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On September 21 2012 22:33 Palmar wrote:
Spamming the game up and saying he's up for lynching half the people in the game is not indicative of marv being town.
I'll just be here on my wagon until anyone starts listening.
you're just not reading the thread at all, are you?
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no, Hiro is much scummier than BL.
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at least read my thoughts on his behaviour/meta and comment on it, Hapa.
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On September 21 2012 22:41 Palmar wrote:
Well then I blow it.
You see, by now you've spammed the thread hard enough that there is no chance that I'm ever going to actually get you lynched. I would actually much rather town lynched me than Ange, because at least then I've flipped, and people can start reading back to what I've said.
My best chance of making something useful happen in this game is to just make sure that for when I'm dead people KNOW that I have been trying to get you lynched all the way through the game. Sure, I'd much rather people just listened early, also I thought prplhz would pull himself out of the hole, not botch the mason claim and die.
Seriously, if anyone can read this and watch how you're somehow making me responsible for a terrible lynch that shouldn't have happened because I'm not loud enough.
what the fuck.
You are at least partly responsible because you had a strong townie read on prplhz that you absolutely refused to explain.
Now you are doing the same with Ange.
Why is Ange not a good lynch today? How can you explain her actions as townie around the lynch with iamp?
Answer.
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"I refuse to contribute". Well done Palmar.
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Mementoss, fill your boots bro. If you think Palmar played shittily Day 1 to survive and make these contributions Day 2 as town, then I don't know what to say.
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I had a 25 page filter in a mini once xD
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That says nothing at all, well done again. No reasoning for anything at any point in that post.
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No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin.
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On September 22 2012 00:38 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 00:29 marvellosity wrote:
No, he never ever gave reasoning for Hiro. The fact that you don't even fucking realise this is why I should keep pointing stuff like that out. In short, piss off austin. Yup, I was wrong. No reasoning on Hiro. But no, it's not a reason to keep pointing it out, and it's especially not a reason to keep sniping at him. If you've been trying to potty train a kid for 8 years and he's still just peeing himself at the dinner table, then at some point you give up on it. You strap a diaper and a helmet on him and send him out into the world to go count to purple. Anybody who thinks, right now, "Palmar is giving a hell of a lot of good reasoning behind his reads" is that kid. Anybody who isn't doesn't need to be informed that there's still a lack of involvement. Spend your energy elsewhere. I've seen you get tangled up with one person for an entire cycle, and it neuters your ability to do anything else. IF Palmar is scum, then it feels like that's what is going on, you're just being goaded into wasting all your effort on sniping/fuming/looking at Palmar.
Why say this? I'm voting for Ange, and I think I found another scum in HiroPro.
Why don't you discuss what I said about HiroPro instead of YOU pointlessly sniping at ME, hypocritically?
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On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much.
Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read.
Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games.
I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta.
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Nor is the reasoning for the change weak, austin. Not in the slightest.
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On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made?
Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid.
It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted.
Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this.
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On September 22 2012 01:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 01:16 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 01:10 austinmcc wrote:On September 22 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On September 22 2012 00:54 austinmcc wrote:However, I'll go look at hiropro. But...you haven't been as vocal on him as you think? Heres you on Hiro the last 20 hours or so... On September 21 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote:
Hiro I'm leaning town on now. In his massive post whenever it was he brought up a load of well thought out points, including analysis and quotes from other games, such as prplhz sheeping Palmar, and my tendency to believe the scummy things I do point towards me being town. I also liked his assessment on how you were appearing apologetic. Basically I'm leaning town on him because many of his thoughts have been unique this game and I like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time. The thing that stops me giving a firm read of town is that he's still more... detached from the thread than he might be.
On September 21 2012 05:38 marvellosity wrote:
he didn't 'explain' anything on his 2nd highest scumread, HiroPro. On September 21 2012 06:43 marvellosity wrote:On September 21 2012 06:42 Palmar wrote:
HiroPro.
Would you agree on lynching him?
I don't have the time to write up a case now, but because mostly of weak presence and strange things I've noticed about him. No, I don't want to lynch HiroPro for reasons I elaborated on shortly before the deadline. I do agree with you about the weak presence, though. Please write up a case as soon as you can this cycle as for obvious reasons it will affect my read on you. On September 21 2012 21:55 marvellosity wrote:I haven't got more to say on Ange right now, so I'd like to talk about HiroPro a bit. Earlier I've been leaning town because I was impressed with his diligence and his arguments based on going back and finding meta from previous games, which seemed 'townie for effort'. I'm pretty much reversing that read now. Actually Hiro as town is more categorised by laziness. His last scum game was a while ago (magic mini normal), but looking through his filter there I found this: + Show Spoiler +On May 27 2012 07:00 HiroPro wrote:Katina: Katina has hardly been posting in this game and when she does, she's maintained a singular focus on N_T and Matt. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion. EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.
Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?
Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play? I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised: ##Unvote
##Vote KatinaInactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance. I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear? On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience. On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.
If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that. I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc. Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"? ooh i forgot about that Its different because its not all i've done and because i know im town and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town. Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote. ##Vote Nove_TerraBased on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia. Show nested quote +
Look at this link where N_T was mafia. Notice that he spams here.... and what is he doing this game?
...
...
Spam!
JubJub 2: Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 14:04 Katina wrote:DoctorHelvetica is mafia This is because throughout the game he has been inconsistent in his posting.He doesn't seem to have a focus at all. DrH has done a massive amount of finger pointing. His posts consist of spamming and calling people retards. DrH is inconsistent and pointing fingers a lot. Take a look at this post: On March 12 2012 07:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller is trolling, mafia shouldn't be that scared of me to push me day 1 for no reason because I often back off my correct reads if I get distracted.
It's up to an individuals discretion whether or not they share who they are PMing with, policy lynching someone for not doing it is stupid. Also, town circles could be set up so that somebody can claim DT to someone they confirm and then use that person to broadcast their reads, or a tracker/watcher/etc. That can be useful. In that case the last thing you want is everyone saying who they are with.
Jackal58 is being a bit silly with what Wiggles and people like that are saying. His point is that scum know who town is and because of that they can cut down any circles that arise that they aren't directly involved in themselves. Especially it would be dangerous for someone to say "i'm pming with A B C and D" and then later come out and say "I'm PMing the DT and..." when say, B and C are dead or something. It's up to an individual to share their PM targets or not.
Gumshoe is posting a lot and very focused on town circles and such. For that reason, I'm voting for him. He has 2 pages of filter all completely disconnected from finding scum. The way you're probing Caller looks as though it would be helpful, but doesn't actually lead to anything. It's wishy washy, I feel like it's the kind of thing that scum would feel they can't ignore but don't want to commit to Caller if he's town. That'll satisfy me for now, it's pretty likely I'll come up with something better or that Gumshoe will just make himself look worse The last paragraph is important here. He says gumshow is suspicious and is going to vote for him. Yet 8 hours later he makes this post: On March 12 2012 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 12 2012 15:03 Bill Murray wrote:
@doctorh, what are the reasons you like from curu? I'm catching up, and I value your opinion. That is also why I am sort of sheeping you. You saw what I saw out of gumshoe, switched when that wagon wasn't going anywhere for some reason, and probably found a good one here.
I remember Caller's posting earlier on in the day being suspect. He came in like a bull, china flying everywhere, and the broken glass and debris are making it easy to see a case on him being valid.
tl;dr: catching up, asking questions, can see caller being scum Caller came in trolling then made his case when there was light pressure and it seems forced. I'm not totally sold on him at the moment because I feel like this is pretty much in line with the way he always acts but Curu does make a better case. I still think Caller is a better lynch than Jackal but I'm not confident enough to push it. Caller's case is based on, from what I can tell, misunderstanding of jackals post and then overstating the significance of it. Curu has a meta read that is at least accurate. Jaybrundage is one of those players who seems to me to be participating only in the surface discussion and making little effort to figure out what peoples motives are or hunt scum. His last few posts speak for themselves really. His confidence is a little bit out of place for a newer scum player though. I'm torn between Caller and jaybrundage right now. I'd be on prplhz in an instant if his logic wasn't equally terrible last time I played with him. I'm waiting for Pandain to come into play, he's awful so I'll know right away if he's scum or not. And now his focused has shifted to Caller and jaybrundage. And this is where his focused stayed for all of another 12 hours until he posts this: On March 13 2012 05:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
How does Caller thinking a scum would defend another scum make him scum? Maybe I'm not following your logic.
Jackal, roleclaiming was unnecessary. If there is no claim to the contrary I'll believe you. Dreamflower is a pretty specific role and I doubt there is more than one in this game as opposed to something like medic or veteran.
We need to reconsider the business surrounding prplhz. His play is poor but it's not particularly scummy and the attempt to pin someone as scum for making a similar case around the same timeframe is ridiculous and comes off to me as a hamfisted attempt by scum to start a bandwagon. The fact that it took makes me even more sure it's scum originated or backed.
Wiggles is the first to jump on it, doing nothing in the game besides talk about mechanics/town strategy (at great length) until this point I'm surprised his first attempt at hunting scum is so forced and illogical. The fact that prplhz made a case near the same time period is inconclusive, might perhaps implicate that he is town talking to curu or caller in PM but hardly mafiaesque.
Jitsu is the only one who voted for him and he's already been in the hotseat. This is the most alarming event in this thread to me. The Caller vs VE deal is really coming off to me like an ensuing tragedy of townie vs townie. And now he's dealing with Jackal and Wiggles and Jitsu. What is interesting is how quickly DrH jumps from one case to the next. He accuses and votes for gumshoe, yet never brings up the case again except where he says he's changing his vote. He moves his vote to Caller at one point before finalizing on Jitsu. Part of the problem here is that he never follows up on his reads. From here on out all he has are one liners and random posts, there is nothing more about his reads until he makes the following post: On March 14 2012 09:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Node is suspicious. I'm leaning toward Node or Caller on day 2. I know Caller is a ballsy player but he comes off as way too phony. He makes a fake case on me then ditches it for a bad case on Jackal then goes back to attacking me? He's just playing disruptively.
Node's vote switch to Sheth is a joke. Not only was Jackal not gonna get lynched but I refuse to believe by the way he was posting that he put so little thought into the game as to waste a vote on somebody completely random (the only one that actually had excusable inactivity) like Sheth. This post came near the end of night 1 as well. Suddenly there is no more attention on Jitsu. He moves away from it just like he did with gumshoe. He makes the occasional one liner about him being mafia, but never pushes his case ever again. And on Day 2 he makes this post On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little. and Jitsu isn't even on his mafia list. Furthermore he only lists Curu as scum because Curu was being a JubJub. DrH should know better than most that idiocy =/= Mafia. Yet he puts Curu on his mafia list, but removes him later on the account that Curu started making more sense. DrH is known to second guess himself more than anyone else. He even admits to it. The problem is is that he is not second guessing himself. He makes a case against someone, then immediately drops it and never returns to it. He simply has no focus. His agenda is in correspondence with a mafia. He accuses lots of people to insinuate the doubt. He tries to make everyone look bad so nobody is in the clear. Then when a mafia gets lynched he can immediately defend himself by saying he was onto them. Someone said that DrH pushed for the Kurumi lynch so therefore he is in the clear. However if you observe the day 2 votes you will notice that it's very likely the mafia team was on Kurumi the whole time. Bill Murray has gotten a town check, the only remaining players not on Kurumi are myself and EchelonTee. So he is not immediately in the clear because of the Kurumi lynch. In fact the majority of his posts about Kurumi entail things like this post: On March 16 2012 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
This thread is in fucking chaos and if this keeps up we will continue having no lynches for the rest of the game. Is everyone this terrible? I can't believe Kurumi is actually going to get away with straight up faking his role and doing nothing but trolling and trying to find the traitor all game.
I also can't believe that Curu making shit up to try to get Jackal killed and him and his scumbuddy prplhz trying to get a town suicide vig to shoot at night (benefits scum) ONLY seems odd to me. This is far and away the most embarrassing town performance I've ever seen.
You're an idiot if you don't vote for Kurumi. Caller is saying to vote for me because I flip flop and "only talk about the set-up". That's a bald faced lie, the majority of my posts are about scum or pressure and I'm WELL KNOWN to flip-flop and second guess myself constantly as town such as in AC where I changed my vote like ten times in the first day. In fact, if anything, the fact that I haven't changed my vote a million times makes me look bad. I don't even know what Katina is doing but she has no sense of meta and seems to be completely missing the obvious.
Caller is the dayvig, he confirmed it as far as I can tell so unless he somehow faked shooting Node, why would anyone vote for him? Scum have their powers in that KP cost thing it says so in the setup ...
So what Kurumi did is too scummy to be scummy? Congratulations, you've failed the most basic fucking trap of bad townie logic now never sign up for another game again you retarded jubjubs His posts about Kurumi are much like this one: "vote Kurumi or else you retard!" His only reason for voting Kurumi is that Kurumi scum slipped. No analysis or anything. Vote Kurumi or you're retarded. If this is what scumhunting is than Palmar should be the reigning champion. Even more proof of his inconsistency can be found if you click his filter and search for my name. Multiple times he lists me as mafia yet he has never hard pushed for me or giving reasons why I need to be lynched. In one post he says, "katina has called me out for stupid reasons but I'm not saying she looks like shit for "tunneling a townie" because my alignment isn't confirmed." This is interesting because when I first accused him he agreed with the arguments that I was making. He even acknowledged that he was jumping all over the place on his reads. As I said before, he's not second guessing himself. He is mafia and is casting doubt upon all the players. He has done a fabulous job of accusing everyone so when someone flips mafia he can say that he was suspicious of said person. Even if he was on Caller and Kurumi, he hasn't done anything recently besides cast more doubt on the remaining players. He has pushed for Jay to get lynched, but the majority of his accusations can be summarized with "Jay is retarded, let's kill him". This leads into the obvious fact that DrH is acting nothing like he does when he is town. This is evident from his past games. Look at one of his posts from Storm Mafia: On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched.
I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him.
Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for.
I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself.
This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. Notice how he is very direct in explaining his actions about where his vote and suspicion lies. There isn't a single post he's made in this game that can be mirrored with a typical post from that game. He hasn't done any explaining this game. He only focuses on the present and fails to address his past behavior. And the few times people have brought up this fact his response has been "well I always second guess myself trolol" Put simply, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. It's also interesting to note how calm and collected he has been in the past when he is town. The above post is typical in showing is behavior when analyzing and addressing issues. Of course we know him to have a temper from time to time, as we all do whenever we are in a game with VE. However this game he has done nothing but call people retarded over and over again. This attitude is a bit reminiscent of wherebugsgo when he is mafia. I can understand being frustrated with the game (considering I have Jay riding my ass constantly), but the level of his insults coming from DrH is not only out of character, but completely unnatural. I would also like to mention that this game DrH has an absurd amount of one liners and small posts. A quick glance through Storm Mafia and Arkham City show that his posting length this game is also not in sync with his normal town play. When DrH is town, he is not afraid to write paragraphs upon paragraphs detailing his thoughts. This game we have one liners about how small our IQ is.
SummaryDrH has been playing completely out of character from his typical town play. He hasn't been focused, anormous finger pointing, one liners and insults. His posts have been inconsistent and bringing confusion into the thread. He has not been responsible this game and he needs to be held accountable for it. DrH is mafia
##Vote DoctorHelvetica In this game, when going after N_T Katina displays a very odd use of meta - very different from the way she used in the past (LII: Jubjub Mafia where Katina fingers DocH based on meta with a clear difference between his town and mafia styles (when DocH is town his posting is much longer and doesn't attack other people)). Compare that to this game, where Katina uses meta against Nova_Terra (Nova_Terra is scum because he spams as mafia. Yet he does this both as town and mafia...) That's not a logical argument at all. Also everyone should look at the cases that Katina makes in that game and compare that to this game; there's a clear level of depth that's missing from anything she has posted here. This Game: Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 02:34 Katina wrote:
Okay first of all, I'm really tired of people (WBG) assuming I'm mafia because of my Meta I have said myself I have been busy. Stuff kept coming up this week, that's what happens when you have a "Life". I am sorry I couldn't be more active.
Secondly the two people I have been gunning for (N_T and Mattchew) are doing nothing but constantly bashing me. N_T is so focused on getting me lynched he is completely distracting himself from the forum. Mattchew is butt hurt because I got him to crack and stop using his quotes.
Third, I realize that Zealos claimed. I was fine lynching him as I stated in one of my posts before that. So me voting for someone I thought was scummy is considered Mafia? I love the logic behind that.
I apologize for not spewing out random votes and cluttering up the thread like a lot of you do. Everyone is so focused on me for stupid reasons when there are so many scummier people. Liar Game: Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 07:26 Katina wrote:On May 16 2012 03:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 16 2012 00:10 Katina wrote:On May 15 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Katina are you calling Meapak scum? Or misguided? How about prplhz? Not really. His reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't actually think he's mafia but then again I have no idea who could be on Palmar's team other than Wiggles. Katina I'm sick of you half assing this game. Put in some goddamn effort and give us some ACTUAL reasons. I don't know, maybe write an analysis, maybe have more of a thread presence, maybe PM people and at least pretend like you're interested. After the cephiro flip I blew up all my reads and started over again and let me say this katina, it's foolishness's insistence that you're town which is preventing me right now from putting you in the majority and lynching you this cycle. Play the game. I have been sir. I do not mean to overstep your pride here. Let me say again that your reasons for thinking Palmar is innocent are silly. I don't say this in an accusatory way; it's the truth. I don't think you are mafia, but as I said I don't know who the last member on Palmar's team is (I think Wiggles is one of them). You said that Palmar is innocent because he has had the same reads as you from the start. That does not indicate anything about alignment. Palmar has wanted to kill sandroba and Cephiro (these are the two you listed). But everyone wants to kill those two. Also it makes the most sense that sandroba is the last member of BC's team. So Palmar isn't bussing one of his teammates. The most incriminating piece of evidence is that Palmar was virtually derping when syllogism was alive. That's cause syllogism was hard core pushing his innocence especially in PMs. I know Foolishness and wherebugsgo were both suspicious of Palmar but syllogism made it hard for them to push that read. That and there were more important targets at the time. If you look through Palmar's post history you will see he was most active day 1 and then in the previous days since syllogism's death. Palmar was using syllogism as an excuse to not do anything. With syllogism constantly pushing his innocence he did not have to try at all, either in the thread or PM. He has only stepped up his posting since syllogism died, whether he's stepped up in PM land or not I don't know. Even if you want to start pointing guns at me, you still need to explain why Palmar deserves a free pass. Cause this isn't about me, it's about Palmar. And like I said at least one person out of you, me, and Palmar has to be mafia. Unless you're going to claim mafia I'm not stopping until Palmar is dead. When attacked in previous games (for example Liar Game) Katina typically brings forth new thoughts and reads (She's very eager to elaborate her reads on Palmar and address the issues that other people bring up). In this game though, Katina just says that she was busy and repeats the same arguments that she's been giving the entire game without analyzing anything new. With such a big difference between her town play and her play this game and a general lack of good posting and reads, I think Katina is almost definitely scum. A fairly long well thought through post, making valid points based on meta across several games and applying them to the current game. Except it's scum Hiro making this post. Looking through his town games, they are more categorised by shorter posts, where ultimately Hiro is more involved in what's going on than he is here. I believe HiroPro is scum Seriously, that's your filter. If you want to discuss what you said about HiroPro, fine. But what you said was "leaning town" --> "dont' want to lynch him, but please write up a case because I agree on the weak presence" (to Palmar) --> "I believe HiroPro is scum" I will respond to the actual last post on HiroPro, I read it but I'll work through my own thoughts now. Just...look at that progression. You haven't been hammering on HiroPro. Your read went from townie to townie but I agree on weak presence to scum. And your entire Hiro argument SEEMS to be "I thought hiro was town because he was active, now I think he's lazy town and must be scum because he's active." Can you give more robust thoughts on Hiro, because I'll discuss what you've said but it ain't much. Yes, I meant specifically the last post. I don't know what else to say because I explained in that post why I shifted my reasoning. I had believed the effort he went to to search through previous games to make good meta arguments meant he was making good effort, which tends towards a townie read. Effectively, my read previously had been taking this game in isolation, and earlier I went back and went back and looked through a bunch of Hiro's games. That's why I posted that post from Mini Magic, and commented on his other town games. I'm just rehashing in longer version what I said in that post there. There aren't really that many 'robust' thoughts to give other than what I said. I said ealrier, as you mention that he seemed disconnected/weak presence, and going back through his games, it contradicts his meta. I guess...when I read that post, what I get is you saying - I was leaning Hiro because of "diligence" and "his arguments based on going back and finding meta" --> Hiro for effort
- I am now reversing that read, because Hiro is lazy and Hiro makes longer posts concerning meta
- I will now link one long post in which Hiro discussed Katina and her meta
- That post came from Hiro
- Looking at other games, Hiro posts short posts and is "more involved" than he is here
I dislike that post and I almost just throw it out. You looked at Hiro's past games. You gave us ONE quote from ONE game, and a blanket statement that Hiro in other games posts shorter and is more involved. Which is fine, but just understand that there's not really too much there other than some assertions about Hiro's meta that are almost certainly true, but based on size of posts. One reason you found Hiro townie eariler was his "well thought out points" and that his "thoughts have been unique this game and [you] like the way he thinks and agree with it much of the time." Does that still hold true? Does his meta trump that? I'd be more convinced by what's happening in game than a meta argument based on short/long posts and involvement. I don't see anything in that post about whether scum Hiro's points are well thought out, or about how you agree with scum Hiro's points but not town Hiro's points. Do you really want to lynch Hiro based on being disconnected and posting long posts? I know you are voting Ange, but are you scummy enough on Hiro because of the meta read that you have that you want to lynch him, despite liking the way he's thought and the points he's made? Frankly, yes. His only scum game that wasn't his newbie game was that Magic Mini game. That was the only game of the others that I looked at that he used meta examples from across various games in a post of his. Actually in the post I quoted, he was bussing Katina (who, in that game, I thought correctly was scum on meta) and his points were all valid. It's not that I disagree with townie Hiro points, but they are rarely as... carefully constructed as his posts here were. It reminds me of Bureaucracy a bit, where slOosh made several outwardly excellent posts, but he was 'disconnected' from the thread. I could dig up my post where I said that if you really wanted. Other than that there's not a lot to do other than say "why don't you have a look at the games for yourself?". HiroPro is typically more involved in the thread as town, but it's pretty hard just to pull random snippets from other games that show this. Okay, that's fine. Didn't realize he'd only been scum once. No worries on the bureaucracy comparison. If that's all that can be said about him, though, then it's difficult for us to discuss your read on him. The most we could do is get to the same point, "Geez, his activity and the size of his posts doesn't look the same as townHiro." I'd rather have evidence from inside this game to lynch on than something as fuzzy as that. Coming full circle though...you should still knock it off with Palmar. I've read your stuff. There's just nothing we can really DO with HiroPro though based on your post, because while it may look wrong it's not lynchably wrong (at least for me). If there's not a robust history, then looking through his meta, especially for things like post size and involvement, doesn't get us too much compared to someone that DOES have a decent number of games of both alignments. I'll give Hiro's conduct THIS game some more attention later this cycle.
My point is that his conduct this game is disconnected from the thread, which can be and often is a scummy characteristic on its own. The fact that it directly contradicts his townie meta is extra and confirmation.
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On September 22 2012 02:10 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv
I've been reading through Hiro's filters, and I'm not quite ready to peg him has scum. I agree that I haven't seen him make such a comprehensive post in his townie meta, but that's not necessarily scummy to me. Could very well be a meta-deviation. His silence so far has been telling, and I'm starting to lean scum on him.
Also, what is your exact read on Palmar right now? I'm having trouble determining whether you actually think he's scum or if you're just fighting with him 'cause you're pissed at him or something.
Scum. I was prepared to believe Palmar was just being... Palmar going into today, and was willing to hear out his contributions and go from there.
Instead it's clear from the Palmar we are dealing with that he doesn't give a crap about the game at all. He remains unwilling to share anything; he just doesn't care.
He's had the opportunity to come in to the thread and talk about why Ange might be town, or why Hiro is scum, and he's failed dismally on both counts. He said something along the lines of "there's still plenty of time" and that's exceptionally weak.
If Palmar genuinely believed town was going in the wrong direction with the Ange lynch, he should be doing what he can to stop it now, not 'later'. He said he hoped prplhz would be able to extricate himself from the mess he was in by himself. That may be so, but if he had actual insight as to why prplhz was town, why wasn't he sharing it?
In short, I currently see no evidence that Palmar cares for town in any way whatsoever, and he is scum.
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On September 22 2012 02:39 Hapahauli wrote:
So presumably you think Ange and Palmar are scum, yes?
If so, how does Hiro make sense as scum? It really doesn't.
Let's look from hypothetical "scum-Palmar's" perspective:
1) Ange, his "scumbuddy" slipped
2) Palmar's second "scumbuddy," Hiro, was not under much suspicion from anyone but Palmar
3) ...then Palmar proceeds to call a shot on Hiro and mention him explicitly as his top scumread?
There's no way this is true. Something's wrong in this equation.
Palmar is known for his scum strat to be "bus all his team-mates".
Hiro was under suspicion from Palmar, but with no weight. If Palmar refuses to give reasoning for Hiro being scum, then this isn't valid suspicion, it isn't even pressure. No-one is going to pay any attention to Palmar saying Hiro is scum if Palmar doesn't elaborate upon it.
The very fact that Palmar has been completely unwilling to elaborate on HiroPro since he mentioned him as a scumread in practically his first post of the game invalidates your argument in my opinion.
Gonna exercise now but I'd be very happy to discuss this when I get back.
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I think you have a pretty unsophisticated view of how scumteams might interact, frankly.
Anyway, back in a couple of hours.
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On September 22 2012 04:00 Mementoss wrote:
@Hapa/Marv
What would scum motivation be for Palmar giving his town read on me and explaining it (to an extent) in day 1/night 1. I was probably the 3rd most likely to be lynched day 1, and I was probably a major point of discussion day 2 as a lynch possibility, mainly through the thoughts of Austinmcc and Hapa (Possibly ange).
why the screw not? Go look at Palmar's filter in Bureaucracy, he's very forthcoming with townreads.
I initially led a lynch but then abandoned it and protected my 'townread' Bluelightz in Normal Mini Mafia 3, when I had the opportunity to lynch him, and then leave Palmar's choice of lynch to the next day, and I basically protected BL for the whole game after. Why not?
3rd most likely to be lynched? Who the fuck cares. When it actually matters (prplhz/Ange) Palmar has stayed completely unforthcoming in the explanation for his reads.
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On September 22 2012 04:27 Hapahauli wrote:
The thing with Palmar is that he's been really forthcoming with town-reads all game. He had me, you (mementoss), Blazinghand, and prplhz read as town before any flips. He also has a town-read on iamperfection that I very much agree with.
Now I don't see how this makes sense from a scum-objective standpoint. If he just believed that prplzh was town near the gallows deadline, I'd find that scummy. But he's not. He's going out of his way to establish townie reads (and rather accurately so far). His only confirmed mistake thusfar is mkfuba, and that's something everyone got wrong.
Is it possible that this is scum motivated? Yah sure, I mean scum have alignments of every player. But him going out of his way to establish multiple players as town isn't what I'd expect scum to do. Plus, if he and Ange were scum, from what marv is saying, he'd pretty much auto-bus her, especially after including her in a scumlist yesterday.
I really want to hear what he has to say about Ange.
yeah, you're just falling into the trap of being confused by his games. Pretty annoying to watch actually. I want Palmar dead more than I want Ange dead right now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar
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EPT
