EPTChrono Trigger Mafia - Page 19
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Doesn't seem like there is any way that Chrono is a fake-claim either. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Hopeless Pretty sure he's not scum. His reactions towards cases against him have been really townie overall. He also seems more engaged in this game than I've ever seen him. Also, him shooting me for 222 makes him town in my eyes. Scum don't want to shoot potential mislynch targets - they want to waste lynches on them. His shot on me doesn't make too much sense strategically from a scum perspective. Adam His meta overall is pretty lurky, though he seems to be even more lurky and disinterested in his scum games. This game, he's been fairly engaged, and I tend to agree with a lot of what he's been saying. I think he's town. Phagga He hasn't done very much, but my gut just says town here for some reason. He very calmly and collectedly defended himself against my cases on him, and him speculating that SnB could flip third party seemed very odd from a scum perspective (it didn't read as fake either). I still think he's possibly scum, but I find it more likely that austin will flip red. Austinmcc/Z-Boson There are a couple of factors against him atm: 1) The shield on me N1 and the unaccounted 75 damage on myself. I'm hesitant to draw too much from this (still unflipped scum abilities after all), but it is certainly one thing to consider. Also, I'll ask the mods to confirm my damage PM from N2. 2) Austin being fixated on lynching Acro. This strikes me as pretty scummy - it reads like he's trying to push forward a 3rd party lynch rather than scumhunting. 3) Z-Bo's seemingly weak logic for reads (such as his SnB case). 4) Soft defending risk.nuke However, there are some significant points in his favor 1) It's pretty much confirmed that Austin healed Z-Boson. 2) His claim seems pretty believable flavor and power-wise. I don't think the points in his favor are enough to save him at this point. It's very plausible that scum have a healer, and the claim could well be fake. There's more against him than the other options, and I'll vote him until he shows me otherwise. ##Vote Austinmcc | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
What's your current stance on GK? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 07 2012 17:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I claim the 75 on phagga Wait wut? Since when do you have a 75 damage ability? What are all your abilities? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:03 phagga wrote: could you please elaborate on that? i don't see anything in Toads or Sandros filter that they tried to kill GK, and your spreadsheet does not point to this either. Toad and Sandro no, but both VE and SnB tried pretty hard to kill him. Seems sufficient enough to label GK as town. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Vote Phagga Austin convinced me | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I really think we should be lynching Phagga today. Austin's case is pretty good, and my readthrough of Phagga's play in recent days is somewhat alarming. Phagga's contributions as of late are a town case on Hopeless and very questionable tunneling of GoodKarma (whom he now thinks is town). That's basically it - he's been very reluctant to give scumreads or even scumhunt for that matter. The closest thing to scumhunting in his filter in recent days is the following: On December 08 2012 19:40 phagga wrote: since I have obviously been doing a bad job of putting all my relevant thoughts into the thread, let's try this differently. I got a bunch of people where I am pretty sure that they are town or playing in towns interest so far (Acro). Here are the ones that are left over: - Goodkarma - Hopeless1der - Austinmcc - Adam - Hapa (From all listed here, he is the least probably scum) Now, the point is, if GK is not scum (which I am slowly starting to think because of his night actions and behaviour around them, as well as the convo in the tent), then who else is? Hapa probably not, on Hope I just made an update that shows that I doubt he is scum. That leaves Adam and Austin. These are therefore the guys I am concentrating on next, so you will get more what I think of them before the deadline. Phagga seems to be playing the delay game. He hasn't posted anything on Austin/Adam, and his play is yet again following a pattern of getting ready to plop down a last-minute non-controversial vote on a candidate when the lynch is almost decided. Also, his town cases conflicts with his earlier in-game stance on scumhunting/townhunting: On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Things aren't adding up. His play so far has been the definition of blending in. It's the scummiest thing in the thread atm, and Phagga should be held accountable for it. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
You still don't have a concrete scumread 3 hours before the deadline, and it's quite disturbing. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
To elaborate: This will be the 4th (5th?) lynch cycle where you beat around the bush and post very irrelevant content until the very end of the cycle. Then at the end of the cycle, you neatly package together a non-controversial vote on someone. If this was once or twice, I wouldn't think much of it. However this is a pattern. Day 1 (Party vote): You support kita because you "liked one of his posts" then sheep the vote on Syllo at the very end of the day. Day 2 (Lynch vote): You call CaveJohnson scum for very little rationale, make a "case" on GoodKarma, then end up sheeping the vote on Sandro at the end of the day. Day 3-5 (Bunch of non-controversial votes on party-leaders/lynching Toad, material doesn't apply to my suspicions.) Day 6 (Lynch): You spend the entire day tunneling GoodKarma. This is the only aberration from your pattern, but tunneling a candidate who had no chance in hell of getting lynched isn't being useful by any measure. On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? You attack risk for calling me scum. This is seemingly a strong accusation, but you are very wishy-washy on him the next day. Day 7 (Lynch): Wishy-washy on risk, you still think that GK is the scummiest candidate, build a town-case on Hopeless, then you vote risk at the very end of the day. [h] Today (Lynch): Now we're following the exact same pattern. You've voiced your opinions that GK is town and that one of Adam and Austin is scum. Yet we haven't heard anything resembling analysis on either player. We're now 2.5 hours before the deadline, and once again you're setting up for an inconsequential last-minute vote. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Over the last 3-4 cycles, the only things you have posted of substance are: a) Defending yourself against my initial case b) An aggressive tunnel of GK (that went waaaaaaay too far) That's it. The only other things that you could possibly label as "analysis" are... ...A bunch of super wishy-washy reads on Austin and risk http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=302#6031 ... a town case on hopeless long after everyone thinks Hopeless is town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=333#6655 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Austin has offered us some very solid analysis and has been very open to defending to himself and replying to our accusations. Phagga... has done... what has he done? He's defended himself against austin's case (and now my case)... and that's basically it. The only thing resembling scumhunting in his filter for this cycle is this list of players: On December 08 2012 19:40 phagga wrote: since I have obviously been doing a bad job of putting all my relevant thoughts into the thread, let's try this differently. I got a bunch of people where I am pretty sure that they are town or playing in towns interest so far (Acro). Here are the ones that are left over: - Goodkarma - Hopeless1der - Austinmcc - Adam - Hapa (From all listed here, he is the least probably scum) Now, the point is, if GK is not scum (which I am slowly starting to think because of his night actions and behaviour around them, as well as the convo in the tent), then who else is? Hapa probably not, on Hope I just made an update that shows that I doubt he is scum. That leaves Adam and Austin. These are therefore the guys I am concentrating on next, so you will get more what I think of them before the deadline. Apparently he wants to call this "scum-hunting," but I don't buy it at all. No analysis, no nothing. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 09 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote: What is the solid analysis austin has offered us? All I can see is him talking about people who even mafia probably thought are third parties (drazerk/acro) and a lot of role speculation? I can't particularly fault him for latter, but his defense is completely different from the spirited one he gave in Paranoia mafia. His giant case on phagga http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=343#6852 Also, the nature of the accusations against him this game are far different than last game. He's being forced to answer for Z-Bo's night actions, which are really impossible for him to talk about. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 09 2012 06:16 phagga wrote: You say I only make non-controversial votes, but when i vote GK on D6 alone you say it's not usefull to vote on a candidate who does not get lynched, so what now? You are full of confirmation bias, you don't even realise how you are contradicting yourself in your reasoning (again). Also, I've explained why my vote on Sandro was late (weekend), but you ignore it. I also explained why I switched my vote off kita (he got inactive and was not answering my question). Risk promised a case and a defense, which never came, which was why I was waiting. Again, 1 or 2 last-minute inconsequential votes = no big deal. However, we're on our 4th now, and that's a problem. As for the GK vote, I'm not contradicting myself. The GK vote wasn't "uncontroversial." There was still some suspicion on GK, and he would have been a possible (yet unlikely) lynch candidate if it wasn't for SnB getting outed through night actions. Point is that the GK stuff on that day is pretty null. You're not sticking your neck out by any means here. Lastly with risk, I thought I laid it out pretty clear. You call one of his posts very scummy, then seemingly forgot about it and took very wishy-washy opinions on risk for the next day. You even called him slightly-town at one point. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 09 2012 06:24 phagga wrote: You are aware that he is rehashing a lot of your points in his case, right? I think that's fair. However he's still done much more than you have so far. On December 09 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote: That doesn't read like a real case to me and it's conveniently about the only person who we can possibly lynch over him. Does he truly think think that "vote limping" on mafia is indicative of someone being mafia in this game considering mafia bussed sandroba, there was a red check on toad (and s&b basically) and risk wasn't even playing? What reasoning should he have contributed exactly? Were other, town aligned people "guilty" of this too (the answer is yes). Well I read into it differently Syllo. Also, the issue of "vote limping" isn't as simple as you make it sound. 4 times Phagga has offered irrelevancies throughout the day, only to "limp" on the vote at the last minute. It screams mafia blending-in to me. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 09 2012 06:50 phagga wrote: Two things: The reason why I vote austin is BECAUSE after working through hopes and Adams filter, I feel they are town. That may come late, but whatever. This practically only leaves austin as possible scum. If you don't like how I got to that conclusion, bad luck. It helped me nailing down the person I think is scum, this is why I played this way. Second, Austins case has no single new accusation in it. It has all been there. How can you come and say this is more than I have done when all he has done is rehashing points others brought up? I really don't see it. Because it's more what you've done. How can you say you've done more than him? And there's still the fact that you've offered no analysis on Austin or Adam. I don't care what you have "claimed" to do behind the scenes, because that's completely unverifiable, and I don't believe you at all. The only scumread you've ever offered analysis on the entire game is GoodKarma. That's it. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 09 2012 07:49 syllogism wrote: And where did that extra 75 damage on keirathi come from, since he had a 75 damage shield on him too? Who knows? Unflipped scum perhaps. There are so many hidden factors here between whatever-the-fuck Drazerk was doing, as well as possible factional scum KP. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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