Right? I guess we can run all the way up to the deadline before lynching, but if that's a bad time for folks then we can sort of shift around the time we're trying to get majority votes in.
GSL Open Mini Mafia II
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
austinmcc
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Right? I guess we can run all the way up to the deadline before lynching, but if that's a bad time for folks then we can sort of shift around the time we're trying to get majority votes in. | ||
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Small mini, and we're going to have to work to keep things active and make sure everyone is involved. I don't think we need some kind of warning requirement before hammering, because everyone needs to be active and you shouldn't be waiting until you might or might not get hammered to speak up and make a defense or actually post. Everyone should be on notice from D1 that we're instant majority, just like you signed up for, and you need to actually participate. | ||
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On September 26 2012 11:29 strongandbig wrote: it's not a discussion starter. it's a gambit. find palmar's post on it. it only works if at least a few townies go along with it though. anyway austin all that stuff you said was reasonable but not helpful. what is your opinion on that statement. I know that post from iGrok's game. But it "working" is it generating discussion, you get people talking about the random lynch. It's kind of worn now though, and I don't even think it's a great thing to suggest when we're instant majority (voting system puts a lot of responsibility on some votes, random lynching removes all responsibility). I'd prefer that random lynching be put aside. If we want to talk setup, we could do something more productive, like see if we've got a time EVERYONE can be active. I'm usually on and semi-active from...8:30 EDT until about 5:00 EDT, unless busy at work. Active some evenings from about 5:30 EDT onwards, but can't promise to be around every night. Can everyone give a rough idea of the time they're usually most active in? If we don't have a time period that works for everyone, we're going to need to nail down how we want to deal with having ... almost effectively two (or more) towns that are active at different points. On September 26 2012 18:24 phagga wrote: The bolded part is a good setup for scum to hammer a townie without warning. Are you scum, austin? Nope. Moreover it's equally useful for a townie to hammer a scum without warning? A townie to hammer a townie? I don't know everyone's scum play here, but I'd imagine we have a few who blend in and try not to stick out. Hammering someone makes you stick out. Hammering someone with no warning whatsoever makes you stick out. If scum want to stick out and be visible, I don't have a problem with that. We've got 9 players. We've got a couple different timezones represented. We can't be waiting for someone to have hammer-1 votes and then ask them to pick things up at that point. The time zone thing is really going to affect our ability to build votes on players and find a time where the majority of thread could even be around to hear someone try and defend themselves. | ||
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On September 26 2012 17:23 Sinensis wrote: I've been thinking of Boxer as a mayor type role. Claiming Day 1 is bad cause then Boxer probably dies night 1 and ESPORTS along with it. It's better to save it for later in the game when we're in a pinch. Actually, I think this could be a nice point to get some discussion. Boxer claims. Need to go read GSL 1 to see how they played out that game if the setup rolled Boxer(s). Sinensis can you pin down "later" to something more specific and give your thought process on why you'd want later claims? | ||
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On September 26 2012 21:58 austinmcc wrote: Nope. Moreover it's equally useful for a townie to hammer a scum without warning? A townie to hammer a townie? I don't know everyone's scum play here, but I'd imagine we have a few who blend in and try not to stick out. Hammering someone makes you stick out. Hammering someone with no warning whatsoever makes you stick out. If scum want to stick out and be visible, I don't have a problem with that. Are you actually worried about scum hammering townies without warning? Do you think it likely that townies would hammer someone without warning? | ||
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On September 26 2012 23:10 Ottoxlol wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2012 22:27 phagga wrote: I don't see how discussing time zones or activity times is gonna bring us anywhere. just check the timezone of everyone and note it down, I'm even gonna help with you that (because I already made it for myself): 1) ShiaoPi (Taiwan) 2) Bluelightz (Indonesia) 3) iamperfection (US) 4) austinmcc (US) 5) strongandbig (US) 6) Ottoxlol (Unknown) 7) thrawn2112 (US) 8) Sinensis (US) 9) Phagga (Switzerland) Further discussing this topic only gives scum the possibility to appear active without contributing. I agree with Sinensis that Boxers should not claim early. Boxers claiming only gives good targets to scum (as Sinensis explained), gives scum more knowledge about the setup and gives town the amount of blues with powers, which is all bad. Town should not rely on blues to scum hunt anyway, so not knowing if there are any blues to help is preferable. I'm EU, but on somewhat closer to us sleeping schedule fyi. I think we should give reasonable time for discussion to flow before lynching, we have 72 hours, fast lynching mostly favors scum in the beginning imo. s&b, Why would scum freak out with random lynch? Sorry if I interpret random lynch in a different way, but that would give them a free pass to vote without any reasoning. austin: Why would a Boxer claim be any good for town atm? I don't think it would atm. I didn't advocate a D1 claim. It's not an IC role since there's no mod-confirmation, but I hope that if we've got a boxer it's not something that gets claimed only in case of mislynch. Depending on how our lynches go, there's some value to just claiming it D2 or D3 and giving us a little insight into the setup, a possible confirmed townie, etc. Before anyone says Boxer claims give scum insight into the setup, they already have way more than we do. They know whether or not they have an RB, so for scum, this setup is a random role between only TWO options (either the two RB options or the two non-RB options). Town has no knowledge like that at this point. | ||
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On September 27 2012 04:42 Sinensis wrote: SNIPPED This is the other post I got a red flag from and that's because I personally don't believe it's worth it for Boxer to claim D2 or D3 for no reason. Hypothetical situations if Boxer claims: The best that could happen is that we luckily have a medic, Boxer is safe, and there is no role blocker leaving us with a confirmed townie; there is a 33% chance of this outcome. The other possibility is that there isn't a medic and Boxer(s) are vulnerable; there is a 66% chance of this outcome. All things considered I think if Boxer is among us he needs to stay anonymous until he can save himself/someone else by claiming. I know I mentioned earlier this game having value in "confirmed townie," but the more I think about it, the less I like that and the less value I see in boxer claims at...any time? Is a boxer claim really going to save someone? It's the easiest fakeclaim in the world, "Guys I'm blue but can't do anything so there's no actions you can confirm." "Guys I know that other guy also claimed boxer, maybe we're in the 2-boxer setup." I guess we'll see how this plays out, but now the whole claiming boxer thing feels weaker at any point in time. It's essentially claiming "Guys I'm town" except with the potential to give town some info about the setup? You suggest that a claim would be best in the setup with a medic who can keep Boxer "safe." But do we care if a/the boxer(s) die, moreso than we care about a VT dying? | ||
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On September 28 2012 00:33 phagga wrote: @austinmc, you have only been talking setup so far. Any thoughts on iamps vote on thrawn? Any thoughts on other players? iamperfection's vote reads town to me. Not because of the reasoning behind it (drawing connections at this point is not particularly helpful, but doesn't really serve to do anything scummy either), but because it's time to start taking stances and getting votes out. If we're not getting a lot of discussion and action out of nowhere, then starting to drop votes may help push that along, which would be pro-town. On September 28 2012 00:26 Ottoxlol wrote: I am suspicious about SnB mainly because he still did not answer why would scum freak out at random lynch. Maybe I am wrong but I asked him to explain it to me: I see random lynch as an advantage of scum and he suggested it in the first place. I still feel the whole random lynch discussion "is dumb." People know the intent behind it now and, as explained in iGrok's mafia, it's really only a tool that you can use without explaining your intentions. The usefulness of the suggestion diminishes if people know that you're most likely suggesting a random lynch for discussion. That does a couple things for me. It makes me disagree with Ottox here, because answering why you support a random lynch undermines the suggestion's usefulness (if it has any). So I don't care that SnB didn't answer certain questions early. I disagree with SnB's statement that a random lynch suggestion might make scum nervous (it shouldn't be making anybody do anything right now, at least not on TL mafia), but that doesn't tell me about SnB's alignment. This post On September 27 2012 22:02 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't understand this one, its the same as SnB, you had 3 posts before this one, one is a question, the other 2 are excuses. How can you call out others on things you do as well? is my least favorite of the thread so far. How can you call out others on things you do as well? is a poor response. Thrawn already noted that On September 27 2012 22:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Just because something is hypocritical doesn't mean that it's invalid. But it's even more than that. Bluelightz just drops an FoS on Ottoxlol, and one on me as well. Ottoxlol's only complaint is that other people can be accused for the same reasoning. Which is fine, but absolutely not helpful. Other people doing the same thing gives us nothing. Why is that okay? Why aren't we ALL scummy for doing that same thing? Just because a bunch of people are sucking doesn't mean it isn't justified to call one or two people out on sucking. Bluelightz then votes Ottox, and we get this post: On September 28 2012 00:15 Ottoxlol wrote: A couple things here.+ Show Spoiler + On September 27 2012 23:56 Bluelightz wrote: Are you just dodging my question? Oh, ##Vote: Ottoxlol. Proper defense please. Did you answer to that post? No. Who is dodging what then? I don't feel like there have been anything to take a stance on, random lynch was stupid, there was talk about Boxers claiming that was stupid too. I don't think that the way is to pick someone at random (me) then start voting because I did not hunt scum/ post a lot, meanwhile SnB, Bluelight, iamperfection, SInensis, phagga or austin posted similar to me in quality and quantity. I don't see why is it ok to vote for someone because he's just asking questions and has nothing new to add in the beginning but if it is so please I ask it again, SnB and Bluelight why would you vote me over the others?
So, ##Vote: Ottoxlol If he's so concerned with why he's being voted instead of half of town, then he needs to separate himself from half of town. Instead, he's going to On September 28 2012 00:32 Ottoxlol wrote: I will wait for him to post, then we will see wait for SnB to post some answer. Waiting for an answer is a bad course of action, especially with our start so far. Waiting for an answer from ONE PERSON is a bad course of action. Ottox seems to be saying that if SnB gives a certain answer, he'll get a vote. If he gives another answer then...he won't? And Ottox is just fine to do nothing and wait until that happens. No good. | ||
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In terms of his actual filter, I find this curious: On September 27 2012 09:10 ShiaoPi wrote: Sinensis Also why did you call out austin for saying the random lynch idea is "stupid"? Iamperfection said it too, I did as well. So why do you FoS austin? Only for the Boxer thing? If so that would come down to personal belief as I think there would also be a time when a Boxer claim might be useful for town. Sinensis's response On September 27 2012 10:50 Sinensis wrote: This is what I said about austinmcc reguarding "Random lynch still dumb.": I don't know if I can explain myself any more clearly than that. The reason I didn't pressure you about it is because you did exactly what I did, you asked SnB to explain himself and he did. That made you look like you had a town agenda. But here's ShiaoPi's post about RNG lynch. On September 26 2012 22:52 ShiaoPi wrote: Well that was a quick read. Some thoughts in no particular order first: -random lynch is stupid. no need to discuss it imo ... Now some directed stuff: @SnB: Why did you suggest random lynch? I do not want to hear why Palmar does it in whatever other game he played. I am interested in your arguments. ... The rest of ShiaoPi's post there had nothing to do with his thoughts on RNG lynch. I don't care if Sinensis wants to call me out for saying random lynch is dumb and not explaining why I think so. But ShiaoPi's comment was "random lynch is stupid. no need to discuss it imo" and Sinensis thinks The reason I didn't pressure you about it is because you did exactly what I did, you asked SnB to explain himself and he did. If I'm FoSed for calling a random lynch dumb and shutting down discussion, I find it odd that ShiaoPi wouldn't be for doing the same thing. Yes, he asks SnB to give his own reasoning for supporting the lynch, but...there's still an explicit statement that the possibility of a random lynch doesn't need to be discussed and that it's "stupid." So Sinensis, two things. Do you have any thoughts on other players at this point? You've been really me-centric in most of your posts. If calling something dumb and shutting down discussion is scummy, what do you make of ShiaoPi's comments there? While he does seek answers from SnB, he also explicitly states that RNG lynch merits no discussion? | ||
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iamperfection, why should I vote for Thrawn over other players here? Why is he scummy, beyond him spouting off some association junk? Is doing that really more scummy than anything anyone else is doing? ShiaoPi, I'm interested in the answer to this: On September 27 2012 23:43 thrawn2112 wrote: You say there's not enough in my posts that are scum motivated for you to vote for me, so obviously you must think some things look scum motivated. What looks scummy? strongandbig, do you maek thinks on things? There's not much to go on, but I've got you as relatively townie so far. I just misread you under the same circumstances (low post count, general townie feel to posts), so I'd like to see some more thoughts from you. Can you give some more thoughts on Ottoxlol? Am I scummy for not posting a billion things? | ||
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On September 28 2012 04:42 Sinensis wrote: @Austinmcc: This is the second time I've posted this, I'm voting for you until I get a response. In my FoS post against you I pointed this out. This post implies you don't mind the last person to vote hammer voting. Most of us have expressed we are against this because all it does is cut discussion short. I am against it and I think your reasoning parallels "too scummy to be scum" logic. You still haven't responded to my criticism about this. ##Vote: Austinmcc SOMEONE is going to be the hammer vote. In every vote. It's going to happen. Being the hammer vote with no reasoning given is going to stick out and make you look quite bad. Maybe I have more faith in TL towns, but I'd assume at least SOME reasoning is going to be given with a vote. Giving no reason in a full-size majority extended lynch often raises eyebrows and is frowned upon. Giving no reason for a vote in a mini this small when you hammer someone would raise all eyebrows. So ... I'm not worried about people hammering with no reasoning. They're going to stick out. They're going to get scrutinized. Yes, it would cut discussion short. But I don't think anyone is realistically just going to pop in and drop a hammer vote with no reasoning. Maybe someone will prove me wrong about that. But until then, I'll have faith in my fellow townies and assume it's not going to happen. Why should I be worried, then, about hammer votes with no reasoning? No townie should be doing that, period. So it's the exact opposite of "too scummy to be scum." It's "hammer voting with no reasoning is so scummy you're scum." That's why I don't care if someone does it. Because anyone doing it is basically claiming scum, and everyone in both alignments should know that. | ||
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On September 28 2012 04:57 Sinensis wrote: So lets say someone hammer votes today with no explanation. Are you going to vote for them tomorrow? "hammer voting with no reasoning is so scummy you're scum" is hyperbole. But it's NOT a good indicator of towniness. It's more than enough reason to really scrutinize someone, and poke at them pretty hard. I'm still unconvinced that this is actually going to be a problem. Have faith. | ||
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On September 28 2012 05:03 Sinensis wrote: That was a yes or no question. Not a dodge with short answer and claim none of this matters question. Then no. So scummy you have to be scum is hyperbole, it's not guaranteed to garner a vote. | ||
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On September 28 2012 05:34 Ottoxlol wrote: So you see, then I wasnt entirely clear with my defense, its not about "why didnt you guys choose someone else, don't kill me", its more about TELL ME why did you choose me over the others. That is not a defense. That is you requesting that we give you more information. You may think you need that information in order to mount a defense (I don't know what I'm being accused of, so I can't respond), but that doesn't quite fit with "All these other people are doing the same thing/being scummy" because you're basically saying "We all look bad," which is absolutely not a defense...it's an admission that you don't look good followed by nothing to make you look good. Especially when you don't give any particulars and you're just content to summarily state that many others are acting similarly. The way in which you "defended" yourself a is a lot of what looks off about you, because you're just casting a little bit of doubt on most of the thread in what you're doing, rather than pointing out what you've done that's not scummy, or going and making a case on someone that you DO find scummy. Nor do any of the other people on the list seem to be waiting around for one player to comment on one thing so that they can do anything. | ||
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There'd be some outside random generator. Palmar, when actually suggesting this, had a site set up. Based on the time, it kicked out a name at random, iirc. Everyone could go to the site at x time, and whoever it picked at that time would be the lynch. Nobody had to report in anything special, you couldn't game the system by going to an RNG website and just roll 30 or 40 lynches and post a screenshot of whatever one you liked best. It was verifiable by everyone in the game because they could check the site at x time, but wasn't controlled by anyone in game, so you knew it was actually popping up a random name. On D1, as far as I can tell, scum usually can get themselves better odds on not getting lynched than pure chance gives. In that case, a random lynch is scary because they can't plan for out, can't get out from under it, and don't have any control over the situation. Town's just gonna kill someone and it's got a whatever out of whatever chance of being scum. I'll look over things again tomorrow morning and make sure, specifically check some other games of Ottox, but right now I don't think he's scum. Going to unvote for now, and will find a new target unless his past games give me a bad feeling. The entire lack of a defense and lack of any effort at actually putting one up doesn't feel scummy to me. Other thoughts on that? I've had that feeling all afternoon, but was hoping maybe there would be more action created, votes or unvotes, or other candidates filtering up. It didn't generate too much, but oh well. ##Unvote | ||
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On September 28 2012 07:50 strongandbig wrote: There's a higher chance that they get lynched that way on day 1 and if they get chosen their partners can't save them. It's an unexpected and unpredictable situation where they have to react quickly. On September 28 2012 08:34 Ottoxlol wrote: @SnB then I don't understand random lynch at all. I thought it is like we go to a random website roll 1-8 then put our votes in-> ofc scum wont do it properly so there is much less chance to lynch them On September 28 2012 10:58 Ottoxlol wrote: As you can see I am already concerned with that I am not sure if I understand random lynch and that I don't like it if its the way I think it is. This was my 5th post. | ||
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On June 11 2012 04:09 Palmar wrote: Anyway, I've thrown the site up, http://palmar.org/mafia/random.txt it's not set to autorefresh, so to get the latest result you need to refresh the page. Every minute crontab will run this script: cat /var/www/mafia/playerlist.txt | sort -R | cut -f2- > /var/www/mafia/random.txt And that's the result you're seeing on the page. Now just screenshot at random pre-determined time, and voila. | ||
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On September 28 2012 12:01 Bluelightz wrote: austin, would you kindly respond to my accusation? Sure. On September 28 2012 00:42 Bluelightz wrote: My stance for today: austinmcc, because his post's are about hammering/setup, and only about hammering/setup, he hasn't attempted any scum-hunting at all, which is scummy because discussing about hammer/setup brings us no closer to victory. As well as, in his most recent game - Rockband Mini Mafia - he atleast already had suspicions on someone, not like here, when it's already 48 hours and more into the game. ##Vote: austinmcc This bit? I know I was also FoSed in a post with ottox and I, but it seemed like that was for mostly the same reasoning. I don't take issue with what you're saying. Like...I can't refute that I was not doing other things. Nor did any of that discussion end up as a jumping off point to any activity. Rockband and this have been different games. There we had early movement and activity, gave me lots to look through. Here not so much. I've been poking around some today, and will be tomorrow. It's up to you to determine whether you find it scummy that I've been more active recently or not (I would suggest a town read, but ymmv). | ||
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On September 28 2012 12:16 thrawn2112 wrote: if you're still up please say who you do prefer as a vote, we're pretty damn close to deadline already Off the top of my head, nobody's sticking out as someone I really want to vote. I'd like to see ShiaoPi answer the questions the were addressed to him a while back, as well as give his thoughts on Ottox. I want to look over you and phagga again. Ottox's defense was so not-a-defense that it felt townie to me. Again, I'd actually like to know what people think about his play after getting a vote(s) and how they read it. Phagga voted shortly after myself, but you came in after a while. I don't like you voting even though you yourself thought it was more of deflection than defense. I actually really don't think I like that, you get a close read! | ||
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Try and throw out his other posts and other reads, just look at that in the context of where the thread is (Votes on Ottox, cases on Ottox, etc.) | ||
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Rereading all and I'll get some posts up. That timezone bit that you don't like I'm more null on. It's true that a bunch of timezone discussion won't really do anything, and the more I look back at it, the more that's not a point that could really start any discussion (which I was hoping it would). Timezones are just facts and it's not like scum was going to come out arguing that we should never find a common time to discuss things, so it wasn't going to filter out alignments at all. I kind of like his calling me out on the timezone bit being useless. | ||
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What is your current read of Thrawn? What has led you to that read? Additionally, how do you read his vote on Ottox? | ||
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On September 28 2012 11:08 Sinensis wrote: Because his defense was "everyone else is playing bad, not just me." He feels if he is in the spotlight and being voted for, than anyone could be because his town play is at least as good as everyone else's; so he believes. This is a bad defense by him and he needs to do better, maybe not take personal offense when someone points out one of his mistakes. I understand why he was critical of your play SnB, you freaked him out with your rng suggestion, but I don't really understand why he voted for thrawn other than that thrawn is playing more aggressive than he is. Sinensis can you explain this a little further. It was an odd comment. Did you find his defense/believing he was being unfairly voted for townie? Scummy? How did it make you read his attackers? Do you think he actually took "personal offense"? If so, where? | ||
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His inactivity is generally null for a game that's early and hasn't been inactive, but I don't love that he's constantly sniping about the game being slow and then not really trying to do anything about that. + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2012 15:28 phagga wrote: Wow, 9 hours into the game and we don't even have 2 pages. I am against a random lynch because in an instant majority game it might shortcut the discussion and therefore won't be helpfull. Also, there is the trust issue. Sinensis, why dont you want the Boxers to claim? Also, where is Bluelightz? 4am has long past. On September 26 2012 17:38 phagga wrote: Don't be shy. If you're townie, there is nothing to fear. Just try not to clutter up the thread. We are off to a really slow start, something that can generate usefull discussion is always welcome. On September 26 2012 23:01 phagga wrote: I wrote pregame I would be inactive the first 9 hours due to sleep, which is pretty much how long I was inactive. I frequently point out people who are not active, you can find this in any of my older games. It's a habit I have developed to make people aware that someone has been inactive for a longer time. I also like it as a reminder when scumhunting to see if the person has had several periods of long inactivity and what that could mean in the context of the game/thread. On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Game is slow. Game is slow we need something to create discussion. I watch for inactives and point them out. Gets on Thrawn's case for not contributing. In all of that, phagga isn't doing an awful lot himself. I shared his feeligns that we needed something to create discussion, but had no idea how to get that started, so I can't really fault him for those posts. However, I don't actually see him hounding inactive players. I don't actually see him attempting to do too much. I hate this post: On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. We know phagga wants discussion. Wants the game to move. He's speaking with Bluelightz, who posts this: On September 28 2012 01:26 Bluelightz wrote: So, EVERYTHING Thrawn did is an action that supposedly makes him townier? and that was phagga's response. Effectively, phagga is just shutting down the chat with Bluelightz. I'm only speaking generally. I agree that thrawn isn't scummy, but I don't like your reason. I won't tell you WHY i don't like your reason. I won't explain MY reasons. I won't keep the analysis of Thrawn going at all. Just give some general statements and not offer my own specific thoughts. Phagga's unvote on Ottox ... doesn't do wonders for me either way. The reasoning behind his original vote was something I didn't express well but also didn't like. The unvote comes a looooooooong time after Ottox has started to look very town. And it doesn't come with anything else. No desire to seek another target, no nothing after that. Just "Okay, no Ottoxvote." | ||
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I'd really like to hear him explain how he feels about thrawn after he didn't do so earlier. | ||
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Thrawn On September 26 2012 23:04 thrawn2112 wrote: If someone hammers another player without warning then what is a legitimate response? What reasonable punishment could you put in place to stop people from doing it? I say it's not too big of a deal. If someone hammers a player then we can speculate as to the legitimacy of their motivations. minor town points. agree with it being not too big a deal. others may find this scummy though, since my comments were found scummy by some. On September 27 2012 21:40 thrawn2112 wrote: "just making a note of it" Wanna say anything further than that? null but I found it...interesting? that he keeps harping on this comment. Is it scum trying to figure out why Sinensis is making note of his play? Is it scum worried that Sinensis is onto thrawn/phagga distancing themselves? Or does he just feel that Sinensis is basically saying nothing, because making a note of something that happened is what everyone should be doing with everything that happens here. No read built off this post, but ... I made a note of it (sunglasses). On September 27 2012 23:43 thrawn2112 wrote: You say there's not enough in my posts that are scum motivated for you to vote for me, so obviously you must think some things look scum motivated. What looks scummy? again we have concerns over someone finding him scummy maybe. Again, it's not like you can build a read out of it. On September 28 2012 06:46 thrawn2112 wrote: ##Vote Ottoxlol Alright otto that is 3 votes against you. You've been accused of giving a bad defense and it was, it was more of a deflection than a defense. You've also been accused of not giving your full read on snb earlier and that was also true. So if snb is your top scumread can you give all the reasons why, and if he's not your top read / you're just waiting on his response or whatever, then who else looks scummy and why? This is where things start to turn on me with Thrawn. Drops a nice vote in the middle of the pack. Drops it a ways into Ottox's "defense." To me, Ottox feels pretty darn towny at this point because of the way he's just...not been defending himself and not being worried at all. But Thrawn votes here with very little reasoning, and absolutely no discussion of why Ottox is scummy. Look at his comments:
Where is the reason for the VOTE? Where is the reason Ottox is SCUMMY? X not giving a full read on Y isn't a reason to vote for X. Ottox's odd defense was one of the most towny things out there the more it continued, so why is Thrawn harping on that as well, and is that his reason for voting? BOO AT THIS VOTE. BOO AT THIS POST. Looks to me like joining a lynch in the middle with no real reasoning, just pushing a mislynch. Thrawn CONTINUES to harp at ottox after this. The whole exchange feels stupid, because again, I've got Ottox looking very towny in how he's responding to pressure. But thrawn keeps pumping him. Look at page 9 of the game, too many little posts to link here. So at this point, here's what I'm seeing.
After that, Ottox comes back with a vote on Thrawn. I'm more mixed here: Specifically, look at Ottox's vote post where he votes Thrawn and Thrawn's response. Those I'll include here. On September 28 2012 08:34 Ottoxlol wrote: @SnB then I don't understand random lynch at all. I thought it is like we go to a random website roll 1-8 then put our votes in-> ofc scum wont do it properly so there is much less chance to lynch them My case on thrawn: His response: I gave my full read on SnB, explained why I did not vote at the moment, the first bolded part is where he lies about it, the second and third he wrote in the same post! Don't let him get away with this please ##Vote thrawn2112 I don't see thrawn lying really, I don't think Ottox did a great job of laying out a clear read on SnB, but I also don't see why thrawn is hounding him about it. Thrawn ... hmmm. I can't tell if he's really fighting the vote or not. If he's actually getting worked up about Ottox's vote, then I see that as scummy, because the vote and reasoning feel weak, and a strong response to a weak vote makes me think scum is worried about picking up random votes. I'd like outside thoughts here, concerning Thrawn's reaction to Ottox's vote: On September 28 2012 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote: ottoxlol: You say I lied, with the lie being that I said you wouldn't give your full read on snb. Yes you have given your read, but the question originally proposed to you was about where your vote was going to go, and you specifically declined answering that question. Whether or not you want to vote for snb is a very big part of what I look at when trying to determine how genuine your read on snb is. So your original problems with snb's suggestion were that you couldn't see how it could be fairly done as far as actual logistics goes? You didn't say anything like that at all when you said you first said you didn't like the idea. On September 28 2012 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote: otto you keep saying that I'm lying and you're acting like you have no clue why my accusations are being made, and I think whether you're town or mafia you actually do know why. I feel like most of your defenses thus far have been deflections or omgusing Initially it struck me as a strong response. On reread it doesn't really. On September 28 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote: There's a distinction between making a bad defense and making a bad defense by deflecting... I'd say deflecting is scummy. And sorry I dont know what you mean by "close read." This post bugs me for the same reason...phagga's post about thrawn not looking scummy bugged me. He gives a conclusion, but no real reasoning, and it doesn't necessarily match up with earlier statements. I mention that I dislike thrawn's votepost. I mention that I dislike the deflection/defense big seemingly being the reason for a vote (I didn't realize how little reasoning there was the vote last night off the top of my head Thrawn's response is that There's a distinction between making a bad defense and making a bad defense by deflecting... I'd say deflecting is scummy. Sinensis, in his vote post, gave a longer explanation of why deflecting can be scummy. Thrawn gives none. He doesn't note that he never called it scummy in his vote post. He doesn't explain why it's scummy. He doesn't explain what the distinction IS between a bad defense and deflecting. | ||
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On September 29 2012 01:52 ShiaoPi wrote: @phagga: + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken. Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself. But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Looks like pounding on thrawn to me. Also regarding ottox, you mention him as bluelightz starts pressuring him. Sleepy as fuck now, so I am off to bed. I would really like you guys to considerate a lynch on phagga, but if you do not like to do it, at least hammer someone, no lynch would be just awful. night! You guys may not like association talk, but I'll note that if thrawn flips scum then Phagga is my #1 read. Sinensis picked up on their banter before, phagga's townread on thrawn with no reasoning felt off to me, and then he drops in with a case once thrawn starts to be a pretty clear favorite (although so did 1/3 of the game). My gut just lumps those two together as scum, although I guess we'll see what thrawn flips. | ||
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On September 29 2012 01:42 austinmcc wrote: snb, could you give some thoughts on phagga? thrawn, when you return, could you please give your thoughts on phagga amongst whatever else you cover? | ||
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iamperfection, two questions. (1) Have you played any games as scum, and if so, which (I'm so lazy)? (2) How do you read shiaopi right now, or...general thoughts on shiaopi? (I'll note that thrawn has not played any scum games, went back to look but he's always rolled town). On September 28 2012 23:03 Bluelightz wrote: I meant that, from a scum perspective, yes scum would defend his or herself, but not in the way he is defending: being active and open. thrawn continues to propose alternative lynches, which in a way provide information to the discussion, and continues to defend himself actively. Also, I don't think all his defenses/alternative lynch proposals are from collaborations (with scumbuddies), but independent work. Given everything that's been written about thrawn in the last couple pages, could you look over them and give like...the 2 points on thrawn you agree with most and the 2 you disagree with most? | ||
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Could you discuss your earlier read on thrawn, before your last two large posts on him? I see: On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote: So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Which seems to be negative (echoing others, not contributing) On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote: Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken. Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself. But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? posts "don't improve" --> implying they're bad or scummy? Accusing thrawn of "contradicting himself" On September 28 2012 00:33 phagga wrote: @thrawn, the problem with your analysis of a possible connection of sinensis and s&b is that you are making a lot of assumptions. It's not wrong to do that, but it's just quite a stretch because we do not have that much info available yet. This post doesn't really point towards a scummy OR a town read. Those posts seem to indicate that you're viewing thrawn in a scummy light, or at the very least that you have no reason to view him in a townie light, since you've been critical of his play. But then when Bluelightz advocates not lynching thrawn, you state this: On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. Why did you not find thrawn scummy? What happened exactly that made you go from thrawn not looking scummy to you basically writing a case on him and threatening a vote? | ||
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On September 29 2012 04:46 phagga wrote: I really don't see the logic behind all of this. What you are saying is that scum is already so desperate that they are not simply bussing each other, but even calling the deciding vote! And this in a game where it is absolutely unnecessary to do something like this on D1 because of the instant majority? I'm not saying its impossible, but that would be a really desperate plan and should at least seem unlikely. Also, I never had a townread on thrawn. I said that I don't think he is scummy. Stop making up facts. Do you think my points I raise on thrawn are bad? if so, tell me why. What I'm saying is that you seem quite focused on thrawn at points - + Show Spoiler + On September 26 2012 17:38 phagga wrote: Don't be shy. If you're townie, there is nothing to fear. Just try not to clutter up the thread. We are off to a really slow start, something that can generate usefull discussion is always welcome. Coaching thrawn early on On September 28 2012 00:33 phagga wrote: @thrawn, the problem with your analysis of a possible connection of sinensis and s&b is that you are making a lot of assumptions. It's not wrong to do that, but it's just quite a stretch because we do not have that much info available yet. Mild coaching later on, in the middle of a larger post where you've got questions or reads on other players, but just offer thrawn what feels like a little advice. "it's not wrong to do that" implies some coaching. On September 28 2012 01:36 phagga wrote: Eh, no? I was talking generally, not about thrawn specifically. I agree that thrawn does not look scummy, i just think the reason you gave is bad. Oh no, I wasn't talking about thrawn. But since you bring him up, vague thought with no reasoning given. On September 29 2012 01:31 phagga wrote: ?? Austin has not voted thrawn? Can you please point out the post? Watching for votes on thrawn (Probably nothing, because everyone should have checked this, but I've seen scum get partially-caught because they were hyper-aware of votes on each other) I'm not accusing you of bussing him all game, I'm saying that there are some interactions between the two of you (Sinensis noticed) that make me go "Hmmmm." Nobody should get magical credit for being the deciding vote here, or making a case this late. It seems pretty clear that one of you is getting lynched, probably him, and it's not like I'm not happy to drop the hammer on him if you don't. I just don't go "I'm about to vote thrawn guys, I'm about to do it" to make sure everyone knows I'm happy voting thrawn. It would be unlikely if out of the blue you chose thrawn to start attacking, tunneling, and driving a lynch on, and the two of you ended up scumbuddies. It wouldn't be be nearly as surprising if you're under a little heat, he's under heat, and you decide you need to vote him and draw up a case on him so you can get try and look a little better. | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:01 thrawn2112 wrote: Alright, I've just been able to read the last few pages of the thread and there are several huge walls of text about me. I don't think I'm gogin to be able to respond to them all adequately before I get hammered so I'm just going to give some quick reads for yall to look over after my flip. So I'm being mislynched which causes me to be suspicious of each of the people who have voted/talked about me. For iamp, his original vote was not based on very much and I have know way of knowing how honestly he felt about that first vote. Otto's vote I am not suspicious of,thinking about it now I think it's likely his vote came as a result of the two of us getting into a heated argument and not really feeling that the other person was listening to the argumentts we presented. Sinensis I am still suspicious of. Overall I've had a scummy read on him for a lot of the game and I don't even think he cared what I was saying in my defense, he was just brushing it aside. for phagga, he has been off my radar for a lot of the game other than our argument early on and his vote seemed to be a little out of the blue and it was at a perfect time for mafia to start putting pressure on their mislynch bandwagon. Also there is bl, who has sorta been defending me all game but not really going into too much detail about what exactly I've posted so I also think you should look at him. glhf No suspicions on me? If phagga has been off your radar much of the game, could you give him a quick peek and a more robust read? For time's sake, cases on phagga can be found: here for Bluelightz, here for ShiaoPi | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:10 thrawn2112 wrote: which of the walls of text shall I respond to? who is still in the thread? rawr | ||
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##Vote: phagga Thrawn, see above. Why no suspicions on me, when I also wrote a case on you and expressed interest in voting you? Also, give phagga a look over, and try and get some thoughts on him out. I heard he's got 3 votes now and you haven't voted. The suspense. The intrigue. Who will be lynched!? | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:15 thrawn2112 wrote: so there's no way sinensis is getting lynched? ##Unvote Not today. | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:20 phagga wrote: nice game that's going on here... austinmcc, are you pressuring thrawn into voting me? I'm legitimately interested in his read on you. | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:46 Blazinghand wrote: Vote Count! Thrawn2112 (4) - iamperfection, Ottoxlol, Sinesis, strongandbig Phagga (4) - ShiaoPi, Bluelightz, austinmcc, Thrawn2112 Not Voting (1) -Phagga With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends in 14 minutes on Friday, Sep 28 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 21:00 GMT (+00:00) Anyone that's not one of us three fine fellow OR BLAZINGHAND around? | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:48 thrawn2112 wrote: if anyone has a question for me please hurry up and ask You said you were suspicious of everyone voting for you. Can you narrow that down to a most scummy person out of that group? | ||
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(1) How do I know you're not actually BH? (2) It's too close to deadline. Was going to try and drum up some discussion about phagga and thrawn with people who aren't phagga and thrawn, but we can do that over N1. | ||
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On September 29 2012 05:56 iamperfection wrote: 5 min is a liftetime austin. Thoughts on phagga? Those would be the pressing ones. Followed by: On September 29 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote: iamperfection, two questions. (1) Have you played any games as scum, and if so, which (I'm so lazy)? (2) How do you read shiaopi right now, or...general thoughts on shiaopi? | ||
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Was this actually to phagga, or was it to me? On September 29 2012 11:54 iamperfection wrote: phagga can you please explain your thinking in detail towards the end there especially at this juncture. | ||
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On September 29 2012 22:14 Ottoxlol wrote: @austin Then why didnt you unvote me? This post feels like you really don't care about it, but if we did you can point to this post later. Also I feel like your vote on phagga stood out from everyone else's, I just can't grasp it what decided that you won't lynch thrawn, you had both pinned as scummy but as far as your posts go I see you having more problems with thrawn then phagga. Could you tell me what made you decide that phagga is the better vote? And why didnt you push for phagga? As to the first, here's what I wrote: On September 28 2012 11:43 austinmcc wrote: Basically, I found the way you reacted to votes to be townie. I need to look over it again because now you're kind of in my blind spot after I label you town in my head, but that's where you are. However, we needed SOMETHING to galvanize discussion. Votes on you, getting you close to lynch but not lynched, was something that I hoped to provide that. Anything would have been helpful, maybe picking out one of the later votes on you as scum (I thought thrawn's vote fit the bill) or seeing someone argue that you were town (Sinensis had that weird "unfairly voted for" line). Just figured that the longer someone was close to lynch, the more discussion we could generate.I'll look over things again tomorrow morning and make sure, specifically check some other games of Ottox, but right now I don't think he's scum. Going to unvote for now, and will find a new target unless his past games give me a bad feeling. The entire lack of a defense and lack of any effort at actually putting one up doesn't feel scummy to me. Other thoughts on that? I've had that feeling all afternoon, but was hoping maybe there would be more action created, votes or unvotes, or other candidates filtering up. It didn't generate too much, but oh well. ##Unvote So I didn't want you lynched, but I wanted something to be actively happening in the thread, and having someone close to the chopping block was what we had. Therefore, I didn't want to unvote and weaken the only action going on in thread, but I didn't want you to actually get lynched. You're correct about me wanting to lynch Thrawn. If phagga wasn't going to vote him then I was. I liked both for scum and so, again, figured maybe something would shake out if both got close in the voting and we could get pressure on them. But I didn't want to lynch him right away since he'd been gone so much of the time he had lots of votes and we basically had no information from him for much of the day. Voting phagga and getting pressure on phagga in addition to Thrawn seemed like the most useful thing to do with my vote if I wasn't going to hammer Thrawn early. If anyone had come in thread and moved a vote from Thrawn to phagga, I would have happily entertained that lynch as well, so I felt fine having my vote on non-Thrawn since either lynch was good imo. | ||
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On September 30 2012 00:01 Ottoxlol wrote: @austin However despite your efforts(?) not too much of a discussion emerged even though iamperfection was in the thread. You voted at .15, then waited half an hour, asked if anyone around at .45, then when iamp .52 posted that was too late for discussion for you, when he replied that its still a plenty of time you had a question for him at 57 (moments before the lynch). If your main priority was to stir up the thread a bit why wait so long? Also why not make a nice case on him that you can point to, instead of just asking "what do you think about phagga"? I feel somehow the same with the thing in my previous post about unvoting me, you seem to put a lot of effort into the game but doesnt care at all about who we lynch. I didn't care much about who we lynched yesterday between those two. I posted a little on phagga earlier in the day, but no, no big case. ShiaoPi and Bluelightz covered a lot of his play, I gave my thoughts on Shiao's case and then had some questions for phagga late. | ||
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Ottoxlol - Because of his response to pressure, although we need to make sure that not to just write him off as town and never scrutinize him. ShiaoPi - I can see where a lot of his questions are coming from, but I wish he'd get more completed thoughts into the thread. At some points shiao is very vague - phagga has kind of weakened my suspicions on him a bit, but I am still uncertain about him. but he calls attention to that and has not been so throughout the game. Also not entirely sure that scum would suggest a new lynch target in phagga when votes were coming so slowly and could have mislynched thrawn yesterday. That bit is entirely speculative and not worth much.Sinensis and iamperfection are also on my watchlist. For different reasons though. Sinensis has some stuff that has been pointed out already and I am too tired right now to dig up the other things. Iamperfection deserves some closer inspection for being around quite often but not doing that much, also he started the thrawn mislynch with pretty weak reasoning. Bluelightz - I don't know bluelightz play well. Will have to look it over if I survive. He tossed out a decent number of reads during the day (Initially ottox and I were scum, then Sinensis/phagga) and gave occasional other thoughts. However, especially on the sinensis/phagga reads, it feels like he just gives very cursory explanations. Whereas his thoughts on Ottox and I were spelled out a little more, then second set feels a little weaker, and I'm unsure what to make of that. strongandbig - Right now, when I think of snb, I think of this post: Sinensis's weird offhand remark about ottox was something that looked weird, and I like that snb seemed to pick that up. But he never gave ANY thoughts on it. He just asks sinensis to elaborate, says it's "important," but doesn't say anything about that comment himself and never returns to it. A lot of the rest of his filter is just nothing or tiny bits on the random lynch, which says nothing about alignment. I still want to hear more from snb regarding sinensis's comment and elaboration. Sinensis - Look at his D1. Early on, pretty active. Very critical of me, hounding me somewhat, seems interested and has a read and is pushing it. Later in the day though, there are lots of little things that concern me: this post - + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 05:29 Sinensis wrote: Look at how wishy washy his READ on Ottox is despite all these strong statements. I think Ottoxlol believes he's being unfairly voted for. I'm null on him. I think the worst thing he's done is instead of formulating a proper defense (against something that really didn't need defending against), he tried to shift the blame onto others...BUT he wasn't trying to shift the blame onto 1 or 2 other people, he was trying to shift the blame back onto everyone. That's why I think he just believes he's being treated unfairly and is just lashing out at everyone else. This doesn't strike me as scummy so much as just bad town play. Aside from that all he's done is be critical of SnB's play. Which I understand because SnB has been posting weird stuff this game. First there was the random lynch suggestion. He posted this too: I've said a lot already about why VTs shouldn't be fake claiming. Was SnB fishing for people to agree with him or is he suggesting something that benefits mafia on purpose? ANYWAY I just think Ottoxlol is understandably concerned with SnB's play, and I think in the future Ottoxlol should start making proper defenses instead of blaming everyone else. "I think Ottoxlol believes he is being unfairly voted for" "The worst thing he's done is x, x doesn't strike me as scummy so much as bad town play" "The only other thing he's done is be critical of SnB's play. Which I understand..." To me, those ALL look like they should generate a town read, at least when taken together. But Sinensis is null. And that "unfairly voted for" bit still just feels...it's weird. It's a weird conclusion to pull out. On September 28 2012 13:14 Sinensis wrote: @Thrawn2112: I accuse you of only going after other people in order to direct attention away from yourself, and I accuse you of picking easy targets. Also, I accuse you of trying to disrupt communication between other players. You're quick to nit pick every post we make but you rarely follow through with your nit picking. What do you have to say about that? On September 28 2012 13:34 Sinensis wrote: I am accusing you of sabotaging meaningful discussion by nit picking everyone's posts. I think you're doing this because people are voting for you and you're looking for ANYTHING that will get the spotlight off you. The problem isn't with 1 or 2 of your posts, it's most of them. How would you like me to be more specific? On September 28 2012 14:05 Sinensis wrote: That's not a response, that's a bunch of semi sarcastic questions; half of which you answered yourself. No thanks. ##Vote: Thrawn2112 I'm keeping my vote here for now. I'd like to see what everyone else thinks too. Note his vote post. He wants to see what everyone else thinks. But he never does. He doesn't talk with ANYONE in the thread really after voting thrawn. See: On September 28 2012 16:19 Sinensis wrote: What is that, 1000 words plus later and you STILL haven't disagreed with my accusations? ALL you have done is shift blame to me. My vote is in the right place. On September 28 2012 19:17 Sinensis wrote: @ShiaoPi: My case against austinmcc was kind of weak, but there had only been 3 pages of discussion up till that point and I wanted to get my initial thoughts out into the open because I thought they would be relevant. I even said when I voted him that I was only voting him till he responded, and we had a whole dialog that you're welcome to go back and read. The thread was dead so I decided to pursue what initial reads I had. I have since changed my focus to Thrawn2112. I believe his incessant nitpicking of everyone's posts has been an effort to deflect attention from himself. I am not implying it is scummy to defend one's self, I am implying it is scummy to deflect blame. I have serious issues with his play. Look at his posts. "I want to see what everyone else thinks." But what does he do after voting and making that comment? He responds to an SnB question and a ShiaoPi question (So we know he's reading thread at those 2 points, but not commenting on anything else or doing anything or trying to push his thrawn read/be at all involved in the thrawn lynch). I don't like how he's on me, then on thrawn, then just detached. Why does his play change? Why does he not push thrawn, or comment on any other thrawn case? Phagga - Giving a cursory read here, see comments yesterday. ShiaoPi and Bluelightz have some good points. Blah blah. Interesting, but not necessarily scummy, is his response to iamperfection's deadline question during the night. iamperfection asks for phagga's thinking in detail towards the end of the day, especially when I'm asking about him with 5 minutes to go. What does phagga post? This enormous wall of text discussing his read throughout the entire day, his thought process on all sorts of people, concerns about a no lynch, etc. It felt kind of out of place, like he was asked the question, but was worried about being scrutinized and voted for, so he responded to a bunch of questions or concerns that weren't being raised. iamperfection - Look at his filter. It's chock full of one liners, of single questions that he never follows up on. Needs to be compared against past play, but there are SO MANY one liners and dangling questions. There are very few full, original thoughts. His thrawn vote was...I guess people vote sometimes of single things they find scummy, but it felt like something that a townie would do in a rush, then later change his vote or explain his vote further. I overreacted, found that thing you did scummy, but this other guy is entirely scummy OR I overreacted and voted you for x, but then I went through your filter and, you know what, I like my vote because of x, y, z. He just NEVER gives much out in the way of thoughts, never follows up the questions he asks, I really don't love this filter. D2 my strongest candidates right now would be imperfection and sinensis I think, as odd as that sounds given my concerns about phagga yesterday and my vote on him. I need to look him back over a little closer with thrawn green, but I don't have a town read, just...iamperfection and sinensis's filters don't look great. Most of my reads are WEAK this game though because there's so little to go on. If I die, please consider these thoughts. If I die, MAKE SURE that the following things get repeatedly brought up, explained, scrutinized, whatever:
If I'm not around tomorrow, there should be some contribution exercises. Everyone should list 3 people they find scummy. Seen Chezinu do that in a few threads and it seems like a good way to get some reads out and to make everyone THINK and to make everyone do so without tunneling a single player. Game is so small that there's no need to tunnel hard, everyone can read the entire thread and everyone should be noticing things out of the corner of their eyes. Something like...top 3 people you find scummy, one post that you find VERY TOWNIE from anyone, one post that you find VERY SCUMMY from anyone, and reasons why. We have 72-hour days. Someone should enforce this, really make it happen. It sounds dumb, you may think it's dumb, but we really need participation from all corners. | ||
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Sinensis and SnB with NOTHING overnight. | ||
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gg town I guess. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
NONE of us can complain about inactivity, because we all blew goats. It doesn't matter how many pages of filter anyone had because we sucked donkey dicks and even trying to get active late doesn't make up for such a bad start. We need that activity early. Also apparently I like farm animal genitalia. Sorry town for not trying to push things more D1, I got stuck with the thought that I needed to survive and then didn't realize I was being dumb until too late. That said, I just want to point this out - + Show Spoiler + Sinensis - Look at his D1. Early on, pretty active. Very critical of me, hounding me somewhat, seems interested and has a read and is pushing it. Later in the day though, there are lots of little things that concern me: this post - + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 05:29 Sinensis wrote: Look at how wishy washy his READ on Ottox is despite all these strong statements. I think Ottoxlol believes he's being unfairly voted for. I'm null on him. I think the worst thing he's done is instead of formulating a proper defense (against something that really didn't need defending against), he tried to shift the blame onto others...BUT he wasn't trying to shift the blame onto 1 or 2 other people, he was trying to shift the blame back onto everyone. That's why I think he just believes he's being treated unfairly and is just lashing out at everyone else. This doesn't strike me as scummy so much as just bad town play. Aside from that all he's done is be critical of SnB's play. Which I understand because SnB has been posting weird stuff this game. First there was the random lynch suggestion. He posted this too: I've said a lot already about why VTs shouldn't be fake claiming. Was SnB fishing for people to agree with him or is he suggesting something that benefits mafia on purpose? ANYWAY I just think Ottoxlol is understandably concerned with SnB's play, and I think in the future Ottoxlol should start making proper defenses instead of blaming everyone else. "I think Ottoxlol believes he is being unfairly voted for" "The worst thing he's done is x, x doesn't strike me as scummy so much as bad town play" "The only other thing he's done is be critical of SnB's play. Which I understand..." To me, those ALL look like they should generate a town read, at least when taken together. But Sinensis is null. And that "unfairly voted for" bit still just feels...it's weird. It's a weird conclusion to pull out. On September 28 2012 13:14 Sinensis wrote: @Thrawn2112: I accuse you of only going after other people in order to direct attention away from yourself, and I accuse you of picking easy targets. Also, I accuse you of trying to disrupt communication between other players. You're quick to nit pick every post we make but you rarely follow through with your nit picking. What do you have to say about that? On September 28 2012 13:34 Sinensis wrote: I am accusing you of sabotaging meaningful discussion by nit picking everyone's posts. I think you're doing this because people are voting for you and you're looking for ANYTHING that will get the spotlight off you. The problem isn't with 1 or 2 of your posts, it's most of them. How would you like me to be more specific? On September 28 2012 14:05 Sinensis wrote: That's not a response, that's a bunch of semi sarcastic questions; half of which you answered yourself. No thanks. ##Vote: Thrawn2112 I'm keeping my vote here for now. I'd like to see what everyone else thinks too. Note his vote post. He wants to see what everyone else thinks. But he never does. He doesn't talk with ANYONE in the thread really after voting thrawn. See: On September 28 2012 16:19 Sinensis wrote: What is that, 1000 words plus later and you STILL haven't disagreed with my accusations? ALL you have done is shift blame to me. My vote is in the right place. On September 28 2012 19:17 Sinensis wrote: @ShiaoPi: My case against austinmcc was kind of weak, but there had only been 3 pages of discussion up till that point and I wanted to get my initial thoughts out into the open because I thought they would be relevant. I even said when I voted him that I was only voting him till he responded, and we had a whole dialog that you're welcome to go back and read. The thread was dead so I decided to pursue what initial reads I had. I have since changed my focus to Thrawn2112. I believe his incessant nitpicking of everyone's posts has been an effort to deflect attention from himself. I am not implying it is scummy to defend one's self, I am implying it is scummy to deflect blame. I have serious issues with his play. Look at his posts. "I want to see what everyone else thinks." But what does he do after voting and making that comment? He responds to an SnB question and a ShiaoPi question (So we know he's reading thread at those 2 points, but not commenting on anything else or doing anything or trying to push his thrawn read/be at all involved in the thrawn lynch). I don't like how he's on me, then on thrawn, then just detached. Why does his play change? Why does he not push thrawn, or comment on any other thrawn case? Phagga - Giving a cursory read here, see comments yesterday. ShiaoPi and Bluelightz have some good points. Blah blah. Interesting, but not necessarily scummy, is his response to iamperfection's deadline question during the night. iamperfection asks for phagga's thinking in detail towards the end of the day, especially when I'm asking about him with 5 minutes to go. What does phagga post? This enormous wall of text discussing his read throughout the entire day, his thought process on all sorts of people, concerns about a no lynch, etc. It felt kind of out of place, like he was asked the question, but was worried about being scrutinized and voted for, so he responded to a bunch of questions or concerns that weren't being raised. iamperfection - Look at his filter. It's chock full of one liners, of single questions that he never follows up on. Needs to be compared against past play, but there are SO MANY one liners and dangling questions. There are very few full, original thoughts. His thrawn vote was...I guess people vote sometimes of single things they find scummy, but it felt like something that a townie would do in a rush, then later change his vote or explain his vote further. I overreacted, found that thing you did scummy, but this other guy is entirely scummy OR I overreacted and voted you for x, but then I went through your filter and, you know what, I like my vote because of x, y, z. He just NEVER gives much out in the way of thoughts, never follows up the questions he asks, I really don't love this filter. D2 my strongest candidates right now would be imperfection and sinensis I think, as odd as that sounds given my concerns about phagga yesterday and my vote on him. I need to look him back over a little closer with thrawn green, but I don't have a town read, just...iamperfection and sinensis's filters don't look great. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2012 02:01 Hapahauli wrote: The idea of the 72-hour deadline was to allow the voting to be controlled by the insta-lynch mechanic as opposed to the deadline. We were even discussing a 96-hour deadline. It clearly didn't work as intended with the inactivity, and I'm not sure what BH's thoughts are on the length. That being said, I want to see this with a more active player-lineup first. ^ I don't think we took advantage of the cycles. If we'd used instant lynch to put a lot of pressure on a number of different people D1, get them to 3-4 votes and really turn the screws, I think we could have gained a TON of useful information. The 72-hour day is just...a red herring. Or whatever. Like, we read that and go "the day was 72 hours, so long!" But really, we had full control over how long days were, and the day was however long we said it was. I agree that the long cycles didn't help town in this game, but I don't think that's intrinsic to the length of the cycle, it's how we played things. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 07 2012 09:04 iamperfection wrote: guys guys guys Austin not mvp. Should have posted closer to deadline. Epic fail. Changed nk. Awwww, really? Deadline was right around when I leave work. If scum would have told me they'd let me survive, I'd have stayed a little later. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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