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@Alsn
I address this in bold.
On October 31 2012 01:49 Alsn wrote:Ok, working yet again under the theory that Cheese and Dandel are of different alignments, I'm seriously starting consider if Cheese might be the third scum. First of all, I find Cheese' explanation for why he thought Djod was scum and not SK highly suspect. Mostly because he made the clarification for why he thought so after Rad claimed vigi. At the time, I was considering a slight possibility for Djo to be SK. After the NK, there was either an SK or Vig. I was sure he was scum, and if not scum then surely SK. (SK would have been the case for his lone wolf behavior). Once Rad claimed Vig, I had Djo pinned as scum.Secondly, he kept Dandel open as a lynch target as soon as I made my case but he had given no indication whatsoever earlier in the thread that he really thought Dandel was scummy. The one time he actually gives his opinion on Dandel is a post giving Dandel advice that he shouldn't "act" confused. If anything, that's the very definition of scum behaviour, offering friendly advice to players they know to be town. Link here. The only thing I found suspect concerning Dandel was the fact that he was acting confused. Someone going around being like "Damn, I'm confused, Idk who's scum!" is almost as bad as playing the newbie card. In other words, telling people that you have no idea about anything isn't contributing anything. I wasn't offering him advice; I was calling him out for it. The reason I kept Dandel open as a lynch target was mainly due to his flaming. I didn't really like your case to much, but I found Dandel's reaction under pressure odd. Afterwards, he explained himself, and I wanted to continue with my Djo case because it was based on more solid facts.Then after several posts of actually agreeing that Dandel looks scummy, he goes around and says here that - and I'm paraphrasing - "no wait, actually, I never thought Dandel was all that scummy, only his response to your case!" as well as saying my case sucked because the premise was bad. Yet the only thing my premise even suggested was that I thought Djod acting like a lone scum seemed weird and I looked at other possibilities because of it. Dandel tunnelling kush while in hindsight he probably only meant to do because kush is kush, at the time it was most certainly not a bad argument(and still isn't, but Dandel's other actions look much better for him at this point). Again, the reason I found Dandel scummy was because of his behavior in reaction to your post, not because of your case itself. This is the same reason I found Inig to be suspicious Day 1--the part where he was getting all emotional and calling arguments stupid. I was considering switching my vote because flamming, and subsequently not explaining yourself, just screams "I'm scum, I slipped and can't defend myself".Interestingly, the point that this happened at is after several posters had criticised me for WIFOMing about Djod(debears among others) so now Cheese must be feeling that he can't keep the option of lynching Dandel instead of Djod open any longer and tries to shut any non-Djod lynch down. I reckon he probably expected Djod to continue acting scummy but unless he conspired with both Roco and Inig I don't think he could have predicted the day to end like it did. Who could have predicted this end to d2?The only thing I'm really questioning at this point is how exactly the pre-lynch chaos fits into all of this if both Roco and Inig are scum. Because then I don't see how Cheese could possibly be scum as unless it's an extremely ballsy bluff it just doesn't fit. I don't think scum were in any position to have to gamble on bluffing at all, getting Djod lynched seems like a pretty good result for scum to me. Basically, right now unless I find someone else that I consider more scummy, I need to decide whether or not I want to take the risk of lynching Inig or Roco(still leaning Roco in that case by the way) or to go with an actual case, because I just don't think a rock solid case can be made against either of them. I sincerely hope that they actually try and participate from this point because otherwise I still don't see how I have any other choice than to lynch one of them.
@ Nack
I was responding to Rad's question: "What did the dead think about Roco/Inig?" To be honest, they thought the same things we are thinking now, which isn't much help. And I've been suspecting Inig since the other day. How do you know Debears is town?
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On October 31 2012 02:42 Alsn wrote:
Your first retort doesn't make sense. I just don't understand how you can be sure someone is scum, yet if not then he must be a serial killer? The way scum and serial killer plays should be vastly different. If anything, suspecting someone as being scum should eliminate suspicions that he's a serial killer simply because their objectives and likely behaviours are vastly different.
Are their behaviors really that different? Both would want to come off as town, just like everyone does. I've always figured that scum and SK would want to play in a similar way. The only difference is that the SK doesn't have the same information that scum has in terms of who's town.
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On October 30 2012 08:26 nackhtjogger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 08:15 Dandel Ion wrote:
Ugh, I'm not sure if I like Cheese's chances of flipping scum better than yours...
I'm looking through filter/cases on him.
But I dunno, man. I've had a scummy feel on you from pretty early on...
Well, I'll take another look, but so far Cheese has been nothing but a null read for me. I'm not positive I want to take what I consider to be a pretty big gamble... I suggest you rethink what you know about blending in because Cheesecake has neurotically tried it. He's the definition of trying to blend in.Also he publishes his case on Djo right after Djo says he's leaving. Then I post about him and he disappears. I'm not saying he's lying about his RL issues.. but if so he's choosing his availability very conveniently.
@ Nack
How, exactly, am I the definition of blending in?
Also, you come in this game late and pull my case out of thin air. Sheeping onto the djo/dandel vote would have made you suspicious, so you try to come up with something original. Your one post about me where you quote my Da0ud vote is based on nothing but "A scum would want you to believe this! He's trying to blend in!"
You then proceed to choke us with your so-called "experience", seemingly saying that you've played this game a lot before and your words are absolutely true. Why should we believe you?
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EBWOP: Also, so there's only 2 scum to worry about? You're trying to sell a 2 scum team, like we are obviously and most definitely scum and anything else is ludicrous.
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On October 31 2012 04:12 nackhtjogger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 03:58 Rad wrote:
@nackht aren't there 3 scum right now? Or am I confused O.o If there are 3 scums, there is nothing to discuss. It's game over.
It's been well-established that there are 3 scum in this game. The game starts with 3 and none have been killed yet. Math. So by your standard, since there are 3 scum, we shouldn't be discussing anything?
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On October 30 2012 02:17 nackhtjogger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Okay I just got back, and will be here pre and post lynch. My thoughts on the current state of affairs. It seems the lynch is in favor of Inig, but Da0ud following close behind. I think mafia have difficulties understanding how they are picked up by town, they sometimes don't realize that their input is of lesser quality in certain situations, like Cheese doesn't realize that you guys know the status of the game more than he should.. because he was busy with RL reasons.. so a summary of the status by him is in no way needed or appreciated .. but because he's scum he doesn't want to contribute, which is why he doesn't with this summary. I like how you pick on my "summary". It was a sentence long--I didn't contribute with ONE sentence? It was verifying that I was aware of the situation, and I had to choose. My vote on Djo is obviously not doing any good. Because, as I said, the way he's received by town is an issue he makes an assumption about towns feedback which in this case is a towns intolerance for the fact that his vote does nothing. Obviously that's not what he wants because he's town too right? No, he's scum.My vote was doing nothing. Plain and simple. If you can give me an explanation as to why it would have been better to sit there with my thumb up Djo's keister instead of weighing in on the debate, I'd like to hear it. I still consider him suspicious, and he is by no means off the hook. Now the assumption about towns feedback is that people are going to question his consistency... so he's like it's ok guys i got this, I'm not letting him off the hook. Of course I wouldn't let him off the hook, and I didn't because I found him scummy as hell. My efforts right now are better spent deciding who is a better lynch candidate: Da0ud or Inig. On Inig:Honestly, I have no idea why people suddenly started piling on top of him. I found him -slightly- suspicious after his emotional outburst and semi-lurking. However, since then he has been asking questions (to myself included) and improving his post count. The cases against him are weak, imo. I've read through them I don't see much of a reason to lynch him. I've underlined what I think is important here.. the fact that he doesn't want town to think that he hasn't read the stuff he's talking about, what's important is that people realize he's done his research, lol Why should I paraphrase/requote the entire Inig case? Everyone knows what it said, and I pointed some of it out earlier in the thread. His vote on Imcasey I don't view as scum-intentioned; it was an attempt to draw out the lurker. I don't think scum would be that bold, because a vote like that would (and surely did) draw attention. WIFOM Like most of your argument here. That is not at all blending in. His recent vote on Dandel, however, doesn't make sense from any role viewpoint I think, so I don't know what to think about that. I'll be reading more into his posts about Dandel later.
On Da0ud:I skimmed through the cases concerning him, and by my own standards think he is more scummy-looking than Inig. In particular, this post about the modkill. On October 26 2012 23:07 da0ud wrote:
One thing worries me and seems to have caught no ones attention.
Clarity has been modkilled!! We are already one less town!! And he was posting actual content. We all saw the modkill. This isn't contributing anything. Why talk about it? A townie died, there's nothing we can do about it, especially since he basically suicided. This is a useless topic. Town wouldn't complain about something like this in 5 sentences.. He does it because he's not sure how he is supposed to react to this behavior by da0ud but he assumes that it bothers town so he tries to blend in by saying .. hey it bothers me too, see .. I'm town too. I reacted to Da0ud's statement in the following way: He was MK'd, nothing we can do about it, it's not significant. I didn't understand why he'd attempt to bring a lot of attention to it.Then, there is the entire percentage-based town read on Djo. I believe Kush mentioned this. 90% town on the first day? I most surely don't see it that way, and a 90% town read based on little concrete evidence? I don't get it. OK, I'm pretty sure about this one. Djo, is like the most enigmatic thing that I've ever seen in my mafiaplaying career which involves around 10 games. I don't have a clue if he's scum and neither do you guys if you are honest. But Cheese doesn't know that he shouldn't know, he doesn't realize how strange the Djo phenomenon is for us. I mean you guys pushed him .. had him at the brink, what seemed like forever .. time and time again the same pressure but he somehow dodged it matrix style and cool every time. So never would any of you or I get into a fight with someone about their opinion on Djo. To Cheese however this looked like a dog-pile from town on a townie and he thinks that if he could just push a little more that it would go through, and then someone comes along and says Djo is 90% town to them and decides this is the opportunity to pick on it. But in doing so he just signaled me the rift between town and scum and that he must be on the other side of it. Who cares about your mafia experience? It's irrelevant. I also have no idea what you're trying to say.In addition, he's a semi-lurker / blending in. There is also an entire meta-arguement against him as well. I cannot address this as I know nothing of his previous game meta. This being said, I find Da0ud to be much more scummier than Inig. ##Vote: Da0udI apologize for not being here sooner and for this post being somewhat rushed; I had a personal matter to attend to that required my immediate assistance.
I address your bolded "case" in underline.
Most of your argument is "Scum want you to believe he's doing this"
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@Dandel
What's the purpose in asking him if he's been roleblocked?
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@Alsn
You sure do change opinions a lot. You thought Dandel was scum, then thought he was town after RB claim, now after Rad does in fact flip vig you consider him scum again? I understand the setup considerations you mention, but your opinion seems to be swaying from one extreme to the other very quickly. What's your opinion on a Roco / Inig lynch?
Also, at this point, a ton of lynches are looking like coin flips to me. The only one I don't see having much a chance to flip red is Debears. Roco/Nack/Inig are looking 50/50 to me. Maybe Roco a bit more if he's a scum that just refused to post so he couldn't get called out and skates by on just a vote post. (Why wasn't he NK'd... GAH)
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@Debears
Maybe the Rad flip really did catch him off guard? I agree that his opinion switching is a tad odd, but maybe the flip just hit the switch for him and suddenly everything was clear?
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That's the whole problem with the setup thing then. Everything is based on assumptions. It's why I had such trouble getting on the Dandel wagon at first--because people were assuming things.
Now that we know rad killed Kush n1... I'm trying to think -- what was the scum motivation for killing Sylver? It might be completely off-base but I'm willing to look into anything that isn't speculation or a lurker right now.
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Heh, I really didn't get a blue vibe from him. I guess, perhaps it was just a random shot. Dandel's claim... it's not air-tight but it's completely plausible. Lynching him on the premise of setup is about on par with lynching a lurker right now. The part where he claims to have RB'd Inig but was RB'd himself is also entirely plausible... but we can't know for sure.
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As in later tonight or tomorrow?
I'm pretty sure it is mylo atm.
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Alright I still have a paper to write since classes were cancelled past couple of days and I've been procrastinating. See you guys tomorrow.
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@Debears
Day 1 I had said that "something grave had come up" and that I'd be gone. This occurrence was my dad blacking out in the bathroom and hitting his head on the sink--so I took him for medical care. Luckily no major injury. As for today, I spent the entirety of last night writing two papers, I caught ~1 1/2 hours of shut-eye, went to class, got home and fell asleep from around 3p.m-7:00ish (~1:15 mins ago). Trick-or-treaters woke me up. gg sleep schedule.
If you have any questions feel free to ask them now. I have some thoughts I'll share in a moment once I make some dinner (breakfast?).
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On November 01 2012 09:21 Alsn wrote:
Oh well, I guess I'll go sleep. I sincerely hope that Inig and Roco show up and that you've actually done some talking to them by the time I wake up.
I predict a little snippet by Inig, and I bet roco just plops down his vote with nothing else.
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On the lurkers...
Roco is nothing more than a glorified coin flip. Hasn't said anything the entire game and is skating by on vote posts. If this weren't lylo, I'm almost certain we'd be dog piling on top of him. Nothing he has done is indicative as even remotely pro-town.
As for Inig, I found his play to be scummy because of semi-lurking, posting little content, and sheeping the popular cases. He comes in the thread and gives us some excuse about emotional burdens and ragequitting. Suddenly, everyone doesn't seem to even consider the possibility of him flipping red. I'm not discounting how true his claim is -- but that would be one sad way to lose if he is scum playing the simultaneous noob town / emotional card.
Concerning Dandel...
Ugh, I don't know what to think. Claiming to have RB'd Inig... He, himself could lying, maybe Inig is lying. Maybe both are telling the truth. Seems like a 50-50 chance that he's scum, and I'm finding it difficult to get behind a Dandel lynch for the same reasons I couldn't d2: there is just too much riding on assumption / speculation.
On Nack
I said somewhere before that he's trying to "choke us with his experience". Trying to come in this thread and assert his authority by assuring us that he's really good at this game, knows who the scum are, and is most definitely town. His case against me is based purely on WIFOM and I'm not even sure where he's coming from on my "scumbuddy" Alsn. I invoke the words of the late Kush to assist me:
On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote:
Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss?
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On November 01 2012 09:47 debears wrote:@AlsnI went through a game of the UberNinja/Nackht mafiascum games. I looked at this game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23437&start=175I find that he is likely UberNinja. His posting style (trolling, quoting and confusing) and timing (posting in clusters) ring true in the mafiascum game
Just glanced over that, "this vote is lolcakes" made me giggle. To come here and claim "I've got a trolly meta, no worries it's all good" is pretty rich, however.
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EPT
