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On December 04 2012 00:23 syllogism wrote:
Well he would have needed a completely different claim to explain why he stayed home. I can't explain why other than that he made a mistake or thought that claiming this would be more believable.
Attempting to explain why mafia make mistakes is pointless. If S&B is mafia, he could have made a much more believable claim but did not. He could have visited phaga as instructed, but did not.
Well it's clearly not a "mistake" since I directly acknowledged your RB+Track of me on Night 5 in the post I claimed my abilities in. And I really don't understand how you can interpret this as "scummy" when I have so many easy options available to me to corroborate my claim. For example, I could simply claim that I missed sending in my actions that night. Instead, I acknowledged your check and contested it. Why the hell would I do that as scum vs. an almost-confirmed town track? It's cause I'm telling the truth.
On December 04 2012 00:27 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 23:54 iamperfection wrote:On December 03 2012 10:20 Hapahauli wrote:On December 03 2012 10:15 Keirathi wrote:
I'm inclined to believe that Hapa is telling the truth about the host PMs because I trust that Hapa is an honorable player. If he's the kind of person that would lie about something like that to win a game, then fuck that and I'll never play with him again.
I don't necessarily think that he's town again (it's hard to put aside the bias I already have), but the missing heal thing doesn't condemn him to me. I'll have another look through his filter again later, though. <3 While you're there, please keep in mind some of my actions this game and see if they make sense from a scum perspective: 1) I was the first player to aggressively contest Toad's candidacy for party leader. 2) I was amongst the first to vote Toad on the D2 lynch (the 2nd player I think) and pushed for his lynch. Does it make sense for mafia to turn down an easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) in order to put heavy suspicion on another scumteam member? 3) Toad claimed to shoot me for 100 damage (BEFORE he gave up on the game and BEFORE Acro's check). If I'm lying about the 100 damage, who else could Toad have plausibly targeted? Like hapa brought up great points here and you have basically ignored them entirely. Instead just shouting still scum for host pm reasons. I can confirmation bias those points into being scummy with little effort. That doesn't prove anything. In fact, its a point against Hapa in my opinion to display those points as though scum would never do them. That said, while I have my reservations about him, I have no interest in pursuing his lynch until later this game, if at all. SnB gets my vote for now unless someone can account for why he may have targeted djodref against his will. Anything short of a redirect claim means he gets the lynch. I'm going to get around to that case on Z-Boson I promised like 4 cycles ago tonight. ##Lynch: StrongandBig
##Epoch: End of TimeI haven't thought much about where I want to go yet. At least Spekkio's already dead so there shouldn't be any more scum getting potential era bonuses by going there.
So apparently defending myself is a point against me in Hopeless's mind. This is wonderful.
Fact is, I brought up those points because there are no points for me to respond against. There's no case against me, and I have to defend myself against a mix of host-wifom and people idly saying I'm suspicious.
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Option 2 is that the hosts somehow didn't receive//register my night action for N5. I'll ask about that, and I hope to god I'm not playing "defend yourself from host-error part 2."
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Oh wow syllo actually trusts me about a night action. Who would have ever guessed.
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On December 04 2012 02:18 syllogism wrote:
No, I don't trust you at all, but I received a correction
Speaking of which, can you give me a sane reason you find me suspicious? Because this is like day ten-billion of a bunch of people thinking I'm scum without a case on me to speak of.
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On December 04 2012 02:26 syllogism wrote:
Why did you say you didn't know Toad had a damaging ability when he claimed shooting you? Why does a town aligned player have a role that even when used on mafia, it is is likely to do more damage on town aligned players than on mafia? If the answer is that it can be used to "confirm" night actions, why did you not attempt to use it like that?
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. We'll see how things have developed once your alignment becomes more relevant.
Oh huh, the Toad thing is funny. That actually never crossed my mind. For most of D3, I was running on the hypothesis that Toad had some sort of framer ability and used it on Hopeless. Needless to say that's wrong, and I never really drew the connection.
As for my "anti-town" ability - why don't you PM GreYMisT and ask him why he designed my ability the way he did? My guess is that the "collateral damage" is a balancing effect. Having straight-up 100 damage shots would be pretty overpowered from the town roles I've seen flipped so far.
As as using it to "confirm" night actions - I've been hesitant to use the ability precisely because of the collateral damage. My usage of it was limited to hitting confirmed scum to try and burst them down, and see if I could draw any connections. And I did try to draw connections, but had a brainfart in accounting for Toad's 100 damage ability.
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But it's so nice to actually have something to respond to as opposed to "someone like hapa must be scum" - keep it going.
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On December 04 2012 02:35 syllogism wrote:
No, straight up 100 damage shots aren't overpowered at all.
Oh here is a question. Do you get some kind of bonus in your native era? Is this era 1000 AD?
My role mentions that I'm from 1000 AD, but doesn't mention any bonus.
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I mean speculation wise, Lucca does receive some character-specific items in 1000AD in the actual game. She receives the Taban Vest somewhere towards the early/middle game, and then an upgraded Taban Vest + Gun in the end-game time-travelling phase before fighting Lavos. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that in this game, but that's all speculation and nothing more.
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On December 04 2012 02:48 syllogism wrote:
Hapa: but you thought hopeless was mafia in cycle 3 and we had already seen a framer role flip (sandroba)
Me and my confirmation bias thought Toad was framing his scumbuddy to check out as green. Rational in retrospect? No. But it's what I was thinking at the time.
As for Sandroba flipping, so what? That says nothing about the abilities of other players.
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Any more questions? I don't have much more time on my lunch break.
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On December 04 2012 04:01 iamperfection wrote:
s&b does have a point about a possible bus driver type role.
I mean it's possible, but too many things are adding up against SnB. He has a really strange role-claim, and he hasn't done anything to establish himself as townie. I also found his "Phagga is town but not town enough for me to include him in a party" case as pretty sketchy.
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On December 04 2012 04:26 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 04:21 iamperfection wrote:
s&b i think you should do one of those list posts with your thoughts on all the players in the game. do those ever actually help? i can if you really think it would help, but usually all those things do is make the person posting them look like a scum desperate to put together something that looks like a contribution
Well if you are town, any effort/analysis to prove that would help.
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On December 04 2012 07:16 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 05:23 Acrofales wrote:Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started: On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:
Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.
All actions within each tier occur at the same time
Please Don't.
Ask me in thread how something functions and I will tell you to the best of my ability. But please don't dig up things im saying in other threads as a way to "solve" this game.
This is your final warning.
Do action resolutions work as-described by the post that Acro quoted?
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On December 04 2012 08:57 CaveJohnson wrote:
There are no events at the end of time. Why risk any damage on players being greedy at the end game leading to failed events.
We need to play it safe and play sensibly at that is why EoT is obviously the best choice.
How do we know that? I mean I want to go to EoT for the hell of it, but I don't know how you would come to the conclusion that the EoT is some magical safe-zone.
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@ Hopeless
I'm parsing through your Z-Boson case and I don't agree with it at all. Your 3rd section (about his voting actions on D2) rather strongly indicates that he's town to me.
So Z-Boson has put heavy pressure on StrongandBig (who we're all expecting to flip scum) in the very early game. Then hypothetical scum-ZBo turns down a really easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) to... vote ANOTHER of his teammates? I'm not buying it. He's a bit all-over the place, but it's not scummy at all.
He definitely could be scum but I think his early-game actions speak against it. Furthermore, calling damage-night actions on a replacement is a pretty bad idea. Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.
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On December 04 2012 15:05 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read. Off-topic and not entirely relevant, but why do you think austin is easy to read? His only scum game was Aperture 2, and I thought you didn't follow that game?
I read through it somewhere towards the end of GSL III Mini. Austin brought it up to me while I was trying to make a meta read on him. Austin has a very peculiar way of thinking as town that is often on early display in his games. His scum-game (Aperture 2), while reasonably active, also shows a pretty different analysis-mentality.
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Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so?
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On December 04 2012 15:23 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 15:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so? I recently said I didn't think you were scum based on the mod PM thing, which pushed you back to null. Your point about voting Toad day 2 rather than Sandro has some townie merit, but you have some things that keep you kind of in the neutral zone for me (the Prom case, trying to force yourself into the party leader after we had successful parties...I think there was something else, but honestly its too late to go look back through your whole filter).
Well that's better to hear I suppose. May as well address the concerns since you mentioned them:
Prom Case:
At the time I thought his pushing of me was scummy. Probably a more than bit of blind rage/OMGUS on my part, but that's part of the way I scumhunt. A couple of times a game, I'll OMGUS/Tunnel someone until I think they're town or scum. This game, I've garnered town reads on Hopeless, Promethelax, and GK (not much of a tunnel, but suspicion nonetheless on GK) from this. We'll see where Phagga goes.
Speaking of Phagga, I'm currently having some reservations that push me closer back to null on him. While I still find his stuff on CJ and his early-game really scummy, he's had several opportunities to discredit me and push suspicion on me with other players taking the lead, and has taken no part in it. Something to sleep over I suppose.
My "Party Leader" Stuff:
Several people at that point in the game had a "townie/slight-townie read" on me, so I was hoping to get on the party, succeed, and live the stress-free confirmed-townie life that you and others are living right now. Night PM shenanigans got in the way of that however, so I'm stuck here running in circles.
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I can swap, but why do you want to go to the present again?
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On December 05 2012 07:53 CaveJohnson wrote:
safer option than 600AD
Huge bonuses for a few of the main cast
Lots of people already from 1000AD can get bonuses
Well I'm part of the main cast, and nowhere does it suggest that I get a bonus in my PM. You seem to be speculating a lot about how the hosts designed things, and I really hate playing that game.
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EPT
