EPTThat's just sitting back and hoping others do the work for you. And THAT'S the best-case scenario where I, for the sake of this argument assume a town perspective.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 3
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That's just sitting back and hoping others do the work for you. And THAT'S the best-case scenario where I, for the sake of this argument assume a town perspective. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 03:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Okay guys I'm back from class, will be on for the rest of the night. Following up my FoS on Djodref--He's seeming more scummy as time goes on. I'm concerned about his attitude in the thread. Check his filter, and look at how many ^^  :p, etc there are. He even uses a smiley when addressing his supposed scumslip, a time when you should be definite about your defense. He even gives Debears a <3 at some point. What is this all about? I think he's trying to show himself in a happy, innocent, and loving light; perhaps to cover up something sinister. This could just be his personality, but I don't buy it for a second.Also, why would you say this, Djodref? Everybody's "principal concern" is to find mafia. Sort of like that "why are you afraid of seeming suspicious" question -- the answer is self explanatory. I fail to see a point here. That's what I have to say concerning Djodref atm, and my FoS still applies. In terms of the most active poster, Debears, I've a slight town read on him. Promoting discussion, getting people to talk. Could be scum trying to seem active, but I see no fault with him as of yet. I'll be looking through the rest of the thread to get reads on other posters. Are you seriously making a case on smilies? The only thing that even remotely has a point is his "<3 debears", but just because it seems a bit like he's buddying him up. Not because it makes him look 'happy'. I must admit, I'm a little bit worried about a djo+debears scumteam, but not nearly enough to even FoS either of them. I'm also (even less) worried about a djo+daoud scumteam, since the slip and following call-out on it might have been intentional. At this point, I realize I'm getting paranoid. And I'm getting carried away with my hard-on for association cases, and I am currently trying to get away from that too. Taking a break from thinking about this game... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
There are (or were, at least) some suspicions of Alsn based on his meta, and I just want to weigh in with this: He said he has college entrace exams tomorrow. Assuming that's true (and I see no reason why it shouldn't be), that explains his absence. You gotta learn for things like that. Just to say, I'm not going to be up for an Alan lynch today, in case somebody actually planned to do that. His posts were not scummy so far, and the only argument against him could be meta. Which, in light of this, is not a good argument even. We can revisit this if he still plays like that after Saturday. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 18:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: If I couldnt lynch any lurkers I really wouldnt want to lynch, but we have to. -Asln has posts (if im right) 3 posts so far. Almost just says 'Im here', but at least he contributes something (FOS at you mostly). I would want to vote for him later simply because he actually said something. -Sylvers interesting because he has tried to be helpful in his own way (role-hunting, player list repost), but once we made him clarify what he was doing hes been silent. Discouraged townie or having a hard time finding fact stuff to post? Really not sure. -Roco has 2 posts and says nothing. Yeah, policy stuff, but really policy stuff can be said at one time and then the player can vote however they really want to vote later. Once again, maybe townie shut down once he voiced his opinion? Cept hes scummier to me since he doesnt say anything. Roco and Asln, post a few more posts! They can be real simple, just give 1 or a few scum-reads and a few reasons/facts to back them up. Its ok if they rip you apart, they did me, its about getting some more info/different insight out there for town. -Dandel may be my biggest strong scum read. Its funny, most people go after those who post lots and those who post little, not those who post a decent amount(cheesecake, dandel) or not at all(oats, imcasey). Hes been fairly active, pushing different discussions here and there, nothing too major, thats what Ive been doing. Then he takes up a case against Roco, and not only is Roco probably the easiest target to target, but he doesnt even get real serious about it. He FOS to make it LOOk strong, but explains why hes being soft about it here: He also says how hes not going to let Roco slide, and thats exactly what hes done. Not one mention of Roco in the few posts hes made after that. And he seems to talk to all the semi-lurkers and Djo. Not sure if thats anything important, but Ill keep it in mind. THEN he tries to start EVEN MORE policy discussion, again, in my own words, "stupid (because I was frustrated) and pointless." Contributing to killing time rather than scum-hunting. No attempt to explain why not either, just getting everyones policy straight is "important": Like I said, because you can simply change your stance and have wonderful excuses like "of course Id lynch scum over my policy, duh" or whatever, its wasted time. Not only does it look like its a pro-town move, but I would think mafia would benefit more from town knowing how people were going to vote. Swing lynches easier. (And that BETTER NOT be wifom. Cause I think its a darn good idea). - I am most willing to Vote for Dandel, and if I have any time for more scumhunting, it will be on you dan. Please feel free to reply to this so I can think about what to do before lynch-time. -Mr. CC I like his style a lot, and have thought he was very townie. However, I need to actually read what hes said just like I just did to dandel to see if its content or fluff, but I REALLY need to sleep, so I cant. One of you lurkers (or someone), take up this job while Im lurking between now and lynch-time. Otherwise Ill get to it Day2 if Im still alive. The only thing against him is the post I made a few posts up about him giving me a seriously stern 'look', where its almost like he defends and attacks me at the same time. So....interesting. -Da0ud is somewhere among my roco dandel alsn (discounting no posters) list, but I honestly have no idea what hes said, and without knowing this knowledge I would be uncomfortable voting for him right now. -And that leaves the rest of you Ive made the risky leap of faith to label as townies for now: Djo, rad, debears, and Mr CC depending on what he says and when I read all his stuff. I am very hesitant to do this, but I think I will have plenty of time to change my vote. I would vote for you right now Dandel, and will do so at the end of the day if you fail to answer any of my questions, but while we wait for your responses I want to poke for more information. ##Vote: imcasey Tell me why I should not vote for you. Thanks for digging this up an hour before I would have addressed it anyways. Why I FoS'd Roco: It should be clear from my post, I would have thought, but I wanted to pressure him. Into explaining himself, into making scumreads, anything. Sadly, he has not done that. You probably don't understand this concept, but one of the hardest things in Newbie games is finding out if somebody is bad-town or scum. Do you honestly think I would have an awesomesauce 100% scumread on somebody after 2 posts? No can do, sorry. Which is why I wanted him to post more, to find out. He's not done that, which makes him MORE suspicious to me. It can be an intentional strategy: He doesn't post after being under suspicion, then before the deadline he comes in to vote somebody, so he doesn't get modkilled. The thing now: If he does that, he's confirmed himself scum in my eyes. If he doesn't do that, he gets modkilled for not voting. Logical conclusion: Despite what I said yesterday about lynching him if he doesn't post (which I primarily said to get him to post), I don't really want to vote him TODAY. Because assuming he keeps the lurking up, he either confirms himself scum or gets modkilled. If he starts posting normally again, I'm gonna have to rethink that again, but seeing as he's been afk for >24 hours already, that's unlikely anyways. I explained why I like to emphasise lurker policy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=19#362 I even dumbed it down really hard in that post, you should be able to understand it. No, town benefits from having more information. Your argument IS WIFOM. Again. Stop it. What's even worse, is that you seem to possess the mental capability to UNDERSTAND lurker policy (reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=10#198 For lurking I think it seems even more of an issue in Newbie games than regular games because too many lurkers results in mafia wins most of the time in the Newbie games I looked at. That said, if we get any confirmed mafia I'll always vote confirmed mafias over suspicious lurkers. This quote, you not only show that you understand lurkers are a problem for town, yet you find me suspicious for trying to limit the lurking in this game? Because doing something that's good for town and bad for scum, through some random reason translates to "OH BOY THIS GUY IS SUSPICIOUS AS HELL" in your brain? I don't get it. You're not making sense imo. AND THE WORST PART: You do the same fucking thing you accuse me of doing to Roco, just worse. (because casey looks like a serious modkill candidate, and didn't say anything you could derive a scumread from. I was at least going for the lurker that had scummy posts, you just told yourself "Yes, going for a 25% chance of hitting scum is a good idea!") You're a hypocrite, and I think you're scum. But, in contrast to you, I won't just call you scummy in a big post and then vote a random dude that has a high chance of getting modkilled. I'm voting you! ##vote Inigmaticalism | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
When he contradicts himself (or basic logic) doing so. I think his case on me is fake and constructed, which is something scum would do. Not town. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
If you don't believe that argument, check out my first game (NMM XXIII). Where we caught a scum because he posted huge-ass posts throwing light suspicion in every direction, without commiting to any. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Doesn't Kush have the obs qt link? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 21:35 sylverfyre wrote: [...] If he either becomes A) not confusing, B) makes no action at all and makes me believe a modkill is incoming, or C) is replaced and the replacement can make some contribution. Vote Roco69 I think your sentence is not complete. I hope you meant to say that you will vote somebody else then? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I can see, however, that Ingi lynch will probably not go through today, since nobody wants to support it. I'm keeping my vote on him for now (because, conversely, I don't find the Djo suspicions to be too compelling) and I still have hope that maybe some people will look at it the same way. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 22:50 Alsn wrote: Hang on, what? da0ud I'd like you to explain why you think Inig "blending in" is suspicious enough to vote him, yet you don't even mention myself? If anything, I'm far more guilty of "blending in" than Inig and I get the feeling that you're just sheeping right now. What puzzles me is that he still brings that up, even though it's not really true anymore. I mean, I think Inig probably scum, but not because of lurking or whatever, but because his case + the casey vote smell like scumplay to me. daoud, I expect better reasoning than that. It really gets me paranoid when people sheep on cases like you did, this early in the game. Man, I'm even less sure of anything now. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 26 2012 22:56 Djodref wrote: @Dandel We have plurality lynch system, so we don't need to consolidate, and I have no idea how many people are actually going to vote today... Could you tell us more about why you want to lynch Ini ? You just HAVE to ask this while I'm getting second thoughts about it... My case, combined with my defense of his post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=25#482 I should probably have split the two better, I guess. What made my originally suspicious (apart from the whole not-doing-anything he did for a long time), I explained here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=20#382 I didn't word to too agressively, because just this one thing wouldn't make him scum alone. But, both of those factors combined, he's (still) my stronged scumread right now. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
That said, my thoughts on daoud: As I have stated right after his return-post, his reasons for voting Inig are really weak. Mentions lurking and "blending in" (which he doesn't exactly do anymore) as reasons, and later, when called out on it, he just say he agrees with my case, nothing else added. I don't like that much. I haven't played with daoud before, but Kush has, and he has pointed out some meta discrepancies. Is there somebody else that can weigh in on that? Or some specifics would be helpful too... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It's been said, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it: With how active he's being, his alignment will show sooner or later. He might cut back on his posting pace, then that's scummy. He might contradict himself and slip, that's scummy too. Or he doesn't do any of those, which I hope will happen. I understand that his play was scummy-ish at parts, but we can always come back on that. He also at least put effort into staying alive, which is something other people have not done, and frankly, right now, I'd let him live just based off that. What I'd suggest now, with a bit more than 4 hours left into the day, is that people either: a) decide between Inig and daoud - good arguments have been made for either. or b) if they want to lynch somebody else, present a good reason. 5 people have not even voted. That's actually a horrible position for us. Inig has his vote absolutely USELESSLY parked on casey, for no reason. Cheesecake, lynching Djo today is not a good idea. You should decide on somebody else. Most important is actually that you do whatever you plan to do SOON. If everybody votes and voteswitches only in the hour before the lynch, it will be pure chaos. And I'd prefer to avoid chaos if possible. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:35 kushm4sta wrote: @debears I did post quotes from daoud last game. The case isn't Omg great but there's not a lot to go off of and I think he is out best option. Inig has contributed wayyy more. This is clear by sumply comparing their filters. I don't get your point about the survival instinct. Scum have a stronger survival instinct than town. So unless daoud is scum, it seems like it makes more sense for him to vote daoud if he's scum. No, it's optimal play for both alignments to stay alive themselves. Scum doesn't want to stay alive "more". The only exception is if you actively save a claimed blue or a confirmed town. But I sure haven't seen such a thing so far. And from what I gathered, there is no way Inig has a strong enough town read on daoud for it to make sense to get himself lynched over him. The only way this is town behaviour is if he doesn't want to play anyways, but his posting so far didn't suggest a lack of motivation. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:43 Dandel Ion wrote: No, it's optimal play for both alignments to stay alive themselves. Scum doesn't want to stay alive "more". The only exception is if you actively save a claimed blue or a confirmed town. But I sure haven't seen such a thing so far. And from what I gathered, there is no way Inig has a strong enough town read on daoud for it to make sense to get himself lynched over him. The only way this is town behaviour is if he doesn't want to play anyways, but his posting lately didn't suggest a lack of motivation. EWBOP: Actually instead of "so far" in the last sentence, "lately" would be a more apt description. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
This is WIFOM zone, I don't think anything will come out of us guessing about this. The point is, the way I see it, there is no reason for town OR scum to not vote daoud in that situation. It doesn't make sense, and thus I'm treating it as a nulltell. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
So I'm going to keep my vote on him unless somebody claims scum within the hour. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 08:53 Djodref wrote: ok, I'm really doubting my previous case against you. And you are actually trying to participate. I don't want to lynch you today. Problem is I don't want to lynch daoud neither. What should I do ? Vote somebody to not get modkilled would be a good start. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 09:10 kushm4sta wrote: sighhh he should have claimed. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 27 2012 08:24 Inigmaticalism wrote: I think da0ud and Dandel are a scum team. Reasons for: include they have each only ever talked to each other at least once, and the time Dandel talks to da0ud he says which may be fine but it sounds way too personal for them never have actually talking to each other. Reasons against: them both jumping on me after accusing Dandel would be poor scum play. And at that point in time, the only other lynch target was Djo. So possible scenarios include them being desperate, meaning Djo is also scum which I find hard to believe, or really was just poor scum play. So idk, it makes more sense to me that they are a scum team but not certain. Sick association case, tell me more. | ||
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