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On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit.
Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him.
I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted.
Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read?
Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded.
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On phone. BioSC requested a replacement. He will cease posting and ill make It happen when I get home
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Phone dying acro please respond to being bad accusation, zbo respond to being purposefully misleading accusation, bbl.
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On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
On the phone in a theater lol, but I'll answer what I can.
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
2) I've played forum mafia for about a year now, maybe a little longer.
3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility.
4) There was one goal, to see who did what. With the revised plan we got to see justification for six total choices. With sylo's we have gotten his picks and "these were my town reads". Awesome. Thankfully we won, but what if we had lost?
5) I need you to reference the certain reads post. I remember it but not the context. IIRC I was talking about people potentially being able to use sandro's flip.
@TheChronicler
1) Could you remind me what was your plan about ? I thought it was to force the maximum number of people to chose other people based on... their townreads ? Am I right ? So you are against giving town reads, which is contestable, but not the issue here, but your plan was about giving town reads, no ?
2) Ok, thank you for your answer ^^
3) Oh yeah, because people definitively discussed your plan in a constructive way. Marv has just shushed you, there was no real discussion. Moreover, you just told us that your plan still stands. How did you assess syllo alignment by the way ?
4) So the choices in your plan was about townreads. I think a lot of people were openly speaking about their townreads uesterday. Your plan was unnecessary and not in favor of a successful event nor finding the scum.
5)[spoiler="certain reads on"]On November 21 2012 12:41 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:35 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. So you want to be as unaccountable as possible. I want you to explain what USEFUL information you think we can gain from this plan? It gives us more sources of information, but less information about more things. Seems to confuse matters. How do you plan to put this "extra" information to good use? I don't want to be as unaccountable as possible. If you think it's a better idea then why not have it go leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves. Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on. We get information from all the choices, and avoid the problem where everyone will just choose themselves.
[/spoiler] I was speaking about your revised plan in the spoiler. What does the formulation certain read mean ?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just woke up, I'll be grabbing some food and posting in about an hour.
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On November 24 2012 03:28 TheChronicler wrote:
Acro stop being bad. Go through my filter and you'll see me say my plan must be bad much earlier. You're pointing to a contradiction that doesn't exist. Sigh... What a useless diversion. Zbo scum?
The "probably bad" was your first (and only, up until just now) mention of the plan being bad. It is here:
On November 21 2012 12:48 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:47 marvellosity wrote:
TheChronicler, take a moment, sip a glass of wine, and ponder why every single person who has read your idea has thought it terrible.
It's either because you're a genius, transcended on a plane above any of us mere mortals, or your idea is bad. Alright, it's probably just bad. I just wanted to spread it out b/c I don't want to elect a scum person and have them controlling everything.
From this I don't infer that you are actually convinced your plan is bad. You leave space open for it to go any way. I did feel convinced you were disabused of any thoughts about your plan when you responded to me, though:
On November 22 2012 03:37 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:23 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote:
I italicized 'first' because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that party leaders will be changing quite often and I feel as if people are thinking this is going to be a permanent position.
As for the majority elected team, I think it's more logical to do things this way, at least for the first cycle while we are completely in the dark. I don't view polling the masses as dodging responsibility, but rather taking away the mafias chance to have an iron grip on the initial proceedings (assuming scum is elected and starts a dictatorship). By putting the vote out into the open, we also have another opportunity to see where loyalties lie. I will correct you on this: 1. Polls are a terrible idea in mafia (I have tried to use them myself in my younger more nubby days and they are a terrible idea) 2. Expecting that mafia cannot manipulate a vote (especially an anonymous vote as in the poll system) is exceedingly naive. 3. You are dodging responsibility, because one of the reasons for voting for a leader is so he can be held accountable for his team. If the party fails, then everybody in that party comes under serious suspicion, but the leader most of all: he put a party together with at least one scumster (and probably more, or third parties, or something). Given that town reads are generally easier than scumreads, especially so early in the game, that means the leader either has really bad judgement, someone really fooled the crap out of him, or he is scum. By avoiding this dilemma and putting it up to majority vote, you cannot be held accountable in this manner, thus dodging this use of the party system, which, in the long run may very well be its most powerful use. I agree with your first two points, but I disagree with the third. Simply because he wants more people involved in the decision doesn't mean he doesn't want the responsibility. I'm assuming he's voicing the idea for whoever the leader ends up as. It's very similar to my idea.
You didn't try to play it up as if the plan was good, or your idea should be brought back to the table. You simply gave your reasoning behind it.
However, the problem is now. Your reasoning for voting for Syllo doesn't feel right at all. Lets look for any indication you think syllo is town:
On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote:
I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight.
Not here.
On November 23 2012 03:50 TheChronicler wrote:
I don't think we should be going for a swap with 4 hours left. I'm happy with my vote on syllo.
Not here.
On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility.
And least of all here. This reinforces my suspicion that you are scum and didn't need to "think" Syllo was town, because you knew Syllo was town. If someone at any point had asked me (and I believe they did) why I was voting for Syllo, my answer is: I believed Syllo to be town and trust his judgement to pick townie party members. You skip over the "I think Syllo is town" part in every one of your explanations for your vote and justify it with contrived excuses that give post-hoc rationalizations for a sheep vote.
Ergo: you're scum
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On November 24 2012 03:11 TheChronicler wrote:
If that JUST made me scum to you you're lying or not reading the thread. I already said that exact point earlier in the thread. Admitting my plan is faulty isn't scummy, it's honest. Why do you think it is?
On November 24 2012 02:36 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 02:28 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 02:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
@Chronicler: I think it's important to clear some stuff up and for that you will have to unsmurf.
I am very uncomfortable with you being a smurf, but playing like a noobie. If you are, in fact, a noobie hiding on a smurf (like we had in HRM) for TL reasons, claiming your identity will not suddenly set lights flashing everywhere. However, if you are someone acting as a misguided noobie as some hairbrained scheme, we need to know. Just like I told marv, I won't be unsmurfing. I'm alive and didn't take any damage, don't think I'm playing like a noob at all. Okay, so you're not picking the easy way out. Did you have some ulterior motive with your plan, or did you suggest it as a serious idea? The revised edition was my original plan but as I was posting it I got cute. Don't know why, that was bad. Was serious about the revised plan. I still think it was a good idea, but if I'm the only one thinking that it must have been bad.
@TheChronicler
I think you don't know how to keep your story straight 
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On November 24 2012 03:42 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:11 TheChronicler wrote:
If that JUST made me scum to you you're lying or not reading the thread. I already said that exact point earlier in the thread. Admitting my plan is faulty isn't scummy, it's honest. Why do you think it is? Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 02:36 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 02:28 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 02:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
@Chronicler: I think it's important to clear some stuff up and for that you will have to unsmurf.
I am very uncomfortable with you being a smurf, but playing like a noobie. If you are, in fact, a noobie hiding on a smurf (like we had in HRM) for TL reasons, claiming your identity will not suddenly set lights flashing everywhere. However, if you are someone acting as a misguided noobie as some hairbrained scheme, we need to know. Just like I told marv, I won't be unsmurfing. I'm alive and didn't take any damage, don't think I'm playing like a noob at all. Okay, so you're not picking the easy way out. Did you have some ulterior motive with your plan, or did you suggest it as a serious idea? The revised edition was my original plan but as I was posting it I got cute. Don't know why, that was bad. Was serious about the revised plan. I still think it was a good idea, but if I'm the only one thinking that it must have been bad. @TheChroniclerI think you don't know how to keep your story straight
Yeah, I should just have said that instead of posting walls of quotes :D
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@Marv: when you have time, has any of this changed your opinion? If so, why? If not, why not?
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Phagga, I think you are missing the post he's responding to:
On November 24 2012 02:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 02:36 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 02:28 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 02:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
@Chronicler: I think it's important to clear some stuff up and for that you will have to unsmurf.
I am very uncomfortable with you being a smurf, but playing like a noobie. If you are, in fact, a noobie hiding on a smurf (like we had in HRM) for TL reasons, claiming your identity will not suddenly set lights flashing everywhere. However, if you are someone acting as a misguided noobie as some hairbrained scheme, we need to know. Just like I told marv, I won't be unsmurfing. I'm alive and didn't take any damage, don't think I'm playing like a noob at all. Okay, so you're not picking the easy way out. Did you have some ulterior motive with your plan, or did you suggest it as a serious idea? The revised edition was my original plan but as I was posting it I got cute. Don't know why, that was bad. Was serious about the revised plan. I still think it was a good idea, but if I'm the only one thinking that it must have been bad. Yes... and my million dollar question is how someone who is apparently fairly experienced in mafia could not see that this plan was bad. The main problem is that the rest of your play has been fairly standard. You're not ranting like a maniac, like Risen or Bluelightz, and you're not derping it up with crazy logic like BM. Which means you *should* have been able to see how bad that plan was. And that is what's bugging me. Because if you knew how bad the plan was, then there is no town motivation for posting it. And that's why I want to know your identity. If you are prone to derps like thinking that that plan was good, then you might be town, but otherwise I can only see scum motivations for posting that. Now, lets move on to the other stuff Djodref pointed out: explain your vote for Syllo.
Acrofales asked him to explain his vote on syllo. So I come reading his post expecting an answer to that. And the FIRST think he said is he doesn't believe in giving out town reads. To me that's a straight reference to supporting syllo, because syllo was also against giving out the town members he was gonna choose. I don't think he's referring to "town reads in general", because that makes no fucking sense to what acrofales had just asked him.
On November 24 2012 03:21 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:05 Z-BosoN wrote:Wtf... I had you marked as townie, but this post right here just killed that. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
On the phone in a theater lol, but I'll answer what I can.
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
2) I've played forum mafia for about a year now, maybe a little longer.
3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility.
4) There was one goal, to see who did what. With the revised plan we got to see justification for six total choices. With sylo's we have gotten his picks and "these were my town reads". Awesome. Thankfully we won, but what if we had lost?
5) I need you to reference the certain reads post. I remember it but not the context. IIRC I was talking about people potentially being able to use sandro's flip. So just like that you agreed your post was stupid? Did you put any amount of thought into your plan, to be so easily convinced? Also, from a townie perspective, you'd want to choose a plan that was most similar to yours, no? And really, just look at point number 1). IN NO WAY is that the complete opposite of what syllo suggested:The only way me providing information regarding my picks gives you more information is if mafia decides to fight harder against my election due to my team being all town. I don't find it particularly likely that mafia would have behaved any differently today, unless perhaps if I had revealed my team much earlier. Revealing the team right now or even a few hours ago would have achieved nothing as I've been pretty much inevitable for longer than that. The reasons against disclosing the team, however, still stand. It's clear that he is also not revealing his town reads. You now say you play for nearly a year, which makes your plan even more wtf. One year is nowhere close to being a newbie, which was why I had you as town. You have some real explaining to do, this post here stinks. I am completely confused by the bolded part. Number 1.) talks about him not givin townreads in general, which has nothing to do with his plan or syllo. His plan was to chose 3 people who would then chose the 3 people for the party. The 3 people he choses may very well be town, as he indicates for example here, and since he has to publicly call them out for them to make their picks, that would be him revealing his town reads.
Are you buying this then? Oh well, my read was wrong, ergo I'm gonna go the complete opposite. I mean just look at these posts:
On November 21 2012 12:47 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:45 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 12:42 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 12:41 marvellosity wrote:
i wonder how long we can discuss this infinitely awful idea for. Respond to my modified version? if i'm leader and i choose my strongest 3 townreads, why the fuck do I want people who aren't strong reads on my team? I chose those 3 people for a reason. People will be discussing who should potentially be in any party anyway. No-one is prevented from doing this, so giving them some arbitrary power to choose doesn't add anything. When it comes down to it, you want the 4 people likeliest to be townie in the party.
Again, what if the leader is scum....
On November 21 2012 12:56 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:49 marvellosity wrote:
then we make sure we don't elect a scum person.
can't be that hard to make just one or two very likely town reads, no? ^^ I figured I'd add in a system that got us as much information as possible. I never expected to be elected since I'm on a smurf, but I really wanted my idea to be used because I think there's a good enough chance we don't get a townie elected (I've lynched enough townies d1 not to be overly confident in my d1 reads)
On November 21 2012 12:46 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:44 Oatsmaster wrote:You are really not making sense Chronicler..
leader chooses three > three choose 3 others, can't choose themselves
Leader will want to choose people who he has certain reads on, since he will want the event to succeed, and those three will want to choose someone they have a certain read on.
So the leader has to crapshoot 3 people that he thinks will pick town players? This just makes it harder to complete the task successfully. Also, as Prome already pointed out, 1 mafia may cause the party to fail and since 3 people are picking 3 other people, it is more likely that they will pick a scum... So... what if the leader is scum and we do it your guys' way? I even said if I'm not elected I want the person elected to use my way of doing it. I think we have better odds if we spread the party choice amongst more people than if we have it rest with a single person.
Does this look like someone who thinks weakly of his idea, do you honestly think that when reading this? Does this come to you as "a vet who thinks weakly of his own plan?" Definitely no. He completely 180's on it, as if he was insecure all along, and goes ahead and votes syllo without much explanation.
If he had genuinely thought that which he just said (i.e that he was gonna 180 on his thinking and vote for the complete opposite), why the hell didn't he say so when voting for syllo:
On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote:
I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight.
I don't know. I'd expect this from someone completely new and trying to figure shit out. He says he's played for a year and this just kills it for me. He's not making any sense and his tone when proposing his plan was definitely not that of insecurity.
Until marv or syllo, who had townreads on him explain how the hell is his explanation of things "townie" at all. Newbie card cannot be used anymore and his latest explanation on syllo just stinks.
##Vote TheChronicle
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On November 24 2012 03:21 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:05 Z-BosoN wrote:Wtf... I had you marked as townie, but this post right here just killed that. On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
On the phone in a theater lol, but I'll answer what I can.
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
2) I've played forum mafia for about a year now, maybe a little longer.
3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility.
4) There was one goal, to see who did what. With the revised plan we got to see justification for six total choices. With sylo's we have gotten his picks and "these were my town reads". Awesome. Thankfully we won, but what if we had lost?
5) I need you to reference the certain reads post. I remember it but not the context. IIRC I was talking about people potentially being able to use sandro's flip. So just like that you agreed your post was stupid? Did you put any amount of thought into your plan, to be so easily convinced? Also, from a townie perspective, you'd want to choose a plan that was most similar to yours, no? And really, just look at point number 1). IN NO WAY is that the complete opposite of what syllo suggested:The only way me providing information regarding my picks gives you more information is if mafia decides to fight harder against my election due to my team being all town. I don't find it particularly likely that mafia would have behaved any differently today, unless perhaps if I had revealed my team much earlier. Revealing the team right now or even a few hours ago would have achieved nothing as I've been pretty much inevitable for longer than that. The reasons against disclosing the team, however, still stand. It's clear that he is also not revealing his town reads. You now say you play for nearly a year, which makes your plan even more wtf. One year is nowhere close to being a newbie, which was why I had you as town. You have some real explaining to do, this post here stinks. I am completely confused by the bolded part. Number 1.) talks about him not givin townreads in general, which has nothing to do with his plan or syllo. His plan was to chose 3 people who would then chose the 3 people for the party. The 3 people he choses may very well be town, as he indicates for example here, and since he has to publicly call them out for them to make their picks, that would be him revealing his town reads.
@phagga
I agree, I think he tells us the story of this bad guy who wanted to be elected with a bad plan but failed. The problem is that he didn't manage to keep it strait. Hence, scum 
What do you think ?
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On November 24 2012 03:31 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded.
nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1.
Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked.
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And now I'm starting to like this day !
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On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded. nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked.
Why are you discarding Kita and GK in that case?
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Sorry guys, I was smokin a blunt. What were the questions directed at me again?
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Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up.
Plan:
On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose.
Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads.
On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
![[image loading]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/837/f64/b8f/resized/da-fuck-meme-generator-da-fuck-297845.jpg)
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On November 24 2012 03:57 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 03:55 Toadesstern wrote:On November 24 2012 03:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 24 2012 03:05 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I went through Sandro's filter, and other than his absence at some key moments I cannot find anything scummy. He seems to be playing pretty standard for him, calling people town with no reason given. However, I am looking forward to him waking up and starting to play again.
Another thing to keep in mind is that from a game-setup point of view it is very very risky to put people like Sandro+Syllo on opposite alignments. Not quite as bad as Coag+Jackal (and the only game I've played with both of them DrH stuck both of them on the scumteam), but not something you can do without making a very serious consideration, as they are well-known for having each other's number. I don't want to let this weigh too heavily, because meta-speculation about the host is really dodgy ground, but I felt it was worth mentioning.
Syllo+Sand: do you have a recent (last half a year or so) game where you were opposite alignments? 3rd party doesn't count. So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. Only remotely normal game I remember Sandroba being scum is Liar mafia. His meta was blatantly obvious there, because he just plain didn't care about the game. That is not the impression I am getting from him. I have played with town Sandroba a couple of times now, and am getting a similar feeling. The main difference is that he has gone awol for long stretches of time. I don't like that at all, but admit real world stuff does come up and interfere with playing sometimes. I am uncomfortable lynching Sandroba with the ONLY thing I can hold against him is that he was afk when it counted. Adam states Sandroba is playing like he "don't-give-a-shit", which I disagree with. @Adam: please explain yourself a bit better. What makes you have this read? Toad doesn't have a meta read on Sandro at all. He has a "Syllo is town, therefore Sandro must be scum" read based on the party leader elections, which is pants-on-head retarded. nope I had a meta read on Sandro up until yesterday. He was way to "friendly" when talking to syllo imo which again is a reason I liked syllos conversation with him. Town Sandro usually isn't open at all and tries to net people, by being sneaking and laying traps, so I didn't like what he was showing on d1. Problem about meta reads is you can't explain them because as someone else stated I don't think reading an old game is anything like playing it. You've got to be in the game yourself you're referring to imo. I'm saying "had" because what sandro said today, especially him being pissed makes me rethink things a bit... but I'd still say he's mafia considering that I'm not and syllo's probably not either. Yeah I'd say mafia had their eggs in the basked. Why are you discarding Kita and GK in that case?
because neither of them were a serious the first 30hours.
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On November 24 2012 03:57 Dienosore wrote:
Sorry guys, I was smokin a blunt. What were the questions directed at me again?
That explains a lot! 
On November 23 2012 22:51 Acrofales wrote:
I was going to put some examples here, but I have a better idea that will let me figure out more about the unique capabilities of our squiggly line drawer :D
@Dienosore: I am starting to agree with you on the strangeness of some of GK's posts. However, I want you to explain a bit better what in GK's posts reads as contrived. We can compare notes afterwards. We will then use our combined powers to ascertain whether he is scum or not!
@everybody else: go ahead and do the same, but please let Dieno answer the question first. It was him who first mentioned this stuff.
On November 23 2012 20:27 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 20:23 Acrofales wrote:People I really want to hear from before I make any kind of decision on whom to vote for: BioSCOn November 23 2012 04:12 BioSC wrote:
post from phone, sorry for not being active, visiting with family today (thanksgiving). Assuming i live through tonight, i will be more active during the weekend. keeping up with the thread as best i can, still leaning syllo over sand atm. You better start now. Remember Bastard 2 where I shot you for being a scummy lurker? I am feeling that same feeling. If you're town, prove it. SandrobaIf you're town, I presume you know that your behaviour is looking incredibly suspect. Start playing the game for real. If you just keep right on lurking, I will absolutely want to lynch you. DrazerkHave not yet made up my mind about you. I am not feeling the scum Drazerk vibe, but I didn't in Holy Roman either. What I do know is that you have not even tried to be helpful this game, while in Bastard 2 that was what kept me from going after you as rabidly as I wanted. So... lets have it. Less mindless waffle and tell us who you want to lynch today and why. Also, given your stance on noobs, what do you want to do with Dieno, now that he has proven to be useful, and claimed 3rd party? @AcroDieno didn't claim 3rd party in my opinion. The "I am a frog so I'm not town" thing was a joke. @Dieno: Am I right ?
And while we're at it: your opinion of TheChronicler?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:02 Acrofales wrote:Oh jesus. This feels like finding Drazak (not Drazerk) was scum in Acme. The contradictions just keep piling up. Plan: Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 12:25 TheChronicler wrote:On November 21 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
random fluff post,
Lotta Brazilians :O Useless. Don't post like this. On November 21 2012 12:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
I do not have any kind of read on anyone yet. He would be a good choice because if he's scum it'll show comparatively to his town play. Who is he? I'm assuming Hapa. ---------------------------------------------- I'd like to be the party leader. I'm an unknown (hopefully) and no one will make stupid bullshit meta reads on the leader that would probably be worse than a coin flip. That's pretty much the only reason I want to lead. I don't even want to pick who will be the three on my team, which takes me to the next part of my pitch, and something I hope whoever is leader uses. If I'm leader I don't want to choose the three people with me. I want to choose three people to choose three people who will be on the team. They can choose themselves if they'd like. Why do this? Because it gets us more information. If I'm not chosen leader I'd like the person who IS chosen to implement this system. We still get information from who the leader chooses, AND we get information based upon who the three chosen people choose. Summary: leader dishes out TOWN reads and then each town read dishes out town reads. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote:
1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people"
I want an answer to this in particular. Stating you don't like giving out townreads as it gives scum targets when your plan was for people to give townreads to other people to give townreads for yet more people doesn't make sense. Explain, TheChronicler.
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On November 24 2012 02:24 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:On November 24 2012 00:16 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 23:43 Djodref wrote:
I might have sounded angry but I honestly think that this sandroba wagon is pretty stupid. Nobody really brings an original argument and is sheeping syllo ">50% chance that sandro is mafia" and/or basically lynching a lurker with contributions.
It's the perfect situation for the mafia to mislynch sandro if he is town, not contribute, blend in. I don't like how this D2 starts at all.
For example, risk.nuke dropping in the thread and casting his vote against sandro with his "waiting for sandro to participate to switch my vote to ..." without even giving any alternatives. Fuck this kind of attitude !
FoS risk.nuke "without giving any alternatives"... Do you understand that bringing up alternatives would completely contradict the very reason I parked my vote on sandroba. The point was to build pressure to force him into activity. Saying, I'm parking my vote on sandroba but if he doesn't show up I'm going to vote this guy is just... dumb doesn't even suffice. @risk.nukeWell, obviously it didn't work because sandro is supposedly sleeping now. What do you plan to do now ? Play the waiting game.
@risk.nuke
Play the waiting game ?
On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
*snip*
I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.
This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.
Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba
@risk.nuke
Obviously, you know sandroba a little. Could you explain me why you feel like playing the waiting game with sandro is a good idea for today ? He explicitly told us that he was going to get busy this week-end
Why couldn't you share a little more about what you think of sandroba so far while we're waiting ?
Of course, I would also greatly appreciate any input on TheChronicler ^^
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EPT
