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On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail.
So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o
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Assuming Matt's hit was RS austin couldn't have been targeted him anyways.
Also as long as all actual claims are true, ghost isn't RS either.
Who the hell is RS then? Hiro/Jingle? Unless we try to get paranoid about you/S&B or get into WIFOM land about Matt (or if I get accused again like usual).
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JH's role sounds pretty good for a black scum team with no KP im just saying
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Is it possible there's another "traitor" that wins with Black Mesa instead?
If any of you is townie and has this alternate win condition please claim it.
Also, this is another reason why I didn't believe the "3-3 scum team"...
I mean, 6 scum plus 1 or more smie-traitors? That's basically unwinnable for town.
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On October 10 2012 01:56 Mattchew wrote:
JH's role sounds pretty good for a black scum team with no KP im just saying
Well your role sounds good for like any scum ever as well.
Matt, either claim Chell or be a townie, explain yourself/scumhunt/do shit/etc.
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Matt: care to answer gonzaw's questions about your bus targets?
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Granted JH's claim is too "safe" to claim as well.
Well, I can track him tonight and if he doesn't visit austin (the guy below him in the player list) he's lying.
It's possible that as BH/RS he'd have another "harmless" ability and would target austin for that reason though
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For instance Matt, there've been games where scum were in fact bus drivers and claimed town bus drivers (SSBM was one of them I think), so claiming alone doesn't absolve you.
Again, if you claim Chell at least we'll be like 99% sure you are not RS (flavour-wise, and also because my alternate win condition wouldn't make any sense "Kill all the RS scum team, once you do that you can win with the RS scum team!") and 80% sure you are town (again barring the possibility of Chell being recruited to BS or some shit like that).
If you don't want to claim Chell or claim something else prove your innocence the old-fashioned way: contribute and do shit.
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For now:
##unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
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Bleh
##Unvote
Unless Hiro or ghost claims Chell, then Matt probably isn't lying. Unless gonzaw and Matt are both scum on the same team and came up with the traitor theory to give credence to Matt claiming Chell....but they would have had to know that there is no Chell (which makes more sense than it normally would if they were given fake claims).
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also, im a vet + bus driver so that shot wasn't protected against me. I didn't even get notice that i was shot just that i should be careful because i don't have an extra life anymore
and gonzaw those questions are bad and loaded. draz was playing like (insert whatever you want here) and ghost was all the attention of iamperf (which i never noticed but he didn't vote for him)... I didn't know there was 2 scum teams so i figured he would be a townie that was likely unprotected but hard to lynch.
night 2 i had bad feelings about gonzaw, there was something off about his contributions and game play, but I knew he would be almost impossible to lynch. I went lone ranger status trying to win this game by myself. keirathi claimed in a way someone pointed out almost has to be town. figured that level of confirmation would earn him a shot eventually.
night 3 i had/have a bad feeling about hiro. he is posting in mostly one liners alongside what i felt was a weak agreement with my case against iamperf. keirathi explaination same as n2
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oh and i promised a case against hiro... so imma actually do that now
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On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o
I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny.
That would be an "I win" button for black.
Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad.
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On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad.
did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid
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On October 10 2012 02:47 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad. did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid
It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK?
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On October 10 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 02:47 Mattchew wrote:On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad. did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK?
if your scum team had no kp, being able to avoid kp from the other team would be completely balanced
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On October 10 2012 03:00 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 02:47 Mattchew wrote:On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad. did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK? if your scum team had no kp, being able to avoid kp from the other team would be completely balanced
Uhh, let's think. If a night passes, with no NK, and suddenly someone pushes for a lynch on someone, then, when they flip, they're town and couldn't have died to an NK the night prior, the people who wanted the lynch are pretty much confirmed scum.
And in a multi-faction game, with all of them at cross purposes, the one most in need of roles that can provide information and lynch control is the town.
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I know I'm town. I'm just explaining why the role as a scum role doesn't make much sense. Also, a lack of factional KP doesn't guarantee that the individuals on the team don't all have potential conditional KP like Crossfire did. I'd say that's plenty of balance in and of itself.
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On October 10 2012 03:03 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 03:00 Mattchew wrote:On October 10 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 02:47 Mattchew wrote:On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote:On October 10 2012 01:42 JingleHell wrote:
Well, since this seems to be happening, I'm Rick, The Adventure Core! I can go visit the person directly below me on the list at night, doing nothing, but avoiding KP directed at me.
That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up.
And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad. did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK? if your scum team had no kp, being able to avoid kp from the other team would be completely balanced Uhh, let's think. If a night passes, with no NK, and suddenly someone pushes for a lynch on someone, then, when they flip, they're town and couldn't have died to an NK the night prior, the people who wanted the lynch are pretty much confirmed scum. And in a multi-faction game, with all of them at cross purposes, the one most in need of roles that can provide information and lynch control is the town.
I don't get any of this. Minor point - your role doesn't provide information.
Then, your arguments for this ability being imbalanced if not town don't hold up.
(1) We've already had people not die from NKs. Nobody died last night. Mattchew claimed to take a hit but not die. Nobody has come out of the woodwork screaming for him to be lynched because there wasn't an NK.
(2) Even if someone DID call out a player who didn't die to an NK, we have no idea whether the out-caller is scum (factional NK) or vigi (town NK that didn't go through --> see Drazerk).
(3) You say that black scum can't have this role because then red scum couldn't shoot them. But black scum seems to have no factional KP and limited role KP based on what we've seen. How is it imbalanced for red to have to get 1 bulletproof black scum player lynched, when black scum seems to be relying on getting red scum lynched (can't NK them)? How does 1 black bulletproof member break the game when black seems to lack bullets to kill red, making red de facto bulletproof against black?
(4) Finally, none of your imbalance concerns apply to RED scum. Bulletproof red scum isn't worried about factional KP not hitting home on himself, doesn't push himself for lynch, etc. Your argument only works for bulletproof black scum, if it works at all.
I feel like you're fakeclaiming or hiding part of your role, maybe a way in which you ARE killable. Not that you should reveal that if you're town, but this doesn't feel like a truthful reveal, and I think your justifications for why this role would have to be town don't hold up.
Also, I still think you have to be town, so I don't get what's up here.
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EPT
