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@ jacob yeah I sheeped because I didn't see anyone else that people would agree on. There was no other bandwagon that would work. And yeah I could have voted for someone else but that vote would have done nothing but given me "i told ya so" rights after the fact.
Also how the f does this clear xatalos? Just because kville said xatalos is town does not make it so. I really fail to see your reasoning with that. Kville is not some expert analyst. He's a borderline troll who voted for himself d1. His playstyle is distinctly antitown. I would not want to be in another game that he is in.
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On September 07 2012 07:34 drazak wrote: No, I figured there was no need to unvote based on the fact that THE MOD DIDN'T COUNT MY VOTE. There's enough people to lynch you anyway, kville.
So Kush, why'd you scumslip? Why did you feel so threatened by me?
All 4 of those posts had to do with me, either your defense or accusations against me, and I didn't post /at all/ during those 4 posts. Come on now, you'll have to do better than that as a defense.
I explained this before and now I will explain again... 2 of those posts were in defense of your attacks. Every post you make attacking me I will make a defense post. You made 2 attack posts so I made 2 defense posts. 1 of the posts was accusing you, not defense. 1 post had nothing to do with you.
and I didn't post /at all/ during those 4 posts. Ok fact checking time!! Pay attention to the times. Your first accusation:
On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba
Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn.
Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you?
We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta
Then I post this which has nothing to do with you:
On September 05 2012 13:02 kushm4sta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thrawn was like town leader and now he is gone. We need to do is come up with a plan for day 2 so we can as a town stay focused. We do NOT want to all be accusing different people. That is what mafia wants. We do not want to be discussing things that do not contribute to the scum hunt. Anyone have an idea for a day 2 town plan to help us?
In the next post I will discuss this recent drazak vote for me.
Then I post this in defense of your attack:
On September 05 2012 13:25 kushm4sta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba
Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn.
Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you?
We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta I pushed the cubu vote because 1)he was a bad poster/lurker and it worked as a policy lynch if nothing else 2)how he turned revealed a lot about thrawn, who i assumed medic or jb would save because he was the obvious choice in my mind I thought it was very fishy that thrawn tried to redirect twice, and so I got very excited with the prospect of identifying two mafia in the first day. Also at the time I thought, as did thrawn, that kville was going to be replaced. So that's why I called him the worst townie. Now it's clear that honor belongs to kville. Also jacob I don't get how this is a good argument? It's reasoning is only one sentence: Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. I think he means that then thrawn would be mafia, but right now that sentence, which is his ONLY argumentation, makes no sense. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I didn't think anyone else seemed more scumlike than he did. Although I did know that was a big chance of him not being scum. See, drazzy darling, when there are a ton of lurkers/terrible townies in the game like yourself, it makes it pretty fucking hard to win as town. And my last defense of myself is to invoke the holy name of the late thrawn, who, on the night of his untimely death, proclaimed me as his biggest town read. Read his defense of me because I'm sure it's better than anything I could do. REST IN PEACE THRAWN TT Not to OMGUS, but this actually makes drazak seem quite suspicious to me. Mostly because I am the most active poster now that thrawn is gone. Maybe I'm biased about the matter but what do other people think? I will look through his filter more tomorrow.
Then YOU post again, attacking me more. This is the post you seem to be forgetting about. It is in between those 4 posts you mention.
On September 05 2012 13:38 drazak wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, you weren't actually scum hunting, why weren't you scum hunting? Couldn't figure out who to lynch and actually make a good case for because you're mafia? Just because thrawn called you town doesn't make you town.
For the record, town doesn't need a leader, a leader can hurt a town more than help, if the leader is mafia, we're all fucked. Saying that you're the most active doesn't actually make you town. We agreed that the only deciding factor is that being too lurker-ish is scummy. Active does not equate to town.
Accusing me because I'm accusing you is a very bad idea, that's like, the #1 worse scum defense. So tell me, with logical terms, good reasons, and actual evidence, who your best two scum reads are?
Then I post a defense of your second attack. I do this only because stutters wants me to. Notice it is AFTER your second attacking post.
On September 06 2012 00:36 kushm4sta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +A girl told me she likes my glasses.. that means she wants to fuck me right? ANYWAY @drazakOn September 05 2012 13:38 drazak wrote:+ Show Spoiler + So, you weren't actually scum hunting, why weren't you scum hunting? Couldn't figure out who to lynch and actually make a good case for because you're mafia? Just because thrawn called you town doesn't make you town.
For the record, town doesn't need a leader, a leader can hurt a town more than help, if the leader is mafia, we're all fucked. Saying that you're the most active doesn't actually make you town. We agreed that the only deciding factor is that being too lurker-ish is scummy. Active does not equate to town.
Accusing me because I'm accusing you is a very bad idea, that's like, the #1 worse scum defense. So tell me, with logical terms, good reasons, and actual evidence, who your best two scum reads are?
I was scumhunting, I just didn't have a great idea of who was scum day 1, as no one did. I thought cubu looked more like mafia than anyone else. Scumhunting doesn't' mean figuring out 100% who is mafia, that is impossible. Thrawn calling me town doesn't make me town--this is true. But thrawn is a confirmed innocent so at least we know that all his motivations were pro town and his beliefs genuine. Drazak I agree the town doesn't need a leader, but I think we do need to be focused. And what I mean by that is we should not all be analyzing different people. That is what mafia wants because it makes it easy for mafia to hide amidst that confusion and not to take a stance on people he doesn't want to take a stance on. You ask me who my best scum reads are atm. I will comply. As of now it's xatalos, for reasons already posted. I still want to analyze your filter more, drazak, but I will say that accusing me out of the blue, since for many I am a strong town read, was not really a safe move, and that gives you town points...minor town points though, because you may have thought that cubu flipping green justified your suspicion. Other people I am suspicious of is stutters, since he has been absent for quite a while now.. I really want to see what he is going to post today before I make a judgement on him. I will post more substantially later. PS I really don't want to lynch kville in light of his most recent post and just thinking about it more. He deserves the lynch maybe because his play was just really bad and anti town but I don't want to waste it on him. Also I think it is mostly a waste of time to discuss him, since there is not much to talk about or analyze in his posts
Even you must admit that your statement is false. I don't think you lied on purpose though, because it can be proven wrong so easily.
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@drazak
On September 07 2012 07:34 drazak wrote: So Kush, why'd you scumslip? Because I'm not scum maybe.
Now I have a question for you drazak. It's serious so please answer. Not omgusing, I really want you to answer this.
Are you really bad at this game or are you mafia?
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drazaks main argument against me is just wrong. his facts are false. his case is sloppy. unless someone else presents a better case, I think we should not focus on if drazs accusations are correct, but if they make h mafia. on the one hand they are reckless, which is a trait of town. On the other hand they are senseless, devoid of content, and appear to serve no other purpose than to sow confusion and start a flame war. Look at when it starts, right as I accuse xatalos. sorry for formatting this was written on my phone.
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Mafia Drazak Xatalos
On the Fence Killingtime Stutters
Town Sonic Jacob Kreb Iamcasey
Safest person to accuse if he is town: stutters, iamcasey (because they are pretty big lurkers)
i know I said I don't like lists, but I think a list without explanations is a good idea right now so we can see where everyone's suspicions lie.
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On September 07 2012 21:20 Kreb wrote: Same to kush: I'd like to see an explanation of your townread on imcasey.
Ask and you shall receive: He is a null read to me bordering on town. 1Town get bored, mafia do not. I think it is less likely for mafia to quit the game like WeeTee did. 2WeeTee's posts fit his meta, which doesn't prove him town, but does clear his bad posting style of suspicion. 3Iamcasey really does seem like inexperienced town trying his best. Are there people who seem more town than him? yes Are there who seem more scum than him? Definitely yes.
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Addendum to defense of weetee/iamcasey: If WeeTee really didn't have that much time and he was mafia, he could have easily posted very little and hid amongst our game's many lurkers.
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On September 07 2012 23:01 JacobStrangelove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Now I would also like to point out this. On September 07 2012 15:09 KillingTime wrote: ... well that is annoying. I agree that the reason that we ended up with a Xatalos v Kville situation was because we were all accusing each other. I said at the start of the day I really hoped that we could come up with a better lynch target.. but we did not. Scum have succeeded in thoroughly bamboozling me I have to say. I will look into the thread this evening and I'll be happy to answer questions from those who have suspicions of me. After the flip Kush and I immediately analyse it talk about it start making reads etc... Kililng comes in and makes a “annoyed post” and also says he is bamboozled and says he is happy to answer questions about himself. He makes no mention of scum hunting. Why? Because he doesn’t need to hunt scum, he is scum. This is another fluff post saying he is confused. Surely he would have an opinion on what happened. He says so much however his major posts are lists and he is very non committal. Surely someone else sees this! While my arguments up until this points haven’t been the clearest if you think I am town why do you think I hardly left Killings side. Intuition has to could for something and it has. He was not able to answer why he was so non committal his only reply was On September 07 2012 00:01 KillingTime wrote: First, if you feel I have been non-committal or weak in my play then I can only apologise and say this is my first game and I am definitely learning as I go. That is not an excuse, but it is the most likely explanation for "weak" town play on my part. I think Kreb, Drazak & Sonic are town, everyone else I am currently suspicious of.
This is not really a reply, for me it is an excuse that anybody could use. Also his case on stutters is due to kush/xatalos pushing the conversation away from him. His one major non listed case was based on association. On September 06 2012 17:02 KillingTime wrote: Ok, having re-read through a bunch of filters today I think we should lynch Stutters695 - Yes his posting/lurking has been/is reason enough to lynch him. But, reading back through filters there has been way to much redirection of discussion away from him as a good lynch - particularly from kush. ... Now, this does not mean that both Kush & Xatalos are mafia if stutters flips - but that is WAY too much subtle redirecting of a target for me. Stutters is as scummy as anyone at this point, if he flips we will have some strong targets for d3. If we lynch him and he is not mafia, town is in a bad spot - but we are in a bad spot regardless of who we lynch if they flip and are not mafia (kreb has convinced me of this with his case against kville that there is no point not going for lurkers.).
I would also like to point out that kush seems to be following his meta as well. Admittedly meta talk in a newbie game is a little hard but you would think rolling scum would mess with how they would act. Also if you notice stutters filter and replies I will tell you why he is likely town. He did have a slow start day one. Considering drazak kville weetee cubu all had slow day one starts two who are confirmed town and one who I pointed out seems confirmed town to me this is no reason for a scum read. What you should look at is the quality and logical reasoning in his filter. You should read the whole post but in particular. On September 06 2012 18:28 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 17:02 KillingTime wrote: I think kville is not a terrible lynch. But Stutters is better and more scummy, and throws alot of suspicions on others who seem to have been redirecting a/the serious Stutters wagon so far...
Please explain what part of my play has been more scummy than someone who has been trolling the thread and not contributed anything? ##FoS Killing TimeI need to go through his filter but this isn't the first time he hasn't taken a stance on issues while posting "reads" that don't actually commit longterm. While kville did show up as town in the lynch he was an easy lynch, scum would want to lynch the slightly harder targets so they have a free win by the time they get to end game. For example if we lynched stutters it would be easy to convince town to lynch kville. If anything if we spent another day with him in the game we would have been frustrated into lynching him. Also he returns fire on killing time and is way more active engaged asking questions giving responces. He questions kush and drazak on the issues and responds on a manner I can only call logical. His filter isn’t filled with fluff so I suggest you read it for yourself as everything he says comes across in a pro town questioning way. Now I am going to transition to drazak. His vote on kush only caused confusion and was purely a slug fest with no real reasoning behind it. After being “caught out” as such by kville and stutters plus the kush argument he backs out and doesn’t comment. He hardly provides good reasons for his mistakes, Also he has a bad habit of calling kville useless. However enough of that I will provide posts and reasons. On September 06 2012 18:03 drazak wrote: My accusation wasn't out of nowhere, I made a read based on what happened, I reasoned, carefully. I saw that Kush wasn't scumhunting day 1. If you're not scumhunting, you're not furthering town, if you're not furthering town... you're mafia. I then saw kush slipped by overreacting to me. Feel free to poke holes in my actual reasoning instead of calling me scum for making a reasoned accusation. Kush wasn’t scum hunting day one? I’m a freaking unicycling unicorn. First his Kush isn’t scum hunting read is based on this. On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba
Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn.
Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you?
We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta But then his day one post was this On September 03 2012 21:24 drazak wrote: My best read is cubu. He's tried to throw suspiscion, he stopped posting when he had nobody to lay thin accusations on. Cubu has posted only with low content, low value posts, he hasn't had any real reads other than discussing statistics and how afk I was. I think Cubu isn't a great D1 lynch though, which is why he doesn't currently have my vote, if he continues to have such low content posts tomorrow, he will certainly have my vote. Cubu is someone we can try to analyze tomorrow and figure out if he really is mafia, we can't analyze kville, and if we wait to lynch kville it's not going to get better, we don't even have a baseline for him.
To that point, I'm someone you can analyze D2, you have several posts by me, with fairly decent content. Even if kville isn't mafia, he isn't helping anyone. In addition, I felt that going for cubu would just be bandwagoning at this point, which as town doesn't help me at all, espescially considering I do have my own unique thoughts, which I have shared with everyone. The whole “even if kville isn’t mafia he isn’t helping anyone” isn’t this the same thing? They are both talking about lynching the worst townie however drazak covers himself better (something a scum would do over a town) refering to the bandwagon and trying to convince people he is town by pointing out he is town not just assuming everyone knows he is town. “which as town doesn't help me at all” This would be obvious if he was town. Anyway these are my thoughts on Drazak. Because of the lengh of this post I will save Krebs analises for my next post probably (if I find anything) My intuitive thoughts are “he has seemed town but he is saying some strange stuff that I need to look into.”
Ok this is the section of jacob's recent post that accusing killing and drazak. Even though jacob's posts have been pretty WTF at times I suggest everyone read close. I agree with his argument against killing a lot and I strongly suspect killingtime right now.
This quote from killing especially stuck out to me when I first read it, and the more I think about it, the more scumlike it seems:
Scum have succeeded in thoroughly bamboozling me I have to say. He's gloating.
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I'm definitely feeling a killingtime, drazak, xatalos scumteam right now.
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I read stutters filter a bunch of times and honestly it does not read like scum to me. His posts are never that wishy washy. He has not always chosen the safe targets. The only reason I see for suspecting him is how he created confusion d2 and promoted the kush/drazak feud, but it's not enough for me.
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haha ok so xatalos, stutters, and killing all post 10 minutes within each other hmmm..
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Now we learn if we actually have a medic maybe....
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what the actual fuck... how is that possible
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Ok so according to kreb's logic post, either one of the mafia feuds was fake, or jacob or sonic or me are mafia. 4 town 3 mafia. That means there are a lot of mafia among us -.-
If i had to guess at this point I would say xatalos, stutters and killingtime, and the fued between stutters and killing was manufactured. Also I think I might have to read sonic's poster closer. Everyone always just assumed he was town because his posts are consistently good though. But maybe that consistency come from a scumlike carefulness. We can still win but if we lynch wrong 1 day we lose. I'm pretty sure that's how it worked out. Also I assume we have a vig and they killed drazak. No idea why they didn't kill a lurker n1 though...
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This weekend I'm working 8 am to 8 pm saturday and sunday. So unfortunately I'm going to be lurking pretty hard. However I think I will get to check my phone often so I will be able to write shitty posts on my phone.
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@jacob I know who the vig is lol... I know exactly who it is.
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Right now I'm liking a stutters, xatalos, killingtime scumteam. Going to try to look into this more hopefully at work tomorrow.
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Will a vigi shot still go through if he's killed that night by mafia?
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On September 08 2012 14:35 KillingTime wrote: Kush has so far pushed Drazak, Kreb & Cubu - &FOS's xatalos. Leaving aside Xatalos, that is a 100% miss rate so far and now you are pushing me because my reads are too safe and non-committal. Welp, that is pretty funny. I have no idea why town should trust anything you say at this point.
Also - I have no idea why you are asking that question because the vig has only one shot?
I agree.with sonic that we should roelclaim at this point - we need all the info we can get because if we mislynch again we lose I think this is a very disingenuous accusal. I pushed kreb?? For about 5 seconds early in the game d1 to get him to contribute more. And never again. I do admit to pushing cubu but why would mafia push that hard so unnecessarily d1? Yeah I suspected Drazak, but so did many other town. Plus he accused me which got me pissed at him... I'm sorry for that. And yes I FOS xatalos and I still do.
Guaranteed Town Iamcasey Jacob
Not sure Sonic Stutters Xatalos
Scum Killing
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