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Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 10 2012 21:27 GMT
#22
Hello, I'm Mr. Cheesecake. Constantly eating cheesecake no longer assuages my entertainment needs. As such, I have decided to try out some Mafia.

/in
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 11 2012 18:24 GMT
#33
Just so people know: I'm not a smurf. I'm a TL lurker that has been delving into the mafia section. Most recently, I read through the newbie game where Kush got owned d1 for the scumslip.

Made an account so I could play. I'm familiar with all of the rules / formalities, this is just my first time playing.

And, as many of you are likely suspect to, cheesecake is my favorite dessert.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 11 2012 21:32 GMT
#44
You do not like cheesecake. Seems like mafia mentality to me.

##FOS: Thrawn2112

Sincerely yours,

Mr. Cheesecake
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 12 2012 16:10 GMT
#56
On October 12 2012 18:29 Mordanis wrote:
Strawberry Rhubarb pie
Just sayin'


I am also quite fond of this. Sadly, one cannot easily find fresh Rhubarb this time of the year.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 19 2012 15:47 GMT
#104
On October 20 2012 00:34 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2012 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
/in
How will we be notified when it starts?

you f5 the tl mafia section all day like i do until a new post comes up.



Mr. Cheesecake approves of this method.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 22 2012 17:30 GMT
#120
2 more to go :o

/excited
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 00:22 GMT
#181
Greetings! Shout out to Thrawn2112; a veritable boss for hosting this game!

In response to Debears...

1.) This is my first game.
2.) 2/3 (never /obs but solo spectated some games, such as Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII)
3.) Yes, I should always be available at lynch time. The deadline is 8:00PM EST, which is very suitable for me.






But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 00:47 GMT
#194
@ "Uncle" Dan

I am of the opinion that inactive players are a good candidate for lynching. There is too much mystery involved with someone whose only contribution to the thread is nonexistent.

In regards to the noobie-card policy: I have to say that claiming inexperience is a terrible defense against any accusation. Djo in the last newbie game made several references to him being a noob (and being town), and it only served to make him seem suspicious to other players.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 01:00 GMT
#197

Hmm I wouldn't say inactive players are a better candidate. They are simply a good candidate because of their non-willingness to actively give opinions/scumhunt. It depends on the situation. In no circumstance would I vote to lynch a lurker over someone I had a decent scumread on.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 01:17 GMT
#201
Everyone's leaving so soon?

Hopefully more people see the game has started. I'll be around for another couple hours.

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 02:31 GMT
#205
On October 25 2012 10:26 debears wrote:
Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show.


You seem so sure of yourself. Scum will not always present themselves in gift-wrapping like Kush on D1. Confidence and pushing reads are important, but I think it's equally as important to realize that when some reads just aren't strong enough; you can't always get scum D1. Policy lynches are to be used in such cases.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 02:58 GMT
#207
Confidence is always heralded, of course. You mention DP's heavy pressure, but you must remember that DP was also a good example of moderation; he was willing to let his overwhelming case on Kush slide in favor of perusing other cases. He stated that it was getting them nowhere by focusing solely on Kush D1.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 04:11 GMT
#212
I need to sleep now. I'll browse the thread's developments when I wake up. Hope to see more players become active as the day progresses.

Good tidings, gentlemen.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 12:43 GMT
#279
Just woke up fella's, have a few moments to read this over and give my thoughts. In the name of brevity, I'll keep it short.

On Debears-Rad incident: Debears came out of the gate swinging; reminiscent of DP from the last newbie game. Personally, I don't like this style of hot-headed pursuit, but it can work. However, I feel the reasons he's giving for Rad being suspicious are ill-founded. There is all this talk of confidence and policy lynching, and everything seems to be a matter of personal opinion rather than a role shining through to the exterior. There may be something there in what Debears has concluded, but I cannot be sure of my opinion of Rad at this time. I'd much rather vote for a lurker atm because the evidence is just not there.

Djodref: I find him to be exceedingly odd. I first thought his initial comment of my "serious policy lynching" to be weird, but with his recent two posts I find him suspicous.

On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote:

I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town



How do you know he's town???
On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote:
@djodref

To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected.


@Roco

I have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ?
Are you mafia ?


Why would you specifically ask someone about them being mafia. What do you hope to accomplish??? I find these two statements to be suspicious as hell.

##FOS Djodref

I'll be back in about 6 hours, after my classes.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 12:47 GMT
#280
EBWOP: If I can connect to my university's wifi, I'll be checking the thread periodically.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 18:51 GMT
#380
Okay guys I'm back from class, will be on for the rest of the night.

Following up my FoS on Djodref--He's seeming more scummy as time goes on.

I'm concerned about his attitude in the thread. Check his filter, and look at how many ^^ :p, etc there are. He even uses a smiley when addressing his supposed scumslip, a time when you should be definite about your defense. He even gives Debears a <3 at some point. What is this all about? I think he's trying to show himself in a happy, innocent, and loving light; perhaps to cover up something sinister. This could just be his personality, but I don't buy it for a second.

Also, why would you say this, Djodref?

On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
my principal concern is to find the mafia.


Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here.

That's what I have to say concerning Djodref atm, and my FoS still applies.

In terms of the most active poster, Debears, I've a slight town read on him. Promoting discussion, getting people to talk. Could be scum trying to seem active, but I see no fault with him as of yet.

I'll be looking through the rest of the thread to get reads on other posters.


But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 19:06 GMT
#381
On everyone's concerns with Roco69 -- he's had two in-game posts. His one detailing experience, and then the controversial one about not being suspected. I think it's a waste of effort to dig any more into it and FoS him; there's simply nothing to go on. Imo he's just as guilty-looking as the other lurkers and I can't single him out for anything until he begins to post.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 19:27 GMT
#386
On October 26 2012 04:22 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 03:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay guys I'm back from class, will be on for the rest of the night.

Following up my FoS on Djodref--He's seeming more scummy as time goes on.

I'm concerned about his attitude in the thread. Check his filter, and look at how many ^^ :p, etc there are. He even uses a smiley when addressing his supposed scumslip, a time when you should be definite about your defense. He even gives Debears a <3 at some point. What is this all about? I think he's trying to show himself in a happy, innocent, and loving light; perhaps to cover up something sinister. This could just be his personality, but I don't buy it for a second.

Also, why would you say this, Djodref?

On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
my principal concern is to find the mafia.


Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here.

That's what I have to say concerning Djodref atm, and my FoS still applies.

In terms of the most active poster, Debears, I've a slight town read on him. Promoting discussion, getting people to talk. Could be scum trying to seem active, but I see no fault with him as of yet.

I'll be looking through the rest of the thread to get reads on other posters.

Are you seriously making a case on smilies?

The only thing that even remotely has a point is his "<3 debears", but just because it seems a bit like he's buddying him up. Not because it makes him look 'happy'.

I must admit, I'm a little bit worried about a djo+debears scumteam, but not nearly enough to even FoS either of them.
I'm also (even less) worried about a djo+daoud scumteam, since the slip and following call-out on it might have been intentional. At this point, I realize I'm getting paranoid. And I'm getting carried away with my hard-on for association cases, and I am currently trying to get away from that too.

Taking a break from thinking about this game...


Yes, I'm making a case on smiles. That kind of stuff is rhetoric and it effects how people read your posts (I.E swaying opinions). You can't say that his tone hasn't been "happy go-lucky" as someone put it.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 20:04 GMT
#388
So you're saying thats simply his meta? I'll take a look at his other games. Seemed suspicious though, as it stood out a ton from the other players.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 20:24 GMT
#390
Yeah, I think I got it. I'll pardon dj for that. I see in the last mafia game he is doing much the same in his posts, so i can't fault him for it.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 22:19 GMT
#393
On October 26 2012 06:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Let me ask everyone this: Who is more likely to plan out how they will behave day 1, town or scum?


Are both town/scum not equally as inclined to plan out actions? Each player individually, regardless of role, must elect to play aggressively, passively, or somewhere in between. I don't think either side is "more likely" to plan out d1 actions. Being a good player at anything requires foresight.

That being said, you bring up some interesting points concerning Debears and his "buzzword" of confidence. I see what you mean, however I don't read the repetition of a single word as trying to appeal to emotion. I responded to one of his early confidence posts without much thought to it. He does use the word a plethora of times, but I can't see an intentional, malevolent reason for doing so.

On October 26 2012 06:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
"You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers?

What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers.

Actually, that's a scumslip

##Vote Rad"
[b]Using backwards logic, followed by casting his vote, which he later withdrew without explaining
It's easy to retort: What do townies want? Active town. What doesn't contribute to an active town? Lurkers.


I may be having trouble reading this, the wordy is a bit odd/choppy: How is this backwards logic? Should town not be more focused on good scum reads on d1 than lurkers?

I agree that the Vote for Rad was very hasty by Debears, and I don't agree with his stance on that note. However, while I commend your post, I cannot see the ill-intentions of confidence as a buzzword.

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 23:00 GMT
#397
On October 26 2012 07:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 07:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I may be having trouble reading this, the wordy is a bit odd/choppy: How is this backwards logic? Should town not be more focused on good scum reads on d1 than lurkers?


Ofcourse town should focus on getting reads and forcing people to explain themselves.
Rad said "if we have no good lynch option we should probably lynch a semi-lurker as a policy"

debear's argument was against a strawman. Rad didn't say "fuck it, I have no clue whos scum, just lynch the lurkers".
"Anyone who wants to lynch a semi-lurker over a crappy guess/hunch must be scum" is just backwards.


Thanks for clarifying. Pun intended.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 25 2012 23:56 GMT
#408
On October 26 2012 07:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Oh ok. Guess Ill not try to make myself look like a townie in the thread. Might get mistaken as WIFOM.
So then what would be a wifom defense vs a non wifom defense? You can argue anything that way a long as you dont like it. I find just about every argument/case presented so far to be stupid and pointless.

I'm not sure how to comprehend this answer. Inig is obviously very distressed, as he's discrediting everything by calling it blatantly "stupid and pointless". Either he doesn't know how to form a coherent response to an accusation or is cracking under pressure.

I don't like the response at all. With him going afk after this, I'm beginning to get suspicious of him.

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 01:28 GMT
#425
Just got back from some dinner,

Djodref, while you're the subject of debate, I realize you haven't answered one of my questions.

On October 26 2012 03:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Also, why would you say this, Djodref?

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
my principal concern is to find the mafia.


Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here.


This is a statement you seem to make a lot. Self-explanatory / unneeded. Why do you find it necessary to explicitly mention your main concern is to hunt scum?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 01:40 GMT
#431
On October 26 2012 10:33 Rad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 10:08 Clarity_nl wrote:
So.... you're trying to get a strong response by asking what Alsn thinks Inig, which he has done to two other people before him. So what's the reason you brushed off his FoS?

On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears

You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"

Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.

You are advocating chaos.

If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.

##FoS debears


@Clarity

I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.

By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ?


On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:45 Dandel Ion wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

My comments in red in your quoted post.

On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?

I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.

##Unvote


This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo

1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch.
FUUUUUuuu. You are doing it again. Policy lynching is just an option and it is a bad option in my opinion because mafia can avoid it easily, especially when town decides to apply this strategy from the beginning. Lynching a suspicious player get us more chances to lynch mafia. We should start to scumhunt in order to do so, not throwing FoS at each other for disagreeing over policy.
2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information).
I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying it is totally possible and you should have this mentality rather than the policy lynch solution mentality. Would you like to comment about Inig by the way ?
3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have.
Please be more specific
All of these things feel scummy to me.


You don't get it.

You establish a lurker-lynch policy early.
Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die"
So they don't lurk.

If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people"
What do lurkers do when they see that?
They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set"
And then they lurk.


I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker).

Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor.
Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch.

By the way, what do you think about Inig ?

On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


@Alsn

I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me
What do you think about Inig ?





Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini.




This seems extremely suspicious to me, like scumslip suspicious, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe someone else can jump in on it? I'll think about it more in the meantime...


I think he's referring to past game they've played together, in which Alsn was much more active.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 03:08 GMT
#438
Just checking the posts before i head off to bed.... and that clarity thing was unsuspected.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 03:15 GMT
#439
I'll post on the case in a moment; I've a few things to take care of first
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 03:50 GMT
#446
On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with:

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:

@Rad

Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players.
I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads).

On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game.
Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion...


"Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean???????
So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia.


I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest.

Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me:

On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
@sylver

I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ?

I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now.

I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute.

Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest.


He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him?

Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone?
Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them.


If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town.

In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well.

The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 04:02 GMT
#449
And to respond to Djodref, since he is always asking about people's reads on Inig.

On Inig: The only two things I find suspicious about him are

A.) Him throwing a tantrum over the WIFOM incident. "This argument is stupid" etc.
B.) Semi-Lurking.

Hardly enough to go on. Until he posts more, I have an -at best- slight scum read on him.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 04:05 GMT
#450
If anyone has any questions/concerns please post now. I'm heading for bed soon, and won't be back until after my 10:00AM class (~12 hours)
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 14:58 GMT
#536
Hello gentlemen, just got home and beginning to address some questions on me.

@ Inig
I understand your concerns with this post, and I address them in bold.
On October 26 2012 16:35 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Also, I now have some suspicion on Cheesecake. I like pretty much every post hes given actually, except this one:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 08:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 26 2012 07:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Oh ok. Guess Ill not try to make myself look like a townie in the thread. Might get mistaken as WIFOM.
So then what would be a wifom defense vs a non wifom defense? You can argue anything that way a long as you dont like it. I find just about every argument/case presented so far to be stupid and pointless.

I'm not sure how to comprehend this answer. Inig is obviously very distressed, as he's discrediting everything by calling it blatantly "stupid and pointless". Either he doesn't know how to form a coherent response to an accusation or is cracking under pressure.

I don't like the response at all. With him going afk after this, I'm beginning to get suspicious of him.



Oh ya and look cheese also calls me out about being emotional and freaking out in thread. His arguments good too, although I wish he put in a 'outside mafia influences' reason as well, but thats fine. I actually have found cheese to be more likely town than I said djo was, so this is why I called this out.
-This point is not doing anything other than saying he read it. Like my earlier posts, it doesnt really contribute at all, doesnt really push me either except in the most indirect of ways. This was simply something I noticed. I read that post and went "wow" due to your emotive state. It came off as suspicious to me, as it didn't seem like you could form a decent sentence in your defense.
-The 'Im beginning to get suspicious of" me. Ive re-read my own filter. Cheese you should already be suspicious of me, not beginning to be. Ive barely been pro-town at all. I wasn't very suspicious of you at the time, for the same reasons I wasn't suspicious of Rad; too little posts, too little content. The only other thing that sent lights off in my head was you "only having town reads". This was the tipping point where you become null, to becoming slightly scum orientated in my mind.
-While those points are fun and are probably included in numerous posts in this game, I call it out because it seems like Cheese is simply trying to look good by joining a case that had potential to go somewhere (and so far has). I think what Im trying to say is that I read it and then after re-reading it I realized it had 0 content, but it looked like it did. No treally a scum-tell, but I guess I saw it because it seemed different than his other posts.The only other person who had even mentioned that post was Djodref, but he had not focused in on your "rage quit" scenario. In the context of the thread, I was the first person to point it out. I believe it was worthy of mention as it stuck out so blatantly to me.



@ Debears
On October 26 2012 13:28 debears wrote:
@cheese

On the point of djos "townie vibes". Why would he defend me if he thought i wasnt town, which he stated after he stated he had townie vibes on me?

The "townie" vibes mean he's simply leaning town on you, and didn't want to see you lynched today (in favor of prospects such as Inig.) That's the only motivation I could see behind it.

@Djo
I'll be addressing your post shortly.

Still rereading the thread and updating myself on current events.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 15:30 GMT
#546
@ Djo

On October 26 2012 13:42 Djodref wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with:

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:

@Rad

Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players.
I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads).

On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game.
Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion...


"Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean???????
So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia.


I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest.

Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me:

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
@sylver

I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ?

I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now.

I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute.

Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest.


He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him?

Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone?
Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them.


If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town.

In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well.

The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref



@Cheese

Please specify which accusations/questions I couldn't address (please refer to the part in bold font in the spoiler).
I'll try to answer adequately to them this time.


The text you put in bold regarding my thoughts on you was, specifically, a reference to the point at which Rad was asking you about not changing your arguments on policy lynching.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:
On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...

@dandel

I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker.


Could you please expand upon this?


@Clarity

I was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it.
Why did you pick on this sentence ?


As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post.
Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind"
It doesn't add up


dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it.


I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you.

Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped."

That's what you sound like with that statement djo.


@Rad

I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important...
What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ?


On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

by the way,

His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind.
Are you satisfied ?



The point that I find most interesting is when Rad says the bolded portion.

Rad thinks it's scum mentality. Your only address on the issue is essentially that "I don't care if I look scummy, this discussion is pointless, and my arguement is better". Why are you so unwavering about your opinion in this matter?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 16:03 GMT
#557
@ Djo

I responded to your post already, sir.

@ Kush

Interesting take on Da0ud. I don't like his voting of Inig at all, especially when Inig has debunked arguments in a concise manner and has begun to ask questions as of late. I really need Da0ud to post more before I can get a concrete read on him.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 16:56 GMT
#576
On October 27 2012 01:17 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 00:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@ Djo

On October 26 2012 13:42 Djodref wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with:

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:

@Rad

Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players.
I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads).

On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game.
Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion...


"Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean???????
So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia.


I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest.

Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me:

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
@sylver

I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ?

I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now.

I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute.

Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest.


He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him?

Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone?
Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them.


If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town.

In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well.

The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref



@Cheese

Please specify which accusations/questions I couldn't address (please refer to the part in bold font in the spoiler).
I'll try to answer adequately to them this time.


The text you put in bold regarding my thoughts on you was, specifically, a reference to the point at which Rad was asking you about not changing your arguments on policy lynching.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:
On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...

@dandel

I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker.


Could you please expand upon this?


@Clarity

I was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it.
Why did you pick on this sentence ?


As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post.
Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind"
It doesn't add up


dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it.


I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you.

Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped."

That's what you sound like with that statement djo.


@Rad

I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important...
What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ?


On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

by the way,

His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind.
Are you satisfied ?



The point that I find most interesting is when Rad says the bolded portion.

Rad thinks it's scum mentality. Your only address on the issue is essentially that "I don't care if I look scummy, this discussion is pointless, and my arguement is better". Why are you so unwavering about your opinion in this matter?


@ Cheese

I have missed your post. Regarding this point, I've have misunderstood Rad's arguments against me. I thought he was calling me out on this point while he was bringing the my stance on a more general level. That's why I found it totally stupid and I didn't want to discuss about it anymore.
I've tried to address it in two previous posts. I did not have feedback on the last one so tell me what do you think of it.

first one

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 14:14 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my opinion on anything. For example, I've already changed my opinion about you (from scummy to light townie). I'm saying that I'm not going to change my opinion on a particular point. I didn't want to discuss about it anymore because I don't think that this particular point is relevant at all.
This particular point is when to agree on applying lurker policy lynch. I was discussing it with dandel. If you have something else in mind, then I would like you to tell me exactly what it is.

dandel would have liked us to agree to follow a strong lurker policy for this game at the beginning of D1. He presented his reasons for it and I found them totally acceptable, I even admitted them they were good. He has backed up his arguments with experience.
But I disagree with such a strategy because I firmly believe that it is quite easy for the mafia to avoid a lynch for lurking, pushing some mislynch on lurky townies and use this strategy for their benefit. And I'm not going to change my mind about it.


second one

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 20:53 Djodref wrote:
On October 26 2012 14:34 Rad wrote:
On October 26 2012 14:21 Djodref wrote:
@Rad

So your main concern about me was I said that I wouldn't change my mind ?
Do you have other concerns ?

Did you understand I was only speaking about a particular point (agreeing that a strict lurker policy should be part of our strategy) ?


My original concerns came from the "confidence" ordeal from before. As I found with debears, that can turn out to be a huge ordeal and I'll address it again if I feel the need to.

My concerns about your unwillingness to change your stance on something regardless of the arguments provided are still there. To me, as I've stated, this feels like a scummy perspective. I can't see a good reason for a townie to not be open to changing their opinions on something based on further arguments. "No no no not going to budge on this!" feels scummy. "Let me hear your points, ok, I disagree and here's why" feels townie.

It was the way you handled the questions. It doesn't matter that it was about just a particular point, or even if that point mattered in the end, but that you were so specific about never changing your opinion on it regardless of the arguments provided. It didn't feel like a townie move, so I can only suspect scum, but furthermore, you've dodged my questions until now. Why? If you can so simply answer them now, why didn't you do it before? You clearly saw them, acknowledged them, but didn't answer them. Instead, you said you were done with me.

Going to have to look over all this in more depth tomorrow as I'm getting tired and need to wind down.


@Rad

I gave more thoughts about your post and I've decided that I should try to address your concern in a better way than my last attempt. I understand that I need to answer the 2 following questions, please correct me if I am wrong
1)Why I was not open to change my stance ?
2)Why I was dodging this question at first ?

1) I wasn't open to change my stance because I think that enforcing a strict lurker policy is a bad strategy for town. I was quite stubborn on this point because I have seem some games where people forgot to scumhunt because they were relying on the policy too much. Except for this point, I believe that I can be quite open minded. I would go as far as to reconsider my position on the policy, given the incredible amount of lurkers that we have in this game.

2)I've been dodging your questions because I didn't understand the nature of your concern. I thought you were asking me about this particular point which I thought I had already addressed. That's why I gave you the same answer again and again. But I understand now that you were more concerned about my general state of mind which would lead me to not discuss anything. I wanted to end this discussion with dandel about the policy because it didn't really matter for me to agree with him or not. For me, disagreeing on policy is natural. What really counts is the general consistency of a player and whether or not he gives good reasons when he changes his mind. I felt like we were done talking about this with dandel and I wanted to close the subject while giving my final stance about it. After all, this is only policy discussion, which should be less relevant than scumhunting discussion.





@ Djo

That is exactly explanation I was looking for, thank you bringing it to the forefront. The second quote is a bit bulky... Read the part I bolded. If you were worried about people not scumhunting, why be so stubborn? You could have conceded your position on it and people would have moved on to scumhunt. I don't think people simply "forget" to scumhunt due to a lurker policy.

That's my concern with your decision: If you want people to scumhunt, why get people riled up over your defense and divert attention from scumhunting?

@ Dandel


What's all this stuff about you being confused and unsure? Yeah, the thread is jampacked with goodies concerning multiple participants, but that's to be expected. Don't try to play the "confused" card. It's almost as bad as the "noobie-card"
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 17:14 GMT
#582
@Sylverfyre

Djo provided us with some comprehensive quotes about your interaction with him. I'm inclined to agree that a few of your reasons aren't specific enough. Granted, my vote is still on him at this point--I'd like to know, specifically, what are your biggest scum tells concerning Djo?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 18:10 GMT
#594
Just a heads up folks--I may or may not be around for lynch time this evening. Something of grave importance has sprung up, and it needs attending to. I hope I can make it and post my thoughts pre-lynch. Gotta go for now.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 23:20 GMT
#647
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

On Inig:

Honestly, I have no idea why people suddenly started piling on top of him. I found him -slightly- suspicious after his emotional outburst and semi-lurking. However, since then he has been asking questions (to myself included) and improving his post count. The cases against him are weak, imo. I've read through them I don't see much of a reason to lynch him. His vote on Imcasey I don't view as scum-intentioned; it was an attempt to draw out the lurker. I don't think scum would be that bold, because a vote like that would (and surely did) draw attention. That is not at all blending in.

His recent vote on Dandel, however, doesn't make sense from any role viewpoint I think, so I don't know what to think about that. I'll be reading more into his posts about Dandel later.

On Da0ud:


I skimmed through the cases concerning him, and by my own standards think he is more scummy-looking than Inig.

In particular, this post about the modkill.

On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote:
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content.


We all saw the modkill. This isn't contributing anything. Why talk about it? A townie died, there's nothing we can do about it, especially since he basically suicided. This is a useless topic.

Then, there is the entire percentage-based town read on Djo. I believe Kush mentioned this. 90% town on the first day? I most surely don't see it that way, and a 90% town read based on little concrete evidence? I don't get it.

In addition, he's a semi-lurker / blending in.

There is also an entire meta-arguement against him as well. I cannot address this as I know nothing of his previous game meta.

This being said, I find Da0ud to be much more scummier than Inig.

##Vote: Da0ud

I apologize for not being here sooner and for this post being somewhat rushed; I had a personal matter to attend to that required my immediate assistance.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 23:21 GMT
#650
EBWOP: Forgot to ##Unvote, then ##Vote: Da0ud
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 23:41 GMT
#665
On October 27 2012 08:31 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

On Inig:

Honestly, I have no idea why people suddenly started piling on top of him. I found him -slightly- suspicious after his emotional outburst and semi-lurking. However, since then he has been asking questions (to myself included) and improving his post count. The cases against him are weak, imo. I've read through them I don't see much of a reason to lynch him. His vote on Imcasey I don't view as scum-intentioned; it was an attempt to draw out the lurker. I don't think scum would be that bold, because a vote like that would (and surely did) draw attention. That is not at all blending in.

His recent vote on Dandel, however, doesn't make sense from any role viewpoint I think, so I don't know what to think about that. I'll be reading more into his posts about Dandel later.

On Da0ud:


I skimmed through the cases concerning him, and by my own standards think he is more scummy-looking than Inig.

In particular, this post about the modkill.

On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote:
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content.


We all saw the modkill. This isn't contributing anything. Why talk about it? A townie died, there's nothing we can do about it, especially since he basically suicided. This is a useless topic.

Then, there is the entire percentage-based town read on Djo. I believe Kush mentioned this. 90% town on the first day? I most surely don't see it that way, and a 90% town read based on little concrete evidence? I don't get it.

In addition, he's a semi-lurker / blending in.

There is also an entire meta-arguement against him as well. I cannot address this as I know nothing of his previous game meta.

This being said, I find Da0ud to be much more scummier than Inig.

##Vote: Da0ud

I apologize for not being here sooner and for this post being somewhat rushed; I had a personal matter to attend to that required my immediate assistance.


Really? The cases against inig are bad? When have you even addressed the inig cases?

And how are the cases weak when you're accusing dauod of the same?


I never said the cases were bad; don't twist my words. I said they were weak from my point of view. You made a case against Inig, yes? The only thing I found relevant was his post that spread suspicion on multiple people but only followed up on Dandel. You referenced the post that Inig made against me, which I thought was a decent attempt to get answers for things he deemed odd.

What am I accusing Da0ud of thats the same as Inig, Debears?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 26 2012 23:56 GMT
#675
On October 27 2012 08:46 debears wrote:
Bad word choice on my part. Bad = weak in my post.

And the same points on inig and dauod.
1) semi lurker
2) town reads/ percent town reads
3) generally blending in

Give me


Allow me to ameliorate for you, sir.

1.) Inig was a semi lurker to begin with. As of late, he has been posting more and with greater content. Da0ud, on the other hand, has contributed much less and is still lurking.

2.) Let's look at both of their percentage town reads.
Inigs:
On October 26 2012 16:17 Inigmaticalism wrote:
I would label Djo as like 70% town. Hes been consistent and contributing. I think hes gone after me too long to be mafia. He has talked an awful lot though. Its probably more likely, with all his questions and style of scumhunting, thats hes a vigi or SK or something like that, seeing who he can get lynched (who he thinks is scum if hes vigi, etc), and then who he cant hes found his night targets. Just a thought.


Da0ud's:
On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.


Inig has more reason for considering Djo town, and puts it at 70% (leaning town). He says he's been consistent, obviously posting alot, and going after him of all people. He likes this, and even offers some counter-roles that he could be instead of mafia.

Da0ud on the other hand only says "hey, he's asking questions, must be 90% (almost definitely town)" I find Da0uds reasons for thinking Djo town less plausible than Inigs, and he almost considers him town.

3.) Inig has been more distinguished in asking questions / contributing. His theory on Dandel is intriguing and unique, and something I may want to follow up on in the future. His vote of imcasey and Dandel is anything BUT blending in.

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 00:11 GMT
#688
On October 27 2012 09:10 kushm4sta wrote:
sighhh he should have claimed.


He wasn't around anyway to do so :/
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 01:07 GMT
#697
On October 27 2012 09:43 debears wrote:
Very impressive guys

We lynch the fucking jailkeeper, and all I see is "he should of claimed" and "hrm".

What the hell? This isn't suspicious as hell. Inig was at the top of the vote column and then suddenly this dauod lynch gains momentum for reasons that differed slightly from Inig's case? Not only that, he wasn't there to defend himself and NO ONE ELSE WAS DEFENDING HIM FFS. How is that not a sign of town???? WHY THE FUCK WOULD MAFIA BUS SOMEONE LIKE HIM WHEN INIG WAS THE LEADING VOTE GETTER. Is it not telling how suddenly momentum on Dauod came about? Inig comes in and says some stuff and everyone goes "oh he's noob town obviously". Just awesome.

double FOS Inig

I'm going to fucking cool off so I don't shoot myself. I'll look over the thead and figure this out

FOS anyone who voted for Inig

I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Could you slow down and post more a little more coherently?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 13:38 GMT
#720
@ Djo

On October 27 2012 20:50 kushm4sta wrote:
@djo america was still sleeping. chill out.

^ This

On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

/snip


@ Cheese

At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ?
You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ?
You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ?

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch.


Pushing your lynch at that point would have been wasted effort. It wasn't long before lynch when I got home, and I was the only one still with a vote on you. You even said so yourself. Everyone else was piled on top of Inig and Da0ud. I was put in a position where deciding whether Inig/Da0ud was the best candidate for lynch. I looked over both filters and some of the cases, and concluded that my scumread was way stronger on Da0ud than Inig.

That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched.

On October 27 2012 22:06 kushm4sta wrote:
Someone give me a meta read on debears. Is he usually this angry and rambunctious? I don't know his meta but it seems kind of fake to me.

And also his little stunt in the pony thread could be something to try to convince people following that thread that he is town.
(I actually did this when I got mafia several games ago)


@Kush


In reading the last newbie game (You know the one), Debears was all over the place in terms of reads as a townie. Some players even thought that all of his different cases were an attempt to "derail the thread" and "promote chaos". In d1, I'd say that's fairly consistent with his meta. This recent nonsensical outburst, however, leaves me with some ill feelings. It seems uncharacteristic, but whether this comes as a response to genuine anger or not is unknown. I'm curious to see his explanation.

In terms of the pony thread, I'd say leave it alone. It bears no effect on this game.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 14:40 GMT
#736
On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:
"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched."

@ Cheese

Here is a quote from you.

Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref


As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.
Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell.
Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ?
No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch.

And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ?

FoS Cheese


I appreciate your comment, Djodref. A lynch on you was "not possible" so close to the deadline when I returned (~45-30mins before lynch). I did want to get you lynched, but convincing everyone in such a time frame was not possible with everyone on Da0ud/inig. In my vote post of Da0ud I stated clearly that I still considered you highly suspicious, but I had to decide if Da0ud or Inig was a better case. What use is protesting everyone else, "calling them stupid" as you suggest, and pushing my case on you? That is simply advocating chaos in my book, and it's not my way of thinking; I will not flame the entire town for considering two other options than what I would rather pursue so close to deadline.

My efforts were best spent deciding who was scummier. Pushing you till the end, and not weighing in on the debate at hand was illogical. This being said, you are still my biggest scumread and my FoS from d1 still applies to you.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 14:40 GMT
#739
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:03 GMT
#748
On October 27 2012 23:57 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:57 kushm4sta wrote:
I knew the daoud case wasn't that great. But i thought it was better than any other so that's why I voted for it... I said this a million times.

People theorizing scumteams are being dumb. There I said it again. And that makes me scum ?? lol

It's a well known tenant of forum mafia that you don't theorize scumteams before one of them flips (unless you are at the very end of the game)


Agreed. Guys listen to me and Kush on this one


I'm very much inclined to agree on this point. Until we have a red flip, theorizing scumteams is pointless.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:07 GMT
#752
On October 28 2012 00:02 kushm4sta wrote:
Also thanks for all your shitty suspicion.I hope it keeps me from getting nk.


Didn't Kush make this exact statement in the previous newbie game where he was scum?

Here it is:

Oh, I found it.

On September 28 2012 09:40 kushm4sta wrote:
thank you now I won't be nk


But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:26 GMT
#756
Concerning Kush...

I'll be honest, I don't like his play. I read somewhere that he had a "scummy meta", but it just seems arrogant to me. However, The FoS's against him are based heavily on meta in general and I find him difficult to read as of yet.

@Debears
On October 27 2012 23:55 debears wrote:

Kush is attacking people who he wants to and selectively using meta when it furthers his agenda. That, my friends, is a scumtell.



What exactly in your opinion is Kush's agenda right now?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:30 GMT
#759
I saw the NK comment, and I agree that it is very scummy considering he's been known to say the exact same thing in other games where he was scum.

But what exactly is he trying to accomplish if his agenda is mafia-orientated? Single people out?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:43 GMT
#763
On October 28 2012 00:34 debears wrote:
Cheese,

What kind of townie has an agenda?
You don't know what anyone else is, so how can you plan to lynch people? How can you know who to push for sure?


A towns course of action is to find and unveil the scummiest person--of course town cannot know for sure who to push. In terms of Kush, he is calling you out because he thinks you have conflicting meta. Are you saying it's scummy to do so? Perhaps I don't completely understand your FoS post about the entire meta arguement.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:51 GMT
#765
On October 28 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:
"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched."

@ Cheese

Here is a quote from you.

On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref


As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.
Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell.
Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ?
No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch.

And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ?

FoS Cheese


I appreciate your comment, Djodref. A lynch on you was "not possible" so close to the deadline when I returned (~45-30mins before lynch). I did want to get you lynched, but convincing everyone in such a time frame was not possible with everyone on Da0ud/inig. In my vote post of Da0ud I stated clearly that I still considered you highly suspicious, but I had to decide if Da0ud or Inig was a better case. What use is protesting everyone else, "calling them stupid" as you suggest, and pushing my case on you? That is simply advocating chaos in my book, and it's not my way of thinking; I will not flame the entire town for considering two other options than what I would rather pursue so close to deadline.

My efforts were best spent deciding who was scummier. Pushing you till the end, and not weighing in on the debate at hand was illogical. This being said, you are still my biggest scumread and my FoS from d1 still applies to you.


@ Cheese

I think you should have made this kind of explanation at that time. Didn't you feel a little frustrated ?


Of course I was frustrated. I come back to the thread and votes are stacked high on two other people. But is it really constructive to moan and groan about it? No. As I stated, energy was rather spent contributing to the lynch at hand. If you think crowding the thread with "My god people, why do we have these guys up for lynch?" is a better alternative, then you are sadly mistake.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 15:57 GMT
#768
On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?


@ Kush

It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.

You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment.


I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 16:04 GMT
#771
Why do you find it necessary to have me frustrated? I wasn't going to project frustration or anger it in this case, because it isn't constructive in the least bit. One of those two people were going to be lynched no matter what I did; I just wanted to steer it in, what I believed, the better direction. I cared about who was being lynched: The one I saw as being scummier looking.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 16:06 GMT
#772
On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?


@ Kush

It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.

You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment.


I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip.


@ Cheese

townie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla
scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla

But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll.


@Everyone

What are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 16:15 GMT
#776
I'm going to go grab some lunch, I'll be back in roughly one hours time. Hope to see some other people's thoughts on Kush, myself, etc. I would especially like to see an Inig post. Good afternoon, gentlemen.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 17:58 GMT
#791
On October 28 2012 01:55 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 00:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:47 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:
"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched."

@ Cheese

Here is a quote from you.

On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref


As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.
Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell.
Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ?
No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch.

And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ?

FoS Cheese


I appreciate your comment, Djodref. A lynch on you was "not possible" so close to the deadline when I returned (~45-30mins before lynch). I did want to get you lynched, but convincing everyone in such a time frame was not possible with everyone on Da0ud/inig. In my vote post of Da0ud I stated clearly that I still considered you highly suspicious, but I had to decide if Da0ud or Inig was a better case. What use is protesting everyone else, "calling them stupid" as you suggest, and pushing my case on you? That is simply advocating chaos in my book, and it's not my way of thinking; I will not flame the entire town for considering two other options than what I would rather pursue so close to deadline.

My efforts were best spent deciding who was scummier. Pushing you till the end, and not weighing in on the debate at hand was illogical. This being said, you are still my biggest scumread and my FoS from d1 still applies to you.


@ Cheese

I think you should have made this kind of explanation at that time. Didn't you feel a little frustrated ?


Of course I was frustrated. I come back to the thread and votes are stacked high on two other people. But is it really constructive to moan and groan about it? No. As I stated, energy was rather spent contributing to the lynch at hand. If you think crowding the thread with "My god people, why do we have these guys up for lynch?" is a better alternative, then you are sadly mistake.


@ Cheese

Well, if you really think that the two other people are less worth a lynch than your top scumread (which what your case I think, given the poor interest you had in daoud before you decided to lynch him), I think it is your responsibility as town to stand up and push your lynch. I'm sorry but I'm thinking that you are the one mistaken here.
No matter how late it is in the thread, you should try to push your top scumread. Otherwise, mafia is just going to push the townies everyday.

You're kidding me. How would pushing my case on you with less than an hour to go result in getting you lynched? I would have to persuade, what, 6 people in that time frame? Many of who weren't there at the time. I would rather give my opinion on the two people that are dividing the town and ensure that the scummiest get lynched.

In reference to the bold section, don't be a hypocrite. Your top scumread was Inig for the entiriety of d1, then out of nowhere you vote Da0ud, with little to no explanation. Also, who else would mafia push?

Also, I'll be posting my case on you later, likely after daybreak.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 18:22 GMT
#798
I'm out for a few hours, I'll be back in advance for the day post.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 19:51 GMT
#821
On October 28 2012 04:30 Rad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 04:23 kushm4sta wrote:
On October 28 2012 04:16 Rad wrote:
On October 28 2012 04:14 kushm4sta wrote:
On October 28 2012 04:12 Rad wrote:
@kush

On October 11 2012 06:51 kushm4sta wrote:
haha this cheesecake guy seems awesome... i wish i could in this game so badly


On October 11 2012 06:52 kushm4sta wrote:
/obs


On October 16 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
can an obs replace? if not remove me from obs.
also one of you better afk so I can replace. I love this cheesecake guy...but why did you have to bring up my fail TT


You /obs and then drop /obs JUST in case you get the chance to replace someone.

You've replaced someone. You're in! You can talk to mr. cheesecake now!

Why haven't you said one thing to him or about him yet?


The only reason I would talk to someone is if they ask me a question or if I think they are scum.


But you /obs'd, and then asked to be removed for the sole reason of wanting to play with mr. cheesecake.

It makes no sense that you wouldn't at the very lease say something to him when you finally get the chance to play the game for the sole reason you wanted to play the game.


It was not for the SOLE reason of playing with mr cheesecake. And yes it makes perfect sense that I didn't say anything to him because I had nothing to say. I didn't want to clutter the thread with stuff that wasn't contributing.

Also what would I say? Hey cheesecake I like your name still?



It WAS the sole reason. You wanted to obs, then you backed out because you wanted to get a chance to play with mr cheesecake.

What would you say? Anything to make him talk. He was being hilarious pre-game and you wanted more, so you dropped obs for the CHANCE to play with him.

Why have absolutely no communication with him when that's the main reason you're in this game?

Could it be because you're talking to him behind the scenes?

FoS Mr. Cheesecake

Double FoS Kush


Is this a scumteam association case based on pre-game banter? How does pre-game stuff have any relevance to this at all?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 27 2012 23:30 GMT
#853
MY OPINION ON DJODREF
A compilation of quotes, and reasons why I believe he is guilty

By: Mr. Cheesecake

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Scumslip
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:09 da0ud wrote:
On October 25 2012 17:52 Djodref wrote:
I'm insisting on this because it was not my mentality at all at the beginning of NMMXVIII, you case see this in my quotes in debear previous posts. I want the "scared" newbies (like daoud) to boost their confidence and go scumhunt.


I am not scared anymore... And I will hunt you down this time if I have to


daoud

Good !

I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town

What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way?
Here is the infamous scumslip by Djo, he refers to Da0ud explicitly as town (who we now know IS town). There is little to say here: How does Djo know Da0ud is town? He doesn't even have a reason to think he's town. He even votes for Da0ud which I will address later.
Furthermore, Djo provides us with the weakest defense for a scumslip ever:
On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:30 da0ud wrote:
EBWOP : How would you already know I am town ?


I don't know already if you are town or not. I've spoken too fast because I was thinking of our last game where you were town. It was a slip, but not a scumslip

Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^

All he says is "Not a scumslip, please move along" and plays it off like no big deal with a characteristic smiley and ^^. This explanation is nowhere near adequate enough to address the issue.


“Are you Mafia?" Question
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote:
@djodref

To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected.

@Roco

I have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ?
Are you mafia ?

I first picked up on this in my original FoS post. Why would you ask someone explicitly if they are mafia? What is even the PURPOSE of this? Is he attempting to arouse suspicion for Roco?

On October 26 2012 01:12 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:00 sylverfyre wrote:
And Djo, you claim "no i asked him two questions" when both questions are basically the same.

debears case against Rad is developing interestingly, but Rad has a point - why are you trying so hard to save the lurkers?


@sylver

I'm sorry but not wanting to look suspicious is totally natural from a townie, especially from a total newbie. Adding the second question was only to make him uncomfortable if he was mafia.

How on God's green Earth would asking someone if they are mafia make them uncomfortable? All a scum player would need to rebuke it is: No. There is zero town motivation for asking someone if they are mafia.


His Questions about Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
It is obvious from the very beginning that Djo is suspicious of Ini. He asks everyone about what they think of him.
Firstly: Why would Djo care what anyone else thinks? If his scum read were strong enough, he'd have the confidence (there's that word again...) to make a case without input from a third party.
Secondly: He sometimes asks these questions in context of something else, as if to brush off some accusation against him.
On October 25 2012 18:51 Djodref wrote:
@daoud

What do you think about Ini ?

On October 25 2012 23:21 Djodref wrote:
@debears

If you are around, I would like to know what do you think about Inig first posts.

On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:

I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.

By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ?

He throws out two questions, one of them being about inig. What does Inig have anything to do with the discussion at hand? The only reason I can see for it is an attempt to derail the thread into something about Inig.

On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


@Alsn

I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me
What do you think about Inig ?

He completely brushes off the FoS from Alsn and asks about Inig instead.
On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:

Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini.
AGAIN, brushing off the FoS from Alsn, in favor of pursing interests of Ini.

These questions are nothing more than attempts to deflect discussion, away from him or otherwise, onto something else.


An Appeal to Emotion
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:24 debears wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears

You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"

Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.

You are advocating chaos.

If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.

##FoS debears


Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it?

Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out

Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me???


I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game
I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time.

debears <3

This is an outright appeal to emotion. He's feeling bad about last game, sure. Why bring it up? It bears no significance to anything in the thread other than making us feel bad for him. He even gives Debears a <3... really?


180 on Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud

Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far...
Please note that this is the entire vote post.
This is 100% completely contradictory to everything Djo has previously said / advocated about Inig. He had a case on Inig, he was always asking those questions about him. Inig was, apparently, his biggest scum read. Why the sudden 180 degree turn and vote for Da0ud? It makes no sense whatsoever, and his explanation for dropping the vote was "I'm really starting to doubt myself about Inig's case..." and his reason for voting Da0ud is: "his involvement hasn't been great." Hardly enough to justify a revote.


Djo's attempt to discredit me
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese

What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it !

Here he advocates that I choose a side on the Da0ud-Inig debate, which I eventually did once I returned. Also: why is he so paranoid about my vote on him?
On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

/snip


@ Cheese

At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ?
You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ?
You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ?

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch.

This post contradicts the previous. He explicitly TOLD me to weigh in on the debate and cast my vote for one of the others. Why the heck is he calling me out for it? Is this not what he asked for from me?

On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:

As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.


And here Djo is trying to further his case about my vote of Da0ud. There is a portion after the lynch where I try to explain to him that my biggest scumread was still on him. That pursuing his case at the time would have produced nothing; that I voted for Da0ud because he looked scummier than Inig; Check either of our filters about it. (page 38ish of the thread).

He seems sour that I have a scumread / FoS on him and a vote most of the day. This entire ploy to discredit me is baseless, and likely an attempt to thwart my future attempts at scum hunting him.


General Thread Clutter (my opinion)
+ Show Spoiler +
Admittedly some of it is defense, his filter is huge and he's talking on absolutely every page. The thread doesn't need to know every thought that pops in your head. A large majority is just casual conversation without his own input on certain subjects. Is this an attempt to bury logical arguements? He's trying to post a lot to seem like he's contributing, but I find most of his questions/concerns pointless. Take the "scumtell on Kush" post. I don't think anyone in the thread thought it was a scumtell, but he made a fuss over it.


A Final Note
+ Show Spoiler +
Look at who Djodref has suspicions (FoS's) on. Me and Sylverfyre. I oppose him, and Sylverfyre has tunneled him hard. His best scum reads are on people that find him highly suspicious! What does this say? He's scared. He's scared and replying by digging up any dirt he can on us.


After synthesizing all of what you have posted Djo, the jig is up. You are SCUM
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 00:19 GMT
#869
My god...
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 00:21 GMT
#873
A wild Djo appears?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 00:53 GMT
#883
@Djo

I find it odd that you suddenly find a reason for Sylver being killed and flipping blue so quickly. I believe this indicates that you were thinking about it beforehand.

It's also odd that specifically Sylver, the one who was tunneling you so hard late d1, is found dead.

On October 28 2012 09:31 Djodref wrote:
By the way, if mafia is blue sniping, I would think that they have nobody on their ass right now.


An attempt to divert attention away from yourself.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 14:27 GMT
#918
I have a few minutes so here are my reads:

Djo is scum or SK - I am sure of it. I have little reason to vote anyone else at this point
Dandel is leaning scummy for me; he completely avoided one of my questions:
On October 27 2012 01:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@ Dandel

What's all this stuff about you being confused and unsure? Yeah, the thread is jampacked with goodies concerning multiple participants, but that's to be expected. Don't try to play the "confused" card. It's almost as bad as the "noobie-card"

I find this especially odd since you've advocated against using the noobie card, then proceed to use the confused card which is just as bad.

Rad is leaning town for me. Although that association case between me + Kush bore no merit at all.
Debears. Hard to tell. Pretty null, especially since we haven't heard from him in a while.
Nackhtogger. He's afk.
Roco. He's afk.
Inig. He has a few walls of text that are exactly that: Walls of text. A little scumhunting here or there but I don't see a reason that I should consider town as of yet.
Alsn. I see his case on Dandel. I agree that he looks fairly scummy at this point. But I'm sticking by my Djo lynch unless someone can seriously convince me otherwise.
I'm very interested in hearing from the two lurkers, Inig, and Debears on their thoughts on everyone including myself but especially Djo/Dandel.

To get this out of the way:
##Vote: Djodref
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 15:31 GMT
#946
On October 28 2012 23:57 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 23:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I have a few minutes so here are my reads:

Djo is scum or SK - I am sure of it. I have little reason to vote anyone else at this point
Dandel is leaning scummy for me; he completely avoided one of my questions:
On October 27 2012 01:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@ Dandel

What's all this stuff about you being confused and unsure? Yeah, the thread is jampacked with goodies concerning multiple participants, but that's to be expected. Don't try to play the "confused" card. It's almost as bad as the "noobie-card"

I find this especially odd since you've advocated against using the noobie card, then proceed to use the confused card which is just as bad.

Rad is leaning town for me. Although that association case between me + Kush bore no merit at all.
Debears. Hard to tell. Pretty null, especially since we haven't heard from him in a while.
Nackhtogger. He's afk.
Roco. He's afk.
Inig. He has a few walls of text that are exactly that: Walls of text. A little scumhunting here or there but I don't see a reason that I should consider town as of yet.
Alsn. I see his case on Dandel. I agree that he looks fairly scummy at this point. But I'm sticking by my Djo lynch unless someone can seriously convince me otherwise.
I'm very interested in hearing from the two lurkers, Inig, and Debears on their thoughts on everyone including myself but especially Djo/Dandel.

To get this out of the way:
##Vote: Djodref


@ Cheese

You cannot accuse me of being an SK. Don't you remember that you have used my slip in your case against me ?
I should have more information than you in this game. The SK had no access to the info that daoud was scum.

You are going back on my scumlist, Mr.Cheese. Also I found it strange that you have made no comments on my defense against your case. You sure are not open to change your mind about me.


I have you pinned as scum right now. You are anything but town. In the off chance that you aren't scum, you are the SK. The word "Maybe" was in order in my post. That being said, I read your regards on my case on you; and I'll address them at a later time (preparing for hurricane Sandy here, east coast ftl).

@Dandel

You are completely cracking under pressure right now, and walking a fine line. I suggest you stop flaming and produce something coherent. A case on your best scum read, perhaps. You aren't doing anything constructive.

My vote is for Djodref, but if you continue this scummy behavior I'd consider switching it to you. As bad as I wan't Djo lynched, recent events are showing you as very red.

I really hope lurkers show up to provide some insight.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 15:49 GMT
#947
On October 28 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 08:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
MY OPINION ON DJODREF
A compilation of quotes, and reasons why I believe he is guilty

By: Mr. Cheesecake

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Scumslip
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:09 da0ud wrote:
On October 25 2012 17:52 Djodref wrote:
I'm insisting on this because it was not my mentality at all at the beginning of NMMXVIII, you case see this in my quotes in debear previous posts. I want the "scared" newbies (like daoud) to boost their confidence and go scumhunt.


I am not scared anymore... And I will hunt you down this time if I have to


daoud

Good !

I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town

What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way?
Here is the infamous scumslip by Djo, he refers to Da0ud explicitly as town (who we now know IS town). There is little to say here: How does Djo know Da0ud is town? He doesn't even have a reason to think he's town. He even votes for Da0ud which I will address later.
Furthermore, Djo provides us with the weakest defense for a scumslip ever:
On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:30 da0ud wrote:
EBWOP : How would you already know I am town ?


I don't know already if you are town or not. I've spoken too fast because I was thinking of our last game where you were town. It was a slip, but not a scumslip

Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^

All he says is "Not a scumslip, please move along" and plays it off like no big deal with a characteristic smiley and ^^. This explanation is nowhere near adequate enough to address the issue.

Town can slip and mafia can slip.You have to pay attention to the context of the sentence. I'm saying that I'm not going to defend him this game, in contrast of our previous game where I knew he was town, I guess my brain makes a wrong connection and there is a slip. My explanation was adequate the first time by the way.
Also I would like you to check my filter of my last game where I was mafia and find a slip in my filter. There is none because I have really paid attention to what I post. It's not the case in this game.

“Are you Mafia?" Question
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote:
@djodref

To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected.

@Roco

I have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ?
Are you mafia ?

I first picked up on this in my original FoS post. Why would you ask someone explicitly if they are mafia? What is even the PURPOSE of this? Is he attempting to arouse suspicion for Roco?

On October 26 2012 01:12 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:00 sylverfyre wrote:
And Djo, you claim "no i asked him two questions" when both questions are basically the same.

debears case against Rad is developing interestingly, but Rad has a point - why are you trying so hard to save the lurkers?


@sylver

I'm sorry but not wanting to look suspicious is totally natural from a townie, especially from a total newbie. Adding the second question was only to make him uncomfortable if he was mafia.

How on God's green Earth would asking someone if they are mafia make them uncomfortable? All a scum player would need to rebuke it is: No. There is zero town motivation for asking someone if they are mafia.

There is also no mafia motivation for it. This point is not relevant in my opinion.
Anyway, I wanted to pressure him, it was also sarcastic. Being called mafia in plain sight makes you feel uncomfortable regardless of how easy you can brush it off.

His Questions about Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
It is obvious from the very beginning that Djo is suspicious of Ini. He asks everyone about what they think of him.
Firstly: Why would Djo care what anyone else thinks? If his scum read were strong enough, he'd have the confidence (there's that word again...) to make a case without input from a third party.
Secondly: He sometimes asks these questions in context of something else, as if to brush off some accusation against him.
On October 25 2012 18:51 Djodref wrote:
@daoud

What do you think about Ini ?

On October 25 2012 23:21 Djodref wrote:
@debears

If you are around, I would like to know what do you think about Inig first posts.

On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:

I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.

By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ?

He throws out two questions, one of them being about inig. What does Inig have anything to do with the discussion at hand? The only reason I can see for it is an attempt to derail the thread into something about Inig.

On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


@Alsn

I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me
What do you think about Inig ?

He completely brushes off the FoS from Alsn and asks about Inig instead.
On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:

Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini.
AGAIN, brushing off the FoS from Alsn, in favor of pursing interests of Ini.

These questions are nothing more than attempts to deflect discussion, away from him or otherwise, onto something else.

I was trying to push my scumread. I wanted to see what people had to say about Ini because it could have been evidence against them for later if Ini had flipped red. Brushing off Alsn FoS like this was regrettable but I did try to address some other attacks against me in the meantime.
An Appeal to Emotion
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:24 debears wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears

You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"

Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.

You are advocating chaos.

If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.

##FoS debears


Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it?

Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out

Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me???


I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game
I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time.

debears <3

This is an outright appeal to emotion. He's feeling bad about last game, sure. Why bring it up? It bears no significance to anything in the thread other than making us feel bad for him. He even gives Debears a <3... really?

debears asked me a question, I answered why. I gave debears some <3 in my other game when I was town.
180 on Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud

Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far...
Please note that this is the entire vote post.
This is 100% completely contradictory to everything Djo has previously said / advocated about Inig. He had a case on Inig, he was always asking those questions about him. Inig was, apparently, his biggest scum read. Why the sudden 180 degree turn and vote for Da0ud? It makes no sense whatsoever, and his explanation for dropping the vote was "I'm really starting to doubt myself about Inig's case..." and his reason for voting Da0ud is: "his involvement hasn't been great." Hardly enough to justify a revote.

I've made a case against Ini. He has answered to it and started to contribute in a better way so I have changed my mind about him. Stop cherry-picking and go read my filter. To be more precise, I'm still thinking there are scummy things in Ini's filter but I was feeling him honest and sincere. How can I possibly vote a guy when I have a feeling like this ?
Regarding daoud, I did not want to lynch him. My vote on daoud was just to avoid a modkill...

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese

What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it !

Here he advocates that I choose a side on the Da0ud-Inig debate, which I eventually did once I returned. Also: why is he so paranoid about my vote on him?
On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

/snip


@ Cheese

At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ?
You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ?
You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ?

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch.

This post contradicts the previous. He explicitly TOLD me to weigh in on the debate and cast my vote for one of the others. Why the heck is he calling me out for it? Is this not what he asked for from me?

On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:

As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.


And here Djo is trying to further his case about my vote of Da0ud. There is a portion after the lynch where I try to explain to him that my biggest scumread was still on him. That pursuing his case at the time would have produced nothing; that I voted for Da0ud because he looked scummier than Inig; Check either of our filters about it. (page 38ish of the thread).

He seems sour that I have a scumread / FoS on him and a vote most of the day. This entire ploy to discredit me is baseless, and likely an attempt to thwart my future attempts at scum hunting him.

I'm not trying to discredit you. I'm scumhunting.
General Thread Clutter (my opinion)
+ Show Spoiler +
Admittedly some of it is defense, his filter is huge and he's talking on absolutely every page. The thread doesn't need to know every thought that pops in your head. A large majority is just casual conversation without his own input on certain subjects. Is this an attempt to bury logical arguements? He's trying to post a lot to seem like he's contributing, but I find most of his questions/concerns pointless. Take the "scumtell on Kush" post. I don't think anyone in the thread thought it was a scumtell, but he made a fuss over it.

I admit that I clutter the thread. Just trying to be active and to generate discussion in lurker-land...
A Final Note
+ Show Spoiler +
Look at who Djodref has suspicions (FoS's) on. Me and Sylverfyre. I oppose him, and Sylverfyre has tunneled him hard. His best scum reads are on people that find him highly suspicious! What does this say? He's scared. He's scared and replying by digging up any dirt he can on us.


After synthesizing all of what you have posted Djo, the jig is up. You are SCUM


I'm going to start my day by addressing this case. First things first, even if your case is not bad, the conclusion is wrong. I'm town so I would like you to be as objective as possible when you read my answers.
Please find my defense in bold font in the spoiler.


I find your points difficult to address, mainly because it's a case of opinion versus opinion. I think it was a scumslip, you say it's not. You say asking scum if they are mafia produces pressure, I don't think so. I still think that Debears thing was an appeal to emotion; but I suppose I can see where you're coming from on that point.

I really want other people to take a look at this case and speak their minds.

My big issue comes with the section "Djo's attempt to discredit me". You play it off as scumhunting. Perhaps. But I implore everyone: Look at the first and second posts in that section

First post: "Get your vote off me, and weigh in on Da0ud or Inig!"
Second post: "Why did you switch your vote? Suspicious."

First post: "What the hell are you doing with your vote still on me?
Second post: "Wow, I'm surprised you didn't push your case on me."

Everyone, look at those two posts and tell me it isn't the scummiest / most hypocritical thing you've ever seen.

Also, you fail to address my "final note" in which your only FoS's are on people who find you suspicious / were tunneling you. One person, of whom, is now dead.

I'm still pinning you as scum.

Dandel, at this point, is looking likely.

I'm also looking into some of Inig's posts: I'm finding that he's very "blendy" in this entire thread.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 15:51 GMT
#948
Before I get into Inig's filter, I want to take the opportunity to mention that I might lose power due to the incoming storm. If this happens, I'll obviously not be able to post for a period of time. Last hurricane we had on the east coast (Irene) I lost power for a week. I think it might be a day or two this time.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 15:54 GMT
#949
@ Dandel

On October 28 2012 23:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@ Dandel

What's all this stuff about you being confused and unsure? Yeah, the thread is jampacked with goodies concerning multiple participants, but that's to be expected. Don't try to play the "confused" card. It's almost as bad as the "noobie-card"


I also want an answer to this question you so conveniently avoided. Why playing the confused card? I thought you were against the noobie card, which is basically the same?

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 16:39 GMT
#958
@Rad

Your claim is interesting, and plausible. My only concern is that you could be SK claiming Vigi. However, I think your reasoning for shooting Kush makes sense considering your "double-FoS" on him.

I'm interested on what you have to say concerning my case on Djo / on Djo in general. Nobody else has given their strong thoughts on the Djodref case with the exception of himself.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 16:45 GMT
#963
On October 29 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese

Regarding the part where I'm trying to discredit you. I just find it awkward that you are listening to you top scumread when he calls you to change your vote from him to choose between two other guys you haven't been looking into.
I agree that I don't look consistent on this myself.

Anyway, I understand that you have enough reasons to believe that I am scum. It's regrettable that you are wrong so I think that's the best for both of us is to not waste too much time on this.

I'm very curious to see who is going to be your next target. Please surprise me

Could I ask you what do you think of Nackht ?


In regards to the bold: I wasn't listening to you; I chose between Da0ud and Inig because it was the logical thing to do. I didn't see your post till after the lynch, and I found it extremely awkward about your contradiction at a later time.

You keep saying you're town, and I find it very difficult to believe. I'm sticking to my guns on this case, and I'm going to do my damnest to not let you slip away.

What do I think of Nackht? "Lol" That pretty much sums up the case I can put against him.

Dandel is leaning scummy but I'm interested to hear his defense. I'm concerned about Inig at this time because of Semi-lurking / Blending and I'm going to look into him further.

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 17:04 GMT
#968
When I made that post I was 95% sure you were scum, 5% SK. With the vig claim, I'm damn near 100% sure of you being scum.

"Maybe" = perhaps, having the slight possibility of being the SK
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 17:09 GMT
#973
Apologies for the discrepancy, I see how or implies 50-50. But my read on you has, and will remain, scum.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 17:23 GMT
#975
On October 29 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote:
Off to bed
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 17:43 GMT
#977
Here's my promised snippet on Inig

One thing I find odd about Inig. Some of his posts are complete walls; walls of speculation and theory that don't really contribute. Look at this post:

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 02:48 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?


@ Kush

It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.

You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment.


I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip.


@ Cheese

townie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla
scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla

But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll.


@Everyone

What are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one.


To me (and from what I have actually read) this seems to be the biggest scum-slip so far in the game (regardless of whether it is or isnt). I think this because we do not know anyone's alignments, especially day 1, and kush assumes the case that djo knows I am town, and by doing so indirectly himself as well. And I just got done typing a wifom kind of argument that I love making so much so I deleted it. Granted I find it a bigger slip simply because I know I am town. I have already said how I thought that kush obviously knows what he was doing, and saying something like this from this type of player does not feel like an oversight, and despite me claiming and them having town reads on me you still wouldnt know for certain. This combined with these other cases being brought against him I feel all hold at least a little weight and have me feeling utterly wary of kush, especially his arrogant 'yeah, funny/dumb cases' as his defense. I would like more defenses with less mocking/anger in them, but if that if your playstyle so be it.

-Also kush telling of debears talking in other threads and PMs and whatnot up-front seems to discredit debears and give kush credibility by being the 'good guy' and bringing info to the thread. It could be used in a case against debears, for example, but kush just puts it out there. I think the motive seems more about gaining more power and discrediting debears rather than really trying to inform the thread. I think town has very little to gain by knowing this knowledge because it can be taken out of context and any number of ways, and kiush should have just pmed host and be done with it.

Now, it could have been a 'what if' or a 'next-step' mindset. Granted some reasons why kush could have had the mindset to say he knows and says djo knows Im town: Ive claimed, kush had town reads on me, djo had changed to more town reads on me, so the setting assumed I was town. The problem I have with calling it a true scum-slip is that kush is in the best position to get lynched because of the mislynch on da0ud, making arguments easier and seemingly hold more power. Added to the fact that my own scum-read wants to off kush now has me mimicking djos feelings on kush (see above post). I need moooooore from kush to solve this, and before I would vote for him.

@Djo
The longer time goes on, you are slowly losing town credibility with me. Your contribution is high, and frankly this is becoming your game because your posting like a 1/3+ of the posts lol (and have a 10 page filter). For simply this reason I want you still alive because you are so active. Ive liked your recent contributions though, so I just want more solid content from you, rather than being so all over the place. Thats the other thing. Because you are so 'everywhere' but havent ever had really strong opinions on things (besides me for most of day1) it makes your 'unsure trying to be safe townie' look change to a 'careful mafia' look the longer time goes on. Ignore the pokes at you that lack real substance and give us more cases to discuss rather than your play. Your case against me was good, it got me to shape up and post better. And I like this discussion between cheese if it will get deeper.

@Mr cheese.
Kinda the same read I have with djo. The longer time goes on the more it seems like you are being super neutral/safe. Nothing you post has an edge to it, which while it is a quality I admire, it makes it difficult to really confirm anything with you, which leads to greater suspicions. The only real scum-hunting cases you have had are against da0ud and djo. I thought your arguments against da0ud were good because they were true, da0ud was acting scummy. So dont feel bad about it, keep going on the case with djo and see it you can get anything new. I would really like more so I can solidify my ideas about djo.


I honestly find it difficult to comprehend everything he's saying in the first three paragraphs. It's a lot of speculation and "I think's" that don't reveal anything. He's not being strong in his wording. (I.E He is doing this, this is what's happening).The wall of text sure looks like he's contributing... The two @'s on the bottom reveal that he's null/town on me and null/scummy on Djo. Nothing really strong of opinion.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote:
@Rad
As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself.
This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:13 kushm4sta wrote:

djo is scum btw guys


and then another post right after

Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 02:32 kushm4sta wrote:
Djo is
#1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will.
#2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again.

I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2.

And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT

On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:
Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now
So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed,
I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now.

@ Kush

I'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion.

@ everyone
I would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice.



So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted.
Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong.
spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all.


This seems more like a summary of recent events than any real input whatsoever. All he says is: "I'm wary of him [Kush], but I do not know enough".

It could just be bad town play, but these posts, in addition to a lack of scumhunting, don't seem like an actual contribution at all.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 18:32 GMT
#982
I misread both of the posts at first, not just the second one. He is very confusing in his reasons and wording much the same. As I said they were very wall-of-texty to me, almost to the point where I wanted to go TL;DR.

And me too, I really want him to come out of hiding and tell us his opinions on recent occurrences.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 18:50 GMT
#985
What djo case o.o
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 18:59 GMT
#987
@Debears
Why is my percentage post in a case about Djodref?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 19:03 GMT
#989
On October 29 2012 03:51 debears wrote:

Djo's approach on Dau0d

Despite Djo's suspicions on Inig and Sylver, he ends up voting Dau0d. Why? Lets see

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud

Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far...


Not the greatest reasoning. He does provide some reasoning right after though.

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 08:46 debears wrote:
Bad word choice on my part. Bad = weak in my post.

And the same points on inig and dauod.
1) semi lurker
2) town reads/ percent town reads
3) generally blending in

Give me


Allow me to ameliorate for you, sir.

1.) Inig was a semi lurker to begin with. As of late, he has been posting more and with greater content. Da0ud, on the other hand, has contributed much less and is still lurking.

2.) Let's look at both of their percentage town reads.
Inigs:
On October 26 2012 16:17 Inigmaticalism wrote:
I would label Djo as like 70% town. Hes been consistent and contributing. I think hes gone after me too long to be mafia. He has talked an awful lot though. Its probably more likely, with all his questions and style of scumhunting, thats hes a vigi or SK or something like that, seeing who he can get lynched (who he thinks is scum if hes vigi, etc), and then who he cant hes found his night targets. Just a thought.


Da0ud's:
On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.


Inig has more reason for considering Djo town, and puts it at 70% (leaning town). He says he's been consistent, obviously posting alot, and going after him of all people. He likes this, and even offers some counter-roles that he could be instead of mafia.

Da0ud on the other hand only says "hey, he's asking questions, must be 90% (almost definitely town)" I find Da0uds reasons for thinking Djo town less plausible than Inigs, and he almost considers him town.

3.) Inig has been more distinguished in asking questions / contributing. His theory on Dandel is intriguing and unique, and something I may want to follow up on in the future. His vote of imcasey and Dandel is anything BUT blending in.



Notice his reasoning. It's literally almost the same for Inig. Yet, he feels that Inig was "more distinguished in asking questions/contributing". I don't get it. Also, he didn't think Dau0d's meta was different than Dau0d's town game when he posted this earlier.


The second post is my post, not Djo's. Why is it in there? I'll gladly reiterate my reasoning behind my vote on Da0ud over Inig if you wish.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 19:15 GMT
#993
@Debears

You say that "The Common Fallacy" of this game is that activity = town. Are you considering at least one of the lurkers to be mafia at this point? (Considering Inig to be a lurker, in this case)

Also, on an unrelated note, am I the only one that finds it ironic that the replacement of the lurker is also a lurker? Lurkception.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 28 2012 19:37 GMT
#996
I somewhat agree with that theory, and it's easy to confirm simply because he is not a consistent poster. It could be IRL issues (did he mention any? I can't recall) or, perhaps, active lurking? Is there anything to suggest that? I'll look more into it later.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:07 GMT
#1027
Hey guys, I just got back and reading over the thread. Seems like a lot of people are considering a Dandel lynch. At this point, with no defense from him, I'm definitely considering switching my vote. I really want to see if Dandel can provide an adequate explanation. That said, Djodref is still my top scum read until I can get a chance to read Dandel's eventual rebuttal.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:28 GMT
#1033
@Inig

I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.

In regards to the SK thing... I don't see why lynching the SK is ever a bad thing. What's the issue? It is most definitely in towns wincon.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:32 GMT
#1036
On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job.


What are you even trying to say here?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:36 GMT
#1038
Oh I see a lylo situation... I get it. Scratch that then. I didn't realize we were in that situation.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:46 GMT
#1043
@ Rad

Where do you stand on the vote today? Do you find Djo the scummiest? Or Dandel, now that we see his defense?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 03:59 GMT
#1048
@Rad

I don't really like Alsn's premise on Dandel, even if I found the incessant flaming that ensued scummy. Tbh I think the case relies more on WIFOM than cold, hard facts. That's why I'm sticking to my Djo vote. My case against him, Debear's case against him (actually surprised he hasn't switch the vote) both compile a significant number of quotes that really paint the picture that Djo is scum. I find it much more likely that Dandel perchance flip town than Djo.

I also don't like the fact that Inig is the very definition of an active lurking: coming back to the thread and sheeping on the most popular case that suits his interests. He also has done zero scumhunting besides that initial nitpick at dandel d1.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 04:01 GMT
#1049
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 04:24 GMT
#1061
Holy meta argument Batbears. Are you saying that Dandel under pressure is basically = Kush in terms of meta?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 04:34 GMT
#1072
My goodness, can we lay off the lylo / SK lynching scenario? What purpose is going into detail about this serving? There is so much crowding of the thread with these hypothetical / speculative scenarios.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 04:49 GMT
#1081
On October 29 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 13:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And on the "where are my scumbuddies" thing. Djo was never in danger of a lynch d1. It was between Da0ud and Inig. Nobody had to defend him. The attention was off.


@ Cheese

Well, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched.
People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie.


I agree the pressure switch was late. But even still, your other two scumbuddies could have been either the lurkers, or planning to jump on you last minute to avoid suspicion. They didn't have to because of the Da0ud-Inig fiasco that presented itself.

This entire argument however, from both angles, is very speculative and fairly irrelevant.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 04:55 GMT
#1086
@Anyone
Inig makes this comment after I call him out on sheeping the Dandel case, and having posts that don't contribute.

On October 29 2012 12:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job.


What are you even trying to say here?

I'm not sure I understand what it means. Can anyone clarify a motivation behind this post?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 05:02 GMT
#1091
@Djo

I've been looking at Inig. I gave this post a while ago, and talked briefly with it about Alsn.
On October 29 2012 02:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Here's my promised snippet on Inig

One thing I find odd about Inig. Some of his posts are complete walls; walls of speculation and theory that don't really contribute. Look at this post:

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 02:48 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?


@ Kush

It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.

You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment.


I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip.


@ Cheese

townie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla
scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla

But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll.


@Everyone

What are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one.


To me (and from what I have actually read) this seems to be the biggest scum-slip so far in the game (regardless of whether it is or isnt). I think this because we do not know anyone's alignments, especially day 1, and kush assumes the case that djo knows I am town, and by doing so indirectly himself as well. And I just got done typing a wifom kind of argument that I love making so much so I deleted it. Granted I find it a bigger slip simply because I know I am town. I have already said how I thought that kush obviously knows what he was doing, and saying something like this from this type of player does not feel like an oversight, and despite me claiming and them having town reads on me you still wouldnt know for certain. This combined with these other cases being brought against him I feel all hold at least a little weight and have me feeling utterly wary of kush, especially his arrogant 'yeah, funny/dumb cases' as his defense. I would like more defenses with less mocking/anger in them, but if that if your playstyle so be it.

-Also kush telling of debears talking in other threads and PMs and whatnot up-front seems to discredit debears and give kush credibility by being the 'good guy' and bringing info to the thread. It could be used in a case against debears, for example, but kush just puts it out there. I think the motive seems more about gaining more power and discrediting debears rather than really trying to inform the thread. I think town has very little to gain by knowing this knowledge because it can be taken out of context and any number of ways, and kiush should have just pmed host and be done with it.

Now, it could have been a 'what if' or a 'next-step' mindset. Granted some reasons why kush could have had the mindset to say he knows and says djo knows Im town: Ive claimed, kush had town reads on me, djo had changed to more town reads on me, so the setting assumed I was town. The problem I have with calling it a true scum-slip is that kush is in the best position to get lynched because of the mislynch on da0ud, making arguments easier and seemingly hold more power. Added to the fact that my own scum-read wants to off kush now has me mimicking djos feelings on kush (see above post). I need moooooore from kush to solve this, and before I would vote for him.

@Djo
The longer time goes on, you are slowly losing town credibility with me. Your contribution is high, and frankly this is becoming your game because your posting like a 1/3+ of the posts lol (and have a 10 page filter). For simply this reason I want you still alive because you are so active. Ive liked your recent contributions though, so I just want more solid content from you, rather than being so all over the place. Thats the other thing. Because you are so 'everywhere' but havent ever had really strong opinions on things (besides me for most of day1) it makes your 'unsure trying to be safe townie' look change to a 'careful mafia' look the longer time goes on. Ignore the pokes at you that lack real substance and give us more cases to discuss rather than your play. Your case against me was good, it got me to shape up and post better. And I like this discussion between cheese if it will get deeper.

@Mr cheese.
Kinda the same read I have with djo. The longer time goes on the more it seems like you are being super neutral/safe. Nothing you post has an edge to it, which while it is a quality I admire, it makes it difficult to really confirm anything with you, which leads to greater suspicions. The only real scum-hunting cases you have had are against da0ud and djo. I thought your arguments against da0ud were good because they were true, da0ud was acting scummy. So dont feel bad about it, keep going on the case with djo and see it you can get anything new. I would really like more so I can solidify my ideas about djo.


I honestly find it difficult to comprehend everything he's saying in the first three paragraphs. It's a lot of speculation and "I think's" that don't reveal anything. He's not being strong in his wording. (I.E He is doing this, this is what's happening).The wall of text sure looks like he's contributing... The two @'s on the bottom reveal that he's null/town on me and null/scummy on Djo. Nothing really strong of opinion.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote:
@Rad
As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself.
This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:13 kushm4sta wrote:

djo is scum btw guys


and then another post right after

Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 02:32 kushm4sta wrote:
Djo is
#1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will.
#2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again.

I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2.

And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT

On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:
Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now
So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed,
I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now.

@ Kush

I'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion.

@ everyone
I would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice.



So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted.
Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong.
spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all.


This seems more like a summary of recent events than any real input whatsoever. All he says is: "I'm wary of him [Kush], but I do not know enough".

It could just be bad town play, but these posts, in addition to a lack of scumhunting, don't seem like an actual contribution at all.


Then I call him out for sheeping on the Dandel case.
On October 29 2012 12:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Inig

I find your vote on Dandel to be exceedingly odd. Your first post in D2, and you look at the thread and go "Hey, Alsn has a case on Dandel. I had suspicions of him before, better instantly agree with everything he says." You haven't said anything about Dandel since d1. It seems like you're actively lurking, and waiting for someone to bring up a case so you can sheep off of it. Admittedly, I find Dandel is to be scummy, but not as scummy as I find Djodref. Your post also conveniently avoids my concerns about the two posts being "walls of text" that don't contribute anything.


I want to hear him specifically address these points, and give a more valid reason to his vote other than "I agree with Alsn's points, this isn't town behavior." Specific examples / quotes that make him believe Dandel is scum, other than just the sudden flaming.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 05:04 GMT
#1093
EBWOP: Talked briefly about it with Alsn** in the thread.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 05:41 GMT
#1116
The only reason he wasn't modkilled was because he was due to be replaced. If he didn't vote on D1 then he shouldn't be around for d2.

And surprisingly Roco doesn't want to lynch Djo... Why not? Something smells super scummy about this entire situation. A lurker being scumbuddies with Djo just makes too much sense right now, especially with him returning the second he has the possibility of being lynched.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 05:51 GMT
#1124
@Rad

I guess you're right. Still, it's just, ugh. This game, man.

Okay, so I'm really stunned by the return of prodigal son. That said, I really need to get some sleep.

An Important Note

Hurricane Sandy is approaching my front door. I may or may not have power when I wake up. If not, I obviously will not be posting for a while. So, If this is my last post:

Godspeed gentlemen, lynch Djodref.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 29 2012 17:05 GMT
#1181
Okay, so the weather is getting pretty bad and I'll probably lose power soon. I'm going to make some of my final thoughts clear before that happens. This just may be my Last Will.

We need to lynch Djodref today!

He has two official cases against him by myself and Debears, and nearly everyone in the thread has a scumread on him. He is the scummiest looking person in this thread by far. The fact that Roco comes back inconspicuously and defends him by voting Dandel is also huge. So, Inig seems scummy, Dandel seems scummy-- But Djodref is the common factor. In most people's eyes in this thread, he has, at the very least, a good potential to be scum. And in my eyes, he has the highest potential.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 08:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
MY OPINION ON DJODREF
A compilation of quotes, and reasons why I believe he is guilty

By: Mr. Cheesecake

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Scumslip
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:09 da0ud wrote:
On October 25 2012 17:52 Djodref wrote:
I'm insisting on this because it was not my mentality at all at the beginning of NMMXVIII, you case see this in my quotes in debear previous posts. I want the "scared" newbies (like daoud) to boost their confidence and go scumhunt.


I am not scared anymore... And I will hunt you down this time if I have to


daoud

Good !

I'm not planning on defending you this game so I expect you to do your job as town

What's your take on the Rad-debears argument by the way?
Here is the infamous scumslip by Djo, he refers to Da0ud explicitly as town (who we now know IS town). There is little to say here: How does Djo know Da0ud is town? He doesn't even have a reason to think he's town. He even votes for Da0ud which I will address later.
Furthermore, Djo provides us with the weakest defense for a scumslip ever:
On October 25 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 18:30 da0ud wrote:
EBWOP : How would you already know I am town ?


I don't know already if you are town or not. I've spoken too fast because I was thinking of our last game where you were town. It was a slip, but not a scumslip

Regarding Roco, I understand your hunch but he reminds me your first weird posts last game. He is suspicious but he doesn't deserve red bold font yet imo ^^

All he says is "Not a scumslip, please move along" and plays it off like no big deal with a characteristic smiley and ^^. This explanation is nowhere near adequate enough to address the issue.


“Are you Mafia?" Question
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2012 17:57 Roco69 wrote:
@djodref

To keep it simple, "lurker policy on D1" seems to be a well known and basic strategy so I will do the exact opposite,=>so I will never be suspected.

@Roco

I have more questions for you. Why do you want to never be suspected ?
Are you mafia ?

I first picked up on this in my original FoS post. Why would you ask someone explicitly if they are mafia? What is even the PURPOSE of this? Is he attempting to arouse suspicion for Roco?

On October 26 2012 01:12 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:00 sylverfyre wrote:
And Djo, you claim "no i asked him two questions" when both questions are basically the same.

debears case against Rad is developing interestingly, but Rad has a point - why are you trying so hard to save the lurkers?


@sylver

I'm sorry but not wanting to look suspicious is totally natural from a townie, especially from a total newbie. Adding the second question was only to make him uncomfortable if he was mafia.

How on God's green Earth would asking someone if they are mafia make them uncomfortable? All a scum player would need to rebuke it is: No. There is zero town motivation for asking someone if they are mafia.


His Questions about Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
It is obvious from the very beginning that Djo is suspicious of Ini. He asks everyone about what they think of him.
Firstly: Why would Djo care what anyone else thinks? If his scum read were strong enough, he'd have the confidence (there's that word again...) to make a case without input from a third party.
Secondly: He sometimes asks these questions in context of something else, as if to brush off some accusation against him.
On October 25 2012 18:51 Djodref wrote:
@daoud

What do you think about Ini ?

On October 25 2012 23:21 Djodref wrote:
@debears

If you are around, I would like to know what do you think about Inig first posts.

On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:

I don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch.

By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ?
What do you think of Inig ?

He throws out two questions, one of them being about inig. What does Inig have anything to do with the discussion at hand? The only reason I can see for it is an attempt to derail the thread into something about Inig.

On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).

The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.

So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.

I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.


@Alsn

I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me
What do you think about Inig ?

He completely brushes off the FoS from Alsn and asks about Inig instead.
On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:

Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini.
AGAIN, brushing off the FoS from Alsn, in favor of pursing interests of Ini.

These questions are nothing more than attempts to deflect discussion, away from him or otherwise, onto something else.


An Appeal to Emotion
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:24 debears wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears

You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"

Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.

You are advocating chaos.

If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.

##FoS debears


Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it?

Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out

Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me???


I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game
I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time.

debears <3

This is an outright appeal to emotion. He's feeling bad about last game, sure. Why bring it up? It bears no significance to anything in the thread other than making us feel bad for him. He even gives Debears a <3... really?


180 on Inig
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud

Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far...
Please note that this is the entire vote post.
This is 100% completely contradictory to everything Djo has previously said / advocated about Inig. He had a case on Inig, he was always asking those questions about him. Inig was, apparently, his biggest scum read. Why the sudden 180 degree turn and vote for Da0ud? It makes no sense whatsoever, and his explanation for dropping the vote was "I'm really starting to doubt myself about Inig's case..." and his reason for voting Da0ud is: "his involvement hasn't been great." Hardly enough to justify a revote.


Djo's attempt to discredit me
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese

What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it !

Here he advocates that I choose a side on the Da0ud-Inig debate, which I eventually did once I returned. Also: why is he so paranoid about my vote on him?
On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

/snip


@ Cheese

At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ?
You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ?
You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ?

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch.

This post contradicts the previous. He explicitly TOLD me to weigh in on the debate and cast my vote for one of the others. Why the heck is he calling me out for it? Is this not what he asked for from me?

On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:

As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.


And here Djo is trying to further his case about my vote of Da0ud. There is a portion after the lynch where I try to explain to him that my biggest scumread was still on him. That pursuing his case at the time would have produced nothing; that I voted for Da0ud because he looked scummier than Inig; Check either of our filters about it. (page 38ish of the thread).

He seems sour that I have a scumread / FoS on him and a vote most of the day. This entire ploy to discredit me is baseless, and likely an attempt to thwart my future attempts at scum hunting him.


General Thread Clutter (my opinion)
+ Show Spoiler +
Admittedly some of it is defense, his filter is huge and he's talking on absolutely every page. The thread doesn't need to know every thought that pops in your head. A large majority is just casual conversation without his own input on certain subjects. Is this an attempt to bury logical arguements? He's trying to post a lot to seem like he's contributing, but I find most of his questions/concerns pointless. Take the "scumtell on Kush" post. I don't think anyone in the thread thought it was a scumtell, but he made a fuss over it.


A Final Note
+ Show Spoiler +
Look at who Djodref has suspicions (FoS's) on. Me and Sylverfyre. I oppose him, and Sylverfyre has tunneled him hard. His best scum reads are on people that find him highly suspicious! What does this say? He's scared. He's scared and replying by digging up any dirt he can on us.


After synthesizing all of what you have posted Djo, the jig is up. You are SCUM



+ Show Spoiler +
On October 29 2012 03:51 debears wrote:
wow lol posted it in the last newbie. Thrawn we did the same thing :/ fuck me lol

A Second case on Djo

Since my first case, Djo hasn't done much to help my read on him. In fact, after rereading his filter again, I'd say my scumread on him is even stronger.

Points in the original case/cases

1) Stated and Acted as though he had a town read on me day 1, then denies it when pressured by Rad
2) His two scumslips (slips as he calls them) - Dau0d town comment and the slip when talking about Alsn's fOS
3) Wanting me to "Take care of Rad" day 1

The Day 1 lynch

First, I want to point out his indecisiveness and apparent apathy to who he wanted lynched.

Djo's first actual pursuit was Inig. He was pressing on Inig pretty well. However, when asked who he would want to lynch, he says Sylver (with his vote on Inig)

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 00:42 kushm4sta wrote:
More on daoud:
He seems much more careful about what he says this game than last game.
Last games his posts were like WTF is this weird guy talking about.
This game they look like he doesn't want to catch anyone's attention.

Why we shouldn't lynch djodref today:
He does look pretty scummy. But I don't see how anyone can have a lot of certainty in that read.
Combination of high activity and low certainty means he should not lynch him.
Also realize that djodref is in a position where he NEEDS to evolve his meta whether he is town or scum.
His first game he played as a noob, understandable because it was his first game. His second game, he pretended to be a noob as a scum strat. I think showing that he is better than the newb he pretended to be last game would be the natural play for town djodref, and also scum djodref trying to appear as town djodref.

Djo: who out of the active players seems scummiest to you? Also why did you bring up how you want to lynch a lurker without even trying to pressure your scumreads?


@Kush

Debears and Rad are looking quite ok. I'm leaning town for both of them. I'm waiting for Cheese to post what he has to say about me because I'm still null on him.

I didn't like some posts from sylver but he had some nice reactions during our latest fight.
I need some time to look at dandel. I didn't like the way he voted Inig, but he said he was not sure even.

I would say sylver right now...

But I've been spending too much time defending myself. I need to calm down and re-read some filters for a while.


A couple of posts later, he unvotes and states why he doesn't want to lynch Inig suddenly.

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote:
Regarding an Inig's lynch, I'm not comfortable with it...

In my opinion, he had a positive response after my case against him. I doubt that he could be a scum after that. His role claim was looking really sincere. If he can improve his presence in the thread and his scumhunting, I don't want to lynch him. I'm going to unvote him.
I would cast my vote on Roco or imcasey if they magically reappear. I'll wake up early tomorrow to see if the bandwagon is still against me or not.

If you are town, do not sheep and cast your vote against me. Read my filter and make your own opinion by yourself.
You are going to feel some heat if you cast your vote too lightly because I'm going to flip green.

I'm sorry but I need some sleep guys

## Unvote




That's quite the turnaround after the pressure and vote

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Djodref wrote:
@debears

No, I'm not comfortable with any of the lynches to be honest. I'm looking at their filter over and over again and try to find some little clues...
Regarding Inig, I should vote him if I was only a rational machine (no scumhunting at the beginning, wishy washy on Cheese, voting imcasey unexpectedly, the slip you have found, etc...) but I feel him as sincere in his posts.a

Not sure why he claimed though.

Regarding daoud, I have no reasons to vote for him at the exception of his hasty vote.


His only reason for not voting Inig was that Inig seemed "sincere". In fact, he said that it would be rational to lynch Inig based on his posting. That one post is a huge contradiction. Notice how during his time, he puts suspicion on Sylver.

Also, notice the timing of the unvote. He unvoted when there were other people agreeing with his case. That's really weird combined with the "he's sincere" reasoning on Inig.

Djo's approach on Dau0d

Despite Djo's suspicions on Inig and Sylver, he ends up voting Dau0d. Why? Lets see

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote:
## Vote daoud

Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far...


Not the greatest reasoning. He does provide some reasoning right after though.

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 08:46 debears wrote:
Bad word choice on my part. Bad = weak in my post.

And the same points on inig and dauod.
1) semi lurker
2) town reads/ percent town reads
3) generally blending in

Give me


Allow me to ameliorate for you, sir.

1.) Inig was a semi lurker to begin with. As of late, he has been posting more and with greater content. Da0ud, on the other hand, has contributed much less and is still lurking.

2.) Let's look at both of their percentage town reads.
Inigs:
On October 26 2012 16:17 Inigmaticalism wrote:
I would label Djo as like 70% town. Hes been consistent and contributing. I think hes gone after me too long to be mafia. He has talked an awful lot though. Its probably more likely, with all his questions and style of scumhunting, thats hes a vigi or SK or something like that, seeing who he can get lynched (who he thinks is scum if hes vigi, etc), and then who he cant hes found his night targets. Just a thought.


Da0ud's:
On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.


Inig has more reason for considering Djo town, and puts it at 70% (leaning town). He says he's been consistent, obviously posting alot, and going after him of all people. He likes this, and even offers some counter-roles that he could be instead of mafia.

Da0ud on the other hand only says "hey, he's asking questions, must be 90% (almost definitely town)" I find Da0uds reasons for thinking Djo town less plausible than Inigs, and he almost considers him town.

3.) Inig has been more distinguished in asking questions / contributing. His theory on Dandel is intriguing and unique, and something I may want to follow up on in the future. His vote of imcasey and Dandel is anything BUT blending in.



Notice his reasoning. It's literally almost the same for Inig. Yet, he feels that Inig was "more distinguished in asking questions/contributing". I don't get it. Also, he didn't think Dau0d's meta was different than Dau0d's town game when he posted this earlier.

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 00:53 Djodref wrote:
Regarding daoud, I don't want to lynch him because he has reacted quite fast and naturally to my slip.
Him posting some nonsense about the possibility of a SK just after totally fits his meta.


He needs to post a lot more though...


He flip-flopped onto Dau0d after kush's case while spreading suspicion onto 2 other plays (slyverfyre and Inig). His reasoning for moving his suspicion around was poor at the best. To me, it seems like he didn't care who got lynched

Hammering CheeseCake for the Switched Vote

This was posted after the lynch

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

/snip


@ Cheese

At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ?
You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ?
You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ?

I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch.


Isn't this similar to what Djo did? Yet Djo is calling him out for it? Djo had no considerations of Dau0d until the kush case was posted.

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote:
"That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched."

@ Cheese

Here is a quote from you.

On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
/snip
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.

##Vote: Djodref


As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book.
Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell.
Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ?
No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch.

And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ?

FoS Cheese




Yet again, a FOS for hypocritical reasoning. Not only did Djo drop his top scumread for poor reasoning, he voted for Dau0d for poor reasoning. And now he's spreading suspicion on CheeseCake.

This post, however, is the kicker

Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote:
@ Cheese

What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ?
Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it
!


Djo told him to change his vote in the first place!!!!!!!!!!
Then, he tries to accuse Cheese of scum since Cheese did it???? Wow.

Meta

Djo has little meta to go on with only 2 games. However, there are differences from his town game and scum game. These differences, related to this game, are not damning by any means, but do support that Djo could be scum.

1) Djo is capable of being active as scum. His filter was roughly 9 pgs as scum in Looney

2)His case format this game compared to his other games

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372945&currentpage=58#1147 - Game as scum
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466&currentpage=23#441 - this game

Look at the shocking similarities. Now, this could be how he likes to post now, since this is only his 3rd game.

However, in looking at his first newbie as cop, no posts have the same format (Correct me if I'm wrong on this Djo)

3) Personality - Djo's personality this game is similar to his other games as cop and mafia. Take out the newbie card play, and he sounds the same in all 3. Thus, his personality is a null tell, but it mean that he can be mafia

A Common Fallacy

I think this game has fallen into the trap of activity = town. That is not always the case. Take a long hard look at Djo's filter and this case. His filter is huge and it was a bitch to go through. Mafia can hide in a big filter.

Djo is my number 2 scum read besides Dandel right now. I still need to see if Dandel even comes back (and defends himself properly + has something to contribute) before I would think of voting Djo.

Let me know if you need clarification on anything. Reading Djo's filter + writing out the case = sucks



These are two main cases against him.

Djodref looks waaaay scummier than Dandel at this point. Why? Cold, hard facts. There has been thorough investigation of Djodref, and the only real case against Dandel has been based on some WIFOM, the fact that he hasn't really contributed and "wanted to lynch an SK" which I still don't fully understand.

Djodref is SCUM, and every person here can see it in at least some way or another.

Everyone kept saying on Day 1 that "If he's scum, then he'll show it eventually." Well, guess what, he has. He's even trying to get out of his lynch by pressuring the favorable scumread (Dandel), and giving completely hypocritical reasons as why we should lynch him (I.E. didn't pressure top scumread [Ini]at the end of d1 ----> Djo didn't EITHER!) The mountain of evidence against Djodref is colossal in comparison to Dandel or Inig. He must be lynched TODAY!

To the folks in this thread -- We are keeping Djodref around too long, and affording him the chance to clutter up the thread with nonsense. Ask yourselves: Do we really want him to slip through our fingers again? He has shown himself time and time again to be scum. Gentlemen, I'm counting on you to make the correct decision in this matter.

I don't have much time before this hurricane veritably destroys my internet connection. In the midst of this, I bid you adieu.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 14:56 GMT
#1405
Guys, I'm back! Sandy was a bitch, but I've got power back and am cleaning up the mess (tree across my backyard, etc...).

I see Djo was lynched -- and town?? Wow. What is happening with this game...

Other concerns: It seems there was a lot of movement towards me at the last second and I'm not sure exactly why. I see Nack had some concerns about me, and it seems like a lot of people (the lurkers) sheeped onto it for the swing vote. The motivations behind this from them really deserve an explanation. Roco/Inig have obviously been reading the thread, but not contributing at all. Inig contributes here and there when he sees fit. This behavior, and especially the last minute votes, are indicative of active lurking--one of the scummiest traits available. (Although, I have no clue WHY they would choose to vote like this...)

I'm especially suspicious of Inig at this point since I've accused him of active lurking prior to this, and he refuses to defend himself. Maybe he was sour, voted for me because I was calling him out, and wanted me dead. As for Roco, I really don't know what to make of him. He's the lurkiest person I've ever seen and has been slipping under the radar because we thought he was going to be replaced / mk'd.

For now, until I can get some clarity to the reasons behind Inig's motives,

##FoS: Inig
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 14:57 GMT
#1406
EBWOP: If anyone has any questions for me, ask them now. Catching up on the specifics earlier in the thread.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 15:10 GMT
#1413
On October 31 2012 00:03 debears wrote:
@Rad

Part of the dilemma we have right now is Inig and Roco right now

They are
1) Purposely playing the worst games as town I've ever seen (not playing to win)
2) Scum playing to win


1 is entirely possible since this is a newbie game. If they are town, maybe they should have /obs'd this one.
2 might be true, but if so Roco has the worst scum tactic ever because everyone knows lurking heavily is a scum trait. Inig at least posts some content / sheeps to blend in or seem logical.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 15:13 GMT
#1420
On October 31 2012 00:11 Rad wrote:
I agree that we can't base anything just on djo's one statement. What I was getting at was there are other ways to try to get a read on inig and roco. We have a bunch of dead townies now. What did they think about inig and roco before they were killed?


This is an interesting notion. I'll look through the deceased's filters to see what I can find about them. On a general note, I know roco day1 wasn't well-received.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 15:56 GMT
#1436
Here is what the dead town thinks about Roco and Inig.

Kush's thoughts about Inig:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 27 2012 04:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Inig's posts have improved. Recently he has been sharing his thoughts like crazy.

The cases against him: I think these are examples of mistakes that newbie townie could easily make.

He is a null/town read atm. I don't want to lynch him. Consider this a soft defense.


On October 27 2012 08:50 kushm4sta wrote:
So to summarize the case against inig:
1 Lack of strong scumreads (especially early)
2 Multitude of half assed, inconclusive suspicions
3 Reliance on town reads
I can see a first timer easily doing any of these things.


Summary: He thinks Inig is newbie town. Null tell.

Da0ud's thoughts on Roco:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 18:29 da0ud wrote:
@debears

I do like your attitude in putting a case up against Rad at the moment and I mostly agree on the content and arguments behind.
However, I do believe you are getting a bit to enthusiastic at the moment. Try to remain a little bit open-minded at the beginning of the game. You don't want to put all your focus on Rad and forget about the others.
I would encourage other people to participate more in order to have a clearer picture on who wants what, and how they plan to scum-hunt.

Anyway, your attitude gives me a townie-read on you, deabers.
Neutral on Rad and Djo.
I, however have a scum first hunch on Roco and his weird post, where he seem to encourage people not to post: less posts => less information => good for mafia.


Da0ud's thoughts about Inig:
On October 26 2012 22:41 da0ud wrote:
Ebwop : sorry phone posting. Ill finsih the post :

Deb and rad have been so active and poking at each otjers that they actually look very townie to me. Pushing ideas, bringing content, putting pressure.

Talking about smileyDjo he has put a lot of pressure on people. Asking open questions etc. For having played a game with him where he played to nice lovable newbie card, I believe he is trying to step up and actually be a leader for town. I put him 90% town.

I totally hate the lurkers who actually do not post anything and hide to avoid potential suspicions. Id rather lynch lurking townie first day who doesn't help get info and push others to scumslip.

If scum are among active player we will have time to hunt them down. They will contradict themselves.

And we have semi lurkers like roco or blending ini. Which are pretty much as bad for town.

I would like to put my vote on Ini at the moment cause roco seems like a total newbie trying to stand out.

##Vote Ini


Summary: Has ill-feelings about both early game. Thinks Roco is scum because of his first two posts, votes Inig because of semi-lurking / blending in.

Clarity's thoughts on Inig:

On October 26 2012 01:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Inig is odd so far. His posts are all blank statements that don't further discussion. This is generally a scum trait but can be found in newer players as well. Saying things like Rad and debears should "watch out for eachother" because they come from different angles or pointing out that someone asked a good question.


Summary: Inig posts "blank statements that don't further discussion". Could be scum / newbie town.

Sylverfyre on lynching Inig / Roco
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2012 22:15 sylverfyre wrote:
Let me also be clear: Opposing a policy and opposing the specific instance of a policy being enacted are two entirely different things. Just because I'm not opposed to Lynch a Lurker doesn't mean I think we should invoke it automatically. But if we were closer to lynch time, and Ini and Roco still only had the posts they have... I'd vote for one of them. By not responding adequately to accusations made against you, you give the town very little to work with.


On October 26 2012 02:43 sylverfyre wrote:
Really wanna see some of the quiet ones post more (Thanks Clarity, for speaking up! Figured it was just a matter of 'haven't been on yet' in the case of 0posters.) especially Ini and Roco, who posted a little (Ini dodged my question, which I don't fault him for because the question was kindof a shitty one anyway - but not a lot of meaty content and in Roco's case, some rather confusing/questioanble tactics which I already stated I consider anti-town.

If/when 24 hours pass since Roco's last comment and he hasn't put any meat into his stance, I'm going to vote him.


Summary: Thinks Inig/Roco aren't explaining well / being quiet posters, would lynch one of them. (later votes Roco)


These posts really don't say anything more than we don't already know concerning Inig and Roco: Inig or Roco could be elusive scum or newbie town.

What they do reveal, however, is that the rest of the town see's how inactive they both are being, and realize their potential for being scum. I don't believe anyone has a good thing to say about either of them. It's also interesting that Roco and Inig are referred to in the same context as we are discussing right now. They are being lumped together as one person, sort of, being lurky and blending in.

So, the dead town pretty much agrees with us on Inig / Roco earlier in the game. They see them as scummy / lurky. Kush is the really only one who takes a firm stance on Inig being newbie town. Thoughts?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 17:18 GMT
#1442
@Alsn

I address this in bold.

On October 31 2012 01:49 Alsn wrote:
Ok, working yet again under the theory that Cheese and Dandel are of different alignments, I'm seriously starting consider if Cheese might be the third scum.

First of all, I find Cheese' explanation for why he thought Djod was scum and not SK highly suspect. Mostly because he made the clarification for why he thought so after Rad claimed vigi. At the time, I was considering a slight possibility for Djo to be SK. After the NK, there was either an SK or Vig. I was sure he was scum, and if not scum then surely SK. (SK would have been the case for his lone wolf behavior). Once Rad claimed Vig, I had Djo pinned as scum.

Secondly, he kept Dandel open as a lynch target as soon as I made my case but he had given no indication whatsoever earlier in the thread that he really thought Dandel was scummy. The one time he actually gives his opinion on Dandel is a post giving Dandel advice that he shouldn't "act" confused. If anything, that's the very definition of scum behaviour, offering friendly advice to players they know to be town. Link here. The only thing I found suspect concerning Dandel was the fact that he was acting confused. Someone going around being like "Damn, I'm confused, Idk who's scum!" is almost as bad as playing the newbie card. In other words, telling people that you have no idea about anything isn't contributing anything. I wasn't offering him advice; I was calling him out for it. The reason I kept Dandel open as a lynch target was mainly due to his flaming. I didn't really like your case to much, but I found Dandel's reaction under pressure odd. Afterwards, he explained himself, and I wanted to continue with my Djo case because it was based on more solid facts.

Then after several posts of actually agreeing that Dandel looks scummy, he goes around and says here that - and I'm paraphrasing - "no wait, actually, I never thought Dandel was all that scummy, only his response to your case!" as well as saying my case sucked because the premise was bad. Yet the only thing my premise even suggested was that I thought Djod acting like a lone scum seemed weird and I looked at other possibilities because of it. Dandel tunnelling kush while in hindsight he probably only meant to do because kush is kush, at the time it was most certainly not a bad argument(and still isn't, but Dandel's other actions look much better for him at this point). Again, the reason I found Dandel scummy was because of his behavior in reaction to your post, not because of your case itself. This is the same reason I found Inig to be suspicious Day 1--the part where he was getting all emotional and calling arguments stupid. I was considering switching my vote because flamming, and subsequently not explaining yourself, just screams "I'm scum, I slipped and can't defend myself".

Interestingly, the point that this happened at is after several posters had criticised me for WIFOMing about Djod(debears among others) so now Cheese must be feeling that he can't keep the option of lynching Dandel instead of Djod open any longer and tries to shut any non-Djod lynch down. I reckon he probably expected Djod to continue acting scummy but unless he conspired with both Roco and Inig I don't think he could have predicted the day to end like it did. Who could have predicted this end to d2?

The only thing I'm really questioning at this point is how exactly the pre-lynch chaos fits into all of this if both Roco and Inig are scum. Because then I don't see how Cheese could possibly be scum as unless it's an extremely ballsy bluff it just doesn't fit. I don't think scum were in any position to have to gamble on bluffing at all, getting Djod lynched seems like a pretty good result for scum to me.

Basically, right now unless I find someone else that I consider more scummy, I need to decide whether or not I want to take the risk of lynching Inig or Roco(still leaning Roco in that case by the way) or to go with an actual case, because I just don't think a rock solid case can be made against either of them. I sincerely hope that they actually try and participate from this point because otherwise I still don't see how I have any other choice than to lynch one of them.


@ Nack

I was responding to Rad's question: "What did the dead think about Roco/Inig?" To be honest, they thought the same things we are thinking now, which isn't much help. And I've been suspecting Inig since the other day. How do you know Debears is town?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 17:47 GMT
#1444
On October 31 2012 02:42 Alsn wrote:
Your first retort doesn't make sense. I just don't understand how you can be sure someone is scum, yet if not then he must be a serial killer? The way scum and serial killer plays should be vastly different. If anything, suspecting someone as being scum should eliminate suspicions that he's a serial killer simply because their objectives and likely behaviours are vastly different.


Are their behaviors really that different? Both would want to come off as town, just like everyone does. I've always figured that scum and SK would want to play in a similar way. The only difference is that the SK doesn't have the same information that scum has in terms of who's town.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 17:54 GMT
#1447
Sandy.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 19:04 GMT
#1453
On October 30 2012 08:26 nackhtjogger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2012 08:15 Dandel Ion wrote:
Ugh, I'm not sure if I like Cheese's chances of flipping scum better than yours...
I'm looking through filter/cases on him.

But I dunno, man. I've had a scummy feel on you from pretty early on...

Well, I'll take another look, but so far Cheese has been nothing but a null read for me. I'm not positive I want to take what I consider to be a pretty big gamble...


I suggest you rethink what you know about blending in because Cheesecake has neurotically tried it. He's the definition of trying to blend in.

Also he publishes his case on Djo right after Djo says he's leaving. Then I post about him and he disappears. I'm not saying he's lying about his RL issues.. but if so he's choosing his availability very conveniently.


@ Nack

How, exactly, am I the definition of blending in?

Also, you come in this game late and pull my case out of thin air. Sheeping onto the djo/dandel vote would have made you suspicious, so you try to come up with something original. Your one post about me where you quote my Da0ud vote is based on nothing but "A scum would want you to believe this! He's trying to blend in!"

You then proceed to choke us with your so-called "experience", seemingly saying that you've played this game a lot before and your words are absolutely true. Why should we believe you?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 19:10 GMT
#1454
EBWOP: Also, so there's only 2 scum to worry about? You're trying to sell a 2 scum team, like we are obviously and most definitely scum and anything else is ludicrous.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 19:16 GMT
#1460
On October 31 2012 04:12 nackhtjogger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 03:58 Rad wrote:
@nackht aren't there 3 scum right now? Or am I confused O.o

If there are 3 scums, there is nothing to discuss. It's game over.


It's been well-established that there are 3 scum in this game. The game starts with 3 and none have been killed yet. Math. So by your standard, since there are 3 scum, we shouldn't be discussing anything?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 30 2012 19:32 GMT
#1472
On October 30 2012 02:17 nackhtjogger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch.

My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. I think mafia have difficulties understanding how they are picked up by town, they sometimes don't realize that their input is of lesser quality in certain situations, like Cheese doesn't realize that you guys know the status of the game more than he should.. because he was busy with RL reasons.. so a summary of the status by him is in no way needed or appreciated .. but because he's scum he doesn't want to contribute, which is why he doesn't with this summary. I like how you pick on my "summary". It was a sentence long--I didn't contribute with ONE sentence? It was verifying that I was aware of the situation, and I had to choose. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. Because, as I said, the way he's received by town is an issue he makes an assumption about towns feedback which in this case is a towns intolerance for the fact that his vote does nothing. Obviously that's not what he wants because he's town too right? No, he's scum.My vote was doing nothing. Plain and simple. If you can give me an explanation as to why it would have been better to sit there with my thumb up Djo's keister instead of weighing in on the debate, I'd like to hear it. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. Now the assumption about towns feedback is that people are going to question his consistency... so he's like it's ok guys i got this, I'm not letting him off the hook. Of course I wouldn't let him off the hook, and I didn't because I found him scummy as hell. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig.

On Inig:

Honestly, I have no idea why people suddenly started piling on top of him. I found him -slightly- suspicious after his emotional outburst and semi-lurking. However, since then he has been asking questions (to myself included) and improving his post count. The cases against him are weak, imo. I've read through them I don't see much of a reason to lynch him. I've underlined what I think is important here.. the fact that he doesn't want town to think that he hasn't read the stuff he's talking about, what's important is that people realize he's done his research, lol Why should I paraphrase/requote the entire Inig case? Everyone knows what it said, and I pointed some of it out earlier in the thread. His vote on Imcasey I don't view as scum-intentioned; it was an attempt to draw out the lurker. I don't think scum would be that bold, because a vote like that would (and surely did) draw attention. WIFOM Like most of your argument here. That is not at all blending in.

His recent vote on Dandel, however, doesn't make sense from any role viewpoint I think, so I don't know what to think about that. I'll be reading more into his posts about Dandel later.

On Da0ud:


I skimmed through the cases concerning him, and by my own standards think he is more scummy-looking than Inig.

In particular, this post about the modkill.

On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote:
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content.


We all saw the modkill. This isn't contributing anything. Why talk about it? A townie died, there's nothing we can do about it, especially since he basically suicided. This is a useless topic. Town wouldn't complain about something like this in 5 sentences.. He does it because he's not sure how he is supposed to react to this behavior by da0ud but he assumes that it bothers town so he tries to blend in by saying .. hey it bothers me too, see .. I'm town too. I reacted to Da0ud's statement in the following way: He was MK'd, nothing we can do about it, it's not significant. I didn't understand why he'd attempt to bring a lot of attention to it.

Then, there is the entire percentage-based town read on Djo. I believe Kush mentioned this. 90% town on the first day? I most surely don't see it that way, and a 90% town read based on little concrete evidence? I don't get it.
OK, I'm pretty sure about this one. Djo, is like the most enigmatic thing that I've ever seen in my mafiaplaying career which involves around 10 games. I don't have a clue if he's scum and neither do you guys if you are honest. But Cheese doesn't know that he shouldn't know, he doesn't realize how strange the Djo phenomenon is for us. I mean you guys pushed him .. had him at the brink, what seemed like forever .. time and time again the same pressure but he somehow dodged it matrix style and cool every time. So never would any of you or I get into a fight with someone about their opinion on Djo. To Cheese however this looked like a dog-pile from town on a townie and he thinks that if he could just push a little more that it would go through, and then someone comes along and says Djo is 90% town to them and decides this is the opportunity to pick on it. But in doing so he just signaled me the rift between town and scum and that he must be on the other side of it. Who cares about your mafia experience? It's irrelevant. I also have no idea what you're trying to say.

In addition, he's a semi-lurker / blending in.

There is also an entire meta-arguement against him as well. I cannot address this as I know nothing of his previous game meta.

This being said, I find Da0ud to be much more scummier than Inig.

##Vote: Da0ud

I apologize for not being here sooner and for this post being somewhat rushed; I had a personal matter to attend to that required my immediate assistance.



I address your bolded "case" in underline.

Most of your argument is "Scum want you to believe he's doing this"
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 00:04 GMT
#1504
Anticipates Popcorn
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 00:15 GMT
#1511
@Dandel

What's the purpose in asking him if he's been roleblocked?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:01 GMT
#1516
@Alsn

You sure do change opinions a lot. You thought Dandel was scum, then thought he was town after RB claim, now after Rad does in fact flip vig you consider him scum again? I understand the setup considerations you mention, but your opinion seems to be swaying from one extreme to the other very quickly. What's your opinion on a Roco / Inig lynch?

Also, at this point, a ton of lynches are looking like coin flips to me. The only one I don't see having much a chance to flip red is Debears. Roco/Nack/Inig are looking 50/50 to me. Maybe Roco a bit more if he's a scum that just refused to post so he couldn't get called out and skates by on just a vote post. (Why wasn't he NK'd... GAH)
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:18 GMT
#1525
@Debears

Maybe the Rad flip really did catch him off guard? I agree that his opinion switching is a tad odd, but maybe the flip just hit the switch for him and suddenly everything was clear?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:27 GMT
#1530
That's the whole problem with the setup thing then. Everything is based on assumptions. It's why I had such trouble getting on the Dandel wagon at first--because people were assuming things.

Now that we know rad killed Kush n1... I'm trying to think -- what was the scum motivation for killing Sylver? It might be completely off-base but I'm willing to look into anything that isn't speculation or a lurker right now.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:27 GMT
#1531
I'm here, somewhat.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:36 GMT
#1533
Heh, I really didn't get a blue vibe from him. I guess, perhaps it was just a random shot. Dandel's claim... it's not air-tight but it's completely plausible. Lynching him on the premise of setup is about on par with lynching a lurker right now. The part where he claims to have RB'd Inig but was RB'd himself is also entirely plausible... but we can't know for sure.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:44 GMT
#1536
As in later tonight or tomorrow?

I'm pretty sure it is mylo atm.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
October 31 2012 01:48 GMT
#1538
Alright I still have a paper to write since classes were cancelled past couple of days and I've been procrastinating. See you guys tomorrow.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 00:18 GMT
#1609
@Debears

Day 1 I had said that "something grave had come up" and that I'd be gone. This occurrence was my dad blacking out in the bathroom and hitting his head on the sink--so I took him for medical care. Luckily no major injury. As for today, I spent the entirety of last night writing two papers, I caught ~1 1/2 hours of shut-eye, went to class, got home and fell asleep from around 3p.m-7:00ish (~1:15 mins ago). Trick-or-treaters woke me up. gg sleep schedule.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them now. I have some thoughts I'll share in a moment once I make some dinner (breakfast?).
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 00:24 GMT
#1611
On November 01 2012 09:21 Alsn wrote:
Oh well, I guess I'll go sleep. I sincerely hope that Inig and Roco show up and that you've actually done some talking to them by the time I wake up.


I predict a little snippet by Inig, and I bet roco just plops down his vote with nothing else.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 00:52 GMT
#1617
On the lurkers...

Roco is nothing more than a glorified coin flip. Hasn't said anything the entire game and is skating by on vote posts. If this weren't lylo, I'm almost certain we'd be dog piling on top of him. Nothing he has done is indicative as even remotely pro-town.

As for Inig, I found his play to be scummy because of semi-lurking, posting little content, and sheeping the popular cases. He comes in the thread and gives us some excuse about emotional burdens and ragequitting. Suddenly, everyone doesn't seem to even consider the possibility of him flipping red. I'm not discounting how true his claim is -- but that would be one sad way to lose if he is scum playing the simultaneous noob town / emotional card.

Concerning Dandel...

Ugh, I don't know what to think. Claiming to have RB'd Inig... He, himself could lying, maybe Inig is lying. Maybe both are telling the truth. Seems like a 50-50 chance that he's scum, and I'm finding it difficult to get behind a Dandel lynch for the same reasons I couldn't d2: there is just too much riding on assumption / speculation.

On Nack

I said somewhere before that he's trying to "choke us with his experience". Trying to come in this thread and assert his authority by assuring us that he's really good at this game, knows who the scum are, and is most definitely town. His case against me is based purely on WIFOM and I'm not even sure where he's coming from on my "scumbuddy" Alsn. I invoke the words of the late Kush to assist me:

On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote:
Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 00:56 GMT
#1618
On November 01 2012 09:47 debears wrote:
@Alsn

I went through a game of the UberNinja/Nackht mafiascum games. I looked at this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23437&start=175

I find that he is likely UberNinja. His posting style (trolling, quoting and confusing) and timing (posting in clusters) ring true in the mafiascum game


Just glanced over that, "this vote is lolcakes" made me giggle. To come here and claim "I've got a trolly meta, no worries it's all good" is pretty rich, however.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 01:10 GMT
#1621
@Debears

While I appreciate the defense, I think people have made up their minds on me for the most part. I'm that guy that spearheaded the lynch on the venerable Djodref----Inig said himself that he wants to "continue the legacy of Djo" by voting me or following whatever the hell Nack wants to do.

Speaking of which, it seems like Nack has the lurkers (or at least Inig) around his little finger if I'm not mistaken. Inig even explicitly calls Nack town "bringing down the hammer of judgement on mafia". How is he so sure Nack is even town? I find it odd that both the lurkers come out of hiding to suddenly and unquestionably listen to this guy (by voting) and that Inig puts a firm townie stamp on his head. Doesn't make any sense to me.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 19:17 GMT
#1666
I'm really leaning towards an Inig lynch right now. I just got home from classes, I'll be posting about him shortly.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 19:48 GMT
#1670
Some stuff on Inig:
On October 26 2012 07:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 04:11 Dandel Ion wrote:
On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone.

What scumhunting exactly?
I didn't ever see you do something that would qualify as such.


Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:

To be devils advocate for a second, I imagine he means he's scouring the comments intently.
Whereas your definition of scumhunting is probably closer to "actively engage with people to make them mess up""

Thanks clarity.

Show nested quote +
Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way.
Pure WIFOM.
You said you wouldn't do it as scum, but if you are scum, you could do it, point at it, and say "I'd never do this as scum".

It's impossible to get a read on your original answer, but the INSTANT you try to argue with "I'd never do this as scum"-WIFOM shit, it gets me riled up.
Don't do that. It doesn't make you look good.

Oh ok. Guess Ill not try to make myself look like a townie in the thread. Might get mistaken as WIFOM.
So then what would be a wifom defense vs a non wifom defense? You can argue anything that way a long as you dont like it. I find just about every argument/case presented so far to be stupid and pointless.

To be straight up, this first day/night cycle Im not going to contribute that much. I thought I had much more time when I signed up and then RL got stupid busy out of nowhere. My time will free up much more starting around Sunday-Monday, and then Ill be able to give the amount of time Ive wanted to give. If you dont like it, tough, but I dont like it either and Im quite frustrated about it. Whine about it if you want, but it is what it is.


He gets extremely emotional, calling all of the accusations against him "stupid and pointless". The second he is being attacked, he feels the need to lash out emotionally.
On October 28 2012 08:51 Inigmaticalism wrote:
@Rad
I see your point, Im now interested to know as well. Based on what kush has already said though, I dont know how we are ever going to be able to confirm it. I will keep watching however.

@Mr CC
I love your post! I do not have time and am leaving immediately after I post this so I cant elaborate more until after day post, but your Djo's attempt to discredit me segment is profound.

*I may as well not post anymore cause Im always proven wrong within the same page :/


He never elaborates on my post. If he truly thought my arguements were profound, why does his first D2 post completely 180 from the idea and onto Dandel? He doesn't seem to really care about who's being lynched. Especially with his djo-dandel-myself flop in terms of thinking.

Here he gets angry again. I call him out for not contributing / active lurking in this post:

On October 29 2012 02:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Here's my promised snippet on Inig

One thing I find odd about Inig. Some of his posts are complete walls; walls of speculation and theory that don't really contribute. Look at this post:

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 02:48 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 01:02 Djodref wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 28 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On October 27 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:
On October 27 2012 21:52 kushm4sta wrote:
I know he's playing in the game and so am I... the game hasn't started yet though. He needed a fresh breath of pony mafia air because of the depressing shit that happened in this thread.

Djo I have not really put a lot of time into reading the thread and looking at filters, but my primary suspect just from preliminary observations is you.
I think your indecision at lynch time is a huge scumtell. It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches. If you were town, and you really thought that none of them were scum, you would have tried to push someone who you actually thought was scum. But you did nothing except ask sylver endless questions with really no point to them.


@ Kush

scumslip much ?


How is that a scumslip, Djo?


@ Kush

It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and wanted to gain town points by opposing both lynches.

You could have reproached to have known daoud's alignment. But it looks like that you know Ini's alignment.


I think I see what you mean now, but he's explaining what he believes is your thought process / motivation, not his own. I can't really claim that to be a scumslip.


@ Cheese

townie post: it seems like you knew that both of them would flip town and blabla
scumslip post: It seems like you know that both of them were going to be town and blabla

But I would agree that it is not a big scumtelll.


@Everyone

What are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one.


To me (and from what I have actually read) this seems to be the biggest scum-slip so far in the game (regardless of whether it is or isnt). I think this because we do not know anyone's alignments, especially day 1, and kush assumes the case that djo knows I am town, and by doing so indirectly himself as well. And I just got done typing a wifom kind of argument that I love making so much so I deleted it. Granted I find it a bigger slip simply because I know I am town. I have already said how I thought that kush obviously knows what he was doing, and saying something like this from this type of player does not feel like an oversight, and despite me claiming and them having town reads on me you still wouldnt know for certain. This combined with these other cases being brought against him I feel all hold at least a little weight and have me feeling utterly wary of kush, especially his arrogant 'yeah, funny/dumb cases' as his defense. I would like more defenses with less mocking/anger in them, but if that if your playstyle so be it.

-Also kush telling of debears talking in other threads and PMs and whatnot up-front seems to discredit debears and give kush credibility by being the 'good guy' and bringing info to the thread. It could be used in a case against debears, for example, but kush just puts it out there. I think the motive seems more about gaining more power and discrediting debears rather than really trying to inform the thread. I think town has very little to gain by knowing this knowledge because it can be taken out of context and any number of ways, and kiush should have just pmed host and be done with it.

Now, it could have been a 'what if' or a 'next-step' mindset. Granted some reasons why kush could have had the mindset to say he knows and says djo knows Im town: Ive claimed, kush had town reads on me, djo had changed to more town reads on me, so the setting assumed I was town. The problem I have with calling it a true scum-slip is that kush is in the best position to get lynched because of the mislynch on da0ud, making arguments easier and seemingly hold more power. Added to the fact that my own scum-read wants to off kush now has me mimicking djos feelings on kush (see above post). I need moooooore from kush to solve this, and before I would vote for him.

@Djo
The longer time goes on, you are slowly losing town credibility with me. Your contribution is high, and frankly this is becoming your game because your posting like a 1/3+ of the posts lol (and have a 10 page filter). For simply this reason I want you still alive because you are so active. Ive liked your recent contributions though, so I just want more solid content from you, rather than being so all over the place. Thats the other thing. Because you are so 'everywhere' but havent ever had really strong opinions on things (besides me for most of day1) it makes your 'unsure trying to be safe townie' look change to a 'careful mafia' look the longer time goes on. Ignore the pokes at you that lack real substance and give us more cases to discuss rather than your play. Your case against me was good, it got me to shape up and post better. And I like this discussion between cheese if it will get deeper.

@Mr cheese.
Kinda the same read I have with djo. The longer time goes on the more it seems like you are being super neutral/safe. Nothing you post has an edge to it, which while it is a quality I admire, it makes it difficult to really confirm anything with you, which leads to greater suspicions. The only real scum-hunting cases you have had are against da0ud and djo. I thought your arguments against da0ud were good because they were true, da0ud was acting scummy. So dont feel bad about it, keep going on the case with djo and see it you can get anything new. I would really like more so I can solidify my ideas about djo.


I honestly find it difficult to comprehend everything he's saying in the first three paragraphs. It's a lot of speculation and "I think's" that don't reveal anything. He's not being strong in his wording. (I.E He is doing this, this is what's happening).The wall of text sure looks like he's contributing... The two @'s on the bottom reveal that he's null/town on me and null/scummy on Djo. Nothing really strong of opinion.

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote:
@Rad
As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself.
This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 01:13 kushm4sta wrote:

djo is scum btw guys


and then another post right after

Show nested quote +
On October 28 2012 02:32 kushm4sta wrote:
Djo is
#1 acting like my lynch is a certainty when it's definitely not. I have a lot of time to show you guys I am town and I will.
#2 Covering his ass if I get mislynched. Yet again.

I already told you I will make the case on you at the end of n1. You can defend yourself d2.

And you are telling vig to shoot me?? Seriously?? Because I pushed a mislynch d1.. lol that happens almost every game. And it was way better than you who was just liek damn guys I dont know who to lynch TT

On October 28 2012 01:43 Djodref wrote:
Also if anyone has some questions regarding my case, it might be a good time to discuss about it now
So if you have some points against me that you feel that I didn't correctly addressed,
I have a feeling that you guys are considering defense as important as scumhunting so I'm willing to defend myself as much as I can now.

@ Kush

I'm not totally sold on you being scum right now: there is still a possibility for you to be town in my opinion.

@ everyone
I would recommend everyone to be wary because it could be very easy for mafia to mislynch Kush right now if he is town. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I was mafia in my last game and we benefited from the greatest mislynch ever on D2 because nobody took the time to think about the lynch twice.



So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted.
Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong.
spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all.


This seems more like a summary of recent events than any real input whatsoever. All he says is: "I'm wary of him [Kush], but I do not know enough".

It could just be bad town play, but these posts, in addition to a lack of scumhunting, don't seem like an actual contribution at all.


And in response to it...
On October 29 2012 12:30 Inigmaticalism wrote:
k fine im absolutely horrible. Which means rad, debears, Mr CC and/or alsn are the mafia. Good job.


His next post is a vote for me. Okay so he thinks Djo is a good scum candidate because of my case, proceeds to sheep onto the Dandel vote, and then OMGUS votes me because I called him out for lurking / not contributing. I also like how he doesn't even mention Roco or Nack as possibilities for being scum, but everyone else could be.

He voted me for two reasons:
1.) So he wouldn't be responsible for the Djo lynch.
2.) I was calling him out / had suspicions of him.

If I was lynched, everyone would be on Djo's ass right now and my suspicions of Inig would have been sated. If Djo is lynched, he looks good because he opposed it. Either way voting me is good for him as scum.

The response here shows that he only gets emotional / ragequits when someone has an argument against him (guilty conscience). A defense based on "I get really emotional sometimes, and that's why I can't defend myself" is pretty much BS. He's a pressured scum that can't defend himself so reacts by lashing out.

Later, he gives us the excuse about ragequitting and emotion.

On October 31 2012 07:09 Inigmaticalism wrote:
I have decided to relent a little, in the hopes that someone still alive is actually town. Yay for nack.

To explain what happened: I ragequit. And I apologize for that, I had no idea I would find mafia so emotionally taxing. (Mafia LITERALLY takes 8+ hours a day to play properly, so if I ever play again itll have to be when I am out of school and real life demands are at an all time low. Oh ya, and itll be fun getting shut down by everyone who looks at meta knowing they can just make me ragequit if they want.) The whole town needs to also kill the SK but it wasnt specified in the set-up was the last straw. Ive seen set-ups that specifically say town needs to eliminate all third parties or all threats to town, and this one didnt. If its always assumed that this is the case Im sorry, because Im new. I am glad the hosts stated it was the case later though. In any case, I had already shown myself that I couldnt make logical posts when upset, so I stepped away. (Cheese asked what my last post (besides that voting one) meant, here ya go).

By the time I came back, it was too late to say anything. the majority thought I was scum regardless (and still do), and it was shown when I voted and almost got lynched for it (ill get to that in a minute). Besides, no one listened to what I said before, why now? I was the one to first suggest Rad and debears were town, which went largely ignored, then suddenly people started coming to the same conclusion all on their own. Also, its EXTREMELY suspicious in my eyes that no one has ever challenged this at all, but maybe only because ive been wrong about everything. I was the FIRST ONE to cast suspicion/pressure on Dandel, only dandel and da0ud paid any attention. Alsn makes a case on dandel Day2, I join the cause Ive already been fighting for, and everyone says Im sheeping the case. ....WHAT?? Ok, sheeping: the act of following an argument you originally had that was brought up again by someone else. Or people just didnt read my 'walls of text'. (And btw, since Ive been wrong about everything, you Dandel are now leaning townie in my eyes. But not that it matters.)

To me, only two things made sense: town was bad, or mafia were the active ones and had successfully gotten me out of the picture. (and/or Im really bad). I already knew I knew nothing and had nothing to go on. As time went on Djo became less and less scummy to me, perhaps because he was actually interested in playing the game and winning rather than everyone else who just seems to want to be right about everything. If my new theory that the town circle was infested with scum, why not vote against them? I decided if nothing else, I wanted Djo to see his goals realized whatever they may be, so voted for cheese as djo requested. (Sure, "if he was mafia you werent playing to your win-con". Yes I agree, accept at the time I decided I thought Djo was town, so I was.) Admittedly, this game has been one of the least fun things I have done on the internet, but that last minute Day2 voting crazyness was actually really fun, I have to say, regardless of how it turned out. And Roco earned points in my book for doing what I did too, that was sooooo fun. And the whole mislynch almost on me too. Would have been better than killing djo at least.

This is my explaination, and I refuse to defend myself any further. It would be pointless. You have already decided what you are going to do with me (think in your head, you already know what youre going to do, even if you havent said it). All that you really want is my vote, which I am keeping for myself, and with it I will continue Djo's legacy against Cheese. And if Im still alive after that perhaps Ill follow Nack, although with him recently bringing the hammer of judgement down on the mafias I hope he lives through tonight.

This town is horrible, and I am one of the worst ones, I know. Or, perhaps, its a newbish town vs a more experienced mafia, but within context both are still true. Im interested in seeing what the case was when the game is over. The reason I say this is because town is still arguing over lack-luster stuff!! The ONLY thing town has going for them right now in terms of finding mafia is luker policy lynching!! Thats IT!!!! It is OBVIOUS were screwed if there are 3 mafia and a SK like nack said, why are you guys arguing about it? The only scum-hunting cases at the moment are the ones against cheese and alsn because nack brought them back up because no one cares what djo said before he died, and everyones actually MAD about it (although since I think its the scum, that would make sense). I do not discount myself from this, because I know I said I would look up cases against people and havent, so I am as much to blame.


Why does Inig think Nack is town? There is no reason to believe so at all. He also openly says that he's probably going to vote for me because I lynched Djo, or aimlessly follow Nack for whatever reason. What??? Either Inig is putting his full faith into Nack for zero reason, or they are scumbuddies and he's trying to play him off as town. In addition, he buddies up Roco by saying what they did (last minute votes) was "really cool". Also, it really wouldn't surprise me at this point if he voted Dandel, despite him saying he's leaning "mostly townie", as an attempt to bus in the event they are both scum or to just consolidate for a mislynch.

Inig's posts seem to be a fake cry that says "I'm a distressed town! Really emotional about this whole thing, because I do care!"

Inig says that he's one of the worst towns. Either he is the worst town ever, or he's scum trying to cover his tracks with this appeal to emotion and playing the newbie card. I find 4 blues to be more plausible (especially with no mason claims, the possibility of scum power roles, and maybe a miller) than Inig flipping green.

His actions are notoriously anti-town, even moreso than just lurking like Roco. At this point, I see no reason to not lynch him.

##Vote: Inig


@Debears + Alsn

Your votes on Dandel are basically just to consolidate with Nack, and rest on the fact that 4 blues is a wish-washy scenario. What do you think about Inig and his behavior?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 20:26 GMT
#1672
On November 02 2012 05:17 Alsn wrote:
I've looked over your case, and while I don't necessarily disagree that Inig does look scummy, something else sticks out much more to me. What I find interesting is that you're trying to dismiss the massive amount of discussion we've had with regards to Dandel as if it was entirely based on the unlikelihood of four blues?


I'm not dismissing it. It just seems to me that's what the entire thing boils down to with him, a glorified coin flip. You've been pretty flip-floppy with your opinions on everyone, and Debears literally said he's voting to consolidate on one person. Dandel is 50-50 to me at this point, but Inig is 75-25 in my eyes. I don't see any town motivation for any of his actions.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 20:57 GMT
#1677
Most of the dead townies thought Inig was either scum or newbie town. Only kush/djo took a firm stance on the newbie town part.

His motivation is that I had been bringing up scummy things he was doing. After I posted my thing about "walls of text" he just ragequit and called rad/you/debears/dandel/me possible scum. I was the only person who pointed this stuff out, he saw the last minute bandwagon on me, and decided to join in. Also, in the event that Djo got lynched instead of me, he would look good because he was pro-Djo (hence his vote post: For Djo!)

Just staying on Dandel would have made it seem like he didn't care who was being lynched. Even Roco voted between the two of us.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 21:06 GMT
#1678
You also forget that Djo had a whole case on Inig D1, so he definitely saw scum motivation someway or another.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 21:36 GMT
#1684
On November 02 2012 06:18 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 05:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Most [s]ALL[s] sof the dead townies Everyone thought thinks Inig was either scum or newbie town. Wow. I never knew. Only kush/djo took a firm stance on the newbie town part. And youre forgetting Rad. Thats half of them.

His motivation is that I had been bringing up scummy things he was doing. Ya, good job. But dont pretend to speak for me. Its annoying. After I posted my thing about "walls of text" after the debate about town killing SK. you really dont read my walls of text he just ragequit and called rad/you/debears/dandel/me possible scum. You forgot whoevers still alive too. I was the only person who pointed this stuff out, probably true, he saw the last minute bandwagon on me, and decided to join in because I started it after djo set it up. Also, in the event that Djo got lynched instead of me, he would look good because he was pro-Djo (hence his vote post: For Djo!) except if he woulda flipped maifa then he would look bad. 2+2=4

Just staying on Dandel would have made it seem like he didn't care who was being lynched. What? stop speaking for me, youre doing it again. Even Roco voted between the two of us. And Ive somehow missed the fact that he joined the bandwagon after Inig, and should probably have said inigma set it off and Roco joined instead of switch the 2 around.


replied in bold. Im replying cause this post made me laugh so hard. Whew. Ouch. Ok im better now.

##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake

If you want to derail the thread or the vote on scum Dandel or whatever at least try. Your first posts at least seemed good.
*If we need a lot of help getting dandel killed I may help, idk yet.


Lol, you knew djo wouldn't flip scum; that's the whole point because you're scum. Your reply is laughable because Alsn just asked me what your motivations were, and I replied by giving what I think they were as scum. Of course I'm speaking on your behalf. The only point you make that actually is relevant is the thing about Roco. Oh, and it's obvious you're active lurking at this point because the second you get something addressed to you, you show up. Nice try to discredit me with all the fancy crossouts / irrelevant information. Nice OMGUS vote too. You're just digging yourself further into the grave as far as I'm concerned.

If you think I'm trying to derail the thread, highly contrary. It's fairly obvious that Dandel is going to be lynched. I'm giving my opinion on who is the scummiest instead of just sheeping onto the vote.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 22:25 GMT
#1692
@Alsn

For Nack, as I previously said I think he's trying to act all high and mighty to lead the town. He sites all of his experience thinking that we'll believe his every action and word. We don't know if he's town, and quite frankly, I don't want to believe he's town. He thinks you and I are scumbuddies... and the reasons for voting Dandel are pretty obvious, but he could be advocating it just to lead us into a mislynch.

For Debears, he's been pretty consistent. He seems like he goes out of his way to look up stuff from other games, etc to prove his point (see: Meta of Dandel). I find it odd that he just votes Dandel without considering other possibilities. He should be, if he is town, fighting for his top scum read because this is lylo. (If it's Dandel, so be it).

Alsn, I don't know what to think of you. You're all over the place. Dandel's scum, then he's not, then he is again--but at least I can see where you are coming from. Your recent activity wants me to believe you town, because you do actually care about this lynch.

I'm fairly convinced Inig is scum, especially with his sudden reaction to a single vote. I can't see another way about him. Nack being scum with him would only make sense, because Inig for some reason trusts him unconditionally and won't question his authority (unlike yourself, Alsn).

As for myself, I may as well post this now considering the OMGUS vote on me, even though it won't make much of a difference. I'm Rose the Vanilla Townie (Thanks for the killer name Thrawn).
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 22:57 GMT
#1714
If me giving my opinion on Inig was derailing the thread, then what the heck is this talk about rolecops / Nack accusing Alsn of being scum?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:02 GMT
#1717
@Dandel

Do you really find Inig townier than I? How can you look at his obvious active lurking + confirming nack as "town" and say that?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:09 GMT
#1723
Inig, you suddenly say you don't consider Nack confirmed town right when I accuse you of it (it was obvious you were buddying him up, don't deny it)
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:18 GMT
#1737
Inig > roco lynch.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:20 GMT
#1738
I love how inig shows up at the last second, in a lylo situation, the only moment where it counts to attempt to sway the vote. Need I say it again? Active lurking the entire game. Scummy as hell.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:26 GMT
#1745
Debears really wouldn't surprise me as being in the scumteam at this point. where the hell is he anyway??
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:49 GMT
#1768
Roco? i believe he waits until t minus 5 mins to spew something.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:52 GMT
#1771
Nah, he didn't vote d1 so he is exempt from the rules. That elusive roco
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:55 GMT
#1775
May God have mercy on your soul, Inigmaticalism.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 01 2012 23:59 GMT
#1785
My name is Rose and i condemn your soul to the depths of HEEEEEEELL
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:12 GMT
#1803
THE CHEESECAKE GODFATHER PREVAILS
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:15 GMT
#1812
I was actually a Strawberry cheesecake

Big shoutouts to Thrawn and my boss scumteam. I suggest you guys read the QT it was hilarious at times.

BIG APOLOGIES TO DJODREF I LOVE YOU
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:16 GMT
#1816
Alsn, I reallly thought he might be SK. a small chance.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:26 GMT
#1839
Well to be fair we thought roco was gonna get the MK/replace. Inig was only semi lurking. I didn't mind his kush kill because kush is kush
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:30 GMT
#1848
Analysis of this game:

Me: /in

Suddenly, lurkers

The Mafia has won!
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:37 GMT
#1854
Everyone in love with me.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:41 GMT
#1859
@Djo

Please no hard feelings about this game. Same to Inig. You guys are absolutely awesome, and btw I actually love the whole smileydjo thing.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:47 GMT
#1865
Im /in for the next newbie. *anticipates copious amounts of /obs*
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 00:57 GMT
#1872
cant quote because my phone won't let me. Sylver apparently investigated me n1 ---> the irony is that I was the GF, AND I ordered your kill :p
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 02:04 GMT
#1892
My play was obviously very bad after your case on Dandel, Alsn. I got a little scared, and combined with such little sleep, my game was so sketchy. Def. learned a ton from this game. I'm sure that being Mr. Cheesecake, the headmaster of all that is rich dessert, will help me in the next game. Really hope I role town -- Would love to play from the opposite perspective.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
November 02 2012 02:05 GMT
#1893
@Debears

But I really pulled that inig stuff out of my ass. The only thing it did was draw him out, and luckily for us, he made himself look scummy at the last minute
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
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