagga had a reactive copy ability, but we haven't seen anything proactive yet and it would make sense for that to be the person protected for endgame.
Beyond that...could potentially be someone that can leave battle for a cycle or two? If someone had a role to flee, to become untargetable for a cycle or two, then maybe scum is banking on that player being able to avoid whatever it is lavos would do, be untargetable, and make sure that lavos was only attacking townies.
Off the top of my head, those are two things we haven't seen (except drazerk's one-night untargetable claim) that would kind of make sense to protect until lavos.
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Hahaha. This is way better. I'll speculate all day about who the person might be, or what role they might have, but I just don't know who it is.
If scum has someone who levels up like kita does, that's an easy choice. Going to be the strongest by the end of game, maybe can use multiple actions at the start of the lavos fight and inflict some serious damage.
Or...if oats can actually use multiple actions, that's another strong ability to protect. I don't like the chances on that compared to other things, because I would guess that Grey wouldn't give a scum with a very powerful ability the power to use 2 actions per night. I'd probably rather have one strong ability reserved for lategame than 2 smaller ones.
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On December 10 2012 12:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote: austinmcc
Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much You people are impossible to please. I roleblocked mafia on 4 different occasions, opposed sandroba d1, wrote several cases against risk, pushed a VE lynch, and was the first person to question s&b's role and I still have to listen to this 3p nonsense? Don't make me flip that power switch of yours!
I didn't mess you claiming 3P did I?
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On December 10 2012 12:07 Promethelax wrote:
Austin, say that again, but in English this time.
Which bit?
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On December 10 2012 12:08 Promethelax wrote:
"I didn't mess you claiming 3p did I?"
I actually have no idea what you are trying to say there.
Gotcha.
I vote acrofales, because I'd rather kill third party that I don't trust than someone I don't have a scumread on.
Oats responded to that:On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote: austinmcc
Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much
Kita responded with this:On December 10 2012 12:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote: austinmcc
Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much You people are impossible to please. I roleblocked mafia on 4 different occasions, opposed sandroba d1, wrote several cases against risk, pushed a VE lynch, and was the first person to question s&b's role and I still have to listen to this 3p nonsense? Don't make me flip that power switch of yours!
When Oats posted his response, I didn't remember kita ever claiming to be third party. When kita responded without saying "...I'm not third party," it made me think I'd missed something.
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Oh...I typoed miss and wrote mess. 3P = third party.
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On December 10 2012 12:17 Promethelax wrote:
Fair. I saw your question after I posted mine and went 'oooooh good question' to myself.
^
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On December 10 2012 12:28 Adam4167 wrote:
No, screw this dumb line of thinking.
Acro has done more for this town than just about anyone and you want to lynch him while hes AFK?
We lynch Austin today.
You and Syllo both have this line of reasoning, and I don't understand it at ALL.
(1) Acro has done more for this town than just about anyone
(2) Acro is NOT town
(3) We don't actually KNOW Acro's wincon or really what he does, in full
You want to leave him alive because he's done a lot for town. But you know he's NOT town. If you were in a 3-man LYLO situation in another game, and one of the two other guys claimed scum in the the thread, just typed "I'm scum," but had been super townie all game and had made cases on his scumbuddies, etc., wouldn't you still lynch that guy? You wouldn't let scum win that game just because the scum player had helped town so much.
Yes, Acro is probably not scum (technically, do we actually KNOW this? We just have a parity check, right?). But you don't know his wincon, you don't know what he can do next cycle, and you DO know that he won't add to town's KP against lavos. But it's cool, because he's helped town.
That's the sort of thinking that makes Holy Roman happen.
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Going to sleep.
I do loves me some speculation, so...was anyone else having similar thoughts? That we've got the remaining scum buried somewhere? Assuming scum DID bury someone, anyone else have ideas as to roles that you'd risk so much to protect?
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On December 10 2012 12:59 Adam4167 wrote:
Yeah I really don't care what happened in Holy Roman.
I also don't care what Acro's win condition is at this point, I said earlier, I have no beef with 3rd party.
What I see now is someone under suspicion trying to sway the town into voting a 3rd party because there's no more easy lynches.
Hi there. I'm the easy lynch.
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On December 10 2012 12:59 Adam4167 wrote:
Yeah I really don't care what happened in Holy Roman.
I also don't care what Acro's win condition is at this point, I said earlier, I have no beef with 3rd party.
What I see now is someone under suspicion trying to sway the town into voting a 3rd party because there's no more easy lynches.
This is what I'm talking about.
We win by defeating lavos.
Scum win by killing off town and having mafia alive.
So what happens if all mafia are dead, we summon lavos, and he somehow wipes us? Nobody wins? Everyone loses but lavos? Grey has spent a lot of time crafting this game and hosting it, and I don't think that he'd leave this gaping hole in the setup where nobody wins.
You've got no idea if Acro is the gap-filler. A third party that's pro-lavos. Working to summon lavos, but then against town once that happens.
You may not have a beef with 3rd party now, but if that third party has a win condition that is actively anti-town, you darn well better have a beef with 3rd party.
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I think you guys are all forgetting something.
I AM A BUNCH OF OLD, WISE DUDES
Throughout history, old wise dudes have been proven to be (1) intelligent and (2) good at martial arts. Nobody has ever been trained in martial arts by a child, or a teenager, or even just a slightly-balding middle-aged man. No. If you really want good martial arts training, you find the oldest, most wrinkled, old dude in the land. He imparts all sorts of wisdom, you train under him, and you become awesome. That's how it works. Always.
Daniel-san befriends Mr. Miyagi. Learns martial arts and important life lessons from Mr. Miyagi. At the final karate tournament, Daniel-san uses the crane kick to win. Lynching me is the equivalent of Daniel-san walking out of the ring in the final match and crane kicking Mr. Miyagi in the face. It's a bad idea, and it wouldn't be right.
Master Splinter teaches the teenage mutant ninja turtles martial arts and ... how to live in the sewers or whatever. Do the teenage mutant ninja turtles ever get tired of fighting Shredder and decide to poke holes in Master Splinter with their weapons? No. Because that would be stupid, and they'd probably get fat and lazy and just eat pizza without his training.
Are you seeing a pattern?
Gandalf is old, although not necessarily good at martial arts. However, when some gimpy little midgets leave him to fall down a hole, what happens? He comes back and helps those same gimpy little midgets with his wise old man powers.
Do the X-men ever think "gee, I haven't seen any bad mutants in a while, better just clobber Professor X today!"? No. He's an old man and he's got friggin' mind powers. He doesn't even have to be good at martial arts (probably isn't). He can probably force someone else (who IS good at martial arts) to fight for him. And he's pretty friggin' wise.
Confucious, high expectations asian father, Doc Brown, Dumbledore, etc.
I can keep going, but I think this should be apparent. You don't attack old, wise men. They are smart. They are good at martial arts. They are valuable assets. Everyone who has ever been trained by an old wise person DOESN'T GO AND ATTACK THAT OLD WISE PERSON. It's just wrong.
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On December 10 2012 23:03 Acrofales wrote:
With Phagga dead that leaves Adam, H1 and Hapa as possible scum. I agree, however, with austin when he says that it is really hard to see one of them as scum. Their filters read moderately townie.
However, if austin is town, then he KNOWS one of them must be scum. Rather than figuring out which one, he decides to take the easy way out: lynch the 3rd party. There is a good chance town is not opposed to lynching 3P if they cannot find scum, so I am the lynch by default if austin can worm himself out of the lynch. Why? Because scummcc knows that any case he makes against Hapa, H1 or Adam will be unconvincing. If austin really was town, he would be looking for scum, not trying to lynch 3P.
This is entirely false. This is the whole reason I'm advocating what I am.
SOMEONE has to be scum. It does not HAVE to be one of those folks. Unless everyone else is also an innocent child, you're entirely discounting the idea that someone else is scum. If they hung on this long, I don't think it's because they've got one person under some suspicion and that's all that's left. They've got to have someone decently situated, with some kind of power they think can actually make a difference during the lavos fight.
Conclusion: austinmcc does not care about the future, just about avoiding the lynch. austinmcc doesn't care about his abilities, because they were fake. austinmcc does not care about scumhunting, because he cannot find a way to credibly paint one of the remaining townies as scum. In closing, austinmcc is scum.
Yes, I did not know if I had a 1999 power. Turns out I do, but no...didn't ask. Yes, that is exactly why I found SnB scummy.
But my abilities aren't fake. I've proven one of them, the only one I've had a chance to, and I can tell you your exact hp after tonight.
I happen to care enough about scumhunting not to fake it. I don't think any of the "easy" choices are scum, and looking elsewhere hasn't netted me someone that I actually think is scum yet.
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On December 11 2012 00:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
Wow austin, you shouldve put in this effort earlier.
Anyway there is no way you could be looking scummier than you currently are.
I don't care if I LOOK scummy for suggesting we kill acro. I care that I'm NOT SCUM. Put it this way...
Oats. If you knew I was town, who would you be voting for today? Would you actually have another scumread right now? Or would you be unsure who the remaining scum was?
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On December 11 2012 00:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
Nope dont see anyone else.
why? Cause you are the last scum :D Simple.
Ta da. I know I'm town. I don't see anyone else. But yet not seeing anyone else is why some of these votes are on me.
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On December 11 2012 01:00 Promethelax wrote:
so you don't see anyone else but you think we should lynch Acro? Explain how that isn't an attempt to force a mislynch.
...
Acro is 100% not town. Acro may or may not have a town-friendly wincon, but he's 100% not town.
Any other target I chose is someone that I don't have a scumread on, that I think is town.
I would rather lynch someone I know ISN'T town (and might be anti-town) than someone I think is. If I don't see anyone that I think is scum, then I'd rather drop the only player I know also isn't town.
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Like...every other suggestion would be me pushing for something I think is a mislynch. This is the only lynch I can make without thinking I'm mislynching.
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On December 11 2012 01:08 Promethelax wrote:
which is why I think you are scum. You need to go after 3p because this game has gone on long enough that we, as a town, are pretty clear on our townieness. There are only a few scummy players left and you called all the ones who aren't you town. So you went for the 3p. You are scum. I look forward to your lynch. What?
Look at my filter. It's not like I hit today yelling "EVERYONE BUT PHAGGA IS TOWN GAIZ, EVERYONE BUT PHAGGA TOWN." There were a few other players who MIGHT have been scum, but I wasn't buying it based on setup, and then his filter fit with the setup speculation where maybe he could account for missing actions.
But instead of limping onto another townread and trying to save my skin, this is what I'm doing. I don't think any of the other easy options are scum, which is what I've been saying all today, but it's not like that was set in stone earlier. I could have made a case on one or probably any of them if I was really, really trying to force this.
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On December 11 2012 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
This is so bad austin.
Why should we kill acro? Do you think we will lose the game if he stays alive and you dont?
My posts. Read them.
No, I don't think he has a magical "town loses" spell. I DO think there's a decent chance he's anti-town/wins with lavos/whatever. But it's just a chance, and it wouldn't be some kind of instant loss.
We should kill acro because I am town. He is not town. I don't know how to make it clearer than that. I would like to lynch scum, but I don't have any scumreads. So I've got to go with the least-townie option, as we can't no-lynch, and that's acro.
Some of the votes on me aren't even "austinmcc scum." They're just "well, we can't no-lynch." For some of the players who think I'm scum, it's just process of elimination, without even considering that scum may have just planted someone to play the long game.
I happen to know my alignment, so...sorry. I'm not buying into the austinmcc scum story.
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Because it didn't take much time at all. Because half the thread isn't ACTUALLY interested in finding scum, they're interested in ending this cycle and fighting lavos.
Because...nobody seems to accept my other arguments? Because I have fun playing mafia, and it's slightly less fun when you're getting mislynched, so I'd prefer to play in a way that adds fun back into the game?
It's not exactly the first time I've made a ridiculous post defending myself or attacking someone I think is scummy. See...the case/play I wrote about annul being a wank-fiend in Liquid City. See...batman.
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EPT
