EPTChrono Trigger Mafia
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Also, need to mention that I won't be as active in the thread on Turkey Day (US Thanksgiving), no idea why I didn't mention that pre-game. For now I'll support kita for our party leader because he's so damn adorable. ... Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3 HOW CAN YOU NOT VOTE THIS MAN!? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it. Based on the fact that Acro had the same though as me and from our last game together I would currently, put him in my team, along with Acro I would add Marv (come on, wouldn't you?) and as third player I would chose Hapa. Hapa is a guy who over many games I have come to like and respect though I once hated him. He is a great town player and a kinda crappy scum player, seems like the right guy to have along for the ride. TL:DR My team: Acro, Marv, Hapa I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives. Barbs against my scum-play aside, I do endorse the idea of voting people who have very distinct scum/town play and are easily identifiable. Not exactly sure who these people are yet, but hey it's an idea =) | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:06 Promethelax wrote: My post on the end of page twelve just got all covered up. Please go read it. Marv and Hapa, I'd love your thoughts on the idea of whether choosing a party based on player strength or obvious d1 townieness makes more sense and why that is so. ... Well the thing is that we have no idea what the mini-games will be. "Townieness" is obviously a really good thing to have in a party, but I don't know enough of the setup to know if electing a veteran will make much of a difference. What we should be discussing are potentially difficult choices we'll have to make regarding the party vote... is it better to vote: a) Obvious (but inexperienced) town player b) Active and skilled, but difficult to read veteran player TBH I'm rather torn since I don't know much about the setup. Going to have to dive into some of the host's previous games to get a feel for how this will work. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:17 sandroba wrote: I hereby declare I want to lead you simpletons to victory. My party selection will be as following: I will choose 3 of the less known players who I read as town at the end of the day to compose the party. The reasoning is that this mechanic will greatly favor town in attempting to confirm players. This is better done for players less likely to get shot for 2 reasons: 1) They have less meta information available on them therefore harder to read. 2) Vets/Well known players are likely to get killed n1 if they are town, even more so given a successful mission, mitigating some of the advantage town might get. This serves to both preserve the good/known players and to keep the confirmed/likely town around longer. I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject of party selection and help come to the optimum way of doing things. So you want to form a party of people you and three "obviously town but inexperienced" players you are free to manipulate? Thanks but no thanks. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Well to elaborate on that sandro, I don't find it to be a good idea to have a vet + 3 less-experienced players on the same team. The vet will have a lot of persuasive authority over the rest of the team and it probably won't be a very effective way to think through these mini-games. Unless the vet was super-obvious-town or something, I'm wary of such a party setup | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:22 sandroba wrote: As far as I know I have no way of manipulating them without the use of this thread. Wouldn't that instantly out me in the thread? I typed some sensible stuff and you just twisted it to make it seems suspicious. I wonder why that is. Oh I kinda assumed the party would be working together // communicating in some capacity outside of the general town. I probably should read Resistance and figure out how this works instead of running my mouth | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:29 sandroba wrote: Well I can tell people are town pretty consistently (even more so than finding who is scum), so I will select less likely to get shot players who I have a town read on to take on the mission .I don't see what's confusing about that. Well the problem is that it requires the town to place a great deal of trust in you. I'm not sure of how distinguishable your meta is, but I'm very hesitant of placing so much trust//power in a person so early in the game. I think scum will shoot certain players, regardless if they are considered town or not by the majority, if they are town quite early. That makes them not so good targets to be "confirmed" early on because it's a waste. If scum chooses to shoot the "likely town" group assuming I succeed in the mission, it preserves the town vets. If they choose to shoot the town vets it preserves the "likely town" group. I hope this helps clear it up. I really don't understand this at all. Do the mini-games "confirm" people as town or something? Otherwise, I really don't get this at all. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:36 sandroba wrote: The OP says the sucess of the misson depends on a weighted sum of town/mafia players assigned to it. That means that if a mission was successful most likely at least 3 out of 4 players in were town. Ahhhhhh that makes sense. I thought the missions involved actions from the parties themselves, but it looks like they're just a different voting method of sorts. Gotcha. So yes, it probably does make sense to put in townie people in the missions at all costs. Though I'm still very-weary about letting you make those decisions alone. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Your point is? It's not like I'm making a read - we're still almost entirely in setup speculation no? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:51 Keirathi wrote: It's just a super weird change of opinion from "You're suspicious for even suggesting that." to "Okay, I actually like that idea, let's do it" Ok, but again, your point is? Do you disagree with me or something? If so, speak up. Otherwise, these random passive accusations are pointless and stupid. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: ... We also have the option as town to enforce an additional party member selection vote. This limits the power of a single player, but it makes it easier for the mafia to sneak in one of their own in the 3rd of 4th slot. I think I'd rather put faith in the elected leader, to avoid the manipulation, assuming myself or my candidate of choice is elected. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a "general town vote" for a slot. It's just plain unenforcable - the town leader can just disagree, and what are we going to do... lynch the party leader everyone voted because they thought he/she was town? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:04 Keirathi wrote: Why are you getting defensive? There was a very simple reasoning for your change of opinion, which was already obvious; you thought events required some interaction from the players. Once you realized they didn't, you happily changed your mind. Of course I knew that, but I called you out anyways to see how you would react, and that wasn't the correct way. My goal is to be narrowing down who I plan to vote as party leader. Yes, I already said I will most likely vote marv, but there are definitely other options. You being one of them. But this exchange pushes you down my list a ways. Damnit you hurt my feelings - you will not be getting my vote either so THERE! But why do you want to vote marv? Did you miss the entire discussion over the last few pages? Ideally we want to vote a veteran who is easy to read and we can be clear on his/her motives. Marv is certainly a veteran, but not someone I can read convincingly enough after 1 day of play to be sure of his motives. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on?[Quote] Well what exactly did you expect? I feel like everyone has their own little different version of what my town meta is like =P [Quote]Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who?[/Quote] As previously stated, a strong-town player (vet) that has a very distinguishable meta. The player in my mind that fits this the most is Sandro, though it seems pointless to make a decision right now when the day is still young. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:16 Promethelax wrote: Clarity, i would agree with you if Hapa's reaction to Kier's questions had been what I expect from a town Hapa but it wasn't. My short list is a little bit shorter. Why would you vote anyone you don't have a town read on? Well what exactly did you expect? I feel like everyone has their own little different version of what my town meta is like =P Hapa: what kind of player would get your vote? Not Kier, Not Marv...who? As previously stated, a strong-town player (vet) that has a very distinguishable meta. The player in my mind that fits this the most is Sandro, though it seems pointless to make a decision right now when the day is still young. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:25 Promethelax wrote: I would expect an explanation from you, Hapa, as to why you mind changed. Not an explanation from someone else while you got mad about being asked. My version of your town meta is where you pressure people until they cry and admit that they are scum or poop themselves in fear of your tunnels even though they are town. What's there to explain? If you insist on one, I changed my mind when I finally figured out how the setup worked and realized I was just spouting nonsensical assumptions about the party system. [Quote]hapa: How many games have you played with Sandro that make you aware of, and able to read, his meta? .../QUOTE] None. Truth be told, I haven't even read through any of his games. Someone mentioned on one of the previous pages that he was supposedly easy to read, so I'm just going off that for now. @ Kier [QUOTE]On November 21 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote: I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through.[/QUOTE] No, nonononononnono. No. First of all, marv is really aware of this part of his game and already compensated for it (i.e. "town read" on iamperfection in GSL III). Second of all, don't trust a hypothetical scum marv to include town people on the team. Hell for all we know electing a scum member as the party leader could be an auto-mission fail. We need to vote someone as party leader who we are sure is town. Not rationalize picking a vet because he makes accurate "town reads" as either alignment. That's fucking stupid. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + @ Prom: On November 21 2012 12:25 Promethelax wrote: I would expect an explanation from you, Hapa, as to why you mind changed. Not an explanation from someone else while you got mad about being asked. My version of your town meta is where you pressure people until they cry and admit that they are scum or poop themselves in fear of your tunnels even though they are town. What's there to explain? If you insist on one, I changed my mind when I finally figured out how the setup worked and realized I was just spouting nonsensical assumptions about the party system. hapa: How many games have you played with Sandro that make you aware of, and able to read, his meta? ... None. Truth be told, I haven't even read through any of his games. Someone mentioned on one of the previous pages that he was supposedly easy to read, so I'm just going off that for now. @ Kier On November 21 2012 12:17 Keirathi wrote: I said I would vote marv, barring a scummy vibe from him. And, yes, I feel I have a decent grasp of when marv is acting scummy. The key is, though, that I thoroughly trust marv's ability to make town reads. In the event that he is scum, though, even a scum marv can't afford to pick other scum without some damn good reasoning that they are town, which I believe could be seen through. No, nonononononnono. No. First of all, marv is really aware of this part of his game and already compensated for it (i.e. "town read" on iamperfection in GSL III). Second of all, don't trust a hypothetical scum marv to include town people on the team. Hell for all we know electing a scum member as the party leader could be an auto-mission fail. We need to vote someone as party leader who we are sure is town. Not rationalize picking a vet because he makes accurate "town reads" as either alignment. That's fucking stupid. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:48 TheChronicler wrote: Alright, it's probably just bad. I just wanted to spread it out b/c I don't want to elect a scum person and have them controlling everything. If the leader's scum, we're probably screwed for the mission regardless of what the voting system is. Voting systems in this game seem completely unenforceable. @ Kei On November 21 2012 12:45 Keirathi wrote: You have a point here. We don't actually know what would happen if scum is elected party leader for an event. However, if the consensus is to elect a "vet" as party leader, I trust my ability to read marv correctly more than I trust my ability to read any of syllo/sandro/Toad/whoever correctly. In the event that I feel like marv is giving off scummy vibes, I would be super hesitant to vote to elect any of the other "vets", and would then vote for someone else that I am comfortable reading. I'd like to think I know marv's meta as much as anyone here, but I'm still nowhere near as comfortable as you are reading him on Day 1. He's capable of doing some crazy shenanigans as scum early on. Lastly, I'm a bit surprised you're willing to dismiss voting all those other potential vets without having looked into them. For all we know they could have really transparent metas. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: ... Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. Why are you pre-determining who to include in your party right now? Certainly you couldn't have THAT strong of a town read on the both of them. | ||
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